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[–]a_fucking_lemur 5585 points5586 points  (56 children)

<image>

[–]Ayetto 60 points61 points  (0 children)

GG, you killed me, of laugh... xd

[–]stoicxhunter 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Lmao perfect

[–]a_fucking_lemur 8 points9 points  (0 children)

im glad i decided to make a meme raction image folder

[–]kilowatt_xxl 3 points4 points  (1 child)

So weird how the top comment of almost every Reddit post just reads my mind or copies the exact expression on my face after seeing the post.

[–]flappers87Ryzen 7 7700x, RTX 4070ti, 32GB RAM 2744 points2745 points  (333 children)

What game is this? Is this the new Forza game?

[–]Athebotv2Laptop 1389 points1390 points  (279 children)

It is :(

[–]flappers87Ryzen 7 7700x, RTX 4070ti, 32GB RAM 1146 points1147 points  (269 children)

Damn, well I was going to try this out after I was done with my current backlog... I guess not then.

I'm not having a locked frame rate because they don't the hardware on console to keep up with me.

Such an absolutely dumb thing to add in the game. Frame rate gives absolutely no competitive advantage in a driving game. Absolutely none at all.

We're getting punished because the console hardware is behind the times? It's like we've gone back a previous generation when we were getting shit ports that didn't take advantage of our hardware.

[–]credsiecoven 647 points648 points  (169 children)

In GTA Online, a higher FPS actually makes you have a higher top speed. I don't know enough about coding to explain it, but it may be the same in Forza and other racing games.

[–]Nickthenukeri7 11800 H | 2x16GB 3200 | RTX 3070 884 points885 points  (107 children)

You'd think a specialised racing game in a decently long-running racing game franchise would have a better driving mechanic than an open-world third person shooter that's now over a decade old.

[–]Disregardskarma 144 points145 points  (9 children)

The F1 games had a semi big scandal last year because lower frame rates were faster

[–]SamDuymelinck 93 points94 points  (8 children)

Lower framerate didn't actually make you faster. It only changed how your car would respond to hitting kerbs, meaning you could take some corners slightly tighter on the apex or slightly wider on corner entry or exit

[–]Disregardskarma 39 points40 points  (2 children)

All the top Esports drivers had to go to 60 instead of 120 and those who realized it sooner had a big advantage. It’s basically the same with forza, only the game is enforcing the parity

[–]CozmoXVILaptop i3-4030u, 8gb DDR3, 256 SSD (Lenovo G50-70) 175 points176 points  (84 children)

Framerate affects every game ever made. It doesn't have to do with it being a racing game or a modern one, if you have a higher framerate in, say, Sekiro, you have a wider input window; when Sekiro is in 30fps, the input delay increases by 0.017 seconds maximum. It's not a big deal and it's 100% negligible, but it most likely varies between games.

[–]badgerAteMyHomework 339 points340 points  (45 children)

Good design practice for quite a while now has been to separate graphics and game logic to update asynchronously of each other.

[–]mitchMurdra 68 points69 points  (1 child)

Exactly what I’m thinking every time I see these threads like holy shit yet another release where they fucked up the game tick logic with what should have been an independent rendering thread.

[–]Matren2 172 points173 points  (14 children)

[Todd Howard disliked that]

[–]Seconds_ 48 points49 points  (11 children)

He's very fond of using the Creation Engine. Has been for 26 years now

[–]RandomZombieStory 15 points16 points  (10 children)

It's worked out pretty well for him.

[–]HoblinGob 22 points23 points  (16 children)

During all my time studying computer science and my professional career this far I have learned that almost every single time that I wonder why something doesnt follow what I perceive to be best practices - or KNOW to be best practices - I eventually learned that I just didnt have all the information.

Remember: Its not that youre the smart guy and everyone else is dumb as hell. Most likely youre average and just dont understand why your academic idyll doesnt apply.

[–]MerchU1F41C 12 points13 points  (7 children)

I'm not sure what your point is here, or if you just wanted to try to be contrarian, but the person you're responding to is correct, recent games/engines largely try to not link game and graphics logic as a good design practice, so it's incorrect to state that framerate will affect all games.

[–]dfddfsaadaafdssa 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Not the person you responded to but I think they were just speaking in generalities about something that happens in a lot of different industries. A lot of consultants and people in their first corporate job say "this problem can be solved with <insert standard>" only to quickly get shut down because that way has usually been tried before and didn't work due to some weird unforeseen dependency or circular logic that you only find when you start getting into the weeds.

[–]IceGamingYT 46 points47 points  (24 children)

In the original Quake III Arena on PC, there was a map, Q3DM13: Lost World, that had a ledge with the mega health that you could only jump up to if you were getting 120fps. Anything below 120fps and you'd have to take the long way round. It was a massive advantage.

[–]MrJake2137 27 points28 points  (19 children)

But that's just a bad game design

[–]IceGamingYT 27 points28 points  (17 children)

It wasn't a design feature, it was an accidental bug. You weren't ever meant to be able to jump up to the ledge. ppl just discovered it.

[–]ilikeracing23 24 points25 points  (0 children)

IIRC, there was an issue in F1 2022 where having lower framerate was an advantage because the car wouldn't bounce off kerbs as much and you'd gain time around a lap.

[–]Nirast25R5 3600 | RX 6750XT | 32 GB | 3440x1440 17 points18 points  (0 children)

[–]netolokao 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It's not unheard of with Forza Horizon 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6doHF3nP94

[–]RobertNAdams 30 points31 points  (13 children)

It's because they tie framerate to time. Higher framerate = game moves faster. I don't know why you would do something like that.

[–]chronoflect 23 points24 points  (0 children)

It's a super old school method that makes sense if you're only designing for specific hardware because it's easy.

Unfortunately, many devs still tie logic to framerate like this even though we've had many, many examples of why that's a bad idea.

My favorite is Dark Souls 2, where weapon collision was checked per frame so higher framerate resulted in more durability loss.

[–]nccm163700X|Gigabyte 3090|16GB 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Back when they would release one console for a generation, it made sense, everyone has the same hardware so it will run the same for everyone. It made coding a lot simpler, MANY games used to do this, it is why many emulated speed-runs have programs that lock frame rates to keep things fair. The process fell out of vogue after backwards compatibility, multiple consoles with different hardware per generation, and of course, PC porting, became more popular.

[–]ThankYouForCallingVP 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Also, they had a definite target for processing time. Meaning, if they develop at 30fps, they have a target of not exceeding 33 milliseconds of calculation per frame less they risk frame drops.

[–]Zealousideal_Curve11 51 points52 points  (9 children)

That can be the case, and in some instances, tying the FPS to game speed is actually a good idea. However, I don't see why Forza would need that. For most games where that's the case nowadays, that's actually a technical oversight that ends up needing to be patched.

[–]Initial-Tangerine 61 points62 points  (2 children)

in some instances... is actually a good idea.

This is rarely the case, and it usually a rookie/lazy way to design it.

[–]blackout191 22 points23 points  (1 child)

Absolutely. It's one of very few things you learn at the start of a game dev carrier 🤦🏾‍♂️

[–]Yurgonn 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Carrier has arrived!

[–]ChocolateYoghurt 9 points10 points  (5 children)

In what way is it a good idea?

[–]unloud 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It’s good for devices like Playdate that rely on static screens, standard hardware, and analog inputs.

That’s about all.

[–]sedrech818 27 points28 points  (6 children)

Apparently in horizon 5 it did give you an advantage. The timer doesn’t work properly at high framerates so you get a faster time. Don’t know if they fixed it or if this is their idea of fixing it.

[–]Cultural_Thing17125600x/rtx3060/4x8gb ddr4 18 points19 points  (2 children)

wow great stuff turn 10, this bug has been thing since forza horizon 1 and you still haven't fixed it. way to go.

[–]Il_Vento_Rosso 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Technically Playground Games is the developer not turn 10.

[–]Deadpool27153060ti | Ryzen 2600 | 32GB 3200MHz | B450 Tomahawk Max 19 points20 points  (7 children)

Your sentiment is correct but 1FPS definitely has a significant competitive disadvantage than 120FPS. In general though, that's no reason to handicap the player with better hardware.

Competitive shooters already have proven competitive advantages for 60FPS vs 120FPS and higher, but it would be ridiculous to limit it for anyone

[–]chybaignacy 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Frame rate gives absolutely no competitive advantage in a driving game. Absolutely none at all.

Yes it does.

That being said I do not support this decision at all. Especially since T10/PG don't give a damn about fairness where it actually matters (check out above youtuber's other vids for more).

[–]Athebotv2Laptop 26 points27 points  (18 children)

Honestly, I really wanted to preorder the premium version of this game, but I ended up buying AC6.

And I am so glad I did

[–]aBoringSod 46 points47 points  (6 children)

Which one, ace combat, armord core or assassins creed.

[–]BlazingSpaceGhost 30 points31 points  (2 children)

Animal crossing.

[–]aBoringSod 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oh, the doom spin off. Is it any good? Never played it myself.

[–]Aftershok 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Assetto corsa

[–]Adumb_Cant 8 points9 points  (10 children)

AC6 slaps, and I'm really surprised at how well it's optimised for pc given that pc launches aren't always Fromsoftware's strongest area.

[–]Not_Bed_7700x | 7900XT | 32GB 6k | 2TB nvme 3 points4 points  (6 children)

How does it run? I have a trash 60hz monitor rn as the one I ordered is taking forever to arrive, what can I expect at 1440p with the specs in my flair?

[–]PerP1Exe 35 points36 points  (7 children)

At least I know which game to avoid buying now

[–]ProtoJazz 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Honestly.... If you really like racing, there's much better options on PC

[–]criiaax 92 points93 points  (40 children)

Fuck, what? I hoped to not read Forza… ffs?! It’s on Xbox and PC only? So how the fuck can the console not get 60 fps?

[–]Bolaf 82 points83 points  (1 child)

It mighty be limited to 60 fps?

[–]Darkone539 50 points51 points  (12 children)

Fuck, what? I hoped to not read Forza… ffs?! It’s on Xbox and PC only? So how the fuck can the console not get 60 fps?

Consoles can get 60, you can't go above that.

[–]Ordinary_Duder 42 points43 points  (8 children)

Dude... it's obviously limited to 60

[–]a_man_has_a_name 1284 points1285 points  (89 children)

So, is there something tied to framerate? Like acceleration? And they can't be bothered to fix it? or, is their logic litterraly just high FPS = unfair? Because sure, it would help, but if you're a bad player, it's not suddenly going to make you good.

[–]crisadi96Ryzen 9 3900X, 64GB 3200MHz, 3070 1105 points1106 points  (43 children)

Investigations by the community conclude that (at least in Forza Horizon 5 and previous games) the timer is slightly desynchronized in asynchronous multiplayer (ie. Rivals, where you race against ghosts), and suspension behaviour (possibly also tyres?) is subtly altered to bottom out less frequently.

[–]pr1ntscreeni7 10700k, 3080 484 points485 points  (33 children)

I scrolled way too far down to find this comment. There's a legit reason to limit framerate. Just a shame that the bug exist, it'd be nice to run at 120fps for sure

[–]Pandanutiyrx5700 beta tester 299 points300 points  (27 children)

At the end of the day it doesn't matter. Supposedly "made from the ground up" game repeating same game engine problem is not ok, especially when console boxes have 8k120fps written all over them and they struggle to hit 60

[–]Itz_Raj69_Ryzen 7 5800x + RX 6700XT 62 points63 points  (8 children)

struggle to hit 8k60? can they even do 8k30?

[–]Thin_Chipmunk1524 129 points130 points  (1 child)

They can barely do 4k@30

[–]F9-0021Ryzen 9 3900x | RTX 4090 | Arc A370m 38 points39 points  (1 child)

Theoretically, they can output an 8k30 image. The HDMI they use can do 4k120.

The GPU can't hit anywhere near that though.

[–]s-p-o-o-k-i--m-e-m-e 25 points26 points  (6 children)

I don’t think the Xbox has 8k or 120 on its box

[–]ChurroBearPC Master Race 11 points12 points  (3 children)

I believe you are correct. Looking at the box right now and not seeing it

[–]P_ZERO_ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don’t know that they can output 8K/120 at the same time. Those branding elements are purely for signal output capability, not that games would ever utilise them natively.

[–]Historical_Walrus713 20 points21 points  (0 children)

There's a reason... but it's not legit lmao.

A bug in your game is not a "legit reason" to force limit FPS.

[–]o_olihttp://steamcommunity.com/id/o_oli 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Poor indie devs just trying their best on their $30 game, people should be more considerate.

[–]marhensaRyzen 7 5800H | RTX 3060 | 32GB | 2TB NVME 15TB HDD | 300Hz IPS 126 points127 points  (34 children)

in this day and age, game mechanics that tied to framerate is still a thing?

I thought it just old game quirks.

[–]Remarkable-Bar9142 44 points45 points  (10 children)

Cod4(original) and I suspect any cod on that engine had similar oddness past 60 fps, we would always aim for 120fps even back then because in the zombie mod Nacht Der Untoten there was a Dust2 map where we could leave the playfield if we jumped high enough, ie past 120fps we could reach places we were never meant to!

[–]Schmigolo 18 points19 points  (5 children)

Promod was restricted to 250 max I believe but people preferred 120 because it was less floaty. Jumpers would usually toggle between 120/250/333 depending on the kind of jump they were attempting. What you're talking about reaching places was actually one of those times, you would jump on 120 because it made you heavy and then after a bounce you'd toggle on 333 to fly higher.

[–]gysiguyi7 11700k | RTX 3080 10GB | 32GB HyperX 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Aaaaaah, memories :)

GunGame modded servers were the shit on COD4!!

I miss |GB#8|GunGame Arena|by www.gb-clan.de| I wish they would bring it back!

[–]MiniDemonicJust random stuff to make this flair long, I want to see the cap 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Fallout 76, a multiplayer game, the players movement speed was tied to fps so by staring down to the ground you ran faster than looking forward.

[–]MalHeartsNutmegRTX 4070 | R5 5600X | 32GB @ 3600MHz 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Destiny 2 still has an issue where the higher your FPS the weaker you get.

[–]SelloutRealBig 2 points3 points  (1 child)

What happens if you cap your framerate at something like 15? Do you become a juggernaut.

[–]Cuttyflame123 5 points6 points  (1 child)

every game made in gamemaker are tied to framerate

[–]henrebotha 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I think it's important to understand that frame rate isn't "just a graphics setting", it's very much fundamental to how you implement a game. It's not something tacked on at the end, but rather a core part of how a game handles the simulation of time. Not to say that it's impossible to divorce mechanics from frame rate, but it can be more complex than one might expect.

[–]Sith_Goose 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The knives in the recent Resident Evil remakes do more damage at 120+ fps.

[–]Im_simulatedDelidded 7950X3D | 4090 1498 points1499 points  (86 children)

Wow yeah, thats really not cool. I get the idea, but I paid a lot of $ for good hardware and for it to end up pretty useless would definitely be frustrating.

[–]I_suck_cock_for_free 990 points991 points  (58 children)

It's not because of some arbitrary advantage, it's because they were lazy to fix their physics engine which turns advantageous with a higher FPS

[–]Hot_Grab7696 486 points487 points  (47 children)

Oh lmao, isn't "don't code time ticks based off of FPS" the first lesson game devs learn?

[–]sivstarlight 241 points242 points  (12 children)

its literally mentioned in even the most basic tutorial

[–]raltoid 98 points99 points  (10 children)

Are expecting companies like Bethesda to know that?

(For reference fallout 76 had that on launch, so people turned down graphics and looked at the ground to run 50% faster. Perfectly balanced for an open world always online shooter...)

[–]topdangle 45 points46 points  (6 children)

oh they definitely know but they don't care. they infamously restarted the original xbox every once in a while to "fix" their memory leak problem, so they literally knew their game had horrible memory management and instead of fixing it they just had players sit through a super long load screen that hid the xbox rebooting.

[–]Sugioh5600X, 64GB @ 3600, RTX 3070Ti, 905P 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Thief 3 did this as well. Area transitions closed the program and ran a new instance of the executable, lol.

[–]TheolodgerRyzen 5 3600 | GTX 1660 | 32GB 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Next we’ll be bringing back the ‘turbo’ button!

[–]FartingBob 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Fun fact the turbo button in its original form slowed down the processor, because older games ran too fast with the CPU at its default speed. They called it turbo because marketing, but it was in fact the opposite of what the name suggested.

[–]AstronomerPlayful857 40 points41 points  (7 children)

Tell that to Bethesda after so many years lmao. Remember when F76 released ? When You had higher fps you were running faster etc

[–]MaybeAdrian 15 points16 points  (0 children)

That explains the bad performance on launch, they wanted a fair experience for everyone.

[–]willtron300012700k x RTX3080 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Could speed boost looking at the ground running

[–]o_olihttp://steamcommunity.com/id/o_oli 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What really bugs me is that all of their games suffered from that stupid physics at higher FPS and they leave it to the community to fix every time, but suddenly when they released their VR games which need to run at 90fps to function, oh well they fixed it. Like, they could have always fixed it but until it was required for them to get paid, they didn't.

[–]ZoesanRyzen 9 5900X, 32GB DDR4-3600, Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 5700 XT 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Destiny 2 still does it. Fucking abhorrent

[–]YupSuprise940mx i5 7200u | 12 GB RAM 24 points25 points  (6 children)

This is such lazy commentary. If that was the case, the physics would correlate directly with the FPS. But it doesn't, the speed increases/ damping of the suspension do result in the player getting a faster top speed at higher FPS but it most definitely isn't linear.

The people at Microsoft aren't stupid, its clearly a much deeper issue than this and its ridiculous seeing this level of commentary from armchair game devs

[–]CMDRStodgySpecs/Imgur here 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Variable rate physics inconsistencies will typically not correlate directly or linearly with FPS. You mostly get inconsistencies with collisions and integrating codependent forces that change over time. Like for example acceleration, speed and air resistance. Acceleration changes the speed, speed changes the air resistance, air resistance changes the acceleration. It's easy to get consistent results in a fixed time step, impossible with a variable rate and floating point limits.

Microsoft aren't stupid and variable rate physics was probably used because it's a lot simpler, can have better performance and is typically 'good enough' on consoles with a max fps.

[–]CultureWarrior87 9 points10 points  (2 children)

This usually applies whenever people call devs "lazy". Kind of ironic how they call others lazy when really they're just describing their own thought process.

[–]Smart-Share-3074 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Reddit is a filthy place. The amount of lazy ignorant fucks here who watch Digital Foundry and suddenly feel qualified to call bona fide tech warlocks "lazy" or "incompetent" is laughable. Every discussion here feels like a shortsightedness contest. Every day I ask god for the strength to leave this place and never come back.

[–]Royal_J 9 points10 points  (0 children)

hey man. They took a course in uni for a semester or two. They're serious about this.

[–]Ahielia5800X3D, 6900XT, 32GB 3600MHz 41 points42 points  (4 children)

Flashback to Dark Souls 2 PC launch where PC users reported weapons degrading a lot sooner than consoles, turns out the higher fps of PC version had the weapon "in contact" more with whatever you were hitting, and durability got lost for each frame. That was so stupid.

[–]scullys_alien_baby 2 points3 points  (1 child)

don't forget clipping out of the map if you went down a ladder with a high framerate

[–]Kvas_HardBassRTX 3060TI + 5 5600X 99 points100 points  (15 children)

What game is this lol?

[–]CuteTransRat 125 points126 points  (13 children)

Forza motorsport

[–]ItzCobaltboyROG Strix G| Ryzen 7 4800H | 16GB 3200Mhz | RTX 3050Ti Laptop 67 points68 points  (12 children)

WHAT?
Glad i didn't download it

[–]ItchyFishi4090 PNY XLR8 | I9 13900ks | 64GB ddr5 6000mhz 25 points26 points  (11 children)

They can kiss my money goodbye, Shame. i was kinda looking forward to playing it

[–]Im_ready_hbu 33 points34 points  (5 children)

Perhaps a small, niche group of pretentious, whiney PC users isn't their target audience.

[–]GradientOGames 614 points615 points  (24 children)

no Time.deltaTime moment

this comment was made by game dev gang

[–]dendrocalamidicus 169 points170 points  (12 children)

Just using deltatime is not actually fully deterministic across framerates and does result in framerate specific behaviours because you are making calculations at variable steps in time. To have fully deterministic logic you need a fixed timestep (where you should also use deltatime so you can change the timestep in future should you choose to)

Unity provides FixedUpdate for example which should be used for logic. If you're writing your own loop there's articles on fixed timesteps, one of the best known ones of which is this: https://gafferongames.com/post/fix_your_timestep/

[–]brimston3-Desktop VFIO, 5950X, RTX3080, 6900xt 17 points18 points  (1 child)

They could be doing that but it's not sufficiently deterministic and still provides a simulation advantage for higher simulation rate players. For one, the input latency will just straight up be lower.

[–]stone_henge 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Multiplayer games typically run at a fixed tick rate to ensure deterministic simulation. This way, clients only need to know when and what inputs occured rather than resynchronizing the entire world with the server on each tick. In reality it perhaps often ends up somewhere in-between, especially given that some physics libraries have a hard time being deterministic: the simulation runs at a fixed rate to minimize errors (and to provide a basis for saying when inputs occurred) but clients are also able to resynchronize state with the server to account for errors.

The rendering frame rate is then typically decoupled from the simulation rate. The renderer can interpolate between states of the simulation that affect you, like your camera angle, your movement and other players' and enemies movement to give the appearance of smooth motion at higher frame rates even if your simulation is stuck at 60 or even 30.

Therefore I doubt that there is a technical reason for this limitation. The devs of Forza Horizon didn't somehow forget that they can measure time between frames to ensure smooth movement regardless of simulation tick rate, some. I think it's rather what it says on a tin: a deliberate measure for the sake of fairness. In a racing game where you need to react quickly to visual events and where a better illusion of motion makes it easier to make sense of what's happening around you, someone getting a 144 Hz frame rate will have a massive competitive advantage over someone getting 30 Hz.

Personally I'd say fuck that and don't let the lowest common denominator ruin the experience for everyone else even if their play performance is going to suffer from it. But I don't think there's any reason to believe that the devs of Forza Fucking Horizon somehow don't know about the absolute, fundamental basics of a modern game/rendering loop.

[–]handymanshandleR9 5950X, 7900XT@2200MHz, 64GB DDR4, Huawei MateView 3840x2560 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not necessarily going to defend the game's design of how it handles things here, but I would like to state that in the context of the Forza series, it had always been built for one singular experience for just over a decade - from the first Forza Motorsport on the original Xbox to Forza Horizon 3. These games were very much developed with the mindset that they would always hit their target frame rate and that they would always be able to simulate things at the internal polling rate they use.

This changed with the PC port of Forza Horizon 3 and the release of Forza Horizon 4 on the Xbox One X. All of a sudden, you had an entire base built for one consistent experience that now had to be built for two different frame rates and for another platform where you're expected to offer an uncapped frame rate. The technology behind the game wasn't ever intended to handle massively differing frame rates in a situation where the physics were somewhat tied to the frame rate. After all, the only way to make any of the games prior to FH3 drop a frame was to do so in a very intentional fashion (i.e. forcefully generating A LOT of smoke, and alpha transparencies as a result, in Forza Motorsport 4 to drop below 60fps). It's not an issue so much as it is a part of the core design of the game. It's a lot like how older games would have to render out every frame, rather than being able to skip frames if it missed the render time target.

Again, I won't defend that 18 years after the release of the first Forza Motorsport game that it's still like this, but there is a reason for it and given how broken Forza Horizon 5's leaderboards got, I can understand why they made this decision. I really just wished they reworked how they handle the internal tick rate of, well, everything.

[–]KosmuxPowerConsole | i7-12700KF + RTX3060 415 points416 points  (24 children)

If we wanted limited FPS, we had consoles not Power Consoles.

[–]Desperate-Rub-7283 47 points48 points  (1 child)

Imagine that I was considering purchasing a premium upgrade to play motorsport this weekend. Bollocks at Turn10Studios

[–]HotMaleEmail 245 points246 points  (54 children)

Fuck that... I can understand rts games limiting the screen resolution, but I would refund this game instantly.

[–]Pixels222 100 points101 points  (52 children)

limiting the screen resolution

why/how is this different?

Assuming someone wants to play at 4k

[–]ur-average-geekPC Master Race 183 points184 points  (12 children)

It's mostly about ultra-wide resolutions, you basically can see up to three times more stuff than your opponent which is very unfair for a game where keeping an eye out on the battlefield is so important

[–]electriccars 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Never thought about that. But I guess you're right. Now I'm glad they don't limit me to 16:9 in Age of Empires 4.

[–]PR0ME7h3US 81 points82 points  (37 children)

I believe they were talking about aspect ratios.

You can get a big advantage from a 32:9 monitor when playing RTS games, because you have 2 times as much space as a 16:9 monitor.

So some rts games limit resolutions to 16:9 aspect ratios. You can still play in 4k but you have to do so either stretched or with black bars.

[–]GloriousStone10850k | RTX 4070ti 77 points78 points  (16 children)

E sport titles dont limit fps, but some fucking racing game does. Hilarious.

[–]Disregardskarma 29 points30 points  (0 children)

The F1 games have had issues where lower framerate are faster, which is even worse

[–]TheEmperorMk3 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Reminds me of how you take more damage the higher your fps is in Destiny 2

[–]scottprian 41 points42 points  (5 children)

So in the real world, if one driver wears an eye patch, everyone has to wear one?

[–]ManguyHumandudeDesktop 136 points137 points  (10 children)

We must stop this for the future of the PC Masterrace.

[–]Pixels222 33 points34 points  (6 children)

are we boycotting, bois?

[–]criiaax 35 points36 points  (4 children)

aight boys sell all your pcs

[–]SheepherderNo2440 19 points20 points  (3 children)

The game, you silly goose

[–]QuickPirate36 7 points8 points  (1 child)

What game is that

[–]LinkatchuRTX3080 OC ꟾ i9-10850k ꟾ 32GB 3600 MHz DDR4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

New Forza

[–]EnigmaNLRyzen 7800X3D| RTX4090 | 64GB RAM | LG 34GN850 | Pico 4 8 points9 points  (6 children)

Limited to what?

[–]t-pat19917800X3D, 4090FE, 64GB 6000mhz, Jonsbo D31 8 points9 points  (4 children)

60 fps.

[–]CompetitiveGift0 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Probably 60fps. Haha

[–]tsidedmap 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Nobody cared when it was ultrawide monitors being forced to run 16:9 for competitive reasons.

[–]VagueSomething 33 points34 points  (5 children)

Cross play really needs to be console to console for PvP and let PC be able to do its own thing.

[–]cutebleeder 10 points11 points  (0 children)

mods to drive a pod racer

[–]Jhawk163R5 5600X | RX 6900 XT | 64GB 133 points134 points  (24 children)

So fucking glad I decided not to buy this piece of shit.

[–]GreeenTeaa 32 points33 points  (22 children)

What game is it?

[–]grovadude7800X3D | 7900XTX | 64GB6000 | LG 27GL850-B 27" 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Forza Motorsport

[–]Jhawk163R5 5600X | RX 6900 XT | 64GB 56 points57 points  (19 children)

The new Forza Motorsport.

Runs like shit on PC

Looks like shit

Limits framerate online

Plus I'm guessing is going to suffer from exploiting the same FOMO bullshit as Horizon.

[–]Sinniee 27 points28 points  (3 children)

But it comes for the handy price of just 70€!

[–]SJokes 34 points35 points  (5 children)

Looks like shit

Okay let's not lie here.

[–]Misubata 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Forza Motorsport

[–]MAYOoOD5600X | 3080 12GB | 32GB | NZXT X53 16 points17 points  (12 children)

What game?

[–]Calm_Tea_9901 31 points32 points  (11 children)

Based on ui looks like forza

[–]MAYOoOD5600X | 3080 12GB | 32GB | NZXT X53 31 points32 points  (10 children)

I’m really trying to like this game but it’s not letting me

Good thing I stopped preordering games

[–]Calm_Tea_9901 15 points16 points  (9 children)

I understand idea, multi-player games are played with 3:4 resolution or 21:9 with lowest settings to get highest fps possible

Limiting just fps sounds strange

[–]xUnionBuster5800x 3080ti 32GB 3600MHz 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Fuck me wont be getting this then

[–]The_AnfRyzen 7 3700x | 24GB RAM | HD 7970 54 points55 points  (13 children)

What the fuck, so now high FPS is considered as cheating? Why is people supporting and buying this? Are they stupid?

Seriously, what the hell

[–]Adventurous_Bell_837 58 points59 points  (3 children)

It’s because high fps actually changes the physics in the game and they couldn’t be bothered to fix it, the problem isn’t the actual fps.

[–]The_AnfRyzen 7 3700x | 24GB RAM | HD 7970 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Are we back to the 90s or early 2000s?

[–]BlueTemplar85 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Don't forget to press the "Turbo" button to slow down your CPU !

[–]MyHobbyAccount1337 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What modern games don't tie time to fps?

[–]LinkatchuRTX3080 OC ꟾ i9-10850k ꟾ 32GB 3600 MHz DDR4 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Cuz devs are incompetent to fix their game engine

[–]OVIFXQWPRGV 13 points14 points  (0 children)

It's not about cheating.

It's Forza being bugged and the developers found a easier way to "fix" the problem. About a year ago I remember watching YouTube videos on Forza being so bugged that your frame rate will impact your lap times because your frame rate impacted game physics.

This is no different to Fallout 76 where physics was impacted by frames and I remember back then this allowed people to run faster than others.

[–]Decryptic__ 26 points27 points  (5 children)

Ha! Imagine you have a potato computer. There're three possibilities that comes in mind:

  • Your FPS magically enhance to 60 FPS
  • All others players has a capped FPS as you do (lowest FPS is cap)
  • You cannot play multiplayer

Pick your favorite

[–]Annual_Horror_12585800x3d/4080/64GB RAM/VPP755 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Imagine I was thinking about getting premium upgrade to play motorsport this weekend. Bollocks on Turn10Studios

[–]Apex024 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Please tell me this isn't the new Forza...

[–]Zess-57 14 points15 points  (0 children)

-Modern AAA game with a budget bigger than your mom

-Physics tied to screen framerate

[–]Mega221 12 points13 points  (1 child)

This is a racing game, why does it matter what the framerate is? If they seriously tied the gameplay to fps they should really look for better programmers.

[–]t-pat19917800X3D, 4090FE, 64GB 6000mhz, Jonsbo D31 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Physics tied to frame rate like Forza has been doing since the first game. Never bothered to fix this issue in their physics engine since they starting releasing on PC.

[–]Cloak_and_Rose 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I get that some of you are frustrated because you have high-end rigs and feel like you're not getting the most out of them.
But it's important to consider that not everyone has access to top-tier hardware. Limiting the framerate levels the playing field and makes the game more competitive and fair for everyone involved.

At the end of the day-

jk what the fuck is this bullshit

[–]vhk7896rty 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Limited to what? The lowest common denominator to ensure fairness?

[–]Atomik675R7 7800X3D | RTX 3090 | 32 GB RAM 9 points10 points  (1 child)

First it was nerfing ultrawide and now this. What a joke.

[–]MercuryRusing 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"I'm aware you soent $2,000 more on your PC, but we're gonna throttle that"

[–]bledolikiqi5-13400, GTX 1660 Super 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Did someone mention that Forza Motorsport 2023 does not allow you to play the single player campaign if you are not online. Hooray single player games as a service.

[–]Clayskii09819900K | 2080 ti 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Ew

[–]TheBigDiaBLaptop 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I am no Software Engineer/Designer/Whatever. BUT, I think there was a decision between either fixing the physics engine to be framerate indepenent or limit it for every single player.

What a shame that there is no budget or big games studio or time to properly address this issue.

I may be overreacting, but to me this is a prime example of coroporate greed and lazyness

[–]WeakDiaphragm 27 points28 points  (20 children)

Elden ring: has 60 FPS lock

Gamers: THAT'S FINE! GAME OF THE YEAR LESSS GOO!!!

Forza: has 60 FPS lock in multiplayer to allow precise lap times for fair timing across different hardware, not just consoles

Games: THIS GAME IS BASICALLY UNPLAYABLE! LITERALLY 1984!

[–]spartan96219 3 points4 points  (1 child)

If what the comments are true about the physics, then it seems this was an avoidable issue. I'm really not sure about elden ring, so I can't speak on it too much, but if I had to guess, consistency from the start is probably what gave them leniency

[–]Mother-Reputation-20 30 points31 points  (5 children)

Meanwhile, GT7 on PS5 has native 120hz mode, even in sport(competitive) mode

[–]Aggressive-Bed3269 34 points35 points  (2 children)

Almost like gt7 is on ps5 exclusively and guaranteed to be running on the same hardware across the world.

[–]SJokes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How does this even make sense, racing games aren't even that reliant on fps relative to other multiplayer games. I could still easily be competitive with 30fps

[–]NTRmanMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To ensure fairness. Everyone locked to 10 fps

[–]Loreweaver15 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's possible there's some gameplay element that's linked to framerate. It happens more often than you'd think; for example, the the Resident Evil 2 remake, the number of hits a knife registers each swing goes up with framerate, so the official speedrun boards instituted a 120 FPS cap so most players could be on an equal level while still taking advantage of the mechanic. You could legit melt bosses in a couple swings with uncapped FPS.

[–]LycanWolfGamer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lol just cap your FPS to 20.. you'd win by default

[–]Herecomesdanny 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Everyone gets a trophy

[–]Miner47000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Was gonna get it till I saw this, in a RACING game of all things