Xenoblade 3's only allusion to the High Entia

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T07:39:42+00:00

Also...

Im sure you’ll change your dumb misguided theories as we get closer to launch of the next game.

Considering my theory have been pretty much the same for a decade, it's unlikely to change drastically. Did require an adjustment for XC2, but otherwise, Shulk's civilization embarking on an Ark, and then landing at the beginning of the universe is what I've been gambling on since forever.

And I'm willing to gamble that this second universe will be the origin story of Ghost (Black fog) and Samaarian, which is going to be based on the same concept as the Gnosis.

But those are theories which is fine to call it head canon. The issue with your argument is that you also deny explanations that are heavily based on past Xeno's lore just because you do not like the idea of the game reusing the same lore and symbolism. That's where you're completely wrong, and why your lack of knowledge about the series show.

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T07:21:36+00:00

I answered every single one of your point.

You're the one who hasn't been able to demonstrate that the Xeno franchise isn't about humanity looping around the universe.

Monado: The beginning of the world....geez, I wonder what that title entails.

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T07:09:15+00:00

He would absolutely have to retcon a fuck ton of shit to merge the different universes.

I misunderstood your argument. I thought you were implying that the ending was changed alongside the title, which is a common beliefs you see on this subreddit by everyone who deny the connections.

XC1 ending is absolutely a reference to the previous franchises. The last scene begin with a trip around the solar system where the Monolith would be found (Space odyssey). The whole scene with Alvis appearing as light is nearly identical to the encounter with the "Wave Existence", and then you find out about the Zohar-experiment which made the Earth vanish in the process. Like it did in previous game.

The main difference (at the time) is that humanity didn't go to space like it did in Gesrs and Saga. Instead, it was closer to Xenosaga's original timeline that would loop much earlier, and would bring the entire humanity on a journey to return to the beginning of the world.

On that topic, if you want to talk about about "Monado: Beginning of the World", maybe you should take a clue from the franchise original title. It was always about looping around the universe with a Zohar experiment.

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T06:44:49+00:00

Can he connect them all to same timeline?

How the fuck is it relevant and why do you keep bringing that up? We have 4 stories that rethread the same path down to the fine details. I do not give a shit if they are connected or not. We have a pattern, and that pattern explains everything reliably.

If I could predict Final fantasy with it, I certainly would, but I can't. It only works with Takahashi's own work. Why? Because he use the same narrative over and over, and you know as well as me it's not a "coincidence". He purposely write the big and small details that way. You don't accidentally have two franchises climax in in TC4767. You don't have 3 (probably 4) experiment on the Zohar in 2001 in a similar context. He could easily write thing differently. Yet he choose not to. Every big reveal moment are essentially "Hey, look at how similar this is to my previous game", and then he proceed in the same direction.

You're the one in denial if you think Takahashi isn't purposely going out of his way to make them as similar as possible.

He would absolutely have to retcon a fuck ton of shit to merge the different universes.

Not that it matter, but how does he have to retcon anything? As long the new humanity end on Earth, it will roughly lead to the same point. Heck, that's one of the main take away of XCFR.

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T06:33:01+00:00

All I’m seeing here is you flinging a ton of shit at the wall and being happy that some of it stuck. Oh, you predicted an ark in the story when the main character was named Noah!?! How did you do that 😮!?!

Yeah, focus on "Noah's ark"... The claim that they were already on an Ark from the start, that it was in a timeless state because of humanity's collective desire, and that the anima/animus would guide it to its destination (which I'm pretty sure I said would be Earth elsewhere). That's more than you will ever do.

And those prediction are all based on existing pattern from Gears/Saga/X anyway. We can't generate an infinite number of possibilities. Usually one, sometime two or three. I'm all ears if you can propose alternative explanation based on existing lore.

How do you reconcile that fact? It’s fucking so obvious that 1 is nothing like the others because it isn’t!

The best evidence is a non-existing version of the game that neither of us can play? For someone who is screaming "head canon", hearing you talk about a non-existing version of the game is gold.

Secondly, despite all your claim, it was still written with an "Anima, Animus, and Persona" in mind. The cycle of destruction and recreation, the "Trinity", the Animus character sharing two mind in one body...surely, those aren't brand new concepts introduced in XC1? It was certainly a "Xeno-lite" compared to what we got later on, but it was still pretty close in many regard to his previous work.

In the end, the version we got began with the destruction of an universe, and ended with its recreation. That's the canon.

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T06:04:10+00:00

What do you make of the Samaarian, who share the same DNA as human, and travel onboard Ark that look like Abel's Ark? Surely, it's all coincidence?

Here is a picture of Zaruboggan's creator...look like normal human, no? Mean nothing, right?

Or "In the Forest" lyrics that spell it out for you, but it's not like Sawano to have relevant lyrics in all of his soundtrack...

We had our time on mother earth All the way to our father's land Now we're fighting hard in common land It's a cycle of karma

The Samaarian are either human from a previous universe, who went through a full cycle, or they are something else. What hint make you think that XCX is breaking away from the mold and is bringing you a mysterious alien race that has nothing to do with humanity? Surely, someone as well versed in Xeno lore as you would have a compelling argument.

Heck, the game blatantly show you Zohar-shaped quantum computer that could replicate life, like the one that did exactly that in Xenogears... Surely, the Samaarian wouldn't have access to such tech

Xenogears: A certain discovery rocked the modern world-an "Object" with the shape of an eye (though clearly being of unnatural origins) had been found deep within a bed of sedimentary rock that was approximately 3.9 billion years old. Eventually, one research institution advanced an alarming new hypothesis about the "Object," stating that its appearance in Earth's geological timeline coincided with the earliest known life ever found; the hypothesis suggested this "Object" may have been the source of all terrestrial life: "artificial" panspermia

Or the white light. Every Xeno game use it to portray a dimension jump that originate from the Zohar activation. Once again, it must totally be a coincidence that XCX use that in its opening, and 2 years later, they are reborn in a closed space time bubble and is connected to all time and era (Professor quest, Manon quest).

I'm sorry, but that shit is obvious and purposely telegraphed by Takahashi. Humanity has looped around in XCX, and continued to do so in XC, XS, and XG.
Save that, and come back to me when XCX2 will come out.

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T04:56:02+00:00

Nice head canon!

It's literally the plot of Xenosaga and Xenoblade X. Have you even played those games?

Xenogears's main antagonist whole purpose was to return to Earth.

Which one of the three are you denying?

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T04:53:42+00:00

Well, I do. At least the more recent one after I realized that reddit search is absolute garbage.

After XC3

Before XC3

Predicted the Ark, it being stuck outside of time. Predicted the two "ouroboros" faction, where one wanted to reunification (forward) and another wanting a repeat. I'm sure you will contest my wording, like "finding a guide", but the reality is that then ending of XS3 is fundamentally the same as Xenosaga which is what I was basing it on. Basically a new embodiment of the Anima and Animus taking control of the Ark.
Ring thematic on the Ark's planet. Didn't pan out how I anticipated, since the world was ring shaped, rather than one around the planet with a ring around. Nonetheless, this is close: "If I had to make a bet at this very moment, my money would be on Aionios being a stranded Abel's ark, without the Anima or Animus to move it forward. Without anyone at the helm, the Ark would just stray away outside of time in the Imaginary Realm. That's where Noah and Mio will come in."

Before XC2

Thread about the Eternal Return (7 years ago)

But yeah, focus on the details that are wrong, when the main theme are all correct, since they come straight from Xenosaga anyway.

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T03:16:35+00:00

Grow up. You're the one who engaged the conversation with hostility. And secondly, you will be wrong as long Takahashi is writing.

XC2 and XC3 gave you all the hint that you need, and stopped just short of spelling it out for you. You can choose to pretend none of that shit is in the game, and keep bitching about Takahashi making up shit as he go, but it's coherent, and been heading in one direction since the beginning.

So yes, more Jung's psychology and Nietzsche's philosophy will shape the next game. Yes, Black Fog is an unresolved mystery that can only be explained by the remnant of humanity who couldn't be reincarnated. Yes universe loop around, and go back to a similar universe. It was the case, and is still the case. They did it 3 times, and will do it 4 times. They even show it in the very last scene of the game.

Again, save this post and come back in 5 years. I know I'm right, much like I was about the Ark before Xenoblade 3.

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T02:54:42+00:00

Yep. It's been suggested before XCFR , and reiterated by many since. Matthew's wield Pneuma's power, N (and Noah late game) wield Logos' power. Those two powers combined is what allowed them to rival Alpha.

There is also Z's line that make it pretty clear that Logos wield one of the 3 Aegis.

Sword of the end...What machinations could have led it into that man's [N] grasp? I see Origin brims with the very will..of those who are as unto gods... - Z

And ultimately, the one who bring end of a cycle has always been the male persona of that trinity in previous Xeno. XC3 simply continue that trend.

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T02:08:33+00:00

Were Noah and Mio on their first reincarnation post N and M transformation into Moebius? I don't think the game was ever clear on that issue.

Either way, the game frame it as M's and N's regret giving birth to them. Probably not too unlike Fei's and Shion's broken personality in XG and XS, except that Origin actually gave birth to them as a 2nd entity.

If Fear can give birth to Moebius, regret can probably give birth to people as well.

Kaellian · 2023-05-10T01:24:17+00:00

Fair enough. Just save the post and come back in 5 years when the next Xeno is out. It will spell half of that shit for you in plain words, since you're too dense to catch the obvious laid out in front of you.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T19:56:05+00:00

I like "Endless sea" to describe that plane since that's what it was. And then there is the short lived spherical remnant of that world that lasted like 14 years or something.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T19:45:32+00:00

You do not unless you have some objective system for determining when a game gets a 10/0 but actually deserves a 10 and 0 vs when that's just review bombing.

Review bombing make any system irrelevant for that exact reason. It's not unique to Metacritics, or their method of measurement. You can't make good stats with a heavily skewed dataset.

If you want to make a statement that no "single KPI is ever enough", then yes, I agree, but that's not on metacritics. Change your complains to bitch about every single numerical reviews.

No you wouldn't have a pattern to compare to others, because one review could be 99% binary 1% spectrum, another could be 99% spectrum 1% binary, and we can't determine which is which.

Congratulation, you understand the importance of variance.

Now, it's time to grow and realize that because variance can lead to odd result once in a while, looking at the voting pattern will show you certain trend that can be generalized. Those trend is why a numerical score is still for the most part an alright metric.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T19:29:07+00:00

Which part? Humanity looping around the universe? Humanity being split in incomplete half? The symbolism of the anima/animus/ouroboros based on Jung?

I don't care if you think it's head canon, all of that shit is in the game.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T19:24:32+00:00

You know the distribution pattern, and you know the overall score. You also have a list of all the data point.

What the fuck do you want?

When you mix the two you then have one system where a 6/10 and a 10/10

You do realize that 6/10 or 9/10 means absolutely jack shit. You're the one who is inferring a meaning to a number, because my 7 out of 10 means something different than your 7 out of 10.

If you were averaging some precise and objective metric, then yeah, you wouldn't want that needless complexity, but when it come to review, all you want to do is create a patterns that can be compared to other patterns.

In that regard, their method of measurement is just as good as any because it will create a pattern that will allow you to rank things. That's why your complain is largely irrelevant.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T19:13:54+00:00

You have the exact same issue with tomato meters and so many other scores. Is it 49% vs 51%, or 0% vs 100%.

That issue is also made moot by the score distribution they show at the top, and give you a relative distribution of the "positive/mixed/negative" score. With both combined, you can easily figure out if it's a divisive game, or an average game.

It makes it a complete nightmare.

Complete nightmare to do what? The overall score is a perfectly fine metrics. It's going to create a pattern that give you the overall performance just the same.

The main concern with user score is how easy it is to review bombs, or brigade. It's not how the number are calculated.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T19:04:50+00:00

It's just a weighted "yes/no" that will be skewed slightly toward the negative since it's "0" vs "6-10".

It's as good as any other metrics, as long you don't try to compare it to a different "user score" measured elsewhere with a different methods.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T17:57:57+00:00

Gonna get gobbled by a Fish called L.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T17:56:20+00:00

Added tags. I thought it had an "all game" spoiler tags.

Anyway, they are technically called "Xeno" in the game, and definitively presented as such. But we also haven't had the big reveal yet, and the game is filled with small reference that indicate otherwise.

Takahashi being Takahashi, we can kind of guess where they are going with all of this. Could be wrong obviously, but the odd are slim at this point. And all of that was guessed before we even had Xenoblade Chronicles 2. The last few reveal in XC2/XC3 indicates yet again a convergence toward the same storyline.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T17:29:19+00:00

Copy pasting from my other post, but nearly every races in XCX had direct connection to Samaarian, who were human from a previous universe. Take the Zaruboggan for example, who were born from Nanomachine created by those guys. Ovah originate from a virus that infected bug on Mira, and tagged alongside the Samaarian. The Ganglion were bioengineered by the Samaarian as well, who created a kill switch to kill them off. There is a few races we know little about, but given that they are all part of the Samaar Federation, it's a safe bet to assume they share a similar backstory.

Those Conduit-looking quantum computers and Samaarian who happened to return to the beginning of the universe onboard Ark that look almost identical to the one they used in Xenosaga to do exactly that, it would be insanely surprising if we were dealing with actual alien race.

L is an exception, but he is obviously the Arbiter of the system. He control Telethia (who purge the world of unwanted elements) and has a key on his neck, much like Alvis originally did, or Shion's. The original art also show a Space elevator on Mira, which we haven't seen, but point toward more similarities as they are always behind alpha/omega experiment.

Nopons and Wave Existence are the one Xeno being that are always considered outside the cycle.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T17:20:20+00:00

Nearly every races in XCX had direct connection to Samaarian, who were human from a previous universe. Take the Zaruboggan for example, who were born from Nanomachine created by those guys. Ovah originate from a virus that infected bug on Mira, and tagged alongside the Samaarian. The Ganglion were bioengineered by the Samaarian as well, who created a kill switch to kill them off. There is a few races we know little about, but given that they are all part of the Samaar Federation, it's a safe bet to assume they share a similar backstory.

With all those Conduit-looking quantum computers and Samaarian who happened to return to the beginning of the universe onboard Ark that look almost identical to the one they used in Xenosaga to do exactly that, it would be insanely surprising if we were dealing with actual alien race.

In Gears the Chu-Chu race are natural to the planet but could be argued to be a proto-Nopon idea. Saga has Gnosis as an alien force

Chu-chu is the only non-human sentient being in that Universe, but Xenosaga bring doubt about the existence of Xenogear's planet in our universe in the first place. It's heavily implied to be Earth itself in the Imaginary Domain given the similarities between Abel's Ark lead planet and Xenogear's planet.

Secondly, there is mixed information in regard to Chuchu has they didn't gain awareness until much later. Alpha-1 is the origin of the first intellectual lifeform on the planet (quote: -Persona- executes "System HAWWA" from key program "Elehayym". The first intellectual lifeform is born on this planet).

Chuchu would have gained awareness later on when they were experimented on during the Zeboim era (quote: Year 6084 Excess smoke and ash in the stratosphere bring about nuclear winter and animals that survived the destruction of gene research facilities escape; the Chu-Chu is born).

Both quote are from perfect work.

If anything it actually feels like a big deal that there are so many actual Alien species in X when that was never the case in any other Xeno game.

It absolutely is a big deal, but that's only structured this way to mislead us into thinking it's any different. The fine details all point in the same direction as Xenogears, Xenosaga, and XC1-3.

Even the Ghost are most likely the same as the Black Fog, the one major unresolved plotline that seem to draw its inspiration from the Gnosis.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T16:05:04+00:00

For one lawsuit, but the current context is going to open the floodgate to many more. That's why they absolutely had to make that deal out of court, or it would have made everyone's else job even easier by demonstrating that they have been acting in bad faith.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T15:54:14+00:00

they be 0 or 10 or any number in between.

That's not really an issue on its own. User score, minus review bombing, would be similar to the average "thumb up/thumb down", which is still an interesting metrics, even if it cannot be taken in vacuum.

Kaellian · 2023-05-09T15:22:09+00:00

The Sword of Legendaryness. One of the many reference to XC1, which might someday be canonically related, or not. They are going to save the world from Ghosts with that thing.

Joking aside, I really hope the potential reference to past and future Xenoblade will play out someday. Uraya titan would be the best proof that nothing was left to chance in this franchise, but all those small thing like the Monado can easily be explained by that as well.

Kaellian

TROPHY CASE

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