Is "I'll wait for Novavax" always a red flag?

scoutingmist · 2021-10-29T03:45:58+00:00

This is such a false argument, novavax isn't even out of the testing phase yet, so to argue you are worried about side effects from Pfizer, but then say you'll get a vaccine that can't even show all it side effects is so dumb.

Smorgasbord__ · 2021-10-29T04:19:06+00:00

When Novavax comes around they'll have a reason not to take that either, it's just a way of kicking the can down the road.

lordpsymon · 2021-10-29T03:50:50+00:00

I grow tired of people who have "done their research."

plodbax · 2021-10-29T03:41:42+00:00

"some research they had done".

I love this answer. Bet the research was sitting on the shitter watching videos on rumble or Facebook.

monkeyapplejuice · 2021-10-29T03:43:27+00:00

"I wont wear a condom because she said she'll get the morning after pill"

same energy.

rionled · 2021-10-29T03:36:07+00:00

sleemanj · 2021-10-29T04:34:32+00:00

"I don't want the vaccine produced by a major pharmaceutical manufacturer who has been in the business of pharmaceutical manufacture since the 1840s, has been used by billions of people around the globe, has regulatory approval, and is shown time and time again to be safe and effective. Instead I want to use an unproven vaccine which has not been used, which has no regulatory approval, has production problems, and is being made by a company who has never brought a product to market before, ever, let alone a vaccine."

Yes, I think they might just be an antivax in disguise, or somebody with REALLY bad decision making skills.

velcrolips · 2021-10-29T03:55:09+00:00

Given that 6 billion other vaccines have been given and deemed very safe. I would say yes

wkavinsky · 2021-10-29T03:51:04+00:00

Yes it's a red flag.

We do have an order in, but the company that makes it is having issues with producing it at the right purity, and it has not been approved by any regulatory agency in the world.

Lisadazy · 2021-10-29T03:43:28+00:00

Yes. Always. Thinking you know more than the actual doctors is always a red flag. The myth is that it contains less ingredients (false) and is better as it’s the traditional type of vaccine.

EcoScratcher · 2021-10-29T03:55:36+00:00

Not always, but here yes. Try to persuade them that mRNA isn't bad.

BTW we have an order for 10 mil of Novavax ETA next year. So depending on your workplace they won't be around for much longer

AudioCabbage · 2021-10-29T06:01:38+00:00

Funny isn't it - here in Oz there was outcry from certain age groups that Pfizer was been restricted to a younger cohort, and that older cohort were DEMANDING Pfizer and not AZ.

Any one saying they're waiting for the next one is talking nonsense. Any vax is fine, the one available to you now is the best one.

WaddlingKereru · 2021-10-29T06:31:18+00:00

The fact that they’ve specifically chosen a vaccine that isn’t approved or used anywhere rather than any of the others tells me that it’s just delaying tactics

sleepea · 2021-10-29T04:19:45+00:00

I find it to be the most popular excuse, and really love to ask them what it is about Pfizer that concerns them?

One of two things happens at this point: they either get very vague and the argument falls apart, or they bring out the crazy reasons that can be reasonably dismissed with some logic and MoH supported stats. Unfortunately it takes an awful lot of effort to deal with the latter, and too often they feel backed into a corner and the even crazier stuff comes out- distrust of the govt/nazism/fake news/natural selection/ world war 3.

It’s all the same really- people way way out of their depth. MRNA vaccines are safe, clean and effective. Idk about the rest of you, but the whole vax process for me was rather uneventful and really no big deal.

2021-10-29T03:37:30+00:00

Yeah, it seems to be the best way for people to tell you that they’re not vaccine hesitant, they just don’t like the option they were given. Makes it totally okay to carry on unvaccinated apparently.

ycnz · 2021-10-29T06:57:45+00:00

Well, they had to change tack after the FDA changed to a full approval, which was their previous "concern".

iiivy_ · 2021-10-29T10:47:46+00:00

There’s barely any data on effectiveness for any vaccines against Delta. But, Novovax has displayed high efficacy to the same standard of the other vaccines, especially against the Alpha variant. In addition, it has a lot less & less severe side effects. This is a concern for a lot of people. Also you weed out the “omg mRNA will change my DNA!” idiots when you give them an alternative that doesn’t use technology that is completely foreign to most of the population. New Zealand already has a pre-purchase agreement with Novovax, so it’s looking like a promising alternative for those who aren’t comfortable with Pfizer, for whatever reason. I don’t see a problem with Novovax as an alternative. It has been slow being developing but that’s mainly because testing in phase trials occurred when the pandemic was waning, yet it is in Phase 3 so let’s hope for those who don’t want Pfizer, we’ll have an alternative soon.

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/619276/

thefakecornholio · 2021-10-29T03:42:23+00:00

Yes. It gives validation to their belief. Anything to make it seem like their reason is authentic and based off logic.

lozzams · 2021-10-29T06:31:24+00:00

One of my colleagues (on a work call no less) mentioned that because he isn’t a sheep, he is waiting for novavax and is one of the people that are taking it on trial before it’s released. I guess instead of being a sheep he’s a hamster?

123felix · 2021-10-29T03:43:09+00:00

the company has never successfully developed any vaccine ever

BioNTech and Moderna have never successfully developed any vaccines before either, so I wouldn't count that against them.

there's no order for Novavax in NZ

That's not correct, the government bought 10.7m doses.

EBuzz456 · 2021-10-29T04:25:14+00:00

Almost always it's a read between the lines statement that tries to present their anti-vax misinformation in 'reasoned' way.

nzsims · 2021-10-29T05:55:17+00:00

It’s the same fucking scientific method used to prove both vaccines. So why are you prepared to trust one and not the other. These people will always have more special requirements for their special lives.

2021-10-29T04:46:22+00:00

Imo it's a divisive way to delay or be anti vaxx without getting into the great debate.

haamfish · 2021-10-29T07:36:54+00:00

Novavax? Aren’t we only using Pfizer in nz anyway? Who makes that one anyway? Why wait for that? So many questions.

cherbonylfish · 2021-10-30T22:56:22+00:00

What’s wrong with people exercising free choice? It’s saddening to see New Zealand become so divided. Regardless of which camp you’re in, whether you believe everyone should have Pfizer, that all vaccines are terrible, or if you simply want one of the brands that are not yet in the country, everyone has their own body to be looking after and their own beliefs on what is healthy for them. We were so great at uplifting and supporting one another at the beginning of this pandemic, it would be a shame to loose that spirit of humanity to fear and suspicion

ivyspinners · 2021-10-29T05:13:27+00:00

Not always. People who had myocarditis dose 1, example.

The real problem are people who have said "There's some research," when the 'research' is always some antivaxxer on the Internet going, Just trust me, Dude. Instead of the literal hundreds of millions of people around the world who got the vaccination and are fine.

Just tell them they can get a novovax booster when it arrives, but they're being against the clock they're not going to catch it in the mean time and cause a business shut down, or going to pass it to an immunocompromised or person. So get the pfizer now and get a novovax booster later.

bobdaktari · 2021-10-29T03:45:13+00:00

pretty much a red flag - the research they've done is I would wager never via scientific sources more social media

there might be a very very very few that say Novavax because its more "traditional" compared to Pfizer's mRNA technology (or whatever ya call it) but even then its still more red flag than not

We have ordered 10 million doses - earliest we expected them was early next year, given recent developments it could be the year after or to use a date beloved by politicians 2030

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-strategy-planning-insights/covid-19-purchasing-vaccines#novavax

ToastedSubwaySammich · 2021-10-29T05:18:14+00:00

Wait what? They got their first shot but they won't get their second because they don't want Pfizer at all??

How does that make sense? Why bother even getting it??

FemaleKwH · 2021-10-29T06:13:19+00:00

I mean you are risking COVID for months rather than taking the plunge on mRNA that has been given out 6 billion times. And when Novavax comes out they likely will not have the production capacity to grow it.

mendopnhc · 2021-10-29T06:54:06+00:00

crazy how many vaccine experts exist all of a sudden ngl

theblackthorne · 2021-10-29T09:16:09+00:00

Im in the novavax trial (in the UK). Preliminary data seems to suggest it is effective, at least on par or slightly better than pfizer and others.

However they don't seem anywhere near a large scale release and a few % points of improved efficacy isnt worth deliberately not having a vaccine for months.

E.g. its a false argument and likely a red flag from someone who doesnt want to get the vaccine but doesnt want to be labelled anti-vax

ZacharyCallahan · 2021-10-29T09:29:25+00:00

It's a PC answer for anti-vaxxers to use in a work setting.

Different-Lychee-852 · 2021-10-29T11:31:18+00:00

Is it really that big of a red flag? Its a subunit vaccine as opposed to mrna, which i thought was very common for vax we've had before. Maybe some people are can kicking but it makes sense that a more easily understood vaccine has appeal

SerbianWolf1389 · 2021-10-30T05:15:19+00:00

I was one of those people here in Australia waiting for Novavax mainly due to avoiding the side effects of mRNA vaccines such as myocarditis and so on. Also until recently Astra Zeneca wasnt available to me as I’m under 50 Or whatever the current age limit is. Interestingly there was lots of negative press against AZ here in Australia a few months ago which coincided with a drive for younger people to get Pfizer. So I saw my doctor just the other day and went ahead and got my first shot of AZ. I’ll be getting my second AZ shot in about 6-8 weeks.

Furthermore I have read that AZ won’t be produced in Australia anymore next year which makes me fear that I would be left with no choice other than the mRNA vaccines soon. Hence why I went with AZ now rather than delay any more.

However I hope to use Novavax as a booster once it does come to Aus next year.

Paul_Offa · 2021-10-29T05:07:16+00:00

It's beyond belief to me that most people here think someone preferring a different type of vaccine is "always a red flag" and that such people are somehow "definitely antivax" and that they "probably did their research on facebook".

I am already vaccinated with Pfizer so it's not a personal issue for me but fuck me dead, the sheer irony of you people claiming it's an antivax conspiracy is, in itself, some mininformative, conspiratorial irony.

Novavax Phase 3 data factsheet showing, amongst other highlights, 100% protection against severe and moderate disease. As well as showing extremely high (90%+) efficiency as well as against variants.

From THE ATLANTIC, not "facebook research":

The latest Novavax data confirm that it’s possible to achieve the same efficacy against COVID-19 with a more familiar technology that more people may be inclined to trust. (The mRNA vaccines delivered efficacy rates of 95 and 94 percent against the original coronavirus strain in Phase 3 trials, as compared with 96 percent for Novavax in its first trial, and now 90 percent against a mixture of variants.)

From the same article, with links to the research, showing lower side effects:

The Novavax vaccine also has a substantially lower rate of side effects than the authorized mRNA vaccines. Last week’s data showed that about 40 percent of people who receive Novavax report fatigue after the second dose, as compared with 65 percent for Moderna and more than 55 percent for Pfizer. Based on the results of Novavax’s first efficacy trial in the U.K., side effects (including but not limited to fatigue) aren’t just less frequent; they’re milder too.

The bottom line for most people who read about Novavax:

In this context, the success of the Novavax vaccine should be A1 news. The recent results confirm that it has roughly the same efficacy as the two authorized mRNA vaccines, with the added benefit of being based on an older, more familiar science. Novavax combines ease of manufacture with high efficacy and lower side effects. For the moment, it’s the best COVID-19 vaccine we have.

Some of those people who have been wary of getting the mRNA vaccines may find Novavax more appealing.

^That's literally as simple as it needs to be.

Should people still get Pfizer right now anyway? Yes. But it's not some secret conspiracy or "antivaxxer red flag" to prefer one vaccine that is clearly as good or better.

Fuck me dead. You people are literally insane.

metametapraxis · 2021-10-29T07:57:03+00:00

NZ ordered just under 5.5 million doses of Novavax and this is the current tentative plan for boosters. It has completed phase 2 clinical trials (I believe) and its performance against delta is looking good.

https://www.contagionlive.com/view/novavax-covid-19-vaccine-booster-provides-6-fold-delta-variant-antibodies

Though why someone would choose a (relatively) unproven vaccine over one proven on an unprecendented and massive scale is baffling. I mean, they will both be absolutely fine and probably have similar efficacy, but still.

People are fuckwits and they think Googling something constitutes research. Also some people really need to be a member of an exclusive club to gain self-validation, and anti-vax is just the exclusive club to suck them in.

w1na · 2021-10-29T05:00:41+00:00

Not sure why you would criticise a company who never came up with a vaccine ever when the vaccine for covid is brand spanking new.

The thing is different covid vaccine have different efficacy against different strains. Pfizer was super good against the original covid19, but against delta, it is a bit different efficacy rate and effect (transmitability, etc.)

r3dD1tC3Ns0r5HiP · 2021-10-29T07:43:36+00:00

Novavax is the new Half Life 3.

silver565 · 2021-10-29T05:18:33+00:00

What is the deal with wanting this one? Why have the latched onto it?

GuvnzNZ · 2021-10-29T05:35:11+00:00

I suspect in and of itself no, but it probably indicates where this person has been getting info from and the kind of messages that are influencing their thinking.

Sweet-Zookeepergame7 · 2021-10-29T08:00:27+00:00

All the cool kids have Pfizer anyway

SafariNZ · 2021-10-29T09:09:40+00:00

It’s like saying “I’ll wait for a the next lifeboat to be built, it may be better than this one”

Snackrattus · 2021-10-29T10:20:05+00:00

It's not a reasoned comment, no. Pfizer went through all the testing, passed all the requirements, has been accepted worldwide, etc. There are no grounds to trust Novavax over Pfizer, esp since Pfizer has far more data than Novavax is capable of providing.

But... they're not reasoned comments. They're emotional, feeling ones. The engine of Covid-as-a-hoax has been grinding its gears for over a year now. Pfizer, for months. And antivax fears predate Covid19 entirely.

Covid's threat doesn't feel real, especially here in NZ where most of us haven't felt it. But Pfizer's possible threat does. And believing you're being coerced or mandated does, too, if you're a fierce individualist. People may claim that they use conscious and deliberate logic to reach their conclusions, but the truth is that we all tend towards subconscious emotional answers, first. Logic is used to justify them.

It is a rare person that will follow logic when it conflicts with their feelings. Thus the power of propaganda, public opinion, conspiracy and 'controversy' has done more damage than any amount of science, study, statistics, or qualified experts can merely reason away.

2021-10-29T19:24:13+00:00

People can be pretty poor at expressing themselves sometimes. Especially when they feel they are going to get judged heavily for they answer. They'll just end up saying whatever seems socially acceptable, without expressing their true feelings.

People are worried about adverse events. They are waiting for Novavax because they think it will be a safer option.

So they say, "I want Novavax" instead of "I feel like the pfizer vaccine isn't safe" or whatever because they'll get chewed out by rabid pro vaxxers if they do. Can't say I blame em. Judging by my interactions.

I think it also points out our lack of personal choice in the matter. So it's a milder, more socially acceptable way of expressing your pov.

With all that said, if Nova is safe they could end up taking it, true to their world.

In any which case. I think it's perfectly fine to be cautious when it comes to your own health. That goes both ways...

scoundrel26889 · 2021-10-29T22:01:37+00:00

As someone working the vaccination helpline. Doing daily call out campaigns to people who haven’t booked this comes back so much. From the tone I’d say most are just anti vax.

2021-10-30T15:35:08+00:00

Mind your own business always works instead of being a busybody

2021-10-30T15:40:06+00:00

Does the internet not work in NZ? Novavax is far better than the mRNA vaccines.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/novavax-now-best-covid-19-vaccine/619276/

NaCLedPeanuts · 2021-10-29T06:10:33+00:00

I've seen some stuff that says Novavax has a high efficiency rate for longer and that the MoH has ordered them for booster shots. But as far as I am concerned, it's probably a case of them not wanting to get vaccinated without saying they don't want to get vaccinated.

AlbinoWino11 · 2021-10-29T07:22:17+00:00

Novavax is months and months away. Covid is here now. Waiting is not a realistic option.

Shulgin46 · 2021-10-29T08:15:33+00:00

Getting one vaccine doesn't somehow make your body incompatible with another vaccine. It's like saying, "no, I don't want to eat that meal today. I'm waiting until lasagne is served...eventually...at some point in my life. Because, you know, I want to optimise my nutrient intake...". It's silly. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to get another brand's vaccine down the road, in addition to the 2x Pfizers I've already had.

fishaholic1234 · 2021-10-29T08:20:53+00:00

Could be a legitimate excuse. Some of my family members are understandably hesitant about the pfizer after another family member spent 5 nights in hospital with chest pain after the 2nd jab

The novavax is showing much less side effects and higher efficacy in trials

Kyhwanapardus · 2021-10-29T04:11:54+00:00

Yes, they're an anti-vaxer.

(If we did ever get it, they'd just quote https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/19/novavax-vaccine-rush-process-global-campaign-516298 and "wait" for something else)

Gr3yKn1ght42 · 2021-10-29T08:45:27+00:00

I think people should be entitled to their own opinion regardless of how you feel about it. People shouldn't get bullied or shed for how they feel about anything regardless if it's about what vaccine they're getting, how they feel politically or if they want to be non binary etc. So many people are quick to go to the segregation and different classes of people in regards to whether or not they've had the jab and frankly it's unsettling.

I know my opinion is in the minority but frankly with all the hate I've been given for being half American( for the last 9 years) without getting to the talk of covid and politics makes me feel unsafe here tbh.

If science can't be questioned is it really science?

s_nz · 2021-10-29T07:52:55+00:00

To answer the question, Yes. Novavax is looking good, but won't be available here for months, while we are in the midst of a Covid-19 outbreak, and have stock one of the worlds best vaccines available here now...

I'm quite a fan of Novavax. Has a lot of things going for it. Seems to be the front runner for NZ to use as booster shots (for those that got vaccinated mid - late in the rollout)

But that doesn't mean I delayed getting vaccinated with Pfizer... This company is beset with major production issue's, and is yet to get it's vaccine approved anywhere globally (But has filed for approval in a handful of markets). No way it is going to be here in the next few months.

I suspect many of those waiting for Novavax are just using it as an excuse, and will shift the goal posts if it arrives (back to "it's too new or something)".

the company has never successfully developed any vaccine ever

They have never brought a vaccine to market.

As far as I'm aware, there's no order for Novavax in NZ, even if they do produce something.

We have an order for 10.72 million doses.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-strategy-planning-insights/covid-19-purchasing-vaccines


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