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[–]sirbassist83 3685 points3686 points  (110 children)

Charleston-based U.S. District Court Judge Joseph Goodwin said... “Although Mr. Miller has no entitlement to parole, the record strongly suggests that he would already have been released, but for maintaining his objections to an unconstitutional policy.”

[–]tries4accuracy 154 points155 points  (0 children)

I just want to congratulate West Virginia on spending an inordinate amount of time, money and resources on something that should get the lawyers that argued in favor of it disbarred.

[–]Mick0331 2769 points2770 points  (92 children)

Fascism at its finest.

[–]EarsLookWeird 977 points978 points  (6 children)

Say our god is real and has power over you or we won't let you out that box

[–]Big-Shtick 396 points397 points  (68 children)

Does it still constitute ethnic cleansing if the religion at issue was the lack of religion?

Anyway, this is how ethnic cleansing works. During the genocide, Christian women and children were forced to convert to Islam and put into Islamic homes. People were arrested and forced to convert.

Why is this any different? It's a state-sanctioned inquisition.

[–]thespacetimelord 288 points289 points  (47 children)

During the genocide

which genocide?

[–]ComplaintNo6835 235 points236 points  (12 children)

The genocide. C'mon!

[–]RumoCrytuf 97 points98 points  (8 children)

Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?

[–]jopeters4 46 points47 points  (6 children)

That's the joke

[–]FL4TOUTTV 48 points49 points  (0 children)

Nested woosh

[–]AllHailTheZUNpet 12 points13 points  (3 children)

His post is also a joke. It's a quote from Blight from Batman Beyond.

[–]WillitsThrockmorton 51 points52 points  (0 children)

gestures vaguely

[–]RobotsGoneWild 52 points53 points  (2 children)

We did this in the Americas with Natives and Christianity.

[–]Owain-X 56 points57 points  (0 children)

Now he'll just get denied that parole because he dared to question the parole board's decision in court.

[–]xxxxx420xxxxx 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The US National Christian Church demands this heathen be kept in confinement until he repents

[–]Santos_L_Halper_II 3079 points3080 points  (224 children)

This should be a well-established, easily-followed no-brainer.

[–]jepvr 1485 points1486 points  (102 children)

The judges ruling said basically that. He said the plaintiff "easily meets his threshold burden of showing an impingement on his rights."

[–]Buckus93 846 points847 points  (101 children)

If this ever made it to the Supreme Court with the current judges, I'd expect a completely opposite ruling.

[–]MrMcKittrick 695 points696 points  (55 children)

Exactly. Alito and Thomas would do some sort of 4D gymnastics to evade the obvious and Roberts would shake a magic 8-ball to decide if it was his time to occasionally sound sane.

[–]yamiyaiba 387 points388 points  (21 children)

Exactly. Alito and Thomas would do some sort of 4D gymnastics to evade the obvious

"Being required to attend does not mean they they are required to believe any of it, therefore it's not a violation. It's a mandated part of the rehabilitative process, not inherently a religious endorsement." or some dumb shit like that

[–]khornflakes529 247 points248 points  (0 children)

Wow, that's so spot on I legit got angry for a second while reading it. Well done (I think)

[–]PagingDrRed 91 points92 points  (6 children)

That’s very similar to what was said when Mandatory AA Meetings for DUI Convictions were implemented. They said the “higher power” didn’t necessarily have to be God therefore AA wasn’t religious and not a violation of rights. It was a fascinating case. I wish I remembered the name.

ETA: it may have changed. My law classes are back from when dinosaurs ruled the earth

[–]13igTyme 163 points164 points  (10 children)

They would cite a law from 13th century England.

[–]JoshuaTheFox 47 points48 points  (4 children)

Which should be very un American

[–]kit630 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Hypothetically if they can force me to attend a church service I reserve the right to force them to make a bunch of gay wedding cakes 🎂

[–]v7h1h2 58 points59 points  (0 children)

Try again later… dammit

[–]powercow 72 points73 points  (7 children)

Oh im sure, they will claim that not being religious isnt a religion and therefore he isnt having his religious rights violated. and where a religious person might think they are going to hell if they make a website or a cake for a gay marriage, an athiest just thinks the religious shit is stupid and does not forsee actual harm. and no amount of preaching from AA would change him from being an athiest so its ok.

that or they will say the religious part of those services are just of historical significance, like having in god we trust on the money.

[–]Nezrite 53 points54 points  (1 child)

Which was removed in 1907, and then returned to the currency in 1955-57. Not that historic.

[–]powercow 23 points24 points  (0 children)

and specifically added due to the red scare and the idea that communists were all atheists.

They didnt rule that it was historically found on money, just that our government had historically used the phrase since the 1780s and was ruled "ceremonial deism" when they put it on money, despite the entire reason we did in the 50s, was to advertise we were different from the anti religion soviets. Ceremonial deism is just a fake term invented to get around the establishment clause. basically calling it deist to say it isnt any religion specific, and ceremonial to head off our complaints.

kinda like how our current supreme court just pulled the "major questions" doctrine right out their collective asses.

[–]aLittleQueer 29 points30 points  (1 child)

“Freedom of religion, not freedom from religion” is the rhetoric they use, and it’s remarkably easy to debunk. All you have to do is ask if they claim the right to be free from the dictates of [whichever specific religion they hate the most].

[–]mywan 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Problem is that the freedom of religion is part and parcel to the freedom of speech and press. The 1st Amendment is supposed to protect the autonomy of your opinion whether that be in a religious, political, or other context.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Without the freedom of expression there is no freedom of religion. The freedom of religion is simply a necessary part of the freedom of expression because freedom of expression cannot exist if freedom of religion doesn't exist, and visa versa.

[–]DrDerpberg 60 points61 points  (3 children)

Totally reasonable, you see, according to the recently invented doctrine of "we're basically all Christian anyways so it's all good."

[–]rikki-tikki-deadly 16 points17 points  (0 children)

♫...an atheist's just a Christian you haven't converted yet...♫ - Amy Coney Barrett

[–]Kataphractoi 317 points318 points  (92 children)

You'd think so, but American Christians are...special, sometimes.

[–]Santos_L_Halper_II 128 points129 points  (10 children)

I was raised Southern Baptist in Texas so yeah, couldn't agree more.

[–]DoctFaustus 103 points104 points  (9 children)

I'm amazed that anyone would want to be part of a church that was literally founded to support slavery. But, it's one of the largest in the country.

[–]Santos_L_Halper_II 86 points87 points  (3 children)

I'd say the majority of them don't know that. Of the ones who do, they either buy into the whole notion that "it was a different time," excuse it as "yeah but we're not all about that now," or, for the worst of them, it's a selling point.

[–]manimal28 38 points39 points  (2 children)

I'd say the majority of them don't know that.

I’d say the majority wouldn’t have a problem with it if they did.

[–]quantumcalicokitty 42 points43 points  (0 children)

Nope. They still teach it as the war of northern aggression, and now Florida is teaching children that slavery is good.

So...

[–]Buckus93 84 points85 points  (75 children)

All religions are a mass delusion. Prove me wrong.

[–]SloanDaddy 87 points88 points  (12 children)

The Satanic Temple is a religious organization and is not mass delusion.

Q.E.D.

[–]Buckus93 48 points49 points  (2 children)

I'm going to allow this.

[–]FnordBear 4054 points4055 points  (307 children)

So many people don't seem to understand or care that freedom of religion also means freedom from religion is a valid choice.

[–]N8CCRG 2036 points2037 points  (193 children)

Conservatives understand that. They just don't like it, and expect and rely on unequal enforcement of the law.

[–]the_busticated_one 984 points985 points  (142 children)

Conservatives understand that. They just don't like it, and expect and rely on unequal enforcement of the law.

When a religious group cannot attract people into the religion on a voluntary basis, and subsequently tries to enforce/inflict said religion on people by, e.g., attempting to mandate it legally, forcing people into programs like the one in the article, etc, it's an explicit and public admission that the religion has failed on its merits.

edit: a word.

[–]try-catch-finally 82 points83 points  (0 children)

It’s like gerrymandering. Or voting restrictions. Or insurrections.

They know they can’t/ won’t win legitimately on merit, so they go straight for cheating

[–]detahramet 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Also this is a religion that historically had followers forced to make a libation (sacrifice of wine or other offerings) to the Roman Pantheon on pain of death, to such an extent that Christian religious heads of the time had to make a statement saying that false conversions weren't a sin.

[–]WeeabooHunter69 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The only adults that generally convert are through rehab or programs like the one in this case. Everyone else is groomed from childhood, which is why they're so big on homeschooling and have returned to being a breeding cult.

Taking your kids to church is grooming

[–]fartsandprayers 21 points22 points  (2 children)

In the mind of a right-winger, when people they don't like exercise their freedom, it makes the right-winger less free. Basically, right-wingers see freedom as a zero-sum enterprise. In order for them to be more free, they have to make everyone else less free.

[–]AreWeCowabunga 88 points89 points  (11 children)

Hey, conservatives are real 'Murican patriots who love the constitution. Now, let's get some of that governmental establishment of religion going.

[–]cromulent_nickname 79 points80 points  (10 children)

Many conservatives love the constitution in the same way they love the bible; by not reading either one.

[–]SheriffComey 19 points20 points  (9 children)

You tryin to say Adam and Eve didn't get kicked out the Garden of Eden so I could have guns?!

Watch out now...

[–]brickout 99 points100 points  (4 children)

Not long ago, Mike Pence told a roaring crowd that it does NOT mean freedom from having other peoples' faith forced on them. It was truly chilling, as he meant it 100% and the crowd loved it. How much would you like to bet that he only meant one single faith...

[–]Wolfman01a 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Small town indiana here. Been fighting this fight since I was a kid. We athiests dont really demand anything other than to just be left alone. To the Christians this is UNACCEPTABLE.

[–]buntopolis 22 points23 points  (1 child)

They understand. They just don’t care.

[–]Deep90 8 points9 points  (0 children)

We need to stop letting conservatives use the word "Religion" when they mean "Christianity".

More often than not, their stances on "Religion" are really just stances on "Christianity". Huge difference.

[–]wut3va 120 points121 points  (11 children)

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Literally freedom from religion is enumerated first. It is the very first right in the Bill of Rights.

[–]SheriffComey 137 points138 points  (3 children)

Literally freedom from religion is enumerated. Freedom to practice religion is inferred.

[wraps arms around your shoulder]

What did you expect? "Welcome, sonny"? "Make yourself at home"? "Marry my daughter"? You've got to remember that these are just simple people. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.

[–]rpross3 36 points37 points  (1 child)

God bless Mel Brooks

[–]Aleucard 24 points25 points  (0 children)

And God Bless Gene Wilder.

[–][deleted] 117 points118 points  (51 children)

Lack of religion really, really freaks some people out. I'd actually compare it to the response to someone being asexual.

[–]WishIWasNeet2 126 points127 points  (18 children)

They can’t separate morality and religion that’s the problem. Plenty of religious people have done evil things. Plenty of atheists have done good things

[–]chi2ny56 44 points45 points  (3 children)

As an asexual person with no religious affiliation, I concur.

[–]Grace_Omega 9 points10 points  (5 children)

I think it’s the same root cause in both cases: sex and religion are things people invest a huge amount of their personal identity into, spend a lot of time, effort and money on, and often agonize over.

Somebody coming along and saying “I don’t believe in that/I’m not interested in that” feels like an attack regardless of how politely it’s worded. What the other person hears is “one of the fundamental tenets of your identity is fake and you’ve wasted your life caring about it so much, you fucking idiot.”

The happier and more confident the person seems in their position, the more threatening their adoption of that position seems, which is why a lot of religious people have this weird insistence on believing that atheists are secretly miserable without god. (Do ace people get this too? I imagine they might).

I think this is why the mere existence of atheism or asexuality (or to a lesser extent vegetarians, vegans, polyamorous people, people who don’t like the country you live in, sports factionalism, people who don’t care about cars or video games or books or money or alcohol…etc) is often met with such a knee-jerk hostility. To the insecure person, just stating that opinion feels like a literal attack on a core component of their personality.

(And actually now that I think about it this explains a lot of transphobia, because a lot of people put a lot of stock in living up to gender roles and expectations, and the existence of trans people and nonbinary people is taken as an implicit statement that all that effort was wasted on something that isn’t actually important after all)

[–]Morat20 35 points36 points  (2 children)

No, they just think their religious beliefs -- one of which is "Everyone has to obey my religion/should be part of my religion" override everyone else.

So they often feel their religious rights are being violated when you don't let them coerce people into joining their religion or making them obey their religious laws.

The fact that they can have all the religious beliefs they want but they can't make me adhere to them is something they have decided is wrong and should be changed.

They never consider that any other religion might trump theirs. After all God is on their side, so obviously only their specific variation of their religion will be in charge.

[–]lurker628 16 points17 points  (1 child)

This is the inherent incompatibility between proselytizing religions and the concept of freedom of religion.

[–]porncrank 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They very specifically deny that freedom from religion is a valid choice. They coined the phrase “freedom of religion doesn’t mean freedom from religion”.

[–]eeyore134 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And rights mean rights for all people, but they're against that, too. They know exactly what they're doing.

[–]pugdaddy78 311 points312 points  (17 children)

When I was a kid in juvenile detention if I refused to attend Sunday church in the facility they would make me stand outside my cell and take all my reading material

[–]etork0925 801 points802 points  (32 children)

This is supposed to be the land of freedom. Stop forcing your stupid religion on other people.

[–]Sedu 250 points251 points  (18 children)

The land of the free has a higher percent of its population actively incarcerated than any civilization in history. A comparison of current incarceration rates is linked below:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country

[–]mattinva 51 points52 points  (6 children)

To be fair, many of the early American settlers came to this land specifically looking for freedom...to force anyone around them to follow their religion. They didn't want religious freedom, just their religion to be top dog.

[–]AryaStarkRavingMad 39 points40 points  (0 children)

To be fair, the pilgrims didn't write the Constitution so what they came for means dick all.

[–]nfstern 271 points272 points  (14 children)

The state of West Virginia should be on the hook for millions of dollars in damages afaic.

[–]ComplaintNo6835 38 points39 points  (0 children)

I don't think they'll get millions pawning their coal mines

[–]zykezero 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The people who specifically enacted and knew of those policies should be on the hook.

[–]CAHallowqueen 187 points188 points  (20 children)

Why is America being held hostage by the Evangelical Christians?

[–]xSTSxZerglingOne 178 points179 points  (12 children)

Because they vote in 100% of elections 100% of the time.

[–]CAHallowqueen 38 points39 points  (8 children)

They aren’t that different from the Taliban.

[–]xSTSxZerglingOne 15 points16 points  (6 children)

Nope. But basically every situation where you have a Taliban-like entity, they never see themselves as the bad guys. They're fighting for what they believe in, so you best bring your A game against their religious fervor or otherwise be swept away by it.

[–]CAHallowqueen 9 points10 points  (5 children)

We have separation of church and state. They need to gtfo with their imaginary friends

[–]pimppapy 11 points12 points  (1 child)

We had separation of church and state. . . that disease is spreading further with every election where people sit back and do nothing

[–]Room_Temp_Coffee 223 points224 points  (12 children)

Miller is serving a one- to 10-year, nondeterminative sentence for breaking and entering

OK, what the actual fuck? Insurrectionists got less for breaking and entering the capitol

[–]RazerBladesInFood 149 points150 points  (8 children)

Judge said he would have been out by now without these pieces of shit trying to force religion on him too. Makes it even worse

[–]A_Martian_Potato 8 points9 points  (0 children)

My reaction as well. Up to 10 years for breaking and entering?

[–]slo1111 50 points51 points  (1 child)

There needs to be penalties against public leaders who incorporate such illegal things in their districts after the court slaps them down.

[–]rebelwanker69 32 points33 points  (1 child)

We need to start protesting churches and religious institutions. They've clearly shown time and time again they don't give a shit about the common law oftentimes engaging in illegal activities or harboring sexual predators. At some point we need to say enough is enough and start taking a stand. you can be religious all you want. But keep it to yourself

[–]thought_first 344 points345 points  (33 children)

Land of the free*

Exceptions include:

  • If you're a woman
  • If you're non-Christian, Atheist or Agnostic
  • If you're LGBTQIA+
  • etc;

[–]kottabaz 116 points117 points  (1 child)

Life (for fetuses), liberty (for established authority figures), and the pursuit of happiness (for the wealthy).

[–]James-W-Tate 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Earlier this year I heard this phrase:

The American Dream is making enough money so that America's problems don't apply to you.

It's disappointing how many opportunities I've had to use this so far.

[–]p_larrychen 26 points27 points  (0 children)

On the bright side, the judge ruled in favor of actual religious freedom this time

[–][deleted] 290 points291 points  (34 children)

Damn it! I wish conservatives would stop forcing their religious nonsense on citizens. Sorry we aren’t all stupid sheep who blindly follow an imaginary magical being.

[–]Good-Expression-4433 125 points126 points  (19 children)

I wish people knew more about the criminal justice system and how it heavily forces religious (Christian) brainwashing.

[–]xclame 58 points59 points  (17 children)

The simple fact that Christian prisoners (or the ones pretending or that don't care to play along) get to have "free time" to go to church while the Atheist or the ones that don't want to play along don't is messed up.

So either play along and risk being brainwashed because you are in a vulnerable situation so you get an hour extra of free time or stay locked up in your cage.

[–]xSTSxZerglingOne 17 points18 points  (2 children)

I always find it funny that conservatives push Christianity so hard while calling people sheep.

Considering Jesus' iconography as "The Good Shepherd" and many references to his flock of followers. You'd think they'd consider being sheep a good thing. And yet it's always thrown around in negative connotations.

[–]IDreamOfLoveLost 44 points45 points  (3 children)

Goodwin issued a preliminary injunction requiring West Virginia Division of Corrections and Rehabilitation officials to remove completion of a state-run and federally-funded residential substance abuse program from Miller’s parole eligibility requirements. The agency did not return a request for comment Thursday.

Yeah, you shouldn't be forcing people into faith-based programs as part of their parole. That is really fucked up.

[–]thespacetimelord 17 points18 points  (1 child)

And then deny parole when they don't want to participate.

N ow, they won't "force" people to participate. They'll switch to denying (many) people who don't participate parole. Everyone will be advised to just do it and shut up and no-one will cause a stink just like no-one had yet with this:

In his decision, Goodwin said although West Virginia’s “longstanding” program has never faced judicial scrutiny, other courts have found them to contain “such substantial religious components that governmentally compelled participation” violates the First Amendment.

[–]MansfromDaVinci 16 points17 points  (1 child)

ok, good, now do early releases for 'finding jesus'

[–]jepvr 148 points149 points  (9 children)

Remember when Republicans were up in arms about a guy maybe being forced to bake a cake with words on it for people he didn't like?

[–]DoctFaustus 58 points59 points  (6 children)

No words on the cake. Just a standard wedding cake. They just didn't like what they were going to use it for.

[–]MortimerDongle 46 points47 points  (5 children)

Yeah, that's where the ruling erred. Ruling that they can't be forced to put specific words or even designs on it, fine, but they seem to have decided that merely making a baked good is a form of speech. That's obviously a huge problem, because then you could say building a house is a form of speech and now you don't need to sell houses to black people

[–]Imaginary_Computer96 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Which is ultimately the real intent behind that ruling. It's laying the groundwork for a quiet return to segregation by exclusion through economic means and enforecement via the courts and millitarized police. That is the pathetic, fearful and warped world the conservatives need to force on the rest of us in order to feel safe and righteous, but even then they won't be satisfied because they have no capacity to feel such things. They also cannot understand why, because they have locked themesleves intovfalsely believing that their problem is external.

[–]the_jak 16 points17 points  (2 children)

I just hope people use this to discriminate against Christians. It’s against my moral values to provide any service or comfort to them.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

honestly that's what they already think is happening. being in small town USA is scary, you'd think every major city has signs that say "no whites, catholics, or straight folk" the way they talk about "the city" they never go to. People are just so detached from anything real, living in digital and geographical bubbles.

they vote against their own interests because someone tells them to. They'll vote for someone who says they'll cut school's funding, then they'll act all surprised and find a way to blame democrats or atheists or gen z or something. They're literally never wrong in their minds and if they are, they aren't because it's actually your fault.

[–]Long_Before_Sunrise 68 points69 points  (1 child)

That was different. The baker was on thier team (in a honorary position until they decide his version of Christianity is the wrong one).

[–]fartsandprayers 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Makes sense that the people crying about "indoctrination" want to indoctrinate everybody.

[–]JcbAzPx 33 points34 points  (1 child)

Forcing someone to become a christian isn't going to save their soul. It is only going to damn your own.

[–]justlogmeon 27 points28 points  (11 children)

In the “Big Book,” the foundational document of these programs, “Chapter 4: We Agnostics” tells atheists and agnostics that they are “doomed to alcoholic death” unless they “seek Him.” The chapter characterizes non-believers as “handicapped by obstinacy, sensitiveness, and unreasoning prejudice.”

Welcome to the christian taliban,

[–]No_Influence_666 13 points14 points  (3 children)

JHC this had to make it to court?

[–]Slogstorm 35 points36 points  (10 children)

What do people here think about "in god we trust" on courtroom walls, behind the judge? Not sure if this is normal or something that's only used in movies?

[–]Vallkyrie 130 points131 points  (1 child)

It's bullshit that mostly started in the 1950s as a propaganda move against the 'godless Soviets'. It has no place anywhere in government or money in my opinion.

[–]SanityIsOptional 20 points21 points  (0 children)

The amount of damage McCarthy did to this country with his FUD...

[–]beanthebean 6 points7 points  (3 children)

The state legislature just passed a law requiring for "In god we trust" to be displayed prominently in all schools and government buildings in the last session! Absolutely par for the course.

[–]BarnacleBayler 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Republicans want you to suffer

[–]Aazadan 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Very happy for this ruling, years ago I lived in West Virginia and struggled to feed myself. Would get some community assistance besides food stamps and it went through a local church. So I would have to pray to their god as part of getting fed.

Of course the other option was just starving instead.

[–]wabashcanonball 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Programming is exactly the right word.

[–]Sighborgninja 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Religious indoctrination is evil. If your religion is so wonderful and the "true" religion, people will find it themselves.

[–]yarash 6 points7 points  (0 children)

"The Parole Board Panel interviewed Miller three times and declined to grant him parole. Miller alleged that his failure to complete the program contributed significantly to the Board’s decision to deny him parole, something the state did not dispute."

And they will probably continue to deny him parole ESPECIALLY because of this.

[–]furyousferret 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I remember in Marine Corps Boot Camp, the recruits went to church every Sunday. I and a few others didn't the first week and we basically cleaned, did pushups, suffered while others were in church.

Next week we all picked one and went....

[–]MumrikDK 6 points7 points  (1 child)

It's fascinating how some countries have a state religion, but almost nobody pays attention to it, and other countries don't have a state religion, but somehow a religion is a huge fucking deal all over the place.

[–]InfluenceTrue4121 6 points7 points  (1 child)

How about offering addicts evidence based treatment

[–]Speculawyer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I can't believe that this was even questioned.

[–]ReddtCanHarassMyNutz 15 points16 points  (0 children)

It's tiring that these morons have to be continuously guarded against. Give a religious loon an inch and they'll make sure you live in hell on earth. Fuck's sake religion is literally Humanities Cancer.

[–]CaPineapple 21 points22 points  (14 children)

I’m so tired of certain Christians forcing their version of the religion on everyone. If your religion allows you to do some of the heinous things that have happened throughout history and in recent days, it’s not a religion I care to give any credence too. Might as well be Nazis with all of this blood on their hands. Reminder of the very Christian like things they have done in history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence

https://churchandstate.org.uk/2016/03/the-right-wing-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-christian-atrocities-so-lets-talk-about-christian-atrocities/ https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/cambridge-world-history-of-violence/christian-violence-against-heretics-jews-and-muslims/2D75D3A860B9F134807826D12EB5FA76

But they don’t wanna talk about that.

[–]lesbianinabox 10 points11 points  (1 child)

So happy to see this! I am an ex-addict. While I was never arrested or had any criminal consequences, all of my “recovery programs” required 12 step meetings which are absolutely religious. They can claim your higher power can be a doorknob all they want. The Lord’s Prayer and the whole 12 step program is inherently religious.