First, ahmadiyya are good people I'm sure and violence/hate is not an answer.

However, this seems crazy. Their leader made so many errors, that I can do better him as a regular muslim (I wont at least make predictions that wont come true). To be honest, I understand/have empathy for shia as they just think they love the prophet's family and recognize that the prophet was the last prophet (e.g. no-one claims their imams got new stuff from god, but just followed what was given Muhammed(pbuh). I leave it unto Allah to judge between them).

But ahmadiyya believe the prophet was not the last. So many contradictions in their books. Dont follow the quran. etc... I just want to know how can they really believe they are following the truth. Like are ahmadiyya are aware of the contradictions, false prophecies, quran etc...?

For those of us born and brought up as Ahmadis, this post might not be so interesting. We've seen too much Sunni propaganda to take it seriously at all. There are a number of Sunni Muslims interested in the sub these days and one of them () has been particularly unwilling to accept that Sunni Muslim scholars can ever lie about Ahmadiyya Islam. They also seem to assign lies exclusively with Ahmadiyya Islam, so they don't want any "Ahmadi analysis" so to say (makes one wonder what they say to Ahmadi Muslims when they say the same back to them, i.e. that lies are exclusively from Sunni Islam and they don't want any "Sunni analysis"). Without further ado, here is a fatwa from the famous Islamqa website:

For those of us who might be unaware, Islamqa is a famous (and very old, since 1996) website that answers questions in the light of Sunni Wahhabi Islam. It is supervised by Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid, a prominent Sunni scholar in Saudi Arabia.

There is a lot the link says that is problematic, but for the purpose of this analysis let's take a singular statement the website makes about Ahmadiyya Islam:

They allow alcohol, opium, drugs and intoxicants.

Most absurd, right?

Outright lie? Of course.

But our Sunni friends do not agree with simply stating the obvious. They require proof that this statement is patently false.

Now obviously they'll also jump hoops, do a general number of mental acrobatics and what not claiming that the website meant this and phrased this and that it is an absolute genius deal. But they asked proof that Ahmadiyya Islam goes to the contrary, so one has to beat the dead horse for it.

Here is Mirza Ghulam Ahmed stating otherwise:

Unlike the Gospel, the Quran does not permit its followers to drink alcohol, so long as they are not intoxicated by it. Rather, it forbids its consumption completely. Otherwise, you would be lost from the path that leads to God and His converse, nor would God cleanse such a person of their impurities. The Quran says that such things are the invention of Satan and you should guard yourself against them. (source: )

2.

All those wealthy persons who consume alcohol also carry the sins of the people who intoxicate themselves under their influence. You who claim to possess understanding! Know that this world is not eternal, so take hold of yourselves. Eschew all immoderation and abstain from every type of intoxicant. It is not alcohol alone that ruins a person. Opium, ganja, charas, bhang, tarhi,[63] and all other addictions are similarly destructive. They ruin the mind and destroy lives. So, shun all such substances. I cannot understand why one would choose to indulge in these intoxicants when, year on year, they claim the lives of thousands of addicts[64] — not to mention the torment of the hereafter. (source: )

Can one present more references from Mirza Ghulam Ahmed and/or other Ahmadiyya sources that list the same fact over and over? Of course.

Would any proof suffice for our Sunni Muslim friends here to accept that their scholars lie through their teeth when they speak about Ahmadiyya Islam? Lets see, though personally I do not have high hopes for the religiously inclined minds.

Edit: After thought, but wouldn't it be fun if Ahmadiyya Islam actually permitted alcohol and various other intoxicants. One could go buy a bunch of weed or shrooms for "religious reasons". So many people might convert to Ahmadiyya Islam even. Masroor sahab, if you are reading this, forget what Mirza Ghulam Ahmed said. You can grow this thing significantly. This is the era of legalization. Take a positive step and boom your little movement can actually multiply... and fast.

this website was created by an ex muslim and it is filled with claims that debunk alot of ahmadi beliefs. whats crazy is he doesn’t just make up things he usually has somekind of source as evidence. he uses news papers, ahmadis own books, other people’s essays and etc. Clearly alot of time and effort has been put into this website is but my question is; is this website a major threat to ahmadiyya, since it can certainly weaken many people’s faith?

Why doesn’t the jamat address the claims and debunk them? i see no ahmadis talking about this website or doing anything to fight back.

Hey everyone, I've been thinking lately about something and I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Do you think that the young ahmadis living in first world countries like USA & Canada might eventually transition towards Sunni Islam or even atheism? It seems like lots of kids nowadays have no interest ahmadiya and are either becoming atheists or just mentally leaving the religion. The next generation doesn’t even care enough to defend their own beliefs and to make things worse they aren’t even aware of who mirza gulam ahmad is. I have a strong feeling generational shift will certainly arrive in families who have been living in these countries for a while now. What do you guys think?

The following material is referenced from Maktubat-e-Ahmadiyya (Letters of Ahmad) Volume 5, Number 3, published on February 18, 1929 compiled by Yaqoob Ali Irfani Sahib and printed in Qadian.

About these letters, Irfani Sahib has said in the preface, and I quote:

"I feel ashamed in having to say that it is sad that until now, there are very few admirers in the jamaat who fully appreciate the value of these invaluable gems"

One of these gems on page 166 is letter number 273 written by the Promised Messiah on October 31st, 1899 addressed to Munshi Rustam Ali Sahib, whereby he is trying to seek Munshi Sahib's help in finding a match for his companion Maulvi Mohammad Ali Sahib.

I will reproduce the entire letter here, translated in English by me as best as I could. A link to the urdu screenshot will follow below the main post.

Enveloped Letter Number 273.

In the name of Allah, the gracious, the merciful, We praise and send blessings on his benificient prophet (Mohammad). 31 October, 1899.

My dear brother Munshi Rustam Ali Sahib, Assalamo-Allekum wa Rehmatullah Wa Barakatohoo.

Received your kind letter. Because it is learnt from your writing that the office superintendent from whose daughter there is a matrimonial relationship request, is somewhat bad-tempered and easily agitable, so it seems appropriate that you should discuss these things with him openly that the relationship is sought with the younger girl. And that the nikah will be performed with the observance of Shariah(written in bold for emphasis). There will be no extravagance. (If) there are noble rituals in the family regarding dresses and jewelry, then they should let us know themselves, so these are prepared(accordingly). Also seek a firm statement from them that they will stick to it.

And also it is important to point out that if I send a woman from this place (Qadian), she will be a barber. And she cannot come alone because she will be a young woman. Her husband will go with her. The cost of their services will be 7 to 8 rupees. And for two people, the travel expense for traveling by horse carriage will be another two rupees and the train ticket for two people will cost another six to seven rupees. As such, I will have to spend about 20 rupees. However if you could offer 3 to 4 rupees to a woman from Ambala such that she inspects the girl and gives an honest description, that will help with economy of expenses. We (I) are willing to spend so much but fear that this doesn't turn into the Gurdaspur episode where after all the expenses, we were refused.

Please try and look for a female barber who seems honest. Send her after giving her some money. She should be able to describe the complete physical appearance (of the candidate girl). i.e. How do her eyes look? How is her nose? How is the neck? i.e is it slender or short? How is her body? Is she plump or skinny (weak)? How is the face? Is it proportioned like a book, or is it round? Does she have a small head or a big one? What about her height? Is she tall or short? Are the eyes light colored or black? Is her complexion white, wheatish or black? Does she have smallpox marks on her face or is it blemish free?

Meaning, all the attributes for which a woman has to be sent from here, should be described by the local woman. And she should describe these attributes honestly. This will benefit us. Because I am overly concerned about these things, please pay her on my behalf. I could still spend 20 rupees and send some woman from here with her husband but I feared that we might meet the same fate as Gurdaspur where we had a half-baked settlement (eventual refusal). If you were to pay attention to this matter then you will be able to find a wise and honest woman who is a (good) judge of beauty and ugliness, in the city of Ambala. You should seek such a woman from discussing the matter with someone.

And it is incorrect that my brother Maulvi Mohammad Ali Sahib, has a prior wife. A long time ago he divorced her, now there is no woman.

After full investigation, please write back promptly.

Was Salam.Khaksaar, Ghulam Ahmad.

I feel that the letter is self-evident in identifying what is critical in seeking a girl for marriage. I will just give some perspective to a couple of items here.

First of all, why the insistence on a female barber? I cannot think of any other reason other than the fact that female barbers having spent their lives providing female grooming services, had a hands-on knowledge of female anatomy, presumably unmatched by a woman in any other capacity. They would be able to provide the information the promised Messiah was looking for, in a much more accurate way than a lay person. I will let you do your own analysis of the situation.

Second, Maulvi Mohammad Ali was not a young man at the time of this Nikah, he had already been divorced a long time ago, so why seek the younger of the daughters of the Superintendent? I can only guess that young girls were most sought after and it is consistent with the pattern exhibited in other marriages of the family.

Third, why is all this information expected to be transmitted back to the promised Messiah and not Maulvi Mohammad Ali in private? Does a third person really have to know and be able to pass judgement on the detailed physical attributes of one's future wife? Beats me.

Fourth, that laundry list of what to look for in the girl by sending in an 'expert' in female anatomy for inspections, is so sickening, I felt like puking. But that is probably just me, it must have increased others in faith.

I want to conclude by saying that perhaps our jamaat should actively encourage our young women to take up the profession of female barbers and provide their services free of charge to the membership, so the success rate of ahmadiyya weddings can improve. I see the aunties are doing a pretty pathetic job of evaluating the most important attributes of prospective brides. I also suggest that our Rishta Nata website should have a spreadsheet to voluntarily fill in all these physical attributes which could then be attested by the local sadr sahiba or the family physician.

In the end, I would love for the aplogists to provide an alternate spin to this letter so that all those of us who are feeble of heart and mind can regain the state of peace which was disturbed by my blasphemy.

Bit of a lengthy post (due to posting a letter and it's translation).

I've seen this appear online on Twitter. As far as I can tell, it is genuine (I have personally seen letters like this previously, as well as WhatsApp circulars etc).

What bugs me is how we are acting like the church and basically stating that if we donate money, names will be sent for special prayers (apologies, this letter does not state this. However I stand by my orinail point as Jamaat has been known in the past to request donations/money in exchange for donators names being sent to the Khalifa for prayers)

There's also caveats like if husbands want their wives/kids' names added on to a plaque/memorial, this will cost a bit more at 500 Euros, however if the kids are old (I'm assuming, if they are earning members), then their names can only be added if they pay the 2500 Euros. Also, can a native Urdu speaker deduce what the cash is for? Is it for another Mosque? A building?

Furthermore, I'm sure if other sects of Islam did this, Ahmadis would be pointing at the crass nature of accepting money in-line for prayers, but we do it all the time. We even go as far as stating that if you pay 10% of your estate, you get to be buried in a special graveyard.

Anyhow, the Urdu of the letter is here. The translation is also below this:

06.03.2022

مکرم ومحترم لوکل امیرصاحب/ صدرصاحب جماعت/سیکٹری صاحب مال

آلسسلام عَلیکم ورَخمۂٔلل و بَرَكَاٹھ

أمید ہے آپ بغضلہ تعالی بخیریت ہوں گے۔ اور جماعتی کاموں میں مصروف ہونگے۔ الله تعالی مقبول

خدمات دینیہ بجا لائے کی توفیق عطا فرمائے۔ آمین۔

الحمد الله کہ پیارے آقا حضور انورایدہ الله تعالیٰ نے جلسہ گاہ کے لیے جگہ خریدنے کے حوالے سے

جماعت جرمنی کواجازت فرمانے کے ساتھ 10 ملین یورو کا فنڈ اکٹھا کرنے کی ہدایت فرمائی ہے۔

دعا کی درخواست کے ساتھ احباب و خواتین کو فنڈ اکٹھا کرنے کی تحریک کریں۔ جواحباب جلسہ گاہ فنڈ

کی مد میں -/2500 یورو کی ادائیگی کریں گے أن کے ناموں کی فہرست بغرض دعا یادگار کے طور پر

تختی پر لکھی جائےگی۔ نیز جو احباب چاہتے ہیں کہ ان کے بیوی بچوں کے نام بھی اس کے ساتھ لکھے

جائیں تو انہیں اس کے لیے پانچ سو یورو مزید اس مد میں ادا کرنے ہوں گے البتہ جن کے بچے بڑے ہیں

اور برسر روزگار ہیں ان کے نام والد کے نام کے ساتھ نہیں لکھے جائیں گے برسر روزگار بچوں کو الگ

سے ادائیگی کرنی چاہیے۔ جو احباب -/2500 یورو کی ادائیگی نہ کرسکیں أن کو برکت کی خاطر اس

تحریک میں حسب توفیق ضرور شامل کریں۔

دعا کریں کہ الله تعالی ہماری مدد فرمائے اور اس معاملے میں تمام مراحل بخیر و خوبی انجام کو پہنچیں۔

الله تعالیٰ تمام قربانی کرنے والے مخلصین کے اموال ونفوس میں بے انتہا برکتیں ڈالے۔ آمین۔

جزاکم اللم

وَالَْلامْ

سرت خاکسار

( عبداللہ واگس ھاوزر) ‎٢‏

امیر جماعت احمدیہ جرمنی طارق محمود

نیشنل سیکرٹری مال جماعتِ احمدیہ جرمنی

The translation is below (apologies, it's from Google, but you can get the gist):

Dated 06.03.2022

Honorable Local Amir Sahib / President Sahib Jamaat / Secretary Sahib Mall

Peace be upon you and blessings and blessings

I hope you will be blessed by Allah Almighty. And will be engaged in party work. God Almighty is acceptable

May God grant you the ability to perform religious services. Amen.

Praise be to Allaah. Dear Lord Anwar, may Allaah bless him and grant him peace

The party has instructed Germany to raise 10 million euros in funding.

Encourage friends and women to raise funds with a prayer request. Friends Meeting Fund

Will pay 2500 euros in the name of - a list of their names as a prayer memorial

It will be written on the board. Also, friends who want their wives and children to write their names with it

If they go, they will have to pay five hundred euros more for this, except for those whose children are older

And they are employed. Their names will not be written with the father's name

Should pay from For those who can't afford to pay 25 2500 / - for the sake of blessings

Be sure to include in the movement as much as you can.

May Allah Almighty help us and may all the stages in this matter come to a successful conclusion.

May Allah Almighty bestow immense blessings on the property and people of all the sacrificial devotees. Amen.

(Abdullah Wags Hauser)

Amir Jamaat Ahmadiyya Germany Tariq Mahmood

National Secretary of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat of Germany

Is there a document, book or anything (maybe on this subreddit) that has been created to gather a list of arguments of why Ahmadiyya is wrong? with arguments/proof from the quran etc?

I'm sure I have seen some similar posts a long time ago so there must be some.

When I started questioning ahmadiyyat, i started to write down everything that bothered me and why it was wrong in my opinion. To make my point clear to others I wanted this all written down with quotations from the quran. So if there was a statement that i could proof wrong with the quran, i would write that down. I was wondering if there already is a document like that online.

He sent me to a website and honestly I don’t want to look past anything as they cite hadith and Quran but I’m not as far into Islam as others and would like more experienced Muslims to provide their opinion.

I concede, people do not reject Ahmadiyya for traditional Islam because they read one reddit post. These things take time, conversation, experience, unpacking, etc. Its not fair to expect someone whose grandfather was unjustly murdered by a mob in Pakistan for his beliefs to suddenly join the same theological persuasion of the mob that killed him.

But the work has to start somewhere. This post is to illustrate that Ahmadiyya has no historic roots in traditional Islam. In the past, whenever I have confronted Ahmadi missionaries with the fact that the very historic figures they respect or even cite as proofs for Ahmadiyya didn't actually agree with Ahmadiyya, they will hastily say “They made mistakes”. As they understand it, everyone throughout history made the same exact mistake.

However, for some who are in the questioning phase of leaving Ahmadiyya or who are more strictly willing to follow the facts, it may serve as an interesting data point to help intellectually arm them against the murabbis.

The Premise

In the recent conversation pertaining to how Ahmadis should not read orthodox Muslim Quran commentaries, I came across where Mirza Masroor Ahmad is asked "if a non-Ahmadi Muslim asks an Ahmadi to recommend a tafsir book written by a non-Ahmadi scholar, which tafsir should be recommended to them".

He replies saying that Tafsir of classical scholars are fine and then proceeds to list three:

1. Tafsir al-Tabari - By Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, in Iraq, 883CE

2. Mafatih-ul-Ghaib aka Tafsir al-Kabir - By Imam Razi in present-day Afghanistan, 1150 – 1209 Ce

3. Al-Jami' li-Ahkam al-Quran - By Imam Qurtubi, present-day Spain, 1214- 1273

And then cites three that are good and worthy of being studied:

1. Tafsir Jalalain - By Jalal al-Din Mahalli and Suyuti, Egypt, late 1300s, early 1400s.

2. Tafsir ibn Kathir - Written by Imam Ismail Ibn Umar Ibn Kathir, Syria, mid 1300s

3. Tafsir ar-Ruh al-Ma'ani - by Mahmud al-Alusi, Iraq, Mid 1800s

That’s a wide spectrum of geography (Spain, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt) and time (800CE to mid 1800s). Also note, all of these were written before Ahmadiyya existed, which means there could not be an anti-Ahmadiyya bias.

It stands to reason...

If Ahmadiyya is correct, it stands to reason that its core doctrines would not have originated with MGA, as that would imply that Islam was always understood incorrectly for one thousand three hundred years until MGA. Everyone got it wrong since day one throughout all of history. Instead, it is argued, Ahmadiyya was the original Islam that early Muslims believed but then Sunnism (and others) corrupted the faith over time.

This is why MGA was needed to restore it.

…Back to the Tafsir works

If that is true, we would expect to find the core doctrines of Ahmadiyya present in at least one of these six works. Remember, these are works Mirza Masroor specifically cited as fine to read or even good and worthy of study.

Lets explore two doctrines that are foundational to Ahmadiyya doctrine:

1. The belief that 'Esa (AS) died, as argued from Surah Aal Imran verse 55/56 (3:55/56).

2. The belief that "Seal of the Prophets" means there can be new prophets, Surah Ahzab verse 40/41 (33:40/41).

My Observations

What you will see is, all cited Quran commentaries present the historic Muslim beliefs, not the Ahmadiyya beliefs. The only difference is in how they explain them, but the conclusions are one.

Typically, Ahmadi missionaries will show you the statement that "X person said mutawaffi means 'to die' in the context of 3:55". But in the broader context, we can see that anyone who says this was referring to the death that happens after his return, not a death that already happened.

Also, whenever people say that Khaatam means “height of character”, they say so in the context of multiple qiraat of the Quran, where Khaatim (with the kasra on the taa) meaning “last of the prophets”.

If the multiple qira’at is a new concept to you, as a primer...but honestly this is a big topic and way out of the scope for this article. Super short summary, there are multiple valid ways to read the Quran which originate from the Prophet ص himself. There is no one "True Quran", but multiple valid variants. If you went 1300 years into the past, the variant of the Quran in Makkah/Madina would not be what we typically read from today. I personally own two different qira'a styles.

Tafsir al-Tabari

Regarding 3:55 (), Imam al-Tabari says the interpreters of the Quran are of two opinions:

1. Those who say that wafaa means "sleep", ie, he was taken and raised to the heavens while in a state of sleep. He quotes several people who say this, including Al-Hasan al-Basri who said "Indeed, Jesus did not die" - If you want to check yourself, it’s the section in red.

2. Others refer to tawaffi's linguistic meaning, which is a synonym for "taking" and references the two words: قابض and أخذ, both of which mean "to take/seize". This group also says he will not die until he comes to face the anti-Christ (Dajjal).

Both views say he will descend from the heavens towards the end of time. This is a time when there are many breaks from expected orderly phenomena. I am aware that Ahmadiyya apologetics have an explanation of what “descend” means, but while that might be what the apologists mean, the question is did Imam Al-Tabari mean that - and from reading this, he provided no indication that it was a reference to a grand metaphor.

Regarding 33:40 (), regarding the section “Seal of the Prophets”, he simply writes “Meaning, last of them”. Simple.

Mafatih-ul-Ghaib

Regarding 3:55 (), he says there are two opinions (different from above)

1. One group takes the explicit meaning of tawaffi meaning “death” and rejects the method of "advancing and moving back", wherein if actions "X and Y", Y happened first, then X. So he understands "tawaffi" to mean die, but not at the hands of those who were planning to kill him. So he will complete his [natural] life. He was then raised to the heavens by the angels. He says this was the view of Al-Hasan Al-Basri and Ibn 'Abbas.

2. One group employs the method "advancing and moving back", meaning they understand "tawaffi" to mean die, but the latter action (the raising) happens first, then the death of 'Esa (AS) happens towards the end of time.

Regarding 33:40 () He writes that had there been another prophet to come, it would imply that the Muhammad Prophet SAAWS left some advice or clarification unsaid, such that someone else was needed after him. As for the one whom there is no prophet after, he would be more concerned about his Ummah, so he strove harder to guide us, which is what the Prophet SAAWS did.

Regarding “and Allah is aware of all things”, he writes that in [Allah’s knowledge] is the fact that there is no prophet after him, so there needed to be perfection in the shari’ah.

Al-Jami' il Ahkam al-Quran

Regarding 3:55 () he writes:

• This work employs the method "advancing and bringing back". This is basically when the Quran says "X and Y", but Y happens first, then X. So the "raising to the heavens" happens first, then his death happens later after his descent. This is stated explicitly.

• It also quotes Al-Hasan Al-Basri that tawaffi is a synonym for قابض (ie, taking) and that he was taken to the heavens without dying - again, stated explicitly.

• It cites the view that this is the tawaffi of sleep and that he has not died.

• It cites the unsourced story that 'Esa (AS) asked his disciplines who is willing to be killed in my stead and will be with me in Jannah and a young man volunteered. This is commonly referred to as the replacement theory.

Regarding 33:40 (), he starts off discussing the grammar of the verse, and then says there is one qira’a (reading) that has the fatha over the taa (Khaatam), which would mean highest character. He says the qira’a of the majority is with a kasra under the taa (Khaatim) such that it means there is no prophet after him.

This also offers an interesting window into the past. In modern times after the famous 1924 Egyptian printing of the Quran the vast majority use the qira'a with the fatha, not the kasra, but Imam Qurtubi was writing during a time when that was not the case.

Note: Ahmadi missionaries would be quick to use the first part of this explanation, which is clearly a valid meaning, but should also accept the second part which references the majority qira'aa which says Khaatim al-Nabyyin (with the kasra). Failing to do so is intellectually dishonest and rejecting valid Quran. Also, Mirza Masroor Bashirudeen Mahmud pretty much acknowledged that Khaatim would mean "last of the prophets", but likely was not aware that other qira'at even existed.

Tafsir Jalalain

This is the simplest.

Regarding 3:55 (), it says tawaffi means "Take you" (قابضك) and "Raise you to me" means take you to the heavens without death.

Regarding 33:40 (), it says there is no man after him such that he will be a prophet. In a qira'a with the fatha over the taa (the most common variant of the Quran) it means he is the sealer of the prophets. It says regarding the last part of the verse "God is aware of all things", among which includes that he knows there is no prophet after him (Muhammad), and when 'Esa (AS) descends he will govern/rule according to the shari'ah of Muhammad SAAWS.

Side note: It was suggested to me by a not-so-recent-ex-Ahmadi that, in his study, one of the reason why people cite the shari'ah along with the finality so much is because while modern Ahmadis debate their topics, historic Muslims asked how, given that 'Esa (AS) would return, which was widely known, and the shariah was complete, whether 'Esa (AS) dictates would be shari'ah for us. The two Jalaals seem to be referencing this point here.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Regarding 3:55 (), he says there are two views:

• Qatāda (a famous scholar) and others said this is the same “moving forward” and “advancing”, where the raising to the heavens happens first, then the death of ‘Esa (AS) and that this is what Ibn ‘Abbas means when he says Tawaffi means “To die”.

• Others say this is "not the wafaa of death", but the "wafaa of sleep" and give reference to where tawaffi does not mean “death”, as in . Later in the writes mutawaffika is the wafaa of sleep, and he (Jesus) was raised [to Allah] in a state of sleep.

Regarding the section on the “raising”, he quotes a hadith from Al-Hasan al-Basri who said that the Prophet SAAWS says to a group of Jews “Verily, Jesus has not died, [rather] he was raised [and will be sent to you] before the yowm al-qiyama”.

Regarding 33:40 () He cites a few hadith which say the same basic thing, the first is where the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم says he has many names, and lists Muhammad, Ahmad, Al-Mahi, Al-Hashir, Al-Aqib, and explains this to mean “The one whom there is no prophet after” - This is the explanation of the Prophet, not Ibn Kathir.

Note: This hadith is explained by Ahmadi missionaries by saying "the one whom there is no prophet after" is an interpolation. Assuming that is true, the word 'aqib itself means "last/final/end".

Ruh al-Ma'ani

3:55 () Similar to Tafsir ibn Kathir, he cites Qatāda who said “the raising to the heavens” happens first, then Death.

He cites a hadith (same as Ibn Kathir) which says “Verily, Jesus has not died, [rather] he was raised [and will be sent to you] before the yowm al-qiyama”.

33:40 () He writes that had there been a prophet after Muhammad, it would have been his son Ibrahim. He cites a hadith that the Prophet SAAWS said had he lived, he would have been a truthful prophet.

He writes that the Prophet SAAWS was compensated for not having prophets after him like Bani Israel by having his Ahl al-Bayt (the prophetic family) and then cites a hadith that ends with “there is no prophet after me”.

Conclusion

To start, I fully understand, if your family personally experienced violence by morons, that's a pretty strong barrier to even consider that maybe Ahmadiyya is wrong. I don't have a quick answer for you. That's really painful and will take time and patience.

The very 6 tafsir works that Mirza Masroor calls "fine" or "worthy of study" do not agree with the core Ahmadi doctrines. This suggests that core Ahmadi doctrines did not exist prior to MGA.

As I said, if pressed the apologists will say "They made mistakes". I have to concede, this is possibly true...but it at least demonstrates that across a breadth of geography and time, across groups of scholars that even Masroor himself validated did not express Ahmadiyya doctrines.

And at a minimum, this should be embarrassing...

Having done my own research, I'll go further: Across time, space, political allegiance, or theological trend, even where they sharply differed on other issues, classical Muslims didn't disagree here. I've checked. But don't trust me, I encourage you to not trust me. Do your own research on or any other method and see for yourself. Just one request: Don't be satisfied with decontextualized quotes where "Imam Malik said Mutawaffika means death", and leave it at that.

I hope this serves to show that Ahmadiyya doctrines were never held by classic Muslims. This means that the core doctrines of Ahmadiyya were unknown to the Muslims, companions or the Prophet himself. And I hope Allah lowers the barriers for you, and forgive us for crimes we have done against them.

May Allah guide us all!

Some Sunnis on this sub deny Ahmadiyya persecution, sweeping it under the rug in typical fashion to all minority abuses in Sunni communities. Even claim "Islamophobia" when they are presented the oppressive teachings of their own theology (). As if such teachings don't exist and nobody passionately supports their implementation.

This post is wholly solely to condemn such Sunnis. It is despicable and evil to deny the violent persecution of minority groups in an attempt to free one's religion from blame. It is downright evil to deny the murders, the violence and the oppression on a people. It is cheap and pathetic to deny the cause of such evil.

Sunni Islam should learn to own it's faults. Gaslighting victims and making them out for "Islamophobes" is the cheapest, most hideous trick they ever pulled.

For the Sunnis that try to make Ahmadiyya persecution sound like a "Pakistan only" issue or outlier. Here are some observations I cited recently (edit: this list is obviously not exhaustive).

Ghana, Africa ()

Bangladesh, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia ()

And please, if you do not wish to empathize and engage constructively, better not engage/communicate at all. There have been enough gaslighting Sunnis throughout the history of the existence of Ahmadiyya. Your existence or lack of it makes no difference if you are to continue the same tradition. There will always be another Sunni who can come up to ignorantly claim that neither Sunni Muslims nor Sunni Islam oppresses minority groups.

And it's not just about Ahmadis either, Sunni communities throughout history have oppressed religious minorities and are still unleashing violence on them to this day. Denying does not help the victims in any way whatsoever.

While the messiah of Ahmadiyya has preached many good teachings, his writing is also riddled with abhorrent remarks about women, leaps of logic, mental gymnastics, and intolerant or factually incorrect statements. Here are some examples of the latter. Feel free to share more in the comments.

WOMEN HAVE LOWER MENTAL POWERS

page 314 - Universal experience has shown that man is superior to woman in physical and mental powers. There are exceptions, but exceptions don’t make the rule....Just as Islam does not approve of a woman marrying without the consent of her guardian, i.e., her father, brother, or other near male relative, likewise it does not approve of a woman to separate from her husband on her own. It orders even greater care in case of divorce, and enjoins recourse to the authorities to protect her from any harm she may do to herself on account of her lack of understanding.

REFORM "YOUR WOMEN" | THEY ARE THE ROOT OF IDOL WORSHIP

page 324 - If you desire to reform your own selves, it is essential that you also seek to reform your women. Women are the root of idol worship, for they are naturally devoted to decoration and ornaments. This is why idolatry started with women

IT IS OK TO MARRY ORPHAN GIRLS UNDER YOUR CARE

page 37 - There is no harm in your marrying orphan girls who are under your care, but if you apprehend that you may not be fair in dealing with them because they are orphans, then marry women who have parents and relations to be watchful of them, who would respect you and concerning whom you would be careful.

YOU ARE A WORM AND GOD WILL BE HAPPY TO DESTROY YOU

page 10 - Thus if you have an iota of worldly adulteration in your intentions, all your worship is in vain. In such a case you do not follow God. Rather you follow Satan. Never ever expect that when you are in such a condition God will help you. Rather in this condition you are a worm of the earth and soon you will perish just as worms of the earth do. And God shall not be in you. Rather He will be happy to destroy you.

5 + 0 = 50

page 8 - I had initially intended to write fifty parts of this book, but then instead of fifty I contented myself with five, and since the difference between five [5] and fifty [50] is merely a dot [0], that promise was fulfilled by the five parts.

INSECTS ARE BORN WITHOUT PARENTS LIKE ADAM

page 13 - We observe daily that thousands of insects infect impure and stale foods and are generated in unwashed wounds. Dirty linen secretes hundreds of lice and all sorts of worms are generated inside a person's stomach. It cannot be said that all these come from outside or can be observed descending from heaven.

page 29 - When thousands of insects are born by themselves during the rainy season, and Adamas was also born without parents, it is no proof of Jesus’ eminence if he, too, was born in the same manner.

page 68 - In the rainy season, thousands of insects are born without a father or mother, and come out of the earth on their own; no one declares them to be God, no one worships them, no one prostrates before them.

CHRISTIANITY IS THE FULLEST MANIFESTATION OF SATAN

page 346 - Since Christianity is the fullest manifestation of Satan, therefore, the word Dajjal is not mentioned in Surah Fatiha but there is the command to seek God's protection against the mischief of the Christians.

STARS DO NOT COLLIDE NOR CHANGE SPEED

page 89 - There are so many grand heavenly bodies that are gliding through space that the slightest disorder in their gliding through space that the slightest disorder in their movements would bring about the ruin of the whole world.

What a manifestation of Divine power is it that these bodies neither collide nor change speed, nor alter their courses in the slightest degree, nor have they been worn out by their circulation during such long period, nor has their machinery suffered any disorder.

MEN SHOULD NOT LOOK AT WOMEN WHETHER WITH PURE INTENTIONS OR NOT

page 47 - we have been positively commanded not to look at their beauty, whether with pure intent or otherwise, nor to listen to their musical voices or to descriptions of their good looks, whether with pure intent or otherwise.

page 46 - the Quran instructs against glancing at women under any circumstances, be it covetously or with pure intentions because one is liable to stumble on this account. In fact, your eyes should always be lowered when you confront a Non-Mahram. You should not be aware of the physical form of a woman except through an obscured sight, in the way a person’s vision is clouded in the early stages of cataract.

page 26 - Holy Quran teaches us not to look at them unnecessarily, with or without lust, for this is likely to lead us astray. Should such a need arise, we should keep our eyes half shut and avoid staring at them. This is the only way to preserve the purity of our hearts.

Listen, dear friends! No good can come out of the free mixing of the sexes and the exchange of lascivious glances, while we know that men and women are not free from their carnal passions. Indeed, it amounts to deliberately throwing them into a pit.

HEAVENLY WATER PULLS ON EARTHLY WATER DURING RAIN

page 179 - That is why in the rainy season the level of the water in the wells also rises. Why does it rise? The reason for which is that heavenly water exercises a pull upon earthly water.

HELL IS DESCRIBED AS ETERNAL BUT ITS A METAPHOR

page 45 footnote - we know from what God says in His Book that the inmates of Hell will dwell in it for a long time—which has metaphorically been called 'eternity' in view of human weakness

SALVATION IS EXCLUSIVE TO MUSLIMS AND EXPLICITLY NOT FOR IDOLATERS

page 23 - Who is the one who attains salvation? Such a person is he who believes that God is true and that Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, is the Intercessor between God and all His creation, and that under the heaven there is no Messenger equal in rank to him, nor is there any book equal in status to the Quran.…I tell you truly that anyone who disregards even a small injunction of the seven hundred commandments of the Quran, shuts upon himself the door of salvation.…There are many pure commandments in the Holy Quran, one of them being to shun all forms of idolatry, as an idolater remains deprived of the fountain of salvation.

Hi,

I am wondering if there is any way to find a person that one could date and try to have a future with?? How is one supposed to find a person with ahmadiyya upbringing but that has decided not to be active. Someone that is liberal and is not attached to Jamaat.

So difficult to find the balance, it is great for ones parent if the person is Pakistani and in particularly ahmadi. Same culture, language and so on. Sure, you can find someone else with western origin but it will always be a gap in the relationship with family and so on…

I am a guy in the early 30:s and I feel very sad and frustrated that there is no way to find a person in Europe in an easy way…

My hope and dream would be to find a ahmadi girl that is not religious so that I can be happy as well as my family. We could live our life’s without having to be active in Jamaat….

I don’t know.. starting to lose hope…

Before I begin this post, I'd like to clarify that I have no ill intentions towards Mr Ali; if anything, I think he is an amazing actor and an overall amazing human being. A part of me is sorry to have to do this post, as this post can be read can as me basically attacking his character, which is not my intention whatsoever; I firmly believe that a Muslim can choose to live his/her life the way they want, with only God being able to judge us, and would therefore like to clarify that I am in no way judging Mr Ali and his actions. In fact, I am judging the Jamaat and its double standards.

My main gripe is that regardless of what Mahershala Ali does on screen, he is not reprimanded or kicked out of the Ahmadi community (not that I want him to be kicked out or chastised btw). If anything, the Jamaat has used him to show how 'moderate' they are, yet, if any other 'normal', 'non-famous' Ahmadis do anything that Mr Ali does, we would surely be excommunicated. It is these double standards that really annoy Ahmadis, as we live lives in constant fear of being shunned by the community simply because we're at a wedding where music is being played.

Moreover, Mr Ali has taken part in simulated sex scenes and played gay characters on screen, yet there is video reels of him at the USA Jalsa with the camera panning towards him. Furthermore, (I'm hoping someone can confirm this), I've heard that he has even appeared on MTA in various programmes.

So, how do the Ahmadi apologisers respond to this then? Why is that normal Ahmadis are kicked out for small infringements, yet other, more famous Ahmadis (who arguably are used as PR tokens by the Jamaat to paint the community as progressive), can get away with literally having sex on screen? Sadly, I cannot post this in the ahmadiyya subreddit, but I hope some users from that subreddit do respond here.

EDIT - This post contains more details on the same subject matter, as well as some resources that show how Mr Ali has chaired certain Jamaat events -

I am an 18 year old male who has since 2022 left Ahmadiyya mentally, but I still haven’t told anyone in my family this. I am afraid of the consequences it will have. My family is very involved in the Jama’at even tho we don’t follow all the rules (my mom doesn’t wear a hijab and we have music and dances at our weddings). Me and my siblings are also Waqfe Nau. Tho I’m certaint that atleast my parents are gonna accept me cause I’m planning on remaking Muslim, I don’t know if that will be the case for my extended family. Will we be completely cut of? And how will me leaving affect my parents relationship with their Ahmadi friends. Will their friend circle be much smaller? Will my parents be able to handle all the backbiting from the community they have been a part of for so long? I don’t know and I’m scared, and I am in desperate need for some advice.

Almost exactly four years ago, looking at a similar scandal in mainstream Islam, I how the jamaat would deal with sexual abuse in its own community:

If something similar did happen in the jamaat, do you think you would hear about it? Would the jamaat acknowledge it happened? Would there be an apology? Would the institutions, as well as ordinary members, support the victim, whoever he or she was? If a local president did it, who would you report it to? What about a national amir? Someone at markaz? Is the method of doing so just faxing a letter to Mirza Masroor?

When I wrote that, I was not personally aware of any cases of sexual abuse covered up by the highest levels of the jamaat, but thinking back on it, I think virtually all of us know of women in our local jamaats who suffer domestic abuse, complain to the local president and have it go nowhere.

To put it mildly, the administrative structure of the jamaat is relational and horribly equipped to deal with domestic or sexual abuse because it is opaque, entirely male-dominated and reliant on uncodified rules and processes that empower the local, national or markazi heads of jamaat.

These factors, combined with the image conscious nature of Pakistani culture and the sense, undergirding the world view of most believing Ahmadis, that nothing is or can ever be wrong with the jamaat, means it’s all but impossible for a case of sexual abuse to 1) be discussed openly in a healthy way and 2) be dealt with appropriately, especially if the perpetrator is a powerful man.

The jamaat, existing as a minority within a minority in the West, benefits tremendously from its less appealing positions ever being put to the test. For decades, the rubber has never met the road for the jamaat in the West. It has very seldom ever run into reality.

What do I mean by running into reality? Okay, so the Promised Messiah’s books have some weird stuff in them, but everyone was weird back then. Yes, the Amir of the Canadian jamaat did predict god would destroy Canada for legalizing gay marriage, but he’s just from a different generation. Yes, the jamaat heavily promoted homeopathy during the pandemic, but whatever, you don’t have to take those sugar pills.

In general, Ahmadis who are otherwise thoughtful and liberal are given plenty of opportunities to skate around the jamaat’s fondness for conversion therapy, purdah policing and the personality cult surrounding Mirza Masroor Ahmad. They can ignore the stuff that’s really out there while seeking their own compromise with modernity.

The jamaat tries very hard to live in its own bubble. This bubble is intended to be non-falisifiable, in that nothing in the jamaat’s world view or theology can be proven right or wrong in the way that two plus two is four or the English Channel is definitely filled with water. Instead, what you’re missing is the right hadith, the right translation of the right verse from the Quran, the right context from an episode in Islamic or Ahmadi history.

The jamaat also hates transparency and openness. If you have doubts, don’t air them openly, just go ask a murabbi, preferably in private. If something bad happened to you, just write a letter to the UK. If you’re losing faith, check out this Discord server.

There’s also no clear rule book for how members should act, how they should interact with each other and how the nizaam governs them. There’s no official book or document with positions on controversial topics, both social and theological, just a video of a Q&A session from 1984 that’s on the topic of your question, but doesn’t answer your question. By the way, the video is in Urdu. You do speak Urdu, don’t you?

The goal is often to just bore people to numbness with long videos, screenshots of books from 1894 and exegesis. Often the positions contradict themselves because why not? As I’m fond of saying, everything in Ahmadiyyat contradicts some other part of Ahmadiyyat.

It’s not that there’s a right answer that addresses doubts, but more the very existence of an answer that gives people comfort. What do we believe about Issue X? Don’t worry, brother, Huzoor ABA has addressed this issue somewhere in this 110-minute speech at the Germany jalsa from a few years ago. Here’s the link. Sometimes there’s double comfort in knowing that it’s not just an answer, but an answer to the allegations made by unspecified enemies of the jamaat. After all, the name of the Instagram account where you can explore questions such as “is it okay to buy shoelaces from an unveiled woman?” isn’t SatisfyingAhmadiAnswers, but just AhmadiAnswers.

Despite all the manoeuvering, sometimes things do penetrate this bubble. In my lifetime, the conversion numbers are the best example, a rare example of the jamaat saying something clearly false as a divinely guided caliph , to only cheers and jubilation, that 120 million people converted to Ahmadiyyat between 1999 and 2001.

Other times you’ll catch the jamaat doing horrible things that cause people who read them to turn away: support for , the length of women’s coats, for things like having their child’s wedding. All of these are moments where many otherwise liberal people found that they could politely sit through arcane arguments over what it means to be the last prophet, but not demonstrably awful things that go against what they believe in their daily lives.

These issues can be contained for the most part. People don’t easily risk shaming, guilt from their parents and broader community easily and for many believing Ahmadis, they may not have agreed with public excommunications, but at the same time, they didn’t want to stick their neck out over it. They may not have liked Mirza Masroor’s views on gender and sexuality, which are about 1-2 generations out of date at best, but then they weren’t gay and they didn’t plan on becoming a trial attorney anyway, so it didn’t affect them directly.

What happened to Nida seems to be different. This isn’t an abstract conversation about how many Ahmadis there are in the world, this is the jamaat reacting to its own Me Too moment with the same level of indifference as so many other organizations. Not every Ahmadi is gay or wants to marry outside of the jamaat, but just about every Ahmadi can see this happening to them regardless of who they are, how they dress or how respected their family is.

For so long, of ostracism and excommunication by saying theirs is a community with rules just like any other. It turns out the jamaat is indeed just another organization, and Mirza Masroor Ahmad just another powerful man, collectively with no interest in addressing the abuse going on in their organization.

I’m not here to litigate this case. No, we don’t know what happened, but if knowing firsthand what happened was a precondition for speaking out, all the Ahmadi publications about Jesus in Kashmir may require some editing like the Alislam website, which itself is an official website until it’s just another website.

It’s not enough for a gym or a workplace or a birdwatching club, when approached with an allegation of sexual abuse, to simply throw up its hands and say “well there’s nothing we can do as the Bristol Birdwatchers to kick out this fellow who groped you at our annual year-end party, we’ll just have to wait for the legal process to see itself through”.

The president of the birdwatching club shouldn’t just tell the woman raising the complaint to drop it, to forget about it, to let him investigate it in the way he sees fit. The club’s Instagram account shouldn’t go in overdrive about the sanctity of hobby club presidents and the need to avoid photographing birds you don’t personally own.

Regardless of what the facts show in the end, if we ever do know the facts, every Ahmadi woman, young and old alike, now know how the jamaat would react if they were ever to be abused. They now know how their fellow Ahmadis would react and just how utterly incapable this organization is of protecting its vulnerable members from predators.

We don’t know where this is going to go, but I think we can safely assume that for weeks, months and years years this will be something young Ahmadis remember when they get to a crossroads in their lives. When they decide whether to become more involved with the jamaat, whether to marry the person their family recommends, whether to move across the country or the ocean for independence, they will think of this case.

You won’t immediately see the effect of this on Friday sermons, jalsa salanas or the khuddam ijtema because those things will likely happen a generation from now. But this will now be a thorn in the side of a jamaat that only ever wants to take about how its better than other Muslims and how epidemic. Bit by bit, people will start to leave and this itself will normalize leaving, causing still more people to leave. The jamaat will survive for at least one more generation, but it will have to decide what to do about this problematic thing called the real world.

Hello, You have been permanently banned from participating in because you broke this community's rules. You won't be able to post or comment, but you can still view and subscribe to it.

Yet no explanation of which rule I broke. Literally a cult full of censorship. They downvote even actual points you make it's very ridiculous.

This gentleman has appeared in speakers corner and various livestreams defending the Ahmadi jamaat, but it appears even he has grown tired of the censorship and two faced nature of the Jamaat.

Also posted this in the AhmadiMuslims subreddit and they, as probably expected, have spammed with like 3 to 4 other threads around memes etc to perhaps cover up this important question/post.

Anyhow, keen to hear views, especially as people like this gentleman who are Ahmadi don’t normally voice (in public at least) what we’re all thinking about the Jamaat’s draconian and cult like practices

As an Ahmadi I never celebrated Christmas, birthdays or Halloween. Each celebration had its own reasoning behind why we shouldn't participate. But the result of it was the same. I felt different. We Ahmadi's are different. 'We' do not celebrate when 'they' are celebrating.

Depending on which high control group is being discussed, the reasoning differs but the result is the same. The members do not participate in celebrations which are shared by most and this prevents them from sharing a bonding moment with people outside their community. It closes one more avenue through which 'we' could relate to 'them' and remove the fear surrounding 'them'.

By fostering an us vs them mentality it helps insulate members of a community. It isolates them from people with different ideas and beliefs. I personally could never form a deep bond with someone that wasn't an Ahmadi. I knew that we were different. I knew that they wouldn't understand.

I also knew that since they were different, 'they' could be a bad influence on me, whether consciously or unconsciously. See the following extract from , the official website of the Ahmadiyya muslim community:

This reminds me of a Sikh student who had great affection for the Promised Messiah. On one occasion he sent a message to him — through Hazrat Maulvi Nuruddin Sahib — that his mind was being affected by agnostic thinking. The Promised Messiah suggested that this young man should change his seat in the classroom and sit away from his classmates who sat close to him. The change proved the cure for his agnosticism. No argument had passed between them, but unexpressed thoughts were being communicated in some mysterious way

[]

I recall being told this story as a teen. The moral was that the people around you could be influencing you in ways you aren't aware. 'They' could be dangerous to 'us'.

With this year ending, lets take a moment to remember that we are all human. We are all trying to live a good life. Lets not allow arbitrary lines drawn by other people divide us. Make the most of the one life you know you have.

Merry Christmas and Happy new year to all of you.

Nida tweeted the international religious freedom joint statement issued yesterday with a highlighted section at the bottom.

“Review and address current intersecting forms of violence and discrimination against women and children within the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community”

I think this is great and a sign for any sincere Ahmadi to pull your sleeves up and work on ending the discrimination and abuse women and children are experiencing in jamaat. I hope our office holders and Khalifa will follow on these guidelines and make the necessary changes for the success of jamaat.

Hi all

I heard the recording by Huzoor speaking to Nida. I was really upset about it and wrote about it here. I plan to pray with non-Ahmadis and will not be paying Chanda until this issue is addressed appropriately.

They are saying I am like a COVID denier, which is crazy. I'm really disappointed in what I was seeing here. They were calling non-Ahmadis kafir, not Muslim, out of the pale of Islam, and all of that. These are things I heard we are against. While I consider myself to be an Ahmadi Muslim, I never said that non-Ahmadis are not Muslims. this is something I strongly believe and was always told was true. We were just told they were wrong. Now just for suggesting that I might pray with them, see for yourself what happened.

I hope to attend Namaz-e-Jumah at the non-Ahmadi masjid insha Allah.

PS. I was messaged by a few people who told me of this forum.