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In all the twists and turns in the series, which ones made you feel the most like "Oh sh*t, I can't believe it!?" when it happened?
For me of all things it was when the term "DL-6" came up about Mia's mother in Turnabout Goodbyes because I literally had no idea how these games would flow, but I just remembered randomly coming across it when looking for Redd White's files in 1-2 and having a brief conversation with Grossberg about it. I thought it was just gonna be some backstory to flesh things out a bit more, but the way it suddenly became central to understanding what was happening with Edgeworth was truly exciting to me.
Since I first played the series over a decade ago, my favorite way to play has been with a couch full of friends reading along, each person voicing their own characters with silly voices and solving the mysteries together. In college we even devised a devastatingly effective drinking game with one simple rule: drink whenever a character just has punctuation in their dialogue box. It was a total blast.
I haven't been able to play like this regularly in a long while. With the pandemic isolating all of my friends and moving away and starting a career, my friends are less interested in spending time with the series. This is a shame, so much so that I haven't been able to play an Ace Attorney game since Dual Destinies. I wonder if anyone from this subreddit would be interested in playing through the series again with me?
I would love to start up a Discord or something and stream the series with other fans to relive those experiences. Has anyone else done this before? Would anyone want to play through Ace Attorney, share a couple of drinks, and a lot of laughs at our horrible voice acting? Let me know!!
(edit: specifically seeking fun people who promote inclusivity of all)
When it comes to morally questionable prosecutors, they're a dime a dozen, but pretty much all of the defense attorneys we see in the games are overtly good people. They'd never defend a guilty person, for example.
With the obvious exception of Kristoph Gavin, I can't really think of ANY "evil" defense attorneys. Am I forgetting any, or is it really just Kristoph?
Ok, in the game we are proving that Gregson’s murder could have been earlier that the moments they heard a gunshot and that the “gunshot” could have been fake, the judge asks how could the sound be replicated and i present the Venus Firecrackers, it plays the “you are wrong” dialogue and i am punished, i have seen a walkthrough and i am right, but it keeps saying i am wrong no matter how many times i present the right option, I also tried to examine the firecrackers but there is nothing. Do you know how to fix this?
Simon Blackquill is a prosecutor and the main rival for dual destinies. Back in 2020 Simon was declared guilty for murdering his mentor and was later given the death penalty. Even though, Simon is a prisoner, he still obtained a permission to prosecute in the court. He is a twisted samurai, a master of sarcasm and a very strong opponent with a rich background.
How do you rate Simon Blackquill?
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So I played AA1 years ago. I liked it a lot but I'm just not a visual novel guy and I bounced hard off AA2 when I started it up next. Then half a year ago now I decided to finally go through the other games. Before I did that I looked up popularity stuff online and talked with other fans. I was assured "yeah, no wonder you quit. Justice for All is the worst one. But Trials and Tribulations, that's the best one."
Well, having played the series up to Dual Destinies, I have to confess I find this opinion baffling. In my opinion. I won't attack TT too much but I feel like its appeal, and also why JFA falls flat for some, is the "overarching plot." AA1 had it, too, with DL-6 always looming in the background. JfA is a series of unconnected cases with nothing like DL-6 or a central villain like Dahlia. BUT I think this is all to the good for why I prefer JFA to TT. TT sinks or swims on if you find Dahlia Hawthorne a compelling villain. I do not.
Now to talk about JfA and why I like it so much. While there is no big overarching plot, there is a certain tone to the cases that I really appreciate. This is Ace Attorney, this is some whacky, goofy sh*t. And yet it has characters we really get invested in, stakes we care about. Justice for All's second, third, and fourth cases all stray into some dark, serious matters by the end. Heck, 2-4 starts off very dark and serious but even the much maligned Big Top has a pretty devastating finale. Luke and Tigre are just goofballs who I don't really care about or take any satisfaction in stopping. Mini and Acro are culprits I can actually sympathize with and feel sorry for. As I said, the game does not shy away from really laying on more heavy subjects and the guilt and pain these two have to endure and live with really came through to me. Plus I really like the entire idea of Big Top; this group of performers is a family but they're old-fashioned and facing obscurity. The end of the case is everyone involved growing and trying to save the circus.
But of course the jewel in the crown of JFA is 2-4. I still need to play AA6 but at this point in time, Farewell, My Turnabout is my absolute #1 favorite case in the series. It's the sole case I consider intellectually stimulating as in it explores themes and ideas I search for in any law-based fiction. Phoenix's job is to be a defense attorney, it is his obligation to defend his client. But his client is guilty as sin. The stakes are so high from the very beginning when Maya is kidnapped but Phoenix's integrity being on the line makes it even more intense. And of course Engarde is the best frickin' villain. You can see it coming with various clues so it's not a BS twist but it's also not insultingly obvious. Plus he's so incredibly, legitimately charming..
https://preview.redd.it/justice-for-justice-for-all-v0-l0u417a4zc9b1.jpg?width=1585&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=fa3df1d93b0b56c4a2450f2fc6672dc228f37b2c
Add in a cast of good side characters and Miles replacing Franziska as the Prosecutor and it's absolutely picture perfect.
I think that's mostly all I wanted to say. I'm eager to meet fellow fans or hear the views of detractors.
So I've run a poll here asking what everyone's favorite game in the Apollo Justice Trilogy is, and got some varied answers but which one is your least favorite?
Overall, do you prefer:
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The main series games (AA1, JFA, T&T, AJ, DD and SoJ)
or
2. The spin-off games (I1, I2, VS, DGS / TGAA 1, DGS / TGAA 2)
I played the first 4 episodes and have of 5 in december I want to return and play episode 5 but I don't wanna create a new save file?can I just start the episode over? Am playing the trilogy on switch
Hey fellow Ace Attorney fans!
I wanted to share with you all two captivating Objection.LOL scenes I've created that provide unique perspectives on one of the most memorable cases in the series: Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4). These scenes allow you to experience the case through the reflections of two key characters involved: Juan Corrida, the victim, and Adrian Andrews, Juan's girlfriend.
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Farewell, My Turnabout: Reflections of Adrian Andrews [Objection.LOL Scene] (Main case spoilers for Ace Attorney and Justice For All. Light plot-related spoilers for Trials & Tribulations).
In this Objection.LOL scene, you'll step into the shoes of Adrian Andrews as she reflects on the events surrounding the Farewell, My Turnabout case. Explore her thoughts, emotions, and perspective as she navigates through the twists and turns of the intricate plot. Gain insight into her relationship with Juan Corrida and uncover the secrets hidden within the case.
2. Farewell, My Turnabout: Echoes of Juan Corrida [Objection.LOL Scene] (Main case spoilers for Ace Attorney and Justice For All. Light plot-related spoilers for Trials & Tribulations).
In this Objection.LOL scene, you'll witness the case from the perspective of Juan Corrida, the victim himself. Delve into Juan's mindset, his motivations, and the challenges he faced leading up to the fateful night. Explore the pressures of fame and the personal struggles that ultimately led to his tragic end. Uncover the truth behind his actions and the impact they had on the case.
I hope you find these Objection.LOL scenes engaging and immersive, offering a fresh headcanon take on the Farewell, My Turnabout case. By stepping into the perspectives of Adrian Andrews and Juan Corrida, you'll hopefully gain a deeper appreciation of the intricate dynamics at play and this conclusion to an game like JFA that I personally find to be very underrated in many respects.
Feel free to experience these scenes and share your thoughts and insights. Let's discuss this unforgettable chapter and celebrate the brilliance of the Ace Attorney series through exploring this particular case together!
Looking forward to hearing from you all!
This is a game very clearly inspired by Ace Attorney structurally and mechanically. Personally, I have no issue with that, so long as nobody gets into legal trouble over it. There's a lot of potential in mechanics or structures like these, especially if they're used differently from Ace Attorney.
I really loved this game, but I'm also aware that there's a few things it does that I personally happen to enjoy. Before anything else, I'd like to go over them if there's only one thing you take from the post.
The Things I Enjoyed
Stakes and Common Sense actually apply, and stretches on the reasonable are justified by the worldbuilding.
My tastes may well be peculiar, but my favourite part of Ace Attorney is debates and arguing minutia above all else. We may be pointing out the obvious or a technicality, but the process of looking at what is said and pointing things out, followed by discussing the why, is what I most enjoy.
That makes the follow-up very important: Why is the contradiction there? How does it fit in the case? What are the implications about the witness? One part that Ace Attorney tends to neglect that Attorney of the Arcane does not is "Realistically, how does this affect the case for the defence and prosecution?".
In Attorney of the Arcane this means the prosecution must change tacks, switching witnesses or theories. In Ace Attorney those approaches are also employed, but in almost every case AA prefers to have witnesses stay around for long periods of time and dig into them -- a valid and useful drama tactic -- but one with its flaws:
Fundamentally, Ace Attorney employs every trick in the book to keep the drama and the stakes at the maximum all the time. If you fail this particular thing (which is every thing) you will lose it all and the criminals will get away. The criminal may have lied 5 times already, but if you can't prove they're lying this 6th time you'll lose the case and maybe get the death penalty because why not.
To be honest, sometimes the Ace Attorney games, so they don't have to bend what is reasonable, just refuse to bring up the fact that you've already proven your client innocent so long as you don't also catch the culprit.
Both games depict a corrupt system biased against the defence, but in Attorney of the Arcane the stakes are treated as what they actually are. If you can't prove your client's innocence, if you can only show that there's some doubt on the prosecution's case, what you're actually looking at is years of protracted court proceedures and the corrupt forces employing every possible artifice to drag out the acquital, marring the case in reinvestigations and appeals. The game never pretends that a loss is more critical than it is, though obviously nobody wants that particular outcome regardless. This allows the case to play out in a similar fashion to Ace Attorney, revealing a culprit, without stretching believability.
Attorney of the Arcane is unafraid to see the defence and prosecution fight on a balanced battlefield. If the defence needs someone to testify for their case, they summon them, much like the prosecution does. If the defence needs to investigate, they do and information isn't kept specifically from either side. Fact is, if the defence can explain away prosecution theories in court, then the prosecution actually has the burden to prove the defendant's guilt.
These aren't actually balanced scales, but the worldbuilding justifies it properly. If the witness wilfully lies, then that's a punishable crime and their credibility is tanked. The world is full of nobility who can get away with covering things up, but what they can't get away from is public perception over what's brought up in court, which often brings up some noble higher on the totem pole to do away with the criminal elements just for the sake of reputation.
In Ace Attorney it's undeniable that lying once or twice on the stand isn't a big deal*, whereas in Attorney of the Arcane the witnesses must at least keep up a pretence of reasonably making a mistake and not completely changing things up on the fly.
*TGAAC Spoilers
The game embraces the fact that it will often turn into a Howcatchem and does not purposefully refuse to address things until the moment the revelation would be most dramatic.
Ace Attorney started with Howcatchem roots. Culprits are revealed at the start of some cases, and even when they are not, discovering the culprit with some certainty often occurs halfway through the case, with a majority of playtime constituting trying to prove the culprit is the culprit.
However, it has over time morphed away from focusing on that aspect into building towards twists and big moments, especially in Yamazaki cases. Culprits can remain somewhat obvious due to cast sizes or meta reasons, but the games tend to delay their gratification until the trials.
In investigations you discover things, but -- again also for drama reasons -- the cases where you discover things in the investigation that you know will win you the case are rare and far between. Even when you do, the characters tend to refrain from putting 2 and 2 together until the moment the revelation is most dramatic or necessary for the case.
Contrary to Ace Attorney, you will very often discover all of the things that you're later going to try to get witnesses to admit to during the investigation. If witnesses are blatantly acting suspicious that's not foreshadowing a twist, that's telling the protagonist right at that moment that he should look into it and figure out what it's about before court.
The protagonist actually works with the information he finds and deduces the truth long before he can prove it. As such the trial sections are often about entertaining witness hypotheticals until your trump card can be deployed. (Which, incidentally, the protagonist likes to keep in his pocket until such a moment that he's done all else he can.)
You go into trials prepared to torpedo the prosecution case, and more often than not, these are genuine problems for the prosecution. It forces the prosecution to change their case, but they certainly aren't able to ignore these issues when brought up.
Finally, I want to bring up something about both of the above points: In reality, Ace Attorney is inconsistent on those counts. Takumi and Yamazaki write cases differently to being with, with Yamazaki being more similar to Attorney of the Arcane where the prosecution actually accepts defence logic and adapts their case. On the other hand, Takumi is more unafraid to include big twists in the investigations rather than exclusively court cases.
Regardless of my particular points of enjoyment, though, given where I'm posting this, it makes sense to go over the various aspects which differ from regular Ace Attorney, annd go into a bit of detail over why I like them.
Comparison with Ace Attorney
In terms of style and aesthetics, it's hard to argue that either game does not venture into anime aesthetics and even tropes at a variety of times. That said, it was my impression that Attorney of the Arcane most often invokes a modern lens on both of these counts. One particular reason is that Attorney of the Arcane is more 'adult' in language and implication than most Ace Attorney games care to be, at least when it comes to language; it doesn't mean it's particularly more graphic.
In terms of presentation, Ace Attorney games are clearly higher budget, but it was never really a fair fight. What this means in practice is that visually there will be things Attorney of the Arcane must cut down on. Most noticeably this will be evidence images, which does not bother me at all, and visual depictions of the mystery elements, that is, CGs that depict the events of the case for better player understanding of what is talked about (ie, the CGs we find in the main game like the photographs in 2-2 or the explanation of what happened at the bridge in 3-5).
Ace Attorney sprites have, since their inception, relied heavily on animation to make up in dynamism they originally couldn't have on the GBA. Sahwit has a limited sprite set but is extremely dynamic. Attorney of the Arcane instead has almost exclusively static sprites with light animation in the eyes and mouth. This doesn't mean the sprites are without character or don't invoke dynamism -- I actually think the posing is quite good on most sprites. Desk banging and shocked reactions are basically the only character animations but they're not outstanding.
It is worth noting that Attorney of the Arcane does not lag behind in terms of character amount. Animations may be simpler (and some people have reported that the art style between characters changes -- not something I much notice) but the cases *are* populated with involved parties.
In terms of music I am scarcely a qualified judge. For the most part I find Ace Attorney's tracks more memorable, but as games I've replayed a billion times that's hardly meaningful. One objective thing I can mention is that some tracks in Attorney of the Arcane makes clever use of layering of instruments where the same tracks can have more or less instruments as required by the impact the story is meant to convey at a given point.
In terms of mechanics, the basics are taken wholesale from Ace Attorney: A series of statements, you can present evidence at them to indicate a contradiction, and you can press them for a chance to alter or add statements. This is a solid base and I've no issue with reusing it. The system is ingenious and mystery games lose nothing by using similar systems.
That said, Attorney of the Arcane has its own side systems for gameplay (Spoilers for the original mechanics in this game for the rest of this section). One of them, Arguments, shares similarities with the Magatama: When prompted, an argument with a character will start, and you're required to refute each claim they make to you using either evidence (like the Magatama) or selecting a dialogue option or using the witnesses emotions (like the Mood Matrix) or thoughts.
Mechanically, there's not much terribly different to do in this minigame compared to the Magatama or emotion-contradiction finding of the Mood Matrix, but in practice I enjoy these Arguments much more.
The game suggests, before some of the arguments, that you build a "Psychological Profile" of the witness, which while it essentially stands in as a "find the necessary evidence before you start" it fits in nicely as a roleplay element. Once done it'll give you a small blurb of the character's character, which allows you to select the right dialogue options according to your understanding of the character's motivation. This too works nicely as a roleplay element, since the options are presented in the form of 'types' such as: Rationalise, Deflect, Threaten, etc (This stands for deflecting and talking about something else, threatening the person with the consequences of their actions or trying to rationalise with them on why they should come clean)
Each one is an actual sentence and the player simply chooses the one they believe will persuade the opposing character, so the 'types' are irrelevant in practice but enjoyable in roleplay.
There is one wholly original mechanic in Attorney of the Arcane. The protagonist is capable of reading some thoughts the witnesses have, so at critical moments he's capable of gaming this fact by presenting things to a potential culprit in order to ellicit an incriminating thought he can leverage to rebuild a case. This is a particularly enjoyable system because we can learn more about the witnesses even when we present things that don't help build a case. You can find out their genuine thoughts about some of the things related to them but not the case.
In terms of characters, this is where a divergence in style is apparent, and it's one that Ace Attorney fans can easily take issue with. Simply put, 90% of witnesses do not get their motivations explored in any dramatic fashion, which is in practice Ace Attorney's modus operandi. This is not to say the characters are overly simplistic or that they have no motivations, but simply that no big deal is made about them and the story moves on without dwelling on characters who lie or whose testimony contains contradictions.
The characters are, by and large, not kooky and bombastic as is often the case in Ace Attorney. I'm hesitant to call this a flaw, but the fact is that they are simply less memorable. They're not complete gimmick characters and their motivations don't get revealed or explained in a dramatic fashion*, which makes the whole thing less memorable, but also more down to earth, which I like. This ties in to something I actually like very much, which regards how structurally, we don't get witnesses lying on the stand multiple times and still being regarded as pivotal to the case.
*As mentioned earlier in the section about Stakes and Common Sense, one of the reasons the drama is turned way down is because the stakes aren't artifically inflated.
The main cast is an exception, to some extent, when it comes to the dramatics, but they're not really kooky on the whole either. I've fallen in love with them, though. Particularly the main character and the assistant. Also others I don't want to bring up for fear of spoiling the experience.
In terms of story, this is a difficult part for me to adress. On the whole, the 'story' of any particular game is never a high priority to me when compared to individual case beats and character interactions. I enjoyed the story in Attorney of the Arcane, though it is aparent how the last case in particular was rushed in some respects. I suppose the only thing I can say is that I don't feel it particularly rehashes Ace Attorney plot beats with some exceptions that may or may not be subverted.
On thing that's different about Attorney of the Arcane is that it doesn't take place in a setting that's already intuitively understood by the player, but instead a whole entire new world with new rules. The most obvious of which is magic and its rules, which are used for a lot of creative contradiction design.
The game uses a style I tend to enjoy where it doesn't expound on lore out of place. The protagonist narrates some explanations when relevant, but it otherwise doesn't explain when terms that people should already know are brought up. It, in my opinion, makes the world feel larger than what we see. Some people have motivations beyond the world we're familiar with!
The writing also seems to hint that the game world could be used in the future, such as in sequels or new games.
Finally, the game uses 2nd person narration. This is actually a novelty for me and I enjoy it, but I've seen it seemingly bothers others? Ace Attorney has no narration at all that isn't somebody's thoughts.
In terms of mystery, this is the part I most enjoy. Not necessarily in the sense of the cases being highly complex and difficult; that's not a necessity at all, and even simple cases or logic is still enjoyable in terms of addressing the minutia of individual statements. In the end, that part is what I most love about Ace Attorney.
While there are complex cases, Attorney of the Arcane often also presents at the player matters of misleading wording or things a witness says which seem to make sense but actually don't. It's often my favourite type of a contradiction when the lawyer pointing it out is as surprised as anyone else: "Wait, what did you just say?? How is that possible??"
Something doesn't make sense as explained by witnesses that don't seem to be lying, and therefore requires reinterpertation of the case. This also happens in Ace Attorney, but Attorney of the Arcane does this more often.
Conclusion
Given how much I ended up writing about this game, I think it's clear I quite like it. What is fun, I think, is that a lot of the "positives" I describe in this post are very likely to be flat out negatives to a lot of people. Nonetheless, if you are anything like me, or feel intrigued by the game in spite of things I may have mentioned you'd dislike, I implore you to try it out! If you like contradiction gameplay you'll get that at the very least.
I noticed that in both AAI and DD, the new Core theme sounds kind of ill-fitting to what the usual tone of a "Core" theme is supposed to be. In SoJ he was only one of 3 composers so he didn't create either the Khura'in version or Japan 2016 version, which were instead made by a Monster Hunter composer and Horiyama who made AA4's OST.
That leaves us with Core 2011 as the only Iwadare Core theme that sounds like the kind of "hardboiled, shocking mystery reveal!" theme that complicates the mystery further. It's a bit over the top with a ridiculous slap-bass line and gets pretty loud but there's no mistaking it has the tone that Core usually has.
In AAI though, it just sounds like it's kind of meant to be catchy? It just kinda dances around and sounds like a "made-for-fun" remix of Core 2001 with different harmonization.
In DD it literally sounds like some kind of "Oh here we go, this party is just getting started" theme -- it's pretty weird to me. It's a fun piece of music and I love the build up of its first chord, and heavy drums but as soon as the synthesizer melody sets in it completely takes me out of it. It's understandable why for almost all of DD they only chose to play it right before a trial segment, as if to get you pumped for it rather than having a final end-of-day twist seamlessly bridge into it.
Links:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRZw_3i_HnQ SoJ (Japan)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Wh8q94wDk SoJ (Khura'in)
And finally...
Noriyuki Iwadare composed the following Ace Attorney games: Trials & Tribulations, Investigations, Investigations 2, Dual Destinies, a third of Spirit of Justice.
Interestingly, JFA had an "Investigation Middle" theme and "Core 2002". I can't remember if "Middle" only plays during Farewell, My Turnabout, but I like to think that Middle was Akemi Kimura's (JFA) idea of a "normal final case Investigation" and then his new Core 2002 was his idea of a "Core final case investigation" so that you have the lighthearted version and then the dark and evil version, to reflect Matt Engarde's personality-reveal. And on top of that T&T had a new "Middle" theme used late in the game, but not a new Core theme. I have to wonder if that's because Iwadare didn't understand "Core" and whatever he produced was cut by Shu Takumi's team for not fitting properly with the tone of the script.
What do you think about the Core themes? What do you think their purpose and usage is?
I just picked up the trilogy on steam yesterday and I love the game so far! Buuuut I'm on episode 3 now and I still don't have the achievement for "first steps" which the description says "start playing PW:AA Trilogy"
Do I need to do something special? Did I do something wrong? I don't want to dig too deep and spoil the story for myself. Any help is appreciated and I hope this is the right sub for this
So I started playing the first prequel recently. I felt a bit wary, since my last game of the franchise has been Dual Destinies, which I enjoyed but felt it a bit... not as good as the rest of the franchise.
Now, I just finished third chapter, so please try not spoil me.
The reason I made this post, well, to put it simply is how by the end of the third chapter I was shocked of how good things were.
Lets see, first chapter in my opinion was quite decent. Good introduction of everyone and the general plot. I found it cool how the case finished with what was kinda a defeat, the culprit escaping from any repercussions.
Then second case was not that good... BUT it had Sherlock, who is charismatic as heck and his deduction parts are really fun. Also, I found it nice how the case followed the same pattern than one on Edgeworth's game, not being stuck at the courtroom like usual.
Then third case... Okay, Ill start saying I had been spoiled about the defendant being the culprit... I still kinda forgot at a certain point.
McGilded was such an obvious shady character and not a good person at all, but the damn bastard planned everything so obiously purposefuly that it amazed me and truly made me think for a moment that maybe he was a shitty person but still innocent of this murder case at least.
He truly managed to commit that crime without leaving any decesive evidence and managed to block any advances of Van Ziegs who is supposed to be a prosecutor legend... And then he ends up being declared innocent.
If the first case conclusion was a defeat on disguise this was like getting hit by the judge hammer in the nuts. Maybe Im hiping myself, but in a way it feels like Mcgilded was at the level of a main antagonist in any of the other games because of how he truly managed to mess everyone up so much.
And then the closing animated scene...
Im excited to see whats comng now.