Posts about CarMax
I am not the original poster*. OOP is* u/ChicagoThrowaway422, posting in r/askcarsales*. (Thanks for permission to post!) Image descriptions, in square brackets, were provided by me.*
Fun fact to hide the spoilers: Did you know there are blond raccoons? I saw one in person once, took my breath away. Also, their name in Nahuatl, mapachitli, means "the one who takes everything in its hands," and the German waschbär means "washing bear!"
Trigger warnings: No major triggers
Mood spoiler: CarMax basically wins after jerking him around and not explaining shit, but he comes out no worse for wear financially.
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Originally posted in r/personalfinance but the comments there suggest this is more of a legal issue, and now posting here on the advice of a bunch of commenters. I don't need legal advice, but I would greatly appreciate it if anyone here has insight into why this would be happening and if there are ways to work with the dealership to keep the deal on track. Thanks, ACS.
Link then full original text (modified the thank you). Please let me know if I violated any rules and I'll modify my post. I understand nothing written here constitutes legal advice.
Text:
I sold my car to CarMax today and the process went smoothly. It took a couple hours, but overall I was impressed. It's a car I bought new in 2018 and due to covid has low miles. They appraised it on-site for an hour and have me the price they quoted through their website. I was chuffed.
Leaving the dealership I get this text message from an unknown number:
CarMax maintains the right to determine which customers it will conduct business with and, based on information in our systems, CarMax has elected to not do business with you. I don't know the exact reason, but it could be related to a prior interaction with CarMax or information you have provided. This decision is final and is applicable at all CarMax locations.
I thought it was spam so I didn't respond, but I called carmax to tell them about this, thinking someone was using their info to scam people. The customer relations person was confused and said it was weird and gave me the corporate number and asked that I report it to them so they're aware.
I gave up after sitting on hold, thinking I'd call back tomorrow.
That's when the store called me directly and the manager asked that I bring back the bank draft immediately and they would give me the car. They said that corporate demanded it and they had zero information as to why. I was extremely skeptical and asked for common reasons why this could happen and he gave me nothing. He seemed nervous and asked me to call back tonight with a time I could come back or he would follow up tomorrow.
I read the signed contract and the breach clause states they can demand to cancel a transaction if I misrepresented something at some point, which I haven't.
I have nearly perfect credit, the loan is current, the car is in excellent condition (and they appraised it themselves) and we have a signed contract. My wife is on the loan and she signed everything right next to me. We didn't lie whatsoever.
I called CarMax corporate and the nice customer service lady couldn't reach anyone at corporate (it's 6pm) so she's going to call the location GM and call me back by 7.
I called the loan holder and they saw the loan payoff request from CarMax at 1:49pm today and confirmed the payoff amount the CarMax told me.
I've also called my aunt, a lawyer, and told her the situation and I'll see what she says.
But right now, I'm not doing squat. Unless they tell me how I was in breach of contract, I'm considering it valid. My only worry is that they won't pay off the loan (I already deposited the bank draft).
All I can assume is that they didn't like the deal after the fact. They have an identical car (all options, color and mileage) listed on their lot for only $998 more than they paid to us, implying they're oy making $998 on the car they just bought from me.
Either that or it's a case of mistaken identity?
But seriously, has anyone ever heard of this before? What options do I have???
Thanks, LA, maybe you can help me here more.
Edit: corporate customer service just called back and told me that the information provide (i. e., none) was accurate and they want to unwind the deal, citing that they have the right to choose who they do business with.
I told them that until the can show me how I breached the contract, I'm going to consider it valid and not do anything. She said she'll let legal know.
No idea wtf their problem is. It's not like a car company has never lost money before. I can't imagine there's any other reason for this B. S.
Edit for r/LA: One addition, I read the contract closely and there is no arbitration or cool off period, but it states CarMax can cancel the deal at any time for any reason. The problem I have is that they haven't specified which clause they're using to cancel the deal nor have they provided any reason. So like, what gives?
Edit2:
Here's the first half of Breach and Liability:
Any breach of this agreement, including but not limited to, any untrue, false, fraudulent, incomplete, incorrect or misleading representation or warranty made by you in this Agreemement, may, at CarMax's option, result in the cancelation of this Agreement. Carmax reserves the right to to cancel the sale at its sole option for any reason. If we cancel this sale, any draft tendered to you (or trade-in credit given) for the Vehicle may be voided at our sole discretion without notice to you and you will immediately return any voucher, monies, or trade-in credit given in a manner and time prescribed by CarMax. If the sale is canceled following our payoff jf the lines in Line 2 (payoff amount, which is correct), you are responsible for refunding that amount to CarMax.
If you applied this the proceeds from this sale to the purchase of another vehicle from CarMax and this sale is canceled, you shall be solely liable for the affected portion of your down payment or trade-in credit for that other vehicle.
It goes on to list three things should I do : 1, lie, 2 breach, or 3, a law is violated, I indemnify CarMax for any liability and lay their attorney fees. This section is long so I didn't write it out. Let me know if it's helpful tho.
The last paragraph states that if the car is wanted by the authorities, CarMax can hand it over and it's my responsibility to pay CarMax back for the lost value.
MORNING EDIT:
They changed their online quote tool as of this morning. Yesterday I ran the quote tool and it gave me the same quote they've given me since November, and I refreshed the quote at least twice during that time. It peaked at $21,200, but I decided to sell when it went back down to $21,000 even. Here's a screen shot of the tool yesterday, after the sale went through, confirming that their online tool still showed this value and that they didn't overpay me according to their own website:
[Image description: A screenshot of the CarMax website, showing that the Kelly Blue Book Trade-in Range is $21,188 to $23,387.]
And here it is this morning after running the tool with identical options:
[Image description: A screenshot of the CarMax website, saying "We'd like to see your Mazda (blocked out).]
Now, the tool works by inputting your license plate or VIN, so there's a chance that my particular vehicle is flagged now that it's in their system. But if not, then this implies to me that the market for this car is changing and they want to unwind my sale because they think they could lose money on it. I think at this point they're the ones flirting with fraud here.
Also, my Aunt called back at 7:15am (jfc) and is all excited about this. Her husband is a process server and neither of them have ever heard of anything like this, so they clearly think this is fun. It's probably not a good sign when you get lawyers excited to dig into what you're doing. Anyway, I sent over a copy of the contract for them to read, and they've advised me that doing nothing is the right path forward and to tell them that I've contacted my attorneys if CarMax tries to reach out again. They're befuddled why CarMax won't give an explanation to me at all and think that's the biggest red flag. If CarMax doesn't pay off the loan, I get the privilege of suing them.
I'll keep updating as things progress.
Mid-morning edit: check just fully cleared and deposited. AFAIK, a bank draft is super hard to reverse, so I don't think they can claw this back without my cooperation.
Early afternoon edit: nothing new really. CarMax has not contacted me again even though the manager who called me yesterday said that they would follow up today. I've talked with my loan owner twice now to request documentation of the payoff amount and I've started recording everything. I'm now just running down the checklist of stuff I'm being told to do, and I'm not going to list all of it here (though I'll tell more if/when things resolve), but I'll keep giving major updates.
I didn't sign an NDA with CarMax, so I don't see any issues openly discussing what's going on. I've been honest in my side of the deal and am representing myself and intentions accurately. I've considered just caving and selling to Carvana, but I have no idea what CarMax has done to the vehicle now and don't want to find out. This is so stupid and it's easiest for all parties if they just honor the deal and take the car. It's a good car!
Afternoon edit:
The local branch just called me back again asking when I'm coming in. I asked for more info and they still gave me nothing. I asked why this typically happens and the guy said usually due to past dealings with CarMax, which I've never done, if that's the reason here. He also said that they've stopped payment on the bank draft, so now that'll be clawed back at some point. CarMax is now not honoring a signed contract after the fact. I'm waiting for a call back from my lawyers.
This is my first interaction with this company. What an impression.
MORNING UPDATE 12.22.21 (day 3).
I'm caving and going to get my car. After CarMax pulled back the bank draft, my lawyer said this is getting too ugly and best bet is to just cave in. Otherwise, as some Redditors have stated, this could be a drawn out legal battle for months, and while I'm 100% in the right here, CarMax is using financial muscle to bully me into reversing a contract that they signed. I'm right, but they have leverage, and right now that leverage is to not pay off the loan on the car and claw back the bank draft. If I had $50,000 lying around in cash I'd happily fight this, but I don't and this isn't worth the risk anymore. I would need to liquidate some things I'd rather not to get me through a legal battle over $22,000.
Which is insane. It is obviously way easier to just pay me and my loan company, so there is something seriously wrong here. I've never done business with CarMax before, and this is the only car I've ever purchased new or ever tried to sell (all of my other cars were used and died in my custody, the poor bastards).
All I can assume is that CarMax thinks I'm someone else and they aren't giving me any way to correct it or even understand what's going on. They also clearly see me as a big enough risk to breach their own contracts and open themselves up to a lawsuit. This is $21,000 to me, but to them I guess I look like an unquantifiable liability, which would be worth lots of money to them to keep me away. I wonder how much money they lose every year by completely overreacting to threats that don't actually exist?
Anyway, I'll be filing a complaint with the attorney general later today with my lawyer, and if I can't sell the car for the same value I'll be taking CarMax to small claims court for the difference. Maybe at that point I'll learn why they think I'm a terrorist or something.
Now I have more immediate worries. I'm heading back to the CarMax location and have no idea what to expect. Ideally they give me the keys and we're done. But if they demand I return the money, I have a problem because if they've already initiated a clawback on that money, they'll double-dip and take $22,000 from me and who the fuck knows if they'll make that right. Highly doubtful given that they want nothing to do with me. So I'd be totally fucked and need to sue them in big claims court. Next, if they try to make me sign anything, I'm to immediately leave and call my lawyer. If they put me in a situation where I need to sign ANOTHER agreement with CarMax to get my car back, it will be extortion and I'll be signing under duress or leaving and continuing to fight (this time as a criminal offense, not civil).
So even though I'm caving in, I'm still super fucking nervous and stressed out about what arbitrary bullshit this company is going to pull on me next.
And that's not even considering what harm they may have done to my car in the 48 hours they've had it. I will ask for a copy of the appraisal they did and the original copy of the power of attorney for my vehicle. I do not trust this company and feel like I need to document every single thing. I'll probably take it straight to Mazda for a full condition report.
Goddamn this. I'm so burned out over this crap.
I'll let y'all know how it goes. I hope it's a super boring update and my life can go back to normal, but I'm sure you'd all hate that. :)
Evening update 12.22.21 (Day 3)
Well it's all over. I picked up the car this morning. We stopped at our bank first and asked their advice about the bank draft. They said to absolutely not write a check and just wait for the stop payment to go through so that the amount wouldn't be deducted twice. We then went to CarMax.
Where I just totally malfunctioned. I was so angry at this point that when the desk person asked how they could help us I said that CarMax was committing fraud and trying to reverse a valid contract so he should contact the branch manager because he's expecting me.
That got him on the radio pretty quick and a manager walked over and took me to the business office, where they then made us wait in the same fucking chairs we sat in for two hours when selling the damn car.
Really?
Anyway, the business office manager who had been calling me came out and honestly couldn't be nicer. To my surprise, he was comfortable talking about what happened openly in front of everyone else waiting, and they all perked up and started listening.
He apologized and said he had no information, just that it needed to be unwound. We told him about what our bank said and he said that was totally fine and to let the stop payment do its thing. He did ask us to sign something that said the sale never happened, and bless my wife because she kept her cool and said,
"OK, but we'll need to see the form first because our attorney advised us not to sign anything without talking to her first, so that part may take a few minutes.". Well put, hun. Proud of her for that. She also banned me from talking anymore, which was a good call TBH.
Anyway, I also asked for copies of everything, and he got those while we waited for the car to pull around.
As some people said, it was clearly not touched at all and in the exact same condition as we dropped it off. They hadn't even washed it yet. The seat was adjusted, but that was it.
The manager himself put the plates back on it, but when time came he said they wouldn't ask us to sign anything afterall and gave us the keys and that was it. Having an attorney makes a real difference, even when they don't actually do anything.
I looked over the car inside and out, under the hood and underneath. I hadn't fully detailed it so there was dust in a lot of places which is a good thing because disturbed dirt and dust is the easiest sign of someone working on anything in or around the car, and it hadn't been touched. The mileage was identical, the underside was untouched and there was no damage to anything. It drove normally.
So this part of the story is over with. I called CarMax corporate on the way home to try to understand what happened and see if I can get answers I want to know what list I'm on, if they'll even tell me, and see if I can clear it up. My business with them is over permanently though. I'll be filing a complaint with my AG tomorrow (Aunt got called to babysit her niece today, the downside of a free family lawyer), and I'll take CarMax to small claims court if I have to sell it for less than the CarMax offer. Having a judgment against them for this bullshit is at least one thing I can get out of it.
CarMax clearly doesn't consider itself bound by their own contracts. Rules for thee, not for me seems to be their MO. I'll never go near them again. Unless something drastic happens, this will be my last update. I'll make a new post for the small claims stuff since that wont happen for a while yet while I sort the rest of this out.
And lastly, for kickers, everything else has gone wrong this week on top of this. The dishwasher finally gave up the ghost and the catalytic converter was stolen out from under our Ford while it was parked on the street.
I'm not shitting you all, when I got in it yesterday to run an errand, it was super loud. They cut the exhaust pipes and did it right in front of a police camera. Total insanity. So on top of all of this CarMax bullshit yesterday, I had to file a police report and start and insurance claim. We take the Ford to the shop tomorrow for that work to begin.
This has been the worst Christmas vacation I've ever had.
But thank you to everyone commenting here. The first time I laughed in more than a day was when I read a comment wondering which sub this would end up in next. I really needed that chuckle, so Thank you.
Oh and btw, most of you give terrible, terrible advice, so I'm glad I had a lawyer through all of this. But what you all did do was provide moral support and solidarity though a seriously awful, stressful thing, and I appreciate all of you for it.
Best of luck to you all, and beware which car dealership you use.
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Once again, I am not OOP.