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[–]yen223longbowman > chu-ko-nu 69 points70 points  (9 children)

This is an awesome guide. Should be sidebar'd.

I want to add a few more tips/exploits:

  • Scouts are cheaper than workers. If you have to sacrifice your scout to save the workers, it's still a worthwhile trade.
  • Keep an eye out for civs which adopted Liberty (Consul xxx). They will pop a free worker + a free settler that can be stolen.
  • If you know how to radar (use a civilian unit to figure out which tiles have units on them), then you can safely send your newly-kidnapped worker back unescorted, freeing up your scout/warrior to steal another unit.
  • Enemy scouts are set to auto-explore, which means they will not attempt to capture civilian units (not intentionally anyway). You can safely walk your unescorted worker right next to an enemy scout.
  • Don't forget to pillage caravans for 100g
  • When making peace, you can try selling your lux/embassy for a lump sum amount of gold. Embassies sell for 35g (which is better than 1gpt), and luxes sell for 240g.

[–]moonboatingbears[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Scouts are cheaper than workers. If you have to sacrifice your scout to save the workers, it's still a worthwhile trade.

True (scouts are only 25 ), and a good point.

Enemy scouts are set to auto-explore, which means they will not attempt to capture civilian units (not intentionally anyway). You can safely walk your unescorted worker right next to an enemy scout.

This is a really excellent tip! I knew that AI scouts don't steal workers/attack units, but I was unaware of the exact reason until now.

Don't forget to pillage caravans for 100g

Also, pillaging caravans does not use MP, and you can pillage a caravan just by standing in its path and letting it travel through you.

[–]skeetoTerrace farms FTW[M] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is an awesome guide. Should be sidebar'd.

Agreed and done.

[–]Emperorerror 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Could you elaborate on the radar thing or give me a link? Thanks for all the info.

[–]RossiAle 13 points14 points  (4 children)

radar

I think it's because u can see if civil unit can move or not in tile, if it can't move there is a unit.

[–]Emperorerror 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Ah ok. Thank you. Does that work the same for military units?

[–]RossiAle 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Nope, military units don't have "radar" because you can fight the unit on the tile you're checking.

[–]Emperorerror 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah, that makes sense. Thanks again!

[–]anonymousxo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

6 years later, thanks.

[–]LordOfTheHorns 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Instead of looking for (consul xxx) you can go under the diplomacy menu, open the diplomacy overview and look at global politics. Not only does it show you what policies AI's have opened (unfortunately not openers) it shows what era of research they are in, wonders they have built, political motions against other civs and city-state alliances.

[–]Rud3l 18 points19 points  (5 children)

Why would you stop on the 2nd worker? I usually take 4, sometimes even 5. I do not build any workers myself if everything works out as planned.

It is important that you ideally do not pull this on a Cultural or Religious CS, because of their great bonusses. You are better off doing their Barbarian quests and get them early. Military and Maritime CS are not that important, so you are good to go. And you may want to attack a CS that is not pledged by another AI because it will give you a diplomatic modifier and mark you as an aggressor. Although I think it's still worth it, if nothing else is possible.

Regarding the number of stolen workers: you can steal them until they build a Composite Bow. A Comp Bow + City will destroy your Scout and I do not think that this is worth it. So thats the last worker you steal, after that you immediately declare the end of war.

I usually play on Immortal on it works pretty good.

[–]moonboatingbears[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Great question!

Why would you stop on the 2nd worker?

You're right--I don't always stop after 2 workers, but often there are a couple reasons to do so:
1. After T50 or so (esp. on Deity) I often find that AIs have crazy amounts of units running around (and as you mentioned, CB will wreck your scouts). This makes worker stealing more difficult, and also much more variable/luck-based.
2. By the time I've stolen 2 workers, I often would rather be at peace with the AI. That way I can send them a caravan/not worry about caravans to other AI neighbors being pillaged, and there is a chance they could send me a caravan as well.
3. I normally worker steal with my scouts, but after 2 workers I would rather explore and meet the rest of the AIs, in order to sell them luxes (which I don't have up until after my 1st captured workers get back).
 

It is important that you ideally do not pull this on a Cultural or Religious CS

Regarding city states: declaring war on 1 CS and then making peace will NOT give you any permanent diplo hit, although you do suffer from negative influence for a while (see /u/gia257's comment). Declaring war multiple times against a CS (either multiple times against the same CS or against one CS and then another CS) WILL give you a permanent diplo hit.

Stealing workers late game has a higher opportunity cost (there are normally things I'd rather be doing with units and I miss out on caravans), and has a lower relative benefit (normally saving around 5 turns as opposed to 10-15 turns).
However, I do try to keep an eye out for barbarian-captured workers/un-escorted settlers I can snipe.

[–]goldragon 6 points7 points  (3 children)

You are taking multiple workers from the same CS? And this doesn't affect the resting point of your influence with them after you make peace?

I know I have tried stealing multiple workers, one each from two different CS, and the resting point for the second CS said it would rest at -20 or -30 (can't remember exactly) for the second CS I declared war on.

[–]Rud3l 9 points10 points  (0 children)

You need to stick to one CS, never steal from different ones. Stealing multiple workers from one CS will not change anything, as soon as you make peace they are at 0 / neutral.

edit: obviously I always keep the CS so long in a state of war that they are back at 0 when I make peace.

[–]gia257 9 points10 points  (0 children)

when you declare war you go to minimum, and it slowly goes back to neutral as you war, assuming no one will get pissed off at your war you could technically leave the war up and keep stealing

[–]Jacksknack 9 points10 points  (1 child)

T8-15: Best chance of stealing workers from an AI out of their first expand. Workers are most likely working on primary improvements, such as pastures, farms, or mines.

T20: First CS worker out. AI workers most likely working on secondary improvements, such as calendar, quarries, or roads.

T30: This can sometimes be a good opportunity to steal more workers from the AI: occasionally the AI will leave their cities relatively unguarded, or their workers might be improving tiles in the 3-ring (and are easier to steal safely there).

T45: Second CS worker out.

I've been looking for this info for SUCH a long time. THANK YOU!

[–]moonboatingbears[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You're welcome!

[–]AGQ-Burn, baby, burn 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Sydney did see your scout. Way I understand it, you get vision one tile around your borders, as well as vision of hills two tiles away (unless they are completely blocked by forested hills/mountains) and mountains three tiles away. Camping two tiles away on flat land gives you vision of the pillaged tile but doesn't give AI vision of you.

[–]moonboatingbears[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thanks--did not know that!

[–]decapodw 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Camp two tiles outside their border (out of their sight)

The important thing to note here is that you have to camp on flat land. They have sight on hills two tiles away from the border (same as the player).

[–]garmeth06[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To clarify, the AI can see UP hills that are two tiles away from the edge of their border?

So if I sit on a hill two tiles away they will not send a worker to their border?

What if their border tile is a hill?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always try to steal at least one worker from another civ (on top of the "free" worker from a CS) as well! I found that if you do this after meeting a lot of civs, they are more likely to refuse to make trade deals with you though, so try to do it to the first/ second civ you meet.

And also, for those who are unaware, if you Declare War on two different city states (or one city state two seperate times) in a short period of time, then you will receive a PERMANENT diplomatic penalty with every city state on the map.

[–]marsworth7000Casually crossing your mountains 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is really good, very helpful for new players.

[–]KSPReptileMountain King 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I usually only steal workers from CS, but I might try this next time, thanks for the guide.

[–]walterorflynn 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Do you generally find that scout stealing from the AI is worth both the eternal diplomatic penalty you get by declaring war on them as well as the warmonger penalties?

I've limited my scout stealing to CSs for precisely this reason. It takes me a while into the game before I can erase warmongering penalties by freeing a captured CS, and in the meantime that can result in nasty set backs like trade refusals, or punitive measures like embargoes or luxury bans from the First World Congress onwards.

[–]yen223longbowman > chu-ko-nu 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The warmonger penalty in the Ancient era is so small that you can get away with stealing workers from 2 different AIs, without any permanent diplo hit.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Warmonger penalty for declaring war is minuscule compared to the penalty for actually capturing cities. You can steal workers from AIs in the early game and they'll be totally fine with you 20 turns after you've made peace, as long as they don't have any other reason to dislike you.

[–]Captain_Wozzeckcivscience.wordpress.com 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome guide. Stealing workers from the AI was the biggest improvement I could make on my deity games. I also love how the AI will offer a DOF a few turns after peace! They really don't care!

[–]Slut_Balls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what about Quick speed? you seemed to have a guarantee of t20 for first CS worker, is it 15 on Quick or?

[–]Bonesnapcall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I got 3 workers before turn 30 from Netherlands yesterday doing this.