Love, Us: 5 Queer Elders Tell Us About the Greatest Loves of Their Lives

Welcome to Love, Us, a column for telling queer love stories in all their glory. (And by glory, we mean all the big, beautiful moments and otherworldly little details that make making and falling in queer love so, so fun.) Read more from the series here.

The day after I moved into my apartment, my upstairs neighbor was outside watering the garden. “Let’s exchange numbers,” she said when I walked outside. “My name is Susan Grimm, like those brothers. And my wife is Anne, I’ll spell her last name. It’s ‘B’ as in bitch.”

I laughed so hard then that it was months before I actually figured out Anne’s last name.

In those months in between, I learned that Susan and Anne (66 and 67 respectively) moved to San Francisco after falling in love in college, just around the time when Harvey (as in Milk, as in they were on a first-name basis) was elected. They partied at Sylvester’s place (as in the disco icon, as in their friend dated him for a while), and have been married twice (both times to each other — Prop 8 cut the first one short).

Unfortunately, I wasn’t born to gay moms, but Susan and Anne baked me a homemade chicken pot pie the day I moved in, and sometimes Susan lets herself in through our backdoor and leaves fresh lemons she picks on our counter. Also, when I found myself in a relationship with someone who shared my first name, Susan looked me right in the eyes and said, “And that’s why they call us queer,” before turning around and walking inside. I imagine this is what having gay moms is like, so, when I decided to interview queer elders about love, they were at the top of my list. “No one’s ever asked us anything like this,” Susan said. “We’re fucking touched.” (You can take the girl out of New Jersey…)

As it turned out, that sentiment was also shared by the other three people I interviewed. Ms. Billie Cooper, 63, and Renée Imperato, 73, are both veterans and both trans women who, although they live on different coasts, share the fact that they are smarter than most other people I’ve ever talked to. And Miguel Gutierrez, 75, moved to San Francisco from South America, makes art out of found objects, and is in the throes of a budding relationship.

The below conversations took place over four separate Zoom calls, and have been edited and condensed for clarity. Please enjoy, as I did, their ruminations on love, dating, and (as Renée put it) the prison that is cis monogamy.

Garrett: Ok, let’s start off simple. What’s your name and how do you identify?

Susan: I’m Susan Grimm and this is Anne Brack, and we’re gay. 

Anne: Yep, that’s right. 

Ms. Billie Cooper: My name is Ms. Billie Cooper. I am an African-American disabled Naval veteran. My pronouns are her/she, but not like the chocolate bar. I'm also a person thriving and surviving with HIV.

Renée Imperato: My name is Renée Andrea Imperato. Somebody asked me recently what my preferred pronoun was. And I said I don't have a preferred pronoun. I have an effing — can I say the word? Ok, I said I have a fucking pronoun. She/her.

Miguel Gutierrez: I’m Miguel Gutierrez, I’m gay, and my birthday was yesterday, I’m 75. It’s 2-2-22, I should be wearing a tutu [laughs].

Susan and Anne, how did you meet?

Susan: We met during our freshman year in college. We were friends for about a year, and then we realized we weren't just friends.

How did you realize you weren’t just friends?

Susan: Well, I had the flutters in the stomach. I couldn't wait to see her. And I never — I didn't have any boyfriends, girlfriends. I just had friends and I knew she wasn't just my friend. I wanted to be with her.

Anne: It was different. It felt different.

Was Susan your first girlfriend?

Anne: No, she wasn't. She was my second girlfriend. And I had boyfriends before that too, in high school. So I had a little more experience than she did.

Susan: A lot more. [Laughs]

Miguel, Renée, and Ms. Billie Cooper, what are your relationship situations?

Ms. Billie Cooper: You know, I'm not in love right now, but I am in like right now. I lost my left eye in 2009, but, you know, I have one left to see people for who they really are, so I’m taking things slow. But I am in like.

Miguel: In my life, I’ve had four special relationships. The first one was when I was in my twenties. It was so exciting to be something to somebody. The second one was more like, very about having sex and all that stuff. The third one is the one I idolize. Everything clicked. It’s not exactly what I had in mind, but it turned out even better. He was meat and potatoes and I was taco and burritos.

After he died, I didn’t know if I would want to be with someone else, but I met this guy. He works for the ballet. I think he wants to be something, but I don’t know, he’s very young, in his early fifties. We’ll see. But I think everyone kind of has those four.

Renée: You know, I drove a taxi for 27 years. When I didn't make enough on the meter, I made it in the back seat. I’ve had a lot of relationships in my life. I’m polyamorous — I read this quote one time, love is not possession and possession is not love — that’s how I live. I’m not dating anyone right now and I’m also dating everyone right now.

What’s the best date you’ve ever been on?

Ms. Billie Cooper: You know, there used to be a time when I thought all I could get, or, all I was accustomed to, was McDonald's or a Subway sandwich. But now I at least know I deserve to go to a prime rib place, you know, a nice restaurant. A Cheesecake Factory.

Anytime I’ve gotten to do that, and just sit and get to know the person, that’s the best.

Miguel: Oh my boyfriend, the third one, the long one. Once he got me a very tiny red speedo. I was like, what is this for? And on the card it said, it was for us to go to Mykonos. We did candles in the bathtub and roses on the bed — it was like it was from the movies. You know, you see that and you always want something like that.

Renée: The best dates I’ve ever been on were with other sex workers. I remember one, this guy, Paul, when I was, frankly, more attracted to men than I am now — you know, men will never fucking dominate me, honey, forget that shit — but he was an Adonis and we were competing for the same trick. Right? And, oh my God. I mean the money Paul would make. This one guy would pay him $300 just to shave his ass and nothing else.

Anyway, he beat me to the trick, but then he came back and we had a great time. It was always easier with other sex workers, because jealousy was out the window, because you’re looking out of the same window. It probably lasted for a year.

What still makes your heart flutter?

Susan: [looking at Anne] Go ahead…

Anne: I would say it's her kisses probably, for me, and her smile.

Susan: Same here, her laugh. She's got a great laugh. That makes me smile. When she looks at me and smiles. And when we go for walks, when she holds my hand, just stuff like that. Waking up, saying good morning. You know, little things. You realize how lucky you are.

Renée: Ah, well, sometimes it’s just that look. Sometimes it's not a word. Sometimes it's a speechless behavioral pattern.

And in New York, I'm sort of known as the queen mother, or simply mamma. I feel a great tenderness when people talk to me that way, so that does it too.

Ms. Billie Cooper: Just thinking about falling in love. I think I would actually see butterflies, or I would see that little angel, that little red person with the bow and arrow. I haven't had those feelings in a long time, I would really love to get those feelings again.

What do you think makes queer love special?

Miguel: It’s very unique. You know, not everyone is like us, so it’s special. Our love doesn’t have any barriers. I think people who go both ways are very lucky, you can find so much love. When I was growing up people only talked about being gay or being a lesbian; now there’s room for everybody.

Renée: The first thing that comes to my mind is the unbridled honesty and collective realness. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, I really don't, but to me, cis monogamy is like jail. And you know what’s the best thing? Loving freely.

Queer love, in many ways, is the most honest. I'm not saying that non-queer love is dishonest. I just said the most honest. We're not better than other people who don't possess our consciousness, but we are more enlightened.

Susan: For me, it's the effort. Right? Because at least for us, you know, we were in the closet mostly and people didn't really know. You had no one to look to to demonstrate how to do it.

I think it's special because it takes some work. We know we were pretty fortunate.

Anne: You know, I think straight people take it for granted that this is just how things are, and it's just easy to fall in love with somebody. But it's a little harder when you're a gay person. The work makes it special, you have to try a little harder to work at it, you know?

What would you tell younger queer people about dating and relationships?

Ms. Billie Cooper: This is Ms. Billy Cooper speaking! My rules about falling in and out of love are: know yourself first, know yourself, be all you can be for yourself. Be true to yourself. Don't go into any relationships with expectations, and make sure they have all three [COVID] shots. Walk into relationships with eyes wide open, and always expect the unexpected.

Miguel: Be yourself. You don't have to pretend to be anything. Be honest, be willing to give and take. Be willing to experiment with the other person.

Also, give the other person space, don’t rush things. Don’t be desperate! Things have a way of working out very nicely if you let the universe help you.

Susan: Make sure you actually like them! That you have things in common. You have to listen. Like, don’t talk. Listen.

Anne: Have patience. Take time. Don’t rush. Support them and their goals and their dreams.

Susan: Be a team.

Renée: Don’t be inhibited. Don't be tied down, and don't be swayed too quickly towards someone who's affectionate to you.

Don’t read too much into rejection. How many people could have had one of the most fabulous, beautiful relationships of their life, but they were afraid? Don’t let some stranger down the street trick you into living by their rules. Just say, hey, screw your rules. And love to break them.

Love, Us: Why Don't We Kiss Our Friends More?

We're queer. We get to write our own rules. Consensual intimacy among friends can be one of them.

After our interviews, I couldn’t stop seeing, as Ms. Billie Cooper put it, that little red person with the bow and arrow. I oscillate every day, probably every three hours, between believing that love is real and all around us, and thinking that my last relationship was definitely my last. Luckily, I was able to pull my head out of my own ass long enough to allow myself to be blessed by these five legends, who are reminders to us all that life is long and love is plentiful. It will look like different things, it will feel like different things, and, in many ways, it is for us to shape and mold into the way we want it to be. Queer love is freedom, not a prison.

And, for what it’s worth, I’m positive I won’t die alone because Ms. Billie Cooper said she would be praying for me to find my next boyfriend, to which I replied, “From your mouth to God’s ears.” Praying for boyfriends over Zoom with trans elders? As Susan would say, that’s why they call us queer.

“Love, Us” is looking for readers to reach out about your queer love stories. Have a love letter to share or a story you’d like to tell? Send a note to loveussubmissions@gmail.com with all the details, in 500 words or less, and we might just be in touch.

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