The point about Leefbaar is valid, but not only for Rotterdam. The Dutch display a form of anti syzygy when it come to their politics. The second biggest party in the Dutch parliament is Wilders’ bunch of bigots. It’s something which is found to be inconvenient when the country tries to present itself as a tolerant, harmonious society. As in other countries, populism is on the march in the Netherlands, Wilders and, more recently, Baudet are symptomatic of something. That something is a large degree of dissatisfaction.
I think that your logic is illogical to most people. Leaving the EU (cut the bullshit about the European project) means that EU citizens will be affected by the restrictions Priti Patel is gagging to impose. One of the biggest lies Brexiteers still tell is that xenophobia was not a factor in the no to the EU vote.
To be fair: the plans to build a 'new Rotterdam" were already largely in place before the Luftwaffe struck. Take for example the Maastunnel, which was started before and finished during the war. With considerable effort since the germans had other uses for all the concrete. The old city-centre was badly run down, and was slated for demolishment. So was the ancient harbor which was still very much in the city centre (and a primary target of the raid). The bombardment sped up things, not in the least because now it had been thoroughly demolished.
The Rotterdam city-planners (in a typical Rotterdam attitude of "handen uit de mouwen" a.k.a. "getting things done") started working on the plans with even greater fervor, as they wanted to keep 'in charge' and avoid the nazi's to create/implement their own reconstruction plans in their authoritarian Neo-classicism style a la Speer.
Grenfell could not happen in the Netherlands? I have lived in the country since 1977 and I seen what the Dutch refer to as rampen. In Enschede in 2000, for example. A whole working class area was blown to smithereens and quite a few people died or were badly injured. I am not saying that Grenfell or Enschede is the norm, but with increasing inequality, also in the Netherlands, housing for a large proportion of populations has become problem number one. “Alternative housing” is a euphemism which means take what you are given or offered.
Gentrification? I just do not think gentrification is anything other than property speculation, dressed up with a few ameliorative slogans, such as improving diversity and creating a new social balance. Are the less well off people in Katendrecht going to benefit from the current gentrification process? Not at all, in ten years time property prices or rents will be out of their price range, if not a lot earlier. Rotterdam has seen property prices and rents shooting through the roof in the last few years and speculation is rife. Call it gentrification, if you wish, but it boils down to the same thing.
Argumentum ad baculum at its best - much as one can agree with your position, one cannot agree with your argumentation and utterly disrespectful way of presenting it
And here? Nope. Check it out, quite an eye-opener for ya. ViaMr YouTube
When investigating all things EU & NL before moving, I stayed in nearby Schiedam (in a B&B in 'S'dam', a town just to the West - by bike only 12-13mins from Centraal).
Did all my research in this beautiful, meditative restored building.
If in Rotterdam and desiring of a pre-WW2 vibe, central S'dam is very quiet, but very special.
Of course the poor have a right to the highest standard of accommodation. Why wouldn't they? Do you want me to argue that they should be corralled into slums like the ultimate 'other'? And yes I believe in economic mix, because it's healthier and the alternative ends in sink estates and legally enforced townships which I believe is far worse.
Actually the Netherlands has, to my view, a far greater economic mix than the UK, even while supporting a much lower wealth disparity. Partially it's because it's a smaller country and everything is scaled down. You're never more than five streets away from a different scale of housing(!) But also because that is simply the Dutch approach. This is a country where people assert their rights (and we all have the right to whatever the next guy has(!)) The residents who are threatened with being moved out challenged the Housing Association legally, that was their right, and I wholly support them doing that.
And as for Rotterdam city politics and residency rules (alluded to in posts higher up), I don't agree with all of it and I intend to challenge it. When I move into Rotterdam I'm bring my city vote with me and I intend to use it. But that's because I see the city as a community I want to join, and it's a community full of all social groups. It has to be or why are we doing this?
And I'm not sure what your point about Grenfell Tower is, could you expand? Grenfell Tower was and is an appalling example of civic and societal failure and sadly I can't help feeling there are elements in that failure that are almost uniquely British. So I'm not sure why you would think it would happen here? Or is that not what you are saying?
If you're going to continue suggestions on locations abroad you might want to move to, maybe include local job opportunities and pay etc. Also direct to the government official information regarding rules and paperwork you might require etc.
Greater Rotterdam might have 1,2 million people but by this count then British or German cities are far bigger. Rotterdam itself is 650.00. If you live in, say, Hoek van Holland or another satellite town, in the eyes of both Rotterdammers and the outlying residents you do not live in Rotterdam. There is a huge difference between an administrative district and a city’s historical boundaries.
The poor have a right to the highest standard of accommodation within a social mix? This sounds like the familiar refrain trotted out by well educated people who are moving into rundown areas because property is cheap. The reality for poor people is Grenfell Tower.
Nonsense. Theres loads of pubs clubs concerts and things to do at cgeap prices. We have a Rotterdam card for years, fantastic range of things to do for all tha family for literally nothing.
So the numbers I provided are good, Netherlands is far safer than the UK but now apparantly I am living in a bubble? How exactly?
I am not a so called ex pat. My kids go to public Dutch school, I work for a Dutch speaking company, I go out in Rotterdam regularly, do my shopping there etc, please explain.
Didnt realise British tax was so low, explains a lot like the shocking state of British roads, railways, absence of flood protection, insane cost of schooling, university.
But I would be willing to bet that if you weighed up all the pros and cons, the Dutch system delivers far better value for your tax money as it largely avoids private enterprise taking huge profut from the cake.
I wouldn’t say “special” but do you think France and Spain will introduce an immigration policy that stops UK nationals buying property and retiring there? I think you’re a little simple if you truly believe that.
Oh please the chap answered your point and you come back with that? You’ve always needed skills to go to most advantageous countries to live. That’s been mostly the whole immigration issue into the UK unskilled en masse, look at UK nationals going the other way myself included mostly educated filling a job role, self employed mostly skilled or retired all of those spending money and paying lots of tax. If you want to live in Europe the way won’t be closed for any of those three.
London is one of the very few mega city's in Europe.
By the way the port of Rotterdam extents 42km's from the City centre to the North Sea, so although London has more inhabitants I wonder if it covers a larger area.
Your comment to say that leefbaar nederland the largest party is misleading. They have the most seats 11 out of 34 but that doesn’t mean they have a majority. It’s obvious you’re twisting facts giving a negative picture of Rotterdam
Rotterdam has, after Amsterdam, seen the largest rise in house prices the last 5 years. So, there's a point to what he says but the differences with The Hague arent really very pronounced.
Yes, and 49% above that. And yes, we all complain but at the end of the day we prefer having good schools, good healthcare, good infrastructure and a government that invests in the country instead of giving it away to the 0.1% who are party donors.
It isnt. However, Rotterdam has a huge imbalance in terms of income compared to the surrounding towns which benefit from Rotterdams industry and jobs.
The city of Rotterdam wants to redress the balance by building more homes for middle incomes and moving the welfare recipients to the towns around Rotterdam which have been creaming off the middle and higher incomes.
But when I lived in Rotterdam I wasn't a cool guy. We went to the cool street next to Chinatown and had the lush beers on Friday, with toast, ah it was all better before i got old lol
Indeed. Speaking as an introvert I find the best view of London is the one in the rear view mirror. Same for Amsterdam. Ditto Paris. Rotterdam comes with a feeling of wide open space and a freshening wind from the west. Add that to the culture and what's not to love?!?
True. The Markthal was screwed up by the Crash of 2008/9. It was a waterlogged hole in the ground for more than a year. Then NL went through a brief Calvinist horror show called bezuiningen or austerity to Brits. Municipal funds were cut. The Markthal was sold off, disaster-capitalist-wise, to a rather greedy mall-management group, who proceeded to charge exorbitant prices for stall space so they could make a fast profit. Still, some fabulous food establishments moved in and sold high quality victuals, sometimes too high to compensate for the owner greed but sometimes not. Finally, about three years ago, all the good food sellers threw in the towel. Now there's very little left. Snack bars for tourists. Very sad. There is still hope that the owners will be forced to sell and that the city can buy it. Fenix is in buildings being renovated for condos, so not much future. It would be great if those people could relocate to the Markthal. Then we'd have what we were promised from the start.
Ik denk dat Amsterdam is een hele leuk stad, een daar is heel veel mooie staden, maar Rotterdam is niet een. Ik vindt Rotterdam heel saai en deprimerend. Zeker, er zijn een paar levendige plaatsen maar niet zo veel, tenzij jij heeft geld Rotterdam is niet een plaats voor jou.
Let’s move to Rotterdam: Eurovision’s new home
Comments
Trains to London that connect with Eurostar services also exist.
Ik woon hier, druilaap.
And defeated Athens.
The point about Leefbaar is valid, but not only for Rotterdam. The Dutch display a form of anti syzygy when it come to their politics. The second biggest party in the Dutch parliament is Wilders’ bunch of bigots. It’s something which is found to be inconvenient when the country tries to present itself as a tolerant, harmonious society. As in other countries, populism is on the march in the Netherlands, Wilders and, more recently, Baudet are symptomatic of something. That something is a large degree of dissatisfaction.
If you live in London. Surprise, surprise, the UK outside of London does actually exist.
Pub Quiz on Tuesdays.
That’s an achievement, after 16 years.
Bit like your mind. You should feel at home there.
You take the prize for bloody ignorance, no mean achievement amongst arrant Brexiteers.
I think that your logic is illogical to most people.
Leaving the EU (cut the bullshit about the European project) means that EU citizens will be affected by the restrictions Priti Patel is gagging to impose. One of the biggest lies Brexiteers still tell is that xenophobia was not a factor in the no to the EU vote.
To be fair: the plans to build a 'new Rotterdam" were already largely in place before the Luftwaffe struck. Take for example the Maastunnel, which was started before and finished during the war. With considerable effort since the germans had other uses for all the concrete.
The old city-centre was badly run down, and was slated for demolishment. So was the ancient harbor which was still very much in the city centre (and a primary target of the raid). The bombardment sped up things, not in the least because now it had been thoroughly demolished.
The Rotterdam city-planners (in a typical Rotterdam attitude of "handen uit de mouwen" a.k.a. "getting things done") started working on the plans with even greater fervor, as they wanted to keep 'in charge' and avoid the nazi's to create/implement their own reconstruction plans in their authoritarian Neo-classicism style a la Speer.
Weather is determined by how flat a country is? You should have applied to replace Michael Fish.
Might be, but Catchytitled is quoting from a song by Beautiful South.
Close enough; it's "Hendrik Ido Ambacht"
I live on the Coolhaven-island. Pretty cool!
Grenfell could not happen in the Netherlands? I have lived in the country since 1977 and I seen what the Dutch refer to as rampen. In Enschede in 2000, for example. A whole working class area was blown to smithereens and quite a few people died or were badly injured. I am not saying that Grenfell or Enschede is the norm, but with increasing inequality, also in the Netherlands, housing for a large proportion of populations has become problem number one. “Alternative housing” is a euphemism which means take what you are given or offered.
Gentrification? I just do not think gentrification is anything other than property speculation, dressed up with a few ameliorative slogans, such as improving diversity and creating a new social balance. Are the less well off people in Katendrecht going to benefit from the current gentrification process? Not at all, in ten years time property prices or rents will be out of their price range, if not a lot earlier. Rotterdam has seen property prices and rents shooting through the roof in the last few years and speculation is rife. Call it gentrification, if you wish, but it boils down to the same thing.
Argumentum ad baculum at its best - much as one can agree with your position, one cannot agree with your argumentation and utterly disrespectful way of presenting it
How long did you live in Rotterdam?
try here (english button on RHS)
http://www.jobsinrotterdam.nl/
Libraries.
UK shuts theirs.
And here? Nope.
Check it out, quite an eye-opener for ya. Via Mr YouTube
When investigating all things EU & NL before moving, I stayed in nearby Schiedam (in a B&B in 'S'dam', a town just to the West - by bike only 12-13mins from Centraal).
Did all my research in this beautiful, meditative restored building.
If in Rotterdam and desiring of a pre-WW2 vibe, central S'dam is very quiet, but very special.
I think that's a misunderstanding of my post.
Of course the poor have a right to the highest standard of accommodation. Why wouldn't they? Do you want me to argue that they should be corralled into slums like the ultimate 'other'? And yes I believe in economic mix, because it's healthier and the alternative ends in sink estates and legally enforced townships which I believe is far worse.
Actually the Netherlands has, to my view, a far greater economic mix than the UK, even while supporting a much lower wealth disparity. Partially it's because it's a smaller country and everything is scaled down. You're never more than five streets away from a different scale of housing(!) But also because that is simply the Dutch approach. This is a country where people assert their rights (and we all have the right to whatever the next guy has(!)) The residents who are threatened with being moved out challenged the Housing Association legally, that was their right, and I wholly support them doing that.
And as for Rotterdam city politics and residency rules (alluded to in posts higher up), I don't agree with all of it and I intend to challenge it. When I move into Rotterdam I'm bring my city vote with me and I intend to use it. But that's because I see the city as a community I want to join, and it's a community full of all social groups. It has to be or why are we doing this?
And I'm not sure what your point about Grenfell Tower is, could you expand? Grenfell Tower was and is an appalling example of civic and societal failure and sadly I can't help feeling there are elements in that failure that are almost uniquely British. So I'm not sure why you would think it would happen here? Or is that not what you are saying?
I always have this argument... Haha! Chacun son goût.
True. But they started out being extremely low, much lower than The Hague until ten or fifteen years ago.
If you're going to continue suggestions on locations abroad you might want to move to, maybe include local job opportunities and pay etc. Also direct to the government official information regarding rules and paperwork you might require etc.
Greater Rotterdam might have 1,2 million people but by this count then British or German cities are far bigger. Rotterdam itself is 650.00. If you live in, say, Hoek van Holland or another satellite town, in the eyes of both Rotterdammers and the outlying residents you do not live in Rotterdam. There is a huge difference between an administrative district and a city’s historical boundaries.
The poor have a right to the highest standard of accommodation within a social mix? This sounds like the familiar refrain trotted out by well educated people who are moving into rundown areas because property is cheap. The reality for poor people is Grenfell Tower.
You have to compliment Google translate Dutch. This is krakkemikkig Dutch.
Wonderfull story of misleading half truths totally out of context painting a picture that in no way reflects reality.
Nonsense. Theres loads of pubs clubs concerts and things to do at cgeap prices. We have a Rotterdam card for years, fantastic range of things to do for all tha family for literally nothing.
So the numbers I provided are good, Netherlands is far safer than the UK but now apparantly I am living in a bubble? How exactly?
I am not a so called ex pat. My kids go to public Dutch school, I work for a Dutch speaking company, I go out in Rotterdam regularly, do my shopping there etc, please explain.
Didnt realise British tax was so low, explains a lot like the shocking state of British roads, railways, absence of flood protection, insane cost of schooling, university.
But I would be willing to bet that if you weighed up all the pros and cons, the Dutch system delivers far better value for your tax money as it largely avoids private enterprise taking huge profut from the cake.
I wouldn’t say “special” but do you think France and Spain will introduce an immigration policy that stops UK nationals buying property and retiring there? I think you’re a little simple if you truly believe that.
Oh please the chap answered your point and you come back with that? You’ve always needed skills to go to most advantageous countries to live. That’s been mostly the whole immigration issue into the UK unskilled en masse, look at UK nationals going the other way myself included mostly educated filling a job role, self employed mostly skilled or retired all of those spending money and paying lots of tax. If you want to live in Europe the way won’t be closed for any of those three.
Didn't know Rotterdam has toplevel football.
London is one of the very few mega city's in Europe.
By the way the port of Rotterdam extents 42km's from the City centre to the North Sea, so although London has more inhabitants I wonder if it covers a larger area.
Your comment to say that leefbaar nederland the largest party is misleading. They have the most seats 11 out of 34 but that doesn’t mean they have a majority. It’s obvious you’re twisting facts giving a negative picture of Rotterdam
Yep, I do eat sushi. But herring isnt part of sushi :P
Rotterdam has, after Amsterdam, seen the largest rise in house prices the last 5 years. So, there's a point to what he says but the differences with The Hague arent really very pronounced.
Yes, and 49% above that. And yes, we all complain but at the end of the day we prefer having good schools, good healthcare, good infrastructure and a government that invests in the country instead of giving it away to the 0.1% who are party donors.
It isnt. However, Rotterdam has a huge imbalance in terms of income compared to the surrounding towns which benefit from Rotterdams industry and jobs.
The city of Rotterdam wants to redress the balance by building more homes for middle incomes and moving the welfare recipients to the towns around Rotterdam which have been creaming off the middle and higher incomes.
Grenfell Towers is in Kensington, de Mijnsherenlaan is not Kensington. But it is less than 10 minutes by metro to the City center. So, yeah.
It's ok to be cool without them bastards lol
But when I lived in Rotterdam I wasn't a cool guy. We went to the cool street next to Chinatown and had the lush beers on Friday, with toast, ah it was all better before i got old lol
I'd have given you a Like there for writing in Dutch but I don't agree with the message. Helaas.
Indeed. Speaking as an introvert I find the best view of London is the one in the rear view mirror. Same for Amsterdam. Ditto Paris. Rotterdam comes with a feeling of wide open space and a freshening wind from the west. Add that to the culture and what's not to love?!?
Amsterdam is unique. It's like Paris or London, nobody knows why
You clearly have no idea about Rotterdam or its demographics
True. The Markthal was screwed up by the Crash of 2008/9. It was a waterlogged hole in the ground for more than a year. Then NL went through a brief Calvinist horror show called bezuiningen or austerity to Brits. Municipal funds were cut. The Markthal was sold off, disaster-capitalist-wise, to a rather greedy mall-management group, who proceeded to charge exorbitant prices for stall space so they could make a fast profit. Still, some fabulous food establishments moved in and sold high quality victuals, sometimes too high to compensate for the owner greed but sometimes not. Finally, about three years ago, all the good food sellers threw in the towel. Now there's very little left. Snack bars for tourists. Very sad.
There is still hope that the owners will be forced to sell and that the city can buy it. Fenix is in buildings being renovated for condos, so not much future. It would be great if those people could relocate to the Markthal. Then we'd have what we were promised from the start.
You'd think that. But it is rarely true. Being so flat, weather comes from all directions, recently more from the south.
Ik denk dat Amsterdam is een hele leuk stad, een daar is heel veel mooie staden, maar Rotterdam is niet een. Ik vindt Rotterdam heel saai en deprimerend. Zeker, er zijn een paar levendige plaatsen maar niet zo veel, tenzij jij heeft geld Rotterdam is niet een plaats voor jou.
If there's one country that's likely to manage rising sea levels well, it's the Netherlands.
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