The Volokh Conspiracy

Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent | Est. 2002

The Volokh Conspiracy

American Values

The Declension Narrative

The sixth post in the Volokh Conspiracy symposium on "Our American Story: The Search for a Shared National Narrative" (ed. by Joshua Claybourn).

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Historians are storytellers. And cultural historians often tell stories about stories. That's why writing for this project appealed to me so much.

We're a country with a lot of stories, of course. They're the product of our diverse origins and our large, geographically varied land. We're going to be a brilliant mess forever, I expect.

And what story should I tell in this cacophony? As I thought about the project I'd been invited to write for, I imagined would probably be a lot of familiar and compelling stories that various people would champion for one reason or another—but which one would be mine? And whose story would be the truest?

Well. It wouldn't mine, anyway. I didn't even try to tell a true story. My chapter is about a certain type of false story, but one that we love to tell anyway. It's called the declension narrative. It's a familiar story, and it's always letting us down.

The declension narrative is simple to describe: There was a golden age, but we don't live there anymore. We live in a time of decay and decline, and the process of decline can at best be slowed. It cannot be stopped. The best we can hope for is to hold to the past, no matter what, even as it slips from our grasp. In every way that matters, progress is illusory, at least for us.

Humans have been repeating the declension narrative in one form or another since Hesiod and Homer, with help from Confucius, Plato, and the Buddha. Stories patterned on the declension narrative are everywhere once you start looking for them.

That might be the first clue that something's amiss: Suppose that human beings have innate cognitive biases. What would that look like? We wouldn't be able to recognize that they're wrong, because they're our cognitive biases. They look good to us, that's what makes them effective. Viewed from the inside, our cognitive biases probably look like stories that repeat themselves a lot, stories that turn up everywhere you look for them.

The truth does that too, of course, at least for some kinds of truth. Sorting the one from the other is perhaps for philosophers or psychologists, not historians. Can it really be the case, though, that the whole world has been going to hell since Hesiod? Some have thought so, including everyone from Jean-Jacques Rousseau and the Unabomber.

If you've been thinking that the declension narrative only belongs to the other guys, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you. It's all over American culture too. Oddly enough, it's on the political left as well as the political right. I'm a libertarian, and even we've told it more often than we probably should. My chapter is about a familiar story, and it's about why and how to stop telling it.

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France Takes Aim Against Legal Analytics

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According to a story in the Artificial Lawyer [here], France has enacted a new law that will criminalize the "reuse" ("reutilisation") of the "identity data of magistrates and members of the judiciary"("Les données d'identité des magistrats et des membres du greffe") for the purpose of "evaluating, analysing, comparing or predicting their actual or alleged professional practices" ("pour objet ou pour effet d'évaluer, d'analyser, de comparer ou de prédire leurs pratiques professionnelles réelles ou supposées").  [The French version can be found here]

The target, apparently, are companies offering legal analytics and modeling services designed to find patterns in the decisions of particular magistrates and to predict their future decision-making performance, which have sprung up in the wake of the French government's (laudable) efforts to make all case law publicly-accessible online. [A good example of the Doctrine of Unanticipated Consequences]

I have no idea whether this law will be challenged, nor what the grounds for such a challenge might be under French law (though it is I think quite clear that such a law would be very difficult to sustain against a First Amendment challenge here in the U.S.).

A modest proposal for countering Russian election interference

Jonathan Swift meets Vladimir Putin

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What can we do to counter Russian "hack and dox" interference with US election campaigns and candidates?  A lot more than we think, as long as we're willing to open the first amendment Overton window.  I posted my modest proposal on the topic over at Lawfare.  Here's the gist:

Of course, stopping the dissemination of such information raises real First Amendment questions, but the Supreme Court's pronouncements on this topic have been surprisingly qualified and leave plenty of room for legislation that would drain much of the fun out of Russian cyber-kompromat. In the leading case, Bartnicki v. Vopper, the court refused to enforce a statutory prohibition on disseminating the contents of illegally wiretapped conversations. The conversation in question was a cell phone call in which a member of a teachers' union said to the union's negotiator that if the school district didn't improve its offer to end a strike, "we're gonna have to go to their, their homes … to blow off their front porches, we'll have to do some work on some of those guys." The Supreme Court's opinion considered two principal justifications for a ban on dissemination of tapped conversations—deterring wiretapping and preserving privacy. The court dismissed the first because it thought deterrence could be achieved by prosecuting those who conducted the illegal tap. It was troubled by the second, recognizing that failing to punish the disclosure of private conversations was itself likely to restrain private speech. Nonetheless, in an expressly narrow decision, the court concluded that the conversation being disclosed was a matter of public concern, so that prohibiting dissemination would trench too far on freedom of speech. Two justices who were necessary to the majority wrote separately, narrowing the decision further by declaring that only a communication threatening physical harm or the like was of sufficient public concern to justify overriding the dissemination ban.

To my mind, this decision leaves plenty of room for imposing restraints on the distribution of private emails stolen by a foreign government. The government's interest in protecting private speech remains strong in the case of foreign government hacking, and it is bolstered by a deep national security concern that was quite lacking in Bartnicki. What's more, the Bartnicki court's notion that such thefts can be deterred by criminal prosecution is demonstrably wrong where government hackers are concerned. We've indicted Russian, Chinese and Iranian government hackers; it hasn't deterred any of them for long. Even taken at face value, the decision protects only dissemination that addresses a matter of public concern. That by itself would seem to allow Congress to restrict massive dumps of private communications that do not touch on significant public issues, let alone make threats of violence.

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15 responses to “A modest proposal for countering Russian election interference

  1. Or we could just ignore them, stop worrying, since they’d have to spend a fortune in hard cash (ruble isn’t convertible, is it?) to actually matter when each candidate spends over a billion dollars.

  2. How does anyone stop the distribution of information?
    You mean like in China?

    1. More like in Beyonce and P!nk.

  3. The first thing we should do is recognize that it wasn’t “election” interference, it was “campaign” interference.

    And then make some serious efforts to prevent it from becoming election interference in the future, like banning all modes of voting that don’t involve a human directly marking a physical object that will be retained and counted.

    Most forms of computer voting scare computer scientists spitless. We’re nowhere near making it secure.

    And while we’re at it a ban on vote harvesting in federal elections would be a good idea, too.

  4. Huh? Leaking private E-mails is only damaging to a candidate if the public wouldn’t like them if they actually knew the truth about them…. Also, how is proof of bribing one of the two major parties to throw the primary for you not a matter of public interest? Who will protect us from Hillary meddling in national elections absent such leaks?

    1. This is fine to expose and embarrass candidates by revealing secret things, but the problem is it is one-sided. So it is properly denied to those in power.

  5. Hmm…how about the U. S. setting a good example by not interfering in other countries’ elections?

  6. Boo this man!

  7. Heaven forbid we protect our democracy (democratic republic for the inane) from foreign interference. You know the Republicans would be all over it if it benefited Democratics instead of them. Traitorous fucks.

    1. And heaven help us interfere in foreign elections? Naw, we don’t need no help, we do it plenty fine by ourselves.

  8. Maybe we should start with preventing domestic interference, using things like FISA warrants, first.

  9. I’m in the “ignore it” camp. I think that information will, like water, “leak out”. And, it’s best if we get EVERYTHING out in the open.

    “Secrecy begets tyranny.” —Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land

    Besides embarrassing politicians and bureaucrats is the best medicine for these pompous fools who think they are essential to “leading the parade”.

    Gooferment is immoral, ineffective, and inefficient. As well as untrustworthy.

  10. Mr. Baker
    The release of documents in the 2016 election only impacted that election because the voters found the (true) conduct disclosed to be relevant to their voting decisions.
    In other words, the information was almost by definition newsworthy. Thus, I cannot imagine how a law prohibiting the disclosure of such information could withstand a First Amendment challenge.
    Moreover, your proposal seems to be based on the idea that we are better off is voters are kept ignorant of newsworthy information. Was the fairness of the 2016 election harmed by allowing the public to learn the DNC had cheated Bernie Sanders, and that Hillary Clinton held “public” and “private” positions on key issues?
    Now it may be that massive data dumps also disclose salacious but non-newsworthy info, but the idea that the government would have the pre-clear such a disclosure is Orwellian. Moreover, if the info is truly private, the harmed person could bring a tort action like the lawsuit that Hulk Hogan brought against Gawker.
    Your proposal seems like a fast ride down a slippery slope.

  11. Why exactly is the spread of disinformation through social media by Russians any worse than the spread of disinformation by American media giants like the NYT, WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, etc.? For what it’s worth, I am MUCH more concerned about the latter than the former. And, as far as that goes, I am much more concerned about American politicians lying to us than the Russians. It USED to be that we could trust news outlets to call politicians on their lies. Now, they are complicit in spreading the falsehoods.

    1. ” It USED to be that we could trust news outlets to call politicians on their lies.”

      Eh, not as much as you think. It was more a matter of their having a sufficient choke hold on the means of communications in the country that what they didn’t want to get out mostly didn’t. So you wouldn’t be aware of their misbehavior.

      To some extent they ARE worse today, though. I think it’s mostly because the left has become so dominant in the media that they no longer worry about being exposed by other media outlets; To the extent there even ARE other outlets that don’t share their bias, they’re not reaching the MSM’s target audience.

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American Values

American as a Social Movement

The fifth post in the Volokh Conspiracy symposium on "Our American Story: The Search for a Shared National Narrative" (ed. by Joshua Claybourn).

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When I was thirteen years old I won an essay contest, "What the United Nations Means to Me," with Eleanor Roosevelt serving as a judge. She noted the similarity in our names. I was Eleanor Roeloffs, and getting singled out in that way by a former First Lady lauded for her human rights work made a big impression on me. I didn't know much about politics then, but I knew enough to understand that she was a driving force behind what the United Nations stood for and that I wanted to be on her side.

I learned to define my politics and values by identifying heroes to look up to and follow. I think a country does the same thing. The people we choose to elevate and remember over time signify the American narrative. In my own life, the social justice movements that shaped me individually and America as a country, which despite our problems remains the envy of the world, are the civil rights movement, the fight for women's liberation, and the mobilization against the Vietnam War.

These social movements are America's story, and they're my story as a woman born in the middle of the last century whose life was made measurably better amid these broad strokes of history.

Young people coming of age today are shaped by Black Lives Matter, the Me Too and Time's Up movements, and the advocacy for LGBTQ rights, which led to the Supreme Court legalizing same-sex marriage in a landmark ruling on 26 June 2015. The progress in this area has been remarkably swift in sweeping away political opposition once thought intractable.

For those who despair about our current state of extreme partisanship, I would urge them to turn away from partisan politics and celebrate the progress of the disability rights movement as an analogue of the gay rights and civil rights movements in freeing people to be fully productive citizens. I am also watching with enormous pride the emergence of the next generation of activists, born out of horror at mass shootings and determined to assert their right to be safe from military-style weapons.

Set in motion by Parkland, Florida, high school students who survived a school shooting that killed seventeen of their classmates, people of all ages rallied on 24 March 2018 in Washington and cities all over the country, and indeed the world, in solidarity against a permissive gun culture that sanctions military-grade weaponry in the hands of civilians claiming the protection of the Second Amendment.

Social movements take a long time. They don't make change overnight. If you ask people who waited sometimes for decades to marry the person they love whether the Supreme Court ruling in 2015 legalizing same-sex marriage happened quickly, they would likely say no, it was a long time coming. They're right, of course, but when we consider how fast things moved once the groundwork was laid, and the courts got involved, and constitutional protections were put in place, it's possible the same shift in thinking could happen around gun safety and commonsense gun laws.

I always thought that if I weren't a reporter covering Hillary Clinton that we would be friends. I admired her intelligence and her fortitude in the face of personal challenges and stinging political defeats, and I hope she finds some comfort in the fact that she has inspired more people, especially women, to get involved in politics because she lost a race she was supposed to win than if she had actually won. They say history is written by the winners, and the record hundreds of thousands of people who participated in the Women's March the day after President Trump's inauguration are winners too, and they will be writing the next chapters in the American narrative.

The women's movement popularized the phrase that the personal is political, and thanks to the internet and social media, more people have the tools to tell their stories and guide the history yet to be lived.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

19 responses to “American as a Social Movement

  1. Interesting…let’s open the floor to Jack Germond and Morton Kondracke.

  2. Am I the only one who finds it odd and inconsistent of Ms Clift to laud social movements which worked to strengthen individual freedom, and then pivots in the very next paragraph to lauding a “social movement” which is actively working to decrease individual freedom? Maybe that extreme partisanship which Ms. Clift claims to abhor is affecting her own powers of reasoning?

    1. If the goal of the government is to maximize individual freedom and liberty, as Clifton implicitly makes the case that it is, you are correct to note that such a goal necessarily entails the use of government force to decrease the individual freedoms of those who Clifton disagrees with. He’s advocating for a secular theocracy, rather than tolerance, as Epstein did in our last entry in this series.

        1. In practice. Noted example: communistic atheism which treated the state as deity.

          Look at it this way: Clift sees government’s primary role as expanding personal liberty as built on a culture organized by BLM, feminism, anti-war movements, civil and disability rights (etc. etc.). He admits that it takes time to wash away old traditions for the new culture, but that’s what he wants.

          Meanwhile, a theocracy sees the role of government as protecting the Common Good (as defined by religious moral precepts) as the highest role of government, built on a culture organized around citizenship, churches, schools with religious indoctrination of the young (etc. etc.). The role of the conservative, here, is to defend tradition.

          Progressivism is a secular theocracy because it acts as a theocracy, using indoctrination and regulating compliance with government force: Merely God is swapped out for BLM/feminism/trans rights.

          1. “The role of the conservative, here, is to defend tradition.”

            The natural role of the conservative is to oppose progress (that is nevertheless shaped by society’s better elements against conservative hopes and efforts), then to mutter bitterly and inconsequentially about all of this damned progress, education, science, tolerance, reason, and inclusivity.

            More recent conservative thinking and action tend to direct particular emphasis toward the defense of intolerance, ignorance, and superstition.

            1. The natural role of the conservative is to conserve liberal mistakes already in effect, and then to try to prevent further liberal mistakes.

  3. I am also watching with enormous pride the emergence of the next generation of activists, born out of horror at mass shootings and determined to assert their right to be safe from military-style weapons.

    You are an anti-American terrorist, who should be stripped of citizenship and deported immediately.
    Shall Not Be Infringed. Get out of MY country.

    1. Poe’s Law in action right there folks.

  4. Young people coming of age today are shaped by Black Lives Matter, the Me Too and Time’s Up movements, and the advocacy for LGBTQ rights, which led to the Supreme Court legalizing same-sex marriage in a landmark ruling on 26 June 2015. The progress in this area has been remarkably swift in sweeping away political opposition once thought intractable.

    Set in motion by Parkland, Florida, high school students who survived a school shooting that killed seventeen of their classmates, people of all ages rallied on 24 March 2018 in Washington and cities all over the country, and indeed the world, in solidarity against a permissive gun culture that sanctions military-grade weaponry in the hands of civilians claiming the protection of the Second Amendment.

    So then

    – Police are violent racist sociopaths who habitually gun down unarmed black men
    – Only the police should have military-grade weaponry

    As my longtime Usenet ally, Chris Morton, wrote, “Pick ONE”.

  5. He’s right about one thing, social movements take time. Those who think the status quo ain’t to bad, or in a manner of Chesterton’s fence, want marginal change, aren’t the one organizing.

  6. All this talk about a basis for national unity reminds me of this joke:

    https://www.aish.com/j/j/51475782.html

  7. Ms. Clift managed to negatively exceed my rock bottom expectations for her contribution. Well done.

    We need commonsense left wing pundit control.

    1. How are comments such as this one going to change the course of America’s culture war?

      1. I could ask the same of your comment, right above mine. At least his had some sense of humor.

  8. It is a good thing Ms. Clift learned a valuable lesson about government when she was 13 years old. In the political arena, winning is about knowing and appealing to the people in power.

    Unfortunately, it appears Ms. Clift forgot that lesson.

  9. Do we need to read anything other than the sentence wherein she presumes she and Hillary, one of the least likeable politicians of her generation. would be friends?
    I mean: Biden, ok, sure; Obama, yeah, I get it.
    Even AOC, though she’s a bit batty, is cute and has a certain effervescence. But HILLARY?
    How many different synonyms are there for “hack”, Eleanor?

  10. May be too old for a you tube clip bet I recall being stunned on Sunday morning hearing her say (paraphrase) “I don’t care what he did to her (Lewinski) – I would also get down on my knees in the Oval Office just to thank him for keeping Abortion legal”

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Comparing Law Professors With Doctorates to Those Without Doctorates

Someone needs to do a study on this.

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Sarah Lawsky's valuable report about this year's entry-level law professor hires is out. And I was interested to see a trend: Both this year and last year, about half of the entry-level law professor hires have doctorate degrees.   The shift toward candidates with doctorates is not new, of course.  And it has been written about before, most memorably in Lynn LoPuck's article Dawn of the Discipline-Based Law Faculty.

Reading over Sarah's report, it occurred to me that someone should study a question that I don't think has yet been answered: Is the scholarly trajectory of U.S. law professors with doctorates different from that of U.S. law professors without doctorates?  And if so, how?

Here's my thinking.  In the current entry-level market, having a doctorate gives candidates a significant advantage.  Among the reasons for this, I think, is that law schools tend to have high tenure rates.  This makes hiring committees relatively risk-averse.  When hiring an entry-level candidate, schools want clear and objective evidence that the candidate is going to become and stay a productive scholar.  They want evidence that a candidate has scholarly discipline, an interest in ideas, and a methodology that seems likely to bear scholarly fruit.

A doctorate degree can help make that case.  Imagine you're an appointments committee chair going through a large pile of entry-level resumes.  You see a lot of smart and accomplished junior lawyers.  But who is going to be a committed scholar?  A candidate with a doctorate will seem more likely to have the qualities you're looking for than one without. Getting the degree shows scholarly discipline.  The subject-matter training teaches a methodology.  And the candidate's dissertation shows the interest in ideas and (hopefully) produces the fruit.  If you're looking for a proxy that plausibly tracks future scholarly productivity and impact, a doctorate degree can seem like a decent bet.  And I think that's a significant part of the reason why the entry-level market favors candidates with doctorates.

The particularly interesting part of this, in my view, is that I think we now have enough professors both with and without doctorates to test whether our intuitions are correct.  The question is, has the market accurately assessed the value of doctorates?  Does having a doctorate signal what we think it signals about future productivity and impact?  And more broadly, is the scholarly trajectory of U.S. law professors with doctorates different from that of U.S. law professors without doctorates?

There would be various ways to try to measure this, of course.  Perhaps you could try to measure scholarly impact, such as by counting citations on Westlaw or on HeinOnline.  Or maybe instead you could compare scholarly output, such as by counting publications of various kinds. I don't have any particular ideas about what approach (or combination of approaches) is the least flawed.  But it seems like something that could be a really interesting empirical study that could also shed light on a very important trend in legal academia.

 

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13 responses to “Comparing Law Professors With Doctorates to Those Without Doctorates

  1. At what point in time did a doctorate in jurisprudence cease being thought of as a doctorate? I am fully aware of what Kerr is saying in this post with regards to Ph.D. applicants, but it still strikes me as odd that he talks about a doctorate like J.D.’s don’t have one. That his assumption is so embedded that the post doesn’t even have to mention the difference between doctorate degrees for it to make sense to the reader, seems to say a lot about the JD degree.

    If those who have a doctorate in jurisprudence don’t even think of themselves as having a doctorate, maybe it’s time to rename the degree and find different initials.

    1. Quantum, I think the renaming already happened: Around 50 years ago, schools relabeled their “LL.B” degree a “J.D.” degree to make it sound like a more advanced and prestigious degree.

      1. Prof Kerr is correct. Like a medical doctor, that level of degree was (and remains) the equivalent of a Masters degree in any other field.

        1. Correct, but those with law degrees are more likely to strut it around like a peacock, unlike those with an MA or MS. Oh, and anybody who puts “esquire” after his or her name is a douche on principle.

          1. It’s a convention _within_ the legal profession. It allows the opportunity to show respect to your adversary.

            I might tend to agree w/ your assessment if it is used inordinately _beyond_ the legal profession.

            1. Just to clarify, I was referring to use of the “Esq.” suffix. If one used the Dr. prefix, then it would unquestionably be unjustified “strutting”.

              I’m unaware of any frequent use of the latter. Now one w/ a J.S.D. is certainly entitled to use the Dr. prefix.

              1. Alright, Esquire on a business card is like putting out a shingle, I suppose I’m talking about those who put it is 16 point font on their email signature. I think you know the type.

                There is also an unjustified use of the Dr. prefix to include strutting. I know to many professors who want DR tattooed on their forehead so everyone can see how smart they are when in reality degree =/= smarts.

                Look, I get being proud of your academic achievements, but I’m going to quote “Dr.” Russ Roberts of econ talk here: “You know, David, I like to joke, when people ask if I’m a doctor, I say I am–because I have a Ph.D. in economics–I say, ‘I am, but not the kind that helps people.'”

  2. I understand why aspiring professors will do anything to set themselves apart from the competition. But the reality that law schools may focus on whether a candidate has a Ph. D. is disheartening; it implies that the schools are more concerned with the aspiring professor’s ability to publish. I hire law school graduates to be lawyers. My colleagues and I wish schools would teach students . . . how to be lawyers. Someone much smarter than I suggested we may benefit from two law degrees–one for aspiring lawyers and one for aspiring law professors/academics. As CJ Roberts put it, “What the academy is doing, as far as I can tell, is largely of no use or interest to people who actually practice law.”

  3. Doctor, doctor, give me the news
    I got a bad case of gettin’ sued

    1. High bill is going make me ill
      I got a bad case and it’s pro se too

  4. Orin,

    I don’t think you have identified the right cause – but if we reformulate it a bit, you may be on to something.

    Although I’ve never served on an appointments committee, like anyone else who has been teaching for long enough, I’ve seen my share of interesting appointments issues. I don’t think people are risk-averse in the way you describe. Yes, faculties will all talk about productivity and future potential, but the reality is that, nowadays, everyone who gets beyond the initial vetting has displayed qualities that will support optimism bias. Sure, a Ph. D makes candidates more marketable to the overall faculty, but that’s not the same as suggesting, as I think you are, that such credentials are a response to the “lemons” problem.

    On the other hand, law schools are losing their autonomy within the broader university, and this includes decisions on tenure. A generation ago, tenure was determined largely by the law school itself; now it is common for files to be reviewed by a committee drawn from across the campus – with only some of the membership coming from the law school. In this environment, imprimaturs such as a Ph.D – and perhaps more importantly – the possibility of peer-reviewed publications appearing outside the usual student-run journal – will become more important.

    Maybe our disagreement is one of emphasis only; I don’t think law school appointments committees are consciously thinking about the problem the way you describe. But it is possible that the considerations you sketch here may be subtly working their will on candidate selection, just in more roundabout fashion.

  5. Just to be clear, we’re not counting a Juris Doctorate as a Doctorate, right?

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A Skeptic's Look at Administrative Constitutionalism

It's probably not a good idea to lead government bureaucrats follow their own idiosyncratic interpretations of the U.S. Constitution

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I've posted my recent Notre Dame Law Review article, Antidiscrimination Laws and the Administrative State: A Skeptic's Look at Administrative Constitutionalism, over at SSRN. Here is the abstract:

This Article discusses why administrative agencies charged with enforcing antidiscrimination legislation while implicitly undertaking administrative constitutionalism tend to be inconsiderate of constitutional limitations on government authority in general, and especially of the limitations imposed by the First Amendment's protection of freedom of expression.

To establish the existence and contours of the problem, Part I of this Article provides context by recounting several detailed examples of how federal, state, and local civil rights agencies have favored broad antidiscrimination enforcement over countervailing constitutional doctrines that impose limits on regulatory authority. These examples include the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights' Obama-era attempts to use Title IX to strip university students accused of sexual assault of due process protection and to impose broad speech codes on universities, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development's ("HUD") efforts in the 1990s to penalize neighborhood activists for lobbying against projects HUD deemed protected by the Fair Housing Act, local human rights commissions' threats to punish individuals for otherwise protected speech deemed to cause a hostile environment, and state and local agencies' willingness to prosecute individuals who discriminate in their choice of roommate.

Part II of this Article discusses the reasons why agencies that enforce antidiscrimination laws tend to be oblivious or hostile to constitutionally protected liberties in general and freedom of speech in particular. Part II begins with a discussion of institutional factors common to administrative agencies that tend to lead agencies to expand their power and neglect countervailing constitutional considerations. First, agencies increase their budget and authority by expanding, not contracting, the scope of the laws they enforce. Second, "purposivism," or the notion that ambiguities in statutes should be resolved to further the laws' underlying purposes, encourages agencies to resolve statutory interpretation disputes in favor of broad interpretations of agency authority. Third, antidiscrimination agencies attract employees ideologically committed to their agencies' missions. Fourth, and concomitantly, agency staff (unlike generalist courts) generally do not see enforcing constitutional limitations on government power, or protecting freedom of speech specifically, as their job. Part II concludes with a discussion of political and ideological factors specific to agencies charged with enforcing antidiscrimination laws that make them especially prone to neglect constitutional restraints on their authority.

Part III of this Article suggests solutions that may at least mitigate administrative neglect of civil liberties in the context of antidiscrimination law. Most of these solutions involve broad reforms that would have ramifications well beyond mitigating the problem addressed in this Article. A more limited and therefore practical reform would be for agencies that enforce antidiscrimination legislation to establish an internal watchdog office charged with advocating within the agencies for compliance with the First Amendment and other constitutional constraints.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

4 responses to “A Skeptic's Look at Administrative Constitutionalism

  1. Hope you’ve included Pearson v Shalalla. It’s a classic of bureaucrats deciding that they’re not bound by the Bill of Rights.

  2. In 2003, the Bush administration OCR, troubled by OCR’s previously
    overbroad guidance, emphasized that for university inaction regarding harassment to be actionable, the alleged harassment “must include something
    beyond the mere expression of views . . . that some person finds offensive. . . .
    [The Office for Civil Rights’] standards require that the conduct be evaluated from the perspective of a reasonable person.”39 OCR’s new guidance
    also noted that, because OCR was part of the government, OCR could not
    order private universities to adopt speech codes inconsistent with the First
    Amendment. OCR regulations, therefore, “should not be interpreted in ways
    that would lead to the suppression of [First Amendment] protected speech
    on public or private campuses.”40 Some universities, public and private, nevertheless voluntarily continued to enforce harassment rules that amounted to
    stringent speech codes.
    Obama administration OCR officials were less concerned with constitutional niceties than were their Bush administration predecessors. In May
    2013, OCR and the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division sent a join letter to the University of Montana memorializing a settlement to a sexual harassment case brought against the university. The letter stated that it was
    intended to “serve as a blueprint for colleges and universities throughout the
    country.”41 Ignoring Supreme Court precedent, the First Amendment, and
    OCR’s own guidance from the Bush administration
    , the letter declares that
    “sexual harassment should be more broadly defined as ‘any unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature,’” including “verbal . . . conduct”, regardless of
    whether it is objectively offensive or sufficiently severe or pervasive to create a
    hostile environment.42

    And this is not considered a scandal.

    1. Not by Democrats, obviously.

Please to post comments

Deputy Scot Peterson (of Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS Fame) Being Prosecuted for, Essentially, Cowardice in Battle

The formal charges are child neglect and criminal negligence.

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You can see the arrest warrant, which lays out the government's theory.  Because Peterson "was assigned the duty and responsibility of protecting [the high school] and its occupants," the theory goes, he was obligated "to promptly address the active shooter" (rather than "retreating to a position of increased personal safety"). In particular, the arrest warrant alleges, he was criminally culpable in "refusing to seek out, confront, or engage the shooter." (There's also a separate perjury charge, but I'll set that aside here.

1. Now generally speaking, it's not a crime to decline to rescue or protect people in peril. That's true even when one could have rescued them with no risk or real cost to oneself.

2. It is a crime to fail to rescue or protect people when you have a special relationship with them, whether that comes from status (spouse, parent) or contract (lifeguard, doctor). But even when you do have such a duty, you aren't obligated to seriously risk death or serious injury; for instance, to quote the California jury instruction applicable when a parent is prosecuted for failing to protect a child (usually, when a mother is prosecuted for failing to stop her husband's or boyfriend's abuse of her child),

A parent has a legal duty to take every step reasonably possible under the then existing circumstances to protect [his] [or] [her] child from harm including physical attack. The parent however need not risk death or great bodily harm in doing so ….

My quick research has revealed precedents supporting this in Alabama, California, Michigan, Montana, and North Carolina, and no precedents imposing a more categorical protect-even-at-risk-of-death duty. Likewise, the few states that purport to impose a more general duty to help even strangers generally limit that duty to safe rescues.

3. Peterson, though, is being prosecuted for failing to confront an armed murderer, a confrontation that certainly would "risk death or great bodily harm" to Peterson. The question in this case, I think, is whether the legal duty is more stringent for police officers, firefighters, armed security guards, and the like than it is for others (like parents) who owe such a duty.

If the answer is "yes," I take it, the rationale would be that a duty to risk one's life is part of the job, and that this duty is enforceable through the threat of criminal punishment and not just the threat of being fired. (Plus if you aren't willing to run the risk, you should leave the job to someone who is willing.) If the answer is "no," the rationale might be the same used by a court discussing the parent's duty:

[W]e believe that to require a parent as a matter of law to take affirmative action to prevent harm to his or her child or be held criminally liable imposes a reasonable duty upon the parent. Further, we believe this duty is and has always been inherent in the duty of parents to provide for the safety and welfare of their children, which duty has long been recognized by the common law and by statute. This is not to say that parents have the legal duty to place themselves in danger of death or great bodily harm in coming to the aid of their children. To require such, would require every parent to exhibit courage and heroism which, although commendable in the extreme, cannot realistically be expected or required of all people.

But I don't know of any caselaw on the limits of the duty owed by police officers, firefighters, guards, and the like; indeed, I couldn't find any cases at all in which they were prosecuted for failing to confront criminals (of any degree of dangerousness). If any of you know of such cases, please do pass them along.

[UPDATE: Some readers brought up the cases holding that the police can't be sued by people whom they failed to protect for failing to protect them; that is indeed well-settled, but that simply reflects that the police don't have such a privately enforceable obligation to the public. This case raises a different question: whether the government, as the representative of the public, can prosecute police officers for failing to perform their duties to the public.

In a sense, this is similar to the issue raised in the title of the post (though I realize that the analogy between police officers and soldiers is necessarily highly imperfect): Though surely cowardly soldiers can't be sued by fellow soldiers or members of the public, the military can prosecute for this. The question is whether a criminal law obligation would apply to the police officers, not whether the police officers can be sued by particular individuals for breaching any such obligation.]

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57 responses to “Deputy Scot Peterson (of Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS Fame) Being Prosecuted for, Essentially, Cowardice in Battle

  1. I thought in Lozito v. New York City it was ruled that the police aren’t liable for failing to act? This case wouldn’t seem to be significantly different.

    1. There’s a huge difference between saying the military can’t be sued for mistakes in military decisions (they can’t be) and saying the military can’t prosecute a soldier for mistakes in military decisions.

      If there is a duty here, it lies by way of analogy to military relationships, not purely civilian ones.

    2. Lozito v. New York City was decided in the ‘Supreme Court of New York County’, which is a trial court, trial courts don’t set precedent. And state court decisions don’t affect other states.

      Lozito was a tort case, he was suing the NY police, and the court held that the police aren’t liable for failing to act. But that doesn’t mean they can’t be charged with criminal violations.

  2. I have no idea if the prosecutors are correctly applying Florida law, or staging a publicity stunt, or both.

    But I would presume that the Fraternal Order of Police, and other police apologists who like to distinguish cops from mere “civilians,” and who thump their chests about how the cops are always the ones running into danger while the civilians are running away, would accept the consequences of their own rhetoric. Specifically, if they’re soldiers doing God’s work and protecting civilians, and demanding special compensation and special powers to do this job, then they will accept that if one of their own fails in their soldierly duty they should be punished like a soldier who displays cowardice in battle.

    1. I see your point, but I’d be hesitant to endorse it unless I saw exactly what “rhetoric” of your adversaries you’re trying to stick them to.

      True, if someone really says that police officers are just like soldiers, one can suggest that they should be bound by military justice. But if they simply say that police officers are there to protect civilians, and should be given various immunities because of that, that’s consistent with the duty described in subsection 2 of the post: A duty that sometimes makes police officers criminally punishable for failing to help strangers (unlike the rest of us, who generally aren’t thus punishable), but not when the help would involve grave risk to their own lives. By way of analogy, someone who sings paeans to parental love, and who wants parents to have substantial legal rights, isn’t necessarily bound to conclude that parents should be criminally punished for failing to risk their lives.

      1. Might that rhetoric be that of the cause of the paramilitarization rampant in policing.

      2. “but not when the help would involve grave risk to their own lives”

        Why shouldn’t we impose on cops a duty to risk their own lives? If a cop with a 9mm is standing outside a school where a kid is being killed every few seconds, the grave risk of inaction outweighs the grave risk to the cop. Of course, the cop might not want to take the risk, but that’s why you ask cops to assume the duty before they are placed in grave danger, when the risk of assuming the duty is low, and then punish them if they try to weasel out of their own obligation when the odds go south.

      3. Thank you for that reply, Prof. Volokh. While this oath is not necessarily the one taken by the officer in question, it does make an interesting point. I draw your attention to the phrase “I will perform my duties fearlessly.”

        “I do solemnly swear: I will support, protect and defend the constitution and government of the United States and of the State of Florida; I will render strict obedience to my superiors in the Florida Highway Patrol, and observe and abide by all orders and regulations prescribed by them for the government and administration of said Patrol; I will always conduct myself soberly, honorably and honestly; I will maintain strict, punctual and constant attention to my duties; I will abstain from all offensive personality or conduct unbecoming a police officer; I will perform my duties fearlessly, impartially and with all due courtesy, and I will well and faithfully perform the duties of a Florida Highway Patrol Officer on which I am now about to enter. So help me God.”
        Florida Highway Patrol Oath of Office

  3. This does seem like it would be more appropriate in the form of an employee discipline case rather than a criminal charge. (Or is a discipline case not allowed to extend to a consequential damages claim in addition to firing?)

  4. From the charging docs: “History shows that when a suspect is confronted by an armed individual (police, security, concealed carry person) they either shoot it out with that person or kill themselves. Either way the shooting of innocent bystanders must stop.”
    I found that interesting.

    I read the charges and I hear blah blah blah perjury. Its not unusual for prosecutors to inflate the charges (puffery) so that they have room to knock them down. Trials are always a gamble. Puffery is a time honored negotiating strategy to gain leverage. Part of the plea may be for perjury, but he may be forced to give up his pension and some other things.

    And oh yeah, the charges make for good publicity.

    1. So suspects hardly ever drop their weapons, put their hands up, and surrender? Or run away? Those things are rare?

      1. Suspects? Yes. Deranged mass shooters? No. Very rarely. In fact, Parkland was unusual in that the suspect was captured alive.

        1. There are many cases where a potential mass shooting was derailed by armed opposition. Parkland is not such an outlier as you may think not to mention that once a mass shooter is opposed then they stop shooting innocents and either shoot at the opposition, run away/hide, or commit suicide.

          1. That’s what I said. Mass shooters don’t “surrender” the way a typical criminal might. They either kill themselves or allow themselves to be killed.

      2. Context matters: The context of this quote was active shooter training.

  5. […] Deputy Scot Peterson (of Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS Fame) Being Prosecuted for, Essentially, Coward… Reason […]

  6. Let me try a hypothetical: I am walking on the beach and I spot my worst enemy, a hundred feet off shore and in obvious distress. A lifeguard is preparing to swim out to him.

    “Stand back,” I tell the lifeguard. “I am a trained Coast Guard rescue swimmer. I’ll save him.” The lifeguard defers to me and I swim out a little way, then deliberately tread water and chortlingly watch my nemesis slip below the waves.

    If those facts could be proven, I would think I would easily be convicted of manslaughter, if not murder. While I didn’t directly cause the death, I maliciously created a situation I knew raised a great risk of death and that death did in fact result.

    How much different is this situation? Peterson “took” the job: that is, he occupied the post, thereby preventing a qualified person from taking it, and by doing so caused great risk of death.

    I don’t know whether the current state of Florida law allows Peterson to be convicted, but it should.

    1. 1. Your hypothetical focuses on your deliberate intention to divert the lifeguard from his path. The analogy would be if Peterson took the job precisely because he contemplated a possible deadly incident, intended all along not to try to stop such an incident, and purposefully sought to prevent someone else from being in a position to help.

      But as I understand it, there’s no evidence at all of such an unlikely intention on Peterson’s part. Rather, I assume Peterson only realized in the moment that he wasn’t brave enough to confront the killer (or at least the prosecution wouldn’t be able to prove the contrary beyond a reasonable doubt). At that point, there’s no deliberate attempt to prevent a qualified person from being in his job — he thought he was qualified, but only then realized that he was too cowardly to do it.

      2. Now I don’t think your hypothetical is needed to establish that Peterson has some sort of duty to try to protect the children; in your hypothetical, the lifeguard has such a duty, and I do think the police officer is in a similar position. The question is whether this duty extends to life-threatening help, and not just to the more ordinary, safer help.

      1. I think it is clear to everybody that Deputy Scott Peterson was a coward, including in particular himself in the moment. With this in mind, did the Deputy actively call out for replacement units and renounce his position? As the local department would be in assumption of a man on the scene, if the Deputy did not address non-action to the department then he did not only commit to a life-risking engagement of entering the school but also a non-life-risking engagement of communication to his department.

      2. If you’re a lifeguard and 3 sharks are tearing into a swimmer 40 feet off-shore, do you have a legal duty to enter the water at that time? I’d be surprised if the answer is ‘yes.’ (But maybe it is, for all I know.) I would assume her defense would be, “Yeah, I have a legal duty to effect rescues. Drowning people, mostly. And there’s a real risk to me each time I swim out to rescue someone who is drowning, panicking, and swinging his arms wildly at anything approaching him. Doing this is part of the job description. But I did *NOT* sign up for swimming into a swarm of sharks biting a bloody victim. That does happen (5-10 times world-wide, each year), but it’s so rare that it’s not something we lifeguards contemplate when we take on this job.

        I think there are hundreds of thousands of security guards in this country. I would assume that it’s reasonable to expect that you might have to deal with someone with a knife, or a regular gun. Mostly just threatening with it, but certainly possible that he’s actually using it. Seems reasonable to expect the security guard to do *something* in those situations. Not just run away.

        But when there is someone with a large-capacity firearm, where you are outgunned by a massive amount…then it starts to look like you are being asked to sacrifice your life. Doing so would be beyond noble, of course. But not sure if it’s really part of the job description.

        In tragedies like this; I think we find some solace in finding people to (rightly or wrongly) blame. It’s hard for me to see justification for criminal charges. But maybe there are facts out there that would change my mind. Hopefully, if/when this case goes to trial, the jury will be able to reach a reasoned and fair verdict…whatever that turns out to be.

        1. But when there is someone with a large-capacity firearm, where you are outgunned by a massive amount…then it starts to look like you are being asked to sacrifice your life. Doing so would be beyond noble, of course. But not sure if it’s really part of the job description.

          I don’t agree with this at all (not even your suggested facts), but even if it were true, can you answer this: How did Peterson know that Cruz was armed with something other than a “normal gun”? How did he know that Cruz had a “large-capacity firearm”? How did he know he was “outgunned by a massive amount”… considering he never saw Cruz, and never approached the site of the shooting?

        2. “But when there is someone with a large-capacity firearm, where you are outgunned by a massive amount…”

          I’m not sure that that’s true. I’d think that the guns cops carry nowadays are a pretty good match for an AR15 in close quarters. So action by the cop has a good chance of saving many lives, although perhaps at great risk to his own.

      3. I think Malvolio does capture an important element of the situation, which is that Peterson didn’t just personally refrain from entering the building, but also, in his position as officer in charge, directed that others not enter. He didn’t just fail to help, he obstructed help. Used his authority or order it not be extended.

      4. If you look at the docs then you will see that not only did Peterson not attempt to gather info for tactics, he initially directed Broward officers away from entering the building. Lest we forget, it was a nearby county that entered the facility not Broward. So in effect, Peterson did follow the analogy of Malvolio above.

    2. Peterson “took” the job: that is, he occupied the post, thereby preventing a qualified person from taking it

      Didn’t he literally do that at the time of the shooting, i.e. he told his superiors he was on the scene, which resulted in them telling the neighboring police agencies to stay back in order to avoid the risk of friendly fire, while in reality he was hiding out in the parking lot? Maybe that is the actual basis of the charge, not simply that he declined to charge into the guns like the Light Brigade.

      1. This is correct. See my post on the transcript below. Peterson actively told other responding officers to stay away!

  7. This would make an interesting precedent. The police in my jurisdiction will routinely delay giving assistance, etc. if they feel the danger is too great to themselves. It is not uncommon to “wait for SWAT” even when there may potentially be ‘innocent’ lives at stake. There is a ‘better strategy’ argument that there is less risk to innocents when the police have overwhelming force. However, there is also less risk to the police… cowardice or intelligence? It will usually be judged post hoc. It would be “interesting” indeed to give district attorneys the ability to criminally charge cops when they aren’t ‘brave enough.’ But I don’t think that’s a road we want to go down.

  8. Everyone should read the arrest warrant, which Eugene has linked above and I will link again. It’s a chilling 41 pages.

    http://cbsmiami.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/arrestwarrant.pdf

    Page 4: BSO training records indicated that Deputy Peterson last attended a four hour block of Active Shooter training on April 19, 2016.

    Page 5: (Description of the Active Shooter lesson plans)
    “Remember, every time you hear a gunshot in an active shooter incident, you have to believe that is another victim being killed.” Deputies were also taught that “Time is critical in each of these incidents. This is like no other crime. The motive is to kill as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time.”… The first officer or two officers on scene will immediately go to confront the shooter.

    But what did Deputy Peterson actually do after receiving this training and associated pay check?

    Page 11 (Radio Transcript)
    2:27:30 Deputy Peterson broadcasted “Juliet 3. Make sure I have a unit over in the front of the school, make sure nobody comes inside the school”.

    2:28:30 Deputy Peterson broadcasted “Broward, do not approach the 12 or 1300 Buildings. Stay at least 500 feet away at this point”.

    1. Not to mention that he was the Broward County contact and trainer for Active Shooter.

  9. I read articles about these charges earlier today and, from what I can recall (don’t feel like taking time to research this), it wasn’t just that he failed to engage/pursue or investigate the gunshots, but that he did not even do his job in communicating with his agency and others over the radio about the situation. Plus, I thought that he prevented some from responding because of his poor communication.

    Liability of law enforcement for cowardice and failure to protect shouldn’t be a yes or no issue but should be a wide spectrum. The actions of this man are, IMO, definitely on the should-be-liable side.

  10. Police, in all cases, are a para-military organization. Court decisions on their “duty to protect” in the past have been brought by those they failed to protect, and have been dismissed, and the charges were fought by the municipalities employing the officers to limit their own liability.

    Bringing charges that amount to cowardice (UCMJ Art. 99) against an officer is not likely to survive in court- because police are para-military, not military. The military runs by a different set of legal rules than civilians- the UCMJ. Police operate under the same laws that govern all other civilians. They can and should certainly be fired for military illegalities that have military criminal punishments such as disobeying a direct order, cowardice, and various other things. But the police shouldn’t be charged as criminals for things that ordinary citizens wouldn’t be charged as criminals for. And an ordinary citizen employed anywhere can get fired for disobeying a direct order. In ordinary employment- cowardice will very rarely come up.

    1. I agree that police are a paramilitary organization. I disagree with your emphasis on the para rather than the military part of that description. They and their representatives have demanded all the perks and protections of their status. They need to be held accountable to the obligations of that status as well. And, yes, that means being held criminally liable for willful failure to do your sworn duty.

      I do agree that they are not subject to the UCMJ but for a different reason. That’s a federal statute applicable to federal forces. Police are state officials subject (mostly) to state laws. But the state laws that apply to police are not identical to the state laws that apply to the rest of us. They are immune to some but are (or should be) accountable to others that do not apply to us non-police.

  11. I do not know the case law in that circuit or in the State of Florida but I have read a number of 9th circuit cases over the years which held that while police (i.e., agents of the state) do not have a duty to protect the general public they do have a duty when they have a “special relationship” to which a quick case law search revealed this:

    “The heart of Balistreri’s due process claim is that the Pacifica police failed to take steps to respond to the continued threats, harassment and violence towards Balistreri by her estranged husband. There is, in general, no constitutional duty of state officials to protect members of the 700*700 public at large from crime. See Martinez v. California, 444 U.S. 277, 284-85, 100 S.Ct. 553, 558-59, 62 L.Ed.2d 481 (1980); Ketchum, 811 F.2d 1243, 1247 (9th Cir.1987); Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616, 618 (7th Cir.1982). However, such a duty may arise by virtue of a “special relationship” between state officials and a particular member of the public. Ketchum, 811 F.2d at 1247; Escamilla v. Santa Ana, 796 F.2d 266, 269 (9th Cir.1986). Several courts have held that, to determine whether a “special relationship” exists, a court may look to a number of factors, including (1) whether the state created or assumed a custodial relationship toward the plaintiff; (2) whether the state affirmatively placed the plaintiff in a position of danger; (3) whether the state was aware of a specific risk of harm to the plaintiff; or (4) whether the state affirmatively committed itself to the protection of the plaintiff. See Ketchum, 811 F.2d at 1247; Escamilla, 796 F.2d at 269-70; Jensen v. Conrad, 747 F.2d 185, 194 (4th Cir.1984).” Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Dept., 901 F. 2d 696 (1990) at 699-700.

    The qualified immunity hurdle has raised substantially since then but it seems to me that agents of the state, like police officers, should be criminally liable as well for certain people, like school children.

    Whether or not they are criminally liable in Florida is something we may one day discover.

  12. What if Florida offers as a plea bargain sentencing him to be accompanied by a pair of minstrels?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8

  13. The use of “child neglect” laws here seems wrong. They’re for situations where a child can’t protect himself _because_ he’s a child. Here, the victims couldn’t have protected themselves any better had they been adults. The guard was not a “caregiver” to the kids any more than street cops are “caregivers” to the passerby.

    1. The *government* put the children (and teachers and staff) in a gun-free zone, and assigned an armed deputy t protect them. The *government* put them in that school *because* they are children. The adults had a choice of work environment; the children did not.

      I see the children as the equivalent of jail prisoners. The adults are the equivalent of jail staff.

      1. That might be a better analogy. Corrections officers are held accountable if they do not protect the prisoners to the extent possible just as Peterson did not protect the students (and teachers) to the extent possible. Especially considering his extended training as well as being a trainer in Active Shooter for Broward County.

  14. This makes sense. If we’re going to pay people to face a low probability that they might have to take a great risk, it doesn’t make sense to let them collect their checks until it’s time for them to perform, and then elect not to perform.

  15. The charge of culpable negligence seems consistent with nonfeasance in office, which a quick review of Blackstone, Hawkins, Russell, and Bishop shows was an offense at common law for sheriffs and constables. These common law authors don’t label it “essentially cowardice in battle,” rather they discuss it as neglect of duty.

    The arrest warrant goes into detail on Peterson’s training and duties in his role and, based on the information in the warrant, it appears he neglected those duties while in his official capacity. As Florida Statute 2.01 adopts the “common and statute laws of England … down to the 4th day of July, 1776,” then a charge of culpable negligence doesn’t seem all that far-fetched.

  16. To me, the charges are just too novel an interpretation of those statutes to be justifiable. The axiom that “ignorance of the law is no excuse” is predicated on the law being knowable before one acts, so after-the-fact interpretations that decide certain conduct is unlawful aren’t- or shouldn’t- be allowed.

    Peterson’s cowardice is certainly contemptible. My person opinion is he had that job because he was at the tail end of his career and was just coasting toward retirement. He wasn’t mentally or physically up to the task that was thrust upon him by the shooter. So he froze. Regardless of how much I despise his cowardice, however, that doesn’t make it a crime. I doubt the prosecutors can point to a single prosecution in the past under these statutes that is remotely similar. IOW, it wasn’t possible for Peterson to have reasonably known that being a coward would be criminal.

    Add to that the decades of training police that the First Rule of Policing is to make it home alive, and these charges look more like politics than justice.

  17. Since we regularly give police access to arms denied to regular civilians, they are not strictly non military, hence they are paramilitary.

    In the founding era there were no police but there were militias and state forces and in time of war, which included undeclared conflicts with American Indians and pirates, they were subject to military discipline including forms of court martial. Were members of militia forces ever charged with cowardice under fire?

  18. I believe DeShaney v. Winnebago will be the deciding case. Here is the pertinent text:

    “(a) A State’s failure to protect an individual against private violence generally does not constitute a violation of the Due Process Clause, because the Clause imposes no duty on the State to provide members of the general public with adequate protective services. The Clause is phrased as a limitation on the State’s power to act, not as a guarantee of certain minimal levels of safety and security; while it forbids the State itself to deprive individuals of life, liberty, and property without due process of law, its language cannot fairly be read to impose an affirmative obligation on the State to ensure that those interests do not come to harm through other means.

    (b) There is no merit to petitioner’s contention that the State’s knowledge of his danger and expressions of willingness to protect him against that danger established a “special relationship” giving rise to an affirmative constitutional duty to protect. While certain “special relationships” created or assumed by the State with respect to particular individuals may give rise to an affirmative duty, enforceable through the Due Process Clause, to provide adequate protection, see Estelle v. Gamble, 429 U.S. 97″] 429 U.S. 97; 429 U.S. 97; Youngberg v. Romeo, 457 U.S. 307, the affirmative duty to protect arises not from the State’s knowledge of the individual’s predicament or from its expressions of intent to help him, but from the limitations which it has imposed on his freedom to act on his own behalf, through imprisonment, institutionalization, or other similar restraint of personal liberty.”

    It is clear that Peterson was an actor of the State and that the key issue will be whether a “special relationship” existed between the officer and the children. Such “special relationship” is not based on the danger during the shooting but “from the limitations which it has imposed on his freedom to act on his own behalf, through imprisonment, institutionalization, or other similar restraint of personal liberty.”

    So, shouldn’t the argument be that because the school had enforced limitations on the freedom to act on the children based on restraint of movement within the school, restraint of possessing defensive weapons, fencing and locks on the buildings and area, requirement to be on campus and not at any other location during certain hours of the day, the school/state had created a “special relationship” and thus failure to act in their defense violated the states affirmative requirements that hold under a “special relationship”?

    1. DeShaney v. Winnebago, IIRC, only speaks toward whether the 14th Amendment creates a federal right. It’s not relevant as to whether Florida law imposes any liability.

      1. I don’t believe that is what it says. It says that a “special relationship” is what is required for the 14th Amendment to apply when making claims against the government (Federal or State) with regards to their failure to provide defense of another.

        Also, if state law controlled on this issue, then why didn’t the plaintiffs in DeShaney, Castle Rock, etc. sue under the laws of their state? Your statement seems to imply that the legally required affirmative duties of individuals acting on behalf of a State will vary based on the State laws of the State. I don’t believe this is true.

        1. If the determination hinges on whether 14th Amendment applies, that means that the claim is for deprivation of a federal Constitutional right.

          Yes, it does very from state to state. The plaintiffs in the others cases probably didn’t bring suit under the laws of those states because the state law created no cause of action, or such a claim was barred in their courts (for sovereign immunity or whatever other reason).

  19. If there is no general duty to rescue (that is, assuming that principle is to be left intact) then is there a specific duty? Well, this policeman was assigned the duty of protecting these kids, specifically. One possible outcome is that this person loses his job because he refused to perform it, thus reverting to the general rule.
    But, there’s a reliance issue in that solution… the kids (and their parents) relied on Officer Chicken and thus did not take steps to be responsible for protecting themselves (and their children) and that should be addressed, and getting fired doesn’t cover that. Should the redress come from civil or criminal courts? There’s an argument for either one, and they aren’t mutually exclusive.

    Ultimately, the question of whether there’s criminal liability comes down to one analogy. Officer Chicken took on the job of policeman, and the job of school resource officer specifically, knowing that he might be expected to come under fire, literally, in the line of duty. Because police officers do this, they get benefits that go with the job. Officer Chicken took the benefits but didn’t perform the duty. That sounds like fraud, and fraud is a crime.

  20. Prof. Volokh, I don’t think this is properly phrased, “3. Peterson, though, is being prosecuted for failing to confront an armed murderer. . . .”

    Peterson didn’t know there was an armed murderer at the time (and since this is a law blog, we should even call the accused a murderer since he’s still considered innocent).

    Instead, the culpable negligence charge on the arrest warrant is most applicable here.

    Under FLA law, “With culpable negligence, the accused must not only act unreasonably with respect to his or her duty, but he or she must also exhibit gross recklessness, or wanton disregard for others” which seems to apply here.

    That seems to perfectly describe the situation.

    He’ll probably get off rather lightly if found guilty though.

    Maybe a couple of months.

    1. Arrgg… we shouldn’t even call the accused a murderer

      EDIT FUNCTION PLEASE!

  21. I’m not sure cowardice is the right word. How ’bout rational? In exchange for a reasonable salary, I wouldn’t mind assuming a small risk that I might be placed in a dangerous position. But if the odds suddenly change, and I find I must place myself is a gravely dangerous position, hey, there’s other jobs. I mean, what have those kids ever done for me.

    But if there’s cop with a 9mm outside of a school during a shooting, we need him inside the school. A 9mm against an AR15 is a roughly fair fight, and there’s a good chance that the cop will save many lives. The downside is the risk that the cop will become a victim, but will presumably replace at least one of the kid victims.

    But if we don’t punish cops who fail to step up when duty calls, they might decide, hey, better a live coward than a dead hero.

  22. Two comments comments completely unrelated to each other.
    1. As a former prosecutor (and Child Services attorney) this feels wrong; the law shouldn’t penalize authentic and reasonable human emotions and actions, and should not demand that every guy with a badge be a hero.
    2. If we want to accept this as a premise for CRIMINAL liability, I think every 15-20 week old fetus who has ever been aborted needs to file a class action lawsuit for wrongful death.

    1. ‘. . . the law shouldn’t penalize authentic and reasonable human emotions and actions. . . .”

      That’s true for us schmoes; however, cops volunteered for the position; are vetted, tested, and then accepted; then are specifically trained to face and succeed in such situations.

      You can’t use the same standards and expectations for a non-cop with a cop.

      1. I’m not fully convinced either way (the first thing that occurred to me was “how did ‘Law and Order’ not use this fact pattern to give St. Jack McCoy a shot at cowardly cops?”).
        But what you’re articulating strikes me as more of a tort law standard than a criminal one.

    2. I suppose if all he did was cower then this might apply. However he was not only trained but a trainer in Active Shooter; as well as his communications hampered the response by other Broward county personnel arriving on scene. That is negligence regardless of any presumed duties of a fully trained police officer on duty.

  23. […] Eugene Volokh has some words on these charges worth reading: […]

  24. In a confrontation with an armed and barricaded subject the police will generally set up a perimeter, call for backup and assess the situation. Of course an active shooter situation is different and more urgent. However I’m not clear on whether the officer knew there was only one shooter, if there were multiple shooters it would seem reckless to simply charge in.

    Assessing the situation would seem the wiser course, although it doesn’t seem he did much of that either. The messages sent by radio would however seem to indicate something else was going on. If backup was arriving it seems at least they should have been deployed to secure a perimeter.

  25. I’m not sure how you could argue that the officer didn’t have a duty to risk his life. What else are you there to do? Why do you carry a gun? Is someone else above you? If risking your life isn’t part of the job, whose job is it? Does Peterson have to call Judge Dredd? Why is he able to risk his life during other police duties but not in a school?

    The story is suspicious af, especially since Scott Israel’s son is a suspected pedo who got arrested and had his case dropped thanks to the arresting officer, none other than one Scot Peterson.

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American Values

Prudent Minimalism: How to Forge a National Consensus

The fourth post in the Volokh Conspiracy symposium on "Our American Story: The Search for a Shared National Narrative" (ed. by Joshua Claybourn).

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The United States today is a sprawling country that contains around 325 million individuals of decidedly different views on large numbers of social and political issues.  One challenge that faces our nation, like any other, is how to forge some national identity that will allow us to move forward together in ways that allow for disagreements at home and protect us against our enemies abroad.  The common attitude toward this problem is to try to reconcile the irreconcilable by reaching agreement on the many, many issues that divide us as a nation.  In my view that effort to create a top-down consensus by force is far more likely to result in an exacerbation of the very tensions we are trying to ease.

The more people argue about points that really matter to them, the clearer they come to understand the depth of their differences.  An evangelical Christian will not agree to the proposition that religion is the opiate of the people, or that it is immoral to deviate from the Biblical commandments, including those that define marriage as a union between one man and one woman.  A supporter of Black Lives Matter will not rest easily so long as he or she thinks that institutional sexism or racism disfigures the face of the nation, and that much of that is attributable to a form of white supremacy that needs to be suppressed by the relentless enforcement of the civil rights laws.  And persons who are determined to eliminate poverty within our midst will have little patience with innovators and entrepreneurs who think that they can only thrive in a low tax, weak regulation environment.

My greatest fear for the future is that a constant insistence that all of these issues admit to  some collective solution will drive the nation even further apart than it already is.  To see why, it is important to return to fundamentals about the basic function of government.  I start from the premise that government works best only on those issues on which consensus across different social and economic groups is highest.  The first issue that meets that test is in my view the need to preserve order against the use or threat of force by private individuals against each other.  There is no one who can prosper knowing that lives may be shattered and property taken at the whim of others.  Even if most people in the world are law-abiding, it only takes on individual to wreak havoc, which is why the traditional preoccupation of  Thomas Hobbes or a John Locke to constrain the use of force lies at the heart of proper government function. On that issue at least, we should be able to maintain a needed consensus.  A similar approach explains why it is dangerous to put the monopoly power over essential facilities in the hands of a single person, to admit or exclude others at will.  The origins of the nondiscrimination principle in our law does not begin with the modern civil rights movement.  It begins with the notion that the owners of common carriers and public utilities had a duty to serve all persons equally on fair and nondiscriminatory terms.  The mechanics way be difficult to execute, but the basic principle remains a sound today as when it was announced by Sir Matthew Hale in England in the late seventeenth century.

The modern civil rights law also put this nondiscrimination principle front and center but with this critical difference.  No longer are the antidiscrimination rules used as an antidote to the public or private use of monopoly power.  Now they are asserted to apply in competitive markets as well, notwithstanding this huge difference.  Under competition, there are legions of other individuals who are prepared to render service if any given firm or individual is not.  To force individuals to serve those whom they do not wish to do has little gain in this context, regardless of the reasons offered for that decision.  Even straight racism, sexism or anti-Semitism has little social consequence if and only if the champions of those attitude cannot call on the power of the state to legislate their preferences into law.  The worst forms of discrimination will have strong negative reputational effects on the businesses that practices.  But they will not have that consequence if a substantial portion of the population is willing to continue to do business with those who hold those disfavored views.

A long time ago, Justice Harlan Fiske Stone announced that courts had to be especially zealous in the protection of "discrete and insular minorities" that could not protect themselves in the legislative process.  American blacks tortured by systematic state segregation—an abuse of government monopoly power—was a group in desperate need of protection from state power. But the victory of the civil rights movement should not blind us to the dangers that remain.  Individuals like Jack Phillips, the practicing Christian who refused out of religious convention to design a wedding case for a same-sex couple is as much in need of that protection from the modern "civil rights laws" as black Americans decades ago.  It is wholly improper for the state to force him to engage in that conduct against conscience.  The disappointed  gay couple can obtain a wedding case from dozens of nearby merchants.  Yet today Jack Phillips must face the intolerable choice to either abandon his religion or his business.  The constant drumbeat against him creates an atmosphere of abuse and resentment—not to mention overt threats of physical violence—that no decent society can accept. The long-term principle of religious toleration is put at risk by the modern civil rights movement, precisely because it fails to recognize any fundamental limitations on state power. Remember state monopoly power can be a danger whether used by our enemies or our friends.

 

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53 responses to “Prudent Minimalism: How to Forge a National Consensus

  1. This all assumes there need be national consensuses (consensi?) on everything we do as individuals.

    No one ever suggests cutting back the scope of government. No, all you statists think only of ways to force everyone to agree on some miserable compromises on how we mind each others’ business.

    Consider that a society which emphasizes individualism, agency, responsibility, and accountability can perfectly well allow those who want socialism to voluntarily simulate socialism by contracting with each other to their hearts’ content; they can turn over their property and income according to whatever contracts they want.

    But a coercive socialist society cannot simulate individualism. It can’t even tolerate it.

    There’s your consensus, as voluntary and individual as people want.

    1. “No one ever suggests cutting back the scope of government.”

      Do you refer to proponents of bigoted, authoritarian immigration policies and practices? Advocates of statist womb management and big-government micromanagement of certain medical facilities? Those who believe government should enforce essentially limitless special privilege for religious claimants? Supporters of military belligerence and massive military budgets?

  2. It would certainly be nice to have a consensus to invoke the civil rights laws only against potential monopolists.

    However, we know that there is certainly no consensus on this issue, or likely to be one. On the contrary, the *mildest* term millions of people will apply to advocates of this libertarian position will be “divisive.”

    So if avoiding divisiveness is the important thing, why not simply go with the flow and let the government expand the civil-rights laws, hoping that the deployment of enough police will suffice to get people to fall in line?

  3. So Epstein thinks the first step to achieving a more unified country is to repeal civil rights laws?

    Yeah. That’ll work. Sure. Great idea.

    1. He did not say that.

    2. Agree with b11.

      Epstein’s blog took a wacky turn there at the end into one of the more divisive issues of our times.

      Not sure how that’s going to forge a national consensus.

      1. Yeah, if Richard Epstein is disagreeing with Eugene Volokh, who filed an amicus brief supporting the proposition that Phillips should be put out of business, that bodes ill for the prospect of forming a national consensus.

    3. A cake from every single bakery in the nation is not/should not be a civil right

      1. Should universities be entitled to exclude from their faculties every person who claims to believe in superstition — that supernatural stories are true, at the expense of science and reason?

        I doubt conservatives are ready to permit schools to refuse to hire anyone who claims to believe in creationism, or in a man rising from the dead, or a man living inside a fish, etc.

        1. If its a government created oligarchy providing a necessary service and gobbling up tons of taxpayer money ie the college system and big media platforms they should be under heightened scrutiny for discriminatory practices. If its 1 privately owned cake shop out of millions across the country not so much.

        2. Private universities, sure. Public, no, as that is government punishing religion.

          Indeed I recommend private facilities that ban the religious to do so loudly and proudly.

          1. A lot of private universities extract the vast majority of their money from government grants and mandate, not the least of which, you are required to send your children at vast expense to be brainwashed for 4 years that biology is a social construct or else they don’t get a sheepskin that allows them to be gainfully employed. OTOH there is no government mandate that you need a SSM cake from every single cake shop in the country. Now imagine telling an objective alien which is controversial and which isn’t

            1. no government mandate that you need one but there is a government mandate that they provide them funnily enough.

          2. Others can’t discriminate against superstition-based claimants. The superstitious, however, can discriminate based on bigotry.

            Got it. Good luck with persuading modern America on that.

            1. No, thats not it at all. If a cabal of fundamentalist Christians ran the vast majority of college campuses where you had to attend to get a job and also owned all of Silicon Valley I would be fine with government action to make sure that atheists and hindus got a fair shake while uploading the right of 1 muslim baker to choose not to bake a fundamentalist christian cake if there was a million other functionally equivalent or better alternatives available.

              1. Are you unfamiliar with the hundreds of conservative-controlled campuses that discriminate — customarily based on religion — in everything from admissions to hiring (professors to basketball coaches and janitors)? That engage in strenuous censorship and mock academic freedom? That teach nonsense, suppress science, mock history — yet are accredited nonetheless?

                These schools tend to be low-quality, low-ranked (or unranked) goober factories with sketchy accreditation and poor performance, but they exist and should not be disregarded. At least, not by honest, informed, decent people.

              2. No, thats not it at all.

                That is exactly it.

                What you see, over and over, is that y’all are arguing that any given butcher, baker or candle-stick maker should be able to refuse me service because of what his god thinks of gays.

                But at the same time, I am statutorily prohibited from refusing service to any given butcher/baker/candle-stick-maker based on what their god thinks of gays.

                And I am told this is “compromise”.

                1. 1 private baker =! Silicon Valley Oligarchy/University Oligarchy. This isn’t rocket science sheesh.

  4. In Blackstone’s time, innkeepers and “victuallers” were in a competitive market. Despite that, the Commentaries say they are obliged to serve everyone unless there is good reason, and that someone turned away without good reason has a cause of action.
    In living memory in my country, a competitive market for travel services left open a need for The Green Book to tell African-Americans where it was safe to stay on road trips. My country also realized that a lunch counter was a “victualler” and that “Just go to another lunch counter!” was not an acceptable solution.
    There’s a clear difference between that and wedding cakes, and the law could reasonably treat the two differently.

  5. The mechanics way be difficult to execute

    Ancient Philosopher Confuseus says: What????

  6. Not much of a solution since this idea of minimalism itself will be rejected. The belief system currently in vogue among the Twitterati, as a generalization of Marxist ‘thought’ from economic class into sex and race, needs conflict and the ‘other’ to exist. There has to be a struggle of the ‘oppressed’ overcoming the ‘oppressors’ thats a Prog’s reason to get up from bed in the morning. They derive meaning both from identifying as a victim and saving victims from the evil cis white males misgendering or making video game characters with big boobs or sticking plastic straws up turtle noses. Its one more day staving off the existential dread of your utter insignificance and powerlessness in modern day life.

    If conflit doesn’t exist it will be invented. See microaggressions, the sudden importance of transgender bathrooms, and affirmative consent every 20 seconds, to life when somehow people got along without it since up until 5 years ago. So they’ll be unhappy with any solution about leaving others to do their own thing especially if it actually works. I mean I guess you can say that about any authoritarian creed but its built into the very bones of modern ‘Social Justice’.

  7. “Even straight racism, sexism or anti-Semitism has little social consequence if and only if the champions of those attitude cannot call on the power of the state to legislate their preferences into law.”

    So e.g. black children growing up in an environment in which many businesses (actually or in effect) post ‘whites only’ signs in their storefront windows has little social consequence? If you believe this, Richard, I think that you are being naïve, reprehensibly callous, or willfully obtuse.

    1. Yes. It’s nonsense. In fact, he seems to contradict himself in the very next sentence:

      The worst forms of discrimination will have strong negative reputational effects on the businesses that practices. But they will not have that consequence if a substantial portion of the population is willing to continue to do business with those who hold those disfavored views.

      He also overlooks the case where reputational effects go the other way – where there are a significant number of customers who are attracted by the discriminatory practices.

      1. B11, I agree that Richard’s next sentence contradicts the one I quoted, but with my example (which concerned the objects of racism rather than its perpetrators) I was making a different, and I think more important, point.

  8. I think the very concept of some kind of national identity is flawed. Only in times of dire emergency does a community, much less a nation, put aside its differences to accomplish a goal. And, that goal needs to be able to be articulated as something very simple (even if the process of accomplishing it is complex).

    Having said that, it does start with the concept of “civil rights.” But laws? Maybe not. At the moment, not baking a cake can land you out of business, or possibly, even in jail. Not baking one for a neo-nazi, not so much. Your social, ethnic, racial, or economic status, might help you get into the college of your choice. Unless, of course, one is of Asian descent, in which case your high achievements might work against you. Those are just a couple of examples.

    Unless the large majority of members of a community can agree that individual rights cannot be abrogated for somebody else’s “good,” we will always fall short of any kind of consensus. Easily said. Nigh impossible to achieve.

  9. If Epstein thinks that bigoted cake makers are as in need of civil rights protections as black folks are, I’m glad to say that I do not wish to form a national consensus with him.

    1. I believe it important to note that not all religious Americans are poorly educated, bigoted, stale-thinking people.

      And that bigotry is not improved when wrapped in a cloak of superstition.

  10. Have always appreciated Professor Epstein, brilliant guy. This post could easily be a dictation from a 3 minute off the cuff comment.

    The point made reminded me of this amazing video:

    How Anti Racism Hurts Black People – John McWhorter

  11. Cool story.

    If it’s that important to you to protect Phillips, there are a few ethical paths to follow.

    (A) Change laws limiting the legal notion of “public accommodations” such that contracted services such as his custom-cake services are not public accommodations.
    (B) Give everyone a “conscience exemption” to non-discrimination laws.
    (C) Repeal all non-discrimination laws and see what happens.

    These responses do not prioritize any one group or belief over another, and continue to treat everyone equally before the law. Anti-gay beliefs are no more protected then anti-Semitic or anti-black beliefs.

    Instead, religious liberty activists went with option (D) argue that anti-gay religious beliefs are uniquely important and should receive exemptions to non-discrimination laws that no other religious belief receives.

    They argued it in court: give anti-gay beliefs special protections, but don’t those dirty anti-black or anti-Jew beliefs aren’t worth protecting.

    We see it in legislatures: give exceptions for anti-gay beliefs, but leave the non-exception status quo for all other categories.

    We see it in articles like this. Call out the half-dozen non-discrimination cases involving gay people in the last decade, but never mention the literally hundreds of non-discrimination cases that happen, ever year, involving race, religion, ethnicity, sex and so-on.

    So long as you insist on treating anti-gay beliefs as uniquely deserving of protection, you will lose, even if you “win”. Why? Because if you were actually okay with tearing down all non-discrimination laws (which will happen if you “win”), you wouldn’t be arguing in favor of treating anti-gay beliefs as a special case.

    1. I’d say that if, for example, a Nation of Islam baker didn’t want to cater an interracial wedding, the happy couple could simply go to the baker who *isn’t* in the NOI and get their ceremony catered.

      As a matter of fact, I’d wonder about an interracial couple who were so insistent on using the occasion of their wedding to legally harass a Black Muslim who literally did nothing to them, except send them and their business elsewhere.

      But in addition to this, one can’t simply insist that new suspect classes should be continuously added to the civil-rights laws. If sexual orientation must be protected, why not political orientation? Why is one more deserving of protection than the other?

      But if you add political orientation, then you get compulsory National Socialist cakes for Hitler’s birthday, just like Gary Johnson advocated.

      1. And why not size discrimination? Force big-and-tall clothing stores to sell clothes for skinny people, and conversely force all stores to sell clothes for larger persons.

        Then add dietary preferences to the statutory list. Why should a kosher deli discriminate against pork-lovers? Why shouldn’t pork-eaters be able to walk into any restaurant – open to the public, remember – and demand a nice ham sandwich, never mind any silly religious objections?

        Really, is there any logical stopping place?

        1. You know, I hear that Bubba’s BBQ Shack doesn’t offer a full menu of vegan options. Aren’t vegans human beings?

          “Hath not a vegan eyes? hath not a vegan hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with the same food…”

          OK, not fed with the same food, but you get the idea. What kind of bigotry can account for the law giving Bubba a free pass to discriminate against vegans?

          1. OK, you ran out of steam on this one.

            Bubba can serve what he/she/ze feels like.

            There are laws about who he can’t deny service to.

            1. Right.

              Bubba can decide what we wants to put on his menu. But if a vegan decides to stray, and comes in looking for a rack of ribs Bubba does have to serve them.

              1. Yes, but why should the law be this way? So far I’ve seen no clear principle from your allies about what should be a suspect classification or not.

                Simply saying “well the law doesn’t say that” misses my point – after all, plenty of jurisdictions don’t list sexual orientation as a suspect classification, yet I presume you want those jurisdictions to *change* their laws.

                What other suspect classifications should they add, or is sexual preference somehow more sacred than political preference, eating habits (talk about genetic predispositions!), etc.

                1. And as for selling BBQ on equal terms to vegans and non-vegans, do you think a similar ruse would work in the case of race discrimination? A store has beauty products geared only toward white-skinned people, but allows dark-skinned people to buy those products – would that fly?

                  1. A store has beauty products geared only toward white-skinned people, but allows dark-skinned people to buy those products – would that fly?
                    Yes. Hair salons do it all the time. Pressuring cosmetic companies to expand their lines is a social issue, not a legal one.

                    1. Very interesting…sounds like a loophole for the legislature to close, wouldn’t you concur?

        2. re: “force all stores to sell clothes for larger persons”
          My wife is from Argentina. She tells me that this is the case there.
          (Nuts, if you ask me. But then, most “progressive” ideas are.)

      2. I’d say that if, for example, a Nation of Islam baker didn’t want to cater an interracial wedding, the happy couple could simply go to the baker who *isn’t* in the NOI and get their ceremony catered.

        Part of the problem here is the implicit assumption that discrimination of this sort is an odd, one-off phenomenon that doesn’t really have much effect.

        That’s not true. We know that there are distinct, identifiable, groups who have suffered discrimination from a great many sources. It is a systemic problem, not a rare idiosyncrasy. Treating it as if it’s just some lunatic who doesn’t like red-headed people or something is misunderstanding the problem.

        1. The original post suggested invoking “civil rights” laws only in the face of a monopolistic situation.

          Nowadays we see popular celebrities marrying interracially, and in short a sea change in attitudes. Can we still say there’s a monopolistic situation where interracial couples need a Green Book to find a caterer?

          1. Some changes in attitudes. Not necessarily universal ones. There are plenty of people around who think SSM, for example, is immoral, or somehow wrong. And there is plenty of bigotry.

            I don’t see the case for restricting the civil rights law to monopolistic situations. Restaurants and hotels, to take an obvious example, surely operate in a competitive environment, yet they practiced discrimination, even in places where that was not required by law.

            Employers in the Jim Crow South were not subject to laws requiring discrimination in hiring and other employment practices, yet they engaged in it widely.

            1. When you see Strom Thurmond supporting the appointment, to the Supreme Court, of a black man married to a white woman, then I think “sea change” is the appropriate term to describe the change in attitudes.

              1. And I suppose I should mention electing a President who was born of an interracial relationship.

                There’s really no avoiding the existence of a fairly fundamental change in attitudes.

                As for monopolies, my take is that if you can show the business whose practices you’re challenging remains rife with racism, etc., then by all means hold that business to account for the discrimination in the industry…though that’s still not a good excuse to violate the religious freedom of the Black Muslim baker.

                1. For interracial marriage I think “sea change” is appropriate.

                2. OTOH, there is stuff like this.

          2. So choose option C and get on with it.

            But if you’re going to keep the law, there’s no call to pretend offense when someone seeks to use it.

            1. “pretend offense”

              There are so many psychics on the Internet with the power to read minds…with your skills you could really pull in the big bucks.

      3. “Find another baker” is a cop-out, and you should know that if you don’t already.

        Simply put, if it would be wrong to enforce our non-discrimination laws, then the non-discrimination law is wrong and should be changed.

        1. I’m not the only one suggesting changes to the civil-rights laws.

          I would change them so that the plaintiff has to prove a pattern of discrimination in the industry to which the company he’s suing belongs. You can throw out terms like “cop-out”…or you could use actual arguments against that idea.

          Meanwhile, you want to change federal and state civil-rights laws to add a new suspect classification – sexual orientation. You’re not content to simply leave the laws as they are, with some laws covering sexual orientation and others not.

          Yet you fail to articulate the principle on which which you operate in adding new suspect classifications. Is sexual orientation the *only* classification you want to add, or do you have other changes in mind? Why, for example, should businesses be free to discriminate based on politics – refusing service to citizens who simply want to honor the birthday of their favorite politician?

  12. I’ve been curious for a while as to how far anti-discrimination laws restrict speech rather than actions.

    Is a racist business owner allowed to hang a sign espousing said racism, as long as he serves the people he despises?

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Good Articles or Books on Legal Careers

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I'm putting together a series of panels for 1Ls on what options they'll have for real-world practice, and I'd love to have some good (and, preferably, short) readings on various kinds of lawyering—some on big-firm practice, some on medium-firm, some on solo practice, some on government work, some on nonprofit, some on in-house, and so on.

I'm not looking either for puff pieces or for jeremiads (or for that matter satires, however funny); nor am I looking for practice tips or substantive legal analysis. Rather, I want something that will honestly and thoughtfully discuss for would-be lawyers the pluses and minuses—financial, intellectual, emotional, spiritual—of a particular kind of job. Any suggestions? Many thanks!

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

9 responses to “Good Articles or Books on Legal Careers

  1. When I was a 1L, I found “Damages” by Barry Werth and “A Civil Action” by Jonathan Harr (yes, later made into a movie starring John Travolta) to be detailed–yet vivid and interesting–accounts of big-firm life, complete with depositions, pre-trial civil litigation motions and filings, etc. “Damages” is med-mal, while “A Civil Action” is more toxic tort/environmental law. In both books, I thought the author did an excellent job of taking the reader through the lengthy litigation process while keeping it interesting and relatable.

  2. Double Billing by Cameron Stracher isn’t a bad tale of the life of a new associate in Big Law. It’s not nearly as salacious as the subtitle suggests.

  3. I wish I had more insights into in-house practice as a law student (probably my fault for not seeking out the resources while I was at UCLA). Now that I’m at Amazon, I’ve come to appreciate how important risk calibration is in advice to the business. There’s a great interview with Amazon’s GC on how we look at risk: https://m.acc.com/docket/articles/q-a-with-eic-global-risks-amazon-gc-david-zapolsky.cfm

  4. IANAL, but HOW TO READ A LEGAL OPINION
    A GUIDE FOR NEW LAW STUDENTS
    Orin S. Kerr
    looks to be a good place to start.

  5. Be sure to point out that a significant portion of people with JD degrees do work that isn’t lawyering.

  6. The YouTube channel Legal Eagle started out making a lot of videos about law school. Easiest way to find these videos is instead of going to the channel’s “videos” page, go to the “playlists” page. Not sure if any are precisely what you’re looking for, though.

    Reason I thought to mention it is because earlier today I watched the video about real lawyer reviews Suits (the TV show, most videos he makes now are on the topic “Real lawyer reviews [movie or TV show]”). In it he criticized how inaccurate some of the actions of the lawyers were but praised how accurate the portrayals of recruiting for big firms was. Since he’s in the LA area maybe you could contact him and ask if any videos are really on topic (rather that try to watch many of them).

  7. I’d be the last person to give advice on careers or careens, but I remember reading the authorized Cravath history at a coffeehouse one day during 1L. Your students shouldn’t do that.

  8. How about professional blawger and contributor to Vox Insta-Symposiums?

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The Morocco-China Connection

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This item has two names, one connected to Morocco and one (perhaps more indirectly) to China. What is it?

American Values

Less Jefferson, More Franklin

The third post in the Volokh Conspiracy symposium on "Our American Story: The Search for a Shared National Narrative" (ed. by Joshua Claybourn).

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My reward for ten years of blogging is a guest post here. In all seriousness, I'm very grateful to Eugene and his co-conspirators for giving me the opportunity to write about my contribution to Our American Story.

Some of the essays in the book preach the faith that what makes our national experience special are the universal ideals of liberty and equality expressed in the Declaration of Independence and made concrete by the Constitution. My essay takes the opposite view. What made the United States distinctive was its political pragmatism. The emblem of that approach is Benjamin Franklin, the Founder who is rarely invoked by the Supreme Court. (Though, as Randy would surely point out, the Chief Justice did cite Franklin's line about "death and taxes" in his opinion upholding the Affordable Care Act.) Franklin famously said at the close of the Constitutional Convention that he supported the proposal in spite of its many flaws. And his literary alter ego in Poor Richard's Almanack once explained: "In the affairs of this world men are saved, not by faith, but by the want of it."

Why do I say that our true national creed is pragmatism? Part of the answer is that this was the conclusion of the leading European commentators on the United States well into the twentieth century. Let me give you three examples. In Democracy in America, Alexis de Tocqueville remarked: "Nothing has made me admire the good sense and the practical intelligence of the Americans," he wrote, "more than the way they avoid the innumerable difficulties deriving from their Federal Constitution." Walter Bagehot, the founding editor of The Economist and author of a classic book on The English Constitution, wrote in the 1860s: "Americans now extol their institutions and so defraud themselves of their due praise . . . If they had not a genius for politics, if they had not a moderation in action singularly curious where superficial speech is so violent . . . the multiplicity of authorities in the American Constitution would long ago have brought it to a bad end. Sensible shareholders, I have heard a shrewd attorney say, can work any deed of settlement; and so the men of Massachusetts could, I believe, work any constitution." And James Bryce, who served as Britain's Ambassador to the United States from 1907-13, said that he was dubious of what he called the "tools" provided by the Constitution, but "[t]he defects of the tools are the glory of the workman." What he meant was that "the American people have a practical aptitude for politics, a clearness of vision and capacity for self-government never equaled in any other nation." "Such a people," Bryce concluded, "can work any Constitution."

I doubt that any foreign observers would say the same thing about the United States now. Political practice today more closely resembles Jefferson's uncompromising ideals rather than Franklin's common sense. Indeed, we are approaching the point where Barry Goldwater's adage: "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" will be a description and not a slogan. The problem with even the best ideals is that they become dangerous fictions when taken literally. (Jefferson himself said many crazy things but almost always acted cautiously.)

Since a shared identity probably must be rooted in the nation's Founding, my modest suggestion is that we elevate the Founder who was not a lawyer or a theorist. Franklin's experience came from the most practical of pursuits–first as a publisher, then as a scientist, and finally as a diplomat. He was the pioneer of what we now call civic society in his adopted hometown of Philadelphia. As Franklin said in his proposal for what became the University of Pennsylvania, education should cultivate "an inclination joined with an ability to serve mankind, one's country, friends and family." So should politics.

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26 responses to “Less Jefferson, More Franklin

  1. “Political practice today more closely resembles Jefferson’s uncompromising ideals rather than Franklin’s common sense.”

    It’s disappointing that scholars only read headlines and listen to the noise like the rest of us schmoes, and don’t actually see the reality.

    The House and Senate passed a bill to fund efforts to fight the illegal opioid trade and treat those addicted by 98-1 and 393-8 vote, respectively.

    A 5-year, nearly $100 billion FAA re-authorization bill that’s been roiling D.C. for years passed on Oct. 3 by 93-6 in the Senate and 398-23 in the House.

    A defense appropriations bill signed into law by the president on Sept. 28 also covered health and human services, education, and labor. It had a total of over $850 billion in allocations, and passed 93-7 in the Senate and 361-61 in the House.

    Sure, there are political fights (which, ahem, is a good thing), but to make blanket statements about “uncompromising ideals” is . . . disappointing.

    1. plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

  2. If the U. S. is so pragmatic, how did we end up with a civil war over slavery?

    Near the end of his life, Franklin (apparently deviating from his prior practice) became a strong antislavery advocate. As President of an antislavery society in Pennsylvania, he petitioned Congress to go to the very limits of its power to fight slavery.

    This part of the petition is particularly noteworthy: “That mankind are all formed by the same Almighty being, alike objects of his Care & equally designed for the Enjoyment of Happiness the Christian Religion teaches us to believe & *the Political Creed of America* fully coincides with the Position.” (emphasis added)

    http://www.benjamin-franklin-history.org/petition-from-the-pennsylvania-society-for-the-abolition-of-slavery/

    It was this sort of abolitionist sentiment which finally led the Confederate states to secede to protect their Peculiar Institution, precipitating the Civil War.

    1. And here is a satire Franklin wrote to, in modern terms, own the pro-slavers:

      https://sniggle.net/historicus.php

    2. “how did we end up with a civil war over slavery?”

      It was a war over secession and federalism.

        1. Abe Lincoln said:
          “I have no purpose, directly or in-directly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.”
          “My policy sought only to collect the Revenue (a 40 percent federal sales tax on imports to Southern States under the Morrill Tariff Act of 1861).”
          “In doing this there needs to be no bloodshed or violence, and there shall be none unless it be forced upon the national authority. The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the Government and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion, no using of force against or among the people anywhere.”

          And then upon secession, he declared war but made no mention of slavery, instead saying:
          “Whereas an insurrection against the Government of the United States has broken out ..and the laws of the United States for the collection of the revenue cannot be effectually executed.” Apr. 19 1861 Lincoln’s war proclamation against Confederate States

          South Carolina, in leading the secession of the Confederate States in Dec 1860:

          “The Revolution of 1776, turned upon one great principle, self-government, –and self-taxation, the criterion of self-government. Where the interests of two people united together under one Government, are different, each must have the power to protect its interests by the organization of the Government, or they cannot be free..
          The Southern States, now stand exactly in the same position towards the Northern States, that the Colonies did towards Great Britain. The Northern States, having the majority in Congress, claim the same power of omnipotence in legislation as the British parliament. ..
          The consolidation of the Government of Great Britain over the Colonies, was attempted to be carried out by the taxes. …
          And so with the Southern States, towards the Northern States, in the vital matter of taxation. They are in a minority in Congress. Their representation in Congress, is useless to protect them against unjust taxation; and they are taxed by the people of the North for their benefit, exactly as the people of Great Britain taxed our ancestors in the British parliament for their benefit. For the last forty years, the taxes laid by the Congress of the United States have been laid with a view of subserving the interests of the North. The people of the South have been taxed by duties on imports, not for revenue, but for an object inconsistent with revenue–to promote, by prohibitions, Northern interests in the productions of their mines and manufactures.

          There is another evil, in the condition of the Southern toward the Northern States, which our ancestors refused to bear toward Great Britain. Our ancestors not only taxed themselves, but all the taxes collected from them, were expended among them. Had they submitted to the pretensions of the British Government, the taxes collected from them, would have been expended in other parts of the British Empire. They were fully aware of the effect of such a policy in impoverishing the people from whom taxes are collected, and in enriching those who receive the benefit of their expenditure. To prevent the evils of such a policy, was one of the motives which drove them on to Revolution. Yet this British policy, has been fully realized towards the Southern States, by the Northern States. The people of the Southern States are not only taxed for the benefit of the Northern States, but after the taxes are collected, three-fourths of them are expended at the North.”

          –Address of South Carolina | December 25, 1860

          The Emancipation Proclamation itself states that it was “a fit and necessary war measure for suppressing” the rebellion against taxes. The Emancipation Proclamation itself offered to let the South keep slavery, if they would only come back and pay the 40 percent sales tax within 3 months. Only if they did not do so within 3 months, would slaves be emancipated as a war measure, and even then the million slaves under Northern control were exempted including General Grant’s.

          Then you have the war itself, which is different from secession. Retaining self-government and independence was the reason for secession, and slavery was sadly one of the examples of self-government in that day. But the war was started by Lincoln and the south acted in self-defense. Secession and war are two different things. Link: “After the first states seceded, many in the Northern press expressed opposition to war with the South. Writing in the New York Tribune, Horace Greeley declared, “We hope never to live in a republic where one section is pinned to the residue by bayonets.” (6)

          The Tribune was among the great newspapers of its time, an influential journal of the Republican party, and Greeley was among the day’s opinion leaders.

          Moreover, many of Lincoln’s advisors also recommended against any action that might lead to a war with the South. Even Lincoln’s top Army commander wanted nothing to do with war. “Let the wayward sisters depart in peace,” urged General Winfield Scott.

          Secretary of State, William Seward, also advised the new president to let the rebellious states go and avoid actions that could upset the states of the upper-South. He thought that eventually, the aggrieved states would see the error of their ways and campaign for reunification. “I do not think it wise to provoke a Civil War beginning in Charleston and in rescue of an untenable position,’’ Seward insisted.

          But it didn’t take long before Northern newspaper editors did the math and realized what secession really meant for Northern enterprises..”

          1. “It was necessary to put the South at a moral disadvantage by transforming the contest from a war waged against states fighting for their independence into a war waged against states fighting for the maintenance and extension of slavery.” — Woodrow Wilson

            “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.” — Abe Lincoln

            “The Northern onslaught upon slavery is no more than a piece of specious humbug designed to conceal its desire for economic control of the Southern states.” — Charles Dickens

            1. Apologists for and appeasers of bigotry are among my favorite faux libertarians.

              1. Thanks for the help, Kirkland, I really appreciate your support. 🙁

                1. You figure this is the thing that will turn the half-century tide of the culture war — and to turn it toward favoring conservatives? Is this the end of the liberal-libertarian mainstream’s shaping of American progress?

                  I doubt it.

                  1. As predictable as a wind-up music box.

                    1. As predictable as the improvement in America’s electorate, the continuing trajectory of American progress, and the rejection of right-wing political preferences.

            2. Also from the South Carolina declaration:

              “…an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.”

              The fact that the North was dragged unwillingly into adding emancipation/abolition to its war aims doesn’t contradict the thesis that the war was about slavery.

              The sequence of events is, to put it mildly, suggestive:

              (a) Southern states seceded, most announcing slavery as the prime cause

              (b) The North goes to war to bring the South back, while at first disclaiming emancipationist intent

              (c) This initial reluctance gives way to an emancipationist policy

              (d) At the risk of his re-election in 1864, Lincoln announces emancipation along with reunion as the irreducible minimum conditions for stopping the war

              (e) Slavery gets abolished.

              1. And Wilson was a nationalist racist who praised Lincoln *despite,* not *because of,* Lincoln’s freeing of the slaves.

                1. Check this out from 2 days ago: China Invokes Abraham Lincoln in Justifying Push to Take Taiwan

                  The legacy lives on! And what legacy is that? China isn’t talking about slavery or emancipation, of course. They’re talking about tyrannical opposition to self-government.

                  Last century too, there was a little book called Mein Kampf, with a chapter called “Federalism as a Mask”, and that author was also very fond of Lincoln’s view of things. From Mises Institute, Confronting the Lincoln Cult: “Hitler’s own book, Mein Kampf, which makes a case for the German union in the same terms that Lincoln made the case for American union.

                  Hitler writes that “individual states of the American Union . . . could not have possessed any state sovereignty of their own. For it was not these states that formed the Union, on the contrary it was the Union which formed a great part of such so-called states.” This was also Lincoln’s view.

                  Hitler goes on to say: “Certainly all the states in the world are moving toward a certain unification in their inner organization. And in this Germany will be no exception. Today it is an absurdity to speak of a ‘state sovereignty’ of individual provinces.” And further: “In particular we cannot grant to any individual state within the nation and the state representing it state sovereignty and sovereignty in point of political power.” Finally: “National Socialism as a matter of principle, must lay claim to the right to force its principles on the whole German nation without consideration of previous federated state boundaries.””

                  So, it appears the civil war, or as it might be more accurately called the failed revolutionary war for independence, was about more than just slavery. Slavery would have ended either way, but the larger principles that were actually at issue are of enduring relevance. In fact, they will only become more relevant in time as the march for centralization of government seems set to continue and expand globally. Yes, at that time in history threats/infringements to slavery were seen as one of the primary manifestations of hostility to self-government and independence, paradoxically so, because slavery is a denial of human dignity and self-determination. But the North absolutely didn’t go to war for a noble cause of freeing slaves, they did it for economic reasons (as usual with wars) and to protect tax revenue which was paid 80% by the South. Abolitionists were a minority, which is why Lincoln and other pols distanced themselves from them adamantly. Lincoln was also in favor of “colonization”, removing black people to Africa or the Caribbean.

                  “While any reasonable person today would find [Lincoln’s] remarks abhorrent and bigoted, it was not outside the popular thinking of the period. In fact, the idea of the colonization of blacks was so popular that Lincoln proposed it as an amendment to the Constitution in his second annual message to Congress in 1862. (21)

                  Colonization was a staple of Lincoln’s speeches and public comments from 1854 until about 1863. Lincoln’s views on race contrast sharply with his modern era image of the “Great Emancipator.”

                  Indeed, his public remarks, which are well-documented, indicate he had little regard for blacks.

                  “I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races.” (22)

                  And this is where the myth of the sympathetic North begins to unravel as well. While there was a strong abolitionist movement in the North, it was so small that Lincoln and other politicians didn’t associate themselves with it.

                  Contrary to popular modern-day belief, most white Northerners treated blacks with disdain, discrimination, and violence during the period leading up to the Civil War. Blacks were not allowed to vote, marry, or use the judicial system. ..

                  As Alexis de Tocqueville observed in Democracy in America, “the prejudice of the race appears to be stronger in the States which have abolished slavery, than in those where it still exists; and nowhere is it so intolerant as in those States where servitude has never been known.” (23)”

                  1. You’re getting into a new issue – was the Civil War worth the price in lives and liberty? Did it set bad precedents?

                    It doesn’t change the fact that slavery caused it.

                    “the myth of the sympathetic North”

                    I’m don’t think I went quite so far as to endorse that myth, I even mentioned how the North was as it were forced by events into freeing the slaves.

                    Like Wilson, Hitler and the Chinese regime praised Lincoln in spite of, not because of, his freeing the slaves.

                    As I mentioned, Lincoln made clear that even under a (fairly hypothetical) scenario where the South wanted to rejoin the Union while keeping its slaves, this would not be acceptable – reunion with abolition was the minimal condition of peace.

                    1. Well I would agree that slavery was a proximate cause of the war but I don’t think the war was primarily “about” slavery and it definitely wasn’t fought “over” slavery. The South fought for their independence, economic interest, and right to self-government (taxes, and slavery, just happened to be particular manifestations of the perceived tyranny and threat). For the North, slavery had even far less to do with the war than it did for the South. And Lincoln’s motives are more pertinent since he started the seemingly avoidable war.

                      Interestingly enough, we can tie this back to the OP. OP says “Jefferson himself said many crazy things but almost always acted cautiously.” Indeed, if Lincoln had been more like Jefferson, there would have been no war at all:

                      “From 1800 to 1815, three serious attempts at secession were orchestrated by New England Federalists, who were infuriated by what they believed was unconstitutional acts by President Thomas Jefferson.

                      Among the voices for secession was Connecticut Senator James Hillhouse who declared, “The Eastern States must and will dissolve the Union and form a separate government. I will rather anticipate a new confederacy, exempt from the corrupt and corrupting influence and oppression of the aristocratic Democrats of the South.”

                      “There will be — and our children at farthest will see it — a separation. The white and black population will mark the boundary,” wrote Timothy Pickering, the prominent Senator from Massachusetts. (12)

                      It was the belief of Hillhouse, Pickering, John Quincy Adams, and others that the South was gaining too much power and influence at a cost to the New England states.

                      What was Jefferson’s response to the threat of secession? It certainly wasn’t war.

                      “Whether we remain in one confederacy, or form into Atlantic and Mississippi confederacies, I believe not very important to the happiness of either part.” (13)

                      “Events may prove it otherwise; and if they see their interest in separation, why should we take side with our Atlantic rather than our Missipi descendants? It is the elder and the younger son differing. God bless them both, & keep them in union, if it be for their good, but separate them, if it be better.” (14)

                      From all outward accounts, Lincoln wanted a war with the South — some might say he needed it — and that’s what he got. The loss of tax revenues from the Southern ports would not go unpunished as he promised in his inaugural address.”

                    2. I would point out the centralizing tendencies of the proslavery leaders. Before the war they may have paid lip service to states’ rights, but they trampled on it in practice.

                      Criticizing the Fugitive Slave Act, Sen. Sumner of Massachusetts called it “an assumption by Congress of powers not delegated by the Constitution, and in derogation of the rights of the States.”

                      (Sumner, Defence of Massachusetts (Washington, Buell and Blanchard, 1854), 4.)

                      And the South Carolina Declaration above complains that the Northern states have obstructed or even “nullif(ied)” the federal Fugitive Slave Act. The Declaration even claimed for slaveowners the “right of transit” – i.e., taking their slaves through the free states without the slaves being emancipated by free-state law.

                    3. That is to say, the seceders were centralizers who pulled out of the Union not because of states’ rights, but because the central government wouldn’t centralize in the direction *they* wanted – a proslavery direction.

                    4. The South fought for their independence, economic interest, and right to self-government

                      A majority of those living in South Carolina in 1860 were slaves.

                      Independence? Self-government? Consent of the governed? And what was this “economic interest” you speak of? Answer: slaves.

                      What they fought for was the right to continue holding blacks as slaves.

                      From Mississippi’s resolution of secession:

                      Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery – the greatest material interest of the world.

                      (There too slaves were a majority.)

                      Many of the other resolutions and ordinances complain heavily, and primarily, about the threat to slavery from Lincoln and the refusal in many places to enforce the Fugitive Slave act.

                      To pretend it wasn’t about slavery is, as it were, to erase history.

            3. Millennial Lawyer, the mountain of crap you are peddling was, of course, orthodox “history,” taught in schools north and south—but especially south—for many decades, during the Jim Crow era. That dump truck got unloaded on me when I was growing up in Virginia and Maryland. Adherents with the beautifying impulses of connoisseurs called it, “The Lost Cause.”

              Pro-racists found The Lost Cause immensely reassuring, satisfying, and attractive—which is why it dominated my public school history curriculum. Thus I found myself—a year after Brown v. Board of Education—in a newly-integrated 3rd-grade classroom, which hosted 40+ students. About a third of them were blacks, complete strangers to the actual Montgomery County, Maryland school system, having just landed in it courtesy of a courageous school board which had gotten ahead of the curriculum. And all of us were belting out the rousing choruses of the Bonnie Blue Flag:

              We are a band of brothers and native to the soil

              Fighting for our liberty, with treasure, blood and toil

              And when our rights were threatened, the cry rose near and far

              Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star!
              Hurrah! Hurrah!

              For Southern rights, hurrah!

              Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

              As long as the Union was faithful to her trust

              Like friends and like brethren, kind we were, and just

              But now, when Northern treachery attempts our rights to mar

              We hoist on high the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.
              Hurrah! Hurrah! 

              For Southern rights, hurrah!

              Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

              Even today, the memory of that humiliation, heaped on those black kids as their welcome to equality in school, turns my stomach. But you keep singing it, brother!

              Honest historians finally went to work and tore the Lost Cause to bits with good history. It is taking far longer than I ever expected, but in time Lost Causers like Millennial Lawyer will disappear likewise.

              It is dismaying still to be dealing with it. Think of it. It is becoming evident—as the World War II generation dies out—that the enduring shadow of that long-ago Civil War will soon eclipse memories of even that gigantic and more recent conflict, just as that same Civil War shadow long since eclipsed memories of the first World War. Memories of those other great wars slide into the past on the current of history. But the Civil War stays always sharply in view, as if it were grounded in mid-stream, with history’s current flowing around it. The Civil War is always yesterday. What can account for such durable darkness? Undying racial hatred accounts for it.

  3. You can never have too much Franklin. But I doubt this crowd is going to be enthused after they discover his pragmatic skepticism about rights.

    By the way, one reason Franklin has not been as much in the forefront of the national memory is a surprising one. His papers were largely held in private hands until the mid-20th century, when a large portion of them ended up at Yale. It is a gigantic trove, and the process of curating them has been time-consuming, and is only now coming to a conclusion. Scholars will be serving up a great deal of new insight from the Franklin papers for decades to come.

    1. Hypothesis: Franklin used to be more popular due to his autobiography and its pulling-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps narrative, which the sophisticated now deride as dangerously naive.

Please to post comments

Border wall

Federal Judge Dismisses House of Representatives Border Wall Lawsuit for Lack of Standing

The decision does not reach the merits of President Trump's attempt to divert military funds to build his border wall.

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Earlier today, federal district Judge Trevor McFadden issued a ruling dismissing a lawsuit filed by the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives challenging President Donald Trump's attempt to divert defense funds to build his border wall. The decision does not reach the merits of the dispute, and therefore does not even attempt to resolve the issue of whether Trump's actions are legal. Instead, Judge McFadden concluded that the House lacked "standing" to bring the case in the first place. While the ruling addresses an important legal issue, I believe it will not have much effect on the ultimate fate of the litigation over Trump's wall spending. Even if the House is knocked out of the game on procedural grounds, other lawsuits against the administration can still proceed.

Supreme Court precedent holds that a plaintiff must have standing to bring a case in federal court. In order to meet that burden, it must prove that it has 1) suffered an "injury in fact" that is "concrete" and "particularized, 2) that there is a causal link between the injury and the defendant's supposedly illegal conduct, and 3) that the injury can be redressed by a judicial ruling. Judge McFadden concludes that the House suit failed on the first criterion: the House did not suffer an injury in fact.

The House claimed that Trump's illegal divergence of federal funds to the border wall inflicts an "institutional injury" on Congress by undermining its control over federal spending through the power of the purse. Judge McFadden concludes that "an alleged injury to the Appropriations power" is not enough to confer standing. Otherwise, Congress could bring lawsuits in a wide range of cases where presidents spend money in ways congressional leaders claim were not properly authorized.  Moreover, he contends that judicial resolution of disputes between the different branches of government should be a "last resort." Here, the House has many other ways to assert its interests against the president:

[T]the House retains the institutional tools necessary to remedy any harm caused to this power by the Administration's actions. Its Members can, with a two-thirds majority, override the President's veto of the resolution voiding the National Emergency Declaration. They did not. It can amend appropriations laws to expressly restrict the transfer or spending of funds for a border wall under Sections 284 and 2808. Indeed, it appears to be doing so…. And Congress "may always exercise its power to expand recoveries" for any private parties harmed by the Administration's actions.

More still, the House can hold hearings on the Administration's spending decisions. As it has recently shown, the House is more than capable of investigating conduct by the Executive…

The availability of these institutional remedies shows that there is no "complete nullification" of the House's power.

I think Judge McFadden is right to consider this issue a "close question." As he explains, Supreme Court precedent issue of congressional standing—like many parts of standing doctrine—is far from a model of clarity. But I still think he got the question wrong.

A diminution of congressional power over spending strikes me as a compelling example of a "concrete" and "particularized" injury. It is concrete because it literally infringes on Congress' control over material resources (in this case billions of dollars in federal spending). It is particularized because the power in question is unique to Congress. No other organization can claim similar authority over the federal budget.

It is true that the House has other  potential tools to use in its conflict with the president. But they all involve passing additional legislation, which is subject to presidential veto. Part of the point of giving Congress control over spending is that the burden of inertia supports them. If they choose not to allocate money for purposes the White House wants, that decision cannot be reversed unless and until they change their minds. Congress can protect its power simply by doing nothing. By contrast, once the president uses funds for unauthorized purposes, Congress cannot prevent it other than by passing new legislation—legislation that the president has enormous leverage over.

I am also skeptical about Judge McFadden's attempt to distinguish this case from his own court's 2015 ruling in House of Representatives v. Burwell, where the court ruled that the then-GOP controlled House had standing to sue the Obama administration for illegally spending federal funds on Affordable Care Act health insurance subsidies. Judge McFadden claims that Burwell is too much of a "slender reed" to justify granting the House standing in this case. But the two seem very similar to me. Burwell claimed that standing is permissible in cases that involved "constitutional" violation (the money in question had never been appropriated at all), as opposed to a statutory violation (the statutes at issue do not authorize the spending in question). But, as McFadden himself recognizes the distinction between statutory and constitutional issues here is far from clear. If the wall spending is not authorized by any statute, then Trump's diversion of the money violates the Constitution by infringing on Congress' power of the purse.

Because Burwell was a district court decision, it is not a binding precedent that future courts must follow (the same goes for Judge McFadden's ruling). But if Burwell was correctly decided (as I believe it was), than Judge McFadden is wrong.

There is some irony in the fact that a Democratic House is today relying on the same sort of argument to oppose a GOP administration that the Republican House in 2015 used to sue a Democratic one. On this, as on many other legal issues, where the parties stand depends more on political convenience than principle. Along with "fair weather federalism," we also have "fair weather separation of powers"

In my view, the right way to deal with the vagaries of standing doctrine is to get rid of it entirely (at least as a constitutional rule), because it is nowhere actually mandated by the Constitution. Unless and until the Supreme Court does that, we are going to have dubious hair-splitting decisions like Judge McFadden's ruling.

Be that as it may, his decision is unlikely to have much effect on the litigation over Trump's wall spending. As McFadden notes, there are numerous other ongoing lawsuits challenging the legality of Trump's wall spending. Many of them have been brought by local governments, charitable organizations, and landowners that have property and other  interests in the area where the wall would be built. They clearly are likely to suffer "injury" from the wall project (even in the narrow sense of the word), and many of them are likely to get their cases decided on the merits, even if Judge McFadden's ruling stands.

Indeed, there has already been one such ruling, issued by a district court in California just a few days ago. It went against the administration. There will likely be more such decisions soon enough.

If this decision survives on appeal, its real significance will not be in the effect it has on the  wall litigation, but in the precedent it sets for future congressional suits  against the president for undermining the separation of powers. Some of them may involve issues where there are no private parties available to take up the slack. Republicans who applaud this ruling may not be happy when a Democratic president exploits it in the future.

 

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75 responses to “Federal Judge Dismisses House of Representatives Border Wall Lawsuit for Lack of Standing

  1. “Otherwise, Congress could bring lawsuits in a wide range of cases where presidents spend money in ways congressional leaders claim were not properly authorized.”

    This is bad because we don’t want the Executive Branch to be held to spending only what Congress authorizes?

    1. Except if the purpose of demanding standng is to stop the hoi polloi from filing innumerable court cases, clogging the system, this cannot be said of Congress, who is the opposite of that and unique in that they created the law being prospectively abused.

      The judge is just speculating.

      1. I accidentally clicked “flag” on the comment above. Please ignore it.

    2. That was my reaction. I’m not actually seeing the problem there.

      1. It’s a problem because it’s being applied to Trump and no one else.

        1. “It’s a problem because it’s being applied to Trump and no one else.”

          Maybe because Trump’s the only one who’s currently President, and no one else is?

      2. To expand on that, it was never applied in the past, and won’t be applied in the future to Democrat Party presidents. It’s intended to rein in Trump solely because he’s an “illegitimate President.”

        1. You mean, other than when it was applied to Obama in _Burwell_?

        2. So, the problem is the instances where it isn’t applied, not the ones where it is.

  2. I don’t think the House had standing in either Burrell or here.

    The Judiciary is merely a coequal branch of government. It cannot directly referree disputes between coequal branches.

    So long as no-one else is affected, it’s no business of the Judiciary’s if Congress’ laws are flouted.

    1. “It cannot directly referree disputes between coequal branches.”

      It absolutely can. It would prefer not to.
      Example… the courts had to decide whether Nixon had to turn over tapes to Congress, or not.

  3. I think the standing issue can be differentiated from Burwell without splitting too many hairs. In Burrell the funds had never been appropriated. Trump is spending funds that had been appropriated and repurposed according to the National Emergencies Act of 1976. One is a constitutional transgression, the other if anything is a dispute about it being a lot easier for congress to pass a statute ceding power than it is for them to claw back the power down the road.

    In some ways it would be best to let congress flex its undoubted institutional power to rectify both cases, however it’s needs to be united to do so. But we don’t want to make every dispute between congress and the president an impeachment fest.

    But really if the Senate ever gets to 2/3 favoring impeachment, the best solution would be for congress to gut the imperial presidency using its veto proof majority rather than impeach over political disagreements.

    1. I think the standing issue can be differentiated from Burwell without splitting too many hairs. In Burrell the funds had never been appropriated. Trump is spending funds that had been appropriated and repurposed according to the National Emergencies Act of 1976.

      The court got it wrong; there’s no distinction been spending money that hasn’t been appropriated and spending money that hasn’t been appropriated for the purpose for which it was spent.

      The claim that the emergencies act allows the money to be repurposed is a merits argument, not a standing argument.

      1. Agreed. I happen to think they should lose it on the merits, (Congress was stupid enough to pass the National Emergencies act, now they have to live with it until it’s repealed.) but the standing argument here is bogus.

    2. The veto override to rein in the executive, which would require 2/3 of both houses rather than just the Senate, should in theory be more achievable with bipartisan support than impeachment since it is a narrower solution to a problem that both parties in Congress should acknowledge. In reality though I doubt it would be more achievable just because the triggering event is the wall: It would be campaigned against as an attack against Trump’s signature policy rather than an attempt to rebalance government power, and congressional Republicans will be as wary of attacking the President’s wall as they would be of attacking the President.

      1. The basic problem here for the Congressional Republicans is that Trump is much more in line with what the Republican voting base want, than they are. They don’t dare be seen as deliberately opposing him, and they certainly can’t vote to impeach him for something they basically ran on themselves.

        That’s the origin of most of the opposition Trump has seen from the GOP establishment: They’ve been running a bait and switch on their base for a couple generations now, and Trump actually proposed to deliver what was promised.

        1. “The basic problem here for the Congressional Republicans is that Trump is much more in line with what the Republican voting base want, than they are.”

          The basic problem for Congressional Republicans is that they are assigned the task of creating legislation that works, whereas the President just has to promise people what they want to hear. We’re gonna build a wall (wait, that means higher taxes to pay for it, so, um, you won’t have to pay for it, Mexico will pay for it! Yeah, that’s how we’ll do it!)
          This is a recurring theme. We’re gonna repeal ACA and replace it with something better. Got an idea for something better? No, why, is that a problem?

          The modern Republican party is an alliance between social conservatives and moderate businessmen. The social conservatives want to be allowed to be openly bigoted again, instead of being shamed for it, and the moderate businessmen want relief from regulation and taxes that keep them from making as much money as they think they could be making. The problem is, the two don’t agree about much of anything except being opposed to anything the Democrats want to do… as a result, the last decade of Republican “ideas” have been largely confined to “whatever they did or said, we’re against it”.

          Even Trump spends most of his time whining about Democrats keeping him from doing whatever it is he thinks his audience wants him to do… whether or not Democrats are actually keeping him from doing it, whatever it is.

          1. I think you’re making some leaps of logic there. While it is theoretically Congress’ job to create legislation that works, I’ve seen little evidence of them actually doing that for, well, pretty much all of my adult life. And that has been a bi-partisan problem. You say that “the President just has to promise people what they want to hear.” I would lay that same charge at the feet of just about every Senator and Representative in Congress.

            1. “I think you’re making some leaps of logic there. While it is theoretically Congress’ job to create legislation that works, I’ve seen little evidence of them actually doing that for, well, pretty much all of my adult life.”

              It is Congress’ job to write laws that work, not to write laws that work the way you wish they did.

              ” You say that ‘the President just has to promise people what they want to hear.'”

              Specifically, I’m claiming that, at present, the fans of the President are happy if he says what they think they want to hear, and don’t seem to care if he delivers anything like what he promised, or even anything at all.
              It’s one thing to have a politician who lies. It is another thing to have an electorate that is satisfied with nothing but lies, with nothing done to back them up.

              1. We’re happy if he looks like he’s trying to fulfill his campaign promises. We’d be happier if Congress carried their end of the load. But we’re perfectly aware that he is NOT, in fact, a dictator, and thus needs cooperation from the other branches to do it.

          2. Say all you want about the wall, but if we diverted our spending to Israel for a year, we could build it in one year swift.

          3. That’s a gross oversimplification for partisan purposes. Mexico is literally paying for the wall right now and they’re going to pay more with each passing day so long as Trump remains in office. You can’t say otherwise unless you’re going to deny the reality that we’re damaging their trade and pressuring them to commit more resources (their own resources, not tariffs paid by US citizens). Also, repealing ACA isn’t a “do nothing” solution. The solution is a return to free markets and if that needs to be articulated and explained on Reason of all places, god help us.

            1. “That’s a gross oversimplification for partisan purposes. Mexico is literally paying for the wall right now and they’re going to pay more with each passing day so long as Trump remains in office.”

              Oh, honey.

            2. Mexico is literally paying for the wall right now and they’re going to pay more with each passing day so long as Trump remains in office.

              Do you know who gets taxed in a tariff, awildseaking?

              1. “You can’t say otherwise unless you’re going to deny the reality that we’re damaging their trade and pressuring them to commit more resources (their own resources, not tariffs paid by US citizens).”

                Do you know how to read?

                1. Making a claim that something is ‘reality’ does not actually make it so.

                  The problem we have with your words isn’t their syntax, it’s the lack of intellect behind them.

                  1. Speaking of lack of intellect, are you actually suggesting that tariffs do not increase prices and thus do not actually harm Chinese exporters? Because that’s reality, not because of sophistry as you so claim, but because of the fundamental basics of supply and demand.

                2. The part in italics above is a quote from you. That’s the part where you don’t know how tariffs work.

                  That earlier you appeared to understand, and then later forgot or something, doesn’t make you look better.

                  1. That’s exactly how tariffs work. They damage foreign producers by reducing their comparative advantage and force the nation in question to negotiate with us in order to remove said tariffs. Trump specifically stated that we’re trying to make Mexico contribute more to border security and I don’t see us sending them any checks to patrol the borders or stop the caravans.

        2. “The basic problem here for the Congressional Republicans is that Trump is much more in line with what the Republican voting base want, than they are. ”

          If true, this means Republicans deserve another half-century or more of having their political preferences rejected by the people who shape American progress.

      2. Pretty much every political position can be spun to look like something else, sometimes even something else it really isn’t.

        Saying “you can’t do X because the other guys will frame it as Y” isn’t really an answer, unless cowardice is your primary personality trait.
        We got mired in Vietnam because Johnson didn’t want to be labeled “soft on Communism”, not because the US actually has a significant interest in what happens in the region.

  4. The notion of no particularized interest seems belied by the opinion itself, when the judge cites what congress, not the house, could do in response. Suggesting a need for joint action by congress to vindicate a power particular to the house seems itself to be unconstitutional, and a powerful argument for why this case should have been decided the other way.

    The house, not congress, has the constitutionally particularized interest in originating appropriations. Much has been made of that power, at the time of the founding and ever since, as one of the principal guarantors of separation of powers.

    How can it be that the house has no cognizable interest in defending that power? When the judge asserts that to seek a remedy, the house must avail itself of procedures it can not exercise on its own, but only with the cooperation of a hostile senate, the opinion reads more like a taunt than like a considered opinion.

    I am a non-lawyer who is certain he does not understand standing. Nevertheless, I can’t see why that matters in this case, because the flaw in the decision is logical, not legal. Or is it frequently true that adverse standing decisions ignore reason to keep from court the cases judges fear deciding on the merits?

    1. “The house, not congress, has the constitutionally particularized interest in originating appropriations.”

      The House has the constitutionally particularized interest in originating taxes.

      “All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.”

  5. 1. Congress authorizes appropriations.
    2. Congress authorizes regulations on how those appropriations can be spent.
    3. President uses those appropriations and regulations to spend money in a way Congress doesn’t like (but authorized).
    4. Lawsuit?

    1. Merits argument, not standing argument.

    2. “3. President uses those appropriations and regulations to spend money in a way Congress doesn’t like (but authorized).”

      There’s a small, but very significant error in this statement. It should be
      “3. President uses those appropriations and regulations to spend money in a way Congress doesn’t like (but authorized?).”

      I think there’s an argument to be made that when the Congress authorizes the President to do things in an emergency, they do still intend an actual emergency to exist at the time. In other words, they didn’t mean “emergency” to mean “a time when the Congress won’t appropriate funds for something the President wants to do.”

      Now, the fun part will be, what other “emergencies” have the President’s staff thought up to declare if the current “emergency” gets shut down in court. Will it be “There’s flooding in Ohio. Emergency! I’m going to build the levee in Texas…”?

      1. “In other words, they didn’t mean “emergency” to mean “a time when the Congress won’t appropriate funds for something the people want to do and have been clamoring for decades about but have been denied traditional legal avenues because of traitors at all levels of government who benefit from importing illegals and stealing representation to further cement their power.””

        FTFY. Illegal immigration has been an emergency since the moment our elected officials decided it was advantageous to keep migrants in the US permanently.

        1. “Emergency” comes from the same root as “emergent”, meaning “new”, or “sudden”. So your argument that this “emergency” is older than we think is actually not a very good one.

          Emergency:
          noun, plural e·mer·gen·cies.
          1) a sudden, urgent, usually unexpected occurrence or occasion requiring immediate action.
          2) a state, especially of need for help or relief, created by some unexpected event:

          1. The problem with declaring this not an emergency, is that border crossings have been rising rapidly since late last year. The situation is, by the numbers, is objectively getting worse, fast.

            Border Patrol apprehensions, October 2011-present

            Take a look at that graph about a third of the way down. When Trump took office, illegal border crossings dropped dramatically for a short while, because illegal aliens actually do follow the news, and thought a new policy was in place. Then the crossings started growing, as that news revealed that only the President was in favor of that new policy, and the courts and Congress were going to obstruct it.

            By September of last year, border crossings were back where they’d been before Trump took office, and then they spiked. And kept spiking.

            The more people attempt our borders without our government putting effective measures in place, the more people come. It’s basically a human wave attack at this point, completely swamping our (deliberately limited!) capacity to cope.

            Potential illegal immigrants are rationally responding to the knowledge that only one branch of government wants to stop them, and it can’t by itself.

            1. This is a lot of spin.

              Apprehensions != border crossings.

              It’s basically a human wave attack at this point
              Cut out the dramatics, you just look silly.

              And Illegals likely care and know more about ICE’s latest directives than about what’s happening in Washington.

              1. https://www.npr.org/2019/05/31/728556493/are-tariffs-on-mexico-the-right-way-to-stymie-illegal-immigration

                Apprehensions are actually down compared to historical data, but the number of unique people crossing keeps increasing.

  6. Oops. Right. Too early in the morning. Thanks Brett.

    1. I, too, have problems when the blood level in my caffeine stream gets too high.

  7. When did government by litigation become a thing?

    1. Immediately after government by ignoring the law became a thing.

    2. When the courts became the super-legislature.

    3. “When did government by litigation become a thing?”

      Marbury v. Madison.

  8. The practical implications of this decision on the wall are pretty much nil: the case is still being litigated, and wall construction is still enjoined, pursuant to the California case.

    The practical implications of this decision, if it stands, on _everything else_ are pretty spectacular. Suppose Congress relents and gives Trump $25 billion for wall construction in next year’s budget. Suppose the next president decides that climate change, not unauthorized border crossings, is the biggest emergency facing the country, and decides to spend the remaining $20 billion of wall funds on building giant solar and wind generation facilities instead (and for kicks, redirects $50 billion of Pentagon funding for research into green energy). Under this ruling, what is Congress’s remedy? Passing a law saying that the President can’t do that? You need a veto-proof majority in both houses. Impeaching the President? A majority of the House, plus two-thirds of the Senate. Oh, right – “holding hearings.” Thanks, judge!

    I was only briefly a FedSoc member in law school, but I don’t recall this being the sort of thing we spent a lot of time arguing for.

    1. The answer is to elect a President who won’t veto that bill. Elections have consequences and we shouldn’t throw out good procedure just because the outcome is bad for the people, lest we become literal Communists who centrally plan everything because we think we know what’s best for others.

      1. Of course elections have consequences. That’s why Trump can’t get his wall funded: because the American people elected a Congress who didn’t support funding it. Saying “we shouldn’t throw out good procedure just because the outcome is bad for the people” as a defense for throwing out 220 years of appropriations procedure is irony that even Alanis Morissette couldn’t screw up.

        1. The problem with saying that is that they didn’t run on being opposed to funding it. He’d have gotten his wall a couple years ago if it hadn’t been for a fair number of Republicans who had lied their way into office.

          1. Since when has _that_ been the standard? If it were, then we could limit Trump’s electoral mandate to locking up Hillary Clinton and pretty much put a pin in it there. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Trump didn’t run on funding the wall, either, did he?

            1. When he was running for the job, he explicitly said Americans wouldn’t pay for the wall. Now that Americans are not paying for the wall, President Trump is complaining that they believed him.

              Here’s a responsible middle point:
              How about if the President personally funds the building of the wall on spec, and then bills Mexico for it, with enough markup to make a profit on the endeavor.

          2. “He’d have gotten his wall a couple years ago if it hadn’t been for a fair number of Republicans who had lied their way into office.”

            Perhaps they ran on supporting measures that would actually make a difference, and then supported measures that would actually make a difference.

            1. Yeah, in some hypothetical alternate universe they could have done that. In this one they just dedicated themselves to making sure the problem they’d run on solving never got solved.

        2. There’s a lot of reasons Republicans lost the House and the wall wasn’t one of them, which is why you’ll see Trump 2020 and a red wave.

          There is no appropriations procedure being thrown out here. Congress decided to allow the President to redirect funding for emergencies. If you don’t like that, vote better.

          1. “Congress decided to allow the President to redirect funding for emergencies.”

            Again, this is a merits argument, not a standing argument. (And, for what it’s worth, a merits argument that was rejected by the only court to rule on it to date.)

            1. Good thing I didn’t say it was a standing argument. IANAL and don’t really care for procedural mumbo jumbo. The fact that the argument was rejected thus far really isn’t an argument at all. Of course there will be uncertainty when a subject is addressed for the first time.

  9. I tend to agree that the power of the purse is the one clear way for Congress to remedy other actions of the executive they believe to be unconstitutional. If we accept Congressional standing at all in interbranch conflicts, disputes over illegal spending seem the most likely grounds for it.

    Now it’s possible to suggest that Congress never has standing over things like this, but that’s the only other reasonable position, imo.

  10. […] Ilya Somin has a post up at The Volokh Conspiracy on this decision, noting that it does seem to conflict with a decision from a difference Judge on the D.C. District Court: […]

  11. I think this is pretty easy to distinguish from Burwell.

    The House in Burwell didn’t have a political remedy. How should Congress unappropriate money that they never appropriated in the first place?

    The House in Mnuchin has a political remedy. They failed to succeed using that political remedy for political reasons. They acceded to the President’s authority to use this money for the wall when they passed an objection to the President’s declaration of a national emergency.

    The court is not a referee between the Executive and Legislature. Congress has power here. Their failure to exercise that power is for lack of political will, not because the President abused his power.

    If Congress had successfully overridden the President’s veto and objected to his declaration of a national emergency and the President continued to spend the money then there would be a controversy.

    1. The President takes money appropriated for A and spend it on B instead. If Congress doesn’t have a veto-proof majority in both houses, by your (and the court’s) logic, what’s to stop him?

      1. “what’s to stop him?”

        One possible answer is that President Next-in-Line might have the new Attorney General draw up charges.

        Fun Fact: The former President has no Constitutional powers of any kind.

      2. A, a person who benefits from A’s work, or a victim of B may sue the President for not following the law. This is not a decision on the merits, the Court is not saying the President was right, it is saying that the Court is not the appropriate venue for Congress to seek a remedy.

      3. Except in this case, it’s being spent on A1, which accomplishes the objectives of A, but not in a manner that the House likes.

  12. Congress may have an interest in spending creating standing for judicial intervention, a single house does not. Perhaps the Senate is happy with the “diversion”, why should the House’s view control?

    Maybe we ought to get away from government by judges? Its been bad for the country.

    1. “Congress may have an interest in spending creating standing for judicial intervention, a single house does not. Perhaps the Senate is happy with the “diversion”, why should the House’s view control? ”

      You get run into while crossing a crosswalk You want to sue the SOB that ran you over. But maybe I’m OK with the “diversion”. Why should you get a day in court?

      The aggrieved party gets to show up in court and make the case that their view should control the outcome. The other party gets to make the case that their view should control the outcome. Sometimes, interested third parties are ALSO given an opportunity to weigh in.

      If we set up a hypothetical where everything is the same (The House wants to sue, but the Senate is happy with things as they are.) Why should the Senate’s view control?
      By any chance, is the answer “because I, Bob, want the outcome the Senate wants, and not the outcome the House wants?” It seems like this might be it.

      1. A single house is not “aggrieved”, Congress as a whole [both houses] may be.

        It was wrong in Burwell too.

        The House can impeach if it feels the President is acting improperly. It may pass specific legislation too.

        It doesn’t do these things because the Seante does not agree so it runs to the courts. Its a sign of weakness.

        1. You do realize that you just inverted the entire structure of the budget process, right? It’s no longer true that spending must be authorized by laws passed by Congress and signed by the President; now the President can spend whatever money is in the budget however he pleases, but Congress can stop him if they have a veto-proof majority in both Houses.

        2. “A single house is not “aggrieved”, Congress as a whole [both houses] may be.”

          This is an assertion you choose not to support with any evidence or argument. It suits your present interests to believe this way. I suggest that if circumstances change, and you prefer a different outcome, so to will your assertion(s) on the subject change (though, I suspect, whatever your new assertion is, it ALSO won’t be backed by any evidence or argument to support it.)

  13. “the right way to deal with the vagaries of standing doctrine is to get rid of it entirely (at least as a constitutional rule), because it is nowhere actually mandated by the Constitution.”
    Once again, TDS leads to intellectual incoherence. “Whom the gods would destroy . . . .” Standing doctrine is essential to separation of powers, which was dangerously subverted by Parliament in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, but restored by the Framers. Congress is required (by the ex post facto and bill of attainder clauses, inter alia) to act prospectively and generally, the essence of legislative power. The courts are required (by the cases and controversies clause, inter alia) to act particularly and individually, the essence of judicial power. Of course there have been transgressions over the past two and a half centuries, but the principle of separation of powers, the bulwark of our liberties, is even more important than stopping Trump. (Though not to Prof. Somin, who would cut down every tree in the forest to get at the Devil, if necessary.)

  14. On the other hand, if they had planned to visit the empty space where the wall is to be, and very much looked forward to seeing it…

  15. That any judge could seriously write an opinion suggesting that the House has “remedies” in this case, in the form of “investigations” that the President sees no reason to cooperate with and new laws the President would have no reason to follow, and that the House must clearly prohibit any given use of funds it does not intend to permit, is an embarrassment for our entire system of justice. McFadden is a disgrace, working to expand presidential lawlessness without limit.

    Also, classic Trump appointment.

  16. Two things

    Trump was merely specifying that funds already approved by Congress for defense be used specifically for the border wall, a form of defense. In Burwell, if I understand it aright, the kinyun coopted fund that were NOT designated by Congress and utilised them to fix a big boo boo HE and HIS plan made. The kinyun was allocating NEW funds not previously designated other than for “defense”. And if guarding against the ingress of illegal invaders is not part of our defense,

    Whether the House have standing to sue is not the most important question to be pondering. WHICH court MUST be the one to take this matter up, as it names the President in his capacity AS president, thus, per Art 3 Sec 2 Par 2 can ONLY be taken up uponi original jurisdiction by the Supreme Court. Thisjudge SHOULD have dismissed it on that basis.

    1. Congress doesn’t approve a pot of money for defense, it appropriates money for specific functions as it directs. The Defense Approps bill is pretty big every year.

      Also, did you call Obama the kinyun? Anyhow, just because Obama did a thing doesn’t mean it’s right.

      Your last paragraph is cool stuff though; I love Federal Courts and I don’t know why. https://www.fjc.gov/history/courts/jurisdiction-original-supreme-court

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Excessive Fines Clause Applies to Corporations

So the Colorado Supreme Court held today.

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From Colo. Dep't of Labor v. Dami Hospitality, LLC:

[Constitutional g]uarantees that are "purely personal" or "limited to the protection of individuals" will not apply to corporations. The established personal guarantees include the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination and the right to privacy.

On the other hand, when a guarantee is against certain government overreach, and is a "constitutional immunit[y] appropriate to [a corporate] body," this constitutional limitation on government power can apply to protect a corporation just as it may protect a natural person.  Thus, corporations have been recognized to have First Amendment rights to free speech and Fourteenth Amendment rights to due process and equal protection of the law. Similarly, corporations are protected from unreasonable searches and seizures, cannot have their property taken without just compensation, and cannot be tried twice for the same offense.

With these cases as guideposts, in considering whether the Excessive Fines Clause applies to corporations we must evaluate both the purpose of the clause and the appropriateness of applying it to corporations.

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12 responses to “Excessive Fines Clause Applies to Corporations

  1. The question on remand is whether a $500 fine is excessive. It probably isn’t. The Colorado Supreme Court’s essential relevant holding is that if one $500 fine isn’t excessive, then 1,698 of them isn’t going to be excessive either.

    1. To Dami Hospitality, this isn’t “another matter.” This is the essential issue. And this case isn’t a victory. It’s a complete defeat.

    2. Similar to the rule on the right to trial by jury, where the judiciary just invented out of empty air a clause limiting the right to trial by jury to cases where the penalty at stake is more than a year in prison… and then said it was more than a year in prison per count, so that if you’re charged with 100 counts of whatever, you can be denied a jury trial and sent to prison for life, so long as you serve less than a year for each count.

      The judiciary are not reliably our friends when it comes to defending constitutional rights.

  2. IANAL and one thing that all these sorts of questions bring up in my mind is that they seem to stem from different viewpoints of the Constitution: are they limitations and restrictions on the government, or are they protections for people (and possibly corporation in some circumstances)?

    To me, it was clear from the beginning that the Constitution was meant as defining a limited government, and had two ways of defining those limits. First were the various Articles, saying what government could do; second were the Bill of Rights, defining what the government could not do.

    Memory says that one of the objections to an explicit Bill of Rights was that it could be warped and twisted into being a complete list of privileges and immunities, rather than just examples, and that is why the 9th and 10th amendments exist. I have a lot of sympathy for this argument, and it is partly from cases like this — treating the Bill of Rights as protections, ie immunities, instead of limitations on government. If you treat it as immunities, then asking who it applies to is a reasonable, or at least plausible, next step — does it apply to everybody, or only citizens? How about foreigners? How about businesses and other organizations?

    Whereas if you treat the Bill of Rights as just more examples of limitations on government, then the question of who is protected vanishes.

    Consider “Your property cannot be taken by the government” vs “The government cannot take property”. It’s the first interpretation which has expended the government so much and trampled on the 9th and 10 Amendments.

    1. “To me, it was clear from the beginning that the Constitution was meant as defining a limited government. . . . ”

      Not sure where you get that reading and actually I see the exact opposite.

      “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution. . . ,” kind of leaves the purpose of the government open-ended and not limited.

      And yes, the BoR purposes to restrict or limit the government in specific situations but those restrictions are not absolute.

      1. It was far more powerful than the Articles of Confederation, but it was still limited by the language which said “here is what this government can do” and “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” That very clearly says “powers not delegated”, and has just as clearly become pointless. Mooted is the legal jargon, I believe.

      2. Not sure where you get that reading and actually I see the exact opposite.

        Only Congress holds legislative authority. Congress’ legislative authority is limited to those specific powers set forth in Article 1, Section 8. No sections limit the legislative authority of the Executive or Judiciary because those branches do not have legislative authority.

        If Congress’ legislative authority is limited, then some other entity must hold the remaining (unlimited or general) authority. The 10th amendment makes it clear that this authority is reserved to the states.

  3. Thus, corporations have been recognized to have First Amendment rights to free speech

    The Citizens United decision went out of its way to explain this wasn’t some artificial “body” having free speech rights, but rather it was the right of The People, who take their rights with them wherever they go, including choosing to join a congressionally-created organization like a corporation, and that Congress may not strip those rights as a cost of entry.

    1. Rather like the amendment at question here, the 1st amendment says nothing about WHOSE freedom of speech can’t be abridged, but only says Congress can’t abridge speech. So, even apart from that perfectly valid reasoning you cite, freedom of speech abridging is just generally something Congress isn’t allowed to do.

      1. I don’t agree. It says that Congress cannot abridge the “freedom of speech” not that Congress cannot abridge “speech.” That means it is only invalid if a person or entity has that “freedom”. If they don’t have that freedom, then Congress can’t abridge it. So there needs to be a determination on who has it. (I do, however, agree that corporations have it)

  4. The argument is that corporations are not people and therefore do not have rights.

    If that logic is correct, then the government can seize your property without due process, without just compensation,etc. – even though the corporation is owed by a person.

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Will an end to social media trust mean an end to end-to-end encryption?

Episode 266 of the Cyberlaw Podcast

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If you've lost the Germans on privacy, you've lost Europe, and maybe the world. That's the lesson that emerges from my conversation with David Kris and Paul Rosenzweig about the latest declaration that the German interior minister wants to force messaging apps to decrypt chats. This comes at the same time that industry and civil society groups are claiming that GCHQ's "ghost proposal" for breaking end-to-end encryption should be rejected. The paper, signed by all the social media giants, says that GCHQ's proposal will erode the trust that users place in Silicon Valley. I suggest that maybe that particular argument is well past its sell-by date.

Speaking of trust, Paul outlines the latest tit-for-tat in the Silicon Curtain coming down between the US and China, as that country announces plans to publish an "unreliable entities" list of US companies. I note that the same spirit seems to be animating the announcement that China and Russia are transitioning their militaries from Microsoft Windows to other operating systems. Talk about a bonanza for the NSA: Just the coding errors alone will sustain its hackers for a generation – even in the unlikely event that the Chinese and Russians resist the temptation to seed the system with backdoors aimed at their erstwhile partners.

Maury Shenk highlights the latest German effort to regulate "broadcasting" of content on the Internet, which the German authority says will mandate transparency and diversity. I think it's transparently about shoring up the German establishment, a view hardly contradicted by the ham-handed way CDU leader Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer responded to the CDU's drubbing in the EU elections. The losses were widely attributed to YouTube influencers who urged young voters to reject the main parties. The solution, AKK suggested, was more regulation of YouTube influencers. Ja, natürlich.

David brings us up to date on Iran's latest effort to engage in social media manipulation and Facebook's response.

Alicia Loh parses a DC Circuit ruling that all the White House has to do to comply with laws on keeping records of official communications is send out a memo. That obligation was satisfied, the court ruled, by a memo telling White House staff who use "vanishing" messaging apps to take screenshots of any official communications and preserve the messages. Alicia is practically the only member of our panel who even knows how to take a screenshot on a phone, which suggests that White House staff compliance might be, well, underwhelming.

Maury gives us a quick update on US states imitating GDPR. Short version: Watch California and then New York.

And in a lightning round, I am struck by the sight of an FTC commissioner begging the Ninth Circuit not to uphold the FTC's position in the Qualcomm case on appeal. Maury and I note the growing demand in Silicon Valley companies for mass contract labor spurred by the need to train AI. And Paul and I speculate on the probability of antitrust cases against Google and Amazon. It's been a long cold Chicago winter for antitrust plaintiffs, but a change in the climate may be coming.

Download the 266th Episode (mp3).

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Climate Change

Confessions of a Former Climate Skeptic

Jerry Taylor on why he now considers climate change a serious problem.

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Jerry Taylor used to be one of the foremost libertarian critics of regulatory efforts to forestall climate change. No longer. Now, as head of the Niskanen Center, he advocates for a carbon tax and urges center-right folks to take climate change more seriously.

What caused the conversion? Writing in the Bulwark, Taylor explains why one does not have to be a climate alarmist to think that climate change is a serious problem that merits a serious policy response. Writes Taylor:

The big debate in climate science right now isn't whether or not climate change is occurring—or whether human activity is the main cause. The big debate is about scale: How much change will there be, over how long a time frame, and how large (or small) will be the follow-on effects.

As a consequence, we have to think about climate change as a risk-management problem, and take seriously that our "best guess" about prospective climate changes might be wrong, and account for potential downside risks, including the possibility that some risks are greater than others. This leads Taylor to the following conclusion:

If we think about climate risks in the same fashion we think about risks in other contexts, we should most certainly hedge—and hedge aggressively—by removing fossil fuels from the economy as quickly as possible. . . .

As Taylor explains, this is a consequence of taking risk and uncertainty seriously, and need not be based upon the assumption that particularly apocalyptic scenarios are certain or even likely. Cost-effective mitigation measures make sense insofar as they provide protection against downside risks. This approach doesn't justify every potential climate policy proposal, but it is more than sufficient to overcome the "do nothing" approach favored by most Republican officeholders and conservative policy mavens.

For my part (as a fellow recovered climate policy skeptic) I have also argued that a principled commitment to property rights further counsels in favor of taking climate change seriously—again without any need to embrace apocalyptic visions of a hothouse cataclysm. While there may be good arguments against many of the policy proposals forwarded in DC, including the ill-fated Waxman-Markey climate bill and the Clean Power Plan—the alternative to these policies should not be doing nothing at all.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

148 responses to “Confessions of a Former Climate Skeptic

  1. If the globalists pushing this actually cared about the climate and truly believed the theories as presented, we’d have gone balls to the wall nuclear decades ago instead of using this as an excuse to seize and centralize government power.

    1. I have many many reasons for doubting the sincerity and even the truthiness of climate warming alarmists; this is the number one.

      If I really did believe that absent a drastic reduction in carbon use/emission, the climate was on the verge of tipping over to a runaway Venus climate, I would leave no stone unturned in pushing for nuclear power. Anyone with half a brain can see that solar and wind power are diversions: slow, expensive, and limited in ways nuclear never will be.

      I would risk shoddy construction killing millions, because that pales in comparison to the certainty of killing billions (ie, everybody).

      In short, anyone claiming global warming is in crisis who does not advocate nuclear power first, last, and in between, is a charlatan who doesn’t believe in his own cause.

      And even shorter, there are so few who actually do advocate nuclear power that I do not believe climate warming is in the top 1000 things to worry about.

    2. Don’t know about “globalists” but climate scientists do support nuclear. Even the IPCC has called for more nuclear.

      1. And yet…when it comes to actual policy choices from supposed supporters of green energy, Nuclear is always given the short straw and ignored.

        1. Although I don’t support the Green New Deal, the current version doesn’t nix nuclear.

          1. NToJ: “the current version doesn’t nix nuclear.”

            But the FAQ that was first posted on, and then removed from, Rep. Ocasio-Cortez’s office page, does explicitly talk about shutting down all the nukes. They’re just not sure they can accomplish that in the first ten-year plan: “It’s unclear if we will be able to decommission every nuclear plant within 10 years, but the plan is to transition off of nuclear and all fossil fuels as soon as possible.”

            See here

          2. It’s not just the new Green Deal. It’s the policy choices made by every supposed “Green” or “Global warming’s important” government. From Obama’s politics shutting down Yucca Mountain (Because, yes, a stable long term waste facility for nuclear power waste is an important consideration for supporting nuclear power) to Germany’s shutting down all its current nuclear power plants.

            There’s a vague promise of “yeah…maybe..nuclear” and then there are the actual actions made.

            1. Possibly, that is because the actual engineering to make nuclear economically competitive and safe is slow in arriving. As the price of renewables continues to plunge, it gets harder and harder for engineering advances in nuclear to stay realistic. A nuke plant is a very long term capital investment. It has to look justifiable against foreseeable competitors many decades into the future. Presently declining renewables prices complicate that analysis.

              In general, the pro-nuclear comments on this thread seem to assume anti-nuclear adversaries are mindlessly ideological. That kind of advocacy would not prove durable if nuclear advocates had solved the long-term reliability and economic-return problems of nuclear.

              1. You have that exactly backwards. By every objective measure, nuclear is already economically competitive and more safe than just about every alternative. The problem is that humans are bad at evaluating risk so nuclear is perceived as more risky than it objectively is.

                The price of renewables, on the other hand, has notably failed to plunge and remains well above any competitive measure based on actual output. No one is yet installing renewables at scale for purely economic reasons.

                1. Rossami, at what pace has the price of renewables been declining? At what pace has the cost of nuclear been declining (or not)? Extrapolate those curves for a few decades to discover the market problem nuclear proponents now confront. Far from justifying new nuclear plants, the future competitive picture those curves suggest for renewables is now being used by power companies to justify scheduling early closures of existing nuclear plants.

                  That, by the way, is all going on without yet considering the continuing cost of managing and storing nuclear waste—a problem which power companies are currently doing what they can to distance themselves from long-term, undoubtedly with an eye to eventually dumping that cost on the public as an externality.

                  1. Stephen,

                    It’s beginning to sound like you don’t fully support nuclear power. That, despite nuclear power being the only source that has been proven to be able to effectively replace fossil fuel generated electricity in a large country (France), you don’t support expanding nuclear power use.

                    Is that a fair statement, that you don’t support expanding nuclear power use?

                    1. Not fair, as a general thing. If nuclear power were safe, secure, economical, and free of its long-term waste problems, I would support it. But those are imposing “ifs.”

                      As a matter of present knowledge and practice, I am at least a skeptic, and closer to an opponent. I believe today’s nuclear power plants are safe within reason, not secure, likely uneconomical, and plagued by unsolved waste problems. I doubt some of those problems—the security problem especially—can be solved without making nuclear power uneconomical, if it is not already so for other reasons.

                      And even on the safety side, I base my favorable judgment on the apparently successful public experience with the technology. But to do that, I have to suppress personal knowledge of the daunting quality control problem that constructing a nuclear plant presents—at least with regard to the technologies used to build the plants now in service.

                      During the time that many of those plants were constructed, I worked as a steel fabricator, including extensive work with stainless steel and pressure vessels, albeit never on projects stressed to the pressure levels of nuclear power plants. A nuclear power plant is inherently dangerous in the way a giant wooden hotel is a dangerous fire hazard. Size and complexity multiply opportunities for something to go wrong, and anything which goes wrong can bring the whole thing down.

                      No steel construction project of that size gets completed without mistakes and corner cutting. Do you remember the movie, The China Syndrome? Part of the plot turned on faked weld x-rays. The technique for doing fakes of that sort is something instructors discussed during my welding training, before the movie came out. Students were cautioned to be on the lookout for it. It was said to be commonplace.

                      Nevertheless, in skilled, conscientious hands, welding is an excellent steel construction technique—but always too dependent on skill and happenstance (poorly controlled construction environments, particularly) to be reliable to high-pressure standards unless every critical weld passes x-ray testing after the weld is installed. However systematically x-ray testing was conducted, I never saw a worksite where testing wasn’t regarded as an aggravation, and an impediment to construction efficiency. Depending on circumstances—especially in the later stages of project construction—re-work of a failed weld test can occasion vastly disproportionate expense—resulting in a tendency to bias subjective judgments on behalf of passing a marginal weld.

                      Leaving all that aside, what about the security problem? What would be your estimate of the maximum force a determined terrorist attacker could bring to bear against a nuclear power station—and thus of the size of the force necessary for instant defensive response, 24-hours-a-day, 365-days a year? If terrorism is to be realistically taken into account, won’t the defense force necessary be at least several times larger than the maximum potential attack, just to assure adequate mobilization full-time? And that before any consideration of any objective to outnumber terrorist attackers in combat? And what about a reckoning of measures to make hot nuclear wastes secure against suicide attacks from the air? I suggest all that has been scandalously slighted, resulting in abiding insecurity, because the expense of doing it is so obviously prohibitive.

                      I am aware, of course, that nuclear power advocates tout revolutionary new technologies, said to reduce or alleviate these problems. When I research such claims, I discover apparently informed skepticism from experts in the field, who point to flaws that went unmentioned by original proponents. I am in no position to evaluate competing claims on their merits. But the long history of over-confidence, over-assurance, and downright public lying associated with the nuclear industry should make anyone cautious, so I am.

                      Thus, I sort of want to be in favor of an ideal nuclear solution to the nation’s energy problems—or even just a conscientiously workable solution—but as you can see, I am pretty far gone as a potential convert.

                    2. Ah….

                      I understand the concerns on nuclear power, and many are valid. The major issue here, is one of competing risk.

                      One one hand, you have global warming via CO2 emissions, somewhere between mild concern and potential world-ending devastation if nothing is done (depending who you’re talking to).

                      On the other hand, you have a power source (nuclear power), which could immediately alleviate much of these emissions, but as you’ve pointed out, there are concerns on safety and security, among others.

                      Now, if global warming is of world-ending devastation concern that demands that something immediately be done to alleviate carbon emissions, if it’s a WWIII type situation, then the concerns over nuclear power are overruled. Yes, they’re there, something to key an eye on, but GW is just too important to wait on other technologies to mature.

                      If, on the other hand, GW is more on the moderate concern side, then perhaps the concerns over nuclear safety and long term waste storage outweigh the GW risk. A dozen or more years of a few score or hundred natural gas powered electrical plants pumping out CO2 is fine and reasonable, while we wait for other technologies to mature and be available to take up the baseline electrical load that they can’t right now.

      2. theres SUPPORT as in making it front and center and ‘yeah whatever’ support. I’ll leave it as an exercise to the reader as to what kind the majority of the ‘proAGW will destroy the globe unless we do something drastic’ camp gives.

      3. And James Hansen, often called “the father of climate change awareness,” is an advocate of the use of nuclear power plants. In fact he has specifically said we can’t end global warming without nuclear.

        In the U.S., replacing all coal and natural gas (and a handful of oil-fired back-up) power plants with 200 (count ’em!) nuclear power plants, would get us to zero carbon electricity. Without even tearing up the grid.

        1. Nobody ever said that no climate alarmist, anywhere, takes this seriously. Just that most of the push comes from people who don’t.

    3. For me, the reason to doubt the AGW theory is that every single “solution” the left puts forward involves transferring wealth from the West to the third world.

    4. Unless someone sincerely thinks nuclear is as bad.

      I’m a big proponent of nuclear power myself, but this isn’t the inconsistency you think it is.

      And all those claiming bad faith because global warming requires large government action to solve are being pretty silly.

      1. Anybody who sincerely thinks nuclear is bad, is technologically ignorant. It’s our safest source of energy in terms of terawatt hours generated per lives lost, and it isn’t even a close thing.

        And that’s taking crazy outliers like Chernobyl into account.

        1. I agree; but ignorance isn’t bad faith.

          From the conversations I’ve had, it looks like a Cold War hangover. Generational, so I’d expect it to fade.

          1. I don’t expect it to fade; It might have started as a cold war hangover, but it’s currently being fed by Green propaganda indoctrination in all levels of our educational system. And that’s only getting worse with time.

            1. You think all levels of our education system are teaching that nuclear power is bad?

              Where do you think I learned that it was good?

              1. I think that you probably didn’t just graduate from high school… I did say “currently”, and that the problem is getting worse with time.

        2. Though said technological ignorance has been somewhat self-fulfilling, as we’ve not put out minds to solving the waste problem sufficiently.
          You think race and class cause NIMBY problems…

  2. Ok, let’s subsidize nuclear energy, ban private aviation, tax overseas tourism and impose tariffs on all products coming in by plane or from farther than 3000 miles away.

  3. Aren’t the solution to all the worlds problems just give the socialists more tax money and everything will be fine? I mean Kalipornia is going to be our first socialist utopia once the state requires 100% “green power” and bans any transmission lines across the state line. Hope it helps with the infectious disease outbreaks, having the most po’ people by percentage and people defecating in the streets, sidewalks and alleyways.

    1. Kalipornia
      po’ people

      Serious argumentation here.

  4. 1. A carbon tax is a miserable idea, on multiple levels.
    a. It encourages “offshoring” of carbon-intensive industries, which has the net effect of raising carbon emissions. Now the production is still going, and adds the carbon emissions of being needed to be shipped back to the original source.
    b. It is, in effect, a massive regressive tax on the people
    c. Offers to make it “revenue neutral” rarely occur. And they do, inevitably are phased out, and the carbon tax just acts as another source of revenue for the state…not a policy measure.
    d. It doesn’t truly address the massive industrialization occurring in China (and soon, India), which will massively eclipse first world emissions. Asking China and India to sabotage their economies by having a carbon tax is…naive.

    True concerns over carbon emissions need to take the form of technological advancements and reduced costs for alternative and new energy sources. If green energy is cheaper than carbon-based energy, everyone will take it up. As long as carbon-based fuels are cheaper, it encourages “cheating” in order to provide a benefit for one’s own economy (while everyone else is left with more expensive choices). And without a real enforcement mechanism…cheating is inevitable.

  5. I wish Professor Adler had included the scientific information that lead to the conversion of Mr. Taylor. As usual, it is just assumed that the science is convincingly true.

    1. Taylor’s arguing from the “Risk management” standpoint that “It could be true that climate change would be very very bad, so we should hedge against it by limiting carbon emissions”

      There are a few issues though.
      1. The poor policy choice of a carbon tax, which I allude to above
      2. Mis-analysis of the actual risk
      3. Lack of analysis of the risk of limiting carbon emissions, and the resulting economic damage.

    2. You could find some of it by following the links, but here’s a decent summary:
      https://niskanencenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/NISKANEN-CLIMATE-PRIMER-2017-03-13.pdf

      1. The bibliography of the Niskansen Center Primer shows that it has some VERY serious problems with cherry picking the science. It completely ignores every single paper which contradicts or falsifies its contention. Would you trust the outcome of a court case in which the judge only listened to the plaintiff and didn’t even allow the defense counsel to rise from his seat, much less make arguments, cross-examine witnesses or present any evidence?

  6. Let’s assume that everyone in the US commits suicide tomorrow.
    How will that change the outcome?
    China and India together are over 2 billion people. Their CO2 output (huge and growing substantially every year) make ours a rounding error pretty soon.

    1. Wow things must be pretty desperate if your argument is ‘everyone else is bad; lets not try’

      1. You must be either an idiot or a demagogue to use the
        “We must do something; this is something; therefore, we must do this” argument.

        1. Except I’m not. Your objection would make sense if you and I were speaking against a particular policy.

          But you’re speaking about any action at all.

          If you’re going to support the null proposition, you’re going to need a better argument than ‘it’s all over so screw it.’

          1. No, the argument “isn’t it’s all over, so screw it”.
            The argument is the other side’s argument is moronic because it’s clearly not about what the temperature is, but, instead, who has wealth and power, and so not worth respecting.

            1. This: China and India together are over 2 billion people. Their CO2 output (huge and growing substantially every year) make ours a rounding error pretty soon.

              Is not an argument against the sincerity of those who want to do something in the country in which they live.

              It looks more like a clumsy appeal to lazy nihilism to me.

              I remember locking horns with you in like 2015. You never did this lame name-calling stuff that’s peppering your comments these days. When did you change?

  7. “Climate sceptic” or “warming alarmist” are useless labels that deflect from the rational discussion that needs to be held. What can sensibly be done to reduce global warming or climate change or whatever you call it? Models show that even if the US stops emitting carbon, the world will still go to hell in a hotpot. So, begin there. What rational and global policies can be effectively instituted to stop human carbon emissions? What — none, you say? Too bad, but that’s what I thought.

    1. Very much like reducing mass shootings. Liberals admit that their “reasonable restrictions” won’t stop them, but “That’s no reason not to have common sense gun safety laws!”

      We all identify a problem, but there’s no real way to fix it.

    2. Wait, why START with the models that predict the planet going to hell? Why not start with the models that, when run based on measurements up to 20 years ago, accurately predicted today’s measurements? Those models show quite modest warming, hopefully enough to keep us in the current interglacial period we are now.

      Then, once you predict each likely outcome weighted by probability you can perform risk mitigation.

      The Niskanen Centers summary presupposes that warming is our largest risk, even though far more people die from cold than from heat. If we really take a risk management approach, the riskiest plausible outcome is the return of the glaciers, not a return of the climate of the Cenozoic.

  8. The entire basis of the “science” of the AGW warming threat is the Greenhouse Gas Hypothesis pioneered by Svante Arrhenius. But that hypothesis has NEVER been empirically validated and is fundamentally at odds with basic thermodynamics, which (unlike the Greenhouse Gas Hypothesis) DOES accurately predict surface temperatures of planets (including Venus) having an atmosphere with surface pressure greater than 10kPa (about 1/10th the atmospheric pressure at Earth’s surface). Indeed, even James Hansen’s work on the so-called “runaway greenhouse effect” on Venus completely ignores the fact that the surface pressure on Venus is 9,200kPa, or 92 times the pressure on the Earth’s surface, and STILL lacks any rigorous explanation of the surface temperature. Basic thermodynamics, considering adiabatic compression, convection, and the difference between Earth and Venus in solar insolation, completely explains both the surface temperature of Venus AND the temperature on Venus at an altitude with 1 atm of pressure and can accurately predict both temperatures without regard to greenhouse gases. A theory that lacks any predictive ability really should not be taken too seriously, certainly not seriously enough to completely upend our entire economy.

    http://article.esjournal.org/pdf/10.11648.j.earth.20180703.13.pdf

    1. Basic thermodynamics, considering adiabatic compression, convection, and the difference between Earth and Venus in solar insolation, completely explains…

      You have no idea what you’re talking about.

      1. Sadly, I must agree.

        The greenhouse effect is proven. It’s just that it’s extension to dangerous warming is dependent on tremendously complex interactions which aren’t proven, only posited in models.

        CO2 warms the planet a tiny bit more, which causes more water to evaporate, and H2O is a much more powerful greenhouse gas, so the additional evaporation causes even more warming, which causes even more heating.

        The assumption here is that there are positive feedbacks which put the planet right on the bare edge of thermal runaway.

        But we know there are all sorts of positive AND negative feedbacks, (For instance, clouds at one altitude increase warming, at another altitude reduce it.) and the whole mess is far too complex to be accurately modeled even if we had an exhaustive list of them.

        So the model is really more of an exercise in curve fitting with excess variables, rather than a simulation of known physics. And there IS that pesky fact that almost all the models have shown much more warming than we’ve actually experienced, which suggests there’s some bias in their design.

        I fall on the side of the line that say, so long as more people are dying of too much cold than too much heat, you’re going to have a hard time convincing me the thermostat is set too high.

        1. I don’t pretend to be enough of an expert to know about the feedback effects. But thermodynamics? I know thermodynamics. And that was just buzz-wordy BS.

          I’m unconvinced by your appeal to too many degrees of freedom. It’s a problem I have with string theory, but here it’s a determined but complex system. Neither you now I have the expertise to evaluate whether the science is at a predictive point yet.
          Which is why consensus is a useful heuristic when you yourself can’t know, and so am very much on board the global warming bandwagon to the point of wanting a carbon tax.

          1. So you would have burned the witches in Salem, then…based on the heuristic situation.

            1. And you wouldn’t have?

              Don’t pretend to be some grand-high rationalist who would have risen above his time.

          2. Oh, come on, I’m an engineer, I know thermodynamics, too. That wasn’t wordy BS, it was just the truth: The system is too complicated to simulate from first principles, so they create models with a whole bunch of free parameters, and try to fit the parameters to the data. Literally an exercise in curve fitting in multiple dimensions.

            And, with the retroactive alteration of temperature records, not even fitting to real data.

            Sometimes people board the bandwagon because the experts are persuasive, and sometimes they board it because that’s where the money and your career not being destroyed is.

            Again, my bottom line is, more people die from excess cold than excess heat. Until that changes, you’re going to have trouble convincing me the planet is too warm.

            1. I want to be clear: the wordy BS wasn’t your comment, which was clear albeit IMO fallacious. The BS was DjDD’s positive statement ‘that hypothesis has NEVER been empirically validated and is fundamentally at odds with basic thermodynamics

              Similarly, Basic thermodynamics, considering adiabatic compression, convection, and the difference between Earth and Venus in solar insolation, completely explains both the surface temperature of Venus AND the temperature on Venus at an altitude with 1 atm of pressure and can accurately predict both temperatures without regard to greenhouse gases. THAT is thermodynamic technobable. Thermo is agnostic about greenhouse effects and the like; saying Thermo explains a temperature differential a temperature doesn’t exclude greenhouse effects.

              Your appeal to ‘too many degrees of freedom’ continues to be an appeal that a legit general issue is for sure what is happening based on your…feeling? Maybe based on some anecdotes?

              In this very comment you evince an understanding of science that means you have to know how dumb your bottom line is as a metric.

              1. My point here is that the modelers make assumptions about what is going on, design models with those mechanisms in them, then adjust numerous parameters in the models to optimize the models’ fit to the available past data.

                If they’re wrong about the underlying mechanisms, or miss some significant variable that’s actually driving things, the model still optimizes to the data, but fails to be predictive in the future when the variable they missed stops being correlated to the variable they based their model on.

                This can happen because the models ARE exercises in curve fitting, not just tour de force exercises in simulating basic physics. There are too many relevant phenomena involved that aren’t understood yet, such as the dynamics of cloud formation, or plant responses to CO2. So, unavoidable free parameters, lots of them.

                Now, am I ultimately skeptical about the exercise? No, eventually they’ll get it right. But the test of a model is prediction. You have to predict the future, not the past. If they’ve finally gotten it right today, we won’t know that for 2, 3 decades.

                So, in the meantime we’re being asked to make expensive choices based on unproven models, where the previous models were, frankly, lousy. The demand does not impress me.

                1. Yeah, but all you’re doing is attacking modeling as useful science generally. Which has loads of conterexamples of models advancing science even in the face of incomplete data.

                  Science has ever been an art of best guessing. And it has nevertheless been great. Am I super-duper sure it’s got it right this time? I am not. But all we can try is our best; and my belief is way above ‘more likely than not.’

                  And policy paralysis in the face of incomplete data has never been a good rout to go.

                  So lets get moving.

                  1. Modeling is highly useful, what I’m attacking is relying on models that haven’t been demonstrated to be predictive yet. (You can NOT declare a model predictive based on it’s agreeing with the data you used to construct it, you have to wait on new data.)

                    Policy paralysis in the face of incomplete data is, in fact, a really good idea, when you don’t even know the sign of what you should be doing, let alone the magnitude.

                    I’ll return to this point: We are currently in an ice age, and for in excess of 12K years have been enjoying a balmy interglacial period, which, not even slightly by coincidence coincides with a flourishing of human culture. Interglacial periods, rather disturbingly, don’t tend to last much longer than that.

                    We are, if anything, overdue for a return of the ice.

                    Are the climate models able to explain exactly what causes an interglacial period to end? Not that I’ve heard.

                    Let’s learn enough to be sure that all this CO2 isn’t staving off a return of the glaciers before we get rid of it, OK?

                    1. In any good policy analysis, you need to analyze the null proposal of doing nothing as well. There is no inherent bias towards doing nothing being a better policy. That doesn’t mean all somethings are created equal, but saying ‘the science isn’t sure enough yet because models are inherently uncertain’ is not support for the null proposal.

                      In the very same comment you protest ‘models that haven’t been empirically validated are useless’ and also put forth a narrative about an ice age. You contradict your own standard!

      2. OK, Sarcastro, since you are obviously so much smarter than I am, please cite me to one peer-reviewed paper which, based upon real-world empirical evidence (i.e., no reliance solely on GCM climate models, like Gavin Schmidt’s idiotic paper from 2017) which demonstrates AND quantifies the causal effect of CO2 on atmospheric temperatures. And, while you are at it, please point out the flaws in the paper cited above concerning thermal enhancement from adiabatic compression and convection.

        1. I’m not going to do your homework for you. I think the OP does some of that.

          I’m not smarter than you; I just had an extended fling with thermodynamics in my youth, and thus can spot a bamboozle in that area when I see it. (Note that Brett is aligned with me on that one point).

          Points more to how easy it is for non-experts to be fooled than anything about you or I. This is why I don’t tend to go into the more quonky debates about hocky-sticks and tree rings and the like.

  9. This is hardly any different from mainstream climate skepticism. If you read Anthony Watts or Judith Curry, this is precisely their reasoning. Yes, anyone who knows the physics knows that there will be some greenhouse warming. However, evidence shows that it will be low, and I have still not seen any evidence that shows the effects will be net negative, and certainly nothing that shows it will be catastrophic. Every last actual event that I have seen people blame climate change was an attempt to divert attention from negligent local or regional planning.

    On the contrary, actions taken to reduce CO2 are often extremely detrimental to the economy, humanity, or even the environment. Most notably, biofuel production, and arguably large scale wind and solar have net-negative effects on the environment past a fairly small fraction of the grid. Many people have had their poverty deepened through an attempt to restrict their electricity to only renewables (See the Scientific American article on “fake electricity”, as well as the World Bank denying funding for power plants for African and Indian regions).

    That is ignoring the elephant in the room. Essentially every proposal is several orders of magnitude too small to actually make a change. The Paris agreement would have made a reduction of 0.01C under the absolute most optimistic of scenarios, and would have bound Russia to nothing and China and India to less than nothing. It was still cripplingly expensive for Europe and America.

    This leads many activists to push “Population Reduction” in all it’s euphemisms. The one good thing I will say about the Green New Deal. It was the only correct order of magnitude proposal that did not include a substantial volume of genocide.

    So, no. My risk-reward analysis falls very much on the side of continuing to use fossil fuels until technology develops that can replace it in an economically sustainable manner.

    1. [The Green New Deal] was the only correct order of magnitude proposal that did not include a substantial volume of genocide.

      Don’t be so sure.

      “9. Ensure that population growth is kept under control by giving priority to education and health services for girls and women. …”

      Is a call for population control, it’s just more subtle.

      1. Do you know what genocide is?

        1. Yes, although I suspect you may have some confusion on the subject.

      2. Compared to explicit calls to deindustrialize (which would cause mass starvation), or actual demands for humanity’s extinction, that’s nothing.

    2. There is an extremely good chance that anyone claiming to “know thermodynamics” probably does not know thermodynamics very well. It is laughable. Curry and Waats are not skeptics and both acknowledge the greenhouse effect and warming temperatures. Not much has changed since the 1980s … the IPCC has had five major updates and their conclusion on “how much” warming has not changed .. i.e.l 1.4 to 4.5 deg “C. These are all model projections. The entire approach still is deterministic in the sense of modeling and statistics… models are focused on greenhouse gas forcing esp. CO2 and do not include important known but unquantified forcings such as solar variabilitiy, particulates, urbanization, … What has changed is the intensity of propagandizing including youth indoctrination. Many people have much at stake in the game including salaries, careers, lifetime appointments, reputations… Millennial scale projections of global temperatures should be questioned and questioning assumptions and basis of claims should be celebrated not berated not condemned… ask Galileo.

  10. Jonathan,

    While there may be good arguments against many of the policy proposals forwarded in DC, including the ill-fated Waxman-Markey climate bill and the Clean Power Plan—the alternative to these policies should not be doing nothing at all.

    May I say that this is of a piece with your previous posts on climate change. My impression, perhaps unfair, is that you are prepared to accept climate change as a reality, but unwilling to endorse any attempt to address the problem, because all proposals fail some sort of ideological test.

    You are workibg both sides of the street here. You don’t want to be labeled a “denialist,” yet feel you must maintain your bona fides with the NRO crew and others, so the strategy is to accept that there is a problem, but find endless reasons to oppose any solution.

    Prove me wrong.

  11. I repeat: since Volokh moved to Reason, the comments have been inundated by right-wing cranks.

    1. As opposed to the left wing cranks at WaPo.

    2. “Right-wing cranks” – everyone who questions the existence of a “crisis” created in the imaginations of statists in order to justify complete government control over every aspect of our lives.

      1. The immigration “crisis?” The Iran “crisis?” The abortion “crisis?”

        Bigoted right-wing cranks are among my favorite faux libertarians.

    3. From what I’ve seen the same general dynamic and regulars prevail here as in WAPOO. The biggest difference is that occasionally Somin/Eugene would make a post that would inexplicably be picked up by other outlets and the general WAPOO audience would come flooding in and spam hundreds of posts about Drumpf or ad hominem sexual or homophobic insults against conservatives. So it was mildly annoying since you couldn’t hold an adult conversation for a couple hours till the tide receded away to the next clickbait Buzzfeed/WAPOO article about how Drumpf was executing children at the border.

      So there was that, which I’m frankly fine without. Other than that, the commenting system here kinda sucks and is missing a whole bunch of QoL features for no apparent reason.

  12. Is it any real surprise when a libertarian starts writing articles from a center-left perspective once he joins the staff of a center-left publication?

    1. Libertarians are left, just not on taxes/spending and guns.

      1. Libertarians are neither left nor right. A one-dimensional model is inadequate to describe anything beyond simplistic (and highly idealized) two-party politics. It’s long past time to toss that one-dimensional model onto the garbage heap of history.

        1. “Libertarians are neither left nor right.”

          Libertarians are both left AND right.

          This is so because no two libertarians agree about much of anything, including just what, exactly, makes one a “libertarian”. There are right-ward facing libertarians, there are left-ward facing libertarians, and there are centrist libertarians.

  13. Climate SCIENCE is about whether or not the climate is changing, and if it is, how fast and how big with the change(s) be?

    Climate POLICY is about what, if anything, should be done about it. Choosing to ignore the change has the advantage of not requiring any immediate change to behavior, and a lot of people find that comforting.
    On the other hand, choosing to ignore the change doesn’t make the change not happen any more. The costs of climate change are becoming more and more obvious. More and bigger storms, hotter, drier summers in the west, with the resultant wildfire problem. More and bigger tornadoes in tornado alley. Colder winters in the north.
    Casualty insurance costs are going to rise, and any casualty insurance company that isn’t rock-solid is going to have financial problems.

    1. The costs of climate change are becoming more and more obvious.

      Are they? I would like to see the attribution analysis. You know: the percentage of the drier western summer that can be concretely ascribed to climate change, and therefore the adjusted material cost for which it can be held to blame.

      No, I think the costs are not only not obvious: they are absolutely inscrutable. You can’t pull apart a tornado and say it was 3 percent climate change that caused that $50 million in damage, so climate change got us for $1.5 million that time. Or rather, you COULD, but you would just be MAKING UP NUMBERS and all the while claiming that the costs were becoming more and more obvious.

      The impact is impossible to measure with any degree of confidence. The costs are impossible to measure with any degree of confidence. Having absolutely no credible approach to estimating those “obvious” costs means that yes, doing nothing– the definitive low-cost-outlay strategy– is a serious candidate for consideration. To some of us, it is the obvious candidate for consideration.

      1. Indeed. And the other side of the coin needs to be addressed. Did the climate change lead to any beneficial effects? Did the warmer temperatures increase growing seasons, increasing crop yield? Did it reduce heating costs in the winter? Did moderation of the extreme temperature variations reduce severe weather events?

      2. “No, I think the costs are not only not obvious: they are absolutely inscrutable. You can’t pull apart a tornado and say it was 3 percent climate change that caused that $50 million in damage, so climate change got us for $1.5 million that time.”

        Um… why would you want to do this?
        The cost of climate change is that you get more wildfires in the west, more and bigger storms, more severe winters in the north. This is readily observable.
        The fact that you can’t say “there will be exactly $15.23 billion worth of climate change damage” doesn’t mean that the damage didn’t happen.
        You can’t tell, in advance, how many people a drunk driver will kill. This doesn’t mean that dead people aren’t a cost of drunk driving.

        1. “The cost of climate change is that you get….more severe winters in the north”

          So….global warming causes more severe winters. Hmm…. Something’s askew here.

          1. That’s the brilliance of climate alarmism. Anything other than perfectly average days year-round is evidence of climate change.

            1. Evidence of the climate being different now than it used to be is evidence of climate change.

          2. “So….global warming causes more severe winters. Hmm…. Something’s askew here.”

            If something’s too complicated for you to understand, just say so.

            Climate change causes more severe winters. That’s why people who know what they’re talking about look at you like you’re saying something stupid when you make that “look at all this snow. Where’s my global warming?” joke every year.

            1. “Climate change causes more severe winters”.

              For the sake of argument, we’ll assume by climate change you mean global warming via increased greenhouse gas emissions, and not some obscure other type of climate change (IE volcanic sulfur emissions).

              So, why don’t you explain how increased warming is going to create more severe winters? Please, go into depth.

              1. Heat does not have a uniform effect on temperature.
                This is a solved problem. Has been for like a century The ‘if global warming, why snow’ argument has been asked and answered many times, don’t play the fool.

                1. “Heat does not have a uniform effect on temperature”

                  Depends… But, for the sake of argument, in general, heat applied in a specific area of a system will heat up that area of the system at a faster rate, before it can equilibrate to the rest of the system.

                  Where James really gets in trouble is when he seems to claim that additional heat will cause a reduction in temperature. Which….is generally wrong. Indeed, if you look at the average winter temperatures in Minnesota, for example, they’re going up. Not down. Not more severe. And in fact, higher average temperatures would moderate any cold-weather events (in terms of temperature)

                  Note, I didn’t claim anything about weather or snow or anything. Indeed, James made the claim about “more severe winters”. Which means he’s either making a weather argument about GW (which is wrong), or he’s actually thinking GW will lower average temperatures (Which is dead wrong). Worse, he complicates it by not explaining his position, but insinuating anyone who questions an unusual argument is too dumb to understand.

                  This, BTW, undermines your entire line of argument on GW, when facts and theories, especially very unusual ones like James purports, aren’t backed up, but are just responded to with “you’re too dumb, listen to the smart people in charge” It makes it sound like you’re 17th century preachers blaming everything on the devil.

                  1. Additional heat energy will cause more chaos in any non equilibrium areas of the system. More chaos means more variability in temperature, among other things.

                    So the average goes up, but so does the deviation. Pointing to Minnesota as a counterexample only works if JP had said ‘always causes.’

                    You can’t draw a causal line to a specific event, but that doesn’t mean nothing is happening.

                    I’m not undermining anything by calling out your glib ‘if winter why cold’ strawmanning of JP’s comment.

        2. “The cost of climate change is that you get more wildfires in the west, more and bigger storms, more severe winters in the north. This is readily observable.”

          Except that NOAA says that’s not actually true.

          “With increased National Doppler radar coverage, increasing population, and greater attention to tornado reporting, there has been an increase in the number of tornado reports over the past several decades. This can create a misleading appearance of an increasing trend in tornado frequency. To better understand the variability and trend in tornado frequency in the United States, the total number of EF-1 and stronger, as well as strong to violent tornadoes (EF-3 to EF-5 category on the Enhanced Fujita scale) can be analyzed. These tornadoes would have likely been reported even during the decades before Doppler radar use became widespread and practices resulted in increasing tornado reports. The bar charts below indicate there has been little trend in the frequency of the stronger tornadoes over the past 55 years.”

          And, by “little trend”, they mean that the only trend they’ve seen is DOWN.

          Worse storms is an activist talking point, not a scientific observation.

          1. A good example “bigger badder storms” are the warmists predicting more bigger and more intense hurricanes due to warme sea surface temps.

            Adjusting for observational deficiencies, the accumulated cyclone energy index (ACE) has remained virtually unchanged since the mid 1800’s. During the same period of time, the SST has increased at a similar rate as the overal temp increase. In effect, the rising SST trend line has had no effect on the flat ACE trend line, yet, the climate science consensus is that some unknown day in the future, that trend line will shift.

            1. In fact, my general expectation would be that greenhouse mediated warming would suppress storm intensity. Storms are, essentially, heat engines, and the greenhouse effect raises temperatures by insulating the heat sink end of those engines. Not exactly what you’d expect to boost engine power.

              That is just my general expectation, though. It could certainly work out differently. Just doesn’t seem to be, to date.

              1. “In fact, my general expectation would be that greenhouse mediated warming would suppress storm intensity”

                If you think it’s relevant that your expectations are contrary to other peoples’, OK. Most of us had figured that out, already.

                Storms are driven by heat energy. So your theory is that if there is more heat energy, the intensity of the storms will go down? So, then, what is causing the increases?

                1. “Storms are driven by heat energy”.

                  That’s not exactly true. Storms are driven by a differential in heat energy (or temperature).

                  Now, what global warming does is an interesting effect. It raises temperatures. However, the way it does so (by absorbing IR and re-radiating as heat), effectively acts to equalize temperature differentials. By acting to equalize temperature differentials, it may effectively reduce storms.

                  1. Where are you getting this? Because that’s just not true in a system with oceans.

                    1. Climatology 101. Winds, weather, storms, etc, are a response to the uneven heating of the earth by the sun. Temperature differentials.

                    2. Except global warming doesn’t act to equalize temperature differentials in a system with oceans acting as thermal sinks.

                2. Polloack comment – “Storms are driven by heat energy. So your theory is that if there is more heat energy, the intensity of the storms will go down? So, then, what is causing the increases?”

                  FWIW – The empirical evidence shows that the number/frequency/intensity of storms has remained flat for the last 170+ years. The warmists claims of increaing intensity & frequency is without empirical data supporting the alarmist/warmist claims.

        3. Except that none of the things you list as “readily observable” actually are observable.

          Are there more wildfires reported in the west? Yes. How many of those are the result of our decades long self-destructive forest management policies which lead to a massive buildup of debris, brush and undergrowth? (That is, regardless of climate.) How many are the result of people choosing to live in closer proximity to forests and therefore more likely to report fires than previously would have gone unremarked?

          Are there more big storms or bigger storms? No, the actual measured evidence is explicitly against you on this one. The actual measures of storm energy and large storm count is flat to slightly down over the period of CO2 increase. The only two measures going up are total storm count with the increase entirely in the small storms that were previously beyond our ability to find and report and $ amount of storm damage – a factor that is skewed by our continued policies of incenting construction in known storm zones.

          1. “Except that none of the things you list as “readily observable” actually are observable.”

            Pick a news channel that doesn’t have a politically-biased reason to obscure it.

            “Are there more big storms or bigger storms? No, the actual measured evidence is explicitly against you on this one.”

            Right. All those people saying their houses are underwater are mistaken, or speaking figuratively?

      3. ” To some of us, it is the obvious candidate for consideration.”

        As I said, some people like stupid but easy solutions.

  14. If we think about climate risks in the same fashion we think about risks in other contexts, we should most certainly hedge—and hedge aggressively—by removing fossil fuels from the economy as quickly as possible. . . .

    I’ve been in the financial markets for 35 years, and the writer of the above wouldn’t know a hedge if it snuck up behind him and bit him on the ass.

    1. I’ve been in the financial markets for 35 years, and the writer of the above wouldn’t know a hedge if it snuck up behind him and bit him on the ass.

      Is that like a shrubbery?

  15. It is striking how few of the comments respond at all to the theme of the OP—which is not about endorsing or debunking climate models. It is about which approaches make sense when managing risks of uncertain magnitudes and uncertain probabilities.

    1. You’re new here aren’t you?

    2. “It is about which approaches make sense when managing risks of uncertain magnitudes and uncertain probabilities.“

      The one approach which makes NO sense is to accept as a given the existence of a risk when there is zero empirical evidence for its existence. Under your approach, we should develop an approach to deal with the possibility that human civilization is attacked by millions of fire-breathing dragons – a risk of “uncertain magnitude and uncertain probability.”

      1. We’ve put some of our most imaginative brains on that exact subject, and the result is kaiju movies.

        1. And yet there are no kaiju-and-trade policies enacted anywhere in the world. We’re just burying our heads in the sand.

          The policies of the unregulated capitalism are driving us towards a point of increasing kaiju attacks. We should be paying taxes now to offset the inevitable expenses that will come when (not if) kaiju attacks begin to destroy major coastal cities.

      2. It is hard to take seriously any argument from someone willing to ignore each of: laboratory science, rising measured CO2 levels in the atmosphere, and a profusion of observations from the natural world (retreating glaciers, northward species migrations, melting ice caps, advancing seasonal responses among species, etc.). You may find that evidence unconvincing. A claim that they amount to “zero empirical evidence” is preposterous.

        Equally striking? The dearth of empirical evidence pointing in the other direction.

        1. “and a profusion of observations from the natural world (retreating glaciers, northward species migrations, melting ice caps, advancing seasonal responses among species, etc.). ”

          Those items mentioned are very strong evidence that the earth is warming.

          There is good theoritical evidence that rising CO2 is a contributing factor, but there is very little evidence that co2 is anything more than a minor contributing factor. It is highly unlikely that the rising co2 is a major factor, much less, the driving factor in the current warming.
          280ppm to 400ppm. That is the equivilant of going from 3 parts to 4 parts out of 10,000 over a period of 170+years.

        2. Stephen Lathrop, you are either being willfully obtuse or just a liar. The claim for which I asserted “no empirical evidence” was the claim of attribution – that increases in CO2 is the primary, if not sole driver of warming temperatures. I do NOT deny, and never did, (a) the fact that Earth has experienced minor warming (about 0.8 degree C) from 1880 to the present; or (b) the fact that atmospheric levels of CO2 have increased from about 280 ppmv to about 410 ppmv during the same period. But SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE that (b) is the direct and proximate cause of (a).

          1. You said there was no evidence. All of that is evidence, which you choose to deny piecemeal to avoid confronting its imposing totality. The strength of that totality is in the variety of its methods. Lab science makes a powerful case that (b) is the direct and proximate cause of (a). Empirical results from myriad studies stand as confirmations of the predictions from the laboratory.

            That is a classic example of the scientific method at work, but standing ready to be falsified. Falsification would require science to the contrary, which seems not to be forthcoming, or unpersuasive. For instance, critiques of climate models as inaccurate are inherently unpersuasive, because the models themselves are not the empirical evidence justifying the theory. What is your suggestion for the most persuasive falsification of the empirical case for man-caused global climate change?

            1. Steve – As Diver & I stated, there is plenty of solid evidence that the earth is in a warming trend. The evidence you cited is clearly solid evidence for the warming trend. However, there is good theoretical evidence that co2 is a contributing factor in the warming, but very little if any evidence that co2 is the primary driver.

    3. Look, this is “precautionary principle” thinking. And the precautionary principle is just a fancy way of saying, “Don’t just stand there, DO SOMETHING.”, in cases where you don’t actually have enough information to decide what to do.

      We’re in the middle of an ice age right now, basking in a temporary inter-glacial period. That’s the long term climate reality. There’s an enormous amount of downward risk when it comes to climate, that climate alarmists don’t like to talk about, because they’ve focused on warming as the threat of the moment.

      For all we know, anthropogenic global warming is the only reason the glaciers aren’t marching across civilization, burying our cities under miles of ice. There’s significant reason to believe this might be the case.

      Taking a leap in the dark kind of requires knowing which direction you need to leap. People advocating the “precautionary principle” generally rig the game by specifying what you’re to take precautions against, and implicitly ruling out of consideration threats that might counsel the opposing action from what they want.

      1. “For all we know . . . ”

        Right. We know damned little about future climate. What we do know about, is the climate upon which our present biological, ecological, and economic systems are founded. Specifically, we know those systems depend on the continuation, insofar as may be possible, of the climate in which they evolved, and with which we are accustomed. Any thought to the contrary is as subject to standard climate-skeptic-like critiques about uncertainty as the climate models themselves are.

        That leads conservatives to conclude, “Best to do what we can to avoid too much change to the material basis of our civilization.” Against that conservative argument are arrayed objections of at least 5 distinct kinds:

        1. Nothing man-made is happening. It’s all a hoax, perpetrated by people trying to make money by fooling everyone.

        2. We can’t know with specificity what is going to happen, so we can’t afford to care. And especially we refuse to suffer arguments based on the direction of change as justifying policies which push in the opposite direction. Everything must wait until the future has been quantified with an accuracy beyond our ability to object.

        3. We refuse to consider anything that is happening to be sufficiently threatening to justify policy changes. All the policy changes would require collective action, and market regulations. Our ideology insists on limiting policy to individual choices, in a free-market context. We judge the magnitude of climate threats according to the challenge to our ideology posed by any proposed solutions.

        4. People advocating policy responses to climate change are people we oppose, on everything. If they prefer a policy, we oppose it.

        5. Proposed policies are too expensive. We don’t know how costly the damages might be, or when they will occur, so it is stupid to suffer expenses now to prevent damages later.

        Brett, can you think of any objection to climate-change policy which is not motivated by reasoning from one of those categories, or some combination of them? Do any of those 5 strike you as a more conservative approach than advocating policies to minimize climate change?

        What I am looking for here is a test of reason, not some diatribe about China and India. Please note that reason excludes the China/India kind of response for anyone who objects to unknowable futures.

        1. I suppose you’d class Bjorn Lomberg’s work as #5?

          I think we can conclusively say that rising CO2 levels are the work of man. I’m tentatively willing to agree that this is going to lead to some degree of warming. I am as yet rather unpersuaded that it will be a large amount of warming; So far the climate seems to be running cooler than most of the models.

          Now, prove that some degree of warming is a bad thing. Rather than just assuming that the Earth was at some global optimum temperature back in the 60’s or whenever. Again, more people dying of cold than heat, remember?

          Prove that it’s a bad enough thing to be more expensive than the proposed remedies. Taking into account the lost growth to the global economy due to that expense, mind you.

          Give me some reason to think that any proposal capable of reversing this stands some realistic chance of being adopted widely enough to actually do that. Rather than just being a unilateral cost to no ultimate effect because the developing world burns enough coal to swamp the reductions in the developed world.

          Don’t just assert these things, demonstrate them.

  16. I expect that the majority of readers winced (justifiably) at the loaded term “climate policy skeptic.” Most flinch at the word “denier.” The catchy kicker (“not do nothing”) at the end of this post was obvious bait.
    Only those utterly unaware of the planet’s geologic history think that climate conditions are stable. Yes, yes, “humans have contributed” heat and pollution to the environment – without malice. Many recognize that there’s change. It’s a shame that all this is politicized.
    What appalls me most is that few climate alarm advocates (even those shrouded by cover of actuarial terminology) speak to the urgency of adapting to change (whatever the place or scale). No, no … policy makers priority is “stop climate change” and “reverse climate change” through taxation. Tax carbon, tax the use of natural resources, nudge-nudge-nudge. This approach to does not impress.
    All species have always had to adapt to survive climate changes (plural), even sudden, natural, cataclysmic climate changes. If seas are rising rapidly, better get to moving those massive populations uphill or build seawalls (how’s Holland faring? Go take notes). If temperatures are rising and storm patterns are really on the rise, engineers should be focusing their efforts on heat-exchange technology instead of what may be poorly-situated wind farms. Get on with whatever …and that whatever should be tangible.

    1. “No, no … policy makers priority is “stop climate change” and “reverse climate change” through taxation.”

      The core problem is that since the link between actions that cause climate change, and the damages resulting from climate change, is highly complex. Our legal system has long been able to handle cases where one person does something that harms another person (or their property) and the link between action and harm is clear, direct, and obvious.
      Sometimes, though, it’s possible to harvest profits from some activity because someone else pays the costs. My lead mine produces gold for me, and lead poisoning for people downwind of my mine. But how do they prove that it was MY lead that poisoned them?
      The goal of applying taxation are twofold… first, you generate money that can be used to help people adversely affected, and secondly, it encourages people to alter their behavior without setting a law that says “You have to…”

    2. It’s a shame that all this is politicized.

      No. Except for violence, however organized, politics is the only tool people have to deal with collective problems. The shame is using a premise that there are no collective problems, or that there shouldn’t be.

      All species have always had to adapt to survive climate changes (plural), even sudden, natural, cataclysmic climate changes.

      Problem is, this particular change is more sudden, and notably so, than any previous climate change science has disclosed. That is at once suggestive evidence that today’s change is man-made, and also sufficient evidence to open the question whether species will fare less well in this instance than in previous (unlike) examples.

      1. “Problem is, this particular change is more sudden, and notably so, than any previous climate change science has disclosed.”

        More so than any previous climate change the advocates presently care to acknowledge. For instance, the “little ice age” had a fairly fast onset.

        I think they don’t want to talk about fast onset climate changes in the past, because they were mostly downward, and the activists don’t want anybody thinking about the possibility of downward temperature excursions at the moment.

        1. I think they don’t want to talk about fast onset climate changes in the past, because they were mostly downward, and the activists don’t want anybody thinking about the possibility of downward temperature excursions at the moment.

          You are attributing bad faith to those you disagree with. What a surprise.

          1. I’m observing bad faith. The East Anglia emails did get leaked, remember. They’re not getting stuffed down the old memory hole.

            Past temperature records ARE being messed with, conspicuously.

            Peer review IS being gamed to suppress the other side of the argument.

            That doesn’t mean that global warming is a total fabrication, but some dodgy things ARE going on.

            1. Right. Anything that can be spun as “dodgy” implies that everyone who takes the same side of a debate is acting in bad faith.

  17. I’m enjoying the pivot from ‘it’s not happening’ to ‘there’s no point in doing anything about it.’ It’s making the comments here especially incoherent.
    And yet neither side takes the other to task. Almost as though they’re tribal allies just trying on arguments.

    1. Are you a lawyer?
      Have you ever heard of arguing in the alternative?

      1. No one is claiming to be arguing in the alternative.

        Even more tellingly, no one is actually arguing the it’s all a hoax science attempts that used to be copypasted all over threads like this, except for DjDD for whom it is not going well.

        I will note that the ships passing in the night issue I brought up has Brett as a counterexample.

        1. I don’t think it’s all a hoax, but I’m open to the possibility that there’s a hoax component to it, because some of the adjustments to the temperature records in the US and several other countries, (Australia, for instance.) look rather dodgy. High quality rural stations having their temperatures brought into agreement with urban stations subject to the heat island effect, for instance. It has been established that, if you restrict your analysis to just the rural stations that haven’t had their numbers “adjusted”, the warming rate declines rather significantly.

          But, notably, doesn’t go away completely.

          1. And I don’t deny that as with any academic area, there is some monkeying with the numbers to get the result you expect. But the idea that this effect has dominated for years in the aggregate will require more evidence than that it has happened in specific instances.

            1. And more evidence will require more transparency.

          2. A hoax perpetrated by the Chinese, no doubt.

        2. So far as I can tell, I’m the ONLY one here to have cited a published scientific paper written by a PhD in Atmospheric Physics in support of my argument. So, yeah, if by “not going well” you mean that no one has yes offered a substantive response to that, I guess you are right.

          1. The rebuttal is that your paper, at least as you interpreted it, fails Thermodynamics 101.

    2. Everyone agrees that the climate is changing. It’s been changing from the beginning of the earth, and it’s changing now. What we deny is that it’s “settled science” that human CO2 emissions have caused that change (there’s zero evidence of that), and when the left’s power grabbing schemes purport to only slow down the “We’re totally screwed” such that it happens in 2080 instead of 2075, it’s hard to take it seriously.

    3. And I don’t see pivots.
      I see layers and layers of objections, only one of which need suffice to destroy the “let’s ground every airplane, grab everyone’s money, and imprison anyone who disagrees with us” argument.

      1. Layers of objections? What, that the other side are morons, hoaxers, AND Marxists?

        As I said, look at a climate thread from just 2 years ago. People were arguing graphs and stuff that global warming was full-on not happening. Still wrong, still bamboozling, but they at least pretended to be into the science.

        Now that’s a rare breed and the new hotness seems to be ‘consider my policy argument or you’re a liar!’

        You can pretend it’s actually just a layered defense, but it looks more to me like a fallback defense.

        1. A fallback defense is a layer defense.

          The number of commentators here has declined so I don’t think a decline in assertions that it is a hoax is meaningful.

          1. Falling back from one layer to another is fine in the courtroom, but a bit more problematic when you’ve claimed all who disagree with your original position are dupes or liars.

            And then you withdraw from your original position.

            The VC’s sample size is small and not a great representation of the right generally. But the regulars that remain have notably shifted their chosen thesis.

      2. “I see layers and layers of objections, only one of which need suffice to destroy the “let’s ground every airplane, grab everyone’s money, and imprison anyone who disagrees with us” argument.”

        This will come in handy if anybody ever makes a “let’s ground every airplane, grab everyone’s money, and imprison anyone who disagrees with us” argument.
        Although, there have been some rallies recently where chanting “lock them up” over and over when referring to political opponents has been popular, so at least one third of this unholy triad of imaginary arguments is at least one the horizon, if not the one you imagined.

    4. I don’t know about your experience, but most of the Climate Skeptic community has been saying “it’s too small to worry about and the cures are worse than the disease” for decades now.

      It’s only the small fringe that thinks it doesn’t exist. It’s similar to the fringe that thinks India will be uninhabitable in 20 years. They aren’t important, don’t understand the facts, and aren’t very numerous. However, those groups are loud, so people hear them a lot

      1. Could be. All I have is my sample here, and occasional dipping my toe into more fringy places for fun.

        I’ve heard the economic argument before, but not the nihilistic one. And the death of the complete denial position does seem a notable shift to me.

        1. I haven’t encountered the nihilistic argument much. After all, it does require taking seriously the more extreme predictions; “Climate zones will move a couple hundred miles North over the course of the century!” is not normally the stuff of nihilistic resignation.

          1. Indeed – I’m commenting on them here because they’re new to me. But they’re coming from multiple vectors on this thread.

  18. Niskanen Center and The Bulwark. Quite a laughable combination.

  19. http://www.climatecodered.org/2019/05/can-we-think-in-new-ways-about.html
    “Climate change could end human civilization by 2050: report”

    This a good example of pseudo science perpetuated by the alarmist community.

    Yes the earth has been on a warming trend for the last 170+ years and yes the increased co2 may be a contributing factor.
    However, science fiction masquerating as legitimate science doesn’t enhance the credibility of the actual scientists, nor does it provide any insight to the science.

  20. Nuclear waste is valuable and recyclable. And it should only get better if we continue to invest and research.
    Recycling Nuclear Waste

  21. The problem with his position is that it assumes that our predictive abilities are sufficiently well-developed to even know what the spread of distributions is in order to conclude what hedges make sense. But they aren’t, and that’s where this all falls apart.

  22. Not an argument. “We must act because the outcome might be bad” is the sort of thing you do in risk management, but if the cost of dealing with the risk is too great, the answer is to not be in that business to begin with.

    1. The business of living on earth?

      1. The business of green industry. Take an environmental economics course sometime. The best path forward is to follow the market. When fossil fuels are no longer viable, that’s when change will occur. If global warming is really so damaging, it will be reflected in the markets.

        1. “If global warming is really so damaging, it will be reflected in the markets.”

          IF, and it’s a big “if”, all of the costs are correctly attributed. If they aren’t, and costs can be and are transferred to others, then markets will happily ignore those costs because someone else is paying them.

        2. Markets’ timescale is not what you think it is.

  23. Yes, there is a greenhouse effect at work. The unanswered question is whether the planet reacts to it very little or a whole bunch.

    A whole bunch is if the planet warms up more than 2 degrees C for a doubling… the IPCC assessment reports still think the upper bound is over 4 degC.

    If it is 1.25C like some physicists think, there is no problem. At all. It takes a 2C increase for a doubling to even have climate instabilities (think tipping points). Warming would be mild and small compared to natural variations, and some also think that a big natural variation pointing to cooling is upon us… that solar cycle 25 will be less energetic than 24 has been, and cycle 26 will herald a Daltonish or even Maunderish solar minimum. Little Ice Age conditions.

    Warmists keep ignoring the energetic Sun that has illuminated the planet from the 1930’s until fairly recently has been at an 8000 year peak; I’d bet the crash of the Warmist alarm politics will be in the next five years.

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Right of Access

When Should Plaintiffs Be Able to Sue Anonymously?

(1) If they're alleging sexual abuse. (2) If they're alleging they were libeled as sexual abusers. (3) Both. (4) Neither.

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I've recently started looking into anonymous "John Doe" (or "Jane Doe") litigation; generally speaking, people are presumptively required to sue in their own names, but sometimes courts allow them to sue anonymously. Thus, from the tellingly named Sealed Plaintiff v. Sealed Defendant #1 (2d Cir. 2008):

Pursuant to Rule 10(a) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, "[t]he title of [a] complaint must name all the parties." This requirement, though seemingly pedestrian, serves the vital purpose of facilitating public scrutiny of judicial proceedings and therefore cannot be set aside lightly. Certainly, "[i]dentifying the parties to the proceeding is an important dimension of publicness. The people have a right to know who is using their courts."

Courts have nevertheless "carved out a limited number of exceptions to the general requirement of disclosure [of the names of parties], which permit plaintiffs to proceed anonymously." Indeed, we have approved of litigating under a pseudonym in certain circumstances [such as] "… the privacy of plaintiff's child …." …

The courts that have considered this issue have framed the relevant inquiry as a balancing test that weighs the plaintiff's need for anonymity against countervailing interests in full disclosure…. "[A] party may preserve his or her anonymity in judicial proceedings in special circumstances when the party's need for anonymity outweighs [1] prejudice to the opposing party and [2] the public's interest in knowing the party's identity."…

This balancing of interests entails the consideration of several factors that have been identified by our sister Circuits and the district courts in this Circuit. We note with approval the following factors, with the caution that this list is non-exhaustive  and district courts should take into account other factors relevant to the particular case under consideration:

  1. whether the litigation involves matters that are "highly sensitive and [of a] personal nature,"
  2. "whether identification poses a risk of retaliatory physical or mental harm to the … party [seeking to proceed anonymously] or even more critically, to innocent non-parties,"
  3. whether identification presents other harms and the likely severity of those harms, including whether "the injury litigated against would be incurred as a result of the disclosure of the plaintiff's identity,"
  4. whether the plaintiff is particularly vulnerable to the possible harms of disclosure, particularly in light of his age,
  5. whether the suit is challenging the actions of the government or that of private parties,
  6. whether the defendant is prejudiced by allowing the plaintiff to press his claims anonymously, whether the nature of that prejudice (if any) differs at any particular stage of the litigation, and whether any prejudice can be mitigated by the district court,
  7. whether the plaintiff's identity has thus far been kept confidential,
  8. whether the public's interest in the litigation is furthered by requiring the plaintiff to disclose his identity,
  9. "whether, because of the purely legal nature of the issues presented or otherwise, there is an atypically weak public interest in knowing the litigants' identities," and
  10. whether there are any alternative mechanisms for protecting the confidentiality of the plaintiff.

From what I've seen, courts are especially likely to allow anonymous litigation where the plaintiff is alleging that the defendant raped her, as item 1 above suggests; one of the women suing Harvey Weinstein, for instance, is apparently litigating under the pseudonym "Emma Loman." (The defendant would of course have to know the plaintiff's name to be able to properly put on a defense, but the question is whether the name is disclosed to the public.) But what if the plaintiff is alleging that the defendant had falsely accused him of rape (or other sexual misconduct)? Some cases seem to say that there too the plaintiff can sometimes proceed anonymously (depending on the circumstances), e.g.,

There can be no doubt that the litigation here focuses on "a matter of sensitive and highly personal nature." Plaintiff has been accused of sexual misconduct, the mere accusation of which, if disclosed, can invite harassment and ridicule. "[C]ommon sense suffices to understand that an adjudication of responsibility for sexual misconduct carries a much more powerful stigma than an adjudication of run-of-the-mill assault or vandalism." Moreover, it is possible that plaintiff could be targeted for "retaliatory physical or mental harm" based on the accusations alone.

This threat is all the more serious given that this case has drawn significant media attention, which means many people across the country are aware of Roe's accusations against plaintiff. Indeed, some responses to the media's reporting on this case have been vitriolic, which is not particularly surprising given the highly-charged nature of the accusations. Moreover, it bears reiteration that the fact that accusations of this sort inspire passionate responses and have severe ramifications is reflected in the anonymity afforded to the accusers and the accused when participating in GMU's disciplinary proceedings. It makes little sense to lift the veil of pseudonymity that—for good reason—would otherwise cover these proceedings simply because the university erred and left the accused with no redress other than a resort to federal litigation….

On the other hand, at least one case takes the opposite view:

[T]hose courts allowing plaintiffs to proceed pseudonymously when the cases involved sexual assault did so because the plaintiff allegedly was the victim of such conduct, not because the plaintiff alleges that he was falsely accused of such conduct.

Anonymity, by the way, may sometimes be allowed only for pretrial proceedings; the jury may well be told who the plaintiff is, and then the media would learn the information and be able to publicly report it. But since over 99% of all filed civil cases don't go to jury trial, many plaintiffs would find anonymity valuable even if they know that it would be lost if a jury trial takes place.

What do you folks think? Should it be easier for plaintiffs (and defendants) to litigate anonymously? Harder? How should this play out in sexual misconduct cases, in libel cases where the libel consisted of allegations of sexual misconduct, and in other cases? Should it matter whether the case has drawn a good deal of publicity, and which way should that cut?

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25 responses to “When Should Plaintiffs Be Able to Sue Anonymously?

  1. (4) Neither. If there is a strong enough public policy reason to make a particular exception to or allow the courts to make their own exceptions to the FRCP then the FRCP should be formally changed to either include that exception or grant the courts the discretion to create their own.

    1. Fair enough, but say that the FRCP is indeed formally changed to return to courts the power to make such rules, thus reflecting that federal courts have indeed taken on that power (rightly or wrongly). Or say that we’re in a state that hasn’t adopted the FRCP, and leaves anonymity questions to the common-law process. How should courts exercise that power?

      1. There’s no reason to believe that all courts (of whatever type) should have the same rules. It DOES help people who switch back and forth between different courts, and it does help law professors who teach procedure (or Evidence) to have the same rules apply everywhere. But different states might value different things, and set their court procedure accordingly.

  2. If the victim wants the blanket of anonymity then the defendant gets the same, if the victim wants to call out the defendant publicly then they must come out publicly. No need to continue the steady march toward making sex crimes (toward women) into an exalted class upon which due process does not apply.

  3. I knew someone who thought the cases in the law school case books had fictitious party names until she read the Parker case in Contracts — Parker being the real last name of actress Shirley McClaine (and, incidentally, her brother, Warren Beatty).

    1. Why would Warren Beatty’s “real last name” be that of his sister’s husband?

      1. You’re right. My mistake.

      2. “Why would Warren Beatty’s ‘real last name’ be that of his sister’s husband?”

        Are they from one of those places where your dad is also sometimes your uncle?

  4. I’ve always thought the courts should be much more deferential to private parties’ privacy interests in litigation. Unlike the criminal justice system, where the state has a duty to protect its citizens and the citizens, in turn, have a right to see whether (or how that’s being done), or a civil suit involving the government as a party (in which some of the same interests may be at play), the civil justice system as applied to private actors appears to have developed as a preferred alternative to having neighbors simply level shotguns at one another over a property line or a daughter. Nevertheless, the courts appear to apply a strong public interest in all civil suits, and it seems to me that anonymous plaintiffs may seek to use the publicity attendant to modern litigation as both sword and shield, with only the accused being subject to public scrutiny and adverse publicity, which, in turn, might cause the accused to resolve the matter on something other than the merits. The presumption of innocence (to the extent it exists at all) exists mostly in the operation of the court system, not in the press, and I think the normal human reaction is to be more open to believing the worst about people we don’t know (so long as it doesn’t involve, say, a claim of alien abduction) than giving people who are accused the benefit of the doubt.

    1. Assuming that we’re talking about the courts that taxpayers established to operate at public expense, I would say the public very much has an interest in understanding how these disputes are resolved – an interest that the parties who take advantage of the taxpayers’ generosity should not be able to dismiss (even by stipulation) absent some extraordinarily compelling justification.

      1. Understood. But — from a defendant’s point of view — he, she or it is more often than not an involuntary participant in the legal proceeding. Everyone else — the judge, the lawyers, the court staff, and the plaintiff — are voluntary participants. (I guess you could argue that a plaintiff with a meritorious claim is not a voluntary participant, but even there are valid claims worth pursuing and then there are valid claims that are not worth pursuing. Also, a race-to-the-courthouse situation might present a situation where the defendant would have been the plaintiff but for having lost that race.) Although the article posed the question of whether (or when) a plaintiff should be able to sue anonymously, I should have been clearer that I was approaching the question from the defendant’s point of view.

  5. And don’t forget Richard Roe. #ejectment

  6. I not only say (3) both, but I would allow anonymity in a much broader range of cases. In particular, two wrongs should be addressed this way.

    (1) Any case in which the plaintiff is suing to preserve or regain privacy, as in this example, should be allowed to be both anonymous and with all filings by either side automatically under seal, at least unless and until the plaintiff loses.

    (2) The law should completely protect every defendant from the indirect consequences of the accusation or suit against him (loss of earnings, home, business relationships, etc) if the prosecutor or plaintiff does not win. This means either keeping the defendant’s identity secret until and unless he loses in court, or automatically treating the accusation or suit as defamation by the plaintiff if the defendant wins. This is important because these consequences are frequently much more devastating than any the court itself will impose.

    (Conversely, privacy plaintiffs or rape accusers who do not win their cases should have their own names made public immediately.)

  7. Wouldn’t someone who was falsely accused of a heinous act WANT the fact that they didn’t do it (as established at trial) to be public knowledge?

    1. Not to mention the opportunity to get to know a lawyer who charges you several hundred dollars an hour, and incur other costs related to the litigation. Thank you for playing our game! And, in response to what is a perfectly reasonable next question, the courts hate assessing — and therefore don’t usually assess — attorney’s fees against an unsuccessful plaintiff because they think it unfair and that doing so might serve as a deterrent to others who might sue.

      1. “Not to mention the opportunity to get to know a lawyer who charges you several hundred dollars an hour, and incur other costs related to the litigation”

        Why are you haring off on this tangent, instead of answering the question that was asked?
        In what way does proceeding anonymously free you of having to pay your lawyer?

        If person A accused you of some heinous act, and then sued you, would you want the situation where you win the lawsuit by proving you didn’t do it, but nobody knows because you and “John Doe” are not publicly connected, leaving people with just the accusations associated with your name, and not the vindication?

  8. Many of the “John Doe” lawsuits involve campus discipline proceedings, which are held in secret. This itself is a problem, because of the secrecy we have very little idea of what happens in these proceedings, and we don’t know to what extent people are being unfairly deprived of an education. But it compounds the problem when people can’t challenge the proceedings anonymously. If they want access to the courts they have to tell the world that they have been accused of sexual misconduct.

    So neither should be able to sue anonymously, but that needs to happen in the context of greater transparency in other procedures.

    1. “Many of the “John Doe” lawsuits involve campus discipline proceedings, which are held in secret.”

      If you’re trying to say that all campus discipline proceedings are secret, you are misinformed.

      “we don’t know to what extent people are being unfairly deprived of an education.”

      Yes, we do… 0 persons are deprived of an education, fairly or otherwise, because there’s more than one place to get one. A person’s education is more likely impaired if they stay someplace they aren’t wanted.

  9. Anonymity in court cases should be strongly discouraged if it’s allowed at all. The most important reason is that effective anonymity requires gag rules and they in turn erode freedom of speech.

    Even if you view your dispute as a private matter, gag rules lead to public officials silencing people who were not a party to your problem, had no desire to be your confidant, and don’t want the burden of protecting your secret.

    1. ” The most important reason is that effective anonymity requires gag rules and they in turn erode freedom of speech. ”

      Proceeding non-anonymously ALSO imposes limits on your freedom of speech. There are all sorts of rules about what you can say (and can’t say) in court, and some for outside, too.

  10. I believe there are a lot of other types of cases that create a great risk of harm to the party simply for being named as a plaintiff or defendant.

    If we’re going to allow the court to censor parties’ names in some suits, why have a test at all? Let all parties have the option of choosing whether they want their name censored or not.

    Any public interest can be satisfied by publishing the names of the parties attached to post-trial verdicts.

  11. There are, admittedly, some hard cases where I can appreciate diverging views here. Ultimately, I simply cannot accept that a person can have legal process invoked against him without being able to tell anyone the particulars. Obviously, there are many instances where the law does precisely that; I would rather begin the task of pruning these once-exceptional instances, rather than expanding them into a general right to invoke/impose anonymity.

  12. […] Click here to view original story: When Should Plaintiffs Be Able to Sue Anonymously? […]

  13. Professor Volokh, there are numerous cases in Washington that involve the Public Records Act and this issue, including a slate of recent cases from Sex Offenders trying to block disclosure of there records.
    You may also find two other cases of interest. First, in Hundtofte v. Encarnación, 181 Wn.2d 1 (2013) the issue is whether litigants could have there name removed from the court docket from a prior eviction case because the mere fact that they were sued for eviction made it harder from them to rent apartments.
    Second, in Bainbridge Isl. Police Guild v. City of Puyallup, 172 Wash.2d 398 the court orders a humorous remedy — “We remand these cases to the trial courts and direct them to order the production of the [certain police records] with
    Bainbridge Island Police Officer Steven Cain’s identity
    redacted” — Officer Cain failed to seek to proceed anonymously in the litigation

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American Values

In Search of a Shared National Narrative

The second post in the Volokh Conspiracy symposium on "Our American Story: The Search for a Shared National Narrative" (ed. by Joshua Claybourn).

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Over the past two decades in America, the enduring, complicated divides of ideology, geography, party, class, religion, and race have created deep fractures in the United States, each side fighting to advance its own mythology and political interests. Of course, we all belong to groups, some as trivial as fans of the same music, some as significant as adherents to the same political party. Sectarianism helped early human beings survive by identifying outsiders and potential enemies, and it remains part of our core instinct. However, allegiance to country has in modern America transcended other loyalties to unite us around shared national narratives, events, and rituals. Although healthy nations may harbor substantial sectarianism, when loyalty to another faction outweighs loyalty to the national sect and national narrative, the political system has the potential to buckle and break.

We've seen these factional clusters deepen, harden, and separate, leading in turn to anger, misunderstanding, and hostility. Meanwhile, trust in institutions—government, business, the media, and higher education—continues to erode. Cultural warfare further splits our society, exposing fundamental differences about our views of justice and human nature. Unable to agree on first principles, we cannot agree on what it means to be American. As a result, we share few of the touchstones that, in the past, contributed to our national mythology. For instance, talk of the Thanksgiving holiday or Puritans now spawns debate over genocide of Native Americans. Talk of the Founding Fathers spurs reminders of the slave system they protected. Even the national anthem causes division in sports. As we disregard or dismantle these symbols and pastimes, thereby altering our national narrative, can we replace them with stories and rites to unite our various groups and maintain meaning in our American experiment?

Should loss of our former narratives concern us? Moving forward, can we recover or create a unifying national narrative? If so, what elements should that narrative comprise? And how should our story influence the wider world? Do the changes underway suggest an existing, common, national narrative as yet unarticulated? These questions prompted me to ask some of America's leading thinkers for essays addressing our central issue—the unifying American story.

The contributors featured in Our American Story—leaders in their fields of history, law, politics, and public policy—approach the question from different angles. Even if searching for a common narrative risks neglecting some current or future group, we acknowledge that danger and still recognize the value of exploring whether a unifying story can be achieved and, if so, what that story may be.

This project, begun with an open-ended question, invites dramatically different takes. Contributions here range from skeptical to certain, from liberal to conservative, from abstract to personal. In a civic society immersed in echo chambers, one may be tempted to read only those contributions that affirm existing views. Avoid that temptation; instead, absorb and engage each approach. The diverse responses expand our possible narratives and remind us that, if a unifying story can be achieved at all, then more than one may be feasible or even necessary. If you insist on common threads or conclusions, then we leave them to you to discover, and we hope you find these contributions important and illuminating. Ultimately, I aim for this project to prompt much-needed conversation and reflection.

Supreme Court

Justices Ginsburg and Gorsuch Switch Sides

A truly interesting and unusual Supreme Court line-up.

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Today the Supreme Court decided four cases, one of which featured a particularly unusual—indeed unprecedented—line up of justices.

In Mont v. United States, the Court decided, 5-4, that if a criminal defendant's pretrial detention is later credited as time served for a new conviction, that detention counts as "imprison[ment] in connection with a conviction" and thus tolls the supervised-release term under federal law, even if the court must make the tolling calculation after learning whether the time will be credited.

One reason the Mont decision may be of interest beyond those with an interest in federal criminal sentencing is the 5-4 line up it produced: Justice Thomas wrote the majority opinion, joined by the Chief Justice, and Justices Alito, Kavanaugh, and Ginsburg. Justice Sotomayor wrote the dissenting opinion, joined by Justices Breyer, Kagan, and Gorsuch.

This line up is interested on multiple levels. At first the decision appears to have produced a traditional 5-4, conservative-liberal split, until one notices that Justice Ginsburg joined with the conservatives and Justice Gorsuch joined the liberals. The resulting division is thus neither one we expect to see ideologically, nor is it readily explained on the basis of other common jurisprudential divisions, such as the formalist-pragmatist split we've often seen in other criminal justice contexts. Further, while we've seen Justice Gorsuch cross over to vote with the liberal justices in other cases, we have not seen this in a case in which one of the more liberal justices also "switched sides."

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