A journalist's second thoughts

The Drum

Updated July 10, 2013 10:55:32

Photo: Ginger Gorman took this picture while interviewing Peter Truong and Mark Newton for ABC Far North in 2010. (Ginger Gorman)

In 2010 Ginger Gorman interviewed a gay couple about their struggle to become parents. When the men were uncovered as paedophiles Gorman was left with a deep sense of grief for the boy and questioned whether there was anything she could have done.

Dear Boy 1, you've become a number. Since your case ended up in court, I'm not allowed to identify you. But I know your name. In my head I say your name. I can see your face, clear as day. I see your sweet, shining eyes and your cheeky smile. I can even hear your little voice, imploring me to come and see your baby chickens. If I knew then what I know now, I would have done anything to stop the heinous crimes being perpetrated against you. I would have done anything to end your misery. But I didn't know. I had no idea. I'm so sorry.

In 2010 I interviewed two gay dads about their struggle to have a child via surrogacy. Those two men turned out to be paedophiles. The crimes they committed against their son are so horrendous that it's hard to even comprehend them.

In June that year I was the heavily pregnant Drive presenter of ABC Far North, based in Cairns. As I awaited the birth of my baby girl, something that had been bothering me for a long time started to drill into my consciousness.

I thought about the freedoms I had: I could get married, have a baby and generally get on with my business.

Sure, life had thrown me a few curve balls. But I'd never been routinely discriminated against. The people I know who are gay are not treated the same as everyone else. They are not equal. That's not just my opinion.

There's evidence that if you are gay, bisexual or transgender it can be a tough journey. You are more likely to have physical and mental health problems. You are more likely to have depression, experience violence, be homeless, take drugs and have suicidal thoughts.

The more I researched, the more compelled I was to cover the issue. This struck me as a significant opportunity to explore diversity in our community and hear the voices of those who usually aren't heard. While we don't always get it right at the ABC, we try to reflect a complex, changing society with many faces.

I wrote an open letter to Far North Queensland's Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender community asking for people to come forward with their stories. The response was powerful, humbling and sometimes shocking.

Mais described being the subject of a violent assault because of his gender identity. The result was a crack to his skull and severe, ongoing pain.

Trish (not her real name) was a young mother with three children who was trapped; she loved her husband and children but was really a lesbian. There didn't seem to be a way out. It was hard not to be moved by the pain in her story.

From the scores of emails I received, I chose nine different stories. One of those was from a gay couple: Mark Newton and Peter Truong. In the email, they outlined their yearning to become fathers. The pair went on to describe how, after a great deal of difficulty, they eventually had a child via surrogacy in Russia. And that is how I found myself on the doorstep of a well-groomed Northern beaches home in June 2010.

As a reporter, you develop a pretty well-honed bullshit detector. It comes with the territory. We work at a furious pace to rolling, incessant deadlines. Often you have to turn up and make a snap judgement. We do our research but we don't have the luxury or the ability to background check every Mum or Dad we speak to. Gut instincts are important.

I can honestly say to you that when I met Newton, Truong and Boy 1 nothing appeared to be amiss.

It was a modern house with an off-white exterior. The gardens were manicured and a shiny child's bike lay on its side in the front yard.

Newton was a tall Caucasian with a receding hairline, blue eyes and a strong American accent. Truong was Vietnamese-Australian and much shorter in stature. He had thick black hair, a round face and a wide, toothy smile. The two men welcomed me into their home with a firm handshake.

Just like the outside of their house, the inside was immaculate. The family room was light and airy. Boy 1's toys were neatly stacked away and his name was written on the wall in wooden letters.

I sat between Newton and Truong on their couch as they described how they initially tried to have a baby with a surrogate in the United States. According to the couple, they had many failed attempts and the cost was becoming prohibitive. The pair decided to try Russia as a cheaper alternative.

Newton and Truong told me the Russian surrogate mother they had chosen got pregnant almost immediately via artificial insemination with Mark's sperm. It now looks likely that this is untrue. Authorities in the US believe Boy 1 was purchased from his Russian mother for $US8,000 and is not a blood relative of either man.

Like any five-year-old, Boy 1 was shy at first. After a while he opened up. He smiled and chatted and urged me to come and see his baby chickens. This is the moment that plays over and over in my mind like a home movie: the four of us are in the yard - the chicks cheeping loudly and running loose.

We chat about the chicks. Truong and Boy 1 are trying to catch a couple of them, with some trouble. Truong asks Boy 1 if he's fed the chicks today. Boy 1 says no. Truong tells him they would surely be very hungry by now. I ask Boy 1 if the particular chicken he has managed to catch has a name. Boy 1 replies that he hasn't figured out names yet but he might call this one "Fasty" – presumably because it is hard to catch. Newton agrees that this chick is indeed fast.

In retrospect the conversation was remarkable purely because of its ordinariness.

I snap several pictures of Boy 1 holding a baby chick up under his chin. He stands in between his two fathers. All three of them are smiling.

At the time I thought this photo was so sweet; it featured on the front page of my gender project's web page on the ABC. Now there's a sinister edge to it. This is the photo news organisations all over the world have published and re-published, with Boy 1's face blurred out to protect his identity.

There's another piece of my 2010 experience which is strange in retrospect, but for a totally different reason. Newton and Truong explained to me at length that it was difficult to get Boy 1 into Australia. They told me Australian customs quizzed them for hours at the airport.

At a later date, police were checking whether the couple had suitable equipment to raise a child: a bed, clothes and bottles.

At this point in the interview I said:

"Do you think that there was a suspicion there…[that] this must be something dodgy? There must be some paedophilic thing going on here?"

Newton replied: "Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm sure that was completely the concern".

My recollection of this moment was that both Newton and Truong were smiling at the absurdity of the idea they might somehow be suspect of something. Did these two smiles signify how uncomfortably close to the truth I was? Or were the smiles simply brazenness? I will never know.

"We're a family just like any other family," Newton said a few moments later.

Video: Disturbing child abuse case links Australians to paedophile ring (7.30)

When newspapers reported Newton and Truong were arrested in February 2012, my stomach sank. The pair were being investigated by the United States Postal Inspection Service and the Queensland Police as possible members of an international paedophile ring.

In my mind, I pictured Boy 1's angelic face. I hoped it wasn't true but suspected it probably was. Why would international policing agencies be cooperating on a case like this unless they had strong evidence?

Even so, the news that 42-year-old Newton was sentenced to 40 years in prison in a US Court after pleading guilty to conspiring to sexually exploit a child, Boy 1, and another count for conspiring to possess child pornography, came with a blow. Truong has also pleaded guilty and will be sentenced later this year for his crimes.

I have a deep sense of grief for Boy 1. From when he was just two weeks old, these animals sexually abused him. It's hard to think about or imagine the daily horror he endured. US authorities are understandably cagey about what has happened to him since his "dads" were arrested. After everything that has happened to Boy 1, it's important he's protected. The ABC has simply been told Boy 1 is "safe".

"Being a father was an honour and a privilege that amounted to the best six years of my life," Newton reportedly told the court minutes before his sentence was announced.

When reading this, I felt dizzy with anger. A pure rage that made my face burn. The word "privilege" implanted itself in my brain as if it had talons. I momentarily wished to stand before Newton and Truong and say this:

Being a parent is the most profound privilege that exists. Your only job is to love that child and keep him or her safe. Instead you have systematically perpetrated heinous sex crimes against your child since he was a baby. It is sickening and it is unforgiveable. What will become of your child after what you have done? Did you think about that?

Since Newton's sentencing, I have been subject to an orchestrated online hate campaign from people calling themselves conservatives, mostly based in the United States. Much of it is ranting and raving.

Closer to home the ABC has also received complaints about the radio and online story I did in 2010. (You will not find that story on the ABC's website now because the police requested the ABC pull it down to protect Boy 1's identity.)

It's hard to sift through the online rage and work out exactly what people are angry with me about. But I did find this anonymous quote on the web:

I think you'll find our beef with Ginger is the same beef we have with the whole pro-homosexual agenda. They are willing to turn a blind eye to the slippery slippery [sic] slopes of this obscene lifestyle and pretend that it's all so normal... Hate speech warning - a child deserves to have a mother and father (preferably biological).

And that's what the anger with me seems to come down to. Homophobia.

One of the real tragedies is that this abhorrent paedophilia has been linked to gay people. This current story is not a story about being gay. It's a story about two sexual predators who systematically abused their adopted son.

People who abuse children come in all shapes and sizes. They are gay, they are straight. They are everything in between. The only label you can possibly categorise them with is 'evil'.

Some of the hateful tweets and blog posts have questioned my journalistic integrity and accused me of assisting these paedophiles. My story went to air in July 2010. It was not until August 2011 that Newton and Truong came to the attention of New Zealand police. Until now, neither Newton or Truong had prior convictions. Unless you frequented paedophilic chat rooms online, there was no way to know that Newton and Truong weren't the pair of loving dads they presented themselves as.

When Caro Meldrum-Hanna's report on this story went to air on ABC TV's 730 program on Tuesday July 2, a friend of mine in Melbourne sent me a text message. "Wow. They look so normal", he wrote of Newton and Truong. And that's the uncomfortable truth about a case like this: hateful crimes can be done by people who look just like you and me.

For me, there is another truth to be salvaged from this quagmire. If I went back to June 2010 and I was faced with the same situation, would I do anything differently?

The answer is no, I wouldn't. ABC Local Radio has 60 stations and across the country we do thousands of interviews a month. We are forced to take people at face value. If we didn't, our radio programs wouldn't go to air.

In my 10 years with the ABC this is the first time something like this has happened to me. Yes, it's horrifying. Yes, I have been awake at night in darkness and despair thinking about the plight of Boy 1. But despite everything, I refuse to lose faith in humanity. I choose to believe that evil people are rare. Good, honest people on the other hand are not. Most of us are simply going about our daily lives as best as we can and, more often than you might think, we have an important story to tell.

Ginger Gorman is a Canberra-based presenter and reporter with the ABC. View her full profile here.

Topics: sexual-offences, sexuality, journalism

First posted July 10, 2013 09:38:36

Comments (318)

Comments for this story are closed.

Carl:

10 Jul 2013 10:14:21am

Ginger, don't listen to the haters. Paedophiles are very skilled at hiding in plan sight and often even their own families don't know about their true nature.

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- Another Aussie:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:56:44pm
  
  Carl, it was Ginger who decided to 'talk up' the concept of this child being denied the right of having a mum.
  
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  - whogoesthere:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:26:35pm
    
    Completely beside the point. Children most need a stable, loving home and safe environment.
    
    Plenty of mothers abuse children, or allow them to be abused by others. When a friend of mine was a child she was repeatedly raped by her brother, and her mother's 'boyfriends' and was she told 'asked for it', and to shut up and not make a fuss.
    
    Another friend was raised by her father when the mother ran off. She is happy and well adjusted.
    
    Just anecdotes, sure. But having a mum is not a the be all and end all. Loving, stable, safe homes I think are what is most important.
    
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  - Tassie1969:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:54:03pm
    
    Carl is correct. I have experienced betrayal by my closest male friend, who was jailed as a paedophile for sexually abusing his young male children. It has taken me a while to work through the feelings of guilt and the thoughts of wondering why couldn't I see it.
    The more we talk about these issues and tackle them head on, the better for all involved.
    And I have learnt, don't ever be afraid to ask the hard questions. Of anyone. IT really does take a community to raise a healthy child.
    
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  - Monty B:
    
    10 Jul 2013 4:58:38pm
    
    Children with Mums do not get abused?
    
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  - Minz:
    
    10 Jul 2013 7:25:48pm
    
    I can understand your confusion, Aussie, but having a mum is a biological necessity, not a right.
    
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  - Wayne:
    
    10 Jul 2013 9:50:00pm
    
    I notice "Another Aussie" that you mentioned nothing about the young child who was sexually abused by, and then prostituted by his so-called loving gay parents. What say you to that? I have nothing against gay/lesbian parents, but if they sexually abuse and then prostitute their children, then I have a serious problem with that!!!
    
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  - John:
    
    10 Jul 2013 10:12:29pm
    
    @Another Aussie.
    Mate, I'm straight and atheist. My sister is and her partner are both gay and catholic. Their boys, 2 twins and a baby, are the most loved, well adjusted, polite children you could find. They don't crave father figures because they have 4 uncles, a grandfather, and a whole bunch of extended family they can be with.
    
    My point is, whenever I hear a person complain about the "lack" of male and female figures in a child's life, my mind boggles. My dad died when I was pretty young. So my nephews, without a "dad", have a far better father figures than I ever did.
    
    What children need is love. Whether that's one parent, two, grandparents, foster parents. Just love and gentle discipline and understanding, and the kids will be fine.
    
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  - Johnnie:
    
    11 Jul 2013 8:38:46am
    
    Another Aussie, I have been involved in the processing of income support payments for vulnerable child aged under 16 for many years now and let me assure you, the number of mums out there who neglect or abuse their children is far, far higher than same-sex couples. I certainly don't tar all straight parents with the same brush and you should do the same in not equating all same-sex parents with pedophiles.
    
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- mikes:
  
  11 Jul 2013 7:38:35am
  
  Carl's right, some predators can be very skilled chameleons. Add to that the fact that our society is making it unacceptable to hold and voice opinions like 'sexual diversion begets sexual diversion', and you end up with an innocent child in a pit with starved wolves. So Ginger you're not to blame, all of us had a hand in this child's torture. However your conclusion that the only problem people have with the situation is homophobic based is wrong and perpetuates the circumstances that made the tragedy possible.
  Best possible scenario for a child is a mother and father who care for and love them and each other. Sexual complementarity rather than diversion is the safest path for a child, and who in their right mind would defend an adults interests ('i just want to be a sexually deviant daddy') when they place a child in a situation of higher risk.
  
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Clownfish:

10 Jul 2013 10:15:08am

While there will no doubt be those who will accuse the author of some sort of ideologically-fuelled wilful blindness, the truth is that we see again and again how such criminals are able to successfully hoodwink even the people who know them best. One need only think of Ariel Castro, or even Ted Bundy and Ed Gein.

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- Mark:
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:06:01pm
  
  "those who will accuse the author of some sort of ideologically-fuelled wilful blindness"
  Of course not, because that doesn't describe the left AT ALL-LOL! I thought our "superior" "big brained" leftists couldn't possibly be outwitted....except those ideologically driven, willfully ignorant, stick-your-fingers-in-your-ears-and-shout-la la la-addlepates who have an aversion to reality and commonsense. Good luck with that.
  
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  - Neil:
    
    10 Jul 2013 10:15:58pm
    
    How does politics come into this? Why is it that you resorted to vitriolic, hate-filled political rhetoric for no reason? You wouldn't say those things to the author's face, so please don't say them from the safe anonymity of the internet.
    
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DM:

10 Jul 2013 10:25:08am

This is a terrible story, and having had some interaction with these people I can understand you probably feel some responsibility and/or guilt.

The initial premise of interviewing a couple of gay men wanting to parent and finding it difficult seems very reasonable. I think it's unlikely that any background check of yours would have unearthed a paedophile ring that took intenational co-operation to break.

Hopefully your journalistic senses will have been honed by this experience. Better luck in your future.

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Mallick:

10 Jul 2013 10:25:09am

What a terrible story. So very shocking and sad. But it is not the journalist's fault. There have been similar stories about birth parents - a mum and dad - both biological - abusing their children and killing them. There are uncles, grandfathers, mothers, aunts, cousins who see not a child to be protected loved and nurtured but an object to take out their frustrations and hatred on. I cannot accept that paedophiles 'love' children. Whatever is going on with them; it is not love. Of interest is that these men voluntarily put themselves up for interview and inspection and publicity. It is a pity perhaps that the journalist did not think to contact the customs to ask if 'hours' of interrogation was normal and similarly police follow up. That was something the journalist could have done differently - not been so willing to accept the mens' interpretation of the questioning at face value.

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- OUB :
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:46:10pm
  
  I can't imagine Customs would be too forthcoming if a journo or anyone approached them for such details. There would presumably be privacy issues.
  
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  - Mark:
    
    10 Jul 2013 8:42:35pm
    
    OUB, that doesn't mean that a journalist can't make enquiries, and report the fact that they made those enquiries, and the result. Due diligence, something more journalists need to do. The trouble with going into a story with a subjective purpose is that you will most likely come out the other end with a story that fails to take into account basic checks that an objective approach would be more likely to do. If Ginger is guilty of anything, it is an overly subjective approach on this story. She wouldn't be alone on this, journalism as an industry is poor when it comes to objectivity. The best response any journalist can have to being subjected to the highly subjective hate mail of certain members of the public is to get out there and demonstrate how to be properly objective.
    
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din:

10 Jul 2013 10:34:50am

i agree

just because two paedophiles molested a child in their care is no reason to ban all same sex couples from adopting children.

we need to treat all cases on their merit, and ensure that all parents have the support they need to raise their children

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- Another Aussie:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:35:55pm
  
  But there is no merit in deliberately denying a child a mum.
  
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  - missminute:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:15:38pm
    
    There is also no merit of denying a child a loving home. You'd rather a child grow up in an orphanage than have two loving dads?
    
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  - Evolve:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:28:01pm
    
    The crux of your argument seems to be that if a child has a mum all problems dissolve. Did you read the article? It seems as though mum sold the child outright to the men.
    
    Women aren't superhuman, and I say this as a woman who doesn't want children who has a father who was as loving and nourishing as my mother was. Your genitalia doesn't define how good a parent you can be.
    
    All children deserve loving parents, and I condemn these two men, but saying things would be different if a mum was around makes a pretty unconvincing argument considering how married heterosexual couples do this to their children as well.
    
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  - Alza:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:31:05pm
    
    Boy 1 did have a Mum - she sold him for $8,000
    
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  - Urien Rakarth:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:42:34pm
    
    A gay couple is in no way equivalent to a child being denied a mother. If you can prove that a child is less happy with a gay couple than it would be with a different sex couple you might have a point, but there's nothing to say that you are correct. Given the number of females actively (sometimes murdering) harming their children, you could say with some validity that there is no merit in denying a child two dads or two mothers.
    
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  - JoeBloggs:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:43:38pm
    
    There isn't a lot of merit in a childs mother withholding life saving medical treatment from their child due to their religious beliefs either.
    
    and that occurs too.....
    
    The sex of the childs parent doesn't have any real bearing on whether the child will be raised perfectly or not. It comes down to the individual concerned.
    
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  - James :
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:49:28pm
    
    a good friend of mine, a child psychiatrist, once told me that there i nothing more tragic than an unloved child. in the case of this child it was even worse, he was unloved and abused. but if two women or two men love a child, then the child is being denied nothing.
    
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  - ThatFlemingGent:
    
    10 Jul 2013 4:22:08pm
    
    Would you say that to the single dads out there? Your basic reasoning is specious - and that's being generous.
    
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  - Aussie Teen:
    
    10 Jul 2013 4:44:33pm
    
    Having a mum isn't necessary. My father does a wonderful job on his own since my mother died when I was young.
    If only one father can raise four smart, well-adjusted kids, there's no reason two fathers shouldn't be able to raise children, too.
    
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  - cindel:
    
    10 Jul 2013 5:42:39pm
    
    All a "Mum" is, is a female parent. A man can fulfil every role of a female parent (except maybe breastfeeding) just as a woman can fulfil every role of a male parent. You're stuck in this small world where you pidgeon-hole people into male and female roles and think only men or only women are capable of being a certain way.
    
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    - mikes:
      
      10 Jul 2013 11:19:46pm
      
      Just a quick news flash, males and females are different. Not just anatomically but emotionally, psychologically. To say that nothing is lost by not having an intimately concerned and attendant female influence (mother) around must come with either some serious omniscience or some serious personal agenda. The pigeon holes of which you speak are not defined by roles, rather the roles are a result of the male and female pigeon holes themselves.
      
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    - Arrakis:
      
      11 Jul 2013 8:02:55am
      
      Just a quick newsflash: the differences between men and women are far more superficial than you care to believe, and not all men and women pigeonhole themselves as you do.
      
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  - Bev:
    
    10 Jul 2013 7:30:21pm
    
    I agree but are mothers a protected species? Society routinely throw fathers out whether they are good or bad. We as a society don't even have a twinge about it.
    
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  - Tondon:
    
    11 Jul 2013 8:13:29am
    
    I don't think I need a PhD to state that males and females are different! Most married people will tell you their spouse's brain is wired differently to their own. I believe the best upbringing for a child is to be raised by a mother and father who honor marital vows and, love one another and love their children. Sure, others do a good job of raising children under less than ideal circumstances but we shouldn't lower the aim of what is the best start to life for a child.
    
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- Horrocks:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:27:19pm
  
  I agree, you only have to look at the stories that have been in the news recently about Kiesha amongst others. How what has happened to some children of late cannot make us seriously consider the death sentence for people that physically abuse children either sexually or kill them as in the other cases is beyond me. It would be cheaper in the long run given that they have to be kept in protective custody for the rest of their sorry lives.
  
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  - Lisa_W:
    
    11 Jul 2013 11:08:41am
    
    totally agree about death penalty. spend the money helping the victims of crime and perhaps periodic screening of all parents for the well being of children.
    
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zoe:

10 Jul 2013 10:37:56am

Nothing happened to you except a bit of verbal abuse. It all happened to boy 1 and the story is grotesque. I just ache for the horror he now has to live !!
I do agree with the comment a child should have a mother and father-- however-- child abuse happens in that dynamic as well. What to do???

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- Kassie:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:42:25pm
  
  Zoe, You have obviously been blessed with no sense of guilt... I know how she feels, she feels like if she had just known somehow she could have saved the child from that situation. Guilt is a terrible emotion to feel... But to Ginger, It's NOT your fault... And one case of "Gay" parents abusing a child does not amount to the hundreds of cases with straight parents every year.
  
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- MB:
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:51:42pm
  
  What to do?
  
  A huge question as we all know.
  
  For a start, listen. Give children safe spaces to be and to talk or otherwise communicate when they are ready. And be willing to actually hear what they tell you. And don't let assumptions of any kind cloud your vision.
  
  I know how difficult it is for observers to differentiate between a "safe" and a non-safe adult. As a toddler I was taken from my mother by my father. Ostensibly this was so I could be raised by a relatively financially secure "normal" straight family. However what actually happened is that my father and his father and some local paedophiles used me for their purposes for the next twelve years.
  
  I am authorised to say that, a significant (and loud) portion of you who have not lived this experience have an overwhelming tendency to silence us survivors whether you mean to or not, whether you think you do or not. There is so much talk about it, yet the minute we open our mouths to speak actual truth you shame us and shut us down and talk on and on as if you know something useful or at least as if you want to and you want to change this horrid state of affairs. Take it from me: listening to those of us who've lived it will get us a lot closer to solutions and healing the bodies, minds, hearts and spirits of little ones like "Boy 1".
  No, it's not easy. It's all extremely tricky. But there are some REALLY basic "no-brainer" things that could be done to make a start to redressing the vast amount of damage currently being done. (It's really NOT a rare occurrence).
  
  (BTW, my mother is a lesbian and finding my way back to her and her community was the only reason I'm still alive. I am sure you can appreciate that I for one have no sympathy for the notion that a child should have a father. Why should they?).
  
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Ted:

10 Jul 2013 10:42:08am

Ginger,
This is a very sad story all round and I sympathise with your situation. The internet makes bile too easy to pour on others.
When the terrible story of the two animals broke I couldn't read much of it as it revolted me so much.
I know gay parents who are every bit as fine parents as any others.
A current court case in Sydney where a poor little girl was bashed and basically left to die demonstrates that there are those who are sub-human, and it has nothing to do with their sexual preferences.

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- MJMI:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:00:27pm
  
  Yes the current case you refer to is also terrible to read. 33 reports in two and a half years and still the poor child was let die in the most dreadful circumstances. There are bad parents everywhere and still we go with the myth that children are better off with their natural parents.
  
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MJLC:

10 Jul 2013 10:45:30am

This is a very difficult article to respond to in an adequate, all-encompassing way. For what it's worth - which really isn't much, I'm not convinced that writing what amounts to a part personal apology, part self-justification (which, in my opinion, isn't warranted - Ms Gorman did nothing 'wrong' and doesn't need to beat herself up to the extent she is) and publishing it on this forum is something that doesn't sit overly comfortably with me. I accept that Ms Gorman means well - and clearly has a story worth telling, but I am left wondering whether the content here would perhaps not be better shared between one's own private thoughts, trusted friends and personal advisors, and the child himself when he is of an age to understand.

I don't, in any way, question Ms Gorman's motivations or sincerity - but I do query whether I needed to know about them in the format that they are presented. I freely acknowledge that amounts to nothing more than one person's unsolicited opinion. Others would, I'm sure, see it differently.

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- Albo:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:21:54pm
  
  Just a further exploitation of Boy 1, but now for an ideological stance as the article sums it all up with:
  
  "And that's what the anger with me seems to come down to. Homophobia."
  
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  - mikes:
    
    10 Jul 2013 11:26:28pm
    
    A stance which perpetuates the underlying conditions of the tragedy. Ironic.
    
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- betty:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:32:33pm
  
  I agree.
  
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- OUB :
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:02:56pm
  
  I suspect maintaining a dignified silence would only give licence to the haters (good honest folk of rural America?) to carry on. I would have thought some kind of background might calm them down a bit. Perhaps a brief follow up from Ginger at some stage will show whether it worked out that way or not.
  
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- Calianthoe:
  
  10 Jul 2013 7:54:23pm
  
  I do see it differently. This journalist has become the target of an international hate campaign. That's a terrifying thing to contemplate. It seems clear enough to me that she's trying to stem the tide of evil communications she's been receiving. I see no other apparent motive in her article.
  
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Gaylene:

10 Jul 2013 10:45:42am

Thank you; this shows exactly how the ABC gets it wrong.
Using labels it finds PC subjects to explain all sorts of activity, blaming the PC label for the cause.
The world is far more complex and because someone has suffered or has caused suffering has little if anything to do with a PC correct label.
We all fall into this trap but I a m not government supported. Therein lies the ABC problem plus the lack of sophistication.

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- Polly Prissypants:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:53:56pm
  
  I don't even understand what your point is. Could you explain yourself more clearly instead of just making vague swipes at 'PC labels' and ABC?
  
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- Lesley:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:16:38pm
  
  Gaylene
  
  Perhaps your criticism is best aimed at all media? When it comes to incorrectly allocating causes and effects, surely there are many mainstream agencies to which this comment applies?
  
  Personally, I find the ABC more trustworthy than other mainstream media outlets.
  
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  - Gaylene:
    
    10 Jul 2013 7:48:48pm
    
    Lesley I agree but we don't pay for them.
    
    Alert moderator
Mike:

10 Jul 2013 10:52:07am

I disagree with same sex couples having children. To me it is wrong. No thought it seems is given to the child and what they will suffer. I wouldn't want to have two dads and go through school. No way. It's selfish of these people to only think of themselves, and to put themselves first, and what they want first. It could very well be devastating for a child to have two dads. But we will see it portrayed as the norm on our televisions and in the media. We lose the plot. Until we stop giving people what they want because they want it, with no regard for anyone else, particularly children, we are in all sorts of trouble. At one stage, three of my females friends were all on IVF, and all were single. That is wrong to me. It should take a loving couple to have a child, not a tube that maybe can eventually be bought at Coles in the future the way we head. Check the fatherless statistics. All are shocking. We lose the plot.

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- Jade:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:41:18pm
  
  I'm sure that most children adopted by same-sex couples (this example notwithstanding) will suffer a lot less with two loving parents, regardless of their gender, than those left to languish and age out of the foster care system.
  
  I get really sick and tired of people who complain long and loud that a child needs a mother and a father, yet when asked whether they would be willing to adopt a child, rather than have one of their own, refuse because they want a child that's "theirs". Disgusting hypocrisy.
  
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  - John:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:31:55pm
    
    That comment is not supported by the facts, Jade.
    
    There is an enormous imbalance between childless couples who wish to adopt and children and babies availabvle for adoption. The waiting time is many, many years.
    
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  - James Murphy:
    
    10 Jul 2013 5:40:20pm
    
    On one side, there's an over-simplified argument that children apparently need a mother and a father to be "normal", and on the other side, there's always an intimation (which you appear to be perpetuating) that same sex couples would make far superior parents compared to hetero couples.
    
    I think both arguments are heavily biased in their own way.
    
    You seem to think that adopting a child is a pure and selfless act of goodwill, when, in reality, it may not be the case. People want children for many reasons, some of them selfish, some not, and people want to be biological parents for many reasons, some of them selfish, and some not. You demand logic and level-headed thinking about a highly emotive topic, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find it, especially from the loudest talkers on both sides of the argument.
    
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  - Bev:
    
    10 Jul 2013 7:35:05pm
    
    For most same sex couple at least one parent is biological. So as far as possible they want "theirs". Totally normal for the absolute majority of people to want their own children.
    
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- Bec:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:45:13pm
  
  Did you ever think that homophobic discrimination is what makes it torturous for kids in school who come from same sex households? Children are taught to discriminate, and rather than curtailing the legal rights of citizens to have their own families, perhaps it would be better to protect the rights of ALL children to be safe from bullying and respected when they are in our community and at school. The problem is not the victim.
  
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  - JoeBloggs:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:45:55pm
    
    Great point Bec.
    
    The hatred of others who have an irrelevant distinction is a taught behaviour, not one that people develop naturally.
    
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    - Mike:
      
      10 Jul 2013 7:39:09pm
      
      I agree that it is learned. But it will never be the norm, and when they are young they are merciless. It would be a great stress for a child, particularly a boy. And not a case where pressure makes diamonds. I think a case of pressure destroying and doing great damage.
      
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    - Arrakis:
      
      11 Jul 2013 8:08:01am
      
      Racism may never be fully extinguished - should we discourage all mixed-race couples from having children too, in case they get bullied at school?
      
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    - Mike:
      
      11 Jul 2013 9:19:36am
      
      This is different. This is a boy having two gay fathers. We give this boy a lifetime of pain and stress. That's of course if he can survive school. As a child there is no way I would have befriended a boy with gay fathers. These are children! They do not have the compassion and caring that you and I have! They are relentlessly cruel! To provide a boy with two gay fathers is simply unforgiveable to me. How anyone could even consider doing that to a boy is beyond me!
      
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    - no:
      
      11 Jul 2013 8:31:36am
      
      Your argument that something has to be the norm before people will stop being vilified for it is one that i can not accept.
      
      We as a society are capable of accepting difference; We are not all as intolerant as yourself.
      
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    - Mike:
      
      11 Jul 2013 9:14:08am
      
      I didn't say, "that something has to be the norm before people will stop being vilified for it". Read what I said again!
      
      And I am not intolerant either. Where did you get that from? I stand up for the poor boy who gets a life of torture handed to him by those who couldn't care less. By those who care for the adults more. To make sure the adults get what they want, at any cost. Disgraceful to me.
      
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    - JoeBloggs:
      
      11 Jul 2013 10:57:41am
      
      Mike you say "I agree that it is learned"
      
      So.... don't teach your children that it (whatever it may be) is abnormal.
      
      If you don't teach them that it is abnormal then it will be the 'norm'.
      
      Just as we don't teach our children someone should be singled out for having one leg, red hair, or an ugly face. Homosexuality is just another utterly irrelevant distinction.
      
      It is you and your teachings/opinions that is the sole cause of any pressure and damage.
      
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  - Penny:
    
    10 Jul 2013 4:18:09pm
    
    So when you say "legal rights of citizens to have their own families" you mean go to a foreign country and buy a child.
    How about the rights of a child not be a simple commodity that can be bought and sold???
    
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    - Bec:
      
      10 Jul 2013 9:58:42pm
      
      The illegal adoption of Boy 1 in this article did not happen in Australia if you read the article. Currently, surrogacy for cash is illegal here. I was discussing adoption and other fertility options which are perfectly legal for homosexuals to access. I have also known many gay and lesbian friends with children from previous hetero relationships. There is nothing illegal about this is there?
      
      The point I commented on was about discrimination against children of gay parents in schools, and you have speciously assumed that I approve of a black market trade in children. Sorry, but you are way off.
      
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    - Closet Romantic:
      
      11 Jul 2013 8:00:58am
      
      Hi Penny
      
      The problem is that many people want to conflate homosexuality and peadophilia they are not the same thing at all and these two men used false colors to hide their crime, its the same as trying to conflate Islam and terrorism people are actively forgetting Beider Meinhoff, the IRA, the Basque separatist movement, the Tamil Tigers etc. when it fits an agenda people will use limited facts.
      
      I agree that the rights of a child to a safe and loving home are paramount and that is why the law once it discovered the abuse stepped in when it found evidence of crime, and we do need to have a discussion of how we make sure all children are safe, but the law as it stands can only punish crime it lacks the foresight to see who is and who is not a decent parent.
      
      If you want a society where the law can predict crime I recommend the Sci Fi movie and book Minority Report.
      
      If you are religious god itself does not make sure that every child has a mother and a father circumstances in the real world find many children without one or both parents we are animals and the generation of life requires both sets of gametes the raising, nurturing and education of that life does not.
      
      If you want too see a positive example of gay male parents I suggest you watch Gay Family Values on YouTube this family are the grand marshals in the San Francisco Gay pride parade.
      
      The children that they have adopted come from a home with a mother and a father but the home was so damaged by drugs, violence, prostitution etc. that the children had to be removed for their safety and well being.
      
      The rights of children are defended and maintained by adults regardless of gender or sexual orientation who believe that sex is between consenting adult partners.
      
      Loving homes and nurturing environments are built by loving adults who nurture and protect children regardless of whether they are a nixed gendered couple or something else.
      
      Remember their are a lot of different cultures in the world in some cultures the male parenting role is undertaken by the brother of the mother not the biological father of the child, some cultures do not have a nuclear family as the norm but an extended family as the norm where all the family members take care of the children. Some cultures practice polygamy and that was often the norm in ancient societies where families had multiple members of one of the genders.
      
      I love the saying it takes a village to raise a child and .i really want children to be safe in the village.
      
      The new theory on menopause for example is that it protected the health of older women allowing them to co parent their grand children and great grand children which increased the survival rates.
      
      The nuclear family is a relatively modern concept.
      
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  - Jade:
    
    11 Jul 2013 10:05:01am
    
    Oh Bec - you're so thoughtful and concerned for the rights of children.
    
    Seeing as most children experience bullying at some point during their school lives, I suppose you think we should ban everyone from having children. You know, to protect these children from the evidently far too significant emotional trauma of bullying?
    
    Or, you know, we could simply put better anti-bullying measures in place in schools.
    
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- Polly Prissypants:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:54:41pm
  
  Well, it's all about you and what you want, isn't it Mike?
  
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- JRM:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:16:12pm
  
  Good stuff Mike. I suggested same as you once. And of course - one of the same sex couples types wrote i and said his and his partners children were fine
  
  Like the kids could complain to Dad ?
  
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  - Minz:
    
    10 Jul 2013 7:37:40pm
    
    Right, because children have never complained to dads about anything. Really?
    
    The reasonable evidence (and there is a lot out there) suggests that children of single-sex couples do fine. The one thing that was interesting out of those studies was that those children were more likely to act on homosexual desires (not more likely to have them, just more likely to act), which is only a negative if you're of a biased mindset.
    
    On the other hand, the vast majority of the studies or commentators which say there are negative effects from being raised by a homosexual couple are either clearly biased or show large methodological flaws which indicate bias. And yes, I have gone through and read many of them.
    
    In the end, it seems that what defines children's outcomes is a loving family, rather than any particular family make up (single parent, homosexual, heterosexual etc).
    
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- JoeBloggs:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:19:33pm
  
  "Until we stop giving people what they want because they want it, with no regard for anyone else, we are in all sorts of trouble."
  
  You mean like banning same sex marriage and same sex couples from having children because some people want them to live without the benefits of marriage and want them to be childless?
  
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  - Mike:
    
    10 Jul 2013 7:51:04pm
    
    I never said banning same sex marriage. And I never said because I "want" them to go childless. It is unfortunate but that's life. We cannot compromise a child's well being and future by accommodating adults and what they want. It is wrong. We need to think of the child, not the adults.
    
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    - JoeBloggs:
      
      11 Jul 2013 11:04:52am
      
      Mike,
      
      So you think "it is wrong" for a child to be raised in a loving household then? Why should a child be forced to live in an orphanage just because you personally don't want that child to be raised in a loving household. Surely you aren't suggesting that people in a same sex relationship, divorced, solo, widowed etc are unable to raise a child in a loving household are you?
      
      Why should we accomodate your adult wants when the right of a child to be raised in a loving household should be paramount?
      
      It is clear you couldn't care less about what is best for a child languishing in an orphanage, and that you are only concerned about satisfying your selfish desires to prevent other people from having children if they happen to have some irrelevant distinction.
      
      ps. It is you who is suggesting that same sex couples should be childless because they may not be able to naturally conceive. Does your bigotry extend to hetrosexual couples who are not able to naturally conceive?
      
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- Will:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:29:13pm
  
  Mike, with all due respect that is simply your prejudices coming through. I had a mother and father and the family environment was abusive and violent. It is not about the gender of the parent but the love, care and support provided by the parent.
  
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  - Mike:
    
    10 Jul 2013 7:59:34pm
    
    No, these are not prejudices. I find that response offensive. I am not homophobic. This has nothing to do with same sex partnerships. It has much to do with priorities, sensibilities, and empathy.
    
    Alert moderator
    - Polly Hannah:
      
      11 Jul 2013 11:10:23am
      
      But you failed to address Will's point about coming from an abusive heterosexual nuclear family.
      
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- SteveC:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:50:49pm
  
  Mike, you have hit the nail on the head and congratulations for having the courage to say it. In this sick society one gets almost overwhelmed by the "straight" haters. It's almost like how dare we have an opinion! Having an opinion does NOT amount to discrimination or homophobia.
  The lifestyle is not and never will be a part of normal design. Wake up people........
  
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  - tc21:
    
    10 Jul 2013 9:38:39pm
    
    It may not be your 'normal' but it is the 'normal' existence for millions of people born with same sex attraction around the world. We are all equal, we are all born the way we are born. Why can't we live and let live? Yes there are some horrible adults out there, straight, gay, black, white, man, woman, don't tar everyone with the same brush.
    
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- Applaudanum:
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:32:42pm
  
  "No thought it seems is given to the child and what they will suffer"
  
  Suffer at the hands of whom? Schoolyard bullies? Only when all children are raised to respect others regardless of their backgrounds and home life will that kind of suffering be eradicated. It's up to the people in charge of raising children to uphold and maintain that standard. Why is it so difficult for them to do so, thus propagating the suffering of innocents? No thought it seems is given to the suffering that some children will unleash.
  
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- Pegaso:
  
  10 Jul 2013 7:09:01pm
  
  Mike what happens when a hetrosexual marriage breaks down and the children of that marriage end up with same sex parents? It isnt uncommon.
  
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  - mikes:
    
    10 Jul 2013 11:28:13pm
    
    That is what we call 'tragic'.
    
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atomou:

10 Jul 2013 11:00:48am

Horrible stuff to have gone -and still going through- Ginger, for you and even more so for Boy 1.
It is OK though to not have faith in much of humanity. Some of it is faith-worthy, some of the time and the rest is totally unworthy all of the time.
It's ok to lose faith in some of the 7 odd billion humans and to walk among them with great care.

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peter of mitcham:

10 Jul 2013 11:01:31am

Don't beat yourself up, Ginger. I was a child protection worker and paedophiles are the most charming, disarming and reassuring people on the planet. Lots of people get taken in by them. Ginger, no-one's got x-ray eyes. From my work in the child protection and probation system I can assure you, and those who ignorantly put you down, that paedophiles would do anything to get access to a child. If they have to maintain a long hetero or homosexual relationship, they'll do it. Such mania is buried deep and they hide it well. Paedophiles are never safe until they're deceased and they can go on hurting even after that. It hurts me to say this but children get abused because they are small, helpless and dependent on adults for their survival. Paedophiles abuse children and other people because they have cavernous gaps in their makeups and will never, ever be safe to be in society. You're already doing great work by writing this article, Ginger.

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Steve:

10 Jul 2013 11:01:38am

It is disgusting that you threw opinionated gay rights propaganda into a very serious story. And then topped it off with a lie.

To quote the article 'They are not equal. That's not just my opinion'

Why did you lie in your article?

How are your gay friends not treated the same as everyone else?

Do they announce they are gay at the beginning of every conversation to be different and then complain that they are different?

Are they wearing the wrong genders attire in public?

How do people know they are gay to even begin to treat them differently?

Do your gay friends know what it's like to be and be treated as a straight person?
If being gay is not a choice - they have no experiences to compare their treatment to.

So it seems that IT IS your opinion that your gay friends are treated differently.
No one can look at another person and magically know what they do in their bedroom.

Not only is it only your opinion - it is also a lie.

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- Nup:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:32:41pm
  
  As Ginger mentioned, the statistics show that homosexual people are more likely to be subjected to violence, be homeless, and experience mental and physical health problems. If that isn't discrimination, I don't know what is!
  
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  - Greymalkin:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:25:37pm
    
    You might want to look at some other statistics of things that are more prevalent amongst the gay community too.
    
    Also considering the stats you present are true, exactly which of them are promoting it as a positive environment to raise a child.
    
    Sure it can be done, and no doubt done better than many hetero couples but statistics don't have a bias, even if it were an original bias which lead to the circumstances of creating those statistics.
    
    Until you invent a time machine and make history all fluffy and cuddly forever, reality is what it is, not what you want it to be, and we have to deal with what is.
    
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- Jade:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:44:47pm
  
  I can affirm, as a straight person, that my gay friends are treated differently. By the law, as well as by many in society. The uncomfortable silence that occurs after Joan mentions her partner Jane, and the intrusive and uncomfortable questions that ensue in most circumstances, but never when I mention my opposite-sex partner by name is just one example.
  
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  - Sue:
    
    10 Jul 2013 6:24:28pm
    
    Agree Jade. This is a conversation that needs to be had though. Ginger has a right of reply to the homophobic conservatives. They are hopefully the noisy minority. We need to have an open forum without abuse. Unfortunately though the abusers just can't help themselves and don't understand what a public debate is.
    
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- Michael:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:04:30pm
  
  People make assumtions and then act on those assumtions and that is discrimination.
  
  If they hold hands in public people may assume they are gay and if they are treated differently because of that then that is discrimination.
  
  You don't need to have first hand experiance of being treated in some way to be able to know that you are being treated differently.
  
  There could be a social gathering where no one knows or thinks they are gay, then the next social gathering they hold hands or cuddle each other like couples do and they find they are treated differently. That's discrimination.
  
  I find it repugnant that you attack her from the first word in your response and don't even give an oppertunity for a response.
  
  To start with this attack "It is disgusting that you threw opinionated gay rights propaganda..."
  Or to phrase questions like this, "Do they announce they are gay at the beginning of every conversation to be different and then complain that they are different?" shows you yourself have a bias and are not treating them OR her the same.
  
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- Katarena:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:42:30pm
  
  Can you please explain how clothing has a "wrong" gender? If I, as a woman, went out and bought a well-fitting mens suit, I'd probably look chic, but there'd be no comment that I'm doing something "Wrong". on the other hand, if a man goes and buys a ballgown, everyone loses their minds.
  
  Also, you're wrong. Completely wrong. It's not a lie that gay people are treated differently. There are homophobic acts committed everywhere. Couples in a same sex relationship find adoption harder than a couple in a heterosexual relationship.
  
  Same sex couples are not allowed to get married. Another difference in treatment.
  
  Lastly, if there were no difference in treatment this entire issue wouldn't be discussed, would it?
  
  Face it, you're that far jaded over people wanting basic social rights for *everyone* that you've wound up going full 360 and landed yourself in a giant puddle of ignorance. Good work.
  
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- ajay:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:57:58pm
  
  Steve, I read your email and I shake my head. I am not gay by the way but I see what you call a lie in the workplace, in my own family (as haters not victims) and in the broader community with monotonous regularity. Just because you either cannot see it or because you refuse to see it doesn't make it a lie. What happened to this child is truly dispicable but is in no way a part of the gay community. I should know.
  
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- leafygreen:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:29:50pm
  
  Wow, such anger.
  
  Openly gay people ARE treated differently. Still. That is why many spent years 'in the closet' acting like everyone else around them so they didn't get 'found out' and get harassed (or worse).
  Society always offers plenty of examples of stereotyped 'straight' behaviour to copy so you do that and hope to pass under the radar. That is living a lie. It is stressful and it hurts.
  
  Openly gay does NOT mean using it as an intro line, or discussing what you do 'in the bedroom' it is about being with your partner in public and doing the things 'straight' couples often do (not all, just most) like holding hands, looking at each other with affection, shopping together, referring to your partner, being out with friends.. all the subtle things that give a couple away, without being singled out as noteworthy.
  
  And cross dressing is not an indicator of being gay. Neither ia a short haircut on a women or a man with a graceful walk.
  
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Harquebus:

10 Jul 2013 11:04:27am

Everyone makes mistakes. Only fools make the same mistake twice. Journalists are fooled by our politicians every day. You have a long way to go yet Ginger.

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- pjay:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:40:43pm
  
  are you serious Steve. Is that all you got out of this very sad story? What she is saying it that once people know you are gay, you get treated differently. To say this isn't the case is ridiculous.
  
  Have some sympathy for what she is going through.
  
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Erin:

10 Jul 2013 11:04:43am

I agree Ginger that it is so sad that this case has tarnished the many good gay parents out there, struggling to adopt or surrogate a child.

You must be very disturbed by your accidental involvement in such a heinous situation. Thank you for sharing what must have been difficult to re-live.

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Mole:

10 Jul 2013 11:05:20am

I have some sympathy for what you are going through, you misjudged 2 fairly slippery characters.

But you do seem to reveal you went to the story with a preconceived idea of what was right and wrong with the situation.
You appeared to have suspended your critical judgement, understandable if you had immersed yourself in the discrimination felt by LGBT people.
But it was still an error.

You are a convenient target for attack precisely because you made a huge error, indefensible in hindsight.
Best option is apologize, and even better one would be to track down the biological mother and do a story on how common baby-farming is, and is this a pure aberration (like you Id like to think this is extremely rare), or is it a horrible risk?

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Fudge:

10 Jul 2013 11:06:04am

It's difficult to understand, Ginger, why anyone would subject you to hate mail. Abusers such as these are notoriously good at putting on a good face and getting away with their crimes for a long time. It's happened time again in the church, in schools.

There is no way to spot a pedophile. If there was, well the world would be a great and glorious place.

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Dr Dig:

10 Jul 2013 11:06:47am

I am curious about your belief that paedophilia can not be linked to gay people. I don't know if it is or it isn't and would like to know of any research into that proposition.

I accept that being gay does not mean you are a paedophile, but then many paedophiles are gay. The one that abused me in my youth was gay and I also accept that could alter my perception. Is it something to do with their sexual preferences? If your gay and operating outside what is considered socially acceptable by many does that make you more likely to act on other sexual desires, such as paedophilia, which are not socially acceptable by many as well?

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- ThatFlemingGent:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:17:10pm
  
  "I am curious about your belief that paedophilia can not be linked to gay people. I don't know if it is or it isn't and would like to know of any research into that proposition. "
  
  Basic logic states that you cannot prove a negative.
  
  It is up to those who correlate homosexuality with paedophilia to provide scientifically verifiable and testable research-backed evidence to back up this claim.
  
  They have not been able to do so and I doubt they can.
  
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- frangipani:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:45:42pm
  
  The research I've read suggests that there are actually three basic sexual preferences - heterosexual, homosexual and pedophilia - most gays want sex with same sex adults, just as most straights want sex with opposite sex adults. Pedophiles aren't attracted to adults at all, only children - and that means the gay vs straight parallels are not especially meaningful. Pedophiles may well focus on boys, but identify as being straight when dealing with adults.
  
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  - Left As:
    
    11 Jul 2013 12:10:12am
    
    So where does the cross dressing family man and scoutmaster that used to touch up my older brother fit into your three classes of sexual preference ?
    
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- Lyndal:
  
  10 Jul 2013 5:15:48pm
  
  There's been attempts to study this scientifically but there are a lot of problems with it. The best thing I've ever read in an article is that paedophiles cannot be thought of as homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual in the usual sense, because they don't enter adult relationships. Instead it's about age preference. Even a man who thinks of himself as heterosexual could be attracted to young boys, not because of their gender but because of their age.
  I'm sorry about what you went through, and I understand why you might have this bias(which you pointed out yourself), but don't let that influence your perception too much.
  
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- rob1966:
  
  10 Jul 2013 10:22:49pm
  
  Actually there is quite a significant amount of research in this area, and it consistently shows that homosexuals are no more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals.
  
  Indeed, something like 97% of pedophiles identify as heterosexual.
  
  There is a very good summary of the research, and debunking of the lies spread by the anti-gay groups in the University of California (Davis) article "Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation" by Dr G. Herek
  
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Eaton's Wyong:

10 Jul 2013 11:06:49am

You know what the conservative would say...it isn't natural and in this case "they" would be correct?

We have a lesbian couple a couple of doors down with two children (their offspring?) and the kids are the happiest kids in the area.

I think "Gay Men" maybe should just stick to their other social outlets and leave parenting to women and heterosexual couples (to stuff kids up) it gives Gay Men the high moral ground...to some extent?

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mikc:

10 Jul 2013 11:11:02am

Well said! A very sad story & I have choked up.

The one positive in all this is that the boy is no longer subjected to abuse. Well done to the authorities who uncovered this & saved him.

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Sunray:

10 Jul 2013 11:12:49am

Thank you Ginger, however you are letting ideology cloud you thinking. To label the quote as homophobic just demonstrates your inability to think, and not feel, clearly and dispassionately. By the way, the term homophobic is an inaccurate and made up political statement, which has no place in rational discussion.

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- Bec:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:41:07pm
  
  To connect without any evidence, homosexuality and paedophilia is completely heinous. The quote assumes that homosexuality is a symptom of a moral lack which leads to all kinds of criminal and unethical behaviours. If that is not homophobic, then what is? Is it proven that only homosexuals are paedophiles? Are the majority of sex offenders gay? These claims are old propoganda against homosexuals, and are still in use by those who want society to actively discriminate and intimidate gay people.
  
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  - Penny:
    
    10 Jul 2013 4:58:16pm
    
    You seem to care more about gay rights than the rights of a child. It takes both a man and women to create a child and to raise a child. The child has a right to a Mum and Dad and not be sold for cash.
    
    Alert moderator
    - Minz:
      
      10 Jul 2013 7:50:08pm
      
      Well, you got the first bit right - it does (currently) take both a man and a woman to create a child. The second bit, well, I think I can help here - it does not, in reality, take both a woman and a man to raise a child. For many, many decades there have been parents, and even relatives, who have raised children on their own. These are known as "single parents".
      
      In fact, there have been many successful variants on the child-raising paradigm, including "it takes a village", large extended families under the one roof, being raised by grandparents (single or multiple), being raised by adoptive parents, the aforementioned single parents and, yes, both heterosexual and homosexual couples.
      
      Anyway, glad to help!
      
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    - Bec:
      
      10 Jul 2013 9:43:05pm
      
      No person born has a 'right' to anything. If we grow up with a loving family then we are lucky. If we have two loving parents, its a jackpot.
      
      I was raised by my mother and my grandmother. I don't feel that any of my human rights were infringed because one of these people did not have a penis.
      
      Surrogacy is a completely separate issue from gay parenting, and many straight couples participate in this too.
      
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    - Arrakis:
      
      11 Jul 2013 8:33:47am
      
      "It takes both a man and a woman to raise a child."
      
      Except for when it doesn't. There are children, perfectly happy children, who have been raised by two mums, or two dads, or no mum or no dad. They exist.
      
      Do you plan on initiating a crusade against all single mothers, or is it just the gays who deserve your ire for "denying children the right to a mum and dad?"
      
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  - mikes:
    
    10 Jul 2013 11:56:52pm
    
    The connection is sexual deviation and so the more heinous act would be to advocate for the adults in having a child live in a condition of known sexual deviation. Asking if a majority of sex offenders comes from a particularly small minority group is a little bit silly. The better question would be, as a ratio, is the occurrence of sexual violence, abuse, illness, drug abuse etc higher in this group? If it is even 1% higher, than it would be immoral and completely unjustifiable to ignore that risk.
    
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    - Ju-nip:
      
      11 Jul 2013 10:28:20am
      
      Using that same logic, if men are even 1% more likely to be sex offenders than women, should we prevent all men from raising children? What is your point?
      
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- lvc:
  
  11 Jul 2013 2:21:58am
  
  The quote implies that *all* gay people are paedophiles, and directly says that anyone who denies that is practicing wilful ignorance. It has an air of 'we knew, and you should have known, all along that these men were sexually abusing their child because they're two men in a relationship who have an adoptive child'. If that suggestion isn't homophobic, then what *is*?
  
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Another Aussie:

10 Jul 2013 11:14:36am

You're good at patting yourself on the back. That may be all that is important to your goodself.

But be assured that paedophiles do not and cannot fool lots of people. You fit into the category that they can.

Normal for a child is having a mother and father. Whilst Boy 1 has both he wasn't raised by both or even either parent. When will society drop the notion that homosexuals have a 'right' to adopt and/or raise children?

Journalist who believe homosexual parenting is a story just waiting to be told are a problem. I wouldn't listen to such rubbish on radio. Who would? I love children too much to see them as the subject of debate by people who select a particular lifestyle that excludes them from having their own children. Journalists shouldn't see themselves as change promoters or activists supporting deviate behaviour.

Ginger, you could have dropped any notion of airing your story before it was even recorded. But you chose to run with it.

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- Lyndal:
  
  10 Jul 2013 5:20:11pm
  
  You claim to love children, yet you discriminate against their families? And what about people who biologically cannot have their own children due to medical conditions etc? I guess they have no right to adopt either because kids should be raised by their biological parents?
  The only indicator of a child growing up well is if they have the love and support from their parents, whether it be their biological or adopted, straight or gay, single or in a relationship
  Hate like yours is doing more damage to this world than any gay relationship ever could.
  
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- Simon:
  
  11 Jul 2013 9:50:10am
  
  What do you mean, "do not and cannot fool" everybody? You think all paedophiles are greasy little men with comb-overs driving ice-cream vans? If you do, you're quite deluded. These people are often charming, outwardly-likeable people who work subtly to gain the trust of others. If you reckon you can easily pick them out of a crowd then join the police force and get cracking.
  Ginger shouldn't be attacked for airing the story. If Bolt aired a story about a respectable Conservative heterosexual family with strong Christian values, and years later found out the family was busted for raping their children or worse, I'm sure you wouldn't be attacking Bolt for running the story.
  
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Roger of Scoresby:

10 Jul 2013 11:15:43am

Non-biological fathers are 37 times more likely to sexually abuse children in their care. The maintenance of the traditional family unit is the single most important factor protecting a child from sexual abuse.

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- Michael:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:48:54pm
  
  Except for you know the fact that the most likely person to sexually assault a child is a family member....
  
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  - lisadp:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:41:45pm
    
    It will sound like I'm backing the wrong horse but this is a poor rebuttal. A non-biological father is a "family member" after all. Yours and Roger's comments can co-exist peacefully!
    
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  - SueB:
    
    10 Jul 2013 3:52:59pm
    
    Isn't a step-dad a family member?
    
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  - Applaudanum:
    
    10 Jul 2013 4:36:46pm
    
    Aren't non-biological fathers family members?
    
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  - Bev:
    
    10 Jul 2013 7:25:25pm
    
    A family member perhaps but a biological parents (mother or father) are the least likely to sexually assault a child.
    
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- OUB :
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:21:04pm
  
  Your comment is ambiguous. Is that because hetero dads outnumber gay dads or are you talking in percentage terms? If you're going to throw inflammatory comments like that into the conversation it would be good to see you cite a source.
  
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- Poll Hereford:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:56:06pm
  
  You do realise that group of abusive fathers is far more likely to be in a heterosexual couple with the child's mother? So the biggest part of your solution would be to ban divorce and re-partenering of heterosexuals?
  
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  - mikes:
    
    11 Jul 2013 12:04:57am
    
    Interesting point. Remove unilateral divorce, force parents to sort out their trash and get on with taking care of their kids instead of selfishly deciding 'we just don't get along anymore' and we may solve many of societies problems? Might just be crazy enough to work.
    Plus, that's a fairly week argument relying on the overwhelmingly larger sample group inherent in heterosexuality.
    
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Huonian:

10 Jul 2013 11:16:56am

I'm a conservative and I don't hate you, Ginger, if that's any consolation!

So, you didn't pick up on the problem at the time. They successfully hid their "issues" from you as they did, apparently, from just about everybody else. Why is that your fault?

And, in your time, you've quite probably interviewed people who, in their private lives, are violent, drug dealers or even Collingwood supporters. Are you responsible for them as well?

And you're right. The issue here is paedophilia, which is a serious crime, not homosexuality.

I don't understand why my fellow conservatives are so hung up about homosexuality. Indeed, it doesn't seem that long ago that, in order to rise in the ranks of the British Conservative Party, one had to...err....uhm....

Don't let the nutters cause you a minute of lost sleep, Ginger. As you say, most people are wonderful. The nutters are out there only to remind us how throughly decent the rest of the human race is!

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- andy:
  
  10 Jul 2013 1:38:27pm
  
  are homosexuals statistically more likely to be pedophiles? That's probably what is lurking in the minds of many.
  
  Alert moderator
  - rob1966:
    
    10 Jul 2013 10:26:09pm
    
    The answer to that question "are homosexuals statistically more likely to be pedophiles?" is an emphatic "NO".
    
    Research has demonstrated that homosexuals are no more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals and, more importantly, approx 97% of pedophiles identify as heterosexual.
    
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- Another Aussie:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:05:31pm
  
  I don't hate Ginger either. Although I don't neccessarily suggest that we all declare a position on this aspect.
  
  But it sure is a shame that Ginger thinks it worthy to support parenting by denying a mum to a child.
  
  As a mother herself can she now see how dreadful it is to deliberately deny the child a mum?
  
  Two dads is a silly idea. So, too, is two mums.
  
  It's not old fashioned to have parenting undertaken, where possible, by both a mum and a dad.
  
  I believe mums are wonderful. Can we please stop denying children a mum in the case of adoptions. Likewise dads.
  
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Hazel:

10 Jul 2013 11:17:16am

It is a sickening and shocking story and your personal insight makes it even more sad. Thank you for your humility in sharing this. Perhaps your story actually helped uncover them in a way? I do hope that this little boy is nutured in a healthy and loving environment from here on in. I do hope that he can recover from the abuse he's suffered. I think it's normal to feel a sense of anger - something very, very wrong happened here. But it's equally wrong to label all homosexual couples as potential perpetrators. Sexual abuse against children is an insiduous crime, usually those that appear the most 'respectable' (homosexual or otherwise) turn out to be abusers. You are not in anyway culpable, but I can understand how this story and encounter would haunt you. The story haunts me too and I never met them.

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Gordon:

10 Jul 2013 11:17:51am

There is chain of evil here, from whatever happened with the true parents, through the Russian "seller", to this pair, and it stops there. Evil people will con non-evil ones. Many other were conned as well. Personal so-called BS detectors are notoriously faulty, in both ways, as we discovered in the Chamberlain case.

Some few people for what ever reason, are wired up wrong, and will cause mayhem if not detected and prevented. This pair were caught by good anti-pedophile police procedures not by one person being a better judge of character than someone else.

I'm glad someone, somewhere, was on the ball, and I hope this poor child has wound up safe, and I care more about that than any attempt to generalise this into pro- or anti- gay arguments.

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kenj:

10 Jul 2013 11:19:43am

This boy was brought into this country on the basis that one of the men was the child's biological father. A case could be made that such claims should be subject to mandatory DNA paternity testing. That would defeat the practice of people buying children overseas and then bringing them here outside the established foreign adoption protocols.

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- lisadp:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:52:02pm
  
  Agreed. This is clearly why the border control questioned them for so long.
  
  Heinous indeed. I would imagine the strategy of pretending to be a gay couple desperately wanting a child was the absolute perfect cover as it would completely distract from the issue of paternity or other 'acquisition mechanism' of the child, due to continued attention on gay discrimination/gay rights.
  
  There was a case in US (afraid to google and find it though) where a single male legally adopted a child from Russia and abused her into her teens. Pretending a gay (or straight) relationship is merely the next level of paedophilic sophistication I suppose. It's got nothing to do with the paedophilia itself.
  
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Steve Christian:

10 Jul 2013 11:20:23am

Homophobia is a misguided word. It is too easy to deflect valid criticism of something that many find abborent and have every right to feel in an open society. Journalists like Ginger are too naive. Paedophiles and gay predators should be lumped in together with rapists. They are the ones with sick and evil minds not those who are revulsed by their dark ways. People should be able to crticise homosexuality per se without being unkindly and unfairly typecast as homophobes. Ginger owes the world an apology not only for being gullible but recklessly judgemental and unprofessional.

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- Neutronia:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:07:14pm
  
  Can't agree Steve. I guess I would call myself a "rapistophobe or a paedophilobe" but not a homophobe, because I do not agree with, and hate what rapists and paedophiles do but I do not hate what homosexuals do.
  
  If you are "revulsed by their (homosexual's) dark ways" then you have a phobia of homosexuals.
  
  There is no valid criticism of homosexuality because it is natural, consenting and DOES NOT HURT ANYONE.
  
  Stop worrying about things that don't affect you and we would all live a more peaceful life :)
  
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- Brendan:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:35:24pm
  
  Hey Steve.
  
  So I'm gay, from conception, which was not my choice and I'm not a pedophile. Far, far from it. I am horrified and sickened by what people will do to children for sexual gratification.
  
  I don't have any want or need to do anything like that. I have a loving relationship with my partner of same age (32) and we don't want to have children of our own. Not because we think we're going to abuse our child , it's because we cannot afford to have a child. We choose not to have children when we struggle at times to keep ourselves clothed and fed.
  
  Are you going to lump us in with rapists and child molesters as well?
  
  I just want to emphasize, I didn't choose to be gay, so how can you compare me to a pedophile, rapist or whatever you want to call me.
  
  I'm a human being, trying to live my life peacefully within our community and yes, we are discriminated against for something that we didn't choose to be.
  
  As a last comment, my partner was emotionally, physically and physiologically abused by his biological mother as a child whilst his father chose to ignore what was happening. This went on for many years with people in the community aware of what was happening, but they chose to ignore it.
  
  I understand the reasoning behind why people say a child should have a mother and a father, but guess what.
  
  Heterosexual parents can be just as evil as anyone else.
  
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- frangipani:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:48:36pm
  
  Actually, I think you owe an apology for associating homosexuals with rapists and pedophiles. Gays are no more likely to be either than are straight people. Homosexuality is not, unlike rape or pedophilia, a criminal offence.
  
  Alert moderator
Peter:

10 Jul 2013 11:21:42am

Very open reflection, Ginger. I hope you can work through this eventually and remove all sense of blame from yourself. It is a complex and layered situation. In journalism, one does one's best including using well informed, evolved intuition. If the scar tissue from these deeply distressing situations grows over your better instincts, it will render you less insightful and more suspicious. That, as you imply, is a worse outcome. The aberrant amongst us should not be able, ultimately, to warp the whole fabric of trust and diversity.

Thanks for documenting and sharing this.

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Joan:

10 Jul 2013 11:22:36am

Journos are always first in suckers queue especially when it comes to reporting alternative life choices, complementary health reporting, Climate change. The depth of their ignorance and gullibility never ceases to amaze me

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- Peter:
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:32:50pm
  
  That is quite a generalisation there Joan. And unsupportable. ALL journalists? As a class? Even a moment's thought renders that claim absurd really. Anyway ...
  
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Clancy:

10 Jul 2013 11:25:53am

:( The reason paedophiles and people who abuse their families get away with it is that they are very good at seeming to be 'normal'. Not an excuse for homophobia, there's plenty of paedophilia from straight men,

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Muppet:

10 Jul 2013 11:25:53am

Ginger, please tell me that Boy 1 is receiving some sort of psychological help with what he has been through and is in the care of someone who actually will care for him and love him. Please..?

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Kelvin11:

10 Jul 2013 11:26:07am

I am not sure that the core issue here is homophobia - it's about the child's interests including the right to decent vetting procedures for prospective parents versus the parents' privilege in being able to adopt a child.

The story is unclear whose jurisdiction this fell under - Russia's? did Australia have any responsibility to vet the adoption once the family arrived here? the US? Who knows the statistics regarding gender/sexuality of adopting parents versus child abuse - but it would indeed be troubling if the level of due diligence is distorted at all by political correctness...

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- frangipani:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:50:32pm
  
  If Australia is anything like other countries, the local adoption people will do a home study to determine whether the parents are suitable adoptive parents, and if so, the parents then go abroad and adopt. The child is then legally there, and DOCS would no more follow up with them than with a straight couple who've just had a baby.
  
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Lynda:

10 Jul 2013 11:26:16am

Ginger, congratulations on the courage to write your story above. So many of your comments are a true reflection of our society. You were in no way to blame for the predicament this unfortunate youngster was enduring. The two calculating, sick men were and are completely responsible for their evil actions and will hopefully reap the consequences of their actions on a young innocent and helpless child. As a society, we need to accept that there are those, who through no fault of their own, are attracted to the same sex. We are not in a position to judge. There are, though, those, both hetero and homosexual, who are perverted and capable of the atrocities perpetrated by these two beasts. I am well aware of heterosexuals who are just a devious, evil and cruel. So, let's not wrongfully attribute blame to one group simply because a couple of their members commit what is being done by those of the hetero sexual community as well.

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ScottBE:

10 Jul 2013 11:26:40am

Having worked with paedophiles and other sex offenders, it is remarkable how people who are so tainted with this psychopathology can come across as perfectly "normal" people.

It is a hallmark of the pathology that these people, generally, can cover their intentions so convincingly.

Lets face it though, it is the unsuccessful sex offenders who cannot do this trick. A presentation of innocence is necessary to obtain the pleasure that they seek and to effect the harm they do. And they seek to do both.

"They look so normal" is precisely why they were able to achieve what they did. Many wise and insightful people are deceived and rightly so. If we disregard the salient point of justice and fairness that we are innocent until proven guilty our then cynicism would lead to worse.

You are right Ginger. As a professional as well as a constructive and creative human it would be inappropriate to judge without having all the facts... No-one could have predicted the outcome given the presentation.

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Robo:

10 Jul 2013 11:38:14am

Yes I can feel your pain and understand how hard this would be for you but I am a simplistic person, I am not homophobic but I have a simple belief in the way nature works for other species. People who are born homosexual are done so for a reason - it is natures way of natural preselection to keep the population in check - it is my belief these people are not meant to have children

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- leafygreen:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:42:50pm
  
  Therefore:
  No IVF for infertile heteros, either, as they weren't born to breed.
  
  I'm not heterophobic, I just believe nature knows best.
  
  However, there does seem to be a small but significant correlation between the biological production of children and child neglect/abuse, so it makes you wonder if biological capacity is really the best measure.
  
  Alert moderator
- JoeBloggs:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:55:12pm
  
  and what of bi-sexuals?
  
  should a bi-sexual in a lesbian relationship be allowed a child?
  
  should a lesbian who was previously in a hetrosexual relationship and who had born a child lose that child to the state (or church run orphanage)?
  
  nature has seen fit to enable lesbians and bi-sexuals to physically have children.... thus using your logic they (at least) should be allowed to have children, right?
  
  Alert moderator
- Arrakis:
  
  11 Jul 2013 8:40:57am
  
  By the same token, we're also not meant to have antibiotics, antivirals, surgery, flying machines, cities, cars or houses made of things other than wood and leaves.
  
  We're human beings. We abandoned what was natural a very long time ago and, when it comes right down to it, nobody is keen to go back to it.
  
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andy:

10 Jul 2013 11:38:47am

what proportion of pedophiles who are convicted (conceding that many pedophiles probably aren't caught or convicted) are homosexual males?

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- genfie:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:11:59pm
  
  I don't have the exact statistic to hand (and it may have changed) so don't take this as writ but most abusers of children are heterosexual males in some sort of close proximity to a child (father, stepfather, grandfather, uncle, brother, family friend etc)
  
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- Albo:
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:07:17pm
  
  Probably most, after a few years inside !
  
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- rob1966:
  
  10 Jul 2013 10:29:12pm
  
  Less than 3% of convicted pedophiles identify as homosexual.
  
  (source: University of California, "Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation", Dr G. Herek)
  
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  - Dr Dig:
    
    11 Jul 2013 9:00:36am
    
    This statement is wrong rob. I have read that blog and numerous other articles and reviews now and the blog you reference appears to be quite selective in the data it presents. (There is also no such blanket statement on there that makes your claim that I can see).
    
    Try this review and you will see both sides of the story:
    
    Hughes, John R. "Review of medical reports on pedophilia." Clinical pediatrics 46.8 (2007): 667-682.
    
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TheDevilYouDont:

10 Jul 2013 11:39:56am

"We're a family just like any other family" is a chillingly perceptive and accurate comment. Families are by their nature private, and with that privacy comes the potential for it to be used as a cloak for abuse. If anyone thinks that children are safe, or even at less risk, living with natural heterosexual parents, I invite them to look at the stories from the ABC today alone, in which one can find reference to two natural heterosexual mothers convicted of killing their children. Basing child protection strategies on the sexual orientation of the parties involved is only going to put children at risk of greater harm, as it will result in the misallocation of already scarce resources from where they are needed most.

Many people would be shocked by how often they come into contact with someone who abuses children in one way or another. If these people looked different from everyone else, or there was some easy way to detect them, we would be doing it already. The idea that pro-gay parental advocates willingly put the welfare of children at risk for no logical reason other than to win a debate is not just a straw argument designed to evoke emotion rather than reason and make opposition appear to be untenable, it is hypocrisy of the most sickening kind.

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- kenj:
  
  10 Jul 2013 6:10:24pm
  
  " 'We're a family just like any other family' is a chillingly perceptive and accurate comment."
  
  No it's not. Just as a man who abducts a woman off the streets and imprisons her does not have a 'marriage'. And the completion of legal forms doesn't make it a family either, not if the intention from the outset is to abuse the child. The entire exercise is a criminal act. It's no different to issuing fraudulent cheques and then claiming you are 'running a business'.
  
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  - TheDevilYouDont:
    
    11 Jul 2013 9:16:17am
    
    Equating same sex parents to someone who abducts someone off the streets is exactly the sort of attitude my comment was aimed at. There are natural, heterosexual parents who have children to abuse them, yet they are considered a "real" family, while same sex parents who raise their child with love and care are excluded. Nowhere does my comment so much as imply that what happened to this child was anything other than an abomination. Your reply is disgusting and offensive.
    
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Shari:

10 Jul 2013 11:42:20am

Ginger - it is horrifying that people will take this and use it as a bludgeon against gay parents. If someone ever did any research into the numbers, I would not be in the least bit surprised to find that most sexual abusers are not gay men, but "straight". It is a sickness of soul that could allow someone - male, female, gay or straight to abuse any child in their care, yet, heartbreakingly, it happens all too often. I hope it will help you to know that this reader, at least, supports you - how could you know what was going on behind the scenes when such a seemingly angelic family presented this face to the world? It is easy to look back and think "I should have known", but sadly there is no way you could have. I am thankful that these predators - regardless of sexual orientation - have been found guilty and jailed for such a long time. Unfortunately, for Boy 1, jail terms will not heal the damage done to this defenseless child.

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Sandy:

10 Jul 2013 11:43:39am

Your final paragraph is gold. If we lose sight of this, then all is lost.

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prison:

10 Jul 2013 11:49:03am

fascinating story. It sounds like you still blame and question yourself and that the homophobic hate mail isn't helping.

Remember, you did nothing wrong and gave these guys the benefit of the doubt that they like 99.9999% of average people would have been raising a child with nothing but good intentions.

They managed to raise the boy for 6 years without anyone else suspecting anything or catching them. They fooled a lot of people and had obviously learned to 'fake' reality very well.

In your situation I would imagine that you want to give them the benefit of the doubt to avoid appearing to be homophobic of discriminatory.

There is nothing you could do so stop beating yourself up over it. Your post looks like a cry for help and I would suggest seeking some help over this and to also NOT READ any negative mail/comments. Try and stay positive!

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- OUB :
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:12:09pm
  
  I don't disagree with you but perhaps people that actively sought to publicise their situation deserved a bit more scrutiny. It is easy to imagine the offenders using Ginger's story in an attempt to shore up their bona fides if questioned in the future.
  
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Dylan:

10 Jul 2013 11:49:33am

You call it homophobic, I call it spiritual discernment. There should be no judgement for gay people or any group for that matter, however it is a form of disturbance and such people need help. As you said yourself that really do suffer a lot in life.

Definitely you shouldn't take any personal attacks on board, you were simply doing your job, yet the fact you were caught up in this mess means certain points of reflection are necessary.

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- Arrakis:
  
  11 Jul 2013 8:42:56am
  
  "There should be no judgement... however, it is a form of disturbance."
  
  I get the impression you're judging there. Just a tad.
  
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Brian:

10 Jul 2013 11:52:37am

Thanks for sharing that: It must be awful to live with now knowing you interviewed them while the abuse was occurring, yet were oblivious to it.
I think many of us have an automatic anger trigger when it comes to abuse of children (I say many, not most or all, as far too many are abused for that to be true) so I'm not surprised some angry adults chose to vent their spleens at you, for no other reason than you're an identifiable and easy target.
I wonder if the same people went after Tony Abbott, who had provided a character reference for a priest who was later convicted of paedophilia. Abbott wasn't to know the man he'd trusted was an abuser of children, and neither were you.
And thank you for reminding us this has nothing to do with homosexuality. Many children of heterosexual couples are abused (by their parents, or one of their parents) and no-one thinks to say heterosexual parenting should be outlawed!

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Nathan:

10 Jul 2013 11:54:06am

When I saw this story my heart sank. Not just for the poor boy who had to endure such monstrosities, but because I knew that because this was a 'gay' couple bigots would use it to attack other gay parents.

The sexual abuse of children is wide-spread. And as we are continually learning it has been for some time. Not only is t grossly unfair to apportion blame to gay people collectively for such crimes, but it is dangerously unhelpful. We risk ignoring the realities of abuse: It can take place in any home, and in any situation. The majority of child abuse is at the hands of people known to the child, and it overwhelmingly happens within 'normal' households.

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Esteban:

10 Jul 2013 12:01:54pm

Everyone thinks they have a good bullshit detector.

Nobody's bullshit detector is as good as they think it is.

Rationaly speaking Ginger Gorman has done nothing wrong. Irrationaly thinking, most people in her position would be kept awake and haunted at night.

Try to focus on the rational and I hope you get through it Ginger.

Every one of us could be duped or just experience rotten luck and find ourselves haunted by a tradgedy that we rationaly did not cause but somehow feel implicated by our association.

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Annie:

10 Jul 2013 12:01:56pm

Ginger,
don't blame yourself. As you said, these people looked normal. How were you to know.

Being homosexual isn't to blame either. As most of us seem to know and understand, (because there are people out there who just don't), there are also presumed "straight" people who are paedophiles. Probably living next door - how would you know...

I don't understand why you are getting hate mail - does "killing the messenger" ring any bells. People can be so stupid...

Just be grateful, Ginger, that this pair have been caught out and now are out of society and away from their adopted son.

The most important focus now should be on the child.

Boy 1 now needs the best of care and love as his life has been dramatically compromised.

I suspect that there will be lots of psychological care for this boy to change his first 6 years of "education", and probably for the rest of his life.

Don't beat yourself up - do something constructive with your anger - keep an eye on him and his progress and help when you can.

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rudy:

10 Jul 2013 12:03:14pm

Good story, Ginger. What happened to this boy is none of your fault, and you don't deserve to be the recipient of hate messages. Nil bastardo carborundum.

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Daniel V:

10 Jul 2013 12:03:47pm

This is a well written article and I can feel the emotion and shock that you experienced, Ginger.

Whenever I come across photos of people who have been convicted of awful crimes, I try my best to look for some sort of outward sign, some sort of clue to their behaviour.
I usually find nothing - and that is profoundly frightening that people can maintain superficially 'normal' lives and yet behind closed door (and maybe mostly inside their own mind) entertain horrendous acts.

I'm not surprised that the 'hate mail' at Ginger has come from the anti-homosexuality movement - it is either part of their mindset to conflate homosexuality with criminality or 'sin' or simply a more conscious effort for political purposes.

Whilst I would describe myself as mostly trusting in nature, almost any time I read a newspaper or watch the news on TV it gives me pause - that there are people in the world who, for some reason or another, seem broken or without empathy. We need to be ever vigilant, especially around those most vulnerable.

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Lucy:

10 Jul 2013 12:16:06pm

Adoptive parent lobby groups complain about the intensive assessment and complicated rules required in Australia, compared to other countries, before people can be approved to adopt legally available children from overseas.
This story shows why it is necessary to fully explore people's motivations in an intrusive assessment process. It may not be fun for the applicants but it puts the child's needs for a safe and loving home at the forefront.
And the Australian system usually stops people from buying children by only working with overseas agencies that our government has approved.
Happily, 99.9% of applicants are child-centred lovely people but it is worth having specially trained, experienced professionals involved as this process as is not easy to assess motivation, as Ginger has painfully discovered.

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jMe:

10 Jul 2013 12:18:28pm

I'm not surprised you didn't pick the crime from the story. I'm not surprised that they acted so normal. When he said that it was the best 6 years of his life I'm sure he was holding to the normality part of their relationship and suppressing the reality. Disassociated personality is the problem not being gay.

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- Bill:
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:28:24pm
  
  And what you call dissociated reality disorder would appear to be almost universal. Most of what we partake in and call normal is really quite abhorrent, but we like to think that everything's ok. It seems the very possibility of continuing to live entails a certain amount of suppression. That general sadness that gets called a sickness gestures towards a problem that is not particular to individuals, but is endemic. Pedophiles aren't evil, they're entirely human. We're a messed up bunch, and we've made ourselves so.
  
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Sarahg:

10 Jul 2013 12:18:38pm

This story highlights the exploitation of children who are suffering at the hands of paedophiles around the world! Children are entitled to be safe in their home environment; they are entitled to be nurtured, fed and cared for in a safe environment by those entrusted with their care...
It is up to ALL of us to ensure that ALL children are safe and that any suspicions we have should be reported.
We need to ensure that our Social Welfare/Justice departments are fully staffed to cope with the overload and we need to make sure that establishments (like Sister Kate's) are maintained so that children who have or are suffering can have a safe haven to grow up in!
The law should condemn abusers to the maximum and NO groups should cover up or condone any abuse to children UNDER any circumstances.

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QC Bob:

10 Jul 2013 12:20:06pm

Two things. If you are gay accept you cannot have a child "together". One of you will always be a step parent (nothing wrong with that; I'm one myself). Why do gay couple's insist on the right of having a family anyway? Accept you are gay therefore no kids.
Secondly, why wasn't the child DNA tested to prove one of these two creeps was the biological father? Could have all been stopped then as they would have lied on the visa/ citizenship application.

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- frangipani:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:47:17pm
  
  Ever heard of international adoptions? If the guys went through some sort of adoption process, they could have brought the child in perfectly legally.
  
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  - kenj:
    
    10 Jul 2013 6:14:21pm
    
    No, the boy was apparently only allowed in because one of them had claimed paternity. It was not an adoption situation as I understand it.
    
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  - QC Bob:
    
    10 Jul 2013 6:15:43pm
    
    Did you read the article? The creeps claimed they used the services of a surrogate mother.
    
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- OUB :
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:35:29pm
  
  Some gay folk have strong nurturing instincts, a need for family around them I suppose. Dying alone is not desirable. No doubt many are good parents. Coming out of a straight relationship into a gay one won't lessen the ties of family. Or shouldn't anyway.
  
  How long does a DNA test take to process reliably? Of course a DNA test would also need to be applied to hetero families. That could embarrass quite a lot of them.
  
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Lee of Brisbane:

10 Jul 2013 12:22:22pm

As a father and grand dad I have only one opinion about these animals. Put them to death. We have over 7 billion people on this planet, we do not need or want these people. Simply kill them and be done with it.

A question that comes to mind is that it seems two men left Australia then came back with a baby, illegally . How can this happen?. What protections and checks do our border controllers do to ensure a child is not being kidnapped or in this case 'used' by evil? What passport and paperwork was issued and used? Are we doing enough?

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Working Wednesday:

10 Jul 2013 12:39:49pm

Thanks for the article.
Real evil always appear to be good.
Too good to be true I guess.
Its sad that this news story is being used by people
for their own political agenda (against same sex marriage, homophobic etc)
And of course its to be expected for you to experience those horrendous online hate (however unfair it is). As there are people online will find any excuse to hate anything to vent their own dissatisfaction in life.
just be strong and don't blame yourself too much. These two evil doers were experiences, fully prepared and have the confidence to accept your interview.
I'm glad they got a heavy sentence, even though I believe these people deserve capital punishment rather than wasting tax payer's money.
I just thankful to the police and the international police catching these criminals.

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bear:

10 Jul 2013 12:42:15pm

Ginger - I can only imagine the "what ifs" and the "how did I not see its" that are keeping you awake at night - I'm sure I'd feel the same way. I totally support your view that pedophiles come from all backgrounds and that evil people are rare. I don't want society to associate pedophilia with homosexuality. I know some fabulous homosexual parents.

However, I sincerely hope these two creeps get the highest possible sentence for the damage they have done to this poor boy and I hope that he can grow up to have a somewhat normal, happy life. I'm sure that you don't need to hear it, but there was nothing you could have done about it.

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NigelC:

10 Jul 2013 12:42:33pm

Well written.

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Steve:

10 Jul 2013 12:43:59pm

Well Ginger, you went looking for stories of "sexual diversity", why are you so shocked when you found one?

The Russian government has known about pedophiles in the west using "gay marriage" as a cover for access to boys for some time now. They've made laws against foreign adoption of Russian children. Let us hope more countries do the same.

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- ajay:
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:42:38pm
  
  I always vowed not to do this but, Steve, you offer me no choice... what a truly ignorant post. How is pedophilia sexual diversity? It is an illegal and evil act that is in no way related to sexual orientation.
  
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W.Carter:

10 Jul 2013 12:48:45pm

While it is true that homosexuals may have physical and mental health problems, may have depression, experience violence (particularly domestic violence), be homeless, take drugs and have suicidal thoughts - these are not necessarily the result of discrimination. In a large part these are the result of a lifestyle choice that people are free to make. However, once you decide to walk down this particular road, please don't ask me to help you feel better about it. I don't encourage drug abusers, alcoholics and other addicts in their self-destructive habits, so why should I apply different rules to homosexuals?

The concept of owning your choices is not popular. It's genetic, I'm made this way, I really don't want ti be... but I am, It's my right - all excuses, with little if any scientific backing for any. What is disturbing is that each of these excuses can and is used for other, less tolerated forms of sexual aberration including pedophilia and bestiality. While the homosexual community tries to distance itself from the excesses of it's more deviant members, they are all sheltering beneath the same roof.

Boy 1 is a sacrificial pawn, collateral damage in the fight for gay rights. Having chosen to take themselves outside the circle of life, homosexuals believe it is their right to take & raise a child. Is it discrimination to allow someone to suffer the impact of their choices? I don?t think so. They also ignore the risks to the child. I am sure that the excuses will be made that these men are not representative of the homosexual community ? however they are also not representative of the wider community either.

As we break the connection between our choices and outcomes is blurred & broken it becomes easier for people such as these to justify their actions. Unfortunately, the homosexual community is unlikely to own their choices any time soon, and the rest of society is so caught up in rights that they have forgotten the obligations we hold individually and collectively to our children.

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- frangipani:
  
  10 Jul 2013 2:45:09pm
  
  Pedophilia and homosexuality are two different things, and you're conflating the two. This article is about two pedophiles abusing a child: those pedophiles could just as easily have been straight as gay. Don't believe for one minute that hasn't happened. It's simply wrong to equate homosexuality with pedophilia, and it only proves the author's point, that gays are not in fact equal, when this sort of ignorant stereotyping can occur.
  
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- Annie:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:50:44pm
  
  Being homosexual is not a "choice" you make one day out of the blue. You are in fact born this way, just like you were presumably born "straight". You know from a very early age who you are attracted to and that you may be different.
  
  This is an argument that Reverend Fred Niles often makes, based only on his perceptions of good and evil, nothing to do with actual facts, and, he doesn't even afford doubt. Even Senator Bernardi makes these comments but also knows nothing of homosexuality.
  
  It's said, and I'm beginning to wonder about, that those who claim that "you make that choice" actually harbour feelings that they are not comfortable with. However, even though I've said it, doesn't mean it's actually true, but it makes one wonder at such vehement comments from some people.
  
  What do you make of people who are bi-sexual then? I'm bi but made a choice to remain straight as my family would not cope with this concept. Is that fair on me or my partner?
  
  It is NOT TRUE that homosexuality is a physical or mental health problem. Where on earth did you get this gem from?
  
  You, like Niles and Bernardi, don't seem to be very well informed.
  
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- NT Lyons:
  
  10 Jul 2013 5:57:52pm
  
  W.Carter, thanks for this writing!
  The only benefit coming out from this story is to give us a wider community an awakening signal that individual choice of their life style should not over power the rights' of our children!
  
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- Lucyb:
  
  11 Jul 2013 6:59:01am
  
  ...and here's me thinking we had moved on from the 1950s
  
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pjay:

10 Jul 2013 12:49:20pm

How can people blame a jounalist or anyone for that matter for the actions of 2 very sick individuals. Does that mean everyone that came into contact with these 2 man should be damned and abused because they did nothing about this horrible act on a small child? This is not about gay people it's about 2 evil men who constructed a plan to have their own personal slave.
Some people just make a very bad situation worse. Leave Ginger Gorman alone!

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- MJMI:
  
  10 Jul 2013 5:59:56pm
  
  "How can people blame a jounalist or anyone for that matter for the actions of 2 very sick individuals."
  
  We have become a society where if something bad happens then someone must be blamed. The PM must be blamed for the negligence of companies installing roofing insulation because it was his government's plan. A court case was brought against Carmen Lawrence years ago seeking to blame her for someone's suicide over a family court matter.
  
  We have glossed over death to a great extent and no longer see it as an inevitable, if sad, aspect of life. We no longer accept the consequences of our own actions. Greed has become the main motivating factor.
  
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hilary:

10 Jul 2013 12:49:33pm

Ginger ,of course you are grieved about what happened to Boy 1 - even people who do not know an abused child feel anger and upset at what happens to them and for you it must be painful in the extreme.

But you wrote your article in good faith and it was only a particularly malignant twist of fate that the couple you interviewed were exceptions to the general rule of kind, caring adoptive same sex parents. Only unthinking, deeply biased and homophobic people can be cruel enough to abuse you and are not worth being concerned about.

In Canberra we know you well as a sincere and well loved journalist in our community and send our warm support, respect and understanding.

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Delphin:

10 Jul 2013 12:55:30pm

While training as a psychiatric nurse decades ago, I worked with young men who had been convicted of sexually abusing young children: these men interacted with our group of young nursing students in an entirely normal and relaxed manner. My gut instinct said they were normal. But the facts were clear: my gut instinct was wrong. This is something that teachers and health professionals need to be more aware of: we can't trust our gut instincts and need to be alert.
And as you've pointed out, it's not just gay couples who abuse children: in a chilling case in Canada in the 90's (Bernardo & Karla Homolka), a beautiful couple married with horse-drawn carriage, the works. They went on to entice teenaged women into their home, including the wife's younger sister, to sexually torment and kill them.
Thanks for raising this important issue, Ginger. And yes, thankfully this is rare enough that we probably don't need to worry. Much.

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LGH:

10 Jul 2013 12:56:06pm

I don't know how we can eradicate pedophilia, but barking up the wrong tree by vilifying homosexuality is not the answer and its good you have spoken up about this.

Homosexuals need to be left in peace to live their lives and pedophiles need to be provided the help and counselling they need to change their ways or at least be taught that respect for other people should come before ones own personal desires.

It must be heartbreaking to feel guilt that maybe something could have been done - but no one was to know. It's horrible but not too late for the child, if he can find the right love and support from here he will be able to grow up and mature and come to terms with it and live a normal life. It won't be easy, and it shouldn't have happened but now that it is over he can start the process of healing.

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- OUB :
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:46:41pm
  
  You are presuming all paedophiles want to quit. That seems unlikely.
  
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rob1966:

10 Jul 2013 12:56:34pm

Ginger, thank you for your heartfelt article.

The important message to take from this situation is that any parent, gay or straight, is capable of being the monster you describe - and in around 97% of cases they are definitely "straight", but no less a monster (source: University of California, "Facts About Homosexuality and Child Molestation", Dr G. Herek)

As you stated, it is unfortunate that in this case the parents were a gay couple; and my heart sank when I heard that news for the homophobes and bigots will now use that as ammunition in their inflammatory war against gay and lesbian Australians. But their strategy ignores the many thousands of same-sex couples in this country raising healthy and happy children, couples who (just like myself) are sickened by the actions of Newtown and Truong and the (unfortunately) large number of heterosexual couples who also perform similar atrocities, often with their own biological offspring.

The overwhelming evidence from medical practioners, sociologists, psychiatrists and psychologists is that same-sex couples are just as suitable as heterosexual couples to provide a healthy, loving, caring environment in which to raise and nurture healthy, happy children. It saddens me that Newtown and Truong have cast a dark shadow over such couples, and that the small-minded will label all homosexuals as paedophiles by default.

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Glenda Pym:

10 Jul 2013 12:56:53pm

I can feel your horror at the actions that have been carried out on this innocent child. However I do take issue with the reference to "these animals..." I am unaware of any animal (when using the term as universally recognised) capable of carrying out this systematically abhorrent behaviour. It is humans that do this and other equally horrific actions to each other. My concern is that as we continue to place an incorrect label on the perpetrators we leave the door open to the dangerous use of other inaccurate labels e.g. homosexuals are to blame or a particular race or religion etc. Tragically there are bad humans who do bad things and as individuals they must be sort out and stopped.

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Melissa:

10 Jul 2013 12:57:04pm

What a sad story. I'm with you Ginger, it's not about parents being hetero or homo - sexual, it is about individuals abusing the innocence and vulnerability of children.

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Baleford:

10 Jul 2013 12:58:26pm

This whole thing makes me so sad and angry.

I know that eventually this had to happen, among the genuinely great gay male couples becoming parents, at least one had to be a matching set of monsters.

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Nadia:

10 Jul 2013 12:59:30pm

Ginger, I can only imagine how you must feel, having literally been standing in the same room as Boy 1, clueless to the life he was being forced to endure. As a former police officer, I can tell you that I too have a great bullshit detector, but have certainly been in the same situation as you - thinking someone is what they appear to be, only to find out later they are quite the opposite. It is not your fault. People like Newton and Truong are psychopaths. They are very practised at appearing normal while being anything but. And you are completely correct - they're sexuality has NOTHING to do with their psychopathy and predatory behaviour.

My anger at those two men when I first heard this story was first for Boy 1 but quickly followed by anger at them for what they have done to the community they said they represented. GLBT people deserve to be parents as much as anyone else - bad parents, good parents, just like straight people. These men have set that argument back decades and that simply compounds the awful deeds they have perpetrated, in my book.

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- OUB :
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:01:56pm
  
  My concern with gay adoptive fathers is the risk of two psychopaths, as you describe them, pairing up in some kind of joint enterprise. I don't doubt that similar issues arise is heterosexual situations as well but presuming the vast majority of hetero offenders are male I would have thought it was rare for the woman in the relationship to seek out a male who shared such a psychopathy. More likely the woman in the relationship is either overborne by a stronger personality or is kept ignorant of the abuse. Or turns a blind eye to the abuse. To me an abusive relationship involving two gay male adoptive parents carries an extra level of risk as a result. The kids have no one to turn to. Is this unfair?
  
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MC:

10 Jul 2013 12:59:39pm

The world always has massive unexpected tragedies. The good thing is, being sentenced in the USA they will be out of action for a long time. At least American sentences reflect the seriousness of the crime.

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- Another Aussie:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:22:16pm
  
  And some parts of USA have consecutive gaol terms rather than the inadequate concurrent gaol terms that we use for sentencing.
  
  The scum in this case desrve to be charged with every crime they committed and they deserve consecutive sentencing rather than concurrent. They should be sentenced to vitamin D deficiency (ie never to see daylight ever again).
  
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zannavan:

10 Jul 2013 1:00:03pm

Possible people to share responsibility for this appalling abuse: the perpetrators; consumers of (child) pronography; people who passively accept child pornography; people who determine that parents should be treated differently (positively or negatively) on the basis of their sexual orientation or marital status; any person who came into contact with Boy 1 or his parents and had reason for suspicion.

People who should can in no way share responsibility for this appalling abuse: A journalist who has demonstrated integrity and a sincere interest in reporting stories about people experiencing marginalisation, discrimination and inequality.

What a shame that the understandable anger expressed by many has been so unhelpfully misdirected.

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Michael:

10 Jul 2013 1:00:03pm

Ginger,

As a now adult victim of childhood sexual abuse, I applaud your decision to write this article. Having a young son with my wife is the most wonderful and fearful thing that has happened to me. Wonderful for all the reasons you already know being a parent yourself, and fearful when stories of monsters like these come to light (sometimes I wonder what world I'm bringing my son into).

Whilst the perpetrator in my case was male, I have never, ever associated paedophilia with homosexuality, and there are far too many varied cases for the two to be compartmentalised together.

My point to this letter is not only to act in support of the article you wrote, where you were misled by these demons, but to also point out to the bigots that nothing is ever as black and white in life as their little cardboard fantasies would have them believe.

Being gay does not make a person a sexual predator, even in my late teens I knew there was a difference.

Thank you Ginger for your insight into how you felt. We all have a right to be disgusted, but lets keep the sexuality agenda out of the equation and concentrate on the crimes committed instead.

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Michael:

10 Jul 2013 1:03:14pm

There is a difference in reporting a story to actively supporting those involved. Journalists should report stories. Journalists are not supposed to be activists. Many at the ABC should remember that. There is a difference in an opinion piece written by a journalist on the Drum to an actual story. The author did not present her story as an opinion piece. The author states that she has a good 'bullshit detector.' One wonders that if the author wasn't so willing and keen to push her activism regarding homosexuality and two men paying a woman to have a child for them so they could raise children if she would have picked up that something was wrong. That's what happens when instead of reporting a story you become an activist pushing your views you lose all objectivity. The title 'Two fathers are better than one' certainly was pushing the authors opinions and she can hardly complain at the negativity and hate that is now thrown her way. Obviously those people have to be conservative and not progressive according to the author. Yet again her views and opinions are displayed for all to see and like many of the ABC they don't like conservative views or people with conservative views and wish to mock and criticise them at every opportunity for who in their right mind would believe that a child should have a mother and a father.

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- Michael:
  
  10 Jul 2013 3:19:22pm
  
  You know I am insulted that we share the same name...
  
  "Journalists should report stories. Journalists are not supposed to be activists." Rubbish. If a journalist reported on two people being peodophiles and did nothing about it that would be aiding and abedding. It's a fine line for journalists to walk but you cannot claim that they should just report stories.
  
  The author presented the story in the opinion piece section of the website. What else does she need to do to "present her story as an opinion piece."? It's pretty obvious to anyone who cares to pay attention.
  
  You claim that " if the author wasn't so willing and keen to push her activism regarding homosexuality and two men paying a woman to have a child for them so they could raise children if she would have picked up that something was wrong." Then she could have reported on it according to you because they should be reporting stories not playing activist.
  
  "certainly was pushing the authors opinions and she can hardly complain at the negativity and hate that is now thrown her way." She presented a story in a respectful and reasonable mannor. She shouldn't face vitriol and threats for that. Saying she can hardly complain about the hate thrown at her is disgusting. How would you like it if I threatened you because of your views? It is completely unreasonable.
  
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  - Luke:
    
    11 Jul 2013 11:08:57am
    
    Although in this article Ginger states " I think I have a pretty good bullshit detector". That is her summation of the background checking she did on this story. She may have done more ( asking for photo's of the mum, asking if there were any momentoes or contact details that the surrogate mum may have wanted to pass on, asking for paternity tests, receipts form russia and america etc... we don't know because Ginger doesn't say, although she coyly states that if every article was backgrounded there would never be time to publish...again I'm not sure what this means, but I don't think, on the article presented it's wrong to assume she did none. In that case, she wasn't reporting as such, but taking an active commentative role in agreeing that the trouble this couple had in adopting was based on homophobic prejudice and not general concern.
    The problem then lies in assessing the value of these articles. The poster boys as posited by Ginger turn out to be monsters, but then the arguement is run that we shouldn't indeed heed the article (which she was very much asking us to heed when it was composed) because this is just an anomoly. That is the problem of opinion based journalism, in the end it can mean something, anything or nothing.
    
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- OUB :
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:08:15pm
  
  To be fair it is probable Ginger didn't write the headline.
  
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Harry:

10 Jul 2013 1:03:42pm

Your article is very enlightening and confusing.

Deception is an act to propagate beliefs that are not true, or not the whole truth.

But deception is defined by truth. Many define their own truths as did these men.

These men would challenge your view of deception.

They would see themselves as loving devoted men. Of course their definition of love is defined by themselves, their truth.

You state this is about sexual predators or paedophilia not homosexuality. Why?

You express your disgust against one but not the other. Why?

Because culture and law says one is legal and the other evil? Another set of truths.

Then your perception of truth is challenged and your response is branding: homophobia / hater.

When a Christ-centred Bible based approach to sin definition, holy relationships and truth is rejected for human rights...the community eats the fruit of these decisions.

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- JoeBloggs:
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:06:30pm
  
  When a Christ-centred Bible based approach to sin definition, holy relationships and truth is rejected to protect the image of the Christian church, their membership and the pedophile priests.......the community eats the fruit of these decisions.
  
  Sorry Harry but the bible bashers are no better or worse than anyone else.
  
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  - Hc:
    
    10 Jul 2013 10:05:54pm
    
    Dear Joe, there was no intended inference of Christians being ' better or worse'. The point was the clash of personal truths or morals, namely the Ginger condemned the morals of the two men while at the same time holds equally confusing morals, hence the defence to divine truth as a foundation and not opinions and self generated personal truths pretending to be righteous. You simply lachted onto the religion bit and ignored the moral quicksand the article clearly displays.
    
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George:

10 Jul 2013 1:03:58pm

Gay doesn't mean peadophile (normally) except by the churches.

This pair are a stain on the many gay parents that bring up their kids well

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profecto:

10 Jul 2013 1:04:51pm

There must be a lot of people who knew them far better than you did, Ginger, and none of them suspected.

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Dugong:

10 Jul 2013 1:05:17pm

How very, very sad.

Sad for you, sad for the entire gay community (well, the vast majority that are honest and good, anyway), and of course, so deeply, deeply sad for "Boy 1".

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Tiger:

10 Jul 2013 1:05:59pm

Hi Ginger

A couple of things.

Firstly, I wonder if your BS meter was out as you may have wanted to believe what they were telling you. As a cop I found I missed things if I wanted to believe what they were saying, often once I had built rapport.

Secondly, I dont think it homophobic to be concerned about two men adopting a child. I am completely understand that homosexuality is a normal part of life. I do find this concerning. Not because I am religious, a right winger or anything like that but that it is 'not natural'. I feel its not natural almost subconsciously. I am fine with IVF, or lesbians using mans sperm to get pregnant or the various incarnations of allowing a female to have a child in a different way as they are still using natures systems (IE the involved females reproductive system).

Once you get two males, who could never possibly conceive, wanting a child then this to me is one step too far. At least in general an actual mother is involved in the process and the child is linked to mum. Maybe its natural to be uncomfortable with what is unnatural by design.

cheers

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NT Lyons:

10 Jul 2013 1:08:50pm

Ginger, it's unfortunate that your journal story ended up being like this. I agree what you said, child sexual abuse happens in straight couple too, even their biological parents. What I try to point out is what drove you to write a story of an adopted child by a gay-couple, but not straight couples? There are heaps lovely straight couples who have done great jobs that wider population needs to be exposed. Though i don't support those critics on you from fb or tweetie, i do have a question of your motivation to present this story.

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Connor:

10 Jul 2013 1:15:41pm

Plenty of people have been fooled by someone who appears to be something other than what they are.
The fact is a couple of paedophiles obviously fooled a lot more people before & after meeting up with Ginger & that is the problem.
If someone wants something bad enough-they will make a plan that will work.Ginger was just an innocent part of the plan.

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Andrew:

10 Jul 2013 1:17:01pm

This story makes me incredibly sad and angry. For the child and also for gay people generally - it is the ammunition every person who has ever felt disquiet about gay people and their place in society, has been waiting for.

However, despite being gay myself, I don't really agree with gay adoption - there are obviously different views on that, and in this case that is not the argument. For me, the real story here is the cautionary tale as to why adoption, whether by gay or straight people, needs to be incredibly well regulated, stringently assessed and restricted. The automatically sympathetic ear Ginger (who I know was well meaning), seemingly lent to the 'dads' plight with regard to the difficulties of getting 'their' child to Australia, because the challenges they faced from the authorities *could only* be homophobic, is wrong. In cold view of the abuse that child suffered after this despicable pair passed the immigration checks and balances, even these 'homophobic' (subtext - overkill) investigations by the authorities are obviously shown to be inadequate.

It is too great a risk to just assume that everyone who adopts - gay or straight - has good motives. A questioning eye is always justifiable and should be supported, rather than attacked, as Ginger impliedly did in her original story. This on-paper brady bunch and picture perfect, yet deeply sickening pair, should go to prove this beyond qualification.

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Kathy:

10 Jul 2013 1:19:15pm

"This current story is not a story about being gay. It's a story about two sexual predators who systematically abused their adopted son" - quite right.

Child abuse (sexual, physical, emotional) happens regardless of the abusers religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or gender. The perpertrator may be able to blame the fact that they were abused, that they have a psychotic disorder, or that they just enjoy it, but there is no way known that they can rightly blame the fact that they are homosexual (or Christian, or male etc etc etc).

Parenting is about loving, protecting, and educating our children to help them grow into balanced happy individuals. That's the whole job description and it is not dependant on lifestyle, religious, or even (at times) socioeconomic factors.

Child abuse is about power, control, and the need to prove something while taking advantage of another who can't fight back.

Ginger - you can't change the past and all your story proves is that these people will go to any and every length to hide what and who they are from the general puble, and they're very very good at it.

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ZB:

10 Jul 2013 1:21:22pm

I'm a female survivor of child sexual abuse, perpetrated by a straight man in a sexual relationship with an adult woman. Pedophiles prey on children, regardless of their apparent sexual orientation - gay, straight, bi, etc - and should be censured and punished for their crimes against children alone.

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Mark B:

10 Jul 2013 1:21:49pm

I agree with your take on this tragic situation. These people if you can call them human beings are evil personified, calculating predators. They could have been either hetro or homosexual. In this case homosexual. My heart aches for the child and hope at least some form of level of trust can be restored in this inocent party. Lets hope these creatures endure a living hell in prison and get the level of justice this disgraceful behaviour deserves.

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ronvanwegen:

10 Jul 2013 1:22:00pm

Deliberately preventing a child from having both a mother and father is child-abuse.

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Bec:

10 Jul 2013 1:24:51pm

I am so sorry that you have had such a terrible response from the public. It is in no way your fault what has happened to this young boy, and all guilt lies with the perpetrators of this cruel and horrific situation. I have a friend whose ex husband was accused and charged with sexual offences against a minor, and five years later she still suffers from the most irrational guilt. The offences predated their relationship, but she felt that she must have been able to sense something wrong, or known those secrets from his past. People live in long term marriages with secrets much like this all the time, and conceal them quite successfully.
I fail to see how a visit of a few hours makes you culpable in any way, there were other people in their lives who would have spent far more time in their company who also had no idea what was happening. I agree that homophobia is driving a lot of the anger at your previous article, I also prefer to approach people on face value and offer a friendly trust. If you engaged in the kind of profiling encouraged by bigots and homophobes you would not be able to call yourself a journalist, or a professional.
It is a terrible occurrence, and I am glad that the child has been rescued and has a chance at a healthy life from now on. You will feel against all the facts that you should have known something. That is completely normal in the situation. You also know yourself, and that if the situation had set alarms ringing then you would have acted courageously and decisively.

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Scotto:

10 Jul 2013 1:25:00pm

I understand where Ms Gorman is coming from. If I were in here shoes I would also be carrying a terrible burden of guilt despite the fact that I don't think (from what little I know about the case) there really was anything else that could have been done to make sure these guys' stories "checked out".

If you are a ranting conservative Christian please keep your comments to yourself and just think of constructive ways in which you can help victims of child sexual abuse and given how the Catholic Church has tried to cover up their abuses perhaps society should consider banning practising Christians from unsupervised access to children.

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Mike (the other one):

10 Jul 2013 1:27:53pm

If homosexuality is a natural part of human sexual diversity, as it is so often pointed out to us, then why don't we make it a standard that human beings have and raise children the natural way?

At least it might go some way to raising awareness about overpopulation, the trade in human reproduction, reproductive materials and the trade of children.

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Nup:

10 Jul 2013 1:28:28pm

One of the scary aspects of this case is the reminder that ordinary, good people can be horribly misled by others. As an average person, you never really suspect what is going on in the minds of those few members of society who are not good, ordinary people, because it is so far beyond anything we could ever comprehend doing ourselves. And when their awful thoughts and deeds are finally exposed, it is a shock to discover that people who outwardly appeared to be so like ourselves were in fact so far removed from us as to be almost unrecognisable.

There are terrible, evil people of every sexual orientation. In this case, the two perpetrators happen to have been homosexual. In many other cases, the perpetrators are heterosexual. To confuse the two issues (sexual orientation with sexual predation) is to do a massive disservice to the majority of both homosexual and heterosexual people who aren't paedophiles, and who could never conceive of committing such horrible acts.

I'm sorry that you've been the target of so much hate, Ginger, simply for being a trusting and compassionate human being. If only those pointing the finger at you could be equally compassionate, they too could see this case as you described it - not defined by the perpetrators' homosexuality, but instead defined by the perpetrators' inhumanity.

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Alex:

10 Jul 2013 1:28:33pm

No doubt this is a truly horrific story. A backlash against you is unjustified, but if I'm honest, I'm not surprised to find you the victim of vitriol.

I think as a society we like to think that we're not helpless against these kinds of abusers. That desire to feel in control makes us want to think that there was something - anything - we could have done. Here, that means we'd like to think that if we had seen these pedophiles, interviewed them, studied them, that we would have somehow known that something was amiss.

While you know that's not the case; airport officials who quizzed them more intensely than yourself also concluded they were benign, the idea we could have stopped the abuse is a thought with appeal.

I hesitate to imply the silver lining of a cloud so dark matters in the slightest, but at least there has been nothing negative implied about inter-racial relationships (though maybe due to order of bigot priority, homosexuality, where present, just trumps it).

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LG:

10 Jul 2013 1:28:37pm

All paedophiles/ child molesters 'look normal', and most of the time are abusing someone who is close to them (i.e. a family member) - this is something that needs to be realised!

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NM:

10 Jul 2013 1:32:27pm

I can't begin to imagine the depth of emotion you would be feeling after encountering this kind of horrible situation. It takes a great deal of courage to stand up for what you believe in, and you are doing so with integrity but publishing this article. I truly hope that you are supported by your workplace, and that Boy 1 is supported and cared for where ever he is now.

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Mudge:

10 Jul 2013 1:39:15pm

Hi Ginger,

You are totally right that abusers come in all forms - biological mothers and fathers rent out their children for sex just as these two evil individuals did - this is not about being gay and a parent but unfortunately it will set the cause back. However, please do not refer to these two as "animals" - evil is a human quality which seems almost absent in perhaps the more noble animal world.

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IanM:

10 Jul 2013 1:39:24pm

A sad example of the dangers of group-think at the ABC. It is clear from the reasons Gorman gives for deciding to cover this story that she began with a set of preconceived ideas which blinded her to the reality of what she was seeing. Those biases caused her to believe whatever her subjects told her at the expense of a defenceless child. We can't know if things would have turned out differently if she approached the topic with an open mind. However there is no evidence presented here of any healthy scepticism, surely a basic requirement of any journalism, just a determination to present a narrative portraying characters as good or bad depending on Gorman?s particular view of the world.

Sadly it would appear that Gorman has learned little from the experience. She is angry at the paedophiles she chose to represent model gay parents, but apparently can't comprehend why there should be any anger (she calls it a "hate campaign") directed at her. She concludes it "comes down to homophobia". Apparently vilification out good, vilification in bad. Moreover, having smeared various civil servants going about their very necessary jobs as homophobic, there is no hint here of any apology. The fact that they were doing their jobs while she was not does not appear to have penetrated. She can't understand why anyone should question her journalistic integrity. I'm amazed she's deluded enough to think she now has any.

Then the question arises "would I do anything differently?" Inevitably, given the justifications above the answer is "no". Apparently this sad tale is all down to chance. No admissions of failure, no apologies, nothing, just bad luck. We will all just have to hope that Gorman doesn't chance to interview anymore criminals and portray them as model parents. What wonderful standards at our national broadcaster! Can we now expect more self-serving justifications on Media Watch as well?

Finally it is worth asking why this sorry piece of self-justification is being put out now, when it was "August 2011 that Newton and Truong came to the attention of New Zealand police". Understandably perhaps the ABC has been very quiet about all of this for a long time. Rather than any self-motivated, careful long-term analysis of this issue and how to address it, perhaps it is a panicked response to a piece by Roger Franklin on this topic put online a week ago. Amazing coincidence if not, particularly given his comment that "now, at least at the ABC, everything can be set right by the simple expedient of making embarrassing and inconvenient stories disappear". Perhaps no longer quite so true.

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- OUB :
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:41:31pm
  
  That is a strongly made point. Overstrong perhaps. Ginger's intervention caused no harm and her sins if any were no greater than many others who came within Truong and Newton's orbit. Hopefully people, including Ginger, will learn from her experience. I don't see a point in trying to amplify her feelings of guilt.
  
  I expect the story had to be taken down for legal reasons to do with identifying victims of abuse.
  
  Alert moderator
  - IanM:
    
    10 Jul 2013 9:01:01pm
    
    OUB, my concern is with the depressing journalistic standards involved and the pitfalls inherent in articles designed to promote a cause. It is also disturbing how Gorman appears to be able to see anything other than bad luck as a cause for her dilemma, how she seems unable to see a way of avoiding a repeat and how quickly she resorts to vilification of those who disagree with her, while complaining about anyone who pushes back. Journalism should be about more than propaganda and name calling, and perhaps if a diversity of views was presented on the ABC we would get more debate and less abuse.
    
    As far as the reason the original piece was taken down, it may well be the case that, as claimed, a police request was the reason. Under the circumstances the ABC would hardly contest such a request. Equally it may be that the bonus of removing an embarrassing and inconvenient story was just a by-product of that request. Unfortunately, for the obvious reason that Gorman's article promoted their cause, Gay Dads Australia reproduced it in full on their website. Consequently large parts of it are now quoted in Roger Franklin's article, giving us the alternative viewpoint the ABC seems unable to provide. There is nothing in those quotes which would betray Boy 1's identity.
    
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    - OUB :
      
      11 Jul 2013 9:27:40am
      
      I agree with most of your points. My original post didn't make it but I saw Ginger's approach as more editorialising or a colour piece rather than journalism.
      
      Alert moderator
minni:

10 Jul 2013 1:40:57pm

Just because someone did something terrible and you were not able to see it bears no reflection on you.
Please don't beat yourself up over it.
And the haters.... well someone will always look for the worst in every situation unfortunately.

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Will:

10 Jul 2013 1:41:36pm

It was a silly mistake to make for a professional journalist. She did more than simply interview the men, she used them to make a point. In doing so, she disgraced herself and made things more difficult for the gay community.

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tj lawrence:

10 Jul 2013 1:42:07pm

Hi Ginger,
After 40 years teaching my experience shows that the most balanced students were always a part of a family structure that had a male and femaleas parents or carers. Neither love money nor sentiment can replace the innate qualities a male/female partnership offers..
This of course is not a fashionable view,particularly in the eyes of the media,but it is at least fqctual.

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DMC:

10 Jul 2013 1:44:55pm

MJLC, you have it right. The child's situation is the true horror, not "the horror of being tricked...". Sometimes things just are not all about you, Ginger.

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Gone to the races:

10 Jul 2013 1:46:04pm

It seems paedophiles may be born that way. The ABC's "All in the Mind" program covers this topic. Here is the link

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/allinthemind/the-psychology-of-paedophilia/4717436

Ginger it seems there will never be anyway of completely protecting children now or in the future. The abuse would have occurred even if you had not done the story.

But can I say please desist from using the term "homophobic". It's wearing thin. This word is used now purely as an insult and to render inviolate any debate or discussion on community issues.

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truebeliever64:

10 Jul 2013 1:53:22pm

What a tragedy for this child. I hope that he receives the support, love and care he needs to come to terms with the horror he has experienced. As for you, Ginger, I agree with other comments that the perpetrators are very practised as hoodwinking people and it seems you were hoodwinked. It is possible, though, that this terrible experience might sharpen your antannae for charlatans like these monsters. But I'm glad you won't let this make you lose all trust in human nature even if it gives us all pause to recognise the evil of which some humans are capable.

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Jenny:

10 Jul 2013 1:54:06pm

Don't let this sad story get you depressed Ginger. You said you picked 9 stories from far North Queensland's Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender community, well only 1 of those 9 stories involved a global pedophile ring. That's just slightly over 11%.

We can't let unfortunate stories like these be used by bigots and homophobes to oppose marriage equality and adoption by same-sex couples.

Keep fighting the good fight Ginger!

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annie Jope:

10 Jul 2013 1:59:58pm

as a journalist you did a good job, as parents they are monsters, the two can never meet, I think the community of caring parents are just as sorry as you are.Forgive yourself and pray for the little boys wellbeing.

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enno:

10 Jul 2013 2:00:11pm

You complain that people "link" homosexuality to pedophiles.

But then you automatically assume that people who say they detest pedophilia, are therefore homophobes.

It seems that the person making the link, is you .

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TBear:

10 Jul 2013 2:01:39pm

There is something wrong with this reporter making this story so much about herself, her grief, etc.

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- Peter:
  
  10 Jul 2013 4:40:30pm
  
  I disagree totally. This "story" has many aspects. And perspectives. I think, as a journalist, she has been open and added something to our understanding of the journalistic process and its challenges.
  
  Her "grief" and reflections are realistic and legitimate threads of the overall narrative here.
  
  I would like to hear exactly why you believe otherwise.
  
  Do you have some pre-conceived idea of how "this story" should be told?
  
  Alert moderator
Cassi:

10 Jul 2013 2:02:59pm

Thank you Ginger for writing this story.

Paedophiles can look like ordinary people, that's how they are able to commit their crimes and often get away with it. They are teachers, priests, parents, siblings and extended family.

It's not about banning particular groups of people from being around children, it's about identifying the abuse where we can and putting a stop to it.

Speaking out about how you experienced this couple helps people to understand that abuse can be committed by normal people. This is so often overlooked when talking about child sexual abuse!

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Sandra:

10 Jul 2013 2:03:15pm

Ginger, my heart goes out to you and that little boy. A few years ago, I found out that someone I had thought of as a friend had been abusing his daughter for years. Her mother, someone I would categorize as a lioness when it came to protecting her kids, had no idea what was going on under her own roof. I have no doubt that she would have done anything to protect her daughter, but the dad was just too good at hiding the truth, and had somehow convinced his daughter to do likewise.

The men you interviewed were most likely not even gay; they were simply posing as such. If the mother of my friend's child didn't suspect what was going on, how could you expect yourself not to be tricked, at least some of the time, by expert liars? Please don't be too hard on yourself!

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Ruby and Bella:

10 Jul 2013 2:03:34pm

Good on you for speaking up Ginger. Remeber you did not committ or encourage the crime. You are not the police either. A lot of other journalists would have just walked away from this one. Well done.

Kindest regards

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traveller:

10 Jul 2013 2:04:18pm

I worked in a sex offender prison for some time and the scary thing about the kiddy fiddlers is that they are so ordinary, apart from a couple of the more well known ones they are just like every one else.

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Melbourne Reader:

10 Jul 2013 2:05:34pm

The sadness is that those that are evil can only do so by hiding it. The simple fact is you are an honest, caring, warm person who'd not have such a thought walking to the front door of two people who's story moved you.

Ginger; you're an excellent reporter and a beautiful human being.

And I'm very sure a top mum.

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MJMI:

10 Jul 2013 2:06:32pm

What we need is a new word to replace pedophile. It is quite wrong to suggest that people who sexually abuse children are child lovers.

It is a terrible story to read Ginger and I am sorry to think how much you are suffering for not picking up on a level of abuse that was sickening to read about. But plausible abusers exist everywhere and it is not easy to recognise them. The best you can do is tell the rest of us so that we too may be more alert and more willing to call abuse when we do witness it.

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Survivor:

10 Jul 2013 2:08:04pm

I can tell you for a fact that paedophiles come in all shapes and sizes and it was my father that committed that same crime on me. I have lived with shame, guilt, anguish, depression, suicidal thoughts and the worst part is I have never been able to be close to my own children. Whilst my wonderful husband has been exceptional in his ability to support me during the worst of times, it is hard for him to understand the full gamut of emotions that lead to mental illness, acquired as a result of sexual abuse.

I was only two years of age when this happened to me - not old enough to defend myself. I fear for this young child because I know he will live with this horrific experience for the rest of his life.

An incredibly sickening story not any fault of yours Ginger but those of the predators. The only good thing to come of this is that they have been removed from causing more harm to children.

Despite my horrific experiences I continue to appreciate people from very diverse cultures and sexual orientations. Paedophiles should never be equated to homosexuality, rather, monsters of the worst kind. They even come from "decent families" and so I hope the gay community will not be demonised as a result of your story, sadly though, I think they already have.

I too believe the majority of people are good. But evil still exists under the guise of paedophilia. How are they mistaken? It is purely because our perception ( a social construct) is they don't come from "decent families." I hope my comment dispels one of these myths.

Paedophiles exist everywhere and children must be given the tools to be able to speak up. Some of this must be provided through education at school, whether it be a state run or a privately run institution. The more open a society is the less chance of something terrible like this in nature can be hidden.

Sadly for me it's all too late - my innocence was stolen. It is not too late though for this generation. Ginger your piece is a starting point in bringing this unsavoury topic to the surface. Don't ever lose faith in humanity - goodness still exists.

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Gary G:

10 Jul 2013 2:24:00pm

The Yanks have the death penalty, an outcome I would have thought more appropriate in this instance. The abuse of a child like this utterly outrages me. How was the assessment of this couple carried out and bungled in the first place, and where was the follow up by DOCS ( or whoever It's supposed to be) in keeping tabs on the welfare of this child, post adoption. This equally infuriates me.

To have this couple idealised in the original article is also very annoying. Ginger, we all get it wrong from time to time but we really do have to be cautious with issues like this. Your young so please learn. For what it's worth, I think a real value add to this conversation would be researching some hard facts regarding statistics around the adoption industry so we can get some measured assessment of the pros and cons of it all. For example comparing gay couples, hetero sexual couples, single person adoptions, or whatever other category options there may be. Can we get an assessment of which categories ( and other impacting issues, ie. no of children in family, social standing, wealth etc.)provide the best successful outcomes for adoptees in general. I and I'm sure many others would find such an article informative to our opinions on this subject. Beyond that Ginger thanks for having the guts to put it up.

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- Connor:
  
  11 Jul 2013 10:23:58am
  
  Death Penalty...bit harsh a lot of people would say, though shalt not kill & all that.
  All in all-events like this just make gay couples adopting children that little bit harder. Thats the bottom line.
  
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Mark:

10 Jul 2013 2:24:37pm

Ginger, you can't label the proposition that children deserve a male and a female parent as "hate speech". No matter how much you disagree with the opinion, it just isn't hateful in any conceivable way.

Otherwise, thanks for the article - it was a thoughtful piece and must have been very difficult to write.

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mick ale:

10 Jul 2013 2:26:08pm

Debate on sexual preference will always be an issue here because there is no other explanation for the crime.

These people aren't just evil as you say, they are paedophiles. Evil people kill, maim, torture, extort, rape, hate etc. usually for some gain but only a paedophile could be responsible for these crimes against children. For the rest of the population there is simply no motive.

In other crimes we see a lack of moral conscious, mental wekness, a desire for some unfair gain etc., in general a product of someones poor character. But if you take the "worst character" examples of our population you will not see these crimes unless they are also paedophiles. Murders, theft, rape yes but not these crimes against children.

This is where the phobia of sexual preference comes from. There is no other striking explanation for these outrageous crimes than their sexual preference is not "normal."

I believe there is a high rate of abused children becoming abusive themselves, at what point does the media change labels from victim to perpetrator. Has been a bit fuzzy over the years.

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Kate:

10 Jul 2013 2:29:15pm

It's very worthwhile to reflect on this story from this tangental perspective and I commend Ginger Gorman for having the courage to do so. My thoughts are with the child, and all praise to the police officers who broke the case. Boy 1 has a hard road ahead of him. I absolutely believe that with the right support he will be okay... but he will require a lot. If a fund were ever set up to pay for his future counselling, schooling, whatever he needs, I know there are many people who would donate. Just a suggestion.

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- helen dawson:
  
  10 Jul 2013 11:35:59pm
  
  Boy 1 is an Australian citizen, and should have the full support of the Australian government to be returned to Australia, away from the trial to a caring family, that have experience in dealing with children who have gone through this sort of extreme trauma.
  I agree that there should be a support fund set up for him, that can receive donations from the public.
  He's going to need a lot of care and support.
  As survivors of abuse have said in this forum, there is no way of picking a predator, unless you catch them biting, fondling or getting an erection around a 3 year old. In which case, call 000.
  The last predator I had to deal with was a Child Protection Officer, which made for a very stressful situation, until the child was safe.
  Some predators convince the people around them that they are the 'better' parent, as their investment in manipulating their victim is so huge, they will go to extraordinary lengths of display of 'good parenting'. That in itself is a bit of an indicator that you can look out for.
  It is important that children know that they can always speak their mind about any issue that is troubling them to relatives, teachers, grandparents.
  It is important that child safe behaviour is taught to young ones at school, so that they can learn to say 'No' to unwanted physical contact.
  The CASA Units are available for Survivors, and for any child who is getting away from an abusive situation, they are the best first call.
  Pedophiles are actually Child Rapists, in many instances, and that is the disgusting reality that the name 'pedophile' glosses over.
  The Federal Royal Commission into Child Abuse is currently taking evidence from individuals across Australia.
  People get hysterical about the side issues, as a way of avoiding discussing Boy 1, his experiences, and his future.
  
  Alert moderator
Katarena:

10 Jul 2013 2:33:56pm

This comment is a response to some of the homophobic comments on here. I've been doing a lot of reflecting on what it means to be a parent lately. I desperately want to start my own family, but this is impossible right now. So I wanted to talk about my observations with other parents.

My housemate is a single mother who co-parents. She has three children, two come over every fortnight and Spade who lives with us all the time.

My housemate is a wonderful mother. I've never seen her shout at her children, she never hits them and when she's frustrated, it's about the issue at hand. Spade is a very well rounded polite young girl. She's come into my room to chat on a number of occasions. I have to say, if I raise a child to be that well mannered and well spoken, I will be a very proud mother.

The other mothers she's had over haven't been as very good. Another single mother who's been around is nowhere near a tenth of the mother she is. (Names changed) Renee is a chronic gambler who requires centrelink's intervention in order to stop her from gambling every cent in her purse. The way she speaks to her children is abhorrent- She's quick to snap and on a number of occasions, has called her children hurtful names which I can't even fathom saying to someone I hated, let alone my own child.

Anna is a married woman who has three older children on her own and two younger with her new husband. This new husband calls the middle child all sorts of horrible names, the husband actively favours the youngest and treats Anna's child with contempt. Anna has tried to discuss this with him, but he says something like "If he stopped being a little Sh*thead..." Anna then decides that there's nothing she can do, because that's just the way her husband is. She and Renee mocked me for having a very bright attitude toward life telling me that I was in a 'honeymoon'. Her eldest child who's struggling with bipolar was referred to as "a little bitch"
Heterosexual or broken families mean nothing. There are good and bad parents from all walks of life, and what matters is being a *good* parent and raising your child to be a good human being. Never take your own frustrations out on your child and always treat them with respect. These are basic principles to parenting, and it's alarming how this goes so wrong. If you're not ready to give yourself over to being a parent, save the opportunity for someone who is- regardless of what gender their partner is.
The child of a gay couple won't have to go through anything negative if parents actually took the time to raise their children to be decent human beings, as I sure as hell will be raising my children to be.

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Juliet:

10 Jul 2013 2:42:25pm

Ginger I congratulate you on your honesty and integrity in this story, and in the original story of 2010 too. i hope you have a thick enough skin (and a strong enough employer in the ABC?) to bear the weight of the hate mail.

the story you came across is horrible in teh extreme, but i have to agree with the above posts that homosexuality MUST NOT be equated with paedophilia, ever. banning all gay parents makes as much sense as banning all Austrians from having children (just in case they intend to lock them in the cellar). i dont know the solution on this, apart from everybody being vigilant and reporting any suspicion of kiddy-fiddling, no matter who the suspect may be, as all seem to be equally capable.

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hazy:

10 Jul 2013 2:49:47pm

We don't have capital punishment because we cant countenance the thought of an innocent person getting the chop. How about we extend the same compassion to little kids?The whole idea that breeding and parenting is a human right is a sick joke on the taxpayer. How about a Charter of Human Responsibilities?

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- CharlieT:
  
  10 Jul 2013 7:31:23pm
  
  I'm not sure where society in general started being all about rights and nothing about responsibilities... In the high school I attended in the 90's, every classroom had the list of students' rights - and a corresponding list of responsibilities. So yes, you had a right to be treated with respect by your teacher - but you had a responsibility to do the same - and you forfeit your right if you don't hold up your end of the bargain. Seemed pretty fair to me! So I'm not sure why the same principles can't be applied to other 'rights'. In this context, I'm not talking about the basic human rights to food and shelter and clothing - but the other stuff people spruik on as being their 'right' - owning dogs, having children, driving a vehicle, drinking alcohol, etc...
  
  Alert moderator
George Grisancich:

10 Jul 2013 2:55:52pm

I cannot imagine the conflicting emotions you must be experiencing now. If only you could have seen through their sherade and exposed them for the mosters they are.

You set yourself up to be duped because you set out to write a puff piece on the persecuted - so we could hear the voices that usually weren't. You didn't see the horrors these monsters were hiding because you were trying to tell "their story", not the story. By these monsters I mean Troung and Newton, not gay people.

Now that their crimes have been exposed, you don't see how you aided in legitimising the outward appearence of normallity they were desperate for the authorities to accept. You may not yet be ready to accept that you were a part of this sherade and therefore partially responsible, but to state you would do things the same show a level of self rationalisation bordering on the dilusional.

One would hope that next time you might approach such a story not just from their burning desire to be parents, but also from that of the child. I hope that you might look into the suspisions of paedophilia that they themselves raised.

"My recollection of this moment was that both Newton and Truong were smiling at the absurdity of the idea they might somehow be suspect of something. Did these two smiles signify how uncomfortably close to the truth I was? Or were the smiles simply brazenness? I will never know."

"We will never know" - well I think we do. By the time of your inteview they had been abusing Boy 1 for 5 years already - since he was 2 weeks old. They were brazenly playing you for a fool. They told you they quizzed by Customs because they knew you would side with them and not investigate further.

You may not have seen this at the time, but you should see this now.

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- Maxime Porc:
  
  10 Jul 2013 10:34:22pm
  
  So, had you been in her shoes, do you think you would have been able to tell that they had been abusing the child? Would you have been able to tell the difference between them and a gay couple that wasn't abusing their child? What if it had been a straight couple? Would you still have been able to tell between an abusive straight couple and a normal one? And if it had been a straight couple, would we still be here talking about this? Would you have written this comment? Would there be people using the situation to argue that mixed-sex couples should therefore not be having children? Please consider these questions and be honest with yourself.
  
  The answer to these questions, I would strongly suggest, is no. Of course not. Horrendous abuse does occur to children in seemingly perfectly normal families with a married mother and father. Nobody blames the institution of marriage. Nobody would blame the journalist if this were the situation.
  
  Everything about this negative reaction is predicated on the notion that homosexuality is wrong or, at best, that same-sex couples are unfit to be parents. There's no evidence to back this up. The only evidence I've seen as justification is that men are more likely to abuse children than women. As I understand it, this is true, (though as far as I know this refers to abuse in general, not specifically sexual abuse). But extrapolating from this to conclude that since a male same-sex couple has twice as many men in it they are therefore twice as likely to abuse a child is not exactly a rigorous argument. Even if it were accurate--and I see no reason to think that would be the case--that 2x figure pales in comparison to the many studies that show that children are many times more likely to be abused by a step-parent. But few argue that people with children shouldn't get remarried. As I said, everything about this is based on an irrational aversion to homosexuality or same-sex couples.
  
  Alert moderator
Chris:

10 Jul 2013 3:21:32pm

Is it OK to discriminate against men by asking them to move seats on an aeroplane when it turns out they're seating by themselves next to an unaccompanied child? Well, statistically speaking men are far more likely to be peadophiles and we take children's safety very seriously, so there does seem to be some sort of justification for it. But it's a very controversial question.

The issue of addoption by gay men is not so black and white either. The truth of the matter is that men are more likely to be peadophiles and having two men raise a child does significantly increase that risk. The question is similar to the above example, do we allow our justified fears of increased risk to the child to cause us to discriminate against innocent men who would never commit this horrible crime?

What I don't want to see however is the fear of appearing homophobic preventing us from approaching this question in a consistent manner.

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Eva :

10 Jul 2013 3:32:27pm

Unfortunately it is also women abusing and mistreating their children as has been the case in the last couple of weeks when the news came out about the two little girls that lost their lives. That poor little boy, it's heartbreaking to think of him, a little innocent child, for me there is no penalty harsh enough!

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Mike:

10 Jul 2013 3:33:36pm

The real crime is that people with same sex attraction are being lied to and led down a path to perdition. That is the real crime. That society or at least a part of it is telling them, lying to them, that its good. I don't tell a liar, they are born that way, I don't tell an adulterer, they are born that way. I don't tell a murderer, its not their fault, its just the way they were made. And I won't tell someone who is tempted by same sex attraction its good for them either. Like all sinners, they will attempt to rationalize their behaviour. And guess what? We are ALL sinners! Rather I say, deny yourself, take up your cross, CONVERT and follow Christ. Its real. Its for the good of your eternal soul. Don't believe the lies or the liars that say other wise. Their father, is the father of all liars.

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Anne:

10 Jul 2013 3:35:36pm

As a nearly 50 year old person who was molested as a child for several years by a hetrosexual male, i think it's good that everyone is so passionate about this topic. For Ginger, perhaps you could keep it going and research it more, as there's so much more work to be done on the general topic of child abuse. I don't know the stats on gay people who are pedophiles, but my opinion, which may be clouded is that you can get a feel when something is wrong and I personally don't think it's wrong what people's preferences are who bring up children, but of course hetrosexuals abused me. I think a lot of the church abusers were possibly gay. I would urge everyone to report when they think something is wrong. The child will be quiet, too quiet, or always in trouble, holding themselves in places all the time, but not needing to go to the toilet, they'll be needy, maybe keep getting changed, bathing too long, big temper tantrums. Maybe there could be a foundation set up which shows real signs and teaches the signs, and input can be given by people who have worked with abused children and from adults who were abused children. There's plenty out there, it's a huge problem. There are so many people who do still bury their heads in the sand with this issue. But there and there are anonymous lines you can call now. My family don't speak to me, as I was the only sibling abused. They are a classic example of what families do in Australia - just continue abusing the child, but mentally this time, well into their adulthood. I sought counselling as an adult, but it's tough, very hard. You never forget. One of the things I was constantly told was that if my parents and siblings supported me and were nice to me, I would be so much better off, but they don't. Thank-you for all of you for caring enough to comment on this subject. I am sure my family won't.

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Bronwyn Coles:

10 Jul 2013 4:28:36pm

Ginger you obviously did what any journalist would do - reported the story to the best of your ability with the facts that you had to hand. Don't beat yourself up about it - the world is definitely full of more kindness than nastiness - it's just that often the latter gains a higher profile. And as they say, it is easy to be wise in hindsight.

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Dane:

10 Jul 2013 4:37:08pm

This is an unfortunate incident for the reporter to have stumbled upon. Ginger is not a law enforcement officer, her role does not afford her the ability to investigate further beyond what sources are willing to offer. Even authorities require warrants and they are given out on the weight of suspicion. If there were an adoption process in Australia for same sex couples, the effort to go to Russia would have been suspicious. A couple of ANY nature going to Russia to purchase a child would seem suspicious. But because of the loop holes and a seemingly loving couple, I too would have just thought it was two people trying to adapt to a system that ignores them. There have been adoption horror stories like this for years. Traditional institutions of love (religion, family) are used as a fronts for these predators. Wolves in sheeps' clothing. The claim of a traditional partnership between a man and a women under god will ensure the safety of a child has been debunked by history itself. Claiming to the victim of a system is just another misdirection these predators are using. Being the model example of love and tradition is another one.

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skeptic:

10 Jul 2013 4:46:53pm

I don't have an opinion on gay relationships. I do have some very strong opinions on pedophiles and child abusers.

If anyone takes this opportunity to take aim at gay couples, then I believe they have missed the mark, way off. Take the Catholic sex abusers for example. These "men/animals" put on a religious outfit, claimed to be holier and closer to God than everybody else, and done some really filthy stuff to innocent children. The parents themselves thought there was nothing to worry about because these men are meant to be trustworthy by virtue of their association with the faith. Unfortunately, many of them were horribly wrong! Now many decades later, and it took a brave police officer in the name of Detective Inspector Peter Fox to flush them out.

To put it in a nutshell, it is near impossible to check out someone's illegal activities, especially those who are well drilled to hide from probing eyes.

It is good to be vigilant about pedophilia activities, but sometimes it can also become overly zealous and wrongly accused innocent person.

I received a visit from two policemen many years ago. They asked me about my activities a few days earlier. I explained to them that I was looking for my Corella which flew off in a strong gust. Being a tame bird, and it had done it a few times before, I decided to drive around town, very slowly, to search for it. I stopped under big trees and called out, and also left some notices in letter boxes. I made the mistake of asking a boy near the park if he saw a white parrot at the park. He ignored me and move off. I didn't think much of it.

Then the boy's mother reported me to the police, and hence their visit. There was a very interesting and nasty twist to the story. Apparently it was reported that I actually asked the boy to get inside my car! So either the boy spiced up the story, or the mother did, or it was lost in translation along the way!

It was lucky that I actually knew one of the police officers, and he knew I did have a parrot. After many questions and answers, there was no discrepancy. I was asked to sign a statement, and that was then end of the story.

My conclusion is this... By all means to be observant, but to accuse someone of such nasty crime can be very vicious, and you had better be very sure of what you are doing.

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Alecs girl:

10 Jul 2013 4:59:37pm

My ex husband was a Caucasian, heterosexual, male who molested in very own daughters. I didn't find out until my girls were adults. I never had an inkling.
Most paedophiles and perverts are exceptionally good at hiding their dark sides and a child who knows nothing else from birth wouldn't realize at that time, that there was anything abnormal in what was happening to him.
So Ginger, don't feel bad, you were doing what you thought was right. You were fooled by experts, as many of us are.

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Trev:

10 Jul 2013 5:01:01pm

Reading all of the comments so far,it's pretty plain that people are not blaming the journo,and rightly so.The story was reported as she saw it at the time,who would have thought...

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Mark Michael:

10 Jul 2013 5:13:43pm

A very touching read, it was unfortunate though that the "real faces behind the masks" were unveiled after Ms Ginger conducted the interview. Not unless she found it out during the conversation, she could have been a hero and somewhat broke the global paedophilia ring early on.

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Naomi Cartledge:

10 Jul 2013 5:33:40pm

Ginger, you are a brave wonderful woman, who took people at face value. Nobody has the right to blame you for any of this - nobody! There are wonderful gay people who have children and love and protect them, as there are straight parents doing the same. You're right in calling these two as being evil - that's exactly what they are. Like you I feel so sad and outraged for this little boy. I'd like to think he's being surrounded by loving, caring people and is receiving counselling or ?? to help him! Don't listen to the haters! They only compound the crimes by adding hatred towards you. Best wishes and take care of you!

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matt:

10 Jul 2013 5:43:22pm

Since this story came to light I've been reliving the horrors of the abuse I suffered as a child. I am a gay man as well, so this story has been especially troubling for all the hatred and homophobia its whipped up. Ginger, I totally empathise with how you feel as I'd feel the same way myself. Its the ones who hide in plain sight who are the most evil.

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A Cremona:

10 Jul 2013 5:51:01pm

Dear Ginger,

My heart goes out to you for the guilt and uncertainty that plagues you daily.

Your initial interest in the subject of gay rights is not in vain. So many couples, gay couples, would love a child and it is not easy.

My heart breaks looking at the photo of Boy1. They look like a happy family. It is sad on so many levels that these two men abused the trust of the community and their own child.

I am gay. I have always been gay. I have been with the same man for the past ten years and I have thought about having a child almost every day for the past 5 years.

The drama for me is exactly what happened here. Can i raise a child surrounded by a sometimes cruel community which will level accusations of pedophilia and poor upbringing, just because they have 2 gay parents? I dont know if i could do it to a child - expose them to bigotry out of the selfishness of wanting a family for myself.

I sincerely hope you dont lose hope for gay families. I am not a pedophile. Neither is my partner. I would wager that most men who identify as Gay are not Pedophiles.

Nonetheless these two men have damaged a very delicate situation as is and have lent to the stereotype that gays are pedophiles.

I hope we all can live in a world with greater understanding and one in which sexual preference does not factor into parental worthiness.

With that said, a better way of weeding out those who want to abuse the system and their children would be wonderful.

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David Smith:

10 Jul 2013 5:53:18pm

Ginger love, I feel you did the best with what you knew at the time. The issue is complex, and so will your recovery from this experience. Good luck and warm thoughts to you.

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Lee:

10 Jul 2013 6:01:26pm

Ginger, I completely understand how you feel. Seriously, take a perspective breath, hug a loved one; you did nothing wrong, and many things right. You're human and not responsible for the acts of others, nor are you the 'law'. You are also not on trial to the many faceless comments on here who in your situation, would probably have done the same things - sadly these people will never actually truly take the time to develop insight into the complex issue.

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John in Brisbane:

10 Jul 2013 6:04:56pm

Thanks for telling this story Ginger.

I'm sure that part of being wise is identifying the traps of some of the more primal parts of our nature and consciously deciding not to go down that path. Most people are good. Some are bad enough or hurt you enough that it can shake your beliefs. If you do become more cynical and distrustful, then their negativity has spread a little more. Being upset but choosing not to let it change you is unspeakably awesome Ginger. You have both my sympathy and admiration.

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Craig Mc:

10 Jul 2013 6:05:22pm

I have some sympathy for Ginger - after all, these monsters originally fooled Customs professionals as well. However, part of the reason she fell for their story is the same reason Dan Rather fell for the TANG forgeries. Because she wanted to believe them.

If she ever wants to be a great journalist, she'll need to fight that urge, and dig into people she identifies with as deeply as she would do if they were sworn enemies.

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S:

10 Jul 2013 6:26:01pm

I can't see how you could have done anything differently.
You took it at face value and weren't to know of the hidden evil.
And whether people like it or not - as a reporter you are required to report stories from all angles and without bias.
If the media were to refrain from covering gay rights stories those opposing gay rights would not have a platform to complain about. It wouldn't change a thing and it would be wrong.
I too am a mother, heterosexual and a Christian in the true sense. The New Testament marks the refutation of Mosaic law and put Leviticus and co. back in the dark ages.
Come on everybody take a leaf out of Christ's book and love thy neighbour for it is not your place to judge!

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Karen Goderie :

10 Jul 2013 6:31:18pm

I am a health professional and mum of 5 - sexual abuse is particularly close matter to me. I applaud Ginger for writing the follow-up article. Shows some guts I think. from my own experience of those I care about that quite often there is a good reason that such a couple are having barriers to adoption. I am confident that you will come away truly investigative after this. For this poor little boy my heart bleeds - I think of him often and pray he's being looked after.
Statistics have been raised. Sadly there has no been as much research about this as there should be. From the convictions rate proportionally gay men make up a significant part of the convictions (not gay women who like all women are statistically very small in relation to sexual abuse). I think it goes back to we need to very careful who we allow to adopt children. The child's welfare has to come first over any ones' rights.

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- OUB :
  
  10 Jul 2013 8:03:49pm
  
  In response to your last sentence DoCS and all need to re-examine their philosophy on children being returned to abusive parents as well. It appears to me that Stolen Generation arguments have had some very sad outcomes.
  
  Alert moderator
Mike (the other one):

10 Jul 2013 6:44:22pm

It's becoming very apparent that when it comes to the issue of procreation and/ or child raising we need to be doing what we do so well in this country, that is we need to establish a system of standards, rules and regulations enshrined in legislation and enforced by an investigative and policing body. The system should include some sort of cadetship, apprenticeship or degree of at least four years duration, psychological screening, permit to procreate, license to possess, five year renewals regular society worthiness checks, formal ongoing education (with an attached points system and exams).

We do it for just about everything else so we can control things but we don't control the most fundamental cause of all our problems, which is ourselves and uncontrolled human breeding which so often leads to poor child raising.

Of course another option is to fall back on traditional standards.

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Mark another survivor:

10 Jul 2013 6:52:06pm

Ginger, you have a conscience. Keep up the good work.

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Whitey:

10 Jul 2013 7:02:06pm

It's unfortunate that the debate over gay adoption is muddied by the adoption by two pedophiles. My view is that most pedophiles identify as hetro, so this horrible situation has no place in the gay adoption debate. I personally believe that the rights of people to be adoptive parents should run second to the rights of an adoptee child to have a mother and a father, but we shouldn't muddy the waters by bringing in this particular circumstance, which I dont believe is relevant to the gay adoption debate.

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will:

10 Jul 2013 7:05:09pm

I hope boy 1 gets the support he needs. Sadly these are cyclical events (in the majority) as the abusers are (in the majority) abused themselves.
Breaking these cycles has to be a major focus in our society otherwise it's just all a finger pointing exercise, where everyone loses.
I have seen successful same sex parenting (just not in Australia), but it is hard work, and it is different, needing much focus on certain issues (such as masculine and feminine attributes and exposure to them). However, the countries where this exists have a much less conservative and media dependant attitude, and a much more effective, cohesive and holistic education system.

So, I hope that Boy 1 gets the all support and correct love he needs from our potentially great country, because it's OUR responsibility to ensure that. Not some-one else's.
If you can donate to something local, do it, if you can volunteer, do it, if you can smile at your neighbour, do it.

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- helen dawson:
  
  10 Jul 2013 11:48:47pm
  
  It is a myth that Perpetrators are child victims themselves.
  This is a defence used by Child Rapists at their Trials to try and garner sympathy during their Court Case to reduce their sentence. It is a lawyers gambit, particularly a well paid lawyers gambit that often works.
  The sad fact is that child victims are very unlikely to become powerful and socially successful adults, and therefore less likely to become predators themselves than the general population. They have a horrendously high suicide rate.
  I have dealt with a suicidal teenager who realised that the 'normal' environment he grew up in, was in fact a pedophile ring. He went to jail for 2 years to ensure that the men who had abused him and the other children were locked away for a very long time. This is a desperate realisation for a teenager, to realise that they have been duped by the adults in their lives into sexual exploitation.
  
  Alert moderator
Bob:

10 Jul 2013 7:09:18pm

These people are so sneaky, so brazen the reporter could have no idea the evil they project.
Unwittingly this story, they used this to bluster further their credibility.
They are convicted in jail unable to perpetrate such monstrous acts again.
The reporter knew as much as the neighbour, absolutely nothing.
it's a disgusting occurrence that has nothing to do with homosexual life style
It's just evil, and evil has no preference.

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CharlieT:

10 Jul 2013 7:24:09pm

Ginger, please don't ever think you have a reason to think you even could have even noticed something was amiss. While I may not be using the correct terminology here, 'sociopaths' are exactly that because they are acutely aware that what they are doing is not acceptable (let alone illegal), so they have remarkable skill in concealing their terrible actions from the general public. While not on the same level as atrocity, I have experienced abuse at the hands of a sociopath, in the way of an ex. An intelligent guy from a well-respected family, he was very adept at concealing his ways to people - being the ever patient and consummate gentleman whenever others were around, never raising his voice or showing any signs of aggression. Close friends and family - some who'd come to stay with us for periods of time - had absolutely no idea. So it is completely inconceivable that you would have had any inkling as to what was happening in that family. I've come to realise that we actually truly know very little about anyone.

And another point... This article, and many of the comments (the discriminatory and hateful ones, in particular) has made me ponder another issue... I wonder how the discrimination against homosexuals, and particularly, in the past, how society had so comprehensively dismissed homosexuality as being 'legitimate', has served to cause psychological trauma to people during their formative years, which then results in them being more prone to paedophilia later in life...? Perhaps the teasing, the bullying, that they are made to feel that they are 'sub-standard' and need to conceal their natural tendencies - contributes to their psychological problems?

(And to be clear - I am not of the belief that homosexuals are more likely to be paedophiles, or abuse children, than heterosexuals. I firmly believe homosexuals are just as capable of providing a stable, loving family environment than heterosexuals. Nor am I excusing the actions of paedophiles - suggesting they can 'blame' their childhood. Everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions, and get professional assistance if they need it. But I'm asking this from a 'why' perspective, in the interests of prevention...)

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Baker Boy:

10 Jul 2013 7:38:42pm

The only positive out of this was that one of the perpetrators has been given 40 years in a US jail. I would be extremely surprised if he had received even half of that in an Aussie court. Thank god he was charged in the US and not here. Australia; the country of the wet lettuce-leaf approach to criminal justice.

As for their gayness or otherwise; I have read many stories of mothers and their de-facto?s abusing (murdering) kids. Maybe mums and step-dads should be banned?

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- helen dawson:
  
  10 Jul 2013 11:50:23pm
  
  America extradites child sex predators from around the world to prosecute them.
  Australia needs to do the same.
  Round them up in the countries that allow a sex trade in small children, and ship them home to a very uninviting jail.
  
  Alert moderator
Contemplative:

10 Jul 2013 7:50:16pm

A superb piece of reflective journalism from somebody who has innocently been caught in the web of criminals and must surely now be dealing with the complex questions of guilt and culpability that most victims feel from time to time.

Regardless of my opinions on your views it is a rare pleasure to find well balanced and thoughtful journalism of this quality in Australia - devoid of the usual shrill scaremongering and moronically polar positions the media serves up as 'balanced' journalism.

Reflective, informative, thoughtfull and sensative. Ginger, you have risen to the occaision and you can be proud.

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Allan:

10 Jul 2013 7:51:34pm

Ginger,

Sorry to hear you receive such abuse and not surprised some people perceive some connection between peadaphilia and being gay. It has been arounds for years. I am gay and was horrified when I saw the story and expected this response. Stop listening to them. Continue what you are doing. Challenge such stupid thought processes. Together we can and will get past this. Start praying for boy1.

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A Gunton:

10 Jul 2013 7:57:15pm

On the issue of homophobia - criticism of homosexual individuals and parents is not necessarily caused by homophobia as the author seems to suggest. Although there are those who will condemn homosexuals out of fear and/or hatred there are plenty of people who are critical of homosexuality who are not motivated by fear and/or hate.

There is also plenty of evidence to suggest that same-sex parents do not do as well as opposite-sex, natural parents and those studies that say otherwise have serious methodological flaws (e.g., self-selection bias).

It is also essential that on the issue of same-sex parenting that we don't accept anecdotal evidence as a good enough reason to support our views (positive or negative) - it is simply unreliable. Just because you know some good/bad homosexuals does not mean all or even most are good/bad - if this article/comments section tells us anything it is that we really don't what people are like - even those we are closest to.

Lastly, although I don't agree with her reasons for doing the story I don't think the author is to blame for not recognising that the boy was being abused.

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Emma:

10 Jul 2013 7:59:45pm

Ginger I can imagine how bad you feel. That poor little boy. It's a pity though that you have sort to give voice to your "side" of this tragedy at this point in time. There is something distasteful about your reflection. This little boy should be at the front of all our minds at this time. Frankly, your feelings of guilt or any political point you want to make about "discrimination" against homosexuals, has no place in this tragedy. I'm inclined to agree with " The Other McCain" blog's analysis of your reporting. I suggest readers google it.

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Allan:

10 Jul 2013 8:00:37pm

Good article Ginger. As has been said, don't listen to the haters - these men fooled a lot of people for a very long time.

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Teekay:

10 Jul 2013 8:38:54pm

Previous articles and now this piece by author Ginger, has deeply disturbed me. Firstly, there is no way this is a gender biased issue. I find it hard to believe there are such depraved people around, but unfortunately there are and we could be reading about either/or gender combination when it comes to this type of such awful abuse. I know it must hurt to be fooled by a parent's seemingly loving commentary, but, I can understand how it happens. We can't turn back the clock, so be thankful Boy 1 has been rescued from such slime and hopefully attain a semblance of a normal life.

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Arr:

10 Jul 2013 8:39:10pm

These stories about our "failure to detect" are very important. Curiosity, vigilance and and critical reflection of our interactions is the key to discovery. You are rushing from one story to another, so you don't get a chance to think about your own article, but we, the readers, have that time. With this great way of at least partially interacting with the story, perhaps more of us can "smell a rat" with journalists' stories. You didn't cause any of the pain, in fact, you may have been the person that cracked the lid open, which is more than the rest of us did. You got close and you might be luckier next time now that you've had this bit of experience. Good luck

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Ayse Balcilar:

10 Jul 2013 8:56:49pm

poverty leads to women prostituting themselves, & children ... there are countless cases in Russia & Turkey, so called modern democratic countries ... here in Australia too, the number of brothels is endless, Kings Cross/Sydney too witnesses countless school age children, & homeless children, runaways ... this is demonic democracy, which offers no protection for poor, homeless women & children ... prostitution/sex trafficking of young women into Austalia is another related issue, yet no one jumps up and down, no journalist, about this prostitution freedom in Australia, the west, the so called democratic free countries, prostitution is a crime, full stop, it should never have been legalised or decriminalised, the root of the problem, poverty has been addressed by Islam, via it's zekak/charity principle, prositution, homelessness would NEVER be tolerated, ever, under any conditions, please do another story on the global prostitution industry, this story of one boy is just the tip of the ice-berg - there are thousands more little 2 year old boys & girls out there being raped, by Australians & Americans, gays & straights ... wake up democracy, end the freedoms to prostition laws!

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David Ferstat:

10 Jul 2013 9:13:26pm

When I first heard the news reports of this case from the US, my first reaction, perhaps predictably, was horror at the cruelty inflicted on this child by two people who'd promised to care for him.

My second reaction was dismay, when I realised that this case would encourage all those who mistakenly conflate homosexuality with paedophilia. After all, those who actually know anything at all about homosexuality have been trying for years, nay, decades, to separate the two concepts in the public awareness. Now we find ourselves having the same fight all over again.

Ms Gorman, as you intellectually recognise, you could not have known the nature of the two men you interviewed, and so there was nothing you could have done to save Boy 1.

Of course, intellectual knowledge is little refuge against the emotional, and illogical, belief that you SHOULD have seen something; that you SHOULD have been able to help that child.

I can do little to help you with your distress; perhaps nobody can, save to remind you that you could NOT, in fact, have done other than you did.

And, sadly, as you've seen, the homophobes and the peanut gallery (strange how much overlap there is) have decided that they now have someone new to torment, and so are doing their best to lower the tone of the debate, with strident calls long on emotion, and oh, so short on reason.

Perhaps a paraphrasing of James Cameron is appropriate here:

"Listen, and understand. The homophobes are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or shame. And they absolutely will not think, ever, while they breath."

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Patrick:

10 Jul 2013 9:38:50pm

Ginger, fascinating and troubling story. I'm sorry that you doing your job has presented you with such a troubling outcome. I hope you don't let it get to you too much.

Sadly two professions, journalism and politics, have a work place that is full of hateful, hurtful comments that would never be tolerated in other workplaces.

Please people, try and show some respect for someone doing a job with the best of intentions.

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sue:

10 Jul 2013 10:03:43pm

Wow, so many emails. It should not come as a surprise that that happened. Anyone can tell you it is not a couple of Gay guys but a bigger picture. Ask any homeless kid on the streets? It is Doctors, lawyers, Police, Labourers, Politicians and many others who exploit children. It is endemic in our society! One of the most popular gigs in high class brothels for a large price, called Fantasy, is whipping the crap out of a female dressed in a school uniform. Go figure?

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Anthony:

10 Jul 2013 10:33:52pm

Ginger, I'm very sorry you've had to go through this. These rings are often hidden within the depths of the internet and discretion is second nature for these criminals. I think the fact that you've brought attention to both gay adoption and this abhorrent crime shows both your excellent journalism skills and your compassion. Keep up the good work, Cousin!

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Mark M:

10 Jul 2013 10:40:11pm

I am not married, I have no children, so in some people's minds I have no right to comment on these topics. I do however work in the media and am amazed by people's vitriol towards an honest person doing their job. I have been involved with stories where all seems above board, only to find out later, it is not. Ginger and the ABC had the best of intentions by reporting on an issue that our main stream media would not touch. There are many aspects of our society, all have stories to tell, and the world can not only be viewed through rose coloured glasses. It also seems that some believe the media should have x-ray eyes on every issue and have no emotions at all. To Ginger, keep telling the stories of our life, you will continue to live, learn and love. For love, honesty and compassion are the way to combat hate.

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oneofmany:

10 Jul 2013 11:31:22pm

The author has nothing to reproach herself for. But I am amazed that people can be aware of the rate at which sexual abuse of children and sexual assault of adults occurs andt hen continue to see these things as rare. They are not. I don't use the term evil, exploitative and profoundly dehumanizing, thse crimes are, disurbingly, perpetrated against a large number of people. It isn't rare, the perception that it is is one of the societal biases that contributes to the enabling of perpetrators. I wish people would understand this.

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nikx:

10 Jul 2013 11:54:28pm

This is an extremely candid piece of journalism. A follow-up as we don't often see it really.
Removed from the situation, that is of an atrocity beyond words, this can and does happen to ANY of us.
How many abusers, rapist or murderers live in our society, how many victims do their best to assist in fooling us with a brave or even a happy face? We cannot know. This journalist did not commit a mistake, she met the couple on a completely different perspective and once. How many others have they fooled, including authorities in different countries?! and the fact the pair is gay has only significance in the context that they pervertly used it to actively seek attention and sympathy - while committing the worst of crimes against what had legally become "their own child". And unfortunately, there are many cases where blood related, hetero parents of both gender and sometimes together committed the same or similar crimes.

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Richie:

11 Jul 2013 2:22:11am

Ginger

You are a brave and fearless reporter and this article will help all survivors of abuse to realise that what they experienced ( in the end when the truth is found ) does not define them.

I am sure "boy one" will not in any way ever blame you for not having the ability to see beyond the evil cover up of deception and lies that Perpetuators use in the grooming process.

What we need are more articles exposing the evil of child abuse.

Keep Calm and Carry On !

Richie "a adult survivor"

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VoR:

11 Jul 2013 4:36:01am

The ABC's own program, Media Watch, had a segment on how the old approach of blurring a face is inadequate protection. I easily found the child's face.
How could the ABC do this, particularly in an article that mentions several times the police and the need for privacy?

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M.S:

11 Jul 2013 5:57:19am

I hope these two individuals are punished for abusing a child like this and are not able to reoffend. I also hope Ginga that you don't see this as your fault, we thank you and the ABC for this story and your honesty.

Don't associate this, or unstable family situations, to same sex couples who want to adopt in the same way some very warped commenters are insinuating. It has NOTHING to do with that at all. This is not Political Correctness (just another two words to silence someone you don't agree with), its common sense. Shame on those who advocate for discriminating what makes a stable family from a lack of understanding. Child abuse is not a by-product of sexuality, religious faith, gender, relationship status or any other matter of boxes and categories we fit people into and associate. It is about impunity, abuse, negligence, and it is a CHOICE that one or more should punished for when perpetrated, and for victims to be protected from always.

I grew up with friends parented from same-sex couples, and they had a more stable home life then I did. If you don't like that, build a time-machine and go back to the hetero-normative misery you climbed out from.

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James In Footscray:

11 Jul 2013 6:44:42am

'The more I researched, the more compelled I was to cover the issue.'

That might be the problem - a journalist pursuing an issue they feel strongly about, to 'prove' what they already believe.

Maybe the first rule of journalism is to be skeptical, and to try to knock any belief down, whatever that belief might be.

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Alan Baxter:

11 Jul 2013 7:39:59am

Many people's expectation is that a news service should primarily be investigative. I know it is not. It is apparent that it is primarily constructed from press releases, syndicated releases and pieces like your original one, where you had a picture you wished to paint and visited a community to pick the colours ("local colour" as it gets called). I think what you originally broadcast was much more about you than anyone else - it was about your gratitude for the things you had and your focus was on that. Your original motivation was kind, compassionate and gracious. Your original motivation was not to show the world as it was, so it did not. But the audience (or at least some of it) doesn't buy into that. You are a reporter (which they assumes mean you should be an "investigative" reporter) so you should solve crimes. As an ex-reader of "Boy's Own Annuals" I have to confess that I basically agree with that sentiment. Domestic abuse is quite common in Australia. My suspicion is that much of the raw anger you are experiencing is fueled by grief or guilt. Just as you had your own motivation to make your story, they have theirs. Perhaps they are people crying out for someone to save them. Or stop them. Chin up. Immerse yourself in friends. Never get confused about who the bad people really are. Regards, Alan

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Cathy:

11 Jul 2013 7:49:58am

paedophiles are very good at hiding their actions from the world. It was the home environment that you described that would be what said it for me, the fact you sat between them, not normal in my experience. Just be kind to yourself and love and protect all children and the world will be a better place

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Cathy:

11 Jul 2013 7:52:52am

The story of this little boy has kept me up nights. Maybe because of the level of abuse this child has suffered or maybe because this happened in my home town. Regardless, the true story here is how amazingly clever these predators are. They present just like you and me. The fact that the abusers in this case were a gay couple is just noise and muddy the true story. The lesson here is that we should ALL be more vigilant and try and protect ALL kids from scum like these.

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Amanda-Sue Markham:

11 Jul 2013 10:46:31am

Ginger, it would seem you were sought out and manipulated by these two men. I am inclined to think that the fact that they were stopped by customs and questioned in this manner scared them that authorities were suspicious....and who knows maybe they did have an alert come up as persons of interest to the US....who isn't these days?!
As a result they sought the opportunity to generate acceptance and sympathy from the community. This is exactly what paediphiles do. They seek out positions where they will have social admiration. Brazen, yes.
I would also suggest that a deep concern for the rights of children is behind much of the outrage you have experienced and to say it is all attributed to homophobia is a little blind-sided. Same-Sex adoption laws now mean an open door to paedophile rings to exploit the new laws.....and who will be able to pick genuine couples from those in organised rings? You didn't. Sadly, children are even more exposed by well meaning legislators. I don't even want to think about it, but these rings are rife all over the world and we cannot afford to be complacent and see this as a one-off, sadly.How do we stop this now?

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A journalist's second thoughts

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