@Keith

JEFFB- ” Jews are roughly the same size and same economic demographics as Scots in America. They have roughly the same amount of cultural, political and economic power.”

Do you always just make stuff up? The above statement is so ludicrous that it is an insult to the intelligence. Those Scots sure manage to keep a low profile for all of their influence on foreign policy, finance, the media, etc. And their campaign contributions!

Sorry it is absolutely true. Good match in most respects. As for the low profile Scottish power isn’t talked about as Scottish power. It is talked about as American and not differentiated on the basis of ethnic subgroup. And that is precisely the point and why the discussion of Jewish power becomes antisemitic. There is an underlying belief that Jews aren’t entitled to fully participate in the national discourse and try and shape policy in line with their beliefs.

” Zionism falls in the anti-Judaic camp”.
With this statement, I thought JeffB was being antiZionist until I read the rest.

Mr. Amro is a living courageous example of the great human spirit that cannot be extinguished. You can’t take away freedom from one group of human beings forever. 50 years is not forever.

Ms. RealityMizRetard said on September 19, 2017, at 8:57 pm:

hyperbole much?

Please! There isn’t enough “hyperbole” in all the known universe to express just how beyond Zionist retarded your assertions really are.

In which fat bastard gets his ass handed to him by Ejjay, Old Geezer, Misterioso, and Roha! Drop the microphone!

Talkback said on September 20, 2017, at 9:51 am:

Why don’t you counter Waters’ ARGUMENTS regarding Israel with verifiable facts instead of resorting to “insults and aggressive hyperbole”?

She doesn’t because she can’t.

@Phil

Agree with your primary point that the American Jewish community has decided to make Zionism part of Judaism and Judaism part of Zionism. I would quibble a bit with this line though:

The American Jewish Committee is saying that the Jewish religion commands Jews to support the occupation of Palestinian lands and persecution of Palestinians, and oppose equal rights for Palestinians (ideas embedded in BDS). These policies foster hatred of Jews; and the AJC fosters that process by saying these are Jewish commitments.

The AJC isn’t saying that, you are saying that. The AJC is saying they oppose BDS. BDS is a confrontational leftist groups. There are all sorts of confrontational leftist groups people oppose even if they do support the underlying demands. I was opposed to the Iraqi occupation and oppossed to A.N.S.W.E.R. I agree with Black Lives Matter that independent DAs and not County DAs should be prosecuting police involved shootings, while still opposing the group. I agree with a lot of Al Qaeda’s critique about American policy. I think the Sunni Resistance and later ISIS have legitimate grievances.

Saying you oppose a group is not the same as saying you oppose the demands when phrased in the most inclusive way possible. All 3 of BDS’s demands in isolation are reasonable. There are broad coalitions including a majority of the AJC that would support weakened forms of any one of them.

Me: “You don’t have a problem, with “long term ethnic populations of non-citizens” when they are Non Palestinian Jewish settlers which illegaly immigrated and settled in occupied Palestine, right?”

JeffB: “There are no non-Palestinian Jewish settlers outside of annexed territory and Area-C.”

There are non-Palestinian Jewish settlers within occupied or illegaly annexed territories of Palesetine. And you don’t have a problem with “long term ethnic populations of non-citizens” within occupied Palestine as long as they are Jewish.

JeffB: “So your claim such a situation is happening is as we’ve discussed before, while quite popular is a tortured abuse of language.”

You can’t hide your racist driven hipocrisy with your perversion of the situation, JeffB.

JeffB: “As for Area-C I support resolving this through annexation of Area-C and the granting of full Israeli citizenship to all residents of Area-C normalizing the situation.”

Of course you support the illegal annexation of more land while Isarel tries to get rid of its natives by demolishing their homes and preventing all Palestinians to access the natural resources of their land which Israel enabling an illegal access for Jews that vioolates international law. It#s like you said before: “And if you want to call that Nazi policy I’ll happily stand with the Nazis on that issue.”

Jeff B: “Nope not at all like that. Anti-Nazism wanted regime change in Germany not the total destruction of Germany as a people, as a nation and as a culture. ”

Anti-Zionism wants regime change, too, and not the total destruction of Israel. Anti-zionists are not like Zionists who nearly destroyed all of Palestine as a CONSTITUIVE people, as a real nation.

JeffB: “But anti-Nazims never asserted that German territory should be swamped with foreigners, who would then forever govern the Germans permanently depriving them of any self determination. And that would only be if any survived at all. ”

Good point, JeffB! Anti-Zionists never asserted that Palestinian territory should be swamped with Jewish foreigners, who would then forever govern the Palestinians permanently depriving them of any self determination. And that would only be if any survived at all.

JeffB: “The anti-Apartheid movement rejected not supported your contention that where people could legally live in South Africa should be determined by their ethnicity.”

I knew that it wouldn’t take long for you to lie. It’s not even MY contention but international law that CITIZENS OF AN OCCUPYNG POWER are not allowed to settle in OCCUPIED territories. It doesn’t have anything to do with their ethnicity. Are you to stupid, dishonest or both that you have to constantly ignore this and distort my position?

Your are only concern ed with rights that illegal settlers should have as long as they are Jewish, but not with the rights of the occupied Nonjews that these settlers and their settler state constantly violate to maintain illegal settlements and the illegal transformation or confiscation of Palestinian land into only-for-Jews state land. Why don’t you make a case for Nazis, too?

And the fundamental difference between South Africa’s Apartheid and Israel’s Apartheid is that Afrikaners where not interested in conquering land only for themselves WHILE EXPELLING its natives. Afrikaners wanted to keep the natives segregated WHILE EXPLOITING them. It comes with no surprise that it is easier not to reject the presense of illegal settlers if INEQUALITY is the main issue and not EXPULSION, DENATIONALIZATION and ILLEGAL ANNEXATION. That’s why Israel’s Apartheid is worse than South African ever was.

JeffB: “Your movement preaches nothing but hatred and darkness.”

ROFL. Says the Zionist JeffB of all people whose movement preaches permanent ethnic cleansing, illegal annexation, illegal settlements, dispossession, confiscation, denationalization or revoking residency, disenfrenchisment and permanent inequality expressed as Jewish supremacism. Or to keep it short a “Jewish democracy”.

Btw. I’m not an “anti-Zionist”. I’m and individual who is pro universal human rights and pro international law. Just the opposite of a mindless Zionist sheep like you who needs to accuse others of “hatred and darkness” because the expanding plank in your eye has started to penetrate your brain.

JEFFB- ” Jews are roughly the same size and same economic demographics as Scots in America. They have roughly the same amount of cultural, political and economic power.”

Do you always just make stuff up? The above statement is so ludicrous that it is an insult to the intelligence. Those Scots sure manage to keep a low profile for all of their influence on foreign policy, finance, the media, etc. And their campaign contributions!

eljay: So right. But the Right knows how to use even human rights these days.

JeffB: I’m just going to avoid you. You’re hysterical, like Netanyahu. And radioactive, like Chernobyl. We are going to have to agree to disagree on whether to support evil or embrace it.

Elie Wiesel rightfully protested the desecration of Jewish graves anywhere in the world, but he had nothing to say when the Arab cemetery at Deir Yassin was bulldozed along with hundreds of others throughout Palestine. Nor did Mr. Wiesel publicly mention that from November 1947 to January 1949, he worked as a journalist for the Irgun newspaper, Zion in Kamf (Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, October/ November 1997) and was surely informed by his employers of what occurred at Deir Yassin on 9 April 1948.

Also:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2010/05/27/open-letter-elie-wiesel/

New York Review of Books, May 27, 2010
“An Open Letter to Elie Wiesel”
By Avner Inbar and Assaf Sharon

Excerpts:

“In a recent public letter to President Obama, Elie Wiesel urged the President not to ‘pressure’ Israel to cease settlement activity in Jerusalem. According to Wiesel:

” ‘For me, the Jew that I am, Jerusalem is above politics. It is mentioned more than six hundred times in Scripture—and not a single time in the Koran. Its presence in Jewish history is overwhelming…. To many theologians, it IS Jewish history…. It belongs to the Jewish people and is much more than a city, it is what binds one Jew to another in a way that remains hard to explain. When a Jew visits Jerusalem for the first time, it is not the first time; it is a homecoming…. Contrary to certain media reports, Jews, Christians and Muslims ARE allowed to build their homes anywhere in the city. The anguish over Jerusalem is not about real estate but about memory.’ ”

“The views expressed by Wiesel are not shared by a growing movement of Israelis who oppose the continued expansion of settlements and who have been protesting the eviction by the Israeli government of Palestinian residents of the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah. These Israelis have responded to Mr. Wiesel in the following letter. Among the one hundred signers are Israel Prize Laureates Avishai Margalit and Zeev Sternhell, former Knesset Speaker and Jewish Agency Chairman Avrum Burg, Professors David Shulman and Moshe Halbertal, former Knesset member Zehava Galan, and other Jerusalemites, many of whom are prominent intellectuals and academics.”

“Dear Mr. Wiesel: “We write to you from Jerusalem to convey our frustration, even outrage, at your recently published letter on Jerusalem. We are Jewish Jerusalemites—residents by choice of a battered city, a city used and abused, ransacked time and again first by foreign conquerors and now by its own politicians. We cannot recognize our city in the sentimental abstraction you call by its name.”

“We invite you to our city to view with your own eyes the catastrophic effects of the frenzy of construction. You will witness that, contrary to some media reports, Arabs are not allowed to build their homes anywhere in Jerusalem. You will see the gross inequality in allocation of municipal resources and services between east and west. We will take you to Sheikh Jarrah, where Palestinian families are being evicted from their homes to make room for a new Jewish neighborhood, and to Silwan, where dozens of houses face demolition because of the Jerusalem Municipality’s refusal to issue building permits to Palestinians.”

Wouldn’t want to confuse folks by contradicting the Weak Little David myth…since we plan on using it as long as we can.

@andrew r

So you don’t have much of a basis for pretending the New Yishuv and the existing former Ottoman society were going to integrate without the interference of Arab Nationalism. No Zionist leader at the time was even taking that moral highground – they viewed the presence of non-Jewish persons in the hypothetical “Jewish” state as an obstacle, full stop, and wanted to create a separate society.

You haven’t shown anything of the sort. Hertzl himself said humanitarian and inclusive things throughout his career. I agree his writings are mixed but that’s what you showed they are mixed.

If want Zionist leaders who clearly favored an integrated solution: Judah Magnes (founded Hebrew University), Albert Hyamson (diplomat), Arthur Ruppin (founded Tel Aviv), Hugo Bergmann (dean Hebrew University)… those people existed. The Yishuv prior to the violence of the 1920s was not dominated by the hardcore leaders we think of today. There was far more diversity and less organization. Militarization of the Jewish community forced greater unity, that militarization and thus the unity came from the violence. To use modern language, Palestinians radicalized the Jews, including the majority of Palestinian Jews who were not Zionist, and pushed them into the arms of more hardcore elements.

More importantly this plan started to fail in 1927 with the citrus boom. The Yishuv 1927-36 was evolving into an inclusive system. People like Ben Gurion were unhappy about it to be sure, but the reality is it was happening which is proof it could have happened. As an aside we had a similar situation in the 1970s in the West Bank where an inclusive society was being created there. There of course were some differences and inequalities but the settlers early on sought to live among the Palestinians in peace and friendship. Their wasn’t the hatred on both sides that exists today.

Obviously transfer is always discussed when there is ethnic tension. But the serious conversations about transfer, detailed maps and plans, weren’t created until the early 1940s. They were created quite explicitly in reaction to the 36-9 revolt. They would have existed but not been acted upon without the 47-9 war.

Things could have been a lot better. Choices have consequences.

Did the Russian inspectors write those reports in English, or are the reports translated from Russian?

@Marnie

Re: JeffB

“Yawn….” PRECISELY, WELL AND TRULY STATED!!

Iran is in Syria In accord with the wishes of the Syrian government. The US is in Syria in defiance of the wishes of the Syrian government. It is the US who is the invader in Syria.

@fatbastard

Israel “is in Syria.”

Apart from Palestinian lands, Israel is illegally occupying Syria’s Golan Heights and Lebanon’s Shebaa Farms/Kfarshuba hills.

Rather than emulate the “Jewish State”, the P.A. should focus on upholding the ideals of justice, accountability and equality.

“Jeffb is lying through his teeth. ”

No! Say it ain’t so! How can I cope with this disillusionment, this assault on my youthful innocence?

Ms Reality: “hyperbole much? i guess you tried to top my by posting your own infantile and stupid comment.”

Nope. I succesfully made fun of your infantile and stupid comment and its underlying ludicrous logic that if someone is wrong about something that has nothing to do with Israel than he must be wrong about Israel, too.

Ms Reality: “To review …”

Why don’t you counter Waters’ ARGUMENTS regarding Israel with verifiable facts instead of resorting to “insults and aggressive hyperbole”? In return I would abstain from calling you being “arrogant and wrong” and a “narcissist with poor judgment.”

(All quotes are your own words)

@RoHa

Pinegap was an intelligence site not a military site. Intelligence oversight is exclusively through the intelligence committees in Congress. The USA intelligence community does not (at least as far as anyone can know) have independent nuclear capabilities. Bush and Obama remilitarized the Intelligence services (reversing the policy of the 1970s away from this) but I highly doubt they have gone anywhere near that far.

Iran is in Syria legally and doing a wonderful job of eliminating ISIS and saving lives of innocent civilians.

Israel is in Syria, Lebanon and Palestine illegally and targetting innocent civilians in violation of International Law and International Humanitarian Law. Not to mention the Hague and Geneva conventions.

Big difference. Israel is not the only problem in the region but it is a major problem and distabilizing factor.

@Oldgeezer

I see so in your world reports like: http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2000s/ADA491505.pdf
don’t exist and the media doesn’t report on issues like: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/13/nuclear-unit-in-montana-fails-inspection-air-force-general-says-it-fumbled-key.html

|| Arafatbastard: Iran is in Syria. It’s not playing Candy Crush there. ||

You’re right: It’s working to re-stabilize a sovereign state deliberately destabilized and devastated by war-mongering America and its terrorist allies.

Nathan: “Busying oneself in proving that the State of Israel shouldn’t have been founded, or that the settlements should be removed, or the occupation is illegal, or the refugees must be returned, etc, etc is just a total waste of time. ”

Well, how can someone accept a criminal’s atrocities if you don’t ‘busy yourself’ with the atrocitities he wants to be acknowledged as legitimate? Btw. you can reduce Zionism’s atrocities to a century of settler colonialism and denial of self determination of the natives of Palestine. We don’t need to busy ourself with the actual crimes against humanity it needs to commit to maintain this.

Bibi and Trump are different flavours of f*cking nuts.

… I haven’t yet visited Antarctica, but one day I want to go there too because I’ve heard that penguins are also enthusiastic supporters of Israel. …

Who told the King of Israel that penguins are hateful and immoral Zionists?

… You laugh, but penguins have no difficulty recognizing that some things are black and white, are right and wrong. …

I thought I-P was all about “nuances” and complex “narratives”. When did it become “black and white” like penguins?

JeffB: “They have roughly the same amount of cultural, political and economic power. ”

Giraldi – former CIA and counter terrorism specialit says that American Jews are driving American wars.

JeffB: “Finally my definition for “new anti-semitism” is leftist taking traditionally antisemitic / anti-judaic beliefs and modifying them slightly to fit a leftist orientation and updating a bit.”

Your examples are missing the core element of antisemitism. The targeted Jews are targeted for what they do and not because THEY ARE JEWS albeit innocent. With your perverted definition of “new-anti-antisemitism” you only want to slander any accusation against Jewish individuals or interest group as being “antisemitic” only to cover up their atrocities and only because THEY ARE JEWS allthough they are not innocent at all. It’s your accusation of “new-anti-antisemitism” that is based on racism.

Iran is in Syria. It’s not playing Candy Crush there.

eljay: “Or when you say “Israeli public” do you mean “Jews” because they’re the only “Israeli public” that matters?”

Nathan has allready exterminated Nonjews in his mind.

oldgeezer: “Jeffb is lying through his teeth.”

Seems to be a chronic condition. Or even compulsive.

@andrew r

You have a serious misreading of Zionist history if you think a Jewish Agency-ruled Palestine was going to take in enough Jews to forestall the Holocaust.

I’m saying that if Hitler had been presented with a viable means of solving the Jewish question via deportation there wouldn’t have been a Holocaust at all. The Jewish agency would have had global support in their efforts. Moreover the process could have gone much slower. The speed of the mass extermination was driven by Hitler’s fear that time was running out. In the context of a semi-voluntary mass migration taking a generation wouldn’t have been unacceptable. Think about what happened in the Arab countries in the 1950s where the same kinds of anti-Jewish nationalist pressure started to build. In this case because Israel existed there was net emigration with prevented the pressure building up further and there was simply a mass evacuation not a mass extermination.

Well,

“America’s Jews Are Driving America’s Wars”

says former counter-terrorism specialist and military intelligence officer of the CIA Philip Giraldi:
http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/americas-jews-are-driving-americas-wars/

And his article was published on Unz Review website who is Jewish.

|| Nathan: … In any case, the only question that one should ask in journalism is the veracity of the statement. … ||

If “the veracity of the statement” were all that mattered in journalism, Zionism – the statement that people who choose to be Jewish are entitled…
– to a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine; and
– to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them,
…would long ago have been thoroughly discredited.

|| … The point of the article, apparently, is to restate the view that Zionism must be abandoned … ||

The point of the article is a supposition based on Mr. Emanuel’s (at times anti-Semitic) comments:

This mashup of ideas — Jews in the U.S. are the most powerful Jewish community in the history of the world; they have an obligation to advocate for the undocumented and refugees and African-Americans; the Jewish state has shrunk to Tel Aviv; Palestinians are the majority throughout most of the land — seems to me to have an inevitable conclusion. Jews should start pushing for democracy in Israel and Palestine. They’d have to abandon Zionism to do so.

@RoHa

Jeffb is lying through his teeth. The IAEA inspections are limited to a small preapproved/agreed sample of commercial nuclear operations. Any facility which has a national security impact are off limits. The sites to be monitored are changed every couple of years.

Netanyahu doe not know when to quit. Almost every speech for the past few years have been attacking Iran, even acting like Chicken Little, warning the the sky was going to fall, holding up his cartoon bomb. He tried desperately to sabotage Obama’s efforts to get Iran sign the nuclear agreement, shamefully using the congress to achieve his goals. It is now boring, and not working. The levels of hypocrisy that comes from the US and Israel rises by the day. Iran has not attacked it’s neighbors, or any other nation, unlike the US that has bombed many, and killed millions of civilians, and Israel that has attacked it’s neighbors, and tries it’s newest weapons on the poor Palestinian people, and IRAN CANNOT BE TRUSTED WITH DEADLY WEAPONS?
WHO KEEPS BELIEVING THESE HYPOCRITES?

|| Nathan: … It would be rather difficult to convince the Israeli public to give up on the Jewish state … ||

1. Would it really be “rather difficult” to convince non-Jewish Israelis – 20% of the Israeli public – to give up on a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” construct that defines them and treats them as second-class citizens? Or when you say “Israeli public” do you mean “Jews” because they’re the only “Israeli public” that matters?

2. Israelis shouldn’t have to give up on religion-supremacist “Jewish State” because Israel shouldn’t exist as a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in the first place. No state should exist as a supremacist construct of any kind.

Talkback said on September 19, 2017, at 9:37 am:

Ms Reality: “If he’s wrong about his own band, why would he be right about Israel?”

That has to be the most stupid and infantile question I have ever read on Mondoweiss. So if someone is wrong about something which has nothing to do with Isarel he must be wrong about Israel, too. It doesn’t get more stupid, does it? ROFL.

BWAAHAHAHAHA!

This Miz Delusional dimwit is soooo goddamned stoopid! I actually pity the Zionist barrel that had to be scraped to produce a character this frickin’ dumb!

Uri Avnery , at age 94, and still active. Amazing, admirable, and making valid points:

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1505487970

This man is the embodiment of such pure negative energy.

He certainly hit the hasbara talking points without fail!

If the Iranians shut down their non-existent nuclear weapons program then we will know the deal is a success.

“I would think anyone who is an anti-racist would applaud the success of this dialogue.”

In one sentence JeffB explains it all. Of course YOU are comfortable. No surprises here.

Yair Netanyahoo is the less attractive counterpart to Ivanka tRUMP. Always at daddy’s side.

I will happily put you down but not as a Jew. You can’t hide behind your religion Jeffy Boy. You’re just another entitled white man who believes he knows everything. And says he’s Jewish. Nu? Yawn…..

Make it stop!!!! The israelis have been the puppet masters for decades – how can the u.s. remove this thorn in the side of it’s people permanently? Highly unlikely that Dump would go all North Korea on netanyahoo; and not that he should either, I think it’s against the law or something to threaten annhilation of another country, so what else? There is something that isn’t being used wrt israel. Why not?

“U.S. assistance to foreign armed forces comes from two different budgets; therefore, two separate versions of the Leahy amendment have been enacted into law. One covers assistance to foreign forces funded through the State Department foreign assistance budget, and another covers assistance funded out of the Department of Defense budget.

The law covering State Department funded aid is found in Section 620M of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (as amended most recently in January 2014).[7] It states:

“ (a) IN GENERAL. – No assistance shall be furnished under this Act or the Arms Export Control Act to any unit of the security forces of a foreign country if the Secretary of State has credible information that such unit has committed a gross violation of human rights.
(b) EXCEPTION. –The prohibition in subsection (a) shall not apply if the Secretary determines and reports to the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate, the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the House of Representatives, and the Committees on Appropriations that the government of such country is taking effective steps to bring the responsible members of the security forces unit to justice.

(c) DUTY TO INFORM. – In the event that funds are withheld from any unit pursuant to this section, the Secretary of State shall promptly inform the foreign government of the basis for such action and shall, to the maximum extent practicable, assist the foreign government in taking effective measures to bring the responsible members of the security forces to justice.

(d) CREDIBLE INFORMATION. The Secretary shall establish, and periodically update, procedures to

(1) ensure that for each country the Department of State has a current list of all security force units receiving United States training, equipment, or other types of assistance;

(2) facilitate receipt by the Department of State and United States embassies of information from individuals and organizations outside the United States Government about gross violations of human rights by security force units;

(3) routinely request and obtain such information from the Department of Defense, the Central Intelligence Agency, and other United States Government sources;

(4) ensure that such information is evaluated and preserved;

(5) ensure that when an individual is designated to receive United States training, equipment, or other types of assistance the individual’s unit is vetted as well as the individual.

(6) seek to identify the unit involved when credible information of a gross violation exists but the identity of the unit is lacking; and

(7) make publicly available, to the maximum extent practicable, the identity of those units for which no assistance shall be furnished pursuant to subsection (a).
”

The Department of Defense Appropriations version of the Leahy Law (10 U.S. Code § 2249e) reads:[8]

“ (a) In General.—
(1) Of the amounts made available to the Department of Defense, none may be used for any training, equipment, or other assistance for a unit of a foreign security force if the Secretary of Defense has credible information that the unit has committed a gross violation of human rights.

(2) The Secretary of Defense shall, in consultation with the Secretary of State, ensure that prior to a decision to provide any training, equipment, or other assistance to a unit of a foreign security force full consideration is given to any credible information available to the Department of State relating to human rights violations by such unit.

(b) Exception.—The prohibition in subsection (a)(1) shall not apply if the Secretary of Defense, after consultation with the Secretary of State, determines that the government of such country has taken all necessary corrective steps, or if the equipment or other assistance is necessary to assist in disaster relief operations or other humanitarian or national security emergencies.

(c) Waiver.—The Secretary of Defense, after consultation with the Secretary of State, may waive the prohibition in subsection (a)(1) if the Secretary determines that the waiver is required by extraordinary circumstances.

(d) Procedures.—The Secretary of Defense shall establish, and periodically update, procedures to ensure that any information in the possession of the Department of Defense about gross violations of human rights by units of foreign security forces is shared on a timely basis with the Department of State.

(e) Report.—Not later than 15 days after the application of any exception under subsection (b) or the exercise of any waiver under subsection (c), the Secretary of Defense shall submit to the appropriate committees of Congress a report—

(1) in the case of an exception under subsection (b), providing notice of the use of the exception and stating the grounds for the exception; and

(2) in the case of a waiver under subsection (c), describing—

(A) the information relating to the gross violation of human rights; (B) the extraordinary circumstances that necessitate the waiver; (C) the purpose and duration of the training, equipment, or other assistance; and (D) the United States forces and the foreign security force unit involved.

(f) Appropriate Committees of Congress Defined.—In this section, the term “appropriate committees of Congress” means—

(1) the Committee on Armed Services, the Committee on Foreign Relations, and the Committee on Appropriations of the Senate; and

(2) the Committee on Armed Services, the Committee on Foreign Affairs, and the Committee on Appropriations of the House of Representatives.”

Leahy Law – Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy_Law

@Keith —

This post is mainly about groups that still embrace old fashioned anti-judaic and anti-semitic themes. New antisemitism is about the left, which claims to abhor this kind of racism, does get upset about rightwing groups doing it but then engage in the same themes. I’ll work with your comment about “referring to Jewish power and influence, etc.” is kind of indicative of the issue. Jews are roughly the same size and same economic demographics as Scots in America. They have roughly the same amount of cultural, political and economic power. There are areas where Jews have more influence and there are areas like the presidency (34 out of 45 vs. 0 out of 45) where Scots clearly have more influence. Why should there be any more attention on Jewish power than Scottish power? The Jewish power conversation is just basically saying that Jews use their political, cultural and economic influence to advance issues they consider to be in their vital interest, the same as most other groups in the United States. To take it beyond that you end up having to exaggerate beyond all reason, like AIPAC being America’s most powerful lobby.

Now mostly the right is concerned about Jewish power. For the mainstream right their concern is donations and volunteering for Liberal causes and Democratic candidates. Among the far right the concern is cultural influence. Among the far left the primary concern is Israel. Jews are unusual politically active, Jews are unusual secular and Jews love their homeland and wish to protect her. All of those claims are at their root true, Jews do tilt the field. At the same time they are not particularly shocking lots of other groups tilt the field regarding their issues. Discussions of Jewish power which take place in a context of reason and balance are unlikely to create any upset. Discussion of Jewish power which take place in a context of paranoia and lack balance are going to create upset. I don’t see anything particularly troubling about that.

Finally my definition for “new anti-semitism” is leftist taking traditionally antisemitic / anti-judaic beliefs and modifying them slightly to fit a leftist orientation and updating a bit. This makes sense the Nazi antisemitism influenced the propaganda of Soviet anti-Zionism which influenced the anti-Zionism of today. For example:

Jews control the press — doesn’t need to change. The far left is convinced that support for Israel among the American population is a result of propaganda rather than a rational self interested evaluation of the pros and cons on the part of the American people.

Jews manipulate the economy, especially through banking monopolies and the power of gold — Gold gets replaced by “big banks”

Jews encourage issuing paper currency not tied to the gold standard — Updated now concern about derivatives and so forth.

Jews work through Masonic lodges — They replace “Masonic lodges” with other institutions they hate like lobbies or corporations.

etc…

Finally, I doubt Nathan Perlmutter said what either you or Finkelstein is quoting him as saying in context. That sounds simply too strong and out of character.

“Should I assume that if it’s not true (that Israel has become a city-state), the conclusion of Mondoweiss should therefore be that one should not abandom Zionism?”

No.

(p implies q) does not imply (not p implies not q)

I wanted to put that in formal notation for you, but the MW system does not accept the symbols.

“Elisha calls for the recognition of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state.”

And the basis of this alleged right?

“Zionism has always held a doctrine of shlilat ha’galut that living as aliens within other people’s countries is morally corrupting and spiritually deforming.”

Living in Palestine has certainly been morally corrupting and spiritually deforming for the Zionists.

Nice to know that the US has no secret military establishments (not even Pine Gap) and that Russians can go through them and see everything they want to see. But Iranians can’t.

“they still would not agree that the conflict is over and that there are no further grievances.”

Which is why I said it would be a good start. And resolving those grievances would come under “From now on, we’ll all work together to put the fanatics back in their boxes and work for a decent life for everyone here.”

Nathan needs to be more explicit than “Israelis”. He means racist genocidal fake “Jewish” colonial settler invaders like my family, who certainly don’t belong anywhere in the ME. No one should be sympathetic to such bigoted murderers, interlopers, and thieves. No one should think twice about removing of such fake “Jews” and the eventual disappearance of the fake “Israeli” identity. Who even thinks about Algerian pieds noirs except historians like me?

Mooser,

So you figure the Zionists…

Am I repeating myself? In the old Soviet joke, the pessimist kept saying that things couldn’t get worse and the optimist assured him that they can, and how.

Mooser,

More than likely the articles will remain the site’s main mission.

Of course they will, that’s not the question.

p.s. As Hitler rises to power a voluntary / semi-forced migration to Palestine takes place rather than a mass extermination.

You have a serious misreading of Zionist history if you think a Jewish Agency-ruled Palestine was going to take in enough Jews to forestall the Holocaust.

Ron Fox – The Oslo Accords are a rare moment in the conflict. For once in history, the two sides signed an agreement. And now, since the two sides have agreed on something, it defines legality and legitimacy. The two sides have agreed to solve through negotiations five issues:

1. Palestinian statehood.
2. Refugees.
3. Jerusalem.
4. Settlements
5. Borders.

This means, for example, that there is no right of return. The refugee issue has to be negotiated, and no one knows what the outcome might be. The same is true for all issues. Whatever will be agreed upon will be legal, legitimate and final.

So, the pressing issue is to get the two sides back to the negotiations. Busying oneself in proving that the State of Israel shouldn’t have been founded, or that the settlements should be removed, or the occupation is illegal, or the refugees must be returned, etc, etc is just a total waste of time. There has to be an agreement that the conflict has been resolved – and whatever is agreed upon will be the universally accepted reality of life. In the absence of an agreement, the status quo will continue indefinitely.

While there is some tension the original Palestinian attitude towards western Zionist settlers remains in place.

JeffB, we’ve already gone over two Herzl quotes where he expressed interest in military conquest of Palestine. That in itself is a good indication Herzl’s “Jewish” state would have persecuted non-Jewish persons. But he also wrote this gem in his diary:

“When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country. The property-owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly. Let the owners of immovable property believe that they are cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not going to sell them anything back.

“It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion. This is another area in which we shall set the entire old world a wonderful example. At first, incidentally, people will avoid us. We are in bad odor. By the time the reshaping of world opinion in our favor has been completed, we shall be firmly established in our country,
no longer fearing the influx of foreigners, and receiving our visitors with aristocratic benevolence and proud amiability.

“The voluntary expropriation will be accomplished through our secret agents. The Company would pay excessive prices. We shall then sell only to Jews, and all real estate will be traded only among Jews. To be sure, we shall not be able to do this by declaring other sales invalid. Even if this did not run counter to the modem world’s sense of justice, our power would not suffice to force it through.”

(Complete Herzl Diaries vol I p 88-89, 12 Jun 1895)

So to get down to brass tacks, Herzl was being a hypocritical ass when he said persons of non-Jewish faith would be tolerated and their property respected, after suggesting the “penniless population” should be spirited across the border by denying it employment. Obviously this policy was going to be aimed primarily at non-Jews (although it’s possible poor Jewish Palestinians would’ve been affected as well), so you can’t deny Herzl premeditated persecuting non-Jewish persons in his Zionist state.

What’s more, that last sentence is clearly an admission that Herzl knew he was advocating a policy that would be antithetical to those who sympathized with the plight of the Jews in Europe.

And as if great minds didn’t think alike, what Herzl advocated here became the basis for the WZO-built kibbutzim/training farms (as distinct from those of the First Aliyah) which reserved membership for European Jews only and barred even Mideastern Jews. It was also the aim of the Mapai party that eventually founded Israel to gradually phase out employment of non-Jewish persons in the Yishuv economy.

So you don’t have much of a basis for pretending the New Yishuv and the existing former Ottoman society were going to integrate without the interference of Arab Nationalism. No Zionist leader at the time was even taking that moral highground – they viewed the presence of non-Jewish persons in the hypothetical “Jewish” state as an obstacle, full stop, and wanted to create a separate society.

Taub is concerned with majority ethnic groups ethnically cleansing minority groups. At the time of the Nakba, Jews were a minority ethnic group even inside the borders of what is now considered Israel.

hyperbole much? i guess you tried to top my by posting your own infantile and stupid comment. To review: i previously posted that Waters has a history of being arrogant and wrong. Someone asked me for an example and I posted – among other instances – that Roger was arrogant and wrong to sue his bandmates to prevent them from making a living as Pink Floyd. He’s also arrogant and wrong to say that Radiohead does not know enough about the I / P situation.

Waters is a narcissist with poor judgment. If applies in many areas of his life. Deal with it. His former bandmates despise him because of narcissism and poor judgment.

Perhaps the prominent rabbi had recently read one of Norman Finkelstein’s works in which he not only coined the phrase “There’s no business, like Shoah business,” but exposed the various ways Wiesel cashed in on the Holocaust Industry and served as one of Israel’s most prominent diaspora Hasbarists. A son has the right to remember his father with all the sentimentality he wants. The rest of us are entitled to cringe and walk away.

RoHa – You are “pretty sure” that your plan “would meet with an enthusiastic response from the Palestinians”. Surely, the Palestinians would accept your plan since it’s much better than the present status quo from their perspective – but they still would not agree that the conflict is over and that there are no futher grievances. There are many more grievances, and the conflict would therefore continue within your one-state plan. And, not too surprisingly, you did not state that your plan would establish peace (you only promised Palestinian enthusiasm).

It would be rather difficult to convince the Israeli public to give up on the Jewish state AND to live in conflict. What would be the point of it all from their point of view?

It just occurred to me that perhaps you are not even aware of the cause of conflict from the Palestinian point of view.

It’s hard to follow the logic of this article. Rahm Emanuel made a statement that Israel has gone from a “nation-state to a city-state”, and therefore the conclusion of the article is “to abandon Zionism”. Should I assume that if it’s not true (that Israel has become a city-state), the conclusion of Mondoweiss should therefore be that one should not abandom Zionism?

I don’t really think that the observations of Mr Emanuel should be taken too seriously. In any case, the only question that one should ask in journalism is the veracity of the statement. In other words, is it true that Israel is becoming a city-state? Strangely, that question didn’t occur to anyone. The point of the article, apparently, is to restate the view that Zionism must be abandoned – and no one really cares about city-states of the imagination.

Since Mr Emanuel states that Israel has gone from “a nation-state to a city-state”, it’s apparent that he doesn’t even understand the terminology that he uses. Obviously, the “city-state” is a state the size a city – so, it would seem that he understands that a “nation-state” is a state the size of a “nation” (a country). However, in political science, a nation-state is a state that was set up by a particular ethnicity (a nation). Theoretically, a nation-state could also be a city-state.

I was surprised that the article did not mention that Mr Emanuel’s father was a member of the Irgun. Surely, that would have been much more interesting than his ideas about city-states. And it wouldn’t have spoiled the point of the article. The conclusion could have been that “since Mr Emanuel’s father was a member of the Irgun, Zionism should be abandoned”.

In that regard, see:
https://www.juancole.com/2017/09/israeli-announces-cleansing.html

I truly hope you are right… but up to now, I don’t see any sign of that…

MARC ELLIS- “When he ended his stinging indictment – “There’s no business, like Shoah business” – he expected from me a sign of solidarity. I cringed and walked away.”

When I think of Elie Wiesel, I think of a fraud sharing the stage with his buddies Shmuley Boteach and genocidaire Paul Kagame. And you cringed and walked away?

… Now there is a reflection by Wiesel’s son, Elisha, in the Forward on the first Rosh Hashanah since his father’s passing last year. Again respect is due. Each one of us has a right to remember his or her father in the way we need to. …

One can respect Elisha Wiesel’s right to remember his father in the way he needs to. One does not owe the rose-tinted remembrance any respect.

Elie Wiesel was a Zionist and, like all Zionists, he was a hypocrite who believed that the religion-based identity of Jewish comprises a right:
– to a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine; and
– to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them.

The world can do with a lot less of that sort of “painfully human and profoundly spiritual being”.

JEFFB- “Antisemitism believed the problem with Jews were genetic not situational.”

You are, of course, referring to modern anti-Semitism, not the “new” anti-Semitism. The new anti-Semitism consists of anything and everything which may interfere with Jewish Zionist power-seeking such as criticizing Israel or referring to Jewish power and influence, etc.

“Thus ADL head Nathan Perlmutter maintained that the “real anti-Semitism” in America consisted of policy initiatives “corrosive of Jewish interests,” such as affirmative action….” (p37, “The Holocaust Industry,” Norman Finkelstein)

|| jon s: … May it be a year of peace and reconciliation. ||

May it be a year of justice, accountability and equality.

Only adequate? How is a deal whose goal is to stop non-existent nuclear weapons program to be judged?

“Put me down as a Jew who is comfortable with this dialogue going on.”

Of course you are “Jeffy”. After all, the man from a demonstrably superior race need not ever fear racism.

JONATHAN COOK- “They include George Soros, a Holocaust survivor who has invested billions in pro-democracy movements….”

Pro-democracy movements? That is an odd way to describe color revolutions. Speaking of color revolutions and the CIA, I simply can’t resist linking to a superb interview with Douglas Valentine about the CIA. I strongly recommend this interview. A quote followed by the link.

“Everything the CIA does is illegal, which is why the government provides it with an impenetrable cloak of secrecy. While mythographers in the information industry portray America as a bastion of peace and democracy, CIA officers manage criminal organizations around the world. For example, the CIA hired one of America’s premier drug trafficker in the 1950s and 1960s, Santo Trafficante, to murder Fidel Castro. In exchange, the CIA allowed Trafficante to import tons of narcotics into America. The CIA sets up proprietary arms, shipping, and banking companies to facilitate the criminal drug trafficking organizations that do its dirty work. Mafia money gets mixed up in offshore banks with CIA money, until the two are indistinguishable.” (Douglas Valentine) https://dissidentvoice.org/2017/09/the-cia-70-years-of-organized-crime/#more-72008

Come on. This is not indifference to the plight of the Palestinians. This is all part of the Israel propaganda machine.

I’m tempted to copy that pic and put it on ebay. For sale two narcissistic bookends. Both have some damage and are not suitable for use with educational or intellectual material.

great news and great stuff.all in a days work.well done team.

“Should I have written forced convertions??”

No. “Conversions” (with an “s”) is correct.

Moose:

Should I have written forced convertions?? When someone is converted against his/her own will??

Shana Tova! A Happy New Year to all!
May it be a year of peace and reconciliation.

@RoHa

So teams of Iranian inspectors can enter any US military site and poke around into everything there?

No but there representatives from the UN and other permanent security council members like Russia can.

I expect that the Iranian Parliament keeps an eye on what the Iranian military are doing.

Then when they start publishing those results in their equivalent of the congressional record it will save everyone a lot of time doing physical inspections.

@Johnathan —

The core distinction between anti-Judaic and antisemitic literature is the belief in the root causes of Jewish dysfunction. Anti-Judaic bigotry was situational believing at its root that the problem was that Jews were foreign, or sexual deviants or not Pagan / Christian / Muslim. Antisemitism believed the problem with Jews were genetic not situational. Zionism falls in the anti-Judaic camp. Zionism has always held a doctrine of shlilat ha’galut that living as aliens within other people’s countries is morally corrupting and spiritually deforming.

Zionists are dialoguing with these groups and explaining shlilat ha’galut to people drawn to antisemitism. More and more the far right is moving away from a belief that the problems with Jews are intrinsic to the race (as per David Duke) and instead that the problems are situational. In Israel they see a normal society filled with Jews (I understand you are incapable of seeing a normal society in Israel, but we are talking about the far right here not the far left). Israel’s normality disproves the idea that Jews are biologically incapable of functioning in a normal society if given the chance to have one. For the right, Israel takes Europe’s most difficult minority and shows that the problem was always situational. It disproves antisemitism and arguably a good chunk of racism.

I would think anyone who is an anti-racist would applaud the success of this dialogue. Not so much because of Jews, Israel has solved the Jewish question. But because the argument with respect to Jews applies via the same logic to other groups like the Roma. The Roma are in far more danger in Europe than the Jews. And of course it applies all over the world to a host of other minorities. The technique of vilification, name calling and suppression that the left prefers to rational engagement has proven itself a terrible strategy in winning converts to anti-racist positions.

Put me down as a Jew who is comfortable with this dialogue going on.

Another generation of delusion and racism

Jeff:

If you were talking about the Roman Catholic Inquisition, I just did not get your point?? How do you connect it with I/P 2017?? Persecutions and forced coversions to Catholism? Is it that what you were talking about??

“The conflict came about because of primitive tribal racists and antisemites winning the argument in Palestinian society about how to respond to Zionism.”

Be careful, “Jeff B”. You might want to remember that Tex Antoine lost his job for talking like that.

His actions as mayor clearly demonstrate his contempt for Chicago’s black community.

Thanks, Phil. “Norman Finkelstein’s critique of self-determination as a desideratum in Israel and Palestine”. Is there a reference for this? I’d like to read it.

” I’d be very happy to hear your ideas concerning “restitution”. What, indeed, should be done in order to rectify all the grievances that are on the agenda?” “nathan”

“Nathan”, you don’t want to ask that question. Do you think Israel can declare national bankruptcy and get away with it?

“And if want to call that Nazi policy I’ll happily stand with the Nazis on that issue.” “Jeff B”

Of course you will, “Jeff”! After all, what did the Nazis have that Israel doesn’t have?
Anything Nazi Germany can accomplish (and gee, it didn’t accomplish) with about 90 million people and a lot of other resources, Israel can do with a couple million people from a country not much bigger than an aircraft-carrier.

“I’m part of the Protestant Nation. We have all the qualifications”

And, taken in its totality, the best music. That always helps.

Jewish israelis can only breed with each other, keeping that gene pool nice and tidy and shallow. The madness from zionist style eugenics is already showing. .

“Keep your fingers crossed and hope it doesn’t soon become the site’s main mission.”

More than likely the articles will remain the site’s main mission. I hope so.

“Marnie” if you had any kind of an English-language web-page, blog or site which was concerned about showing Zionism in any kind of a positive manner, how long would you let “Jeff B” “Nathan” and “Yonah” etc, post there? Now you know why they are here. At Mondo, there’s no obligation to put a bottom on the Zionist rhetorical barrel.
They seem to be the embodiment (or stand as an indictment of) of the five sentences after “Congratulations! Mazel Tov!” But not a word after that.

“I’ll repeat myself. (Fortunately, nearly everything I say bears repeating.)”

And, fortunately, there is plenty of room for it.

” “Israel: nearly 70 years of trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.”

Zionism: The Jewish people’s search for the small pond to be the biggest fish in.

“I see nobody told Mooser what the Z can do in the US.”

So you figure the Zionists will deal direct with the US government and demand that America deport all of its Jewish nationals back to Israel?

Zionism has no coercive power over Jews outside of Israel. That’s not a nation.

Goldberg’s face is a restrained smirk with lifeless eyes.

“The debate about whether some or all Jews constitute a “nation” or “people” is a major distraction, imo,”

The “nation” shibboleth seems absolutely essential to Zionism. For some reason I don’t understand, if Zionists tell some Jews they are a “nation”, they immediately become the equal of the US, Russia, China, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, etc, etc.
Anything they can do, we can do better, and anything they can get away with, so can we. Objective conditions need not apply, once you’ve got a “nation”, apparently.

@ Talkback September 19, 2017, 9:09 am

JeffB: “Anti-Zionism wants to kill Israel.” Like Anti-Nazism wanted to “kill” Nazi Germany.

Nope not at all like that. Anti-Nazism wanted regime change in Germany not the total destruction of Germany as a people, as a nation and as a culture. People objected, quite rightly, to the particular German government. But anti-Nazims never asserted that German territory should be swamped with foreigners, who would then forever govern the Germans permanently depriving them of any self determination. And that would only be if any survived at all.

And Anti-Apartheid wanted to kill South Africa under Apartheid.

Nope not like that one either. Anti-Zionism consistently harps on the Jewish immigration to Palestine in a way the Anti-Apartheid movement never did on the Afrikaner immigration. The Anti-Apartheid movement consistently used the language of genuine equality before the law for all. The anti-Apartheid movement rejected not supported your contention that where people could legally live in South Africa should be determined by their ethnicity. Anti-Apartheid declared a universal and welcoming South African identity. Mandela gave speeches in Afrikaans and consistently talked about their being one people in South Africa.

No the anti-Zionist movement is nothing like that at. Not remotely similar. Your movement preaches nothing but hatred and darkness.

@Talkback

You don’t have a problem, with “long term ethnic populations of non-citizens” when they are Non Palestinian Jewish settlers which illegaly immigrated and settled in occupied Palestine, right?

There are no non-Palestinian Jewish settlers outside of annexed territory and Area-C. So your claim such a situation is happening is as we’ve discussed before, while quite popular is a tortured abuse of language. As for Area-C I support resolving this through annexation of Area-C and the granting of full Israeli citizenship to all residents of Area-C normalizing the situation.

” everything “Jeff b” says has one source..”

Gets them all from his pilpul bottle.

I don’t think Jerusalem will be the last redoubt.

RE: “When I was growing up, [coming here] obviously two days after the [start of the] Six Day War, [there was] the sense that we were going to explore, and go everywhere, from Beersheba in the Negev to Kiryat Shmona and everything between, and Jews are going to be everywhere. We’re going to go and populate the land of Israel.” ~ Rahm Emmanuel

MY COMMENT: Rahm Emmanuel should be given considerable credit for being open about the fact that Israel never had any intention of giving up the West Bank (i.e., pursuing a “land for peace” policy).

@Frankie P

How exactly are Senator Gillibrand’s voters and constituents (excluding Jews and Palestinians) harmed one way or another by whatever happens in I/P? Your rant doesn’t even make sense. How could they possibly have any needs with respect to this crisis, it has nothing to do with them and no impact on them. As for your rant about donors, donors and volunteers are voters and constituents.

And finally: the right to assemble and petition your elected representatives for a redress of grievances is one the main points in having a democracy. Senator Gillibrand isn’t shirking her duties when she meets with lobbyists to construct legislation rather she is performing them. That’s how the system works and is supposed to work. Undifferentiated and poorly thought out public opinion gets turned into specific policy recommendations by lobbies. Voters choose between these actionable policies by involvement. Those lobbies present the policy recommendations to elected representatives. The elected representatives meet with a variety of lobbies reflecting conflicting interests. The lobbies continue to work as intermediaries between elected representatives and the broader population with the grievances to allow for fruitful negotiation and compromise between these conflicting interests. Which finally becomes law and policy.

You maybe should pause for a second before you BIOYA.