Cultural Melting Pot
Posted 2007-05-04 10:25 under Breaking News by Viktor Marković / 20 comments
Probably you remember the articles about Ganja March, Stormfront forum, the hooligans and the internet fights. Instead of a recapitlation on those articles, it seems that i will rather have the unfortunate opportunity to see all those cultural groups at the same place tomorrow – Republic square, Saturday 5th of May, 15:00. How come?
Well, it all started when the ganja legalization activists announced that they will organize a march with the intention of giving a voice in favor of legalizing pot. I already said earlier that I don’t have anything against the march or the legalization, but that it really isn’t our priority. But enough about me.
Ultra-right wing groups who oppose the legalization, and not only that, but don’t exactly see the difference between that and the West, the communism, democracy, homosexualism, hard drugs and pedophilia – basically all the things they disagree with – said that they will try and stop the march from taking place, explicitly saying in a public announcement that they will not restrain themselves from using violence. Organizations such as Obraz (christian right wing activists with close ties to SErbian Orthodox Church), Blood and honour, Nacionalni stroj and Konačni obračun (neonazi/white pride groups) and Garda cara Lazara (tzar Lazar’s guard, a phantom organization of paramilitary volounteers ready to try and win Kosovo back if it becomes independent) claim that they have support of Kosta Cavoski, a profesor at the Belgrade Law Faculty and eager defender of Milosevic while he was still in Hague.
Somewhat surprised by this announcement and by the fact that the police didn’t exactly respond to this publicaly announced violence they way they should have, legalization activists are already thinking about cancelling the march, but are still divided over the issue whether to withdraw or not.
So where do the football hooligans fit in here, you may wonder? It seems that they are also divided – partly because they hate the NGOs, partly because they hate the neonazi groups, partly because many of them like to smoke weed too. One thing they agree on is that they do love a good fight. This is why the internet forums are now the main battlefield with both marijuana activists and the rightwings are trying to win over football hooligans on their side for the Saturday march. On top of it all, the derby between Partizan and Red Star, our two biggest clubs and archrivals falls exactly on Saturday, 5th of March, so it seems as if the football fans will gather at the Republic square all the same, like they do in front of every game.
So let’s sum it up – we have:
- Orthodox christian right wing groups
- Neonazi christian right wing groups
- Neonazi anarchist right wing groups
- Antifascist groups who smoke weed
- Antifa groups who don’t smoke weed
- Paramilitary groups with unclear affiliations
- Football hooligans who like weed
- Football hooligans who hate NGOs
- Football hoolingas who hate neonazis
- Marijana legalization activists who are not members of any NGO
- Marijuana activists members of some NGO
- Marijuana activists who are also football hooligans
- NGO sector who hates neonazis and football hooligans
- People returning home from Zeleni Venac and Bajloni green markets
- Police
and of course, in each and every one of these groups we have:
- Straight people
- Gay people
- Bisexual people
- Red Star fans
- Partizan fans
Talk about a cultural diversity, eh? Hopefully you won’t hear from me again on this “event”, cause if you do, it won’t be the good news.
Cvijus on 04/05/07 02:12 PM
As if both of these conflicting groups don’t have anything better to do than to protest for/against the legalization of marijuana. Alltogether a bunch of losers.
Blackbird on 04/05/07 09:39 PM
The legalization of marijuana (and all illegal drugs) is supported, agitated for, and being paid for by George Soros who’s hand is in a lot of NGOs, not to mention other organizations in Serbia that shall remain nameless for the moment. He would like nothing better than to have everyone spaced out enough so that he could just go ahead and take over just as he is working to do with his billions. He was a Nazi collaborator and is a shameless meglomaniac. But a lot of people will not look beyond the money he’ll give them to do his bidding. Anyone who thinks that working for the legalization of marijuana is as “innocent” as it is being made out to be is either a gullible fool or a greedy manipulator. The repercussions will be wide reaching and not in a beneficial way.
Nemanja on 05/05/07 10:20 AM
Cvijus: “As if both of these conflicting groups don’t have anything better to do than to protest for/against the legalization of marijuana. Alltogether a bunch of losers.”
Whether they are all losers or not is not an issue here; It’s simply horrific that a group of fascists had, by the threat of violence, succeded in preventing a group of people from peacefully excercising their constitutional rights (and we all know how important the Constitution is, right?). If they (the Facists) had organized a peacefull anti-legalization protest, I wouldn’t care less about both of them. This way… I can’t escape the impression that in Serbia terrorism is OK, as long as it’s “patriotic”; and when someone notices those tendencies reemerging in our society, with the government’s silent approval, he is promptly classified as an extremists. This is a sad day for Serbia and it’s rachitic democracy.
It could stretch “od Tokyja do Milwaukija”, a country without a healthy, open society would still be a shithole, that’s what these fools don’t understand.
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” – Voltaire
Blackbird: “Blablabla-Soros-Soros-Blablabla….”
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
bganon on 05/05/07 05:11 PM
Blackbird thats not my understanding of the establishment capitalist view of marijuana. The traditional viewpoint is that marijuana should stay illegal because of fear that people will do a Tim Leary and decide to drop out rather than work. That wont help Soros.
And your logic on the issue seems illogical – if some businessman (like Soros) were to support the legalisation of marijuana he would do so not in line with some cartoon caricature (rubbing his hands and plotting to take over the world), he would do so with a plan to enter the marijuana cigarette market – ie to profit by selling the drug legally. That could be marijuana cigarettes, marijuana chocolates or similar.
No, no matter what side of the debate you support, one should support the right to peaceful protest – of course all the while reserving the right to condemn it. One problem we have in Serbia (although I guess the US isnt so different on the abortion issue for example) is the inability of people (from both sides of the debate) to respect the other ‘side’ right.
Then, for example you have people who lean towards Kostunica seeing people being beaten on the streets firstly consider their opinion on the issue that the people are campaigning about. The first thing they should consider in my opinion is whether its acceptible to beat up those that dont share your opinion. To me a far greater issue is peoples right to freely assemble on the streets.
Anyway I was at Trg Republike about 15.45 and didnt see anything at all about from 10 policemen gathered around. I did spot one guy that looked like a doper but no skinhead types.
Cvijus on 05/05/07 07:07 PM
Nemanja, my point was that I don’t care if somebody protests for the legalization of weed or the fact that ketschup has to be paid in McDonalds, the fact that Serbia is in a critical situation and such weed legalization marches are for me senseless. There are more important things to protest about that have an impact on all of us, such as the Government not being formed, negotiations with the EU are blocked for over a year… As for the Fascists, well, as far as it is a contra-protest, why not, but if it get’s violent, then the prison.
Thx for Voltaire
Blackbird on 05/05/07 07:45 PM
bganon,
You can do the research on Soros yourself if you are so inclined.
The man is obsessed with creating an ultra left “utopia.” He’s ga ga but he has tons of money, so he is able to buy those who are more than willing to be bought, like the Clintons and others. He’s not the first enormously wealthy person who was nuts. Those close to him have admitted he is preoccupied with death. One of his big causes is “euthanasia.” He’s currently behind a Democratic Party bill in Congress to curtail freedom of speech. Find these things out for yourself — if you wish.
And I don’t care what he is or does as a person, except for the fact that he meddles in the world like no empire before him.
Nemanja, many people dislike anyone who makes them look at things a little deeper. If that’s your problem, then too bad for you. I will continue to question when I think it’s appropriate and warranted. Those who didn’t question ended up in the ranks of Tito, Stalin, Hitler, and many others. If you’re happy to continue to parrot instead of questioning and analyising, you will run into people who won’t let you get away with. The only person here who has ever answered a point I made in any kind of legitimate manner is bganon.
Ian Cresswell on 05/05/07 08:26 PM
The man is obsessed with creating an ultra left “utopia.”
Hang on a minute! The ultra left say that Soros is an agent of neo-liberalism. What to believe?
Back on planet earth Soros’s opinions are well known. He’s not exactly shy about sharing them. He’s a social democrat, with a large dollop of Karl Popper on top. Agree with him or not, I don’t see the problem apart from that he’s rich and so can donate significant sums to his pet causes
The paranoia around him is most amusing.
bganon on 06/05/07 04:18 PM
Well there was an article today on the (non) protest in Blic.
They interviewed a few people including a pro-marajuana guy and a woman from some health background.
What irritates me is that the same (mostly ignorant) arguments are always used. The supposed health professional said that marijuana was bad for your health and listed the usual suspects cancer of one kind or another etc. Of course she was talking about smoking marijuana (she obviously isnt aware that this isnt the only method of its use). It might not do your health any good but lets at least make clear what we are talking about – if we know what we are talking about. Then she spoke about how marijuana leads you to getting hooked on hard drugs. In the west this theory is called the gateway theory I believe. She pointed to some study showing that most people who used hard drugs started on marijuana. What she (and purveyors of the gateway theory) fail to realise is that one can use the same argument against cigarettes. ie that people who use marijuana and then say crack – started using cigarettes first. Ooops, well using that logic this means that cigarettes make people into crack and heroin users. I doubt our health professional realises this. And I bet such a theory would confuse her completely.
What amazes me regularly isnt the variety of opinions, or the fact that somebody might have a different opinion to me. What amazes me is the lack of thought that goes behind supporting a particular opinion. Its like some have an in-built norm sensor. Anything that violates norms (that in some cases were established during Turk rule) are questionable but national habits or characteristics that became common in this period and remain so today, are not questioned.
And I am continously disapointed by supposed journalists who know they can frequently display their ignorance on a topic because they know their audience are not acquainted with the facts.
Blackbird on 06/05/07 07:49 PM
My only problems with marijuana are that it is MUCH, much stronger than it used to be in 60s and it therefore IS more harmful than people think because it can cause dillusions and hallucinations in some people, and secondly that it provides big money for the narcomafia and keeps them in business — not a good thing for anyone. If you want to legalize but you put a big warning on the label, fine. Legalize it and provide it in a dose that is more akin to what people smoked in the 60s, and sell it through official sources, like tobacconists so people don’t need to get it illegally. In California you can already get medical marijuana perscribed, but apparently, and not unexpectedly, that gets abused. However, there is no doubt that it has its medical benefits and that some legal medical drugs can be harder on a person than marijuana.
Blackbird on 06/05/07 08:05 PM
This is just dipping a toe in the ocean. George Soros would like to be God and apparently already thinks he is.
George Soros
NS Profile
NEIL CLARK / New Statesman 2jun03
http://www.mindfully.org/WTO/2003/George-Soros-Statesman2jun03.htm
The billionaire trader has become eastern Europe’s uncrowned king and the prophet of ‘‘the open society’‘. But open to what? George Soros profiled by Neil Clark
________________________________
George Soros, Postmodern Villain by Srdja Trifkovic
“George Soros is out to deconstruct nations and states as Europe has known them for centuries…”
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1786453/posts
Owen on 07/05/07 01:19 AM
Thanks for the references, Blackbird. Certainly if I wanted a sophisticated unbiased analysis of events in the Balkans the very first person I would rush to read would be Neil Clark. And of course when it comes to exhaling toxic substances Trifkovic’s my home boy – respect, dude!
John on 07/05/07 05:35 AM
There is nothing wrong with pot justa s long as it is used responsibly. Hell, alcohol is more dangerious than pot and has caused more deaths and pain than any one joint! And you know what…I’m a cop!
The church’s threat of violence should be enough proof to anyone that they are only in it for the money and power over their subjects. The God I know is peacefull and forgiving and non judgmental. I actually would love to ba apart of this march! In fact if I would have known about it a few months ago I would have made plans to attend.
In numbers those who judge and who are bad are powerless! What hinders “us” verses the church is that we are not organized as well as the church. Citizens organized for a cause are a force to be reckoned with. A force I wish I could lead and fight and die for!
John
Blackbird on 07/05/07 06:04 AM
No, I’m sure Clark and Trifkovic don’t push your point of view so they must be not worth even reading. It’ s just possible that they might offer you some facts that you would have a hard time refuting, so of course you’re better off avoiding them completely — why take on any kind of challenge? I repeat, bganon is the only person here who has ever actually answered any point I’ve made and not simply resorted to making an irrelevant comment in response. Respect, indeed!
Blackbird on 07/05/07 06:23 AM
http://www.nysun.com/article/41564
Billionaire Soros Gives Financial Boost to General Clark
By JOSH GERSTEIN
Staff Reporter of the Sun
October 16, 2006
A billionaire investor who spent more than $25 million to defeat President Bush in 2004, George Soros, is giving a financial boost to the political fortunes of a former four-star general, Wesley Clark, who ran for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004 and is poised to mount another bid in 2008.
Mr. Soros gave $75,000 in July to a political group led by General Clark, Wes-Pac, according to a report filed yesterday with the Internal Revenue Service.
It is the largest known gift from Mr. Soros this year to a political organization affiliated with a contender for the presidency in 2008.
Spokesmen for the two men did not return calls last night seeking comment on the donation.
In April, Mr. Soros hosted a fund-raiser for WesPac at his home in Manhattan. General Clark also serves on the board of a nongovernmental organization supported by Mr. Soros, the International Crisis Group.
Last year, Mr. Soros gave the legal maximum of $4,200 to Senator Clinton’s re-election campaign. According to a report filed Federal Election Commission, some of the money, $1,250, was later refunded. No reason was given.
Due to legal limits on donations to political groups affiliated with current federal officeholders Mr. Soros could not have given $75,000 to Mrs. Clinton even if he wished to. However, the financier could give $5,000 a year to Mrs. Clinton’s political action committee. He has not done so.
In an interview last week, Mr. Soros said he could support Mrs. Clinton in a bid for the White House. “I would be delighted to see her as president,” he told Fox News. He did not offer an opinion on other possible contenders for 2008.
Nearly all the major contenders for the presidency in 2008 have started political action committees to finance their travels to key states and provide a vehicle for relaying donations to local candidates. Several, such as General Clark, have also formed so-called 527 groups, which can take gifts of unlimited size but cannot support individual candidates.
Current federal officeholders and candidates are not permitted to be affiliated with 527 organizations, which get the label from a section of the tax code.
The largest gift to General Clark’s political committee was a $100,000 contribution from the owner of a Texas sporting goods chain, Arthur Gochman.
General Clark, a Rhodes scholar, began his military career as an Army Ranger in Vietnam, where he was wounded four times. He retired after commanding NATO forces in Kosovo as supreme allied commander-Europe.
Blackbird on 07/05/07 06:58 AM
A Sorosian finger in every pie.
http://www.oilempire.us/soros.html
one excerpt:
“ TheYugoslavs remained stubbornly resistant and repeatedly returned Slobodan Milosevic’s reformed Socialist Party to government. Soros was equal to the challenge. From 1991, his Open Society Institute channeled more than $100 million to the coffers of the anti-Milosevic opposition, funding political parties, publishing houses and “independent” media such as Radio B92, the plucky little student radio station of western mythology, which was in reality bankrolled b one of the world’s richest men on behalf of the world’s most powerful nation. With Slobo finally toppled in 2000 in a coup d’etat financed, planned and executed in Washington all that was left was to cart the ex Yugoslav leader to the Hague tribunal, co-financed by Soros along with other custodians of human rights, Time Warner Corporation and Disney. He faced charges of crimes against humanity, war crimes and genocide, based in the main on the largely anecdotal evidence of (you guessed it) Human Rights Watch.”
another excerpt; yes, from an interview of Clark…contradict him if you can:
Clark points out that “since the fall of Milosevic, Serbia, under the auspices of Soros- backed “reformers”, has become less, not more, free. The recently lifted state of emergency saw more than 4,000 people arrested, many of them without charge, political parties threatened with bans, and critical newspapers closed down” This has been so blatant that it was condemned by the UN Commission on Human Rights and the British Helsinki Group“Soros has made money in every country he has helped to prise ‘open’. In Kosovo, for example, he has invested $50 million in an attempt to gain control of the Trepca mine complex, where there are vast reserves of gold, silver, lead and other minerals estimated to be worth in the region of $5 billion. He thus copied a pattern he has deployed to great effect over the whole of eastern Europe of advocating ‘shocking therapy’ and ‘economic reform’, then swooping in with his associate to buy valuable state assets at knock-down prices,” according to Clark.*
In Hungary, Soros is the benefactor of the Free Democrats party “which has pursued the classic Soros agenda of privatization and economic liberalization—-leading to a widening gap between rich and poor,” says Clark.
“The Soros strategy for extending Pax Americana differs from the Bush model, particularly in its subtlety. But it is just as ambitious and just as deadly,” Clark concludes.
Of course, in the case of Yugoslavia, ultimately the Soros approach was not enough so the overwhelming might of the U.S. military was brought into play.*
For background information on the former Yugoslavia, see “The Real Reasons for the War in Yugoslavia: Backing up Globalization with Military Might,” by Karen Talbot, http://icpj.org/military_build.html
Marko on 07/05/07 01:37 PM
People, all talk of the dangers/benefits of pot and conspiracy theories (regardless of whether there is any truth in them) concerning the organizers or supporters of this or that march/rally/protest are completely beside the point. The only point is that as long as it is done according to rules of public gathering and without violence people must be allowed to express their views and meet publicly to support whichever cause they want. Any form of violence must be sanctioned.
Blackbird on 07/05/07 06:53 PM
You’re right. I took us off topic. That happens because I’m always more concerned about the bigger picture then some specific problemn that is an offshoot from it, but sometimes I am overzealous because I am quite certain from my own research that there is plenty to worry about in the big picture. Although my viewpoint comes from a genuine concern, I will try to curb it.
John on 09/05/07 08:11 AM
I have not been as “active” of late but, does this Blackbird have a blog or web site? Just curious, for I’d like to gander at it.
John
Owen on 09/05/07 11:51 AM
Blackbird, for my sins I’ve read more than enough Clark than is good for my eyesight and having drunk deep of the well of Trifkovic on television as well as on paper I think I’d need psychotropic assistance to cope with any more. Chill.
Blackbird on 29/05/07 11:12 PM
John,
I believe you have already visited my blog. There isn’t much new on it as I haven’t posted in at least a couple of months. Too many demands on my time right now, but I will return to it soon enough.