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ACLU Legal Observers Will “Impartially” Document Everything You Do at the G20PDF version
"You must be willing to be outside for a couple of hours at a time, pay careful attention to events, and carefully document occurrences in detail." "You must also be willing to testify as a witness should the activities you observe lead to legal proceedings. A main purpose of having legal observers is to create credible, impartial witnesses in the event an incident becomes the subject of a legal proceeding." "Again your job is to document, as thoroughly as possible, any incidents, arrests, or misconduct (by police or protesters) that take place. Document everything the police and protesters do as thoroughly as possible. The ACLU of Pennsylvania considers any notes, photos, or videos taken at protests to be confidential and privileged. Inform the police of this if they attempt to seize your notes or camera. If a policeman takes your property, write down the officer’s badge number and contact your coordinator." "Stay vigilant at all times. Look for signs of potential trouble such as protesters wearing masks, policeman wearing atypical uniforms or covering their badges, or the presence of other state/federal agents (such as the FBI or immigration authorities). Be watchful for counter-demonstrators who may instigate violence. If such an incident occurs, be sure to record it with as much detail as possible." "When an incident occurs, be sure to document everything. If possible, take photos of each incident, and jot down notes as the incident is occurring. Note how the incident started. Who did or said what? Try to identify the individuals involved. Note who else is watching the incident and whether anyone intervenes or interferes. After the incident, try to collect the names of a few other individuals who witnessed it-onlookers if possible, but demonstrators if not." "In particular, document what the police do: Do the police offer a warning? An alternative to being arrested? Do they quote the law? If so, what exactly do they say the law is? If it is an incident between demonstrators, do they attempt to break it up? Do they only arrest one side? Also, record what the protesters are doing immediately before and during an arrest, i.e. calmly sitting down, chanting, or throwing things, etc. Do they resist arrest?" "If people are arrested, try to get their names, the arresting authority (and names of the arresting officers if possible), and find out where they are being taken. Report this information to the legal observer coordinator as soon as possible." --- The ACLU is not on the side of anarchists, radicals, and protesters. The ACLU is aiming towards “impartiality” and will record in notes made by their “neutral” observers the identities of individuals involved in “misconduct (by police or protesters),” witnesses to any incident (ideally not a demonstrator), responses by protesters (such as “resisting arrest” or “throwing things”) as well as any photographs or video of any altercation. The document makes clear that an ACLU legal observer must be willing to testify (on whose side?) at any trial or legal proceeding based on an event s/he observed, and after pages devoted to how to collect information on any protest incident, it contains precisely one bullet point devoted to collecting arrestees' names (although, it begs the question if it makes sense to give your name to an ACLU legal observer-- so they can then add it to their “impartial notes” and possibly identify you later?) The ACLU's emphasis on “impartiality” means that they will be collecting incriminating information on anyone engaging in protest. At the G20, this means they will be photographing, videotaping, and writing reports on primarily anarchist actions-- and although they consider this information “confidential” insofar as the police confiscating it outright, they also require an observer to testify at legal proceedings (for either side) and nothing in their language suggests that they would resist a subpoena by law enforcement looking for evidence. If you are going to the G20, remember that although the ACLU has A-grade leftist brand recognition, they are not there to help you-- in fact, as liberals, they are hoping that the presence of legal observers will have “a calming influence on the situation, as some police and protesters are reluctant to be observed engaging in disruption.” If you are one of those people “wearing masks” that the ACLU wants their legal observers to remain “vigilant” for, than you can be sure they are recording every thing you are doing*. *Yet another reason to wear masks and to hate liberals. ![]() |
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fucking aclu... i have been
fucking aclu... i have been a legal observer at one or two events where things started to get crazy and none were around. once i even got to wear an oversized neon green nlg hat. in the times i've sat in on their trainings or filled the role, it has always been stressed that we were there to observe the cops and their behavior towards protesters, not to record what protesters (or anarchists) were up too.
on a macro level, the aclu is just flawed in that while they "mean well," they are based entirely on the premise that the constitution and the bill of rights ought to be the highest standard of governance. Note that they have no issue with governance, law, or the rest. certainly not friends of anarchists, more accurately seen as a group we can rely on when it suits our purposes (which is the same way they would have our backs, actually, except their purpose is to maintain what we want to destroy).
am i rambling?
--ingrate
The ACLU at these events are
The ACLU at these events are agents of the state. Treat them no different then a cop and try to get them away from our comrades.
you are an idiot.
you are an idiot.
you are showing no less
you are showing no less ignorance than the right. the ACLU is neutral has always been neutral and will forever be neutral. just watch what you do and use common sense, they don't have the same thought process as we do. So the more information you withhold from them the less can be used against you if they happen to leak.
Cross-post from
Cross-post from infoshop:
"This is asinine. The ACLU is not an enemy. They will not help you throw a brick through a window, and I doubt they would lie to protect you, but they are not the cops, and they will help you defend yourself against the police through a limited number of procedural channels. If you get your teeth kicked in by the police you absolutely want to have the ACLU by your side. They are valuable allies, both tactically and strategically. I know of several examples where they have gotten folks backs, big-time. Please do not shittalk the ACLU."
I have to wonder what motivates these anons to induce folks to fear the ACLU... *coughcointelprocoughcough*
Obviously, don't do anything big-time illegal infront of them. Or anyone else for that matter, i mean duh guys. I'd bet that a lot (not all) of them have vision problems that prevents them from noticing when protestors break laws, but quickly clear up when the cops do. Use your head and practise good SC, obvious.
*cough cointelpro cough
*cough cointelpro cough cough*
if the fbi is seriously paying for agents to post on anarchistnews.org to get us to cut off our ties with fair-weather friends such as the a.c.l.u., they're sort of doing us a favor, in a way. to me "they will help you defend yourself against the police through a limited number of procedural channels" and "i doubt they would lie to protect you" are just a nice way of saying they are flakes with an ambivalent attitude towards cooperating with law enforcement. how does not having a bunch of flakes willing to cooperate with law enforcement as our allies in any way weaken our strategic position, as suggested by the insinuation that this anti-aclu shit is cointlpro
i'm not specifically out to piss of the aclu, i think that's stupid, but the only reason we need them is because we don't have our own lawyers. why don't we have our own lawyers? i don't know, probably has something to do with all of us being do-nothing punks, stoner metalheads and hipster liberal arts majors.
Neither the NLG or the ACLU
Neither the NLG or the ACLU is a monolithic organization. They are both large.
The G-20 will have a legal line hosted by the ACLU/NLG working together. It is not unusual that in some places the local ACLU affiliate works well with the NLG and in some places they do not work together much at all. A large number of ACLU lawyers and staff are NLG members.
Yes, the ACLU is not a revolutionary organization. It was not founded to be one. The NLG on the other had is quite Left. It is non-denominational left I would say. These organizations have different purposes. They are both old and will be around for a long time.
This phone line will be open in a day or two and will be staffed through out the events. The phone number will be 412-562-5015. Write it down, you may need it.
Legal observers will be both ACLU and NLG and they will be working TOGETHER. They have done it in the recent past, Denver for example.
Please spread the word 412-562-5015.
I think people on this site
I think people on this site would be far better served by utilizing the PGRP's legal line and resources. It's active at 412-444-3553
Until someone claims not
Until someone claims not only authorship of this article, but provides actual proof for these allegations, this article is worthless. Also, proof needs to be provided that the ACLU have at anytime testified against protesters.
If these things are not done, this article needs to be cast aside and deleted. There's no point encouraging stupidity amongst anarchists, they can provide enough of that without help from disinformation on anarchistnews.
agreed.
agreed.
Historically, the ACLU did
Historically, the ACLU did turn its' back on folks during the McCarthy-era Red Scare (here is one link I found to info on this, though in honesty, I don't have time to do a thorough search or the best citations right now - http://civilliberty.about.com/od/historyprofiles/ig/History-of-the-ACLU/History-of-the-ACLU--1950-1963.htm). More recently, the ACLU has generally taken the side of radicals and protestors on the grounds of free speech, often including far right protestors (such is idealism). I am not the original poster of the article, and as such can't vouch for its authenticity. Since I led off the responses though, here's more...
What I was trying to say in my initial post is to not rely on or trust the ACLU as an ally. This is different than saying they are an enemy, and conflating the two stinks of dualistic thinking. I opened with "fucking aclu" because it is really exasperating for me to continue hearing about such a large idealistic group that is grounding themselves in such a cynically written document - it's like if I were to say "it stinks here, but we are dedicated to making it smell better, we just need to all huddle closer to this big turd."
Yes, the ACLU is a useful (and potentially powerful) tool, in some situations. Just remember to use all the precautions that any (potentially dangerous) powerful tool should get - wear proper eyewear and other protective clothing!
I guess I should also say that I have no idea what the "official" NLG line was about what LO's were doing in the situations I acted as one was. I just know what we did, and as far as note taking, that included recording actions by the police. Period. The NLG is a decidedly leftist group (in contrast to the ACLU being a constitutionalist group). How far we can trust leftists has been illustrated repeatedly (not very), but in that milieu, my experience is that they are some of the most moderate, and yet most reliable allies to anarchists or others engaging in confrontation.
--ingrate
source
source documents:
http://amoryresistencia.blogspot.com/2009/09/sometimes-you-need-to-choose-side.html
That links to a blog which
That links to a blog which links to this and an ACLU statement that says none of the things this article claims. Then the "source documents" lead to a site in which you need to register for.
Once again, this article fails to actually provide proof of these allegations. Attention Idiot Anarchists: When Posting Things That May Determine People's actions at large events, provide some EASILY ACCESSIBLE proof or seriously, sit the hell down.
Also when you register it
Also when you register it says:
"You have just tried to access the document titled "ACLU PA needs legal observers for the G20 college blurb.pdf -- September 11, 2009 1:04 pm -- 60k". This document is located in the KeepandShare account "loveandresistance". To view it you need to ask the owner of the account "loveandresistance" to set the Share With controls to give your KeepandShare user name rights to view the document."
Fuckin moronic.
i see, so quoting from
i see, so quoting from source material with an identified document means nothing?
back in the day, people looking to verify information would do something called fact-checking. that means, you pick up the phone and call someone, or do a simple internet search. could you not find a number for the aclu? let me see, a quick search for G20 on the pennsylvania ACLU website got me a number to call, a call for observers, and language quoted directly in the text of the article.
but, why do any work when you can defend the ACLU at the expense of other anarchists?
so, asshole, someone who had access to the original document didn't do the technology right-- again, maybe giving *anarchists* like oh, say the writers of this article and the people who reposted the story on the blog a little more respect than say, the fucking ACLU, would be in order-- but no, that might be asking too much since they call out the liberals you are loving so fucking much.
but here is the document the article quotes-- not top secret mind you-- i'm sure you could have gotten yourself a copy, had you *really* wanted to find it.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=a755fc36d70c91f336df4e8dca1419692a9bd9850bd40c50ce018c8114394287
Who ever posted about citing
Who ever posted about citing proper resources is a complete fuck-wit. It took me all of 5 minutes to find the info on the material (which I must admit was fairly quoted by the original article). I have read so many articles on this web-site and others not to mention zines and even books that never bother to actually quote source material let alone cite it. Here we have an article that quotes directly from source material...which is a good model. I don't know what all the rallying to the ACLU is all about? They are not the only ones (nor even the primary ones)that do legal observing. People have mentioned the NLG but there have been numerous law collectives that have been doing this for a decade. They all have materials, also easily available, and none of the ones I have seen are as outlandish as the ACLU's training material. Why can't we ask them to train their legal observers the same way as these other groups? Who are they accountable to, their funders, their board of directors, the state? If they are their to help us then it seems reasonable we should critique their trainings and demand they change them if we feel it might put us in jeopardy. If they refuse then it seems reasonable we have every right to expel them from our protests. If we do not critique the sacred cow of ACLU we are giving a big "fuck you" to other legal organizations and collectives that actually work with us and take in account our security and concerns. So is the ACLU the same as the cops? No. Are they same as Nazis?No. Do they provide support to the cops? Its hard to say but their own material suggests they have no principled stand against it and are willing to aid them. Do they provide support to Nazis? Yes, again and again. It is under the cover of some bull-shit principle but where were they when anarchists fighting the mask law in NYC, they were defending out of state KKK members in Manhattan. Are these really our allies? Maybe, but they then must have a dialogue with us and take in account our concerns or otherwise fuck them...we don't need them. There are others groups willing, ready and able to help us without putting us at risk.
It has nothing to do with
It has nothing to do with defending the ACLU, and I could give two fucks less if some scumfuck internet anarchist thinks so. What I do care about is posting articles that could drastically effect how people act at a major demo, without properly citing evidence. I shouldn't have to search, call or write a letter for it, if you're going to post an article, that shit needs be right there.
Also your mediafire link says "No Files Found".
Why is it so fucking hard to just post the thing that this article cites? Maybe because it doesn't actually exist and this is either the work of feds or anarchists so idiotic that they might as well be feds?
the link worked for me. it
the link worked for me. it links to a document called "Legal Observer Overview G20.pdf"
maybe some people have
maybe some people have trouble cutting and pasting-- it's known to happen to idiots.
try this link: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jywnq5t5ngz
I didn't find this document
I didn't find this document on the webpage the pdf linked to, but I did find this description.
ACLUPA: Legal Observers Needed
On September 24 and 25, 2009, Pittsburgh will play host to the G-20 summit. Mass protests are expected, and there will be a considerable law enforcement presence, estimated at 4,000 officers representing many different agencies.
The ACLU is seeking volunteer legal observers to monitor the demonstrations to ensure that everyone's constitutional rights are respected.
You do not need any special knowledge to be a legal observer, just a commitment to civil liberties and the ability to remain impartial. We'll provide all the training and resources.
As a legal observer, you will:
* Help people exercise their rights to speak, assemble, and petition the government
* Remain a neutral observer and document, as thoroughly as possible, any incidents, arrests, or official misconduct during a protest
* Provide protesters and the general public with Know Your Rights information
As a legal observer, you will not:
* Get actively involved or serve as an intermediary between the protesters and the police
* Take a position of support for any party involved (be it police, demonstrators or counter-protesters)
* Interfere with arrests or other actions taken by the police
This is absurd! Just because
This is absurd! Just because a single knucklehead can't cut and paste or pick up a phone or do an internet search they think people with concerns must be feds. I do agree that an article like this is important because it should effect way people act in a mobilization and hopefully outside of one. We should require any organization/group that wants to "help" us actually think about the ramifications of what they are doing. That is assuming that the ACLU actually wants to help militant anarchists (they may or may not). What ever happened to accountability to the groups and people you serve? Is it really that unreasonable to ask the ACLU or any other group to not train random people to document things that could be used against our friends and comrades? It seems at least one poster is more concerned about ruffling the feathers of the ACLU than actually protecting our own community. I don't give a fuck who you are, I don't want unaccountable people documenting my actions at a protest that can later be used by the cops.
Besides the ACLU and legal
Besides the ACLU and legal observers, there are the police, the media, bystanders, "peace" organizers and so on that attend these events that challenge the "security" of anarchists and others that want to participate in these protests. The ACLU are just one of the many potential "threats" to anarchists, but looking at the ACLU history, it should be clear that the ACLU is more covering their own ass as an institution because legal observation often favors protesters and often legal observers are put under threat of police arrest and violence.
Anyways, this is not a unique consideration and is just part of how legal observers play into how the legal system typically benefits from mass mobilizations and activism. They will often defend protesters because the protesters provide lawyers with money. Think about the $$$ that protesters raise for legal costs. ACLU typically favors the side of the defense and acts against prosecution in the legal system because of its overt aims and how it benefits materially from this.
occam's razor has not
occam's razor has not dulled. lawyers gotsta get paid!
Unlike private attorneys,
Unlike private attorneys, the ACLU does not charge its clients. If they sue the police and win or get their client a settlement, they will (like all lawyers) take a portion of those winnings. But their clients do not end up paying anything out of pocket.
thank you! that was all I
thank you! that was all I was asking for. i have no allegiance to the ACLU, but these type of allegations must have proof presented with them.
and to think, some of these posters dream of a new world. you can't even fucking link properly to an important document that may determine how people act at a demo. lmao.
I am not sure what all the
I am not sure what all the discussion is about. If you need a lawyer, get a lawyer. If you want a law suit you need lawyers and evidence.
NLG and ACLU legal observers are properly trained and work with an organization that has lawyers who are licensed to practice in that jurisdiction, and experienced in that type of law. You are right, the ACLU doesn't often do legal observing, but they have been in Pittsburgh for a long time because the NLG chapter has been very quiet for a long time.
Law Collectives have their purposes, but if they do not have the above listed resources, they will not be bringing law suits or appearing in court.
The NLG and the ACLU can do those things and have been for a long time. Many Legal Collective members are NLG members, which is quite useful all around. Often the NLG and the ACLU work together, for example the Denver convention 18 months ago. And as I said earlier, a suprising number of ACLU employees are NLG members.
I am not quite sure what a small group of legal observers not tied to a legal machine, are going to do. In relatively short order the police will understand that those observers can be ignored, and the police will then ignore them.
But by all means, please do call whom ever you want to call. If there is some legal action that needs to be taken, if you are lucky you will still end up talking to an ACLU of NLG lawyer.
Many of the local Pittsburgh activists have been represented by these exact same ACLU and NLG lawyers in the past.
NLG/ACLU legal line 412-562-5015
See you in a week.
Isn't Bob Black a lawyer?
Isn't Bob Black a lawyer?
i'll only let zombie abbie
i'll only let zombie abbie hoffman on zombie acid defend me in court.
- DBC (don't buy courtiers)