DC hardcore punk flyers

Here's a few flyers from DC's hardcore punk heyday. I'll scan more when I get the time. Which should be in a couple weeks. 

Old ads of Septic Death, Wipers, XClaim!, and more.

Continuing with the posting of old ads from MRR and Flpside...

I found the Fartz ad interesting, as they announce they are becoming 10 Minute Hate. The Septic Death ad with Pushead art, and the rest. Enjoy.

more old ads

Here's more ads from old issues of Maximum Rocknroll and a very early issue of Flipside. Enjoy. Of course, don't even think of writing to any of these addresses.

INSTIGATORS interview

This is a pretty lengthy interview I did through the mail with Andy from the Instigators. He sent out letters to various fanzines prior to their US tour in 1986 to get interviews and spread the word they were coming over. Needless to say, I was way beyond stoked. They toured with the Detonators (Redondo Beach, CA) and played at the Velvet Underground in OKC on August 4, 1986. Still one of the best shows I have ever seen. Easily in my top five. The local openers were 151 Black Bats, which I believe had members from Brown 25. Anyway, Nick Toczek also toured with the Detonators and Instigators. First spoken word performance I ever experienced. The Detonators were amazing. I remember they ended one song, and the drummer kept raging away. The singer turned and had to physically get him to stop. Then the Instigators took the stage and absolutely destroyed!!!
From stop to start they were an intense mass of energy. The bass player kept jumping from the stage and standing on the floor while everyone circle pitted around him. Andy, the singer, prowled back and forth on the stage belting out song after song. At the end, he climbs on to a speaker, jumps into the air, and goes through the drop tiled ceiling. The tiles come crashing down, and a huge cloud of dust follows with it. Andy slowly looks up and everyone is going crazy.
This interview ran in Schizo, and was the longest I had ever done at that point. Most of these questions are pretty lame, and I can't believe Andy even took the time to answer them, looking back. But I was stoked. Obviously, I've held on to that letter/interview for over 22 years now. Crazy...

Who are the members of the Instigators, and how long have you been around?



Andy : Instigators are: Simon Mooney - guitar, Andy Turner - vocals, Steve Curran - drums, Andy Turnbull - bass. Instigators, as a band, have been around since 1981, but this is the line-up, although only being together for about a year have been very active playing nearly as many times in twelve months as the old line-up did in about four years.

What has become of the ex-members of the Instigators?

Andy : The first one to leave, Semi, the old singer, who quit last May just as the LP was released, is now trying to fit into the monotony of small town life, not wishing to overstep the lines drawn by his peers and his friends. One of the reasons he left/was thrown out (it's debatable) was the hold his girlfriend had over him, which caused a lot of ill feeling among the old line-up. Both Tab (the old bassist) and Hammy (ex-drummer) quit at the same time, but for different reasons. It was at a time when Instigators were beginning to get serious and were making the transition from being something done in their spare time to being a full time working unit, geared to touring. Hammy couldn't take the pace and was relying heavily on alcohol and his private life was really getting fucked up, so he needed time to get his shit together and thought he wouldn't be able to do it by remaining in Instigators. He's the only one of the people who quit that's still active in bands. He's regretting leaving, and is now singing for a band called Civilized Society. Tab felt he needed the security of his day job - something he would have had to give up to take on the band full time. The crux of it is me and Simon had faith, the others didn't and now they're stuck in the same old rut as all the people around them. They're on the heap. Tough shit!

What are some of your songs about?

Andy : They relay personal feeling towards various thing, we don't start out with a set pattern at writing lyrics, so we don't get bogged down in the same old cliched traps as the safe zone punks do, we don't feel the need to force ourselves to write 'punk' lyrics (I'm not saying these are irrelevant, but too many bands see things like nuclear war as being an easy way to let people know they're a 'punk band'- we're more into honest feelings, too many people just re-hash various pamphlets. I like lyrics that confront and provoke thought). We touch on various subjects, far too many and widespread to explain. Lyrics are what you make of them.

Where do you get the ideas for your songs?

Andy : Again, it depends on the song. We're inspired by what we feel and what we see around us. Things we feel strongly about, or things we feel need to be conveyed to more people who perhaps are unaware of some of the injustices that are happening right under their noses.

What made you decide to start Instigators?

Andy : I can't really answer that because I only joined the band a year ago.

What songs do you enjoy the most?

Andy : I can only speak for myself, but I enjoy playing all the songs we play live. If any of us didn't really like them, then I don't think we'd do them.

How long do your shows usually last?

Andy : It really depends on the atmosphere. It can vary between our standard set of about 30 to 35 minutes to 1 1/2 hours, when we couldn't get off stage in Germany. We prefer the shorter sets as things tend to get boring the longer it goes on. We hit hard and fast, and what happens next is up to the people we're trying to impress.

About how many songs do you play in your set?

Andy : Usually about twelve, with some left over just in case we get called back to do more.

Are any of you straight-edge?

Andy : No, none of us are. But that doesn't mean we all drink to excess either. We know when to stop, we don't need some moral majority type organization to tell us what we can or can't do.

How do you usually deal with problems in your life?

Andy : That depends on what the problem is really. I could become irrational or sit and think it out, depending on my mood or situation. At the moment we have very few major problems to deal with.

What is your opinion on the American government?

Andy : Who actually runs America? Is it Reagan and his circus, or is it multi-nationals like Coca- Cola? I'm not really in a position to judge, you'd better answer for me. After all, you have to live there - we only have a government that does all America's dirty work.

Do you think metalcore, speed metal, or whatever that mixes punk with heavy metal, will ruin punk?

Andy : I think apathy on a grand scale, like what we're suffering here in the UK at the moment, is far more of a problem. We should all be open-minded enough to listen to anything, but too many people are insecure and feel the need to belong to some group of people. They seek sanctuary among all the things they're supposed to be breaking down. All these little cliques are a drag though. Whatever happened to unity and open-mindedness?

Are any of you vegetarians?

Andy : Well, three of us don't eat meat and one does, but that's no big deal. We don't try to pressure people into anything, you can't do that, people have to see for themselves, you can't force them.

What is your favorite food?

Andy : Our favorite tour food is most definitely pizzas, so when we roll into Moore, OK you'll know what to stock your freezer with, as well as the Budweisers won't you Matt?

Do you have a favorite movie?

Andy : I have a few favorites; Apocalypse Now, Blues Brothers, Cabaret. I thought Gremlins and Ghostbusters were both fun, and there's more, but I can't remember them at the moment.

Who is your favorite band and what's your favorite song? Why?

Andy : Real hard! I don't have a favorite band, but here's some bands I like at the moment, the reasons are pretty different bit the main link is they appeal to me. Bands like Husker Du, DOA, Toxic Reasons, MC5, Rolling Stones, The Cult, Agent Orange, Patti Smith, Iron Maiden, and many more.

Any ideas to bring about world peace?

Andy : Eliminate greed.

What are your feelings towards religion?

Andy : Religion, in the same way as politics, should be a very personal thing. I've grown to despise people trying to ram something down my throat. If people need something to believe in, then who am I to take that away from them. I personally don't need that. I don't need all the shit that goes with it. The wars, the hatred, the repression. the petty morality that goes hand in hand with it.

What are your feelings on racism?

Andy : The same as I feel towards sexism. People have no right to judge people by the amount of x chromosomes or the colour of their skin. Think hard about it, it's so fucking childish. It's like kids at school getting at the fat kid or the girl with glasses. Some people never grow up. After all, what kind of a person runs round at night wearing a sheet and a pointy pillow-case on his head? Real people can handle the real world!

Who was the first punk band you saw in concert?

Andy : It was Siouxsie & the Banshees at the Huddersfield Polytechnic in 1978. The week after I went to Victoria Park, London to the big Rock Against Racism festival with the Clash, Tom Robinson Band, Xray Spex, and more, with 80,000 people. Great stuff!

Do any of you have jobs besides the band? Do you like the idea of holding down a job?

Andy : No, none of us have enough spare time to work outside Instigators. None of us could hold a job down full time due to all the touring we do. I don't really want to work for somebody else. I don't believe in the work ethic. I'm not lazy, but I don't wanna slave to line someone elses pocket.



What cities are you looking forward to playing here in the USA?

Andy : I hope to be able to make it to places like Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Detroit, Dallas, Memphis, Anchorage would be nice. Anywhere would be nice. The more places the better.

How many shows do you have set up for the tour so far?

Andy : I don't know. Juan from the Detonators is organizing the tour. He'll let us know when everything is sorted out.

Do you think there will ever be a nuclear war or World War 3?

Andy : I hope not, but it's hard to believe there won't be. I hope I never live to experience it.

What are your views on punk?

Andy : It should be something flexible, a state of mind. Not a style of music, not a dress code, but a positive attitude. Something to do with changem with trying to better yourself without having to submit to all the petty rules and regulations. Control as much of your destiny as possible.

Is there a lot of violence in the scene where you live?

Andy : Not really. But that's mainly down to the fact there isn't really a scene at all!

What is the neighborhood like that you live in?

Andy : Typical of most Northern towns and cities that were built around the prosperous wool / cotton industries that flourished at the end of the last century, but suffered after the second World War. Rows and rows of terraced houses, very gray, very industrialized, a major driving force behind getting away and hopefully never coming back.

What kind of people live on your street?

Andy : Most of our street is made up of Asians who work bad hours, but unlike the more densely populated areas, Blacks, Whites, Greens, etc, all mix okay. Because they all work weird hours (bus drivers, taxi drivers) there's no pressure on us to turn the noise down. That's good.
I gotta mention our next door neighbours, Jeepers Creepers and his wife who's expecting her first baby and they look after our cat, Marvin, while we're away.

What are some of the things you hate?

Andy : Apathy, boredom, golf, meat, jerkoffs, football fans (the ones who live up to the stereotypes), snooker, winter, the time between tours, frustration, and more.

Is there a club that you particularly enjoy playing?

Andy : I don't really know, I don't think the place plays a big part. It's the situation and the atmosphere that makes it memorable and places here in Europe don't usually last that long anyway.

I've been told that the TV show, I Love Lucy, is shown all over the world. So, is it shown in England?

Andy : Yes it is. sometimes. But it's really unfunny. The Munsters, and Adams Family are much better. Lucille Ball is so boring!

Describe a funny experience that has happened to you while on tour.

Andy : What we may think is funny might not be the same to you. There's a lot of in jokes, but things like Steve hiding in a cardboard box in Stockholm that I thought had a TV in, and then scaring me to death when I opened it. Or the tappings I heard in the hotel in Alkmaar, Holland, or all the band doipng the encore in Ffeuzheim, Germany in our underpants for a laugh. We do get pretty childish on tour.

How does your family treat you since you're in a band? Do they ever ask you things like why are you doing it, or when will you grow up?

Andy : They've gotten used to it. At first it used to piss them off that I didn't have a 'real' job. But now they realize it's what I want to do, and they don't mind. All they've got to do it look around them and see the people I went to school with sink deeper and deeper, and go nowhere.

What are some of your bad habits?

Andy : Biting my nails, drugs (in moderation), drinking wine, still getting enthusiastic about playing, becoming obnoxious with people I don't want to talk to, cravings for Jack Daniels, and watching terrible TV soap operas.

What compilations have you appeared on, and what songs did you put on the comps?

Andy : We've been on too many tapes to start to mention, some we don't even know about. So I'll stick to the records; "Monkey Man" and Old Soldiers" were on "Bollocks To The Gonads" LP, "Dine Upon The Dead" is on "We Don't Want Your Fucking War" LP, and "The Blood Is On Your Hands", "53rd State", "Free", and "Wrong Word" were on Pushead's "Cleanse The Bacteria" LP. We have tracks coming out on a few more compilations soon.

What is the legal drinking age where you live?

Andy : Eighteen, but no one adheres to it.

When was the first time you performed?

Andy : Me and Andy were in a band called Xpozez, and our first gig was here in Huddersfield on St. Valentine's Day (14th, February 1980). It seems like ages.

How do you feel about life?

Andy : I enjoy it. I have a rule that if I don't enjoy something any more then I cease to do it. The same goes for life.

Do you have a favorite recipe or joke you'd like to tell?

Andy : We can't cook anything here as we had our gas cut off at Christmas, so we have no favorite recipes. We live on pizzas and sandwiches. Didn't anyone ever tell you that anarchists had no sense of humour?

OKLAHOMA PUNK FLYERS part 2

Here's some more flyers from Oklahoma in the Eighties. Hard to believe there was a punk scene there. Even then at the time when it was happening...

DOWN SYNDROME interview

Here's one with Down Syndrome, from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Another one conducted through the mail. This may have ran in the second to last zine I did in Oklahoma called Schizo. At the time I didn't give it much thought, but for Jan to even take the time to answer five questions was pretty cool. Most bands or people could have told me to fuck off. Maybe these days, but I think back then was very different. This was done in early 1986. I have no idea if they ever released the LP mentioned in the interview. I do have the EP they put out themselves on Black Sun in 1984. The band name had nothing to do with the genetic disorder. Instead, the meaning of their name, as they state in the EP cover fold out, "is derived from the direct definitions of the words in reference to humanity's condition. DOWN - to a lower or worse condition. SYNDROME - a group of signs and symptoms that occur together and characterize a particular abnormality."

Who are the members of the band, and how did you get the name?

A brief history: Sjor (drums & vocals) and Bob (bass, vocals) coined that troublesome moniker in late '82. After a few short lived guitarists came and went, Laurie and Dave came into it, around May '83. That line-up released the now unavailable "Dark Age" cassette. Then Dave went and Jan came in for guitar and vocals, around May '84, then the EP was released. In the spring of '86 Bob moved out of the house and distances set us so decided we needed a new bass player. In June '86 we began working with Scott, whom we'd known personally for a while and seen in some recent local bands; Fetish, Primitive Ballet, and Ghost Shirt Society.
Eight months down the road, we've done a lot of road 'round these parts (Vancouver, Portland, Winnipeg, etc), are currently working on a demo that is preparation for an LP that we've been longing to do - and which we need to tour.
Our sound has changed a lot since the EP. We play with lots of power and emotion still, but it is a lot less narrow of a genre than the EP's material was in. To me, it sounds much like a hard rocking HC band, with heavy tribal rhythms and jazzier / funkier / pop melodies...

Who writes the songs, and where do you al get the ideas for the songs?

Musically, our riffs for one song may be entirely individual, at times riffs are reworked by the band. However, our parts are distinctive and individually created and, for example, Sjor's rhythm will ulitmately affect the result of a riff made by one of the guitarists. It's equal musically. Lyrically, it's left up to the vocalist, either Jan, Scott, or Sjor.

Do you all think drugs are ruining the scene?

Excessive use, habit, and dependance is harmful in whatever "scene" you're in. You wanna get free right? Letting others tell me what to do or don't (like drugs do), ruins my scene! Think for yourself.



If you could say anything to the world today what would it be?

After thinking about all I could say... (Vivisections is another inhumanity, .... is my favorite beer, Reagan is wrong, unite, etc) I realize it would be just garbage. Give this world a few seconds of silence.

Do you have anything to say to the people of Oklahoma?

How about to the people of Portage La Prairie, Manitoba? That's my home town and I miss it bad, the mess of a hole it was. I love my family there. Hey, Laurie's from there too. I'm playing in a band up in Edmonton. We've got a good crowd, and they're a blast to play for, bands from Oklahoma should see them! We sell some records and T-shirts too. Well, I got to go, kettle's boiling.

MARK ANDERSEN interview

This was an interview I had done for my old and defunct zine, Engine. It’s been languishing on a zip disc for about 7 years now. Figured I need to do something with it. So here you go.

For those who might not know, Dance Of Days is a book chronicling part of the DC punk scene (largely centered around Dischord) from the early days to when things started getting weird in the early to mid 90s when punk became a strange place that no longer made sense. So it goes...

Even though the subject matter of this interview is a book on punk, I think much of what is said can be applied to anyone, whether they have interest in reading this book or not. Ultimately this is a story of someone finding themselves via the channels and doors that punk presents.
Interview by Matt Average


M.Avrg : What made you want to write Dance Of Days?

Mark : Well, I came to DC in 1984, and I’d had kind of, already, a punk lifetime if you will, because a lot of people, in their teens or early 20s they were starting to wonder, Is this really for me anymore? By their mid 20s they’re on to something else. I had kind of gone through that. I came to DC actually to go to school, to grad school, and have a career. Instead, I found what I like. So, part of that discovery was, literally, encountering the DC punk scene, and becoming involved with it and learning a little bit about its history. By 1986, right at the tail end of what could be called the Revolution Summer period, it was just apparent to me that it was a great story, and someone should write it down. No one was writing it down, so being a punk, I volunteered.

M.Avrg : What was your first experience with DC punk?

Mark : Ironically, my very first experience with DC punk is very negative, as I mention it in the book. My first direct encounter with DC punk is seeing Nazi skinhead graffiti on a pay phone across the street from the apartment I moved in to in the DuPont Circle area of DC. And much of my initial impression was very negative. Part of it was I that I had come there knowing some about the DC scene already. I was from Montana, and news of it had already reached Montana, about PMA, and Bad Brains, and straight-edge, and Minor Threat, and all those other bands. Henry Rollins, obviously. I knew of him because of Black Flag. I knew he was from DC, from that scene. So I was kind of shocked to see this kind of fabled scene and how much violence and stupidity and conformity seemed to be running rampant there. Now, the good news was that wasn’t the whole story. As I got involved in helping to set up this group that would become Positive Force, a punk activist collective, I started running into other people who were kindred spirits. Largely from the Dischord crowd, who were preparing for this idea, or this moment called Revolution Summer, and we just became friends and allies. In the process, I learned a lot about the history of the DC scene, and became very inspired by what I saw.

M. Avrg : Is this when you became inspired to write the book?

Mark : I came up with the idea in ‘86, not terribly long after Embrace broke up. At that point I began to do interviews. By late ‘86 I was doing interviews, I was gathering old flyers, old audio tapes, video tapes, fanzines, any kind of scrap or document that I could find about DC punk I was starting to gather and immerse myself in that. And that immersion went on for about seven years because there was this intense work around researching from ‘86 to ‘93, when I started the rough draft of the book. I took some notes personally as I was doing that, but a lot of things I was at, personally, when I can came back to the book I was relying on tapes and photos, stuff like that. Memory is sometimes really reliable, and sometimes it’s not.

M.Avrg : Was it hard not to romanticize the past as you were writing the book?

Mark : It wasn’t hard for me, I don’t think, because by the time I was writing this town I kind of seen this story... It turned out the story I was trying to writing was part way through a certain cycle. By ‘93 it was starting to complete that cycle, from starting out very small, terribly marginal, and then going into something that was ushered into the mainstream in some sense. As I learned the story it was clear to me that this was the story of human beings, so there was a lot of mistakes, bad choices, and failure. That’s youth. It was really important to me to reflect that, including the mistakes I was making, or that I make in the context of that. To not pull any punches. To be fair and accurate, but also honest, because there’s not point in doing it other wise. I felt, and you might think, Well wouldn’t it be hard? You’re really passionately moved by something. You’re inspired by something, and you see it in a rosy light? Well, by ‘93, ‘94, ‘95, when I’m writing this down, I’m not seeing it in a rosy light. I’m seeing a lot of my own failures, I’m seeing a lot of the failures of other folks. I’m also seeing, of course, the beautiful stuff, the accomplishing, and inspiring stuff. And I would never make a pretense of somehow being objective, if objectivity can exist. We’re all caught within a certain context. Try as we might, we’re biased. And that’s okay, as far as I’m concerned. I think it’s pretty clear to people that I’m pretty open about what my bias might be. I also tried very hard to document stuff and to be fair and accurate to everybody. It’s funny, because some people have critiqued the book saying that it’s too dry. That there’s not enough of the juice, like where’s the passion there? Well, I think it’s a passionate account. But it’s also one that’s trying to be just more than my account, obviously. I have a co-author, and so both our voices have to be represented.

M.Avrg : I find personality comes out in the later years, the later chapters.

Mark : As you’ll notice the book is set up to be framed by a very personal prologue, which talks about where I am when punk starts to happen, and how it effects me. But also about the ‘60s counter-culture, which is the essential foundation to understand how punk comes about. You really can’t understand punk without understanding the sense of betrayal of the promise of the ‘60s. So that was really important for me to be there, both for me historically, and also for accuracy historically. Then of course, at the very end of the book, I’m back in Montana, and this time I’m writing from the other end of the cycle. All these friend of mine, or acquaintances of mine, or peers of mine, are rock stars. They’re on the covers of magazines, and I’m seeing it from this context where I was this lost lonely teenager. I felt like, and other people may disagree, but I felt like that was a good way to frame things, and to bring in my personal perception, and to be able to ask some questions that maybe Mark (Jenkins) would be uncomfortable asking, because Mark, even though he’s been... I consider Mark Jenkins a punk, and he’s been around since the very beginning of the DC punk scene. He’s a great writer, he knows an awful lot, and he’s very smart. But, he’s a journalist, I’m not a journalist. I guess I am in some sense, but my primary identification is an activist. As a punk, understanding my definition of that, which is maybe not other people’s definition, but it’s mine. So Mark has tried to keep a certain distance, I’m really not interested in distance. I’m willing to participate and get in the thick of things. So, I think we managed to strike a good balance where some of the personal stuff could be shared, but also preserve enough of an objective tone so that it could be both in my voice and Mark’s voice. I think it made for a much stronger book than otherwise.

M.Avrg : Going back to what you said about the feeling of betrayal from the ‘60s counter-culture. Do you think there will be something created in the next few years by the people who feel betrayed by the commodification of punk?

Mark : It’s probably already happening. In some ways it’s already happened. We’ve seen the rise of rave, for example. Parts of the rave, or the hip-hop culture... Who knows what will come out. I don’t know what to predict. I can’t imagine that there won’t be a reaction against it. Although, it’s interesting, because if we look back it seems like cycles were happening more quicker then. There’s the initial rock explosion in the mid 50s, and then it kind of died down by the early ‘60s. Then it kind of explodes again in the mid ‘60s. Then punk comes along and explodes in the mid to late ‘70s. Now, we’re sitting at a point where we’re well into 25 plus years of punk. And you don’t see something connected to rock that is rising that is kind of new. You see a lot of the old things kind of playing themselves out. And obviously, there’s the punk underground that is thriving, and in a sense is already what you’re talking about; it is in rebellion against perceived failures of certain parts of the punk community. It’s an interesting question, and I can’t pretend to have an answer to it. I am certain however that anytime people try a would be revolutionary cultural experiment, counter-cultural experiment, that certain ground is gained, and there’s also certain sense of the promise is not entirely fulfilled, and that provides a foundation for a new movement. And also something that it reacts against. I don’t know if it will come from rock music, or if it will be tied to rock music, because in way, and Mark Jenkins would probably disagree, but to me in some sense, part of what this book is about is arguably a failed effort to prevent rock music from simply turned into a consumer commodity. In a way punk is trying to revive certain romantic ideals around rocknroll, where it’s kind of a street music, the music of the disaffected, of the rebel. You know, Bill Clinton, his campaign song was a rock song. All of our TV advertisement at this point... Who would have believed someone like Iggy Pop’s “Search & Destroy” could be used for a car commercial? It’s an intense song that’s borne of this raw outrage and confusion of the Vietnam War, and the nuclear threat. But it has been. I just saw this terrible ad with David Bowie. I don’t know what David Bowie is up to, but it’s an Absolut ad that takes the Aladin Sane cover graphic and turns that into an ad. There’s this great quote that I quote in the last chapter from Ira Robbins, who was from Trouser Press, which was this really cool magazine, and he says, “Overwhelming economic synergy has rendered absurd the idea that rock still exists in opposition against anything. Above the lowest grass roots level of independents everything is for sale, and nothing is forbidden.” He goes on to say, “It’s obvious any traditional beliefs in rocknroll as a vehicle for social and cultural progress are obsolete.” Rock is so thoroughly part of the mainstream fabric and so thoroughly coopted. That’s why I brought up rave. Because rave in a lot of ways reacts against... It’s not rock music. It’s something entirely different. Who knows. The basic answer to your question is I simply don’t know. But I do believe that anytime people try something idealistic and utopian, which punk in many ways, had a lot of those elements, you’re going to fall short. And the fact you’re falling short will provide, in a weird way, fuel for another endeavor, another utopian endeavor. There are certain elements out there in the rave culture.

M.Avrg : Were there any stories you wanted to include in the book...

Mark : (laughing) That aren’t in there? I’ll answer the question this way, I did a rough draft of this book that is quite boring of the book that exists now. When I did the rough draft I was shocked and horrified of how much of these really extraordinary stories, all these stories that I had to leave out.

M.Avrg : Wasn’t it supposed to be on Pressure Drop Press?

Mark : That’s who I was working with when I was doing the rough draft, Martin Sprouse, from Pressure Drop Press. I would have continued to work with him, but when it was delayed for so long we developed an understanding. My intent was to return to Martin, and when I decided I did want to work on it again, I did talk to Martin and, basically, he was at a place after Tim Yohannon passed away, I kind of got the sense that Martin needed to move on to other things, and let go of Pressure Drop.

M.Avrg : Let’s talk about Positive Force. I remember in the late 80s and early 90s it was very visible to the punk scene at large. And then after a while I hadn’t seen anything about it, and I thought it was over. Then in the book, and seeing the literature tonight, I see it’s still happening.

Mark : Absolutely. Positive Force represents the DC ethic in a lot of ways. At least the DC ethic as I understand it. A lot of people may have a different understanding. But my understanding is, you do the work, and the work is not... you just go get your job done. You make your music, you set up your demonstrations, you get food to hungry mouths. You let your actions speak for themselves. Positive Force continues to do the same things it’s always done. Arguably, there have been big changes in the community, maybe it has led it to being a little less high profile. I never felt like we had a very high profile. I feel like a lot of people know about it largely because of Fugazi, who had such a profound impact. People know because they care about, and have been passionately moved by Fugazi. We’re actually headed toward what I think is a huge step forward for us. Which is a community center in DC. We’ll have a performance space there, an office space, an art gallery there, a library. All sorts of mixing of radical arts and direct service for people in the neighborhood, which is a low income neighborhood.

M.Avrg : How many people are currently involved now?

Mark : See, it’s hard to know. If we’re talking about meetings, then that’s one level of Positive Force. An average meeting, we meet every Saturday... Our house, which was a communal house was sold and demolished to build a luxury home there. We haven’t gotten into the community center yet. It won’t be ready until early next year. Actually a bunch of our stuff is in storage so we meet at my apartment. At any given meeting there’s half a dozen people there, or two dozen. Who knows. That’s not even a good way to look at Positive Force, because a lot of people who are active in Positive Force don’t necessarily come to meetings regularly. They’re out there supporting us in bands, in other organizations... I have to say, that it’s inspiring me to see that Positive Force, over 16 years after it started, is still seems relevant to people. They keep coming in, doing great stuff. It’s a continual inspiration for me. And that’s personally. There is a transition. Punk is a very transitional community. People come in and they do a lot of stuff, and maybe they move on...

M.Avrg : Are there any people involved who have been around for a while?

Mark : There are a number of people who have been around for a good period of time, but no one nearly as long as I have. Which is kind of tough. Like I said, I still find it inspiring that it’s an all volunteer group that meets every Saturday afternoon. That’s prime time for leisure activity. It just seems to be motoring along. No guarantees or anything. But I think it’s a testament to the strength of the DC community.

M.Avrg : How could someone start a Positive Force chapter in their town?

Mark : Well, basically, they certainly don’t need to call it Positive Force. There have been literally a couple of other Positive Force groups in existence. We have the resource material to give based on our experience. The basic thing is very simple, we just want a place where some people can get together and talk about what they’d like to see happen. It’s very simple, but it is revolutionary. One of our early slogans, one of our early ideas was borrowed from Chumbawamba actually, years and years ago in ‘84. In a Maximum Rocknroll interview actually, with Chumbawamba. And they said, “Isolation is the biggest barrier against change.” First and foremost, what Positive Force has strived to do, and we encourage other people to do, is to create space where kindred spirits can spark off each other. The things that are in your head that seem so impossible, when they come out of your mouth into a space of other people who share some of those ideas, suddenly it’s not so impossible at all. And that’s a beautiful thing. Very simple, but very profound.

M.Avrg : Going back to the book. There’s a part in there where you say when punk is political or socially aware, is punk at its best.

Mark : Punk, to me, is about life. It’s a window into a universe of possibilities. Which life is. I don’t think every single song has to have some profound political message. In fact, some of the silly songs are revolutionary in a way, because it’s getting in touch with another possibility in life. I do think that is essential we also ground these things in, some sense, ultimately, in awareness of our social surroundings. Or we’re just not going to be able to achieve our potential of our lives. That’s one of my big personal beliefs; that punk is not a musical style, it is not a hairstyle, or a style of clothing, or tattoos and piercings. These things are a very important part of it. But punk something is way more open ended, and something non-commodifiable. Which is part of what makes it so great. To me, it’s a spirit. No one has to agree with me, it’s just an opinion. A label is a label. What I’m interested in is life. A rich, rewarding, and beautiful life for everybody. Punk is just a word. Life is what I’m about. In the end, life is what really matters.

M.Avrg : Do you think the underground will be as strong as it was before the labels were being bought out and bands getting signed?

Mark : Good question. I think it might be stronger now than it was already. This is a challenge for us. Some of this corporate stuff actually can help the underground. Money comes in, and what do you do with it? I know labels like Epitaph and Lookout, and others, Dischord to some degree, benefitted from this. Sub Pop certainly did. Now, what do we do with those resources once they flow in? That’s a good question, and I can’t answer it. That’s a question for each one of us to ask. That again, is another thing in my book; to bring the questions back to us personally. To be less concerned with this certain figure in punk. Did that person sell out? To ask yourself, Can I sell out? Am I selling out? What does that mean? What is my life meant to be about? Am I being courageous enough to pursue that, or am I copping out? Those are the questions I ask.

www.positiveforcedc.org