Wikipedia:Categories for discussion
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Categories for discussion (CfD) is where the renaming, merging or deletion of categories – i.e. pages in the Category namespace – is discussed and action decided. Stub types templates are also discussed here.
Categories are used to organize pages and aid the browsing of related articles. For instructions as to how to use this page, perform cleanup maintenance or request speedy deletions or renamings, see "How to use CfD" below. The policies meant to guide category renaming may be found at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (categories).
Unless a change to a category is non-controversial – e.g. prompted by vandalism or duplication – please do not amend or remove the category from pages before a decision has been made.
Categories that have been listed for more than seven days are eligible for deletion, renaming or merging when a rough consensus to do so has been reached or no objections to the nomination have been raised.
When a category is renamed or merged with another category, it is usually helpful to leave an instance of the {{Category redirect|...}} template on the category's former page. See "Redirecting categories" below for more information.
Contents
Scope[edit]
CfD is only intended for discussions where an editor already has a clear action proposal in mind. For general brainstorming on how to improve the category system, good places for discussion include Wikipedia talk:Categorization, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Categories, and the talk pages of any WikiProjects relevant to the content covered by the categories in question.
Current discussions[edit]
Discussions awaiting closure[edit]
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 31
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 30
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 29
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 28
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 27
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 26
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 25 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 24 (4 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 23 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 22 (8 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 21 (7 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 20 (8 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 18 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 17 (6 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 16 (5 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 14 (6 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 13 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 12 (4 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 11 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 10 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 7 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 4 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 31 (6 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 30 (4 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 27 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 26 (4 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 25 (6 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 24 (11 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 23 (5 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 22 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 21 (4 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 20 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 19 (1 open – Irish Ombudsman)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 15 (6 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 13 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 12 (1 open – Undersized Turkey geography stub categories)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 5 (1 open – Films shot at Pinewood Atlanta Studios)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 1 (3 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 29 (4 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 28 (2 open)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 10 (1 open – Abbasid Caliphate establishments)
- Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 8 (1 open – Roman Empire establishments (1st century and earlier))
How to use CfD[edit]
Procedure[edit]
To list a category manually for deletion, merging or renaming, follow this process:
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Preliminary steps.
Determine whether the category needs deleting, merging, or renaming.
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II |
Edit the category.
Add one of the following tags at the beginning of the category text of every category to be discussed. (The tags belong on the categories' main pages rather than their talk/discussion pages.)
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III |
Create the CFD section.
Click on THIS LINK to edit the section of CFD for today's entries. Follow the instructions in the comments (visible during edit), to copy and paste the template shown. All categories are specified without the
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Once you have previewed your entry, please make sure to add your signature after your proposal.
After nominating: Notify interested projects and editors[edit]
While it is sufficient to list a category for discussion at CfD (see above), nominators and others sometimes want to attract more attention from and participation by informed editors. All such efforts must comply with Wikipedia's guideline against biased canvassing.
To encourage participation by less experienced editors, please avoid Wikipedia-specific abbreviations in the messages you leave about the discussion, link to any relevant policies or guidelines, and link to the CfD discussion page itself. If you are recommending that an category be speedily deleted, please give the criterion that it meets, such as "C1" for unpopulated categories C2C "Bringing a category into line with established naming conventions for that category tree".
- Notifying related WikiProjects
WikiProjects are groups of editors that are interested in a particular subject or type of editing. If the article is within the scope of one or more WikiProjects, they may welcome a brief, neutral note on their project's talk page(s) about the CfD.
It may also be helpful to post a message on the talkpage of a related article, like Protein family for Category:Protein families. You can use {{Cfdnotice}}
for this.
- Notifying substantial contributors to the category
While not required, it is generally considered courteous to notify the good-faith creator and any main contributors of the category and its talkpage that you are nominating for discussion. To find the creator and main contributors, look in the page history or talk page. You can use {{Cfd-notify}}
to inform the creator of the category, and {{Cfdnotice2}}
for all other editors.
At this point, you've done all you need to do as nominator. Sometime after seven days have passed, someone will either close the discussion or, where needed, "relist" it for another seven days of discussion. (That "someone" may not be you, the nominator.)
Once you have submitted a category here, no further action is necessary on your part. If the nomination is supported, helpful administrators and editors will log the result and ensure that the change is implemented to all affected pages.
Also, consider adding any categories you nominate to your watchlist. This will help ensure that your nomination tag is not mistakenly or deliberately removed.
Twinkle[edit]
The use of Wikipedia:Twinkle greatly facilitates CfD nominations. To install Twinkle, go to "my preferences", the "Gadgets" tab, the "Browsing" section and check "Twinkle ...". Use the now-installed "XfD" (Nominate for deletion) tab while viewing the page to be deleted or renamed.
Users without accounts and users with new accounts[edit]
Users without accounts (unregistered users) may nominate and comment on proceedings, just as in Articles for Deletion (AfD).
Redirecting categories[edit]
It is our general policy to delete categories that do not have articles in them. (Rationale: Unlike articles, categories are mostly for internal use only. If they don't have any articles, they shouldn't have any links from any articles or any other categories, because they are not useful for navigation and sorting.)
However, some categories frequently have articles assigned to them accidentally, or are otherwise re-created over and over. But categories cannot be redirected using "hard" redirects: #REDIRECT[[target]]. (See Wikipedia:Redirect#category for the technical details.)
Instead, we use a form of "soft redirects" to solve the issue. You can "create" a category redirect by adding {{Category redirect|target}}
to the category page. Bots patrol these categories and move articles into the "redirect" targets. Notice that it's not a redirect at all as a wiki page; it's bots that virtually make them redirects.
In particular, we set up category redirects at the former category name when we convert hyphens into en dashes or vice versa (e.g. Category:Canada-Russia relations → Category:Canada–Russia relations). It is also helpful to set up redirects from forms with plain letters (i.e. characters on a standard keyboard) where the category names include diacritics.
You can see a list of redirected categories in Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories.
Closing[edit]
When closing CfDs, document their results (e.g. with links to CfD page history) on the talk pages of the affected categories, if not deleted. If deleted, document the deletion decision in the deletion edit summary. See {{cfd top}}.
Special notes[edit]
When nominating a category, it's helpful to add a notice on the talk page of the most-closely related article. Doing so would not only extend an additional courtesy, but possibly also bring in editors who know more about the subject at hand. You can use {{Cfdnotice}} for this.
If a category is only used as generated by a template (e.g. Category:Foo Stubs to correspond with Template:Foo-stub), and that template is deleted by a regular WP:TFD process, then the category can be deleted as well as long as it was nominated along with the template, or mentioned early in the discussion.
Speedy renaming and merging
Categories may be listed for speedy renaming or speedy merging if they meet one or more of the criteria specified below. They must be tagged with {{subst:cfr-speedy|New name}}
so that users of the categories are aware of the proposal. A request may be processed 48 hours after it was listed if there are no objections. This delay allows other editors to review the request to ensure that it meets the criteria for speedy renaming or merging, and to raise objections to the proposed change.
Categories that qualify for speedy deletion (per Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion, e.g. "patent nonsense", "recreation", categories that have been empty for seven days) can be tagged with the regular speedy tags, such as {{db|reason}}
, and no delay is required to process these. Renaming under C2E can also be processed instantly as it is a variation on G7.
Contested requests become stale, and can be un-tagged and de-listed, after 7 days of inactivity. Optionally, if the discussion may be useful for future reference, it may be copied to the category talk page, with a section heading and {{moved discussion from|[[WP:CFDS]]|2=~~~~}}
. If the nominator wants to continue the process, they need to submit the request as a regular CfD in accordance with the instructions here.
Speedy criteria[edit]
The category-specific criteria for speedy renaming, or merging are strictly limited to:
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- C2A. Typographic and spelling fixes.
- Correction of spelling errors and capitalization fixes. Differences between British and American spelling (e.g. Harbours → Harbors) are not considered errors; however if the convention of the relevant category tree is to use one form over the other then a rename may be appropriate under C2C. If both spellings exist as otherwise-identical category names, they should be merged.
- Appropriate conversion of hyphens into en dashes or vice versa (e.g. Category:Canada-Russia relations → Category:Canada–Russia relations).
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- C2B. Enforcing established Wikipedia naming conventions and practices.
- Expanding abbreviated country names (e.g. U.S. → United States).
- Disambiguation fixes from an unqualified name (e.g. Category:Washington → Category:Washington (state) or Category:Washington, D.C.).
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- C2C. Bringing a category into line with established naming conventions for that category tree, or into line with the various "x by y", "x of y", or "x in y" categorization conventions specified at Wikipedia:Category names.
- This should be used only where there is no room for doubt that the category in question is being used for the standard purpose instead of being a potential subcategory.
- This criterion should be applied only when there is no ambiguity or doubt over the existence of a category naming convention. Such a convention must be well defined and must be overwhelmingly used within the tree. If this is not the case then the category in question must be brought forward to a full Cfd nomination.
- This criterion will not apply in cases where the category tree observes distinctions in local usage (e.g. Category:Transportation in the United States and Category:Transport in the United Kingdom).
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- C2D. Facilitating concordance between a particular category's name and a related article's name.
- Renaming a topic category to match its eponymous article (e.g. Category:The Beatles and The Beatles).
- This applies only if the related article's current name (and by extension, the proposed name for the category) is unambiguous, and uncontroversial – either because of longstanding stability at that particular name or immediately following a page move discussion that had explicit consensus to rename. If the page names are controversial or ambiguous in any way, then this criterion does not apply.
- This criterion also does not apply if there is any ongoing discussion about the name of the page or category, or if there has been a recent discussion concerning any of the pages that resulted in a no consensus result.
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- C2E. Author request.
- This criterion applies only if the author of a category requests or agrees to renaming within six months of creating the category.
- The criterion does not apply if other editors have populated or changed the category since it was created. "Other editors" includes bots that populated the category, but excludes an editor working with the author on the renaming.
- A nomination to merge or rename, brought forward as a full CfD, may be speedily closed if the closing administrator is satisfied that:
- The nomination clearly falls within the scope of one of the criteria listed here,
- And no objections have been made within 48 hours of the initial nomination.
- If both these conditions are satisfied, the closure will be regarded as having been as a result of a speedy nomination. If any objections have been raised then the CfD nomination will remain in place for the usual 7-day discussion period, to be decided in accordance with expressed consensus.
Add requests for speedy renaming and merging here[edit]
If the category and desired change do not match one of the criteria mentioned in C2, do not list it here. Instead, list it in the main CFD section.
If you are in any doubt as to whether it qualifies, do not list it here.
Use the following format on a new line at the beginning of the list:
* [[:Category:{old name here}]] to [[:Category:{new name here}]] – {reason for rename here} ~~~~
This will sign and datestamp an entry automatically.
Remember to tag the category with: {{subst:Cfr-speedy|New name}}
A request may be completed if it is more than 48 hours old; that is, if the time stamp shown is earlier than 03:52, 7 September 2016 (UTC). Currently, there are 94 open requests (. )
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Do not use the "Move" tab to move categories listed here! Categories are processed following the 48-hour discussion period and are moved by a bot. |
Current nominations[edit]
- Category:Burmese Hakka people to Category:Burmese people of Hakka descent – consistency Prisencolin (talk) 01:19, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Canadian Hakka people to Category:Canadian people of Hakka descent – consistency Prisencolin (talk) 01:18, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Indonesian Hakka people to Category:Indonesian people of Hakka descent – consistency Prisencolin (talk) 01:17, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Graneries to Category:Granaries – Misspelling ShadowDragon343 (talk) 18:23, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Delaware soccer teams to Category:Delaware soccer clubs – C2C: Per equivalent categories for other U.S states, nearly all use "clubs", not "teams". Armbrust The Homunculus 13:59, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Compositions by Juan Maria Solare to Category:Compositions by Juan María Solare – C2B: per Juan María Solare. Armbrust The Homunculus 13:55, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Arabian musical instruments to Category:Arabic musical instruments – C2D: Per Arabic musical instruments. Oculi (talk) 13:44, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Arabian music to Category:Arabic music – C2D: Per Arabic music and cfd. Oculi (talk) 13:36, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:112 (R&B group) members to Category:112 (band) members – C2D: Per 112 (band), Category:112 (band) songs, and Category:112 (band) albums. — ξxplicit 04:39, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Soccer teams in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to Category:Soccer clubs in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania – C2C: Regardless of how the discussion of Pittsburgh-related categories works out, this category should use "Soccer clubs", not "Soccer teams", per nearly all other categories about such teams. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 18:22, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:North Carolina soccer teams to Category:North Carolina soccer clubs – C2C: Per most of the categories about these teams, which generally use "clubs". עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 18:21, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Pennsylvania soccer teams to Category:Pennsylvania soccer clubs – C2C: Per equivilent categories for other U.S states, nearly all use "clubs", not "teams". עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 18:08, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Anglo-Egyptian War (1882) to Category:Anglo-Egyptian War – C2C per Anglo-Egyptian War. HandsomeFella (talk) 11:01, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:People of the Anglo-Egyptian War (1882) to Category:People of the Anglo-Egyptian War
- Category:Military personnel of the Anglo-Egyptian War (1882) to Category:Military personnel of the Anglo-Egyptian War
- Category:British military personnel of the 1882 Anglo-Egyptian War to Category:British military personnel of the Anglo-Egyptian War
- Category:British Army personnel of the 1882 Anglo-Egyptian War to Category:British Army personnel of the Anglo-Egyptian War
- Category:Royal Navy personnel of the 1882 Anglo-Egyptian War to Category:Royal Navy personnel of the Anglo-Egyptian War
- Category:1882 Anglo-Egyptian War chaplains to Category:Anglo-Egyptian War chaplains
- Category:Cold War Soviet Intelligence films to Category:Cold War Soviet intelligence films – C2A, decaps. Brandmeistertalk 08:56, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Maximilien de Robespierre to Category:Maximilien Robespierre – C2D per Maximilien Robespierre Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:58, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Works about Maximilien de Robespierre to Category:Works about Maximilien Robespierre
- Category:Biographical films about Maximilien de Robespierre to Category:Biographical films about Maximilien Robespierre
- Category:Documentary films about Maximilien de Robespierre to Category:Documentary films about Maximilien Robespierre
- Category:Burials at St. Mary's Roman Catholic Cemetery, Kensal Green to Category:Burials at St Mary's Catholic Cemetery, Kensal Green – Actual name according to its own website. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:58, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
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- And St Mary's Catholic Cemetery, Kensal Green. Oculi (talk) 00:43, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Awards of Uruguay to Category:Uruguayan awards – merge C2C per Category:Awards by country. Tassedethe (talk) 23:47, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Awards and Decorations of the Civil Air Patrol to Category:Awards and decorations of the Civil Air Patrol – C2A caps. Tassedethe (talk) 23:43, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Former churches of Russia to Category:Former churches in Russia per C2C Hugo999 (talk) 22:05, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Automated Test Equipment to Category:Automatic test equipment – C2A, caps per Automatic test equipment. Brandmeistertalk 14:54, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- @Brandmeister: Comment That should be renamed to Category:Automatic test equipment as C2D per Automatic test equipment. Armbrust The Homunculus 15:16, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Typo, thanks. Brandmeistertalk 16:07, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- @Brandmeister: Comment That should be renamed to Category:Automatic test equipment as C2D per Automatic test equipment. Armbrust The Homunculus 15:16, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Bali United to Category:Bali United F.C. – C2D: per Bali United F.C.. Armbrust The Homunculus 14:00, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Indian Detective films to Category:Indian detective films – C2A: Capitalisation Kailash29792 (talk) 13:02, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:A.S.D. Manfredonia Calcio 1932 to Category:Manfredonia Calcio – C2D Following the name change of the Wikipedia article: Manfredonia Calcio
LazyJob (talk)(matthew_hk alternative cleanup only account) 05:43, 5 September 2016 (UTC)- Category:A.S.D. Manfredonia Calcio 1932 managers to Category:Manfredonia Calcio managers
- Category:A.S.D. Manfredonia Calcio 1932 players to Category:Manfredonia Calcio players
- Oppose speedy Main article only recently moved, and without discussion... thus C2D isn't applicable. Armbrust The Homunculus 14:08, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- The club NEVER called "A.S.D. Manfredonia Calcio 1932" but "A.S.D. Manfredonia Calcio", or historically "S.S. Manfredonia Calcio", according to news, register in Italian Chamber of Commerce, the club re-incorporated as a "Manfredonia Calcio S.r.l.s.d.". According to common name and new official site of the club, the club was just known as Manfredonia Calcio. So it is quite uncontroversial to move to "Manfredonia Calcio" for the article namespace. Matthew_hk tc 15:25, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Doesn't matter. C2D is clear about this "This applies only if the related article's current name [...] is unambiguous, and uncontroversial – either because of longstanding stability at that particular name or immediately following a page move discussion that had explicit consensus to rename." Armbrust The Homunculus 16:34, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- The club NEVER called "A.S.D. Manfredonia Calcio 1932" but "A.S.D. Manfredonia Calcio", or historically "S.S. Manfredonia Calcio", according to news, register in Italian Chamber of Commerce, the club re-incorporated as a "Manfredonia Calcio S.r.l.s.d.". According to common name and new official site of the club, the club was just known as Manfredonia Calcio. So it is quite uncontroversial to move to "Manfredonia Calcio" for the article namespace. Matthew_hk tc 15:25, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose speedy Main article only recently moved, and without discussion... thus C2D isn't applicable. Armbrust The Homunculus 14:08, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:San Francisco Fog players to Category:San Francisco Fog (MISL) players – C2D: San Francisco Fog (MISL). Struway2 (talk) 10:24, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Nea Salamina Famagusta FC managers to Category:Nea Salamis Famagusta FC managers – C2D: Nea Salamis Famagusta FC. Struway2 (talk) 08:59, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Compositions by Don Davis to Category:Compositions by Don Davis (composer) – C2D: Don Davis (composer). Trivialist (talk) 12:28, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
Opposed nominations[edit]
- Category:Olympic medalists for Canada to Category:Olympic medallists for Canada – C2A WP:ENGVAR Use Canadian English and not US English for a Canadian topic -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 22:50, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Olympic bronze medalists for Canada to Category:Olympic bronze medallists for Canada – C2A ENGVAR Canadian English -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 22:50, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Olympic silver medalists for Canada to Category:Olympic silver medallists for Canada – C2A ENGVAR Canadian English -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 22:50, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Olympic gold medalists for Canada to Category:Olympic gold medallists for Canada – C2A ENGVAR Canadian English -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 22:50, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Canadian Olympic medalist stubs to Category:Canadian Olympic medallist stubs – C2A ENGVAR Canadian English -- The associated stub template {{Canada-Olympic-medalist-stub}} also needs to be moved to {{Canada-Olympic-medallist-stub}} -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 22:50, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Canadian Winter Olympic medalist stubs to Category:Canadian Winter Olympic medallist stubs – C2A ENGVAR Canadian English -- The associated stub template {{Canada-Winter-Olympic-medalist-stub}} also needs to be moved to {{Canada-Winter-Olympic-medallist-stub}} -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 22:50, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
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- Comment Is this necessary? I'm not Canadian, but I've been under the impression that Canadians use both spellings. All other categories except for GB use one L. -- Tavix (talk) 19:00, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
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- One "L" is improper English and gets you big red circles in English class. Why should we use US English when it is a Canadian category? If you use an automated spellcheck and either it doesn't have a Canadian setting or you don't set it for Canadian, it will likely default to American, resulting in single-L uses. As well, people on the Internet use bad spellings. So, if we want to only use U.S. English, then use one-L. If we want to allow people to use the native English spellings then use two-L's; If the British categories are allowed to use two-L's then the Canadian ones should be allowed to use Canadian English and use two-L's. -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 09:28, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
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- I think User:Tavix might be suggesting that spelling the word with two Ls or with one L are both acceptable in Canadian English. That's certainly been my experience. Good Ol’factory (talk) 09:48, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
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- If it isn't accepted by an English teacher for Canadian English, then we shouldn't use it for category names. It's acceptable to use many incorrect spelling in many different locations. I see people spell things "big fish" (instead of whale), "banana" (instead of plantain), "tyre" (instead of tire), "football" (instead of soccer), "honor" (instead of honour) ; and people accept the spelling without being overly excited about it, but it doesn't mean it's proper Canadian English. If we want to standardize on American English, we should do it for British categories as well. -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 03:24, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
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- Who is this "English teacher for Canadian English" you speak of? I was educated in Canada, and I think either spelling would be accepted by most English teachers there. The ones who wouldn't be those who have a particular "thing" for rejecting U.S. English, but in practical terms, Canadian English is often a mix of U.S. and British English and often either forms of spelling are acceptable. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:14, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
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- Several of my English teacher friends mark that way. "LL""L" Canadian News results shows a 3:1 preference for the double-L spelling, showing the preferred form in Canadian English. And it isn't British or American, it's Canadian, why should we use either American or British as the choices, instead of just using Canadian? ("honour"(Canada) not "honor"(US); "civilization"(Canada) not "civilisation"(UK);) -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 23:39, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
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- Mostly because there is no universally recognized thing called "Canadian English". It is a mis-mash to U.S. English and British English, and the standards are applied inconsistently and variably depending on where in Canada one chooses to assesses the language. Nova Scotia English is considerably different than Alberta English, and Ontario English is different still. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:05, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
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- By that standard, there's no such thing as British English or American English, since Cockney is different from that of The North; or Ebonics is not the same as Southern, etc -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 04:27, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
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- Well, not exactly. There has been far more work towards establishing a "standard" British English and a "standard" American English than there has been for Canadian English. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:59, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- I'll go ahead and officially oppose this then. There's no need to deviate from the spelling used for the rest of categories. I noted Great Britain is an exception, but unlike Canada, they don't use both spellings. -- Tavix (talk) 16:05, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose. Where either variant is acceptable, there is no reason to break consistency. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:31, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose. I'm a speaker of Canadian English, and one-l vs. two-ll in a word like "medal(l)ist" or "travel(l)er" is one of those things I and many other Canadians are entirely incapable of even keeping straight which one's the "American" spelling and which one's the "British/Canadian" one. There are certainly some "Canadian spellings" that are straightforward and easy to remember — cheque and centre over check or center, but tire and curb over tyre or kerb — but there are also many others where it's hard to keep track of which variant is the officially correct Canadian English form, and this is one of them. Nominator is welcome to take it to a full CFR if he feels strongly about it, but it's not appropriate for speedy. I would suggest, however, that the two-ll forms should be created as categoryredirects to the one-l, or the one-l forms kept as categoryredirects to the two-ll if CFR closes as a move, because there's clearly some dispute. Bearcat (talk) 16:20, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
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- Category:Palestine Emergency to Category:Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine – C2D per Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine Good Ol’factory (talk) 09:12, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
- Category:British military personnel of the Palestine Emergency to Category:British military personnel of the Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine
- @Good Olfactory: I'm not sure this would be an improvement. The main article Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine begins "Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine involved paramilitary actions carried out by Jewish underground groups against the British forces and officials in Mandatory Palestine between 1939 and 1948." So it does not seem accurate to refer to "the Jewish insurgency" as an event; perhaps "the period of Jewish insurgency"? Meanwhile, the term "Palestine Emergency" is used elsewhere for this period, in United Kingdom casualties of war (dates stated as 1945–48) and
List of friendly fire incidents#Palestine Emergency (1944-47)List of friendly fire incidents#Palestine Emergency (1945-48). Perhaps the most specific term would follow the section Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine#The Jewish Resistance Movement and after, 1945–47. However, "British military personnel of the Jewish Resistance Movement" or the nomination "British military personnel of the Jewish insurgency" might imply involvement in or support for the Movement/insurgency. I'd be inclined to just add dates at the end of the existing name. – Fayenatic London 15:50, 21 June 2016 (UTC) - Oppose these two, not uncontroversial. – Fayenatic London 23:18, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
- Moved the first one to a full discussion. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:54, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Good Olfactory: I'm not sure this would be an improvement. The main article Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine begins "Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine involved paramilitary actions carried out by Jewish underground groups against the British forces and officials in Mandatory Palestine between 1939 and 1948." So it does not seem accurate to refer to "the Jewish insurgency" as an event; perhaps "the period of Jewish insurgency"? Meanwhile, the term "Palestine Emergency" is used elsewhere for this period, in United Kingdom casualties of war (dates stated as 1945–48) and
- Category:British military personnel of the Palestine Emergency to Category:British military personnel of the Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine
On hold pending other discussion[edit]
- Category:Historians from the Republic of Venice to Category:Republic of Venice historians – C2C in Category:Republic of Venice people. Although the revised name could be taken as ambiguous, it follows the others in Category:Historians by nationality. – Fayenatic London 07:03, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Explorers from the Republic of Venice to Category:Republic of Venice explorers
- Oppose, because of the ambiguity already discussed at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 November 14. Sionk (talk) 17:51, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ah, well spotted. Wouldn't the same arguments apply to all of Category:Historians by nationality and Category:Explorers by nationality? Mass nomination, anyone? – Fayenatic London 17:36, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Fayenatic london: Good point. I agree the same arguments would apply to all of these, and am preparing a mass nomination for the smaller one, Category:Explorers by nationality. Cheers, PanchoS (talk) 23:25, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
- I can't really see how the same argument applies generally to Category: Italian explorers, Category: French historians etc. The earlier debate arose because there is no descriptive adjective for people from the Republic of Venice. Sionk (talk) 12:24, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
- Maybe it's unnecessary in Europe, but the category names in Europe should follow those required for places that were explored (OK, by Europeans, we know...)
- Anyway, this speedy nomination for Explorers will not be C2C if the rest are renamed the other way at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_June_18#Category:Explorers_by_nationality. Historians should probably follow. – Fayenatic London 12:36, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
- I can't really see how the same argument applies generally to Category: Italian explorers, Category: French historians etc. The earlier debate arose because there is no descriptive adjective for people from the Republic of Venice. Sionk (talk) 12:24, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Fayenatic london: Good point. I agree the same arguments would apply to all of these, and am preparing a mass nomination for the smaller one, Category:Explorers by nationality. Cheers, PanchoS (talk) 23:25, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
- Ah, well spotted. Wouldn't the same arguments apply to all of Category:Historians by nationality and Category:Explorers by nationality? Mass nomination, anyone? – Fayenatic London 17:36, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
- @Sionk: As there was a strong consensus at that CfD to keep the existing convention for Fooian explorers, the proposal here is C2C after all; so do you withdraw your opposition, at least for the explorers category? – Fayenatic London 17:18, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
- Why would I do that? The category has already been renamed following a CfD. These are explorers/historians from the Republic of Venice, not of the Republic of Venice. Unlike many other nationalities, there is no adjective to describe people from the Republic of Venice. It's pointless blndly following convention when there is no 'one size that fits all'. Sionk (talk) 17:30, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Sionk: Because the parent is Category:Republic of Venice people, which contains many more occupations named like that. The point of the 2014 CfD was to insert "Republic of" in place of Venetian. By the consensus of the latest CfD, which rejected using "from" in all other cases, the 2014 participants worried too much when they put the location at the end of the name instead of the beginning to avoid ambiguity. – Fayenatic London 19:13, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
- We could just renominate it for a full discussion. I supported the previous renaming, but in light of the more recent outcome, I would be happy to support changing it back. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:02, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Fayenatic london: As you can see the previous CfD discussion for historians and explorers (separate from all other professions) was raised to avoid ambiguity in these two specific categories. As was raised in the other Cfd, New Zealand suffers the same issues (there's no adjective 'Newzealandish'). Well, if the consensus is to restore this confusing ambiguity then so be it, I don't have the time or inclination to spend more time on these daft 'one size fits all' arguments. Sionk (talk) 18:58, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Sionk: Category definitions can be used to resolve any ambiguity that exists for a category based on its name if the ambiguity results from the name conforming to a convention. A sizable portion of category names are not 100% unambiguous, so this is not a new problem. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:46, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
- Who reads category definitions before adding a category? No one. A simple and practical solution would be to name categories so they are unambigious, rather than a rigid "This category was named that way, so all similar categories must follow regardless". Sionk (talk) 22:34, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Sionk: We have no way of knowing one way or the other the percentage of readers that read category headers, so I'm not sure how you are so sure that "no one" does. (I, for one, do read them when they are there – so your (perhaps exaggerrated?) opinion can't be correct.) Anyways, thinking more broadly, categories cannot always be 100% unambiguous, so the solution you propose is neither simple nor practical in many circumstances. Thinking of the category scheme as a whole, I think it makes more sense (and would generally be more helpful) to bring as much predictability and standardization as possible to the system, and then issues of relatively minor ambiguity could be dealt with through category definitions. It has the added beauty of being generally in line with current and historical practice on Wikipedia. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:09, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- Who reads category definitions before adding a category? No one. A simple and practical solution would be to name categories so they are unambigious, rather than a rigid "This category was named that way, so all similar categories must follow regardless". Sionk (talk) 22:34, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Sionk: Category definitions can be used to resolve any ambiguity that exists for a category based on its name if the ambiguity results from the name conforming to a convention. A sizable portion of category names are not 100% unambiguous, so this is not a new problem. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:46, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Sionk: Because the parent is Category:Republic of Venice people, which contains many more occupations named like that. The point of the 2014 CfD was to insert "Republic of" in place of Venetian. By the consensus of the latest CfD, which rejected using "from" in all other cases, the 2014 participants worried too much when they put the location at the end of the name instead of the beginning to avoid ambiguity. – Fayenatic London 19:13, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
- Why would I do that? The category has already been renamed following a CfD. These are explorers/historians from the Republic of Venice, not of the Republic of Venice. Unlike many other nationalities, there is no adjective to describe people from the Republic of Venice. It's pointless blndly following convention when there is no 'one size that fits all'. Sionk (talk) 17:30, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose, because of the ambiguity already discussed at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 November 14. Sionk (talk) 17:51, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Explorers from the Republic of Venice to Category:Republic of Venice explorers
Moved to full discussion[edit]
- Category:Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools (Hong Kong) to Category:De La Salle Brothers schools (Hong Kong) – C2D: per head article De La Salle Brothers, renamed per WP:RM discussion at Talk:De La Salle_Brothers#Requested_move_21_August_2016. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:45, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose as proposed This should be renamed to Category:De La Salle Brothers (Hong Kong). (Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools = De La Salle Brothers) Armbrust The Homunculus 20:28, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
- @Armbrust: Good catch. It is a subcat of both Category:Educational organisations in Hong Kong and Category:Roman Catholic secondary schools in Hong Kong, so I thought it was a category of schools. That is why I had included the word "schools" in lower case.
However I now see that it includes one biography, of Brigant Cassian. So what to do? Rename as I propose, and remove Brigant Cassian? Or rename as you propose and remove two parents categories? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:51, 3 September 2016 (UTC)- I don't mind removing Brigant Cassian, as that article is already in Category:La Salle College. However, now I think Category:De La Salle Brothers schools in Hong Kong would be the best title. Armbrust The Homunculus 13:48, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
- @Armbrust: Good catch. It is a subcat of both Category:Educational organisations in Hong Kong and Category:Roman Catholic secondary schools in Hong Kong, so I thought it was a category of schools. That is why I had included the word "schools" in lower case.
- Alternative suggestion Why not name in accordance with Category:De La Salle Brothers in the Philippines and rename to Category:De La Salle Brothers in Hong Kong? Gjs238 (talk) 23:21, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
- @Gjs238: that's more elegant than the parenthetical format, but it doesn't resolve the issue of whether this should be a category of schools. I await Armbrust's reply to my question above, but I think that this rename may be raising too many issues to be a legitimate speedy. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:03, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
- But Category:De La Salle Brothers in the Philippines doesn't contain any articles about school, only biographies. Armbrust The Homunculus 13:48, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
- I see Category:De La Salle Brothers in the Philippines as a category about the congregation in the Philippines. School is one aspect of the congregation. Gjs238 (talk) 14:26, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
- Moved to full discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 September 5#Category:Institute_of_the_Brothers_of_the_Christian_Schools_.28Hong_Kong.29. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:00, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- Oppose as proposed This should be renamed to Category:De La Salle Brothers (Hong Kong). (Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools = De La Salle Brothers) Armbrust The Homunculus 20:28, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
- Category:Irish Ombudsman to Category:Ombudsman (Ireland) – C2D: per Ombudsman (Ireland) Tim! (talk) 19:35, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
-
- Oppose Shouldn't it be Category:Ombudsmen (Ireland)? Pppery (talk) 22:10, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
-
- Listed at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_July_19#Category:Irish_Ombudsman. Tim! (talk) 19:49, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Ready for deletion[edit]
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