How about this for a great night out ruined by PTV. This was sent to me by a person who has only recently returned from Sydney and hit awful strife trying to use Melbourne’s train system. It was supposed to be a good night out, but turned into Nightmare on Public Transport. I have removed all identifying details:
My husband … and I decided on the night of Monday 20th July 2015 to catch public transport into the city where we held tickets to a concert. We have been living in NSW for the past 5 ½ years and this was to be our first excursion on the train since arriving back from Sydney.
In preparation for the trip, that afternoon, [my husband] looked up the Public Transport Victoria website (http://ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/myki/) to make sure we could indeed purchase a Myki card each at our local train station … With the information from the website we felt confident that it would not be a problem to do so and we walked up from our home to the station. …
At the … station, platform 1, we split off onto a Myki ticket machine each. We both found it hard to work out how to buy a Myki card and I ended up walking over to the machine [my husband] was at (terminal ID 091200214) where we both tried again to work out the system without success. (This machine was later discovered to be faulty, as admitted to me during a phone conversation on 10th August 2015 at 1:34pm.)
Feeling confused and defeated by the system, we walked out of the … station in search of a taxi. Not 20 meters from the station, we turned to one another and said (in regards to the ticket machines)’it can’t be that hard’, and we headed back up to the station to try again. Our movements would be clearly visible on the … station’s CCTV surveillance footage. My husband requested the CCTV footage along with the transaction list/report from the offending machine …
At approximately 6:15pm, we both went back to the same machine (terminal ID 091200214). We clicked through the options to buy a Myki card, the machine asked for money and we put in a $20.00 cash note. The machine took the money and issued us with a receipt for the $20.00 but did not issue a Myki card. We checked to see if a Myki card had been dispensed from the machine and it had not and there was no staff at the … Station to assist us. At this time, the train arrived and we boarded the train thinking that the receipt would be sufficient evidence to prove we had tried to buy the tickets and that we would be able to reconcile the transaction at Flinders Street Station. Please note that we took the receipt that came out of the machine after our transaction was completed, no other receipt. We did not try to purchase a second Myki card due to our problems in trying to purchase the first one. …
Almost as soon as we sat down on the train, we heard the voice of one of the PT officers asking for passengers to show their Myki cards. I immediately thought’thank goodness, we’ll be able to tell them what happened and they will be able to explain what we can do from here’.
Unfortuantely, it is not the way the interaction with the officers went. We explained to Officer 2139 [name] and Officer 2135 [name] what had happened and from the outset 2139 was very hostile toward us. After explaining the problem we had with the ticket machine Officer 2139 told us that he hears a lot of’stories’ and has a very low tolerance for such things. His manner was very accusatory and we felt like we were being treated like criminals. He asked to see the ticket machine receipt that the machine had created for our transaction. This was the first time we noticed that the receipt had the correct transaction amount ($20.00), but the incorrect payment type and time of transaction was wrong too. We paid in cash and the receipt said we used a MasterCard; it also had the incorrect time on it. Officer 2139 further accused us of carrying the wrong receipt and was inferring that we were lying about our transaction and that we had simply picked up a receipt from the machine that another passenger had left behind. He basically told us we were lying and he did not believe us.
I started to get a bit emotional and explained that we were not trying to do the wrong thing, in fact quite the opposite. We were trying to do the right thing by researching how to buy a Myki card on the website before leaving home and by consciously trying to purchase 2 Myki cards at the station. [Both officers] said they needed to write a report on the incident. We asked whether this meant that we were going to be issued with infringement notices, and they said that it was out of their hands once the report was handed in. Officer 2139 then said that we could either wait and see if an infringement notice arrived in the mail or we could pay an on the spot fine of $75.00 each there and then. He was using this as an obvious threat. (ie:’You either pay now, or pay later’). Officer 2139 was essentially using bullying behaviour and stand over tactics to intimidate us.
At this stage I said to Officer 2139,’Regardless of what is happening here, I do not appreciate your tone or the way you are speaking to us. It is very accusatory and offensive’. [Both officers] had by this time finished writing their reports. Officer 2139 turned on his heel and walked off, muttering to himself. …
I turned to Officer 2135 and stated that I was not happy with how we had been treated by Officer 2139 . Officer 2135 apologised for Officer 2139’s rudeness’ (her words) and told me to appeal the infringement if/when it arrived. Officer 2135 then pointed out the 1800 number for complaints and implied that I should call the number.
At Flinders Street station I called 1800 800 007 at 6:35pm and spoke with Andrew to explain what had just happened with the ticket machine and with Officer 2139’s inappropriate behaviour toward my husband and I. I spoke with him for 12 minutes and he gave me a call …
The next day, Tuesday 21st July, I rang the same 1800 number and spoke with Subra for a further 23 minutes at 2:12pm. This second call was to add further detail to my complaint about the incident and Officer 2139’s behaviour on the night before. A few times, Subra tried to tell me that we picked up the wrong receipt from the machine. I said we definitely didn’t. He then said he would ensure we got a refund (his exact words) for the $20.00 spent at ticket machine 214 and gave me a further case number of #…
I received a phone call (from caller ID – 03 8363 4000) on Monday 10th August at 1:34pm. I was surprised to receive a phone call about the matter because I had requested correspondence to be via email. As I was out, I did not get a chance to take down the caller’s name. The lady told me that the machine 214 (terminal ID 091200214) was indeed found to be faulty and that we would be receiving a refund for the $20.00 we put into the Myki machine. She asked if we had since bought another Myki card that she could have the refund credited to. I said we had not used the public transport system since and therefore still do not have a Myki Card. Due to this she asked for our home address and said to expect a cheque in the mail for the $20.00 in the next 14 days. …
On Thursday 20th August, I was then shocked to receive an email from [name] …. stating that after a comprehensive investigation they have found that a Myki card had indeed been dispensed from the machine around the time of our incident and therefore we would not be issued with a refund. To date, we have not been provided with any evidence to prove the machine was not faulty. It is not a very ’just’ system when [my husband] and I have to prove every movement and event during the time in question, yet PTV essentially asks us to take their word that the machine is not faulty with no evidence to support their claim.
After receiving the email, I once again called 1800 800 007 on Thurs 20th August at 1:42pm, this time speaking with Michelle. … I explained what had happened and she seemed to have all of the information at her disposal already, which I was pleased about. I asked her why were we told to expect a refund cheque in the mail if the decision was going to be overturned 10 days later? Wouldn’t it seem more reasonable to finalise the investigation before promising a refund? [my husband] and I are not happy with the resolution of this matter, and so Michelle opened another case file to investigate further (Ref: 032512_340). It is not fair that a decision can be flip flopped in this way, not to mention terribly unprofessional and unreasonable.
[My husband] and I both work freelance jobs and carry around lots of professional gear. This means we drive our cars to our jobs etc. Neither of us has caught the train in Victoria for over 8 years. Although we are not familiar with the PTV systems, we are law-abiding citizens and were really trying to do the right thing. And as it now stands we have been slugged with a combined penalty amount of $446.00 for one train trip.
In conclusion, [my husband] and I work very hard whilst raising our 2 ½ year old daughter. We do not get to go out on ’dates’ together very often due to our hectic family and work schedules. We had planned the evening down to a ’T’, with a babysitter, a train ride and a concert. It was to be a special night to celebrate our move to Melbourne with a very ’Melbourne’ night out. Unfortunately, the public transport system let us down due to a faulty ticket machine, not to mention an overly complex and sub-standard ticketing system. And due to that we were humiliated and bullied in front of a packed train by a very rude and accusatory staff member, Officer 2139, and left feeling very angry and upset for the rest of the evening. It seems that PT Victoria would prefer their passengers to feel guilty until proven innocent instead of the other way around. The incompetent Myki system combined with the surrounding bureaucracy has cost us many hours of our time. …
My 18 year old son, was picked up using a concession Myki without having his concession card. He admitted he was wrong, was asked did he want an ‘on the spot fine’ and thinking he needed to pay immediately, said ‘no’. He was then sent a $220 fine, which he challenged but was told,’yes an on the spot fine is one to which you pay upfront’.
Is this right?
He knows he should have carried his concession ID but our concern is the confusion over what is an on the spot fine.
Thank you
Hi Cindy,
Have you paid the fine yet? There is an option on the form to send PTV a copy of your valid concession card, and if he is a first time offender, they waive the fine (this has happened to me before). Yes the option to pay ‘on-the-spot’ is what you pay to the officers who catch you, that’s the $75 option. Although if you pay on-the-spot/upfront, you are unable to appeal the fine.
Hope that’s helpful!
Typical lazy stinking ptv. And if you complain NOTHING HAPPENS. And the ombudsman is a toothless joke. If it was ever going to change anything I would suggest taking it further unfortunately through bitter experience I know better. The ptv are not only hopeless at taking complaints they cannot even run a public transport system. For gods sake they can do it in Sydney and Brisbane and Perth. Why not here? Oh that’s right, Vic Roads pull all the strings
I worked for a state government for 15 years, attacking the bureaucrats from the inside. I now do the same from the private sector. Firstly, good on you guys! We need people to fight the machine. My advice is to not pay them, and don’t play their Game of Process. The government is designed around leading dissenters down an ever-narrowing alleyway of rules and process, with the objective of exhaustion and defeat. The way to win is change the rules and adopt guerrilla tactics. You’ve already started with your article. Write straight away to the Secretary/CEO of Transport in Victoria presenting your evidence. Give him/her 14 days to respond or you will write directly to the Minister. CE’s absolutely hate an issue getting on their Minister’s radar, as they spend 90% of their time managing up and creating the illusion of a well-run Department. Threatening to blow the lid on their scam almost always works first time. A CEO will do just about anything to keep their Minister in the dark, especially if they can make the issue go away simply by paying out some taxpayers money. So, be really clear what you want in order to go away. Don’t forget compensation for your time. Good luck!
The Victorian government hardly needs to complain about Border Force. It has its own goon squad on PTV. And who are these public officers serving (they are paid by the government, remember)? They serve the financial interests of foreign owned companies (one of them the state owned rail of France, SNCF). And with today’s strike, the minister is cranky with the unions, not the companies that employ them. And the head of PTV, Mark Wild, can’t say if there will be compensation for holders of weekly, monthly, and yearly myki passes. As they say in the classics, What a way to run a railroad!
I suggest a day of action.
I correct the bit about the officers being public employees. They are employed by the transport companies and authorised by PTV. So, these companies are vicariously liable for the actions of their officers, are they not? Their deplorable actions are sanctioned by the government, one could conclude.
I have a question about recent fines I have witnessed: what are the rules around negative myki balances? I just saw an upset woman get off the 75 tram because after not touching off the tram yesterday (which I have been informed several times is not required when travelling on trams) she touched on today and a negative balance was displayed. However, the machine allowed her to touch on- she didn’t get that warning beep that the ticket was not valid. It was my belief that you could travel on a negative balance if it was the first time it had gone from positive to negative but would have to top up for your next journey. The officers told her she should have touched off at the end of her final journey the day previous. This is confusing and seems to conflict with advice on touching off. The same thing happened to my colleague last week. What are the rules? The system is very unclear!
1. As I am significantly disabled and the PTV’s ticketing system is unusable with my disabilities, they give me free travel rather then have me take them to court for the discrimination they support.
2. I see other people with age and other difficulties who are also unable to use the PTV’s ticketing system but, as they are without my specific disabilities they are forced to pay for the PTV discrimination.
3. While receiving medical treatment multiple times per week for several months, I spent many hours traveling via public transport for appointments.
4. During these journeys, I witnessed many inspections by AO’s.
5. Depending upon the wealth of the people being inspected, the AO’s actions were completely different.
6. While traveling through Hawthorn, one traveller who did not have a valid ticket just handed the AO his credit card, without comment, to pay the $75, while another traveller was prompted for her card before doing the same.
7. Traveling in StKilda was vastly different, with no mention of the $75 option being made at all, and the emphasis directed towards verifying ID and address details.
8. At Flinder Street Station, the AO’s can be seen lined up outside the barricades, waiting for any elderly, disabled, poor, or plain clothed student, to attempt to use their concession ticket, which lights up differently on the barricade, before interrogating them for proof of their concession status.
9. The outrage is the inequality of treatment the AO’s are authorised to inflict, with the rich offender paying the $75 and walking away without any record, while without the $75 payment the details are recorded and checked before sending a bill for triple the amount, $223.
10. Surely the action of demanding equivalent “on the spot” fines from a disabled pensioner and an able bodied worker with a salary, must be considered disability discrimination?
11. As a proportion of income, or depending on the day in the pay cycle, the proportion of disabled pensioners who are unable to make the $75 “on the spot” payment is higher then for the general population, and as such, the PTV’s fines are discriminatory.
12. Given the PTV are already guilty of discriminating against me through the use of the PTV’s ticketing scheme, and given that I have free travel in Victoria, the only way I could bring this injustice to the notice of the Government and the courts was to be incorrectly charged with Fare Evasion and protest until the case went to court.