This has been such a disturbing experience.
Recently, I wrote an article critical of Centrelink’s debt collection processes based on my personal experiences. That article is here. It was written with the intention of drawing people’s attention to how impenetrable the debt collection process can be and also, to encourage women to consider fighting against ‘sexually transmitted debt’.
Paul Malone, writing for Canberra Times, has since obtained personal information from my Centrelink file (I’m still not sure how privacy legislation allows this) in order to write an article about my story from the government’s perspective. The article is optimistically titled, “Centrelink is an easy target for complaints but there are two sides to every story”.
It seems the story most neglected is not the helpless ‘client’ of Centrelink, so often powerless in the face of an enormous bureaucratic machine, but the Centrelink machine, itself.
I am incredibly reluctant to go further into my personal details but here we are.
Among the problems I have with Malone’s article:
The agency says Ms Fox’s debt is a Family Tax Benefit (FTB) debt for the 2011-12 financial year which arose after she received more FTB than she was entitled to because she under-estimated her family income for that year.
As I outlined in my article, when your ex does not lodge his tax return for a year in which you received the Family Tax Benefit it seems your family income will be classified ‘under-estimated’, and consequently, you, who filed a tax return may be required to pay the tax benefit back. My article drew attention to the ways in which this can penalise women.
The original debt was raised because she and her ex-partner did not lodge a tax return or confirm their income information for 2011-12.
My tax returns were up to date before I learned of a Centrelink debt and said tax returns noted my new status as a single parent.
Centrelink says that after Ms Fox notified the department that she had separated from her partner, the debt due to her partner’s non-lodgement was cancelled.
This feels somewhat disingenuous to me. The fine was finally cancelled by Centrelink after acknowledging that their previous decision to impose the debt on me had been a mistake. My notes indicate the process I had to go through took more than 12 months. That seems long to me, and arduous (it included insisting upon a review of my case) – it seems worthy of an article, which is why I wrote it.
But Centrelink general manager Hank Jongen says Centrelink made numerous attempts to get in touch with Ms Fox via phone and letter but many of these attempts were left unanswered.
During the process the department and I discovered they had old contact details for me. This has been a common story across many Centrelink debt stories with false debts escalating to debt collectors before people even realise they have a Centrelinke debt.
You would think a combination of my taking a day off work to visit Centrelink and following that, spending hours on the phone with Centrelink, would be evidence of a desire to both understand the debts and to resolve them. That I remain, to this day, confused about elements of both is a sign not of my disengagement but of a very complicated, demoralising and problem-ridden process.
However, I would also like to acknowledge the efforts of a couple of individual Centrelink staff members. Due to an editorial decision about word length their supportive comments were not included in my article. But I would note that they sounded almost as sad about the frustrations I was experiencing with Centrelink as I was, and in the end I couldn’t help but think we were all trapped in a kind of maddening maze.
Thank you, also, to the lawyers who came forward with suggestions after reading my article. All my love to those who work in this system and who wish for the system to work justly.
Something is going very, very wrong in government policy at the moment. But I am filled with hope because it has also brought out some very, very good people.
I am filled with rage at this.
Me too. This is completely outrageous and infuriating. I so so hope you get proper justice, recompense and a lot of apologies from the journalist and Centrestink.
I’m sick of hearing how cases only get dealt with properly when Hank Jongeren hears about it through the media.
What Centrelink has done to you is unforgivable. First the assault to claim cash from you that you never owed in the first place and now a direct and nasty punishment for speaking out! The assault on innocent people who DO NOT owe money is ongoing and very real. This is now everyone’s business as it is not only inhumane but unethical as well. I will now be making very sure that Treacherous Turnbull and his mob of Piggies in the Trough are ousted at the earliest opportunity. This is totally un-Australian!
I am very concerned about the whole process, both of chasing debt and of responding to criticism by personalising it and discussing your situation in (disengenous) detail.
I’m so glad you wrote the original article – it was needed. I am sorry this follow up was necessary,
That he obtained your file from centrelink should be the subject of a criminal investigation. This is apalling.
Please read what was said so you do not add further to the mess….. the jouralist was NOT given the Centrelink but info FROM it. Quite different.
Kerry
I disagree completely. Whether the journalist was given the entire file or information from her file it is a complete breach of privacy and it is never ever appropriate. It absolutely should be thoroughly investigated through every channel possible. We have the right to privacy and confidentiality in all our dealings and with everything being centralised now including medicare and health records together with ATO and Centrelink through the myGov site if there is no right of privacy and the gov’t is going to willy nilly hand out our private details when they feel they are being hard done by that is not a democracy.
Holy hell. This is ghastly, in all sorts of ways.
if she had informed the department she had separated from her partner in a timely way
As I read this bit, for a moment I thought that Centrelink was telling you that you should have separated from your partner at a time that suited them. A reading error on my part, but somehow it seemed to fit: people must make the messy reality of life fit Centrelink’s processes.
I am horrified that a journalist was able to obtain your private tax information and that he and the Times saw fit to publish the details. Every single step in that chain of events is screwed up.
I couldn’t agree with you more! It’s absolutely disgusting!
This is disgusting! I’m sorry your personal details have been made public as a way of discrediting your criticism of Centrelink’ processes.
Whoever the person was that breached Ms Fox’s privacy is liable for this security breach under privacy laws. No CLK staff can give out customer details. Lodge complaint with privacy officer- or shout out to Hank to investigate.
Non-lodger debts occur when a single or one or both members of a couple fail to lodge tax returns within 1 year after the end of the financial year. It is written on paperwork etc etc.
I’d bet my arse Hank was the one who gave her details out!
Doubt, he never gets his hands dirty. privacy@humanservices.gov.au or OAIC to notify of privacy breech.
“During the process the department and I discovered they had old contact details for me. ”
So you didn’t tell DHS that Your contact details had changed, and you’re outraged that you weren’t contacted about this matter??
Why would you update Centrelink (not DHS) if you are not on welfare anymore? I got payments as a student, got my degree and now work for the government. I got a letter to my address that I have since moved about 4 times – should I tell Centrelink every time I move for all of eternity? The reason I say Centrelink and not DHS is that they run Medicare. They have my current address via my Medicare details. Why would I update Centrelink as I haven’t had any payments from them for over 5 years? I also have a Mygov account (with correct details) that allegedly is the link between all government Departments talking to each other. Centrelink are idiots.
Yes. Yes…and Yes. You would think the merged centralisation of THEIR website and database would be enough. Apaprently not
Sounds like you haven’t had to deal with Centrelink much, “Entitlement culture”. It is VERY common to provide information to Centrelink and for it to be either entered incorrectly or into an apparently separate database from the one that they currently use.
Also, if a person stops using Centrelink because their financial circumstances have finally improved, it’s not surprising for them not to update their details when they move house. I certainly don’t want to deal with Centrelink ever again but suspect there’s probably a debt collection letter waiting for me somewhere in the future.
I have literally received a warning from Centrelink that I had not updated my address taht was… drum roll…. sent to my new address.
They should not be allowed to publish your personal information or give it away to be published.
RE: Privacy Breach, these guys seem to be the right place. However you can expect attempts at political interference. Maybe the privacy commissioner will tell the government “bite me”. https://www.oaic.gov.au/individuals/what-can-i-complain-about
The accusation that you earnt this bad experience by being less than perfect is such a demoralising neo liberal attack. Systems designed to serve real people should not be so rigid that they can’t cope with real people’s lives. Also – is it irony that the debt collectors contacted you but Centrelink apparently couldn’t?
Agreed. Pertinent points.Well expressed.
I am disgusted and appalled that a journalist was able to access private Centrelink-client details, but sadly, I am not surprised. This government has been vilifying and attacking welfare beneficiaries for years. I don’t think there is a level to which they will not stoop.
FFS There was no tax return done – I’d have to check, but not for 2011/12. Last one was possibly around 2010. Also they always knew where I lived, it’s ludicrous to say they didn’t. The ftb payout arrived, considering what he’d put me through & all I’d done & gone without, it really wasn’t very much. Not only has my privacy been breached, yet there has been so much purposeful disinformation about me, ongoing attacks, destruction to a life, it’s horrendous. I asked centrelink about this payment & they said it was correct for me to have it. Tbh was quite a mess at the time from all the abuse & a year of psychiatric drugging, was really finding it difficult to think properly. There’s been no debt collectors or centrelink contact. Because there is no debt after the way myself & everyone else has been treated at large.
Actually, the last tax return able to be lodged was further back than 2010 & was waiting on my exes to be lodged. Haven’t been able to do any since & seriously don’t trust any government institution with what’s going on now.
Thanks to those truly assisting. Though considering the falsifications in medical records, there’s probably the same in centrelink records & tax records also…
That sounds awful
I keep thinking “how can we stop this sort of thing” and adding any more bureaucrazy doesn’t seem like an option that would work. I keep coming back to the Universal Basic Income stuff – if everyone was just flat entitled to a certain level of payment, 90% of these stories would go away. And Australia is already really used to targeted payments, so “just” changing the PAYG system so that if you earn an income the first whatever that benefit is, is taxed at 90% or something, wouldn’t be impossible. Then every week you get that benefit in your bank account. Problem largely solved, I think.
I’m sorry, is this your blog? Your comment makes no sense. If you are the blog owner it contradicts everything you’ve said and if you’re not, well, it’s not about you.
That sounds awful. If you are up for it, the more people taking legal action on this stuff in public, the greater the pressure on the government to change the system. We seem to have lost the “vote for change” option, so it comes down to pressuring all the parties for change via the media. Albeit at some point you might end up like Deborah Russell in Aotearoa… running for parliament 🙂
You might be somewhat more terrified if you read this story from NZ: The minister known as “Pullya Benefit” released income details of two women who had dared to criticise her actions as minister, leading to something of a media frenzy. After grinding through the legal system and having her complaint upheld by agencies with seemingly no power to actually punish anyone, one complainant gave up (the minister released a letter saying she’s sorry the complainant felt hurt, she disagreed that in this case breaking the privacy laws was wrong but “robust debate is important in a democracy”).
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10587255
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1208/S00220/media-statement-on-paula-bennett-privacy-complaint.htm
This is not a democracy.
This is horrifying! Not only were you misrepresented and bad mouthed in the press but Centrelink and/or the ATO gave this journalist access to your private information in hopes of discrediting you. This is a legal issue.
i received one of these notices saying i owed $5000+, don’t believe i owe the money but believing they wouldn’t have messed accepted it
This is appalling. BTW I lodged my tax returns late after I went through the divorce and settlement process and was excused by the ATO, I don’t think it’s unusual at all. It looks like Centrelink (the Minister?) is just out to discredit you, probably because you are a high profile complainant. I would think there must be legal recourse for this and would be happy to donate money to your cause if you wish to take legal action.
[…] has now questioned whether the department breached her privacy. She has lodged complaints with Centrelink and other organisations about the release of her […]
I am so disgusted by the leaking of your personal details. So sorry this is happening to you. I know first hand that Centrelink falsify records of trying to contact people. They recorded that they’d contacted me several times AND even that I’d agreed to pay a debt, zero records on my phone of having received a call missed or otherwise. They lie. Everyone who deals with them know this. Stay strong.
My congratulations on pursuing the matter as hard and as long as you did and sympathies on how Centrelink have responded. Your description of dealing with C/Link is spot on – it’s exactly like that – by phone and in person. (Why are there not offices instead of open plan?) Notice that neither the journalist or C/Link addressed those points, sidestepping some issues. Be interested to see if you have a case on the privacy issue – C/Link disclosure helps to discourage others from going public. . .
The Privacy Commissioner is your next port of call. This is vlearly against the Privacy Act. Your lawyers will love it, if you have the stomach for it.
This is an attack on the most vulnerable in the most horrific way in order to reap in as much revenue as possible as quickly as possible for the “government”. I was subject to such an attack in 2014 by the “:government” attack dog, Dun and Bradstreet – also known as D & B. These soulless bottom-feeders harassed me constantly, argued with me, refused to listen to me and generally took great pleasure in treating me like a worthless criminal slave. In the end I refused to deal with them and hung up on them. I negotiated my own agreement with very supportive staff at Centrelink but the government then took what they wanted WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE OR PERMISSION from my tax return. Two unrelated “government” offices – Centrelink and the ATO – crossing boundaries to take MY MONEY. I know a lot of people aren’t going to understand this next comment but this is a last ditch effort by our “owners” to accumulate as much money as possible before the whole financial system goes belly up big time. And that is just around the corner, All I can say is stand your ground and DO NOT BE INTIMIDATED BY THESE FILTHY AGGRESSIVE SCUMBAGS. Oooooh, my anger is still palpable. I detest such evil.
Centrelink are a bunch of devious, lying mongrels. I have been harassed for going on 16 years since I went on the Aged pension. My latest trigger was to advise them of a change of address and possible underpayment. Three months on, I have been lied to, threatened by a cut to my pension, and given no replies to my queries. I even wrote to Hank Jongen. No reply. I refuse to discuss matters over the phone, because, unless you secretly record it, you have no evidence of contact or decisions. When I mentioned on a forum of chasing my file to see what was corrupt on it, I was advised by others that they had tried under FOI and received files with whole sections blocked out, or erroneous information. Centrelink is hooked up to other government departments and their sludge has penetrated there, so that you get threats from these other departments based on CL`s data. If they have access to your files, where`s the privacy?
Latest in the saga. I went to the Commonwealth Ombudsman who said they couldn`t move forward until I had exhausted the Complaints Process. Haha. I complained in mid-January and heard nothing back, so I complained again today. I brought up a screen on CL/My Gov that said my complaint in January had been ‘finalised’. News to me.
Reblogged this on The Red Window and commented:
This is a must read. By Blue Milk.
This is horrifying. This is definitely a legal matter and you should receive an apology for this egregious breach of privacy. Who are the people who approved the release of your personal information and on what basis did they release it? They should explain themselves. Disgusting and disgraceful.
This is really awful. We are in a situation currently where we have a debt incurred because someone at Centrelink did not do their job and it is clearly documented that what I requested to happened didn’t occur (well it is clearly documented that I rang and requested a change and reported a change in our circumstance and the person whoever that was didn’t complete the task they wrote all the details down but didn’t do the full job.)
So I am disputing the debt on the basis that I did what I was required to do. I have had one appeals person tell me the debt is calculated correctly. I am not disputing that I can do basic maths. A second person has rung and argued with me that it wasn’t an administrative error ummmm what else was it if it wasn’t an administrative error. Though that second review isn’t complete but I am expecting that to come back telling me the debt stands because I should have noticed that the amount had changed and known somehow that this wasn’t the right amount. How anyone is supposed to know what the correct amount is that you are meant to be paid is absolutely beyond me. You report income, you get a letter it says you are going to be paid x what reason is there to question this.
As an added complication to all of this I have dissociative amnesia meaning that I don’t have good recall of information for the past few years of my life slowly life is starting to filter back in little by little but for 2 years I have been living the movie 50 first dates and there are still massive chunks of time (like years!) that I don’t remember. This was part of the reason that I was getting a payment.
I was going to write a detailed letter of complaint and go to the media. I am not even saying that we won’t pay the debt, I just want them to take responsibility that the debt occurred because of their error. But apparently as a Centrelink client we do not have the reasonable expectation that when we request a change or report earnings etc that the person will do what they have been requested to. If they had in my case we would never incurred the debt.
However, given the treatment that you have received and the details they have released of yours I am concerned that if I do go public what will that do to us and what will Centrelink do.
If your ex tries to ring up and report his earnings he won’t be able to speak to anyone about your Centrelink records due to privacy so how is it ok that they release your personal information???
I’m really sorry this happened to you. Thank you for your eloquent advocacy.
“(Similar privacy principle) allows an agency to disclose personal information if the law requires or authorises that disclosure. A law authorises a use for another purpose if legislation governing the using agency clearly and specifically gives it discretion to use the personal information for that purpose. The agency must be able to point to a specific relevant discretion in the legislation governing it.”
C v Australian Government Agency [2007] PrivCmrA 3
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/PrivCmrA/2007/3.html
It’s time to investigate Paul Malone’s ability to get into your personal files at Centrelink. I wonder which politician in the Federal government allowed that.
Is this the story that Alan Tudge is alleged to have re-posted on social media?
Looks like someone has submitted an FOI request for the legal advice related to the release of your personal information:
https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/personal_information_release
Since Centrelink has been up to these antics for years, it looks like a Royal Commission (yes, more money) is needed to clean up the mess. Of course, with both sides of politics aware of the problems, it`s going to take someone with guts to first establish a RC and then have the strength within the Party to implement the recommendations.
Thank you for publishing your reply to the article which used false Centrelink information about you. There have also been several other people during the current Centrelink debt scam situation and previously about other Centrelink issues where people’s reputation has been trashed by the Murdoch media. It is clear that there is a government campaign to discourage and demoralise people from speaking out about what is happening. Thanks for having the guts to tell your side of the story. It’s scandalous & I believe illegal for Centrelink to give your private information to the media.
[…] to a blogger's account of her interactions with payments agency Centrelink. The blogger joined many others critical of Centrelink's data-matching scheme. The Canberra Times article included […]
Wow, I saw the headline for an article about this but didn’t realise it was you. Really doesn’t feel like the government is representing its people at the moment.
Oh, the Liberal/National Coalition is representing *its* people all right. That corporate tax cut is still on the table at $4.5B a year, but Centrelink is going after the poorest to shave 0.1B/year or so. I think that makes it clear who are their people and who aren’t.
Really sorry to hear about this terrible breach in privacy and personal attack in the media.
Keep on keeping on and eat much chocolate (or whatever floats your boat!)!
[…] her blog yesterday, Fox wrote that “this has been such a disturbing experience”. She wrote the article, she explained, […]
Your initial article and this response are articulate and measured, and it’s important for our whole society to hear clear accounts of what it is like to deal with these abhorrent robo-debts. I’m just so sorry you are going through having your name bandied about everywhere in the media at the moment, as a result (of what the morally bankrupt government is doing). I hope you and your family are OK. This amount of scrutiny must be scary. I just wanted you to know how much I admire you and to acknowledge that I know your writing is coming at a cost to you that’s probably pretty overwhelming.
Sue the bastards
[…] Is this what happens when you criticise government? Here’s a scary one! Andie Fox published a piece on her encounter with Centrelink’s debt recovery service, and a Fairfax journalist has responded by receiving and publishing further details of her Centrelink account — which are meant to be confidential. Apparently it’s not just NewsLtd who goes after individuals who aren’t sufficiently obsequious. […]
I am sorry to hear your well-presented article was used against you! I thought we lived in a democracy, not a fascist nanny state! Explains why this government stripped journalism from the student VET fee help scheme. What happens to people less articulate than yourself Andie Fox? What of all the other Centrelink recipients being sent notices for debts they do not and never have owed anyone! If 20% or more have been wrongly targeted that’s a large number of people. Sounds like a good reason for a class action. People are already taking their lives over these false Robo debts. You described so well people’s experience of walking into Centrelink. The tick box forms don’t have a way to capture some common issues. All of these need to be taken into consideration in determining if a person has a debt or not. it would seem the biggest fraudsters are those “running” the country right now!
[…] Milk writes on her personal blog of the same name, about her experience in criticising the government and how subsequently her private information was given to a journalist and used against her […]
[…] experience” of having her personal information distributed to the media, and asked “Is this what happens when you criticise government?” I think we can safely say that Ms Fox did not authorise the release […]
[…] released to the media in order to, it was claimed, ‘correct the record.’ She has responded here. This claimed ‘legal right to correct the record’ does not exist. This was unethical, […]
[…] information released to the media in order to, it was claimed, ‘correct the record.’ She has responded here. This claimed ‘legal right to correct the record’ does not exist. This was unethical, immoral […]
[…] Fox initially broke the story in the form of a blog post on the 26th (Is this what happens when you criticise government?). The Guardian was then first to break the developing story after the blog post made by Andie Fox, […]