Transcript

LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: Our politicians were also focused today on the annual Closing the Gap report, which looks at Indigenous disadvantage in Australia, and how much progress - or otherwise - we're making in fixing it.

Unfortunately, the answer is very little.

The report looks at seven target areas, from incarceration rates to life expectancy to early childhood education, and only one of them is on track - school attendance.

Both sides of politics have, once again, pledged to do better.

Somebody trying to hold them to account is Jackie Huggins, the co-chair of the National Congress of Australia's First People.

She spoke to me from Canberra earlier.

Jackie Huggins, thank you very much for joining us this evening.

JACKIE HUGGINS, AUTHOR AND ACTIVIST: Thank you.

LEIGH SALES: What's going on? Why are we meeting only one of the seven targets?

JACKIE HUGGINS: Well, I think it's because we're not working together, and I think that there certainly needs to be a partnership between the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community, through our peak organisations who've been doing this work for three, four decades now, and the policymakers, with the bureaucracy and the Government.

LEIGH SALES: How is it possible that people aren't working together when, as you say, we've been talking about this for decades?

JACKIE HUGGINS: It's very difficult, because I think that you have a whole moving on of bureaucrats, of people who are dedicated to those positions, and they move on all the time.

Unfortunately, when you lose that core business, that corporate knowledge, then, unfortunately, it is a problem.

I must say that, with our people, the situation is still the same. It's getting worse, really and that's a sad reflection on Australia as a very rich nation in terms of Aboriginal people - we are the sickest and the poorest, and the least housed, job-wise. Every social statistic in our country is with Aboriginal people at the lowest ebb.

LEIGH SALES: Of those seven targets I mentioned, the one that's being met relates to school attendance. Why is there success there, and is there anything we can learn from that that can be applied to the other targets?

JACKIE HUGGINS: I must admit, there's been significant government investment in the children attending school, particularly in remote areas, in the Northern Territory, West Australia, Queensland.

I think that it comes with government investment. It's not all about dollars, of course, because we know that there was a $500 million cut in 2013, and that cut out a lot of our front-line services, with shelters, employment, night patrols, antenatal programs, women's breast-screening programs, and unfortunately, with that came funding that was given to non-Indigenous organisations in terms of the Indigenous advancement strategy.

And what that has not been able to meet is the full implementation of our services on the ground.

So, something drastically is happening here that is so wrong, Leigh. We need to fix it, and we need to find a better way to do this.

LEIGH SALES: The former prime minister, Kevin Rudd, was on the program last night and he suggested that the current Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, hasn't made enough of a priority of Indigenous Affairs and shown enough leadership in that area.

What do you think about that?

JACKIE HUGGINS: Well, I must say to you that, had you been talking to me last year, there was no engagement. There was no relationship with Government.

It's only been within the last six months that the National Congress of Australia's First Peoples has now engaged with the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, through his department, and we've started a dialogue of engagement and really working out between us what needs to be done.

LEIGH SALES: And are you seeing any tangible progress coming from that so far? Or is it still just at the discussion stage?

JACKIE HUGGINS: It's at the discussion stage. However, we have the Redfern Statement now, which is the blueprint, we believe, and the road map, for having solutions to the issues which present in our communities.

Today, we had a breakfast, and we talked about that full engagement, and the Government has taken that on board that that will continue.

I hope it will get stronger and more meaningful, and that we really look at the way that these issues can be fixed within our own communities but through the eyes of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peak organisations and other services.

LEIGH SALES: As we discussed, there is undoubtedly Indigenous disadvantage - unquestionably. But there are also many very successful Indigenous Australians, you're one of them yourself.

Is it fair that, when we talk about the Indigenous community, we talk about it as one group, that it's all a story of negativity? What can we learn from successful Indigenous Australians such as yourself about closing the gap?

JACKIE HUGGINS: Well, that's true and I feel that, you know, I have many privileges, that a lot of my relatives and relations don't have, necessarily.

I think that we can look towards the way in which education plays a role within that. It's been a very strong commitment for me.

The way our families are in full support of what we do, and certainly that has been another strong commitment, you know, I've had a fairly good life for an Aboriginal woman.

However, I know that, in our communities, that is not the case.

LEIGH SALES: You didn't start off with the privilege, though, that you said that you have now. You mentioned education and family. Was that key, do you think, in your own life to closing that gap, or were there other factors involved as well?

JACKIE HUGGINS: No, absolutely. I think those two were the essential ingredients for me.

Of course, we do come with genetic disease and chronic diseases. Unfortunately, some of my family have that.

I think, for me, I think the determination to really do something really important for my people and to be able to, you know, speak out on occasions where I've had to, and to really look at how we can assist everybody not only myself and my families, but everybody in the community, to have a very rich life and to deserve making better lives for themselves.

LEIGH SALES: Well, thank you very much for making that the focus of your life, Jackie Huggins, and thank you for joining us.

JACKIE HUGGINS: Thank you, Leigh.