Image: Steam/Team StrikerIn an email sent out to developers, Steam has confirmed it will be adding the 10% Goods and Services Tax to all purchases made in Australia in July.
The end result? Steam games will almost certainly become more expensive in Australia.
It's part of a roll out across multiple different countries. Starting in March, for example, Steam will be adding sales to taxes to Switzerland, South Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Iceland, South Africa, and India.
Australia's rollout is slated for July.
According to the email sent from Steam:
The VAT tax amount will be included in the advertised price of your product, just like VAT is currently treated in the EU. This means the customer will pay the price displayed on the storefront, and the tax will be separated out afterwards.
It is possible that publishers will adjust Steam pricing to match retail pricing of PC games, but unlikely. The end result of this move: Australians will almost certainly be paying more for video games on Steam, 10% more.
Buying Steam games was already pricy for Australians, it's now about to get worse. The only possible silver lining: will localised pricing in Australian dollars come next? We've reached out to Valve to ask if that's the case. We'll update if we hear back.
Comments
Aussie Dollar is on the up, though, so that'll offset things unless they start setting prices in AUD at last...
Although being an American company they probably think adding taxes to the "sticker price" and then charging a different amount is totally normal. No, that's not how the rest of the world does it, USians.
Except the US Fed is likely (actuallys wants) to increase interest rate to offset the equity boom from Trump's policies (economists from Deloitte peg it at around March, else before the end of the year). Coupled with the lower inflation (low tier band on RBA's target) in Australia due to waning commodities, interest rates locally are not likely to change.
Last edited 22/02/17 3:03 pmExchange rates aren't interest rates. I don't understand what what you said has got to do with what I said.
Yet another good reason to Learn to Proxy.
I tend to buy my Australia tax or Australian censor games on a second (burner) account and gift them across to my main, although if I was starting a new account today I'd simply recommend that people set their location as Alaska and proxy in as a US resident permanently.
In any case, other sites are going to be less aggressive about enforcing the Australia tax, and/or less aggressive about detecting proxy purchases, and tend to be cheaper nowadays than Steam anyhow.
Last edited 22/02/17 9:25 amBe careful doing this.
I had my then-girlfriend gift me some games [she lived in the US] from another steam account, and my account was promptly suspended and I was locked out.
Some emails later and I was able to have my account unlocked [after providing Valve with proof that she was in fact a real person who lived in the US].
Point is, Valve do have the right to suspend your account for breaches of their TOS [which proxying to avoid local pricing is], which results in complete loss of your entire Steam library. How much is that worth to you?
Last edited 22/02/17 4:04 pmI'm guessing that she was actually in Australia when the purchase was made and got pinged due to her Australian IP address at purchase conflicting with the region listed in her account settings. This is not like using a proxy at all, it's like changing the country in your Steam settings and hoping that Steam won't notice.
In fact, people do get account locked (temporarily) all the time for this. It usually comes up when a citizen of one country moves to and/or visits another country and doesn't do anything to update their country of residence in Steam's account settings (which there is a process for).
In fact, Steam has a whole system in place to prevent cross region gifting and virtually no developers use it to block gifting between first world regions. In the absence of a listed block (usually this is for Russia, South America and some Asian countries) cross region gifting is completely acceptable under Steam's ToS and, indeed, happens all the time.
In any case, even if your account did get locked for doing something stupid, this doesn't prevent you from playing games you already have, Valve only prevents you from buying or registering new ones against that particular account. They also typically have at least a two strike/warning system where you can get your account unlocked so long as you promise not to do it again (that is, promise to be more careful not to get caught next time).
Nope. She was in the US at the time. Legit US IP address, credit card, and actual home address.
Nope, it was completely locked. It's not like a VAC lockout or something, it was completely disabled from logging in.
Even if they have policies stating warnings or whatnot, the fact remains that we are entrusting our libraries to a third party, and if they really want to they have the power to completely remove access to said library with very little we can do about it.
I'm not against Steam at all, I use it quite regularly. However these are the realities of a system wrapped in DRM.
I'm having trouble imagining how you guys have become the unique snowflakes that have trigged some kind of ban for doing something that is completely consistent with Steam's ToS and that happens with Steam's blessing tens of thousands of times a day.
Last edited 22/02/17 5:11 pm¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Perhaps her account was set to Australia and didn't get changed back to the US when she moved back there, although why your account got locked and not the purchasing account (which is the usual way Valve do things, and why I recommend a burner account) remains a mystery.
There is the benefit that this will almost certainly result in an Au steam store (like our NZ brothers). This should let true regional pricing occur, rather than the current fuckfest of being in the US store, but having $USD added ontop of some games.
Wait... so you're saying, if they're going to screw us over, they should at least be up-front about it? I mean, conversion to an AUD store will mean prices get rounded up a bit anyway... Tho it'll probably end up cheaper, given how much Paypal already screws people with their exchange rates.
I think he means, if we are getting charged GST, we should have the pricing for Australia in AU $. An example is GTA V, which is currently $75 on steam... USD. This converts to $96, then you pay a conversion fee on top of that. You can get this cheaper at EB Games where is $89 off sale (and currently it is cheaper due to their sale).
If it was $75 AUD then it would seem fairer.
Yea, that's basically what I said. If Steam does a straight conversion to AU pricing (ie. using the current exchange rate) with their current prices +10% GST, we'll still be getting screwed on the price, but won't have to worry about low exchange rates used by sites like Paypal (usually about 4c below the current official exchange rate) or bank's currency conversion fees.
I only mentioned "rounding up" because conversion would usually result in random prices that they'd normally just round up to the next 49c or 99c (eg. USD20 converts to $26.04, which would likely get rounded up to $26.49 or $26.99).
I hate how Paypal does that. How can they possibly justify always having exchange rates significantly below current rates?
It's how they make their money. To my understanding, they don't make anything on domestic payments - so they offer slightly lower exchange rates to turn a profit. I've got no problem with them doing it, I just wish they were more up-front about the fact that they are doing it.
Except the current fuckfest is more often than not cheaper than the EBgames RRP that we will be subjected to on a truly AUD store.
Even with the dollar being bad, it's only the rare asshole publishers that result in games being more expensive than going to EB. And digital should be cheaper by default, after all there is no rent, no staff, and no magazine or disc protection upsell.
But I suppose we can get refunds on steam and you can't at EB for PC
I just buy games from G2A now. Quite a few times the AUD prices have been lower than the Steam USD prices.
Winning :)
Last edited 22/02/17 9:44 pmThat's all well & good. But will this mean we will be paying in AUD at long last? or will we have to pay in USD still (which seems illegal) & some people will still have to cop conversion fees from their bank for that.
Also if they adjusted the prices on Steam to reflect retail then games like GTA V would be $67 AUD, not $100, like it currently is..
I don't even know when I last bought a game on Steam, I find it too expensive these days, especially when I can get Steamworks games retail for sometimes a quarter price. Like I paid $20 for Doom from EB Games, Steam want $80 USD for it which is $104 AUD, get fucked.
Bought DOOM at Big W for $60 at launch. Steam prices are an absolute joke nowadays. EB is nearly always cheaper and that's saying something
It's not just Steam. The PSN isn't anywhere near as bad (at least they charge me in AUD) but you can still find games $10-$15 cheaper if you just pop into a BigW or Target. That said Steam is still pretty awful. If your going to shaft us at least do it with our own currency.
Funny how only a few years ago we were all laughing at EB/JB saying "who'd buy retail when Steam is half the price??" and now Steam just continue to raise the prices...
Last edited 22/02/17 10:34 amWell it would be funny if it weren't so depressing anyway.
It's only funny to those who don't have gaming PCs.
(I promise I'm not laughing)
But those few years ago we were at like $1.05 to the USD, now we're what, $0.76 to the USD.
They haven't even raised the prices yet, until they confirm which side the 10% sales tax is coming from, calm down.
They don't have to confirm. We already know that they're going to add it on top because that's how they do it with every single other country with a VAT tax. It's not like developers and Steam are going to suddenly get all generous and take a 10% hit to their own bottom lines as a donation to the Australian taxpayer.
Exactly. If they just shove 10% onto the current USD prices it's going to end up being ridiculously expensive. Given that Valve have tried to argue that they don't do business in Australia (and were promptly told that yes, they do) despite the fact that they implemented regional pricing specific for Australia, I kind of doubt they'll suddenly implement a true AUD store after all this time.
Steam is awful for pricing unless it's an indie game or it's on sale, and it's been awful ever since publishers realised that Australians were getting games much cheaper than the retail box copy. I remember when CoD4 was first on Steam, they jacked the price up to $89.95 USD to "match" AUD RRP, but with the exchange rate of the time it ended up being over $100. It's a sad state of affairs when I can sometimes buy a physical console game for less than the asking price of a PC digital download from Steam!
If they have to pay GST, then I wonder if they have to charge in AUD because they're operating here under Australian law, etc..
No, they don't have to charge in AUD.
Sadly, the change is not a result of a change in Steam policy, but rather due to a change in Australian law: https://www.ato.gov.au/General/New-legislation/In-detail/Indirect-taxes/GST/GST-on-low-value-imported-goods/
As such, I doubt we will see any changes much beyond those stated already. Unfortunately, however, I would expect to hear similar news from other digital distribution platforms in the near future (Origin, Uplay, etc).
Last edited 22/02/17 10:58 pmI paid $45US (about $60) for a DOOM Steam Key on launch day from GMG. Steam want nearly twice that? Good luck to 'em, I'll continue to buy elsewhere.
Really interested in seeing that response from Valve.
Also, meeting my first leprechaun.
LOOK! A FLYING PIG!
It's only flying because the ground is so cold, you know, from Hell freezing over and all.
It's just a little airborne, it's still good, it's still good.
I hear they're going to announce HL3 in the same response.
Like the above comments, this better mean we get charged in AUD. Otherwise I might just not buy games on Steam again. Double dipping with USD + GST would be absurd.
Haven't bought a game in over a year as nothing jumped out at me and I already have a large backlog.
All hail the mighty backlog, here to save us in our hour of need!
But seriously, this is the whole point of building a backlog. Buy games when they are on sale or when the price drops so that you can play them in times of gaming drought or high prices.
Yo dawg, I heard you like paying Australian taxes, so I added Australian taxes to your Australia Tax
oh I almost forgot about this farce ... thanx for reminding me
What did anyone expect? For as long as games have been a thing, the guiding principle has been "fuck Australia because fuck Australia". If there's a way we can possibly be screwed, it'll happen.
aren't most of the steam prices pretty much the same as retail (which always had tax included)?
In others news, GoG.com reports a sudden rush to their GoG connect service from Australian users.
If GOG gets the sales volume, they will also be pressured to charge Australians GST too. This change originates with our government rather than Valve, and applies to all online retailers with sales over a certain threshold.
Yeah but at least GOG already charge you in AUD. I also don't think their sales are anywhere near the level of Steam yet. Personally I see GOG as the superior service...with the no DRM and all that.
Last edited 22/02/17 12:11 pmI know that, what I was getting at was this move may cause many to finally abandon Steam.
Hard the believe that despite the DRM it was a good system yet is now another example of how the great have fallen.
Right, but if many people move to GOG over Steam because Steam is charging 10% GST, all that will happen is that GOG will also have to start charging 10% GST (or risk having their site blocked by most Australian ISPs).
This is only a point of differentiation if you assume that GOG will never be successful.
It maybe all that it takes. GoG doesn't gouge by using AUD amounts with USD currency.
If they are using US currency then use the 60 USD pricing; don't take the 90 AUD and make it 90 USD.
If Value continues the AUD amount with USD currency and then adds 10% GST on top it will a "straw that broke the camel's back" reaction where many will finally tire of the gouging and bail.
Even if/when they charge GST, GoG will be OK because the DRM free nature is a big attraction to many.
If publishers are setting Australia-specific prices on Steam to roughly match the physical copy RRP, wouldn't it seem equally likely that those publishers set the prices so they match inclusive of GST?
As far as getting the best deal as a customer, you're probably best off not giving loyalty to any one retailer. If GOG gives you a better deal for a particular game, use them. If Steam gives a better deal for a different game, use them. If a third retailer beats them both, use them.
If you get into the mind set that everything you buy has to come from a single source, you're setting yourself up to be ripped off.
this is related to australia insisting on overseas companies doing business in australia to add the gst. this change is supposed to come into effect on 1 july 2017. it will affect GOG and amazon and anyone else overseas selling things to us lil australians (that or we are about to be spending a lot of taxpayer money on import duties)
Yes, I know. As I pointed out, pricing is already bad in Steam as the are using AUD amounts with USD currency.
For example, a game sells in the US for 60 USD while the same game in Australia sells for 90 AUD.
Go to Steam though and you will find the game listed for 90 USD.
Unless Valve drops this nonsense, it doesn't matter how much GST is being charged by the likes of GoG; people will jump ship as applying the GST will apply to their already hyper inflated prices.
I'm not that concerned. Steam is pretty much the last place I get my Steam keys from.
Same. Haven't bought a steamkey off Steam in............
in............
in..........
Jesus I'm legit in confusion over how long its been????
Back when Colm Meanly still stared in DS9.
:O Dassa long time massa....
I bought a game at Christmas, but only because I had somehow accrued enough spare change in the account (from various $20 cards from the family over the years) to buy Planet Coaster.
Apart from that, I'm the same as you. I couldnt say when I bought a game from Steam before that. And dont expect any in the near future, given the $2.31 sitting on the account.
The games on steam are already more expensive than the retail boxed versions, now add an extra 10% lol.
USD + currency conversion + GST = no thanks for me.
I'll just keep buying my keys from cdkey websites instead then...
Part of me thinks this could be a result of Valve being told "no, you can't deny people their right to a refund".
Bet the pricing won't be adjusted, so now we'll end up paying GST + the USA conversion rate + the general "fuck you" Australia tax.
I'll respond with something appropriately Australian:
Geeeeeeeeet fuuuuuuuuucked.
It's not retaliatory from Valve, it's a response to our government indicating they'd block online stores that don't collect GST. The new government regulations come into effect in July this year, the same time the Steam GST addition comes into effect.
And let that be a reminder to anyone stupid enough to have supported the internet filter or government blacklist proposals over recent years. They're clearly not just being used to stop piracy or pedophilia rings, they're used to stop anything the government feels like stopping, and to hell with our rights.
Last edited 22/02/17 10:53 amFair play, I'd completely forgotten about that.
I suppose I'm not salty about the GST as such (it's a legal requirement), it's more so the possibility that the rest of the pricing won't be adjusted, so we'll just plain end up paying more.
Agree whole heartedly. Unfortunately that's a publisher setting and not a Steam setting so the best Valve can do is enable Australian pricing (which I sure hope they do soon), then publishers have to adjust their actual prices to match. I figure if it happens at all, it'll be a glacially slow process.
Glacially slow is still faster than Valve Time.
Hopefully this means that they will give us Australian dollars as well in the same move... USD is such a ridiculous currency to be spending. Particularly when some games are already more expensive in Australia on Steam than in the US.
So basically, tell me what I'm spending in AUD and the tax shouldn't be so noticeable.
Surely this just means Steam is collecting the tax and sending it to the government on behalf of the developers, so the developers don't have to do it? Just like how the Play Store and the App Store work. I don't see why this should change consumer pricing. Developers who were previously avoiding tax *may* hike their prices to keep profit the same, but just raising prices across the board is ridiculous and I bet it's not what the email actually said.
Last edited 22/02/17 10:46 amWrong spot, see my reply to hotcakes above.
Last edited 22/02/17 10:46 amWho's still buying off steam anyway? Even when they have sales, after currency conversion it's still usually cheaper to buy somewhere else.
I think it has to be priced in aussie dollars because you have to derive the %10 GST amount as an Australian tax from the A$ amount.
Oh and Screw Valve for still being anti-consumer ripoff turd nuggets.
So Steam will charge in $US and charge GST. We pay increased prices, currency conversion, conversion charges AND a tax (of which the proceeds almost certainly will never get sent to the ATO). Looks like I'm not buying from Steam .... even during their sales.
you got something to explain that claim??
Wouldn't be surprised if they charge US$60 + US$6 GST and then pay AU$6 to the ATO, therefore pocketing the conversion difference for the GST component.
Apart from the Steam sales, digital distribution has gone down the toilet in recent years. When it costs more to get it digital than retail, you know something is not right. While Steam with its payments in USD is annoying, don't get me started on the consoles and their ridiculous pricing models for games (3 year old games at first release prices)
Just a gut feeling. They dont charge in $AU and they claim they don't do business here. Do you think they are going to fill out a BAS?
They will. The question isnt so much about whether they will lodge or not, but how much of their profit has been siphoned off to Ireland...
The argument is that you buy from Steam Ireland (or something along those lines) and not Steam Australia. Steam Australia basically only advertises for the international arm. You're basically importing everything you buy, with that import being valued at whatever you pay - call it $100. GST laws still apply to that import though.
When the limit was $1000 though, that $100 purchase fell well under that so there was no need to worry about it. Thats no longer the case, so assuming they meet a couple of other criteria (that are ridiculously easy to meet) there will be a need to register and lodge.
The excuse that its an import under $1000 is no longer valid.
*puts on Maxwell Smart voice*
Ah, of course. The old "we never made a profit in Australia" trick.
Strangely enough, not quite. They argue that they are importers instead, and the value of the import is low enough that GST doesnt apply. Same result, but different argument. Which I expect will mean they change their process and add an extra layer so they CAN argue the "we not make profit" argument.
So at the moment (note: this is a VERY simple summary), we buy from Steam Ireland for $100. All they need to do is have our datasource be something like Singapore, and they have an added layer to siphon income out of our jurisdiction.
We still pay $100, and that gets hit by GST, but Singapore then argue that it costs $90 to get it from Ireland, and a further $9 in local costs to host, pay wages, etc etc, which all get included when figuring their GST debt. Acquisitions go up, taxed profits go down. FYI, Steam Australia do the same thing, but instead argue their arrangement is to mirror Singapore, and have no direct dealings with customers. It fails the pub test, but passes the legal test, which to them is all that matters.
Thats the fundamental behind "we never made a profit in Australia" with multinationals, and to fix it will need a lot of countries to be closing loopholes at the same time. Which isnt going to happen.
Well, they've already lost that argument
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/why-valve-was-found-guilty-of-breaching-australian-consumer-law/
Just... Fuck you Valve... Seriously, I really don't think I'm even going to buy things during sales now. USD pricing (that's greater than the US store) + GST + conversion fees = negating almost any sale price...
Ah well, buying games from Humble Bundles and key resellers is the way forward it seems.
This is not going to work. We are already getting regional price which is set by publisher to be higher than the US region.
39.99 USD games are close to 59.99 USD on launch in Australia store due to regional price and then put in another 10%. Thats like extremely overcharging to the point buying full RRP game from ebgames will be cheaper.
Wow, lots of angry faces in the thread today. Did Valve ever state why they bumped up the US price in Australia? I'd wager that it was publisher pressure over Gabe wanting a new ivory back-scratcher. Publishers hate the idea of world-wide distribution, as it means that they can't charge countries that have a higher expendable income (Australia) higher prices than those who don't (America). Also, if you're goingto be mad at Valve for complying with Australian law and collecting an extra 10% for GST, you should be equally mad at them for complying with Australian law and offering refunds.
Don't get me wrong, if the price is too high, of course you should buy somewhere else. There's just no need to start burning effigies.
Actually we're more upset that Valve insist on having their store in AUD rather than USD, and until the ACCC blatantly told them that they were doing business in Australia (contrary to their bullshit arguments that they weren't) they were arguing that ACL didn't apply to them either. It's the publishers that make Steam an awful platform for pricing, and everybody here knows that. But Valve aren't helping by keeping a weird division that tacks us to the USD while also permitting regional pricing (some of which is Australia specific). It's not Valve that tells publishers what to price their games, but it is Valve that operates the platform and elects to charge in USD and yet maintain Australia as a separate region too.
I have no problems with them finally paying GST - that's fine by me, that's extra tax dollars going into the coffers that pay for government services. But that doesn't mean that Steam is a good deal nor does it make any sense how it now operates. People aren't angry at Valve for collecting GST, nor for the actions of publishers. They're confused that Valve are now collecting an Australia specific tax, maintaining Australia as a separate region, but still charging in USD which ties the price to the exchange rate - and that makes absolutely no sense.
I can understand that, but shouldn't people be more sour at the regional changes in pricing than getting charged in USD? Then at least we have the potential of coming out on top every now any then when the exchange rate swings in our favour. I have to admit, I rarely buy new release games, so I'm avoiding a lot of what is making people mad here, I rarely buy anything over $9.99 on Steam.
I don't know, I feel like the best solution would be for Steam to quietly leave themselves open to Proxy/DNS exploits for Australians to use their services as Americans, the same way that Hulu/Amazon Prime/Netflix does.
Well Netflix cracked down on proxies, and the risk is that the big publishers might up and leave if Valve don't at least attempt to secure the loopholes. We saw a sort of trial of it with Civ VI keys.
The issue with regional pricing is that when it's done to try to "match" RRP boxed copies, and when the AUD is weak against the USD, the digital cost is well and truly over the cost of boxed copies. Meanwhile, the cost of a PC game in Australia has remained relatively stable over the last decade or so - despite fluctuating exchange rates. Basically, we almost never benefit from it anymore - it only ever gets marginally cheaper on the majority of AAA titles, sort of like the differene between buying at EB or JB HiFi ($10 or so).
We won't get rid of regional pricing - the other publishers won't allow it, and it has a purpose in some respects to make things affordable for 'developing' markets - but regional pricing in a currency that isn't your own is ridiculous.
I pretty much only buy games during the sales, so, yeah
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