Category Archives: Militia Movement

The Complete Anti-Fascist Reading List

The term “fascism” has been thrown around left circles for decades as a proxy for authoritarianism, racism, or both. This inability to properly define and understand how fascist movements erupt and grow has created a deficit in organizing, and as we head into a Trump presidential administration and the massive growth of the Alt Right and white nationalism organizers across the left need the tools to break down these movements and how they work. There have been a lot of “reading lists” put out recently, so we thought we would compile one of our own that combines a whole number of threads that are important for understanding how fascism works. This includes detailed looks at the Alt Right, the more mainstream “Alt Lite,” the role of Neofolk and goth music, white nationalist organizing, the history of white nationalist violence, how the revival of scientific racism works, how anti-Semitism plays out, and all the other tentacles that make the intersectional beast of the new fascist movement.

This list of readings is far from complete, and this page is going to continue to be updated as we add new sections and flesh out the ones that are here. If you think there are some great ones that are missing, let us know, and also know that it is the writings, videos, and audio recordings below that make up a lot of the thinking that goes into this website. We have also angled the list below more in favor of newer articles as well as ones that are generally accessible(though there are a few academic ones dotted in there).

 

Alt Right

 

Alt Lite

 

Neofolk

 

White Nationalist Organizing

 

Anti-Semitism

 

Scientific Racism

 

Defining Fascism

 

Queerness and Fascism

 

Esoteric Fascism

 

National Anarchism

 

Third Position

 

White Nationalist Violence

 

Conspiracy Theory

 

Militia Movement

 

Donald Trump and White Nationalism

 

Anti-Fascist Organizing

INDIANA: WHITE NATIONALISTS, NEO-NAZIS, AND “PATRIOTS” COLLABORATE FOR EVENT

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Editor’s Note: Due to high calls, the Lion’s Club of Indiana has contacted the people who originally booked the event and told them that they do not want their business. We were told on the phone by the Lion’s Club that they do not agree with the views of these groups and are opposed to them. They also stated that the fascists told the Lion’s Club on the phone that they had already found another venue and that the event was still happening. So stay vigilant, but as for now, it appears that the Lion’s Club event has been shut down. 

The Traditionalist Workers Party, which recently made headlines for joining with other neo-Nazis in the failed rally in Sacramento as well as promising to promote Donald Trump from left-wing detractors, is one of the co-sponsors of an Indiana event promising to bring in “Patriots and Constitutional Nationalists.” The event is billed as hosted by The Sons and Daughters of Liberty Radio, a racist mouthpiece for the Midwest militia movement. The Indiana chapters of the Soldiers of Odin, a racialist vigilante group formed to attack Muslim refugees, will also join as organizers of the project. The III%s and the Indiana chapter of American Patriots United, as well as unnamed “local car, motorcycle, and truck clubs” have also added their name to the event.

This is a surprisingly large event for groups such as these, and an open statement from the regional militia movement that they are closely allied with groups that are open about anti-Semitism, Holocaust Denial, and racial nationalism. Heimbach, the founder and leader of theTraditionalist Workers Party, states publicly that he believes there are racial differences in intelligence, that Jews are running a global conspiracy to destroy the “West,” believes that queer people should be executed, and that the Third Reich should have won World War II. For groups like the Patriots that attempt to venerate veterans, this seems like a reasonably broad oversight.

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According to their public posts, the key organizer of the event is Brien James, who is also the person behind American Vikings Clothing. The website for American Vikings explains that the clothes were originally made for the “MMA and ATV crowd,” yet then falls into bizarre tribalist nonsense about the Havamal, which is a collection of quotes supposedly from first millennium pre-Christian Vikings. While the book is often used in pagan circles, the openly Nazi “Wotanist” branches have specifically appropriated it, mainly because it is easily quotable and focuses on warrior lines that sound intimidating. The website has a section labeled “Havamalism,” which he explains is a focus on the “masculinity” seen in Norse paganism.

The most basic description for Havamalism would be that it is the use of the writings known as the Havamal, as a basis for guiding ones self through life. It is also much more than that, given that I have specifically created the term to stand in both support of, and in contrast to, some widely held beliefs and modern ideas within the Nordic Heathen community.

Havamalism places less emphasis on the scholastic and ritualistic applications of Nordic Heathenry and a stronger emphasis on physicality, masculinity, and general spirituality. We believe in the idea of Valhalla. Literally. We would rather strive to go there than die the straw death. We believe in honor, combat, and righteous violence. A portion of the Heathen community has been infiltrated by weak universalist progressives who can name you every God and Goddess, and dress up and do an excellent blot, but when they insult another man and he challenges them… they are lost and afraid. Always left making excuses about what “battle” and Valhalla do and do not mean in the modern age. We stand in stark contrast to these people and ideas. Battle means what it has always meant. Strength and honor mean what they have always meant.

In another section labeled “Be a Man,” he has some illiterate rants with coded racial language, all of which is meant to goat readers into acting like “a warrior” while attempting to sound like a working-class philosopher.

The best way to keep the chimps and hyenas at bay is to mold yourself into a lion or gorilla. Humans are animals too. Be a ferocious one. Be the hero of your own life story. An able protector. A warrior. Instead of watching formidable men play sports and obsessing over it, go to the gym. Skip the bar Friday night and buy some boxing gloves with your buddies. Get punched in the face. Realize that you aren’t fragile. Carrying a warm mildly sore black eye around feels good. Feels alive. May just be the first time you ever really felt like a man in your life. Try it. Learn the difference between pain and injury. Realize that they both heal quicker than fear or shame. Make yourself formidable. Stand up to anyone and everything that you think is wrong. You might get hurt. You might get arrested. Sure. You might even die in the process.

The actual clothing us even more blatant than the rest of the website’s attempts at primitive pseudo-philosophy, where he sells “White Pride” shirts and clever lines like “This Cracker Won’t Crumble.” Along with various Nordic pagan themes he has ones that just say Irish in the center, which seems a bit ironic given the fact that the Vikings took the Irish as slaves and sacked their homelands repeatedly. A false history has been constructed in the minds of many white nationalists who literally see Irish and Scandinavian history as the same, erasing the historical ethnic conflicts and subsuming them into a constructed whiteness.

Brien is also the founder of the Sons and Daughters of Liberty Radio, as well as a current “Councilman” for their board. Brien’s own friends list shows how deep many of these connections run, between the patriots, the Alt Right, the Men’s Rights movement, and neo-Nazis. His own connections include Justin Garcia, the host of the male tribalist Pressure Project podcast who often hosts Alt Right favorites like Jack Donovan,Richard Spencer, and Jared Taylor. The Traditionalist Workers Party’s Matthew Heimbach is among them, as well as fascist politician Augustus Invictus, Trad Worker co-founder Matt Parrott, and Indiana KKK organizer Thomas Buhls. The rest are filled with skinheads from the reformed American Front and other organizations, and it is mainly a mess of Trump posters, neo-pagan insignia, and patriot militia banners.

 

The Traditionalist Workers Party is always apt to network at events like these, especially since patriot groups are slightly less reviled than they are. Young members of TWP/TYN like Charles Brown are going to be in attendance. Matthew Heimbach is set to give a rousing speech at the event, which shows that they have to be clearly aware of who he is and what his message is about.

The music will be provided by pseudo-Nazi Paddy Tarleton, who got booted from playing in folk music bands in the Northeast after his association with the White Student Union, the Traditionalist Youth Network, and other racist organizations.  His songs often include snide references to Jews and people of color, and he openly advocates for creating a white Ethnostate, forcefully deporting non-whites, and attacking Jews.  Tarleton recently made a fool of himself after he was tricked by Antifa organizers to reveal inside information about the Trad Worker /Golden State Skinhead event in Sacramento, as well as revealing that the organization did not have unity about that event.

Keystone Skinheads, a notoriously violent neo-Nazi skinhead street gang, have openly been invited, and will be trying to mobilize membership to go to the event.

Note: This event at the Lion’s Club has been shut down, but according to LC officials, they Neo-Nazis have already moved the venue. 

Traditionalist Workers Party Event Canceled by Venue After Anti-Fascist Pressure

Just a few days ago, we ran a story about the Traditionalist Workers Party linking up with Patriot and skinhead groups to hold a community event in Charlottesville, Indiana. The event was booked to be held at the city’s Lion’s Club lodge, which looked to be an inside/outside event for the facility. Several Lion’s Club members voiced their outrage about the event, and anti-racists and anti-fascists in the Indiana area, and from around the country, went to work to counter the scheduled event and contact the Lion’s Club International.

The Lion’s Club acted quickly after being notified, putting out a public statement noting that they did not know the nature of the event and that they were canceling it.

The event which you referenced, was not a Lions Event. The Charlottesville Lions Club was given misinformation regarding the event, when someone asked to rent their building.

Once we were all made aware, Charlottesville Lions realized they did not have a contract for this event, and actually the building was double booked.

It is my understanding that the venue has been changed.

Lions Clubs do not condone these types of meetings. They are in direct violation of our Code of Ethics.

Thank you for your concern.

Sue Topf

The local chapter of the Lion’s Club also put out a statement saying that they were not involved with the event. This is a positive move for a community organization like the Lion’s Club, which took a strong anti-racist stand much more quickly than many community organizations do.

Brien James, the organizer of the event, had to issue a public statement to supporters that they event has lost its venue and is being changed to a private one. This information is no longer public, and you have to message James specifically to get the information. This will all but cancel the event as communication will be difficult and the location will likely end up being difficult to distribute widely. Since it is likely a private residence, there is a smaller likelihood that large numbers will even want to attend.

James found our original article and foolishly commented on it, attempting to distort allegations of the event’s racialist nature.

Come on out if you want. We have nothing to hide. The event is open to the public. There will be people of all races and faiths attending. The 3%ers, SDL, and SOO are all multi-ethnic groups. One of the bike clubs invited is a black bike club. If you are genuinely curious as to what is going on you are welcome to send a representative. If you are just hell bent on looking for trouble you can find that too.

As we reported in the original article, James’ racist organizing and views are well known, as are the organizations involved in the event. No matter what type of posturing he attempts here, anti-fascists are aware of his true intentions.

The canceling of this event is from the direct work of anti-fascists who reached out quickly and organized both an on-the-ground response and those who called in to pressure the Lion’s Club. This is a great show of unity as Alt Right groups reach out to Patriot militias and traditional Nazi organizations, all emboldened by the Donald Trump campaign.

Donald Trump is Coming to Vancouver, WA, Coalition Forms to Confront Him

The Trump train is going to be coming to the Pacific Northwest as a sort of end of the GOP hate-bus. Donald Trump is now battling for the 1,237-delegate number so that he can win the Republican Presidential nomination without contest, something that Ted Cruz and John Kasich came together to try and stop. Even though Cruz and Kasich have officially dropped out of the race, there could still be a certain amount of fear hanging over the Trump campaign about what is going to happen in Cleveland if they do not skate in above the cap. This means more stops than normal, even though it is clear that, by standard delegate counting, no Republican politician could possibly beat him at this point. Even companies like Microsoft how now dumped their support of the RNC so as not to be associated with Trump, showing that even the GOP is being dismantled by a fascist coup on their already existing right-wing ideology.

Besides normal stops in places like Seattle, Trump is planning on coming to Vancouver on May 7th. This stop puts him in earshot of Portland, as Vancouver is one of its suburbs, just across the Columbia River. Though people thought he would make regular Oregon stops since Trump campaign offices opened up in both Eugene and Tigard, Oregon, given that this appearance is just ten days away from the Oregon primary, this may be the only stop in the Portland metro area. He then announced that he will be coming to both Eugene and Medford on quick stops the day before, Friday, May 6th.

Oregon and Washington left and radical organizations have come together in a united front to confront this event, hoping to replicate the opposition that shut down the Chicago event or blockaded roads in the Southwest. A rally has been planned by a coalition of groups including a range from OneAmerica Votes, UFCW and SEIU locals, Bernie coalition supporters, and a range of groups that are taking a radical contingent, including Hella 503, the Portland Solidarity Network, and the Black Rose Anarchist Federation.

This effort has only been bolstered by recent confrontations with the Portland State Students for Trump, who brought in militia supporters from the conspiracy-depot Infowars to bait, harass, and intimidate counter-protesters from the Portland State University Student Union. Their founder, Vladimir Kolychef, is an open nationalist who is regularly posting “race realist” content on his Facebook, sharing quotes from National Alliance leader William Pierce, and using in-jokes from white nationalist websites like the Right Stuff and the Daily Shoah. The Trump campaign has continued to network them besides this information being known, and Vlad continues to publicly state that people have color have a lower IQ than whites and that he prefers a state close to that of Pinochet’s Chile.

It is unsure whether or not their will be open fascist or racialist participants, but the American Front does have a foundation in Vancouver, Washington.  The militia movement seems like it will be the largest racist contingent, coming after the Malheur standoff and the recent call from Infowars to stand with Trump supporters against leftist protesters.

The rally is planned outside the venue on Saturday, May 7th, where speakers will be highlighting Latino voices that are being targeted by the Trump campaign and its racist supporters.

Organizers and anti-fascists are calling for all those that oppose Trump’s fascist program to come out and confront him and his supporters directly, and show that they are not welcome in this area of the country, period.

Come to the event and join the anti-fascist and anti-capitalist contingent, which shows that we support the broad anti-Trump coalition and that we make up a more militant base that will do what it takes to shut down Donald Trump!

Right now the exact time and location is not available, and will likely not be released until the day before. We will share that information right as soon as it is available, and update this article. Below is the Facebook event for the counter-action organized by the coalition, and before that is a Google form that one of their organizations is using to get phone numbers to send last minute text announcements to.

RSVP on the Facebook Event

Sign the Pledge to Confront Donald Trump in Vancouver

Soldiers of Odin Plan Meet-Up in Lodi Lake, CA on April 30th

A big thanks comes to Heathens United Against Racism, who did a large amount of research for this article.

The reframing of Syrian refugee migration into Europe and the United States is critical to the messaging of the racist right-wing.  Instead of seeing these as rightful refugees of an incredibly violent, war-torn region, they are instead painted as “invading hordes.”  The dehumanization of these immigrants of color is obvious, but it is also an effort by Alt Right voices to reframe the discussion in terms of their own interpretation of pre-modern tribal norms.  The term “hordes” inspires the listener to immediately apply “barbarian” to it, which inclines them to think in an “us and them” mentality.  The idea here is to begin thinking of people of European ancestry, specifically Northern Europe, as a distinct “tribe” with its own interests.  This is opposed to the universal morality that sees actions within the same moral framework whether they happen to someone of a similar ethnic background or someone from a distant country with different customs and religious practices.  To see the refugees as “invaders” is to then see the need to protect the “tribe” from the immigrant populations that you are absolved of the responsibility to care about.

This shift in perspective plays directly in the new Soldiers of Odin phenomenon, a group of people who are trying to “defend” European nations and the U.S. from these refugees.  Playing on fallacious notion that the refugees are responsible for increased rates of crime and sexual violence, they have created an impetus that street vigilante action against non-white people is necessary.  The “Odinic” reference is also key as Odinism/Asatru, as a resurrection of the ancient Nordic pagan religion, is often interpreted racially, using the pseudoscientific concept of “meta-genetics” to say that the Nordic Gods are literally a part of the psyche of people deriving from Northern Europe.

The Soldiers of Odin were created in Kemi, Finland in October of 2015, towards the beginning of what is now phrased as the “refugee crisis.”  This was created to be a street gang that would patrol areas with asylum seekers, often appearing as a motorcycle gang or mirroring white tribalist groups like the Wolves of Vinland.  The founder of the movement, Mike Ranta, was close to the nationalist Finnish Resistant Movement, as well having a 2005 conviction for a racist attack that injured two victims.

The group’s dynamics of racial violence seem obvious, but they have grown over the last five months, creating locals all over Europe and moving into several places in the United States.  The process began by creating multiple Facebook groups, all with lax security protocols, that have open racialist understandings of who the “invaders” are.  Even with this white nationalist slant, the growth of these groups has been incredible and the numbers of people unaffiliated with the racialist movement at large has been striking.  Large numbers have been coming directly from the Odinist/Asatru movement, even beyond the explicitly racialist forms.

Among these new groups is one for Colorado, with members running the gamut.  This includes the Gothi, or clergy, of the Eagles of Yggdrasil, a folksih heathen kindred.

Canadian locals have popped up with common membership, indicating that there is likely less local organizing happening as much as a few enthusiastic metal-head racists who are creating these groups for different regions in the hopes that it will spark some growth.  The blog Anti-Racist Canada has reported on this growth, noting that the nativist Canadians United 4 Canada have begun to ally with neo-Nazis in the Soldiers of Odin project.  Charlene O’Farrell, who started that group on Facebook, has posted long diatribes in support of the Soldiers of Odin to start “protecting Canada and us(sic) women, children and even men who can’t defend themselves from being attacked or rapped(sic) if this should happen here in Canada.”

Dave FightingBack, a Facebook name, has also been a high profile member organizing in Canada, known for neo-Nazi connections, has sent back the kind words to O’Farrell.  Anti-Racist Canada further exposed several of the SOO organizers who were sporting neo-Nazi tattoos and images, Confederate battle flags, and “seig heiling” in various social media posts.  Several of them are members of known skinhead gangs, affiliated with Blood and Honor “white noise” music networks, and sporting Rock Against Communism and Totenkopf t-shirt images.  This includes one SOO organizer, Kory Knowles, who, among being friends with O’Farrell, is also friends with open Creativity Movement followers.  It would appear that, at least in Canada, the SOO movement is almost entirely run by neo-Nazi skinheads looking for a political crossover, and the crossover between them and Canadians United 4 Canada has led many open neo-Nazis to now be made admins of the Canadians United 4 Canada Facebook group.

Now the Soldiers of Odin have organized a “meet-up” event for those interested in their racist organizing project, one that is not a public event and instead a private gathering dedicated towards furthering organizing projects.  In California, a meet-up is planned for April 30th at Lodi Lake Park, in Lodi, CA.  Topher Justis, one of the U.S. Soldiers of Odin organizer who has been active online, seems to be one of the key organizers of this.

In an effort to call attention to the racial violence that is embedded in the Soldiers of Odin project, as well as to demoralize their plans, this would be a great event to have an anti-fascist contingent attempt to attend and counter-protest.  If you would like to go under the radar, you could also attend and send in a report back that could further aid anti-fascist counter organizers to give inside information on plans, specific organizers, and hard information.

Protesters Confront Portland State Students for Trump [VIDEO]

On Saturday, April 17th a group of anti-racist and anti-fascist organizers in Portland, Oregon congregated at the Urban Plaza at Portland State University. The plan was to head across campus and over to the Park Blocks to confront the Portland State Students for Trump, the aggressive student campaign in support of the Donald Trump GOP candidacy. The group was formed by the same students behind the PSU White Student Union, and has made the organization a front group for thinly veiled Alt Right racialist language.

The founding member and clear leader is Vladimir Kolychef, a small boy from Ukraine who first came to people’s attention when posting in anarchist groups on Facebook saying that he was an “anarcho-capitalist” and “race realist.” The latter term indicates that he believes in differences in racial capacity for intelligence, believing that African descended peoples to have a lower innate IQ than whites and to be more prone to criminality. A quick look at his Facebook reveals a block of white nationalist talking points and jokes, often dog whistle lingo from openly racist websites like The Right Stuff and the Daily Shoah(like calling black people ‘dindus’).

The group had recently been shut down during a meeting by the Portland State University Student Union and other allies, who overwhelmed them almost 20:1. This garnered quite a bit of media attention, all of which negated the fact that Kolychef was an open far-right nationalist with growing ties to American white nationalist organizations. Infowars, the reactionary conspiracy theory website from Alex Jones, picked up on the story quickly, interviewing Kolychef and another founding member.

This is what drew out their support on Saturday, where their crowd swelled to almost a hundred supporters, almost all from Patriot organizations and Infowars directly. They marched over to confront the counter-protesters, leading to an extended confrontation in the plaza where Trump supporters were shut down by a small army of noisemakers and loudspeaker sirens. Here the Infowars group tried to bait protesters by using openly racist and homophobic language, shoving cameras in their faces, and attempting to intimidate women of color. On their videos later, Infowars dropped all pretense and posted titles that called protesters “Trannies,” “SJWs, and “the REAL racists.” Infowars is known for being the sillier side of the Internet, yet when looking at recent articles they have allied with nationalism explicitly and are parroting the more offensive side of recent transphobic exclusionary movements. They have gone so far as to even use jokes from violently racialist website like The Right Stuff and the Daily Stormer. They have gladly become what Breitbart is to a large degree: a crossover point for nationalists into the mainstream of conservatism.

At a certain point the Trump supporters went back to the Park Blocks, marched around town, and made their way to the City Center park, Pioneer Courthouse Square. They were consistently overrun by noise from counter-protesters, but they continued to use vitriolic hate language to try and intimidate the crowd. When African descended protesters put their hands up, referencing “hands up, don’t shoot” to raise attention to the proliferation racist violence, the white protesters mocked and imitated them. They eventually tackled and held down a passerby who threw water on them, a “citizen’s arrest” that is in line with their embarrassing notion that they are the real core of America.  The admiration for Vlad was open, yet in videos where many of them are questioned about Vlad’s politics, or that of the PSU Trump group broad, most people are completely lost to their open associations and racial nationalism.

Below is a video collage that shows a bit of how the action went, as well as being an antidote to the bizarre Infowars perspective.

Making LaVoy a Martyr: Militia Movement Rallies in Oregon [Photos]

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After the Malheur stand-off resulted in one person dead and several of the original militia members facing felony charges, it seemed like the far-right militia movement that rallied around the Hammond family would take a hit.  In recent weeks we have seen them self-reviving, having rallies around Oregon(and around the country) calling for federal lands to be turned over to financial interests like mining and logging.  This has been called the great “second wave” of the militia movement, which was declared dead after a previous generation of its activity culminated in the 1995 bombing on the Oklahoma Federal Building.  Previous raids by the ATF on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco Texas and the earlier intervention on Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge had started a wave of their organizing, often being founded around deeply racist enclaves like the Christian Identity church and Posse Comitatus.

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On Saturday, March 5th, supporters of the militias and “patriots” came out in Portland and other cities on a call from the Oath Keepers.  Beyond calling for the abolition of federal land, many are calling for a prosecution of the law enforcement officers who killed LaVoy Finicum.  Many have gone online calling for a “citizen’s grand jury” where individuals are “deputized” to “indict” the people involved in Finicum’s death.  Memes, t-shirts, and signs show an LV logo to remind people of LaVoy, as well as the more common symbols associated with the movement, such as excessive number of American flags and notices including coded racial language.

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A small counter protest was organized in support of public land, such as the Malheur preserve that was disturbed by the militia occupation, as well as in support of First Nations tribal land, like the Palute tribal land that was desecrated during the stand-off.

While these coordinated rallies show a sign of both the rise of the radical wing of the “patriot” movement, it also indicates the mainstreaming of many of their ideas.  While there were regular conservative supporters that came out for the openly racist and Nativist core of the movement, there is also a public “land grab” that is happening on the state level around the country.  In Alaska, a legislative committee is going against federal law by assigning 222 million acres of public lands over to the state for dissemination.  The Outdoor Industry Association notes that public land brings in over $646 billion in “economic benefit,” not to mention 6.1 million jobs.  The attempt to take out federal land is not one that would give it further access to “the people,” but instead an ideological war that large extractionist companies would benefit from as they would gain access to land that was considered a part of the commons.  The militia camp sees it as a sign of an overreaching government, which is a point at which lacks even the most basic understandings as to what elements of the state maintain systemic oppression or enable the elements of capital.  The militia instead make up a cultural segment of a growing reactionary core that is protesting progress, whether it is environmentalism, racial multiculturalism, or a multi-religious community.

At the rally in Portland, the police prevented intermingling between the “patriots” and the counter-protesters who were calling for a support for publicly accessible land.  Masked protesters were blocked when running in to confront the militia supporters, though many were allowed to intermingle when being more unassuming in appearance.

I almost wish you guys critiquing their racism had the “privilege” to show up as a person of color,” said one counter-protester who made their way through the opposing crowd.

It’s the only time I’ve been watched so closely by people and asked in an angry tone over and over “Why are you taking pictures?”, “Who are you with?”, “Where are these going?”, “Why?”. “Why?”, “Why?”. I’ve been asked that question usually once or twice at every event I cover, but never once in an accusatory manner as if I shouldn’t be there, and NEVER as many times as it happened today, not even close. Then there was the revealing moment when they all got so happy because a black guy had waved out his window and honked as he drove by–you should have witnessed all their back-patting and pleasure and excitement that they got from getting their token PoC for the day. It was a strange reaction when he was just one of many that waved and honked with no fan-fare.

One photographer reported being shoved while taking pictures.

The militia movement was set back after their bizarre overreaching at Malheur, but it is a growing player in the far-right that anti-fascists around the country will continue to encounter.