Given the split decision in the comments over Rogue 1, we went along last night to have a look. And I have to say that watching the latest Star Wars was an endurance test, but it did not lack for instruction. The franchise is now old and stale. If you have been going along since the first of these in 1977, the point of diminishing return has long ago set in, and the latest is almost a plot-point repeat of the very first, only nowhere near as well done. But in enduring this on the last occasion I will see one of these films, I think I have understood its appeal.
It may seem perfectly normal in a galaxy far far away that an acceptable response to the police asking for identification is to shoot them dead, or that it makes perfect moral sense to attack the government’s major defence installation, but nothing is explained. [Who armed these rebels, by the way?] There is no manifesto published by these rebels, there is no obvious list of grievances that need redressing. These are just rebels against authority, and that is apparently quite enough to get the audiences in. They are just a bunch of pathological nutters who seem to like the adventure and killing people. Does it remind you of anyone in a universe not all that far away?
To find the film engaging, it seems you have to be the kind of person who finds Castro an heroic figure, the leader of a rebel army that is able to kill its way into power. It makes no difference what their principles were, it was only that they were rebels.
Rebellion may have a romantic Robin Hood association, just like righting wrongs and helping the poor. The reality is that the American Revolution turned out to be the only one in history that left its population no worse off than it began. All other rebellions and revolutions – other than perhaps those that rid a country of some foreign invader – have led to the introduction of governments worse than the ones replaced, almost invariably much worse.
But there is an infantile mindset that glories in such revolutions, and likes to think of itself as oppressed and in need of liberation. This is the left in all its different forms. That there are tyrannies in the world, where government oppression exists, is hardly the issue. That many of the fools who find themselves siding with the Rebel Alliance in Star Wars are among those being oppressed is very much in doubt. Watching the film made me more aware than usual of the mentality on the left who find catharsis and uplift in watching authority figures killed and “the establishment” torn down. It is the kind of mental sickness that has Obama supporting “the rebels” in Syria, or Castro in Cuba. It is a disease which warps individual judgement and the the desire to support “rebels” seems to have become a political poison in the way that Obama and Hillary supported the “rebels” in Libya.
Typical Hollywood of today. In the 1960s TV showed Hollywood WW2 movies that extolled patriotism.
Revolutionary chic. It’s all the rage.
The original Star Wars was based on the Vietnam war. Fairly obvious who the rebels were.
Lucas: a typical self-loathing leftoid.
I haven’t seen the film, mostly because theatre-goers these days induce a rage within me that is best left to fester and bubble until one day in the fruit and veg section at the local supermarket … Oh, and also because after The Empire Strikes Back, everything else was shite. I’m pleased no-one has yet mentioned the – shudder – prequels.
You make an interesting point which I had not thought of previously though, Steve, about the Rebel Alliance that is, and its motivations.
I draw the line at anyone dissing Chewbacca though. Some things are sacred.
It is a psychology, and it is present in a significant percentage of the population, though there is always a hard core. It is easy to find during the 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th centuries, and doubtless it always been present in the West. Likely enough it is present in all societies.
In the past, one of its manifestations was as agitation for democracy. The problem for the oppositional psychology at the moment, I suspect, is that democracy is now in place in one form or other in the West, and democratic capitalism works pretty well. Voters keep voting for more or less moderate policies. The rebels must now OPPOSE democracy for their virtue signalling and oppositional fix. How to accommodate a psychological need to oppose is an interesting problem for democracy. Otherwise democracy will be eroded by international treaties, UN-style human rights, global warming imperatives, and every other anti-democratic trick in the book.
Beating the shit out of the tribe from the next valley has been a long-standing tradition for most of human history. Justifying why is the tricky part; stolen goats, missing brides, better crops, offended gods, spurned candidates. Grand final football teams pretending to be heroic gladiators always make me laugh, but their appeal is obviously widespread and primal.
The original Star Wars was a low budget rehash of many classic film memes including spaghetti westerns. Agree that it ran out of puff many sequels and galaxys ago.
Isn’t Brexit, Hanson and Trump a rebellion against the establishment?
OhMyFunkyGecko. I’m still thinking about what you wrote Steve, and my most treasured childhood fantasies are disintegrating. Thanks for that.
How to accommodate a psychological need to oppose is an interesting problem for democracy.
Persuade people that democracy is broken (other people get more than you, is that fair?), or break it (indirectly, i.e. get others to undermine its institutions), then put yourself forward as the only person/organisation that can fix it. Sometimes it is easier (for those who want power/control) to raze something to the ground and build on the ashes, than patch up the minor scratches and daily-use dents.
Not buying it. Unless Jane Fonda was Robert Mc Namara’s daughter.
Umm…the Empire were prepared to BLOW UP AN ENTIRE PLANET TO PROVE A POINT.
The Star Wars prequel trilogy had some clever comments about the corruption of the establishment that was lost on people who thought it was all about Bush. So if Lucas wrote the prequels in 1999 before 9/11 and the Iraq War. Well I expect he also bet on the Cubs, Trump and Cavs.
You know what went wrong with Star Wars?
Friggin’
Disney bought it out.
That makes one think about a few things that happened in WWII.
The Empire were Krauts who spoke with British received accents.
They were not Yanks.
Alderan played no part in the fight.
Disney ruined Star Wars. Star Wars not part of a Jane Fonda/COMINTERN plan to shame the US out of the Cold War.
Luke Skywalker would be like your all American hero.
Umm…the Empire were prepared to BLOW UP AN ENTIRE PLANET TO PROVE A POINT.
Trump Doctrine.
Oh Steve. You sound like the Christmas roast has backed you up somewhat.
Mylanta for the indigestion, and try drinking warm water for the other end.
It’s just a Star Wars moofie. Hal Colebatch has written at length on the positive good-v-evil aspects of this franchise.
And who armed these rebels? It’s obvious. It was the United Federation of Planets, from the parallel Star Trek universe.
Or is Star Wars just a dream; a hallucination by Indiana Jones when drugged by native Amazonians on one of his less successful quests?
I’m with you, Steve. I’ve never seen a Star Wars film and yet I don’t feel any the poorer for it.
So now and forever I will be unable to suspend disbelief and just enjoy a bit of senseless, harmless, juvenile, cowdys and injuns type fun. Sure, there’s always some subtle (or not), subliminal (or not) “moralising” and “messaging” in every fillum, but for heaven’s sake…. The original Star Wars was just bloody good fun, as were its sequels. The prequels were just bloody boring nonsense, and Rogue 1 comes somewhere in between. Give me the simple goodies vs baddies stories any day.
Good post Steve. For my part I saw Rogue One and my assessment of it is the same as most movies these days: amazing acting, great sound and fantastic special effects. The only thing missing is a story. Most movies today look and sound amazing but are written like some kid posting internet fan-fiction. It’s just a mess of a movie.
Your other point re no clear point to the Rebellion is also interesting in that none of the Star Wars movies really articulate why the Empire is evil and why the Rebellion is good and this is also evident in lots of other franchises from Game of Thrones to Hunger Games. Everyone is a bad guy to one degree or another.
I think this is a reflection of most writers knowing on some level that dictatorship is bad but at the same time raised on generations of leftist, collectivist ethics, they just can’t bring themselves to see the alternative (freedom, prosperity, capitalism, the existence of some people who are richer than others) as the “good” alternative. They think this is evil too. So they are stuck writing morally grey characters at best or outright morality/ethic free stories completely, which is why writing is just so shit in all movies and most shows these days.
I agree with mizaris, even though I have carefully rigged Malotto to make sure she doesn’t win it.
The reality is that the American Revolution turned out to be the only one in history that left its population no worse off than it began.
There was quite a bit of “worse off” for those who either sided with the English or were seen as not supportive enough of the revolution.
(note, this is NPR so its self hating much like their ABC)
But there was a lot of bloodshed, and particularly in the South. And gangs of revolutionaries, gangs of loyalists, would attack each other, go to each other’s plantations. In fact, some of the big battles in the South happened after the surrender at Yorktown.
So, what all of this means is that there was a climate of violence and a climate of fear for many loyalists. And it meant that when the peace negotiations were going on, they were really concerned about what kinds of protections they might have in the new United States. And during this period, many of them felt that the protections that the U.S. was offering were not promises that they could really get behind.
And so, when the British pulled out in city after city in the United States, up to tens of thousands of loyalists sometimes went with the retreating army to Britain and other parts of the British Empire.
I prefer this to the prequels.
I haven’t watched the two most recent Star Wars movies although R1 does tempt me.
When it comes to Science Fiction I prefer Babylon 5.
Original Star Wars was just a 1950s serial turned into a movie much like Republic Pictures did.
Science fiction? Forbidden Planet!
I dunno.
I saw that logo for the rebels and immediately thought it was a new brand of Cola.
Following on from tfm re ‘worse off’, the French would argue that the Bastille etc was one bonne idee and the Brits still regard 1688 as the Glorious Revolution. The slaves in America weren’t that thrilled either. That’s why so many went to Canada, a common theme in US history.
Yeah some great war movies made back in the day.
The other problem with today’s action flicks is the ubiquitous female action star. What a load of shit.
You have to think of the Empire as “Nazis in space.”
https://youtu.be/bsb9ZTmbSKQ
“The reality is that the American Revolution turned out to be the only one in history that left its population no worse off than it began.”
Not exactly.
Don’t forget the Glorious Revolution of 1688 which resulted in William of Orange ascending the English throne. There was little bloodshed and the overthrow of James II led to the Bill of Rights, maritime domination by the Royal Navy, the end of the Anglo-Dutch war and a period of unprecedented economic growth which led to Britain dominating half of the globe.
The Glorious Revolution did not only leave the British people better off, it set them up for the following two centuries.
Ray
Charles II had a economically successful restoration, James II didn’t blow up the economy or exploration either.
I agree with mizaris, even though I have carefully rigged Malotto to make sure she doesn’t win it.
Scoundrel, rapscallion!!!! But…aha… foiled!! I have kept a copy of the page with my prediction because…oldtimers.
How ‘Star Wars’ was secretly George Lucas’ Vietnam protest
Aside from all the immediate adverse effects on loyalists and others out of favour with the rebels, it’s now obvious that the major disadvantageous consequence of the American Revolution that reverberates to this day has been the creation of an elected executive Presidency. With vanishingly rare exceptions, likeky to become even rarer still in this modern world, the American system is virtually guaranteed to ensure that half the population will despise any given incumbent. That alone is one major way Americans are worse off than their pre-revolutionary ancestors. (Most of them will not agree, but then most of them blindly voted for either Hillary or non-Hillary, something they could have avoided if only they’d had the patience to put up with the British Monarchy for a few more generations. Like us. Oh, wait…..
“Although there are parallels between Emperor Palpatine and dictators such as Hitler and Napoleon Bonaparte, the direct inspiration for the saga’s evil antagonist was actually an American president. According to J.W. Rinzler’s “The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi,” when asked if Emperor Palpatine was a Jedi during a 1981 story conference, Lucas responded, “No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy.” In a 2005 interview published in the Chicago Tribune, Lucas said he originally conceived “Star Wars” as a reaction to Nixon’s presidency. “It was really about the Vietnam War, and that was the period where Nixon was trying to run for a [second] term, which got me to thinking historically about how do democracies get turned into dictatorships? Because the democracies aren’t overthrown; they’re given away.”
They kept the same theme in Rogue One
How Rogue One Was Inspired by the Vietnam War
May be the hysteria surrounding Trumps election to the White House can be attributed to people who may not be happy to see their words and actions seeing the light of day ,made public and being held to account.
Comments at Zippy’s link seem unpersuaded by Lucas’ declaring the original was about Vietnam – some noting that Lucas has a habit of re-visiting and re-inventing when it comes to his movies.
For my part I took the Empire as being the Nazis:
1) The uniforms of the officers looked Nazi-sequel;
2) the rebellion was scattered within the Empire, not external to it;
3) The Empire seemed an ever present malign intrusiveness that turn to violence at the most benign provocation – as it was in occupied Europe
4) The Empire and the Rebels had similar weapons but the Empire went for wonder-weapons. (Death Star, V2s etc)
Nazi-esque!!!
Get a grip Steve. It’s just a movie.
Revolution, always bad? As said above, the Glorious Revolution, leading to and probably a requirement for the Industrial Revolution. Is defending oneself against violence and despotism such a bad thing?
Lurker, I agree 100 percent on Babylon 5. Fresh, original and we’ll written. I would love to see J. Michael Stravinsky write a new Sci Fi movie series.
There is a deleted scene in the original Star Wars movie where one of Luke’s friends makes a comment to the effect of “They’ve already started nationalising commerce in the central systems. It won’t be long before your uncle’s just a tenant farmer, slaving for the greater glory of the Empire.”
https://youtu.be/f00IkrWvur4?t=248
How could it be any question what side Cats are on?
Star Wars, meh.
Saw the original. Can’t be bothered with the rest.
Not a patch on Firefly/Serenity.
Star Wars is clearly against centralisation. What “TMG” posted really skewers this “Lucas is a commie” bull.
Zippy old mate, you’re off you’re head. He protested about Vietnam two years after it was over?
You need to stop believing everything you read.
Obviously you didn’t read the links dot.
“Even before he made “Star Wars,” he wanted to make a documentary-style antiwar film on Vietnam that was to be called, in a title devised by his friend John Milius, “Apocalypse Now.” (The project passed on to another Lucas compadre, Francis Ford Coppola, who had given Lucas his first movie job working on the musical “Finian’s Rainbow.”)
Obviously you can’t see that Star Wars and Apocalypse Now are completely different movies.
so you reckon it’s Fake News™ dot?
Yes … or, the kind of person who’s seen A New Hope, which would have provided context for the rest of the series.
I haven’t seen Rogue One yet (I’ll probably wait until it comes to Foxtel), but, good God, if I couldn’t separate politics from entertainment I’d go completely insane. Frankly, if Steve Kates really thinks the Empire are the good guys, the Rebel Alliance is like an intergalactic ISIS and the Death Star is merely a “defence installation,” he’s probably halfway there.
There you go Zippy. There are absolutely no parallels between the Vietnam War and Star Wars.
If Lucas intended to do so with Star Wars, he failed so miserably that it just did not live up to his goal, and became something completely different.
In addition to protecting the Galaxy from the terrorist band known as the “Rebel Alliance”, just think of the gigantic Keynesian stimulus the Empire provided by building the Death Star.
Firmus Piett
Admiral
By the way, why do people want to watch “patriotic” war movies? For me, the great ones are those that showcase the reality of war, the hardship and courage of those on the front line, and the often bone-headed decisions their superiors make. Such as: A Bridge Too Far, Paths of Glory, Das Boot, Stalingrad, Letters From Iwo Jima.
But if people want old-fashioned patriotism, well, Hollywood hasn’t stopped providing it. Example: last year’s movie, Fury. Had an ending in which one American tank crew massacre endless waves of supposedly elite SS grenadiers. Very realistic. *cough*
Luke Skywalker was based on Paul Krugman and the battle of Yavin was one giant broken window.
Hey Sam how ya doing?
You know nothing, Steve Kates.
Seriously, that’s a very stupid set of things you just said. The Empire blows up an entire city in the movie! And no, Hiroshima is not analogous. The Rebellion is nowhere near as threatening as the Axis powers were, you could fit their entire army in a basketball court.
You don’t fix ISIS by nuking Baghdad.
This is a preview of the colossally stupid shit Trump is going to do, and the inane justifications he is going to use to excuse using the coercive power of the state to deny citizens liberty. You lot will cheer him on whatever he does, because it’s not your freedom being removed. Useful idiots.
Well, well, well!
I shall have my secretary turn away all further applicants for the role of Christmas Grinch 2016 as the position has obviously just been quite ably filled by Steve!
How about that UK-USA alliance in WW2 eh? Killing its way into power. If only they’d just sat at home and let the Nazis take over Europe. I mean Europe “is such a long way from here” after all. And if you believe that the Allies’ methods were justified in WW2 then you are the sort of “ends justifies the means” type that is quite happy to accept a group “killing their way to power” as long as they have the right manifesto with the right principles. Which you apparently do…
This movie was not made in a cultural vacuum and it was never intended to be a completely standalone movie. (proof: it mentions and shows the Force without anyone introducing it. More proof: The subtitle of the movie is that it is *a* Star Wars Story, one of many.) It is taken for granted that you have seen the Empire behave in nasty ways in the other main episode movies.
Examples:
• Palpatine created the events that led to the war which allowed him to take power in the first place. The wartime powers granted to him were based on a lie, so his powers over government were illegitimate from day 1. The deaths of millions were a resume filler for him. He fomented and paid for that whole war simply for his own personal political ambitions, which is the sort of thing someone like Hillary Clinton would do. Still want to say the rebels are the bad side?
• The Empire’s staff retention policies include extortion and murder of staff family members, as Galen found out. What a respectable and wholly beneficent organisation that Steve would be happy to work for!
• Emperor Palpatine dissolved the Imperial Senate and gave power to the regional governors, ending any last pretense of democracy in the Empire. The rebels are at the very least fighting for democracy, but Steve doesn’t mind tyrannical dictators.
• Through all movies the bounty hunters are the only non-human lifeforms ever depicted working for the Empire, all their other officials and staff are human, which implies the Empire is racist. Are you in favour of rascism, Steve, or will you argue that humans are uniquely qualified for Empire jobs?
• The Empire destroyed a peaceful planet because it was Leia’s home planet and so that “fear [of this battle station] will keep the local systems in line”, which is just the sort of absence of political solutions that makes violent solutions through rebellion even more likely.
• The imperial “police”, as you so euphemistically call the stormtroopers, killed a bunch of innocent Jawas on Tattoine and then blamed the attack on the Sandpeople. It sounds like the sort of thing Castro actually did. If that’s within the rule of law it is presumably the sort of law that Steve would never want to rebel against!
• THE ECONOMIC ARGUMENT: The only way Han Solo was able to make money through smuggling is because of the enormous number of regulations imposed by the Empire, which suppresses supply, raises the price, and makes crime profitable. If the Empire established a free market then Han Solo would be out of business. But Steve is really a closet Keynesian interventionist which is why he likes the Empire just fine. ]:-)
• Han Solo is tortured by the Empire guards without the guards ever actually asking him any questions. The rebel alliance (of which Saw Grennar is not a member) obtains information by spying and from defectors, not by torture. But you think the rebels are the greater evil?
• Palpatine’s imperial guards are basically wearing burkas which, aside from the possible religious connotation, is at least a fashion crime of the highest order.
• In Rogue One the Empire destroys the beautiful ancient sculptures of a sacred Jedi temple, original artworks of a clan who fostered peace and wisdom throughout the galaxy. Putting the burkas and their destruction of religious artworks together, who does that remind you of? Yep. Obviously Steve supports Al Qaeda, sees nothing wrong with them, sees “no obvious list of grievances that need redressing.”
The above list barely scratches the surface as it is canon only and does not even venture into the list of grievances that can be obtained from the Star Wars Legends Expanded Universe.
For how many days and in how many ways will the Cat’s new Grinch be wrong about the righteousness of the Galactic Empire? Don’t worry, I’m sure it will all be forgotten in the new year festivities.
And, yes, it’s just a movie, for entertainment, it’s a not a mandatory civics class.
Pah, the above are all just Rebel lies.
As Alderaan truthers have established, the destruction of Alderaan was a false-flag operation carried out by the Rebels themselves to provide propaganda material for their terrorist campaign.
When the “Death Star” as some people call it — its correct name is Peace Station Alpha — approached the Planet of Yavin, carrying a human rights delegation seeking to find out the truth about Alderaan, it was viciously attacked by Rebel war machines, and destroyed by a deliberate flaw implanted by a traitor.
Andrew, please report to your nearest stormtrooper outpost. We’ll book you in for a session with an enforcer droid, to correct your misapprehensions.
My God, some take their movies really seriously.
Still shifting blame for your errors, Admiral Piett?
Clouded your mind, the Dark side has. Not ready for the burden were you.
States rights!
Make Empire Great Again!
“What’s the point of having nukes if you’re not going to use them?”
35% tariffs!
LOL.
I gave up after 3 and 1. Today’s rebels have no agenda just to get into power and we have made grave mistakes in supporting them starting with the betrayal of the Shah of Persia.
Trigger warning: Serious commentary, rather than light-hearted frivolity, follows…
The trouble with all sci-fi and action plots (in whatever form: film, literature, TV) is that they can’t sustain the franchise unless they adopt a strict dualism between the goodies and baddies.
The goodies must fight for some good “cause” (we need heroes, of course) and they must win, against mighty odds – just barely. But the baddies must still represent a threat (Darth Vader spins off into the nether reaches of the galaxy), or there won’t be a sequel.
The same problem surfaces in Doctor Who. Despite his time travel ability, he never seems to be able to totally eliminate those pesky Daleks, the Cybermen or others with malevolent intent.
And again in Star Trek, Mad Max, Batman/Superman and any number of other similar types – even the execrable “Lost in Space”.
And Firefly mixes the good and evil within the key characters, so the struggle is internalised. But it is never resolved.
However, whilst we can enjoy the acting (sometimes), marvel at the effects and either gush over or gag at the romances, we all long for a more satisfying plot line where good finally and decisively triumphs over evil.
But Hollywood can’t deliver.