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Deep State (Dagmar #2)

by Walter Jon Williams (Goodreads Author)

3.64 · Rating Details · 474 Ratings · 71 Reviews

In THIS IS NOT A GAME, Dagmar found that the Alternate Reality Game she was writing was being manipulated by a killer, and in her own turn manipulated the game players in order to solve mysteries and unmask the villain. In the sequel DEEP STATE, that progression continues. Once again, the boundaries between game and reality are breached, and Dagmar finds herself using game ...more

Published (first published January 1st 2011)

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Mar 17, 2013 Keith rated it liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: fiction, crime-thriller, ebooks, 2013

Somewhat like William Gibson with his Blue Ant series Walter Jon Williams recently began exploring more contemporary environments with his ongoing Dagmar Shaw series. Unlike Gibson, however, Williams depicts a high-stakes milieu more compatible with the techno-thriller genre. Deep State is the second Dagmar Shaw novel and quite frankly needs to be read after the first book, This Is Not A Game. There's a background in the first that plays out in the second.
Dagmar owns Great Big Idea, a company t

Somewhat like William Gibson with his Blue Ant series Walter Jon Williams recently began exploring more contemporary environments with his ongoing Dagmar Shaw series. Unlike Gibson, however, Williams depicts a high-stakes milieu more compatible with the techno-thriller genre. Deep State is the second Dagmar Shaw novel and quite frankly needs to be read after the first book, This Is Not A Game. There's a background in the first that plays out in the second.
Dagmar owns Great Big Idea, a company that creates alternate reality games. In this one, after successfully running a game promoting the new James Bond movie she's hired by a shadowy group to, essentially, game a revolution. Turkey has once again been seized by the generals and Dagmar, no fan of despotism, signs on to use ARG fundamentals to bring about a democratic uprising. Coming out, as it did, before the Arab Spring, which was partly a social media uprising, this book is remarkably prescient.

Alternating between a control room on Cyprus and events in Turkish cities the book reflects that technological disconnect that can happen when we observe action at a distance. Needless to say there are plenty of disconnects between the plan and reality. My favorite occurs when there is an Internet shutdown and the hackers in Dagmar's group resurrect MS-DOS protocols to get around the problem. The final third of the book resembles This Is Not a Game with it's action emphasis. The first book crackles along more efficiently but this one certainly has its moments. The idea that undergirds the action, an open-source social media revolution, is fascinating and Williams generally pulls it off in his usual style.

Parenthetically, Deep State is the thirteenth book of Walter Jon Williams that I've read. I gotta say that I've enjoyed them all and always wonder if he's ever going to win a Hugo. From the cyberpunk of Voice in the Whirlwind to the expansive space opera of the Dread Empire's Fall series he's covered a lot of ground. I think that the two book series Metropolitan and City on Fire is still among the best contemporary sf around.

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Apr 01, 2011 John Carter McKnight rated it it was amazing

Williams should be the most famous thriller writer in the world right now, with his novel about both popular uprisings in Islamic countries and gamification. Simple premise: what if the US government hired an alternate-reality games designer to astroturf a revolution? What could possibly go wrong?

Deep State is thriller writing at its finest: tight, fast-paced, suspenseful, clever, with strongly sketched characters. Taking Hitchcock's advice, Williams introduces his one implausible thing up front ...more

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Apr 18, 2011 Dan rated it really liked it

Shelves: science-fiction, e-books

If I had started reading this book the same week the uprisings started in Egypt, I would have had a hard time distinguishing between the news and this novel. Mr. Williams should be glad this was published prior to the spreading unrest, lest he be charged with mere conspiracy mongering.

I am not one who especially likes series with a recurring hero/heroine, but Dagmar Shaw is pleasantly believable: flawed without being overwrought and angst-ridden, capable without being a Mary Sue, concerned about

...more

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Jan 20, 2011 Lis Carey rated it it was amazing

Shelves: f-sf, favorites

Dagmar Shaw is running an Augmented Reality Game, an ARG, in Turkey to promote the latest James Bond film, Stunrunner. She's not happy about being in Turkey, where a military junta has recently seized power, because she's had some seriously unpleasant experiences with military governments in the past, but, really, what can go wrong? Turkey is benefiting from the positive PR and the increase in tourism, and the generals are very pleased by that. Her company, Great Big Idea, is being very well pai Dagmar Shaw is running an Augmented Reality Game, an ARG, in Turkey to promote the latest James Bond film, Stunrunner. She's not happy about being in Turkey, where a military junta has recently seized power, because she's had some seriously unpleasant experiences with military governments in the past, but, really, what can go wrong? Turkey is benefiting from the positive PR and the increase in tourism, and the generals are very pleased by that. Her company, Great Big Idea, is being very well paid by the movie promoters.

And then Dagmar and some of her people are invited to meet the generals, and Dagmar accidentally offends the head of the junta, General Bozbeyli.

Dagmar, her immediate boss Lincoln, and her top on-site American and Turkish employees, have to evade the junta while staging the last live event of the ARG--and that means moving the live event at very short notice. Dagmar and her team work out a way to do it, wrap up the game, and head home.

But before she leaves, Lincoln offers her a new job. Lincoln, it turns out, works for the US government and is in Special Ops. The current Turkish junta, unlike previous ones, is not interested in restoring a secular state and then turning the government back to democracy; they're in it for the money. Lincoln wants to use Dagmar's game-running skills to peacefully destabilize the current Turkish regime and force a return to democracy.

Working from a British military base on Cyprus, Dagmar and her team--Turks Ismet, Tuna, and Refet; Americans Judy, Lloyd, Lola, Magnus, and Byron--set to work, running an Augmented Reality Game with the very real-world goal of bringing down a government. Flash crowds form in places where it's hard for the police to respond quickly, and melt away before they can react. They wear scarves, carry towels, postcards, DVDs, flowers--things that look like they have meaning but really only have the purpose of identifying participants in the flash crowds. It's all going well, and the regime is looking more and more foolish and impotent.

Then demonstrations start that aren't planned by Dagmar and her crew, and the astroturf revolution is becoming a genuinely grassroots one, and shortly after that, the regime feels threatened enough to deploy a secret weapon that Lincoln helped create, years earlier--the High Zap. It allows the power that has it to selectively take down the internet--in fact, anything that relies on TCP/IP protocols--and Turkey has it because two agents were deployed to use it against Syria right before the Turkish coup, and the generals wound up in possession of the laptop containing it.

Dagmar and her friends find themselves in a wild contest to survive, defeat the High Zap which now threatens the economic stability of the world, and maybe even achieve their original goal, as some of them are killed, some revealed to be traitors, and Lincoln and their government resources and status are pulled because Lincoln's plan has gone so badly wrong.

It's an exciting mix of spy thriller, adventure, and romance, and as is typical of Williams, it's all extremely well-done.

Highly recommended.

I received a free electronic galley of this book from the publisher via NetGalley.
...more

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Apr 05, 2013 Kristin rated it liked it

Shelves: science-fiction, e-book

This was book 2 in the Dagmar series. Reading book one is a must.

This read a bit like a travelogue and history of Turkey which I thought straddled the line between interesting and annoying. It was interesting in that I knew the author visited Turkey quite some time back and blogged about it. It was annoying in that it made aspects of the story read like an organized bus tour. “And on your right, Ataturk Park….”

Now the reality of the political aspects of the book were a bit scary - the use of soc ...more

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Feb 21, 2011 Chris rated it really liked it

Shelves: fiction, alternate-reality-games

Walter Jon williams is the cure for the sci-fi complexity that sometimes plagues the genre. Don't get me wrong I like the pure science writing as much as anyone, but sometimes I want a good mix of science and action. Here we have that great mix.

This is the second novel in the Dagmar series. With what Dagmar went through in the last book I wondered how much more the author could throw at a person with out breaking. This is the crux of the whole story. Dagmar dealing with issues from the last nov ...more

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Apr 07, 2015 Brian Palmer rated it really liked it

There would be moments of confusion if you hadn't read the prior book (which I think probably is a notch above this one), but this is is complete and standalone: a thriller where Dagmar Shaw, owner (and lead designer) of a company that develops "augmented reality games", shifts from helping market a James Bond movie to actually intentionally dealing with international politics.

It's really not clear *why* she's doing this, as she's still traumatized by the events of the first book (and there are ...more

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Mar 10, 2014 Jon rated it really liked it

This was pretty similar to the first book, enough that I didn't enjoy it as much. I mean, of course you want a sequel to be similar, but you still want it to be surprising. There were some surprises in this book, and the characters and writing were as good as the first, but the story was, I felt, a little *too* similar to the first. Still enjoyable, but not to the same extent as This Is Not a Game

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Aug 28, 2013 Steven Cole rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

This is the second book in Williams' stories of Dagmar Shaw, game designer.

I've got to admit to a love of game designer protagonists, for sure, as that's where my own career started... Dagmar Shaw designs experiences known as Augmented Reality Games (ARGs), where the "game" contacts players through real-world systems (like email and phones, realistic looking websites, and even things like billboards for those in the know).

Williams conjectures that such a game will cause a kind of "group mind" t ...more

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Apr 25, 2011 Alexandra rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: read-in-2011

Dagmar Shaw is a game designer, but her games are way more interesting than any MMORPG that exists today. I never entirely came to grips with what Alternate Reality Games actually entail, but it has players follow a story, interpret clues online, and it sometimes has real-world connections. The story opens with Dagmar Shaw designing a James Bond movie tin-in game that sees some players going to Turkey to actually follow some of the action in real life, while tens of thousands of others follow th
Dagmar Shaw is a game designer, but her games are way more interesting than any MMORPG that exists today. I never entirely came to grips with what Alternate Reality Games actually entail, but it has players follow a story, interpret clues online, and it sometimes has real-world connections. The story opens with Dagmar Shaw designing a James Bond movie tin-in game that sees some players going to Turkey to actually follow some of the action in real life, while tens of thousands of others follow the video and other media Dagmar and her employees upload to the web. She runs a successful game, and is then recruited by a US - ah - security specialist to do some interesting things in Turkey. Which she does. Things do not go entirely to plan, not unexpectedly.

It's interesting coming to Deep State after having read The Dervish House. Both are set in Turkey, but that's about where the similarities end. The plots are entirely different, and Deep State isn't as futuristic as Dervish House. More interestingly, where McDonald made almost all of his characters Turkish, and events happen exclusively in Istanbul with little reference to the outside world, Williams has only a few Turkish characters, and the plot revolves around foreigners getting themselves involved in Turkish politics. Williams does seem to know Istanbul, but he doesn't evince quite the same love for the country as McDonald; and Turkey is not of the same fundamental importance to Williams as it was to McDonald. Deep State could as easily be set almost anywhere but Western Europe, I think. Turkey, although quite well realised, is not irreplaceable.

This is, it turns out, the second book about the main character here, Dagmar. She has a few flashbacks to the events of the first, This is Not a Game, and there are a few aspects of her character that are not entirely explicable but would be, I think, with knowledge of earlier events. However, it does stand alone fairly well.

The story is well-paced. The opening, with the James Bond game, is as exciting as it should be. There are lulls in the action for character development, the action is spread over a few different characters, and it wraps up nicely. I enjoyed the politics, although I'm not au fait enough with the current Turkish situation to know whether it is completely believable or not. The characters are not the most well-developed I've ever read, but they were more than sufficient to carry the plot. Dagmar herself is quite complex enough to be interesting; she had a difficult childhood and still suffers from the aftereffects of the events of the first book. These make her more than simply another game designer, as well as more than simply a cipher. Her boss is appropriately mysterious, while the members of her team are varied enough to provide interesting interactions. I really enjoyed the snippets of online discussion that were included; it was a nice touch. Overall the book could have done with a few more female characters; given that most of them are computer-types of one sort or another, there's not even the (weak and laughable) excuse of needing men to do the action stuff. There were, I think, only three female characters, and one of them was almost incidental. This was my main disappointment with the novel.

Aside from the plot and the characters, the really cool part of the book - and one that, I must admit, I probably didn't appreciate as fully as I might have - was the tech side. The creation of the ARG by Dagmar and her team, the way in which they manipulate video, the technology they use to keep track of everything: very, very cool.

Deep State is immensely enjoyable. I have put the first book on my to-read list, and expect that there will be a third at some time which I will definitely be seeking out. ...more

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Jul 19, 2013 Joe Robles rated it really liked it

A revolution in a middle eastern country helped by the Internet. You know, science fiction. Love the character of Dagmar, and how she was affected by the events of the first book. Too often authors leave their characters with little to no emotional baggage. As if the deaths of friends, and their own near death experiences, leave them untouched. Most authors would include a line or two about missing their friends, but Walter Jon Williams gives Dagmar PTSD. Every decision she makes in this book is ...more

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May 19, 2012 Mike rated it really liked it

Like the first book in the Dagmar series (This is Not a Game), and like some of William Gibson's recent stuff, this is not so much science fiction as technothriller - our present-day world, or maybe one a couple of years in the future, already being so technological that it's like a science fiction setting.

I don't usually read thrillers, so I don't know what they're like, but I suspect that the protagonists usually feel more on top of things than the unfortunate Dagmar. Out of her depth, lacking ...more

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Dec 29, 2012 Monique rated it liked it

This was a fast read featuring the main character from This is not a Game. I read that book quite a while ago, so not only did I struggle to remember relevant details, but I actually got my wires crossed with Reamde and Moxyland characters. A personal problem that I hope won't affect other readers. The plot, citizens rising up in revolution against dictators, was pretty topical given the recent Arab Spring events, and made me see all of that in a different light, or at least in the light of vari ...more

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Nov 26, 2012 Bradley rated it it was ok · review of another edition

Shelves: ebook, thriller

In This Is Not A Game , Walter Jon Williams introduced readers to Dagmar Shaw, the head of Great Big Idea, a fictional company dedicated to producing and directing alternate-reality-games, or ARG, for short. Ms. Shaw returns in Deep State, and Walter Jon Williams spins another tale of intrigue, though one decidedly less interesting than the first outing.

Synopsis for Deep State :

By day Dagmar Shaw orchestrates vast games with millions of players spanning continents. By night, she tries to forge

By day Dagmar Shaw orchestrates vast games with millions of players spanning continents. By night, she tries to forget the sound of a city collapsing in flames around her. She tries to forget the faces of her friends as they died in front of her. She tries to forget the blood on her own hands.

But then an old friend approaches Dagmar with a project. The project he pitches is so insane and so ambitious, she can’t possibly say no. But this new venture will lead her from the world of alternate-reality gaming to one even more complex. A world in which the players are soldiers and spies and the name of the game is survival.

Following events of This Is Not A Game, Dagmar suffers from hallucinations and nightmares about her experiences in the previous novel, which makes her character ultimately believable and flawed. Unfortunately, Dagmar is the only character to truly shine in the novel, as most of the other characters feel particularly flat. Lincoln, aka Chatsworth, is possibly the only other truly interesting character, though with all of the information he withholds from Dagmar throughout the book, readers are left wondering exactly who this man is, and what's he's not saying.

Williams is obviously proficient with computers, as evidenced by the frequent and long descriptions of technology, filled with computer jargon. Though accurate, these scenes rarely provide actual benefit to the story, and serve as page-filler for the most part.

The novel is split into two sections, which feel very much different--almost like two separate novels. The first section introduces readers to Dagmar once again, and just what it is that she does for a living. It also introduces the antagonist of the novel, General Bozbeyli, the military leader of Turkey. Williams spends a lot of time in Dagmar's head, describing her hesitations about the job, her love life, and her seemingly increasing mental instability. Readers never get into another character's head, which may actually be a disadvantage, as some of the more intriguing characters may have added some variety to the story. Instead, Dagmar dominates, and becomes less likeable, overall.

Though the first section of the book reads fairly well, it's pretty much downhill from there. Far from a page-turner, and much less enjoyable than it's predecessor, Deep State never lives up to its promise. The second section of the book is dull and tedious, taking place mostly in a secluded office space, never providing much in the way of excitement. Though there are a couple twists and turns in the story, they're much too subdued, and lend little to liven up the plot. The climax of the novel, involving shootouts, down-to-the-wire timing, and escaping from murderous thugs sounds more exciting here than the novel delivers. It's a plodding example of storytelling, and fails to deliver at nearly every level.

Williams has written excellent novels in the past, so it's a shame that Deep State delivers such a poor story. ...more

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Jul 13, 2011 Alan rated it liked it · review of another edition

Recommends it for: Players of games

Recommended to Alan by: Previous work

I found this sequel to This Is Not A Game a little hard to get into, even though I'd read the first one fairly recently... even with that boost, it took me awhile to get back up to speed. So be warned; familiarity with the milieu is assumed. However, once events get rolling, they really get rolling—it may not look like it at first, but Williams knows how to write a taut thriller.

Dagmar Shaw, CEO and prime mover for Great Big Idea, the firm that brought augmented reality games (ARGs) to mass appe ...more

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Apr 25, 2012 Michael Hirsch rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: science-fiction

Why is it that almost every book I've really liked lately are about computer and role playing games in some way? It's particularly funny because I don't like computer games or RPGs. I guess I like them in abstract, I've just never found one that I enjoyed in reality.

Anyway, this one is about Dagmar, a women who produced Alternate Reality Games--games that take place in the real world. She lays out clues and hires actors to play a few roles, but the rest of the game is played by the players who h ...more

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Jul 22, 2013 Brick rated it really liked it

Shelves: technothrillers, scifi, location-thriller, political-mystery

Another fun read, featuring Alternative Reality Game (ARG) creator, Dagmar, and her team. This is the second in the series, and is best read after the first, This Is Not A Game, although not required, it will add to your understanding and enjoyment. Very interesting to contrast what is going on in this story, where an ARG staged on location with ARG tourists and remote participants searching for clues in Turkey acts as a compelling promotion for a new James Bond thriller, leading to follow-on ac ...more

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May 27, 2011 Gretchen rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Recommended to Gretchen by: Carl Rigney

I don't think this book would make a lot of sense without having first read This Is Not a Game, but it's a very satisfying sequel. I liked This Is Not a Game better in many ways because of its tighter focus on ARGs and the interesting implications of the Group Mind. However, one major strength of Deep State was that events which occurred in the first book still had ongoing impact as more than merely plot points; so many books with action have characters that just shrug off the trauma and move on ...more

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May 22, 2011 Mark rated it liked it · review of another edition

The idea that Internet memes could influence a dissatisfied populace to demonstrate, riot, and then overthrow their government is a powerful one. The idea that another government could use these to induce revolution is also interesting and plausible. You can see why totalitarian regimes resist the internet and social networking.

Williams explores all of these ideas in Deep State. I was a huge fan of the first book in this series, This Is Not A Game, because I loved how it blended physical and vir ...more

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Feb 28, 2014 Joel Finkle rated it it was amazing

Shelves: sf

Better than "This Is Not a Game," this sequel hits all the marks of spy thriller, computer hacking (without the angst of cyberpunk), puzzle-based mystery, and more. It's a good companion to books of Charles Stross (Rule 34) and Neal Stephenson (Reamde), with near-future SF, spy games and a well-run con. I only wish I was more of a crossword puzzle geek, there are several chapters with subheads that are cryptic crossword clues such as "Deranged Scot Sum Ammounts to Local Habits."

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Apr 28, 2012 Laz the Sailor rated it really liked it

Shelves: scifi

This is a sequel to This Is Not a Game, and you would expect, the tech foundations are more mature and the character development is a bit deeper than in the first book. Still, it's a logical extension to Dagmar's team of "game writers" who combine online social media with flash mobs and scavenger hunts to actually influence real-world politics. By selecting Turkey as the nation in turmoil, WJW gets to play with all the Middle Eastern politics, add in Slavic confusion, and the US and British spy ...more

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Mar 30, 2011 Carl rated it really liked it

This novel is closer to the book I wanted This Is Not a Game to be, and very relevant to today's headlines about social-media enabled unrest, but could have used more insight about open source warfare from John Robb's excellent nonfiction Brave New War: The Next Stage of Terrorism and the End of Globalization, and a better understanding of network protocols. But it was still enjoyable and thought-provoking.

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Apr 24, 2014 Akemi Joy rated it liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: series-i-m-currently-reading

I didn't enjoy it as much as This Is Not a Game. I think it was a good sequel. I don't think I liked that it got more "real" than the first one. I still want to get to know Dagmar better and see what happens to her.

Not sure if it was intentional, but I felt a lot more paranoid while reading this. It kept me on my toes trying to think about who Dagmar could and should trust and what things and people were actually not what they seemed. I felt kind of creeped out... but in a good way... I think.

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Jul 15, 2014 Lushr rated it really liked it

Yup, another good one, can't wait to get into the next! It's rare to find a good intelligent sci if series with a female protagonist, it doesn't scream about it, it doesn't squish in pointless sex scenes, Dagmar is cool, Dagmar is a woman.

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Jan 04, 2015 Darren rated it liked it

Shelves: thriller

Good thrillers should operate on the borders of possibility, the danger of that is at times and author can veer over the line in the wrong direction...

Deep State, is for the most part a decent sequel to a better book (this is not a game), with the returning female lead of that book, dagmar, returning and using her skills to run ARG games to destabilise "rogue states". Along the way there's death, mayhem and the odd strange Scottish rock star.

The main problem that I have with this title are that ...more

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Jan 08, 2015 Will rated it it was ok

This is less a "sequel" and more of a new story with the same characters. The plot was full, there was no serious mystery or intrigue like in the first book, and even the technical info was incorrect. When we finally got to the end, everything was neatly wrapped up in matter of minutes, almost as if the even the author got tired of everything and just ended it. While I was planning to read the third book, I am no longer very motivated.

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May 11, 2012 Dan rated it liked it · review of another edition

Another solid tech-savvy (but not really sci-fi) thriller, a sequel of sorts to This is Not a Game. Both books are highly readable, and - if you have a passing knowledge of the technology described - fairly light and fun. Once again, Dagmar Shaw is a resourceful and enjoyable heroine. With the "Arab Spring" in the news headlines, this book feels "of the moment" (though it seems to take place a year or so from now, 2013 at least), as it deals with internet technology assisting in the overthrow of ...more

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Jan 13, 2013 Cupof Tea rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: winnipeg-public-library, science-fiction

Great, suspenseful story starring Dagmar Shaw. She sees herself as the helpless Bond girl who dies in the first half of the film. Although she is amazingly talented at manipulating information and mobilizing the Group Mind to solve personal puzzles, she finds herself over her head over and over again. This time, she gets hired to "astroturf" Turkey after a military junta takes over the country; making it look like the revolution is grassroots, spontaneous action and showing how antiquated the ge ...more

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Oct 30, 2015 Robyn rated it liked it

I had liked This is Not a Game and was looking forward to reading this when I found it, the whole Ismet "love" story ruined it for me. way too over the top.

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May 05, 2014 Jon rated it did not like it

Shelves: abandoned

Despite liking the first book in this series, I just couldn't get into this one. I just didn't care about the setup, couldn't get into the storyline.

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About Walter Jon Williams

Walter Jon Williams has published twenty novels and short fiction collections. Most are science fiction or fantasy -Hardwired, Voice of the Whirlwind, Aristoi, Metropolitan, City on Fire to name just a few - a few are historical adventures, and the most recent, The Rift, is a disaster novel in which "I just basically pound a part of the planet down to bedrock." And that's just the opening chapters ...more

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Destiny's Way (Star Wars: The New Jedi Order, #14)

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