A Discussion on the US Election and (marginally) the British Independence Vote

This recording

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZIL2Y0QtYI&feature=share

features a discussion I had last month one evening in a pleasant bar and grill in my favourite US small town, Moscow, Idaho.

 

Moderating the discussion is my friend Doug Wilson, the former US Navy submariner, now a Calvinist pastor, educator, author and blogger whose debate on same-sex marriage (with Andrew Sullivan) I moderated in the same city a couple of years ago.

 

On both occasions I fell ill on the way there and was in danger of losing my voice, which is why I am chewing something in a rather preoccupied way before this discussion begins.  If I'd realised my mastication was on record, I'd have swallowed whatever it was.

 

The other participant is the very interesting American writer,  Walter Kirn, whose latest book 'Blood Will Out' has just achieved a great success, and whose novel 'Up in the Air' was filmed starring George Clooney and Vera Farmiga. I hope his lecture on the art of essay-writing, given the next day at the same festival (called 'Wordsmithy') , is also available on YouTube. It was very good indeed. If you want to read a good example of Mr Kirn's  style, an autobiographical essay 'Lost in the Meritocracy' (later lengthened in to a book) is a good start. It is easily available on the web.

 

 

 

 

Comments

[Californian]

I read the Walter Kirn biographical essay, Lost in the Meritocracy, but couldn't watch the video. A better title for his essay would be Life Without God. Drugs, despair, hopelessness, social striving that never satisfies. I half expected him to chronicle his own suicide by the end. If he's hanging around Doug Wilson then he's bound to have heard the gospel; I sure hope he's found Christ at this point.

[J F Jackson]

Thanks for this. The best and most informative and thoughtful 55 minutes I've spent in a long time. This should be required viewing for every member of the electorate in the U.S. I've decided that I have a moral obligation not to vote. And, I've voted since Nixon ran against McGovern and refused twice to vote for Bill, actually writing in a candidate the second time around. When I tell folks that I am not voting, I too get the sort of reaction that Mr. KIm did with his tweet. But I just refuse to play the least worst option game...not least because there is no least worst option.

[jim]

A very good, high-tone discussion with an educated panel and an interested audience, a refreshing contrast with what's been on the television talking head roundtables of late. I shudder to think of the cage match coming in the third presidential debate next week.

I'm glad Mr. Hitchens shared this with us, and for his fighting through some tough conditions to provide an enlightening evening . If you go to minute 25 in the video I think you'll see how bad his head cold must have been.

[AntonyG]

Peter Hitchens has gone full despicable elitist. Brexit was/is significant because it was won by the working class. Trump's popularity stems from the same basic reasons. He is a working class New Yorker Brooklyn construction guy.

There are fundamental reasons why the working class has suddenly started to act. They see and are affected by the problems brought on them by the globalist/fascist elitists. They don't give a stuff about political correctness. It's like a perfect antidote to all the extreme leftist brainwashing that has ruined their lives.

Peter Hitchens is unquestionably an elitist. He see's these people as nothing more than vulgarians. This is why he discounts what they have recently achieved. And it wouldn't surprise me if he has also succumbed to the brainwashing, especially by the mainstream media. Basically believing much of what they say about Trump. But they don't understand Trump. And neither does Peter Hitchens.

[louiseyvette]

I'm wondering why Moscow is PH's favourite small US town. The bit from about 29:00 on was particularly good, although I enjoyed the whole thing.

I'm wondering if it's even possible to have a nation state without worshipping it, and hence, politics.

[Rick Green]

I was listening to this while cooking and perhaps i mis-heard, but i believe the other guy (not the chairman) called Trump supporters the 'salt of the earth'. though not himself a trump supporter. I hope i heard it right. In anycase, it cheered me much to hear so- after hearing so much about them being 'racist' and 'thick' etc. I realised that this is what i think too- that Trump (and Brexit) have a near monopoly on the 'salt of the earth'. Not that i care to define that particular group- i know what i mean. But i suppose that they will be someone rooted, a person with roots. And so they are today the dis-affected.

[tony archer]

i thought the précis you delivered between 27;09 and 30;46 summed up perfectly events as they stand in the uk and somewhat in the us.I appreciate the subject of abortion being broached by yourself whenever possible though seems easier to do in the us than here where its seems now impolite and uncivilised for discussion and only suitable for one-sided channel 4 documentaries.