Is Donald Trump Trying to Prove Feminists Right About Rape Culture?
A feminist screenwriter couldn't have come up with a better male chauvinist villain.
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GoogleSince the script writers for the lowbrow comedy-drama called "2016" are fond of bizarre twists and turns, no one knows for sure whether Donald Trump's quest for the White House will be undone for good by the 11-year-old candid audio in which he brags about his sexual advances toward women. Nonetheless, it is clear that the so-called "pussy tape"—in which Trump tells then-Access Hollywood host Billy Bush that his star status allows him to "do anything" to pretty women, including "grab them by the pussy"—has dealt a serious blow to Teflon Donald, until then largely unscathed by unsavory incidents.
Is this a sign of changing attitudes toward sexual misconduct—specifically, feminist-driven refusal to tolerate behavior once brushed off as "boys will be boys" but now unequivocally seen as assaultive and misogynistic? The response to Trump's repulsive comments has been undoubtedly affected by the prominence of gender issues in this election and the fact that it follows a resurgence of feminist activism intensely focused on sexual violence. But as the experience of earlier generations shows, the cultural winds can shift in unpredictable ways.
Pussygate (who could have imagined the ways in which Trump would enrich our political vocabulary?) has inevitably elicited comparisons to the scandals surrounding Bill Clinton in the 1990s. That Hillary Clinton is now Trump's Democratic rival for the presidency just makes the parallels all the more relevant.
Bill Clinton survived the scandals—both the revelation of the affair with Gennifer Flowers during his 1992 campaign and the later claims of sexual harassment and assault as well as the disclosure of the affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky. Whether this attests to the benighted sexual politics of the 1990s, frequently portrayed these days as a pre-feminist Dark Ages, is another matter.
It's easy to forget that the early 1990s were another major feminist moment. That was when Anita Hill's testimony at the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings turned into a "national teach-in" on sexual harassment, the 1992 elections became the "Year of the Woman," moderate Republican Bob Packwood was undone as a serial harasser, and the trials of William Kennedy Smith, Mike Tyson, and O.J. Simpson generated intense discussions of acquaintance rape and domestic violence. Even the modern-day conversation about campus rape is large a replay of a 1990s debate that landed on the cover of Time magazine.
Clinton weathered the storm for several reasons. For one, his only proven improprieties involved consensual adultery. But no less importantly, feminists—including First Lady Hillary Clinton—stood by him. Women's movement veteran Gloria Steinem even claimed that an unwanted advance, however lewd and aggressive, was not sexual harassment if its initiator took "no" for an answer. (This was dubbed the "one free grope" defense, likely not available to Trump.) At the time, I wrote that feminist hypocrisy on the Clinton scandals was helping undo the excesses of ideological zeal which had sought to purge the workplace of all sexuality and treat accusations of sexual wrongdoing as proof of guilt.
Fast-forward to the Trump candidacy and Pussygate. Like Clinton, Trump has faced several allegations of sexual assault, none proven, and has a known history of adultery; unlike Clinton, he has also talked publicly about bedding married women. The "pussy tape" contains what can be read as a confession to sexual assault—though, in my view, it sounds more like sexual trash talk. (Trump's actual behavior to soap actress Arianne Zucker on the same tape is quite different from the aggressive moves he brags about). Even so, it's a fairly vile kind of trash talk. Had Clinton been caught on tape bragging that his status as a politician allows him to grope women with impunity, it would very likely have turned public opinion against him—and killed his chances if released pre-election.
Yet it also makes a difference that no feminists, progressives, or mainstream journalists are likely to defend Trump or minimize his actions; if anything, they will lean in the opposite direction of casting his words in the most literal and negative light possible. Indeed, much like the Thomas confirmation hearings almost exactly 25 years ago, Pussygate has become a consciousness-raising moment on sexual abuse, with the social media a powerful instant amplifier of women's stories.
There is no doubt that sexual predators in position of power—usually male—have far too often gotten away with victimizing the vulnerable, usually women or children. Curbing such abuses is an important step toward justice. Nonetheless, the heightened focus on sexual abuse has its dark side, now as in the early 1990s—including the stigmatization or even demonization of male sexual interest in women, the cult of female victimhood, the tendency to portray complex male-female sexual dynamics as a one-sided affair with abusive males and abused females, and the push to police sexuality.
Eventually, for one reason or another, the tide will probably turn back. But the irony of the present moment is that Trump, the man whose candidacy is fueled in large part by a revolt against political and sexual correctness, is giving the victim feminist narrative of America as a "rape culture" a boost. A feminist scriptwriter out to create a male chauvinist villain could have done no better.
Photo Credit: KEVIN DIETSCH/UPI/Newscom
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Rape culture killed my dog.
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And I don't think it's fair.
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My co-worker's step-sister makes $97 hourly on the laptop . She has been out of work for six months but last month her paycheck was $14100 just working on the laptop for a few hours. Go this website and click to tech tab to start your work... http://tinyurl.com/hhwe4zl
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Is Donald Trump Trying to Prove Feminists Right About Rape Culture?
No, Cathy, if anything the Clintons and their cronies and media hack enablers would have already done that when they got everyone to dismiss and ignore Bill's depravations and Hillary's attacks and smears of his victims.
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Blink 182 strikes again. Will their horror never stop!?
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You're thinking of Sublime. Their song "Date Rape," which is ostensibly anti-date rape, has probably been the soundtrack to more date rapes than Dave Matthews's entire oeuvre.
Blink 182's core fanbase is teenage boys who are about to get killed in a BMX accident while high on spraypaint fumes.
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Was Michael Vick involved? We know he used "rape stands" on his dogs.
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There's nothing that transpires in the human experience today that, in the minds of these crackpots, ISN'T Rape Culture. Usain Bolt's three straight gold medals in the 100m? Rape Culture. Domino's Pizza offering two-medium-two-topping pizzas for $5.99 each? Rape Culture. An egg standing upright on the autumnal equinox? Rape Culture.
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Businesses running in Napa Valley?
gRape Culture. -
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*applause*
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Except that "Fifty Shades" movie where the woman let's her boyfriend abuse her to get his love. That was just romance.
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Observe the angry swarm of ku-klux Christian National Socialists that buzzes and barnstorms the Commentariat at the slightest criticism of their girl-bullying and fetus-forfeiture policies...
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An example of rape culture should contain rape, right? If yes that standard isn't met, if no the term is meaningless anyway.
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Exactly. I think Bill Clinton has done a far better job of proving feminists right anyway, and those ungrateful harpies sure don't seem to want to acknowledge that.
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If we lived in a rape culture, wouldn't Trump's numbers go up, not down, after his supposedly raped comments?
In fact wouldn't candidates be bragging about all the women they've raped to win the approval of us misogynists?
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Logic! In a feminist thread? Evidence of the patriarchy right thurr.
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You would think so. In fact, there are plenty of places in the world that would see no problem with what Trump said nor even him acting upon it. But feminists don't talk about that lest they appear racist.
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Hey, don't be mansplaining to us.
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A feminist scriptwriter out to create a male chauvinist villain could have done no better.
Paul Feig? Joss Whedon? JJ Abrams? Taking notes boys?
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JJ Abrams#rehash
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I look forward to evidence such as Bill Clinton being roundly booed at his next campaign appearance for
Hilliary. -
If the rule is now going to be that men cannot fantasize or talk about rape, then shouldn't women be prohibited from doing the same? It is pretty well documented that being raped is one of the most common fantasies women have.
If Trump saying what he did should disqualify him from high office because it enforces "the rape culture", then shouldn't any woman who ever fantasized about being raped and shared such with someone also be disqualified? I don't see why not. Either people are allowed to have dark thoughts they don't act upon or they are not.
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It's a fifty shades of grey area.
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+1
If we are going to judge people by what they say and not what they do, fine. But lets do that. Frankly, I think a woman is in a lot less danger of being raped by some blow hard who talks a good game than some quiet sexually frustrated and angry freak.
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As a person who is sexually frustrated and angry, I am feeling very triggered by your comment.
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Well, nothing should disqualify a candidate for president besides being under 35 or not having been born in the US. After that, it's up to voters.
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But the voters deciding this or that is disqualifying is not necessarily ration or right and certainly is not above criticism. Yes, I understand that nothing legally disqualifies a President other than what you list. That, however, was in no way my point. So, I don't really see what your point is here.
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You are the one saying "prohibited" and "disqualified". It's not about rules. It's about voters judging candidates based on what they say. If someone talks about their rape fantasies (or whatever it is that Donald was talking about) in a way that makes them seem proud of them and likely to act on them, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to think poorly of them because of it.
And since when do voters decide who to vote for based on reason and good sense? Lots of people vote based on who they like as a person.
None of this makes much of any difference to me. I don't support Trump because I disagree with most of what he seems to support. If I liked his policy positions, I'd vote for him regardless of stuff like this. I was sort of disappointed that this seems to have hurt him. I was kind of looking forward to seeing some heads explode if he did win.
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Good for you. I don't see how any of that is relevant to my point. I don't know what to tell you.
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Then I'm not sure what your point is.
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Let me explain it to you again. My point is that you can't claim on the one hand that what Clinton did is no big deal and then turn around act offended about this. You can, but you look ridiculous and irrational.
Again, you don't see it that way because you like Bill Clinton and hate Trump. But my mind doesn't work that way. I find double standards to be irrational regardless of whose ox gets gored by consistent standards.
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My point is that you can't claim on the one hand that what Clinton did is no big deal and then turn around act offended about this.
Fine. That's a fair point. And I'm not doing that. I have no idea why you think I am. This is a story about Trump, so I'm talking about Trump. And I'm not the least bit offended by any of it, beyond generally finding Trump's (and both Clintons' too, since apparently I now have to mention the Clintons every time I mention Trump) personality obnoxious.
you like Bill Clinton and hate Trump
Where the fuck are you getting this from? You're just making shit up.
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Where the fuck are you getting this from?
His super warlock mind reading powers. He knows you better than you know yourself. Probably better to just admit that you like Bill Clinton. Once he's gone into full mind reader mode there's no arguing anymore.
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Zeb also likes Charlie Manson and Justin Bieber, John will confirm.
Own it Zeb, own it.
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Consistency? In a mystical looter election campaign?! What next? Rules in a knife fight?
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"You are the one saying "prohibited" and "disqualified". It's not about rules. It's about voters judging candidates based on what they say. If someone talks about their rape fantasies (or whatever it is that Donald was talking about) in a way that makes them seem proud of them and likely to act on them, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to think poorly of them because of it."
So if they not only talk about it constantly, but act out on it, and the media goes out of their way to bury the stories, while the wife goes out of her way to destroy the women that come forward, so nobody gets a sense of proportion, then only the one guy the media decided to throw under the bus is a cad?
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Uh, no. Did I say that Trump is the only person that voters might think poorly of because of piggish statements and actions?
I'm not sure why people think "Bill Clinton's a creep too" is a relevant argument. "The other guys did it too (or worse)" isn't relevant in the least.
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I'm not sure why people think "Bill Clinton's a creep too" is a relevant argument
Because his wife and chief enabler is Trump's opponent, number one. And Bill Clinton got a pass for what he did. It is not right to now come back and decide that well these standards really matter now that they apply to someone we don't like. And that is all that is going on here.
Can't you understand the concept of double standards or is the idea of holding people to different ones based on your opinion of them so engrained that it is just second nature for you?
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I think Clinton should be held to higher standards. When did I say it was OK that he wasn't?
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I'm not sure why people think "Bill Clinton's a creep too" is a relevant argument.
The same reason why progtards think "Bush did it too" is a valid defense of some of the shit Obama's done. Apparently a lot of people think Tu Quoque arguments aren't logical fallacies.
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At this point it's like tu quoque cubed. "They're hypocrites about being hypocrites too!"
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It's a relevant argument to the extent that people who made excuses for Bill Clinton are now shocked, shocked that Donald Trump would talk about doing the same things Bill did. (Oh, wait, not the same things. Trump talked about grabbing pussy, while Bill simply forced Kathleen Willey's hand onto Bill's *own* willie.)
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And what Alex says Zeb. It is most certainly unreasonable to excuse Clinton and then act like this matters. You find it reasonable because you like Clinton and don't like Trump. It is really that simple.
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How the fuck do you get to supposing I like Clinton? What Alex says is completely irrelevant to anything I've said here. I'm not comparing Trump to Clinton.
As to whether this matters, it clearly does matter, as it's changed Trumps polling and endorsements significantly. But that has nothing to do with my opinion of it. As I say above fairly clearly, it really doesn't matter to me personally.
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How the fuck do you get to supposing I like Clinton?
You know how, Zeb.
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When will I ever learn. Once he's rolling, he's not changing direction.
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Clinton liker.
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Anyone who hasn't at least once thrown a bottle urine on at least one Clinton is a Clinton-lover: fact.
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In the leaked quote, didn't Trump talk about women "letting him do it"? Isn't that consent?
In other Trump news, the "Art Wing Conspiracy" has hit SF with some amusing pro-Trump posters.
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Assuming it's accurate, then sure.
It seems like it could well be that, at least in some cases, they "let him" because they could see not doing so affecting their careers. That doesn't necessarily make it assault, but it's certainly a legit case of sexual harassment if that's what happened.
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Trump doesn't get the Steinem "one free grope" defense?
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That defense is only available to Democrats.
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But he *was* a Democrat in 2005 (and groping those women).
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Apparently he does, since he hasn't been charged with assault or sued for harassment.
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Maybe. but without more evidence and talking to the women, you can't say that with any certainty.
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Which is why I use the word "if".
I'm not rushing to any judgement here. We already knew he was an obnoxious pig. This wasn't much of a surprise.
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If you admit we don't' know, then why are you telling us "what could well be"? A lot of things "could well be". Absent evidence, however, they don't matter. Please pretending they do or if you admit they don't matter, stop wasting our time by bringing them up.
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We don't know anything either way. I was responding to someone asking "isn't that consent?". Since we only have one side of the story we don't know that either.
stop wasting our time by bringing them up
If you are concerned about wasting time, why are you even commenting on this article at all? What do you think the comment section is for?
I never said any of it matters. I'm just dicking around. Please stop imagining that I'm engaged in advocacy for or against anyone. I honestly don't have a dog in this fight and would be happier if they all just dropped dead.
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But affecting their careers in the sense of passing up what they'd see as a positive career opp'ty, not losing something they already have. Trump's saying, women let me lick/grope/whatever them because I'm Donald Trump, they'd all brag about having it done to them by me. If that's not consent, what is?
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If they don't loudly complain or report it to the authorities, is it consent?
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Typical rape-apologist
Paulist butt pirate
PapayaSF defends inexcusable Donald Trump.
This is why
(Sneer)
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Lol. Dead threading.
If you want to get into that boy's hole, you gotta pay the troll toll.
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You didn't click on the link. Go ahead. Click on it. Delicious.
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I clicked on it, there was another link farther down that page that led me to a fallace themed weeny roaster and marshmallow breasts campfire cookout set. Ordered one for the kids, thanks!
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I'm here to serve.
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It seems that the Clinton's have shown you can get away with anything if your one of the 'chosen'..Fuck this post unless they are included. Trump's an ass. The Clinton's make all their money selling influence and breaking the laws they champion.
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I've been thinking about taking up the clarinet with the ultimate goal of becoming proficient enough to jam in klezmer and/or ska bands. Pro tips?
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Skip the clarinet. Learn the bass and join a funk band.
Ska is rape culture. Except for the Jam. They're ok.
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Ugh. The Specials.
*more coffee*
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I was in one of those big Halloween gear pop-up shops and they were playing "Ghost Town" on the spooky music mix.
I mean, it has "ghost" in the title so it's a Halloween song, right?
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Lol. Way better than Monster Mash for the billionth time, though.
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True.
I guess the little kids are why they aren't playing The Cramps or Rob Zombie or Alice Cooper. So much underutilized horror rock.
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My kid is working at one of those stores. I'll see that he makes the appropriate changes.
Little kids need Alice Cooper, man.
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"I'm so scared your little head will come off in my hands"
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Man, all you need for Halloween music is The Ghastly Ones.
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While handing out candy, I always use my 12' of "Bela Lugosi's Dead" slowed down to 33. Not only does it make it like 30 minutes long, but Murphy in slow-mo croaks "I'm dead, I'm dead, I'm dead" amazingly.
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Nice.
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This is so good if you've never... (totes SFW you guis!)
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Somebody needs to pump all the sulphur hexafluoride out of that room before those girls suffocate.
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It's exactly how you sound when you huff Freon.
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Just...the original unaltered source material....exists. Ugh.
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There are at least 82 episodes of the source material. I'm afraid to find out how many there really are.
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At least 354. Holy fuck.
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If SugarFree is afraid, you KNOW it's worse than you could possibly imagine.
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I feel less angry about the youtube revenue share from those videos when I think about a future where all of their heads try to say something profound, only to be immediately pulled back down to an erect dong, and their heads resume bobbing up and down. After they're 18 of course.
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Write 3000 of your stories before you ever post shit like this again. FFS.
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So you don't want a link to "Teen Survival Guide: Periods"?
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I do not. Good day sir. I said GOOD DAY! *sobs
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I did like that song in the movie "Snatch', which is about a diamond, and not a pussy.
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I already know bass enough to fake it, and the clarinet thing is intended to be banter that is less idiotic than the Trump to-and-fro.
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I get it. I was just trying to pick a fight. Anything is better than Cathy Young on Trump.
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Even Dalmia on Trump?
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Anything is better than Cathy Young on Trump.
Trump might disagree.
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The fuck you say about clarinets????
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Much better!
*drops gloves*
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*trills a clarinet*
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Dude, your black, you play bass. - Cartman
What kinda bass you got? I used to play a 5 string Fender Jazz, then I realized I'm not very good at it. -
It's a red Peavy 4-string "Extra Neglected - Unplayed" Edition. Collects the finest dust man can buy.
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Nice.
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I preferred The Selecter. And of course The English Beat.
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The Selecter had on of the greatest title for an album ever. They called their greatest hits record "Selected Selecter Selections". I always loved that title.
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The Jam is a "ska" band?
Now I've heard everything.
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+1
Ska was a Mod thing, but The Jam wasn't ska.
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Pro tips?
Bring pork products to the rehearsals.
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And weed.
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Clarinets are for pussies. Plus, I've never heard of Ska bands using them. Saxophones maybe, but not clarinets. Learn the trumpet or trombone instead.
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Had Clinton been caught on tape bragging that his status as a politician allows him to grope women with impunity, it would very likely have turned public opinion against him—and killed his chances if released pre-election.
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Barf.
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The "pussy tape" contains what can be read as a confession to sexual assault
Only by feminists. In the real world it's what slutty women do, they throw themselves at alpha males, even if they're already married.
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I don't see how it is a confession of anything.
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I fail to see where an Alpha Male factors into this.
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As I under stand it, when a male of the human species is deascribed as 'alpha' especially when so described by himself, it's a synonym for 'retarded.'
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If you say "Alpha Male" three times while standing in front of your bathroom mirror with the light off, Johnny Longtorso will appear wearing a stupid hat and ask you for a blowjob.
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when a male of the human species is deascribed as 'alpha' especially when so described by himself, it's a synonym for 'retarded.'
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Is Donald Trump Trying to Prove Feminists Right About Rape Culture?
Well, if Bill Clinton couldn't accomplish that by doing stuff, maybe Trump can do it by saying stuff.
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That's the part that just blows me away. Trump is awful for saying stuff, but the Clintons are okay, even though Bill actually sexually assaulted and even raped women. Somehow talking is worse than actual assault and rape. People can't really be that stupid and irrational, can they? I have to assume it's all just fake outrage because they want an excuse to attack Trump.
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'I have to assume it's all just fake outrage because they want an excuse to attack Trump.'
Yup, the pity is that some of Reason's writers are in on the game. -
Its about political affiliations. If you claim allegiance to the team that supposedly champions leftist causes and feminism, and in public espouse that ideology, these people are willing to turn a blind eye to anything you do. But if you are not part of that team, then saying things is enough to label you as a threat on the female of the species and lead to your ruination.
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That's what I've assumed all along. Hard for me to imagine anyone's taking it seriously 1st hand. However, it seems to be moving the polls! Meaning there are people who are saying disingenuously, "Trump's awful," & on that 2nd-hand testimony some people are deciding he is.
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Which people on the center-right are saying that Bill Clinton's serial sexual predation is in any way, shape, or form, "okay"?
Look, leftist hypocrisy on this issue is terrible. People who circled the wagons around Bill Clinton and Teddy Kennedy and treated those guys as heroes have zero moral standing to complain about Trump's sexual loutishness, and it's been beyond enraging to watch those assholes clutch their pearls and try to retreat to their fainting couches this week.
But -- and this is important -- they're not wrong. Anybody who brags that his celebrity permits him to grope women with impunity is a fucking scumbag, full stop, and saying so doesn't somehow exculpate Bill Clinton. And if it troubles you that people are tearing into Trump without doing a lot of throat-clearing about Billy Jeff, permit me to point out that (a) Billy Jeff isn't on the ballot, and (b) it's not my job to help the Democrats take out their trash.
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Holy shit. Billy Jeff's wife is on the ballot, and she actually ran a war room to attack and smear Billy Jeff's victims, which makes her far more horrible than Trump just saying stupid shit. Because covering for an actual serial sexual assaulter and rapist and attacking his victims makes Hillary far more of a scumbag than Trump is for merely engaging in locker-room talk. And where did I say anything about people on the center-right? Try reading for comprehension.
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Pussygate. Pussy. Gate.
How am I supposed to be able to compete with this? Lovecraftian horrors? Squabbling headgear? I am so depressed.
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Trump was just trying to get your vote. Honestly, has anyone ever directly and personally appealed for your vote like this?
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I have faith that you are up to the challenge.
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A trans-dimensional gate to all kinds of pussy.
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Lovecraftian horrors?
Enough about Hillary's snatch!
Squabbling headgear?
"Grab its motherfucking pussy!" snarled The Hat...
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That was when Anita Hill's testimony at the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings turned into a "national teach-in" on sexual harassment
+1 Coke can pube
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While I remember this time well, I don't remember if the national teach-in included courses like "Being Harassed, Don't follow your harasser around" and stuff like that?
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Anita Hill should be believed, in spite of the factors that call into question her credibility, while all of Bill's very credible victims should be dismissed, because Team D. Yes, it's a very educational moment on sexual harassment.
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It was another moment to watch people work themselves up in feigned indignation.
Hill was in tears recounting the "who left a pubic hair on my coke" joke. Almost unable to continue, it was so upsetting to recount.
This despite the fact that it would have been a familiar joke to any Jr. high school kid of the time, and it was never a sexist joke about women, it is a racist joke about black people's hair. One that wouldn't really apply to Anita Hill and her chemically straightened hair.
So I was stunned to watch a grown woman visibly shaking with tears, struggling to recount the sordid tail of a juvenile joke - and then see the reaction of Senators and journalists and other ostensible grownups reacting in horror at the thought of such a joke. They were climbing over one another to claim the honor of most outraged and shocked.
All of which applies to the current situation. Trump's comments are worse - more crass and evidence of a more deep-seated attitude toward women- but still in the realm of rude braggadocio that no serious person could claim as "a confession of sexual assault".
Yet people are truly, personally outraged. The women I know fully believe that he was bragging that he walks up to women and grabs them by the pussy - and not just as the world's worst pickup line, but as a method of dragging them off for unwanted sex.
This tape is possibly a mortal wound for Trump. It isn't just a turn-off, it is an energizer.
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There is exactly one group who can say "this is disqualifying."
Its the people who said that about Clinton when he was in the White House.
Same with "this is no big deal." If you said that about Clinton, you can say that about Trump. There is a little more wiggle room for "this is no big deal." Its possible to say that its no big deal to run your yap about groping women, while also saying it is a big deal to actually grope them.
Everyone else should keep their yaps shut, because otherwise they are pushing a blatant double standard.
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Yep, Trump did finally accomplish what every other Republican politician failed to do: getting Democrats to see rapey behavior as disqualifying someone from the presidency.
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No, rapey behavior has always been disqualifying for Republican politicians. Any sort of sexual misconduct is disqualifying for Republican politicians. Even simply leaving your wife.
Democrats? Nah, I'm not seeing this as a precedent. There are no precedents in this game.
Packwood was no precedent for Clinton. Newt was no precedent for Edwards. Larry Craig was run off for (maybe) hitting on someone in the most oblique way possible in a men's room - but it took multiple repeat offenses involving semi-explicit photos for Anthony Wiener's career to get (at least temporarily) sidetracked.
No, politics is officially the land of "our guy is OK, your guy is the devil". Only Republicans have proven to have some level of principal regarding their own in my lifetime. They may set a pretty high bar before they'll turn on their own, but at least they will do it. The Dems? Not so much. They'll defend their own to the last.
Newt was ripped by the left over a perfectly legal book deal which saw him get a million dollar advance. When HRC got a bigger advance a couple of years later, it didn't even rate a faked yawn. And now we see the prohibitive favorite for the presidency having explicitly taken direct payments in the millions of dollars from foreign governments and big multinational corporations - in addition to even bigger donations to her foundation in exchange for "access". And it doesn't even rate a serious question from the press.
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Or what you can say is "I wish it were a big deal but after Clinton it is not and there is no point in pretending that it is". It doesn't matter if you are offended by this and wish we could hold our candidates to a higher standard of behavior, the fact is we don't. And hanging Trump over this isn't going to change that. It is just going to affirm a double standard, which is much worse than no standard.
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Who is this "we" you keep talking about?
Each person can hold candidates to whatever standard of behavior they choose. Yes, a lot of people are maintaining a double standard. That doesn't mean that everyone who criticizes Trump over this is using a double standard.
If you complain (rightly) about Clinton not being held to account for his history of harassment of women and quite likely worse, it's also quite hypocritical not to hold Trump to the same standards. And before you try to read my mind again, I'm not saying that Trump has necessarily done anything as bad or worse as what Clinton has done. -
That doesn't mean that everyone who criticizes Trump over this is using a double standard.
Which is kinda my point. If you were a Repub in the Clinton years busting Clinton's balls for his sexual activities (remember "character matters"?), you can bust Trump's balls here. As much disdain as I have for the NeverTrumpers, this is actually the box many of them probably fall into.
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It does seem like most of the people who have dropped support for Trump after this mess were just looking for an excuse to do so.
For me, this shit is really pretty low on my list of reasons to criticize either Clinton or Trump. Character matters to some degree, but actual policy positions and views on the proper role of the president matter a lot more.
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Kennedy was a pussy hound too, but at least he was right policy wise about getting rid of Jim Crow and not getting involved in Vietnam.*
*I couldn't be arsed enough to fact check either of those things but you get the point.
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"Now we have a problem in making our power credible, and Vietnam is the place."
- JFK explaining why the U.S. was intervening to prop up the South Vietnamese government.
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I had a feeling after I typed that that I was totally wrong.
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It was totally a pretext, no doubt.
But, if they were also busting Clinton's balls back in the day, they at least aren't hypocrites about it.
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Indeed, much like the Thomas confirmation hearings almost exactly 25 years ago, Pussygate has become a consciousness-raising moment on sexual abuse, with the social media a powerful instant amplifier of women's stories.
I always considered that to be the amplification of a vicious lie for the purpose of making sure that a conservative black man was not allowed on the Supreme Court and discredited from the start if he was.
Bill Clinton survived the scandals—both the revelation of the affair with Gennifer Flowers during his 1992 campaign and the later claims of sexual harassment and assault as well as the disclosure of the affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky. Whether this attests to the benighted sexual politics of the 1990s, frequently portrayed these days as a pre-feminist Dark Ages, is another matter.
No Cathy it betrays the fact that feminists are complete phonies who never meant a word of what they said. It showed the world it was always about partisan politics and nothing else. If you think it was everything goes in the 1990s, go talk to John Tower or any number of other Republicans who were run out of public life for lesser offenses than Clinton.
What a terrible article. Just terrible.
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John, Cathy Young got famous for calling them out for that.
You're barking up the wrong tree.
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Good for her. That doesn't make what she is saying here any less wrong. She apparently has forgotten how she called them out or why or perhaps changed her mind. I can only judge her by that garbage she is writing here.
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"[Cathy Young's] writing covers a variety of topics in politics and culture, with particular focus on gender issues and feminism, reflecting an individualist feminist perspective (c.f. Wendy McElroy), frequently agreeing with men's rights activists"
"Describing the Gamergate controversy in relation to feminism, Young has stated that she believes that Gamergate is a backlash against feminism, but "it's a backlash against a particular kind of feminism, one that has a tendency to look obsessively for offences, read ideology into everything, and demonize male sexuality"
"In 2015, Young wrote an article in The Daily Beast in which she interviewed the student whom anti-rape activist Emma Sulkowicz accused of rape.[8] In a response, Sulkowicz described Young as an "anti-feminist"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Young
And you're going after Young for what, again, precisely?
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a particular kind of feminism, one that has a tendency to look obsessively for offences, read ideology into everything, and demonize male sexuality
Seems to me that describes what is going on with all of this ginned-up outrage over Trump's locker-room talk. But that doesn't seem to be what Cathy is criticizing here.
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Read the post again with an open mind. She's stating what the feminists are doing, but that isn't supporting it.
Just the bit I quoted below:
"The heightened focus on sexual abuse has its dark side, now as in the early 1990s—including the stigmatization or even demonization of male sexual interest in women, the cult of female victimhood, the tendency to portray complex male-female sexual dynamics as a one-sided affair with abusive males and abused females, and the push to police sexuality."
Cathy Young is demonized by feminists for writing such heretical things.
Do you not see what she's saying there?
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I just read the piece again.
Young points out that Steinem and other feminists were hypocrites on Bill Clinton's sexual issues.
Young refers to Trump's pussygate statement as trash talk rather than a confession of sexual assault.
Young points out that Trump makes feminists, progressives, etc. look like hypocrites on Bill Clinton all over again.
All that being said, The Donald looks like the sexual predator from central casting that the feminists and progressives want him to be.
All of which seems fair to me.
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I just re-read it as well. I'm not sure her writing is that clear-cut, but I definitely see your point.
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She's well known for the "on the one hand, on the other hand", stuff as well.
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Yeah, but she also criticized "daddy" which makes her a Clinton supporter. QED. /sarc
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John's off his rocker today. He thinks I'm a Clinton supporter, somehow.
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We've all got you figured out, Zeb. If that even is your real name.
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Tulpa.
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"Whether this attests to the benighted sexual politics of the 1990s, frequently portrayed these days as a pre-feminist Dark Ages, is another matter."
Clinton didn't fail. Society did.
Ugh.
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"The heightened focus on sexual abuse has its dark side, now as in the early 1990s—including the stigmatization or even demonization of male sexual interest in women, the cult of female victimhood, the tendency to portray complex male-female sexual dynamics as a one-sided affair with abusive males and abused females, and the push to police sexuality."
Pardon the analogy, but guys telling fish stories bragging about their sexual conquests is as common as guys themselves. Yeah, fish stories! Has everyone but regular guys forgotten what those are? They're stories guys tell about the fish that got away. You should have seen it! It was a 15 lbs Bass!
They're tall tales that aren't necessarily meant to be taken literally or all that seriously. Do regular guys talk about women that way? You better believe it. What her ass looked like, how big her tits were, what he said, what she said back, what he did, etc., etc. Quoting somebody's fish story as if it were meant to be taken seriously is obtuse.
Get a clue, people! Baron von Munchhausen's stories aren't meant to be taken literally, and exposing the good Baron for claiming to have done outrageous things just means you're too dumb to get the joke.
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So, whether or not they realize it, in their demonization of Trump, they're also going after regular guys everywhere. It's a common misunderstanding with women who want to be treated just like the guys. If you were treated just like one of the guys, we wouldn't be worried about your feelings at all. If you were treated like one of the guys, they'd make fun of you for being fat, call you "jackass" ll the time, and ask you to tell your mother to stop calling them in the middle of the night.
Is it normal locker room behavior for guys to claim to be banging each other's mothers?
The correct answer is "yes", and if having once said something like that disqualifies Trump from being President or regular guys from being part of polite, inclusive society, then why would regular guys support that polite inclusive society?
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We had a good laugh about this whole thing the other day at hockey. The average locker room in any beer league around the world is infinitely more vile than even Trump's best efforts.
And I say that with pride, by the way.
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I've been skating in beer leagues for two decades. Never once have I heard anybody brag in the locker room that his fame entitled him to grope women with impunity. If this sort of thing is commonplace in the locker rooms you frequent, permit me to suggest to your league is infested with misogynist shitbags, and you should find a better league.
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Oooooh looky...a new troll. So all the guys are eunuchs where you skate.
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The guys where I skate are decent human beings who'd kick the everliving shit out of any dipshit tryhard alpha wannabe who dared to lay hands on somebody's friend, sister, daughter, wife, mother, or girlfriend.
If your experience differs, again, permit me to suggest that your league is infested with misogynist shitbags, and you should surround yourself with a better class of person.
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What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
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The correct answer is "yes", and if having once said something like that disqualifies Trump from being President or regular guys from being part of polite, inclusive society, then why would regular guys support that polite inclusive society
It would and you have to remember an upper class twit like Young views that as a very good thing. You are absolutely right that the entire point of this is to make anything other than a completely neutered and feminized version of masculinity acceptable in polite company. And to that I say, fuck them.
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Women want to be treated like guys when it's to their advantage to be treated like guys, and to be treated as special and different when it's to their advantage to be treated as special and different. Because feminism, I guess.
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I don't think they understand how guys treat each other.
In a lot of ways, I think rap took locker room culture and just put it out into the open.
If you read some of Catullus' poetry, from Roman times, he's talking about how he's gonna make one his critics his girlfriend, etc.
Women seem to imagine guys as if they were women with penises, but we think differently--and the differences seem to be cross cultural and consistent throughout history.
I read something once by a female to male transsexual writing about what it was like when the testosterone first kicked in, how he couldn't think straight for being distracted by all the breasts and asses, how he found himself staring at women's breasts while they were talking, etc.--something this person had railed against!
We should never confuse the difference between what we say and what we do--and both women and men should be treated as individuals with rights that need to be respected. But going after guys for sexual boasting is a lot like making fun of women for their maternal instincts.
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Spot on.
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You talk like Trump does to your male coworkers? You definitely could get the place sued. I'd watch it if I were you.
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You're a panty-waist.
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He's a retard.
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"Rape culture" is just an ancient strategy adopted yet again. If you disapprove of something, demonize it. If that isn't believable on its own, make up some pseudo-scientific paper and publish it in a low impact factor journal and then call the press.
It's at least as old as Plato (the supposed "corruption of the youth" that earned Socrates an execution).
Lewd and violent acts in comic books turn your kids into filthy perverts.
Dungeons and Dragons make your kids into devil worshipers.
Video games cause your kids to become violent.Feminists don't like certain expressions of male sexuality, ergo locker-room sexual banter is now the cause of rapes. Moral panics are nothing new, but this one is particularly insidious because it's difficult to counter the rhetoric without looking like you're a rape apologist, and a legion of SJWs is ready to pounce on you for it.
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Forget what DT said... It's what he did that is the problem. I want justice for this child rapist. Anyone accused of rape should be called a rapist. JUSTICE.FOR.KATIE!
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Please don't feed the troll.
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Troll? You mean I like to give the finger to Trump-supporting right-wingers and don't have a single problem with the way Gary Johnson has run his campaign or libertarians who vote for him? That's a troll on a libertarian website? Why?
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Here we have one flavor of Socialism pointing at the mirror and observing that its reflection parts its hair on the wrong side. Progressive Socialism worships government handouts, while National Socialism worships Jesus, war and girl-bullying. Al Gore gropes massage girls and Donald Duck gropes debutantes. If both brands of socialist weren't cowards we could deploy them with pistols on the field of honor and make book on the outcome until the last ones were hauled off on a stretcher.
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He's been extra spastic this week. It's exhausting to watch.
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He really is a ridiculous little twat pathetically demanding attention.
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But I really want to point out to it that being accused is not the same thing as being convicted.
ie: Hillary or Bill Clinton
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+1 grab its leg
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Anyone accused of rape should be called a rapist.
So I guess from now on we can expect you to refer to Bill Clinton as "rapist Bill Clinton."
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Is this a sign of changing attitudes toward sexual misconduct—specifically, feminist-driven refusal to tolerate behavior once brushed off as "boys will be boys" but now unequivocally seen as assaultive and misogynistic?
Was that sort of thing ever really tolerated though? I know "locker room talk" like what Trump said has, in the past, been brushed off as "boys will be boys" or "guys talking shit," but to the best of my knowledge actually following through on stuff like that has always been rightly discouraged and looked down upon by pretty much everyone as something that decent civilized men simply don't do.
Am I wrong? Has going around "grab[bing] its motherfucking
legpussy" been something that was totally socially acceptable this whole time? -
Yeah, it was locker room talk because you were supposed to keep it in the locker room. Just guys woofin', and yes, it should be brushed off as boys will be boys.
Take that kind of trash talk into a room with women in it, and they can be offended, because its fuckin' rude.
Based on what I have heard, "locker room talk" can't hold a candle to a group of women talking about sex amongst themselves.
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When men do it, it's vulgar; when women do it, it's empowering.
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when women do it, it's empowering.
"Women are funny, get over it! ... Just say 'Muh vagina' a lot...
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You should see them in group form at a male strip club.
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Based on what I have heard, "locker room talk" can't hold a candle to a group of women talking about sex amongst themselves.
I have it on good authority that no woman would ever talk like that.
Sure, they talk about sex - explicitly. They even talk about hot guys. But not like that.
It doesn't matter what examples you come up with - they are never going to be comparable unless some woman says she walks right up to men and grabs them by their dick. And even then there would undoubtedly be some qualifier discovered that makes it totally different.
No, you aren't going to win on this one. Trump is perfectly evil for what he said to Billy Bush. Oh, and did you know that he is actually a relative of the Bush presidents? Yeah, that shows just how evil they all are.
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Sexual assault was acceptable when Bill Clinton was doing it, but not for everyone. Now it's not. Unless maybe it's another powerful Democrat. Then maybe it is again.
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just like it's acceptable for Trump to rape a 13-year old?
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"She was not unresponsive."?
Remember that one? I'd love to see a list of all the people who thought Roman Polanski should get a pass for ass-raping a drugged 12 year old, but who think Trump should be driven from polite society for locker room talk.
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Is there any reason to believe Trump was talking about anyone but groupies?
He was talking about women who would let him do anything, because he was a star. He said "they let me".
Added your Polanski rape apologists list, I'd like to see the list of Democrat actors and musicians who've actually taken advantage of groupies, who "let them" do things, because "they are a star."
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According to Joy Behar that would make her a tramp.
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Was Trump admitting to sexual assault or was he crudely bragging about casting couch conquests? What he was talking seems to have as lot more in common with Bill and Monica (using prestige and influence to have his way with women looking to ingratiate themselves with an influentioal man) than with acts of violence.
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Today is 25 years since Anita Hill's testimony. For more than a quarter century, the sensibilities of women have set all the rules around acceptable workplace discourse. And we're still expected to believe that women are impossibly disadvantaged.
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RE: Is Donald Trump Trying to Prove Feminists Right About Rape Culture?
A feminist screenwriter couldn't have come up with a better male chauvinist villain.What?
Trump the Grump a male chauvinist?
Who would've thought that from a fascist? -
Feminists could not possibly be proven right about 'Rape Culture', since their idea of an all powerful Patriarchy who routinely oppress women with an obsessive fervor is as much a fever dream as their fantasy about pre-patriarch Women-ruled cultures which they mythologize based on some out of context things that a young and perhaps incautious Margaret Meade did not quite actually say about the Samoans.
What Trump proves with his gutter-talk is that men are frequently jerks, something anyone with the sense God gave a tulip has known effectively forever, and which the Feminists proved they didn't care about when they backed Bill "I like to boink the help" Clinton.
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There is no doubt that sexual predators in position of power—usually male—have far too often gotten away with victimizing the vulnerable, usually women or children.
Actually the ones who usually live out the part of "getting away with it" are women.
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Holy shit, i can honestly say i was surprised. 100% fully expected this article to be written by Robby. Well played Reason, well played.
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how about an accurate quote of what Trump said? Why did you have to re-write it?
He said, "And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."
"..they let you do it."
"..they let you.."
Not, "I force them to."
Not, "I'm a star and can do anything to them."
Not, "You might want to put some ice on that."
Not, "I threatened their jobs and they let me."
Not, "I got them so drunk they didn't know what they were doing and they let me."
Not, "I had an Arkansas State Trooper pick them up and bring them to my hotel room, and they let me."
We can assume the women he is talking about are adults, fully capable of consent or denial, base on his actual quote, and not the chopped up, paraphrased quote the author used.
"They let you do it" isn't rape or sexual assault. "They let you" is consent.
What does it say about the women who throw themselves at stars? Or the stars that "let them"?
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How is his comment any different than Hollywood actors or rock stars and a particular class of women know as groupies?
Do you think liberal Hollywood stars and the Bruce Springsteens don't take advantage of what groupies "let them" do?
Wasn't Monica Lewinsky just a groupie?
What did she "let" Bill do? With a cigar?
How is this any different?
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Oh yeah, the difference.
Trump talked about it.
Bill actually did it.
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Here we have a perfect demonstration of how National Socialism (The Right) and its foils set up an alternate reality gestalt. The NDSAP program of 1920 and Der same Fuehrer's speech bullying the Enabling Act into the Reichstag are both available on wiki sites and elsewhere. We are witnessing mystical altruism arming itself with deadly force and running amok. In the Mohammedan world it is for Allah, and in the Tea Party universe it is for another mythical altruist who never even existed. When George Orwell reviewed Mein Kampf he pointedly observed that conservatives had welcomed it as Gospel. So... here we are again. Geli Raubal and Eva Braun beware!
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Trump barged in on naked 15 year old beauty pageant contestants because he was trying to teach them about border security.
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"A feminist scriptwriter out to create a male chauvinist villain could have done no better."
You make a joke of yourself with this ending line.
The POTUS takes advantage of a young female intern in the Oval Office. That's about the ultimate 'abuse of position' any man could achieve. Any CEO would have immediately been fired. Any Republican POTUS would have been destroyed.
Bill skates, because feminists only care about their own power and influence. Feminists don't give a rats ass about other women, except when they can use them as cudgels to destroy any man who dares disagree with them.
Bill Clinton is the epitome of a "male chauvinist villain". Perhaps we should talk about his trips to pedophile island? -
Bryce . even though Samuel `s story is unbelievable... on tuesday I bought a great Peugeot 205 GTi after making $4790 this - four weeks past an would you believe $10k last month . it's definitly the most-comfortable work Ive ever done . I actually started 4 months ago and right away startad earning more than $85 p/h . find more info
................ http://www.BuzzNews10.com
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huh, someone talking about Pussygate actually had something interesting and informative to say about it, and didn't feel the need to shrill it all.
Bravo.
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Welcome, Cathy, to the Christian National Socialist revival! George Bush's March 2006 Executive Order establishing the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives laid the groundwork for prohibitionist asset-forfeiture to destroy first our own economy, then fan outwards to places like Brazil. There, as secondary economic collapse again set in President Dilma signed a law providing pregnancy prophylaxis for rape victims. Evangelical fanatic and House Speaker Cunha moved to block the law and impeach the president thrice chosen by a plurality of voters. As in 1933, God's Own Prohibitionists are again policing whatever might "violate the ethical and moral feelings of the Germanic race", just as from 1933 to 1945. This Trump & Gore phenomenon is exportation of Mohammedan-style prohibitionism and rape culture, pure and simple.
