Who Will Get Our Votes?
reason's 2016 presidential poll
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GoogleIn every national election since 2004, reason has asked staffers, contributors, and other libertarian-relevant human beings to tell us who they're voting for and why.
We do this in the spirit of transparency. Too many journalists are overly precious about maintaining the appearance of objectivity; reason strives instead to be open and honest with our readers about the individual and collective biases that go into producing the magazine you hold in your hands.
While participation is not mandatory, we ask reason's staffers and associates to share what they do in their private ballot box time because we believe that showing our math year after year lets readers better calibrate their expectations about our coverage and balance their media diet as they see fit.
In 2016, as in past years, our survey yielded a high percentage of voters for the Libertarian Party nominee, but the results were far from monolithic. The Gary Johnson/William Weld ticket pulled a majority, but there were also "none of the above"s, "maybe"s, if/thens, a reluctant Green voter, an elaborate write-in, and even a few supporters of Democrat Hillary Clinton and Republican Donald Trump. In an attempt to measure red vs. blue sentiment among third-party and opt-out voters—a growing segment of the general electorate as well as the reason staff—we also asked which of the major party candidates our respondents found most alarming. Trump grabbed a decisive but not unanimous win in that category.
We took some early readings on the levels of Obama nostalgia present in the reasonverse, asking what people would miss about the last eight years. Answers ranged from the sincere ("his eloquence and his adult common sense," his "stabs at criminal justice reform") to the sarcastic ("Barack's empathetic understanding of small-town Americans," "watching progressives realize that cool black presidents can be just as bad as uncool white presidents," "Joe Biden's gaffes").
Nothing in what follows should be construed as an official endorsement for any candidate or cause. These are the personal views of individual participants and not the official views of reason or Reason Foundation, which is a 501(c)3 nonprofit and as such doesn't endorse particular candidates or specific pieces of legislation. Legalese aside, we do hope what follows is interesting, informative, and at least mildly enlightening.
(This special online edition of the survey includes 10 bonus replies—everyone after Dave Barry. Enjoy!)
—Katherine Mangu-Ward
Nick Gillespie
Nick Gillespie, editor in chief of reason.com and Reason TV, is co-author of The Declaration of Independents (PublicAffairs).
Who are you voting for? I'm voting for Gary Johnson, whose platform comes the closest to expressing my libertarian sentiments about the role of government. I like that he and Bill Weld are talking about cutting the size, scope, and spending of government and allowing people more choices in how we live our lives.
Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming? I find both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton unacceptable choices. Trump's xenophobia and protectionism are truly disturbing and so is his absolute lack of relevant experience. Clinton's foreign policy, attitude toward the surveillance state, and spending priorities are simply awful.
Who did you vote for in 2012? Gary Johnson.
What will you miss most about the Obama years? The foolish, momentary optimism some people had that nothing could be as bad as the Bush years.
Thomas Massie
Rep. Thomas Massie represents Kentucky's 4th congressional district.
Who are you voting for? I've voted for Bob Barr (Libertarian) and Pat Buchanan (Reform Party) for POTUS in the past, but this year I plan to vote for Donald Trump.
Photo Credit: Joanna Andreasson
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.
On select articles, Reason is testing a new comment promotion feature developed by SolidOpinion. Commenters can purchase points and bid to promote their comments and/or the comments of others. Winning comments are displayed at the top of the comment thread for each article, and are identified as “promoted comments.” Point purchases and bidding are handled SolidOpinion. Please send any questions and feedback to promoted-comments@reason.com.
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First. No comment.
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Let me help out:
There's a great email copy from WikiLeaks discussing how their strategy was to get the media and everyone to help the Republicans choose a "Pied Piper" candidate. They specifically wanted either Trump, Cruz, or Carson. They got the one they had the most ammunition on and the one most easily beaten.
Since I can't figure out which one will be worse, for that alone, if it's close in November and Johnson isn't polling above 10% here in NH, I'll be voting for Trump. The left should feel the same pain everyone else is going to feel based on their strategy to provide us with no reasonable alternative to Clinton.
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This article was a mountain of stupid. But the pinnacle of the mountain was this from Deidre:
"Hillary will appoint civil libertarians to the Court."
CitizensSubjects United. -
No big surprises. Some entertaining quips.
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ENB had the best line of the article.
"The creeping sense of disillusionment and despair he inspired in once-idealistic millennial friends?"
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Agreed:)
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"The creeping sense of disillusionment and despair he inspired in once-idealistic millennial friends?"
Look, I think Robby's annoying too, but isn't that a little melodramatic?
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I was surprised at how many were non-voters and went on and on about your vote no counting (lame excuses but less votes for Hillary anyway), how many didn't vote in person but needed absentee ballots (suspicious) and how many think Trump is worse than Hitlery. Hillary has been atrocious in actual political office. Trump has been bad in business.
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To the "My vote—like yours—doesn't count" set:
Voting for the LP candidate this time could result in enough votes for the LP to be considered a major party next time. That means being able to avoid spending all the time and money to get ballot access next time. This frees up time and money to build the party instead. So your vote does count if your goal is to create a viable 3rd party option to the duopoly. -
I'd prefer a third party that actually offers an option to the duopoly, rather than one that's the last best hope of the establishment. One that actually represents a new direction instead of one that's doubling down on all the worst of the status quo.
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Weird, I was struck by how many thought Hillary was worse than Trump.
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Trump and Hillary are decoys the Kleptocracy floats out there to attract suckers with money and votes--but no brains. If either one gets the brass ring, that entity will be the expiatory goat by term's end, drawing attention from mummified Congressional parasites of two decades' standing.
The party platform is the only thing that matters, and the LP platform built on Ayn's 1947 letter to Linda Lynneberg represents me and offers me 6 to 36 times the law-changing bang for my vote. The 1.4% of looter votes that burdened us with the 16th Amendment and inspired the Soviet Union ought to be a lesson. Two million votes created the IRS and we can dismantle it by the same method. Getting rid of bad laws and looter congressmen is reason enough to vote libertarian. -
I am impressed with how many said Trump was more alarming but none said they would actually vote for Hillary.
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I guess I shouldn't have skimmed the second page.
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The more I learn about Katherine Mangu-Ward, the more I like her. I think Reason is gonna do great with her at the helm. Fuck anyone that picked Clinton or Trump - what the hell is wrong with you people.
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Your mom?
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Look at meee!!!
Jill Stein approves this message.
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My favorite surprise here was the number of people who would love to have Obama for another term. Which I agree but then again having him on the Supreme Court would be nice too. I was most alarmed by the number of people who didn't find Trump most alarming.
Jill Stein approves this message.
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Don't worry Obama can still implement martial law, suspend habeas corpus and nullify the election results. Declaring himself King of Kenya, *America* I mean.
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My favorite surprise here was the number of people who would love to have Obama for another term.
Considering that a plurality of the staff voted for him twice, it shouldn't surprise you much, but then, you're probably stunned to see the sun rising in the east every morning.
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Not a single person who answered in the 2012 edition of this article said Obama. And I think Barr got the plurality in 2008.
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Yeah, let's put a petulant asshole with no concept of enumerated powers or constitutional knowledge on the Supreme Court. That'll turn out swell.
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What will I miss about the Obama years?
The hundreds of thousands of US troops in Iraq.
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Don't worry. Obama still have 3 months left in office.
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I guess the tens of thousands are just chump change to american shithead.
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Ah, the most important article of the year, and one that will be referenced in perpetuity. I appreciate the fact that I had to click on many pages in order to keep being outraged.
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Who is Katherine Mangu-Ward?
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The last pro-liberty writer to work for Reason.
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I think she dyed her hair purple cuz she got bummed out over Prince and is a Vikes fan.
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Would
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Oh you're pro liberty? I don't think that word means that you think it means.
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So that's only two Clinton votes from the poll. Kind of puts to rest the insane notion that Reason is in the tank for Hillary, eh?
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There's a lot more when they qualify who they'd support "if I thought my vote would count". Everyone who says Trump is worse is in the tank for Hillary.
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Everyone who says Trump is worse is in the tank for Hillary.
You're such an idiot.
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SIV has been living on a diet of gamecock foie gras and expired chicken feed, so his mind is not the clearest these days.
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True the idjit, but false the premise that God's Own Prohibitionists are better for the economy than the Dems. It was Republican Prez Harrison who kicked off the Panic of 1893 by suddenly changing customs regulations over opium. Teddy Rosenfeld, the man who pissed off every beer drinker in NY, as president encouraged state prohibitionism that was the leading cause of the Panic of 1907. Herbert Hoover, Republican, 1919, 1932! Dick Nixon's Moral majority, Reagan crash in 1987 and Depression plus Bush ditto in 1992, then Bush (the remake) in 2007. The only real crash in the Clinton era was the day the Money Laundering and Financial Crimes Strategy Act of 1998, PL 105-310 October 30, 1998 hit the stands, and Slick Willie issued a strategy per congressional demand. Bottom line: prohibitionism spiked with commie asset-forfeiture does more damage than anything the Dems can manage. Plçus the only reason anyone supports the Dems is to protect choice (all fertile women) and to annoy the Landover Baptist prohibitionists controlling the Go-Pee.
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"Everyone who says Trump is worse
is in the tank for Hillarythinks mean words are worse than illegal and murderous actions, I.e. they are moral reprobates. -
Is Trump supposed to get credit for only promising to do illegal and murderous things, because he hasn't been in government yet to actually do them? That's also ignoring the illegal/sketchy things he's done in business, or his description of routinely sexually assaulting women.
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Every non-vote for Trump is a vote for Hillary. We've been over this.
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MORE PROOF YOU'RE ALL TRUMP SUPPORTERS!!
/weekend troll -
Indeed. We should pay attention to what they say rather than what they actually do. Shreek and John are free from bias as well - heck, they both support libertarians!
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What will you miss most about the Obama years?
"The foolish, momentary optimism some people had that nothing could be as bad as the Bush years."
---Nick Gillespie
Amen to that.
And it's about to get even worse.
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Shikha Dalmia
Shikha Dalmia is a senior analyst at Reason Foundation.
Who are you voting for? There has never been a time when the Libertarian candidate has been so superior to the two sordid mainstream offerings. But this time I am seriously contemplating going with Hillary Clinton (provided she gets no worse) for the simple reason that there is no more important task than defeating Donald Trump.Commentariat is utterly shocked at this development.
Even though she admits Johnson is leaps and bounds better than both, somehow she still think her vote could tip the balance and Trump must not win. Get the fuck out of my face with that.
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Chapman, too.
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And Stephanie Slade, the managing editor. The anti-Trumpiness around here becomes more understandable.
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Dalmia is not very bright as tree bulbs go, so no point in assailing her with the multiplier effect of spoiler votes (math required) or the lengthy proof that mystical looter prohibitionism is the main driver (or large contributor) behind every financial disaster (induction, research). But if this were 1970, with no LP, I'd be with her voting for choice and against the life-begins-at-erection prohibitionists. Voting GO-Pee endorses girl-bullying and financial collapse. Voting Dem says that communism is preferable to bullying, even with slower collapse. Voting libertarian shows you can simplify fractions, read laws and banking reports and handle logic from induction to generalization--provided only that you also value your life.
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Voting Dem = faster collapse.
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Voting Dem = faster Civil war.
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KMW FTW.
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"There has never been a time when the Libertarian candidate has been so superior to the two sordid mainstream offerings. But this time I am seriously contemplating going with Hillary Clinton (provided she gets no worse) for the simple reason that there is no more important task than defeating Donald Trump."
----Shikha Dalmia
Trump Derangement Syndrome, thy name is Shikha.
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Trump will invade Mexico, and then Canada.
Deirdre McCloskey does TDS right.
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What will you miss most about the Obama years? His eloquence and his adult common sense.
Oh, Deirdre. This line (among several others) had me spitting coffee when I read it in the mag.
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No! Not Deirdre McCloskey!
Whomever the Libertarian candidate was. I forget who it was. Semper fi.
Ouch. -
What do you mean?
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I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I don't know what I was thinking.
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Deirdre's great. They should get her to contribute more regularly. And to start blogging here.
She's fierce!
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As long as she sticks to economics.
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Natch.
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Deirdre's great
What will you miss most about the
Obama years? His eloquence and his adult common sense.Durrrdra sounds like she eats paint chips.
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Seriously, Hillary will appoint civil libertarians to the Court.
*facepalm*
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You just don't understand.
Civil libertarian = ends first and second amendments.
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Who are you voting for?
"Trump. Hillary Clinton is a sociopath who almost certainly would commit United States conventional forces to war with some combo of China, Russia, and Iran—possibly all three. Donald Trump is merely an ass clown. He will not be the first I've voted for, thanks to the red/blue duopoly. There is also the very good possibility that Trump would be satiated—overwhelmed, even—with a single term in office while Clinton would do or say anything to secure the vital affirmation of re-election"
----Jeff A. Taylor
There's a shocker.
Either Taylor is so objective, I thought he had TDS, or I'm so anti-Hillary, objectivity looks anti-Trump to me.
Either way, I'm surprised.
It was those articles about Trump's campaign people and supporters behaving like brownshirts that threw me.
Jeff Taylor is one heck of an objective journalist if he can write like that about a candidate he supports (however reluctantly).
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Hillary won't make it through one term. She's practically a zombie now. Has nobody noticed how few and short her public appearances are?
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Here's hoping.
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Even FDR was campaigning more in October 1944 than Hillary is in October 2016. He died less than six months after the election.
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The correct question is WHAT are you voting for:
a) looter coercion, or
b) individual rights?
The laws are there even after the looters have been killed by their buddies or rotted of natural causes. -
Ken,
Is there anyone who thinks Trump is worse than Clinton who doesn't have, in your opinion, Trump Derangement Syndrome? It seems that way from the comments, and that doesn't point toward the lack of objectivity resting with anyone other than yourself.
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Thaddeus Russell:
" I think it's important to make a statement that a woman can be president."
I don't know who Thaddeu Russell is and I want to keep it that way.
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Your loss. Also, check your sarcasm meter.
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You're right.
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He gave one of the best answers out of the bunch; he also seems - compared to others - to have his head screwed on straight as far as recognizing the whole "Better" is not "Good"-situation being presented
I am alarmed by the possibility of a war with China (Trump) and a war with Russia (Clinton), by the proposal to register Muslims in a database (Trump) and the actual ongoing surveillance of all citizens (Clinton), by the idea of building a wall on the border (Trump) and the actual ongoing building of a fence on the border (Clinton), by the possibility of the president using nuclear weapons in a fit of pique (Trump) and the expansion of a global U.S. military empire (Clinton)...Do I need to go on?
Most of his answers were mocking the way the questions were being asked.
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Russell is an emeritus professor of the University of America is the Cause of All Problems. Anwar Al Awlaki was a despicable pile of human shit and even joking about voting for that theocratic totalitarian would be beyond acceptability for anyone except possibly Charles Manson.
Russell's criticisms of American foreign policy are in many ways quite accurate. It's the complete absence of criticism of regimes as hideous as North Korea and Iran that makes me suspect that his hatred of America trumps his dedication to liberty. If North Korea is building nuclear weapons paid for by starving its own citizens then it's American sabre rattling that is the cause. Kim is merely reacting to the threat of American invasion rather than implementing the lunatic principles of communism to keep his own people under his thumb. Only America pretends that there are foreign threats to gain acceptance of restrictions on liberty by its people.
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Provided she get no worse.!!!!!... Jesus what fuck does Clinton Inc. have to do? Eat a live baby on TV?
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I don't think anyone mentioned the Clinton Foundation in the entire survey.
Taylor mentioned Hillary undermining FOIA requests.
These people seem to live in a parallel universe where libertarianism matters but taking money from foreign governments while Secretary of State doesn't matter.
There's this thing called legitimacy. Everyone seems to take it for granted right up until the government doesn't have it anymore.
Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.
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Bang that legitimacy drum, Ken! Bang it until their fucking eardrums bleed.
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Corruption? In government??
How will the United States survive this!?
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Corruption has always been a problem.
It hasn't always been elected to the White House after being exposed.
Whole different animal.
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Ken, we're not supposed to give a shit once we all understand how pervasive it is.
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Pave paradise, and put up a parking lot.
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Nothing but flowers.
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I voted for Bernie in the New York primary and I'll probably fill in the blank for Jill Stein, the Green candidate, on November 8. (Yeah, I know, they're both bad on religious liberty too, but at least Stein is forthrightly anti-war, and besides, she doesn't claim to be libertarian.)
That's got to be the most tortured reasoning so far.
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Makes perfect sense to any totalitarian altruist infiltrator. Death-worshippers have integrity too.
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Hank, I get the sense that you're actually trying to make a point, and not trying to troll us with gibberish. However, for the life of me, I can't parse any meaning out of the words you have posted in your comment. What's a "totalitarian altruist infiltrator" and what's a "Death-worshipper"? What does that have to do with Jill Stein and/or Bernie?
I'm not trying to be an ass, but I just can't make heads or tails of your comment.
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Thaddeus Russell:
the possibility of the president using nuclear weapons in a fit of pique
TDS
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I will agree with you on this one, SIV. That's just good old-fashioned pants-shitting.
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Literally any criticism of Trump is TDS to you huh?
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Regarding the Hilary voters - how the fuck can you possibly support someone who flat out tells you she would like to gut the Constitution?
I think GJ/Weld have squandered a golden opportunity, but I'm still going to vote for them. How is this even a question for libertarians?
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I suspect the libertarians voting for Clinton or Trump are still thinking in terms of voting against the greater evil, despite the fact that their vote almost certainly won't matter.
I generally agree with KMW on the pointlessness of voting (especially here in MN), but I'm still going to vote Johnson/Weld just to help increase his numbers.
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I vote for the LP to make sure the LP stays around. Period. As you say, voting for president in MN is totally pointless (see: Mondale), but I'm happy to at least have options.
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KMW openly scoffed at people who think voting is at least "fun."
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You must maintain a sense of humor when you choose the form the Destructor.
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And at least one claims she is going to appoint civil libertarians to the courts!
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"How is this even a question for libertarians? "
They aren't libertarians.
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Chief Justice Roberts totally supports gutting the Constitution except in very narrowly defined cases. He's joined by at least five other justices who believe that the Constitution must be interpreted in a way that legitimizes the "will of the people" as manifested by a legislative majority.
Randy Barnett and Richard Epstein are outliers on constitutional interpretation. Neither will ever get near the Supreme Court except as lawyers presenting a losing case. Damon Root's book "Overruled" shows the basic arguments of judicial restraint versus judicial activism better than anything else I've read on the subject. He's also the sanest contributor to Reason.
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Grasping the law-changing effect of spoiler votes, even if it does involve fractions and proportions, makes voting libertarian sensible for anyone with an 8th-grade education. Understanding the causal nexus between declaring beer (in These States) or cocaine (everywhere south of Brownsville) a felony and then suffering horrible economic collapse complete with totalitarian enactments, massive unemployment and (usually) war is--thanks to internet access to online newspaper records--accessible to anyone who survived junior high.
This is hardly the time to quail and surrender. The case for voting libertarian is so strong that anyone but a total vidiot can understand. All it takes os turning off the teevee for about an hour. -
OMG I CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE HOW MUCH REASON IS IN THE BAG FOR HILLARY CLINTON!!
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Okay, it's true...they're not in the bag, per se. But there is a clear preference for Hillary in those answers.
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I don't think preference is the right word - very few seem to want Hillary to be president. More like grudging acceptance.
And I don't think that disqualifies anyone from being a libertarian, either. Neither Clinton or Trump is good from a libertarian perspective. But Clinton probably aligns with most of the respondents culturally better than Trump does, so being more comfortable with her is at least understandable.
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It's also devil you know vs devil you don't. The phrasing of "alarming" biases it towards the unknown.
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Does Kerry Howley not return Reason's calls anymore?
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"Seriously, Hillary will appoint civil libertarians to the Court."
HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHA
Thank you I needed to laugh before I go deal with a car salesman.
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Yeah, Hillary's second consideration in picking Supreme Court nominees will be their hostility to our Second Amendment rights. I guess whoever said that doesn't think the Second Amendment is a civil right?
Incidentally, Hillary's first consideration in picking a Supreme Court nominee will be how much money various interested parties have donated to the Clinton Foundation.
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She's already said her litmus test is overriding Citizens United, i.e. gutting the First Amendment.
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Sorry it was Deirdre McCloskey. I was just hoping it was a joke. There is no way Shillary appoints civil libertarians to the bench. And if she does it would be an unhappy accident for her.
I'm not sure in what universe any libertarian could believe that Clinton would nominate any person to the Court who would seek to limit her power.
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I'm not convinced she wasn't joking. Some of her other responses were so over-the-top ridiculous.
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Progressive dictionary:
Civil rights = abortion, affirmative action, Title IX, and transgender bathroom use. -
McCloskey's a transsexual. Her definition of "civil rights" may not be congruent with yours.
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I'd give you a harder time about how generalizing this answer is (and wow the presumptions) but at least you pro-noun'd correctly.
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Yeah, except for the fact that she's throwing multiple civil rights into the fire already, and we know that based on what she wrote. The only question is if she was simply joking, or if she really thinks that Hillary justices might be pro "civil rights" that she supports"
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And "pro nouned correctly"? Let's say "I pro nouned wisely"
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i won't miss Hugo Chavez, oops I mean Obama, at all. He is a completely despicable human who is a barely disguised third world dictator who sees himself as some sort of near holy blue blood royalty. A total POS. It is alarming how much praise he gets on here. His attempts to bring criminal justice reform were nothing more than efforts to stoke racial divide and violence. He handed Iran nuclear bombs and paid them millions to advance their missile program. I would not be surprised to see the US suffer a nuke bomb within the next 5 years due to this traitor. He has 0 belief in the constitution or any personal liberties other than abortion and gay marriage. Trump hysteria is overblown as he is too unfocused to ever accomplish anything. Hillary is a psycopathic deep state liar who will finish obama's destruction of personal freedoms and capitalism. And, please, don't feed me commentary from hypocrite Wash Post writers who we all know are hard core democrats.
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The mullahs don't want to die so they won't launch against the US. They're basically cowards who send 19 year old pimply faced boys to blow themselves up in the hope of getting laid in the next world. They don't ever blow themselves up. It's too much fun tyrannizing an entire country.
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That reminds me of Harry Browne's contention many years ago that we would almost certainly never see a nuclear war between the major world powers (the US, USSR, and China at the time,) because for the first time in history war would mean the ruling big shots dying right along with the ordinary citizens.
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because for the first time in history war would mean the ruling big shots dying right along with the ordinary citizens.
Sure, if your history doesn't go back more than a century or so, tops.
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because for the first time in history war would mean the ruling big shots dying right along with the ordinary citizens.
Sure, if your history doesn't go back more than a century or so, tops.
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Observe that the Republican declined to say we should have abortion banned and the economy further collapsed by Palin, Human Torch, Romney and that other superstitious slimeball. At least Obama proved the Dems were no longer run by the Klan (which went over to the GOP in 1928). And electing a Grrl, even one smarter and more competent than Trump AND all of God's Own Prohibitionists thrown in for good measure (which ain't saying much) will still be a better outcome than letting The Go-Pee (in a Dixie cup or be fired) party survive. At least the death sentence for weed and abortions won't be brought back. Brazil's president was just impeached by a papist mob for letting girls have the morning after pill.
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You're off your meds, huh?
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Thank you for being unafraid to speak the plain and obvious truth.
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Shikha Dalmia
"Who are you voting for? There has never been a time when the Libertarian candidate has been so superior to the two sordid mainstream offerings. But this time I am seriously contemplating going with Hillary Clinton (provided she gets no worse) for the simple reason that there is no more important task than defeating Donald Trump.
Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming? Trump is the closest thing to a tyrant that America has seen, given his open contempt for all forms of checks and balances: Congress, courts, media, basic norms of human decency. Trump has the soul of a Third World potentate, just with less discipline and finesse. If Hillary digs the soft tyranny of the regulatory state, he has a taste for the hard tyranny of the police state. Both are bad, but he poses an imminent threat to the republic. She is like a slow advancing cancer, and therefore holds out some hope for a cure.
...
What will you miss most about the Obama years? Obama's good looks and personal charm, since his brains are overrated (especially by him) and his public policies wrongheaded."No surprise there that you were voting for Hillary. If you think you are being coy, you are not.
Trump is bad. He might not get to do all the stupid shit he says he would do. Hillary is really really bad and she will get to every last thing she says and more.
Nice to see you had nothing bad to say about Obama. Wrongheaded=right central planning but incorrect execution.
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Good news: Shikha's changed her mind! You've convinced her.
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Everyone who knows you or interacted with you for any period of time hates you.
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No, they just forget about me. :(
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Hey now. Let's not be having any Dalmia Derangement Syndrome. She's awful, and more, but she did say sarcastic things about Obama. Credit where credit's due.
Stay with us, man, we've seen Suderman and you don't wanna go down that road!
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Well this article was slightly more heartening than I thought it was gonna be.
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It showed that Reason finally went the way of SaTURDay Night live under constant social pressure from the Kleptocracy, just a the objectivist movement was infiltrated by creeping mystical conservatism. But the other girl bullying beer-banning bigots--with the prayer rugs and the suicide vests--have occupied the niche the Red Republicans soiled after Herbert Hoover. Mystical warmongering looter prohibitionists are now a drug on the market, easily replaced by something better.
If there were a realer LP mag out there I'd subscribe, but in the meantime, no way I am going to settle for second best with my vote or my money. -
Maybe I was wrong above. I still can't make heads or tails of any of your comments, except that they seem to be filled with supposed insults (?) against certain factions of people. Perhaps conservatives, muslims, and the government? It also appears that you don't much care for Reason because of these groups?
Anyway, feel free to get back to us with an English translation of your gibberish when you get a chance.
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It all makes sense...
To him.
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I still don't get the whole "I won't vote because my vote doesn't matter" line of thinking. It's true enough that any individual vote is unlikely to influence an election outcome, but if everyone used that as a reason to not vote, then one vote could decide the election. More realistically, if a few thousand people used that reasoning as an excuse not to vote, it could certainly swing an election. Voting encompasses a transition between individual action and aggregate action - I don't know why it's so hard for some people to buy into that.
But influencing who wins isn't the only reason for voting - there is real value in lots of people visibly signaling their preferences, even for a loser. It's not a panacea for moving the major parties in a more liberty friendly direction but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Given how low cost voting is (I go before work and it's never taken me more than 10 minutes), I really don't see a good reason to note do it.
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Agreed. My vote almost certainly doesn't matter, especially since I live in a VERY blue state, but I'm voting anyway because otherwise I'm perpetuating the same sort of self-fulfilling prophecy as those people who only vote D/R because third party "has no chance of winning".
If you vote, there's a very small chance of it mattering in a concrete way. If you don't vote, there is no chance of it mattering.
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That's usually used as a secondary excuse. KM-W mentions the moral complicity she bears if she participates in the process.
I follow a "voting for thee, but not for me" ethos. If you are the kind of person who votes, I probably have a better chance of convincing you to vote your conscience or vote LP/third party than to drop voting altogether. But I have too many objections to the process to do it myself, outside of extraordinary circumstances. I may still vote Johnson this year if his poll numbers are still 7-8% on election day, so I can say I 'helped' get the LP its 5%. Or I'll lie and say I did.
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"If you vote, there's a very small chance of it mattering in a concrete way. If you don't vote, there is no chance of it mattering."
The 'p' values on voting would not come close to passing even the most liberal significance testing. In a democracy of this size, only block voting matters.
Which isn't to say you shouldn't vote, just that it should for be reasons other than influencing the outcome of an election.
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"The 'p' values on voting would not come close to passing even the most liberal significance testing"
The statement you quoted is still true.
I'm not sure why you think some statistical handwaving to point out that the chance is infinitesimal is worth putting out at all.
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The statement you quoted is still true.
Depends on the definition of "mattering." I think not voting matters because I'm not saddled with the metaphorical stench of having voted for one of the buffoons on the ballot (including Johnson and Stein). I also think it is a better tool in making a statement to anybody who is interested in talking politics with me. I can explain to them why I didn't vote and how I got from "lesser of two evils" to requiring somebody to earn my vote.
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When I make the case for principled non-voting, it's on the basis that participation adds legitimacy to the government--even when you vote against it.
If they use your participation to claim a mandate and justify doing horrible things to you, then participating is like carrying wood for the gallows they want to hang you on.
I would love to be a principled non-voter. In Libertopia, hardly anyone will vote because the outcome of elections won't matter to most people. They matter now because who gets in can do so much damage to each of us and our lives.
Hillary wants to take away our Second Amendment rights. She wants to institute single payer. I'd love to be able to do the Gandhi thing and turn the other cheek with that--but I've rarely been able to withstand the temptation.
Part of it is that I still want to believe that America can be fixed with the right leadership.
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If they use your participation to claim a mandate and justify doing horrible things to you, then participating is like carrying wood for the gallows they want to hang you on.
That only follows if you vote for the person who wants to hang you, so to speak. Voting libertarian actually gives you a chance to voice a preference something different.
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The LP is absolutely illegal in Brazil, and the people are forced at gunpoint to vote for one of 33 fascist, communist and prohibitionist parties. The elected mayors of the three richest cities all came in AFTER "none of the above" in the vote count. Once latinos kill enough crooked judges (and US "mentors") to get libertarian parties on the ballot, I expect I'll again be moving to whichever country makes the most of the opportunity that non-voting suckers in the US are determined to waste.
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The Libertarian Moment is upon us! We can't even get some editors of a libertarian website/magazine to vote, and they use the space to recommend people reading said website/magazine to not vote. That's how we'll really make the Libertarian Moment happen - not voting for it.
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It is testimony to the Kleptocracy's power to turn whatever it touches, even what was once a proud libertarian magazine, into a turd sandwich.
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Congrats, Hank, on posting an intelligible comment.
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I'm gong to miss all the condescending "teachable moments" from the Obama administration.
You know: like Obamacare falling apart.
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Good answers. This was a fun read. Thanks, KM-W and everyone who participated!
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Agreed. I'm not aware of any other publication that does something like this.
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I have to admire Chapman. To openlu admit that you are gonna vote for a fucking psychopath takes some balls. It certainly explains the quality of his articles.
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One of the local talk show radio hosts, John Kobylt, here in LA. pointed out something about HRC that couldn't put my finger on.
When confronted by making an error (we all do that) she reacts in a bizarre way. She doesn't even circle the wagons like the police unions do with a bad shoot. She counter attacks immediately with guns ablazin'. I don't think she could beat a halfway smart 6 yo in a game of chess.
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Donald Trump definitely raped a 13-year old girl because she said he did. What a pig!
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I want to go on record asserting that every sexual assault survivor deserves to be believed.
And I see no obvious irony in that.
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If I'm reading you correctly you think that allegations of rape should actually be proven and that people carrying "Bill Clinton is a rapist" signs to HRC rallies may be dealing with other more personal demons. I agree.
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All I'm saying is that being president is about policy.
What presidents do in their private lives is really no concern, and, frankly, all this judging on their private lives is really keeping good people from running for office.
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Private lives reflect character. Harassment from gold diggers is not evidence about character. Testimony from the FBI chief etc is good evidence of character as it is realized in office.
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I can see how there's a difference in opinion on "most alarming". It's the devil you know vs. the devil you don't. But, my god, what's this reverence for Obama? The only answer to "What will you miss most about the Obama years?" is: "Nothing." Or, at least, something sarcastic like Mollie Hemingway's answer. The man belongs in the pantheon of worst president of the last century with Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and Bush II.
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But he did crush hope which is admirable. Cynicism is an important lesson.
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Wilson, FDR,and LBJ were dead during or shortly after being president. Bush II, for all his flaws, has the grace to stay out of the limelight. Obama will be holding court over us for another decade or two.
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Or four.
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People put too much stock in appearances. He spoke calmly and was reasonably witty and clever (albeit partially supported by teleprompter), but that doesn't make him a calmer or more measured President.
We don't get to see how the president governs, only how he TALKS ABOUT how he governs.
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Also, just the usual presidential nostalgia. Previous presidents usually seem better than upcoming-current presidents, especially when comparing to previous presidents from the same party. Obama>Clinton, anyone?
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"The usual presidential nostalgia" was pretty well missing during Obama's coronation, when more of the staff actually had the balls to admit they were voting Democratic and no one found anything flattering to say about Bush (who was, of course, a piece of shit, but not in any way that is distinctive from his predecessor or successor).
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I do wonder how condescending petulance is charming.
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Ask the bitter clingers.
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There are sooooo many places God's Own Prohibitionists could go to whine about the Kenyan kicking sand in poor little Sarah and Mitt's faces--in the middle of the worst asset-forfeiture depression since Herbert Hoover was ordered by God to kill hippies and darkies to make way for christian altruism. I almost wish the Human Torch had won, just to watch angry mobs hunt down every last Republican as a source of protein. Today's Sinfest.net cartoon sums it up.
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So only Chapman for Hillary and a handful for Trump? Well, I guess the contributors don't have an Obama-type to vote for this time around, like my memory distinctly tells me they voted for en masse back in 2008.
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Way to hold a grudge FOE. Keep in mind that Obama's opponent in 2008 was "get off my lawn" John McCain.
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Correction:
Obama'sThe communist party's opponent was the "death to hemp kinpins" and "asset-forfeiture Hoovervilles" and "faith-based appointees to ban abortion" Prohibition party. Remember? Doesn't anyone here read laws? -
There's only three people in this survey who declared an intention to vote for a major candidate - Massie, Taylor, and Chapman. Chapman is voting for HRC and he's the only regular contributor to Reason in that group.
On the other hand, twelve regular contributors preferred HRC compared to just two who preferred Trump. (Maybe thirteen depend on how you interpret ENB's answer) Only Jacket and Sullum (maybe ENB) registered no preference between the two.
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While I hate Trump as much as anyone, I think people considering Hillary need to keep in mind accountability. The reason Hillary is more of a problem is that she is part of the establishment and she will be more able to implement her horrible policies with much less resistance. She'll have very little resistance in the media. Trump will have nothing but resistance.
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"Little resistance"? Hillary will get 100% support from the media, just as Obama did.
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Well I was including talk radio into that which is much better than tv news.
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To me - this is the most powerful pro-Trump argument. Pretty weak sauce when you think about it - but this is where we are
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Enemy of my enemy is my friend, and all that.
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We should probably all take the test ourselves:
Who are you voting for?
Probably Gary Johnson, however, in a deep blue state like California, I'm afraid voting for Johnson won't get my middle finger high enough in the air to where Sacramento can see it. If there's a better way to use my vote to express my disgust with progressives for using political correctness as a cover to justify Sacramento's style of authoritarian socialism, better than using it to vote for Donald Trump, somebody please let me know--and soon.
Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming?
Hillary Clinton took money from foreign governments while she was the Secretary of State. If Trump were a communist or a Nazi, that would make him more alarming, but he's none of those. If Hillary gets in, single payer will be a foregone conclusion and our Second Amendment rights will be under siege--but those are secondary considerations. Once Hillary Clinton abused her office to enrich herself and her family at the expense of America's security interests, all the other issues became relatively unimportant.
Hillary Clinton is a threat to the government's legitimacy.
"Who did you vote for in 2012?"
Mitt Romney because Obama was so fundamentally hostile to free market capitalism.
What will you miss most about the Obama years?
Nothing. What I'll miss least is progressives using Obama's race as an excuse to disregard criticism of the progressive's public policy agenda.
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I will vote for limited government by voting for Gary Johnson just as I did it 2012. I'm not enthusiast about Johnson and even less so about Weld. But he has no xhance of winning anyways. Hillary is most alarming for accountability reasons I explained above. I will miss throwing Obama's actions into the faces of people I knew voted for him, but will not miss his policies.
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Who are you voting for?
I typically enjoy voting in California because of the propositions. I like to see how close I am to being 100% opposite of the electorate. But, I might skip this year. If I do vote, it will either be Johnson or no one.Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming?
Clinton. But, mostly because of the media. If they were more even-handed, it would be a tough choice. Four more years of unaccountability is more alarming than Trump getting it from every direction (media, Democrats, and Republicans).Who did you vote for in 2012?
Johnson.What will you miss most about the Obama years?
Nothing. -
I'm afraid voting for Johnson won't get my middle finger high enough in the air to where Sacramento can see it.
Agree 100%.
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Who are you voting for?
I haven't voted since 1996, and I'm keeping the streak alive this year.
Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming?
Hillary Clinton. She's everything old-school liberals believed Richard Nixon was.
What will you miss most about the Obama years?
Well, in 2014 the Spurs bounced back from a crushing NBA Finals defeat to come back and exact revenge against Miami. That happened during the Obama years, so I'm counting it.
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I'm voting for Johnson.
I'm alarmed that more people aren't rejecting Clinton because of her blatant corruption. I'm alarmed that Trump's nationalism has been embraced so widely and enthusiastically. I'm alarmed that so many people continue to buy into the two party choices despite disliking both major candidates so much.
I voted Johnson in 2012.
Obama has allowed the marijuana legalization movement to grow without too much federal interference. I hope that continues.
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Who are you voting for?
Gary Johnson, without a doubt. Some of his stances are idiotic and his VP choice doesn't give a shit about free association or the 2A but he's still head and shoulders above the other two.Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming?
Hillary Clinton is a despicable human being that participated in overthrowing a government and destabilizing an entire region. She has no respect for the right of citizens to know what government is doing and she is openly hostile to the 1A and 2A to the point she has stated it will be a litmus test for judicial appointments. She has no respect for the rule of law or due process evidenced by participating in themadmin that murdered Americans without even charging them with crimes. Furthermore, she is almost certainly,compromised to foreign powers and will accept blackmail as the cost of keeping it quiet."Who did you vote for in 2012?"
Gary JohnsonWhat will you miss most about the Obama years?
Not a thing about him. He has been an abject failure in everything that can be measured on a liberty scale. -
WHAT are you voting for is an intelligent question that identifies the asker as capable of abstract reasoning. WHO is more suitably put to bononos, baboons or chimpanzees. Come to think of it... one of those Kleptocracy looters does remind me of an orangutan.
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Who are you voting for?
I'm probably not voting in the general election. I haven't voted in a presidential general election since 2000.
I did vote for Donald J Trump in the primary (and Ron Paul in the 2008 and 2012 primaries). If I'm in my polling precinct during the open voting period I might go in and cast a vote for Darrell Castle just to shore up my yokel-cred.Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming?
Hitlery Kkklinton, and you should too.
"Who did you vote for in 2012?"
No one in the general election, I don't vote in them anymore.
What will you miss most about the Obama years?
My life experiences from age 46-54. I've had a lot of fun, made a decent amount of money, known some great people and seen wonderful things. Obama had nothing to do with it other than marking the era in question.
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As such a long standing commenter here I'll weigh in.
Who:
If I get around to registering (recently moved) Johnson, otherwise most likely I'm going to go home and drink.
Alarming:
Depends on what we mean by alarming. Hillary strikes me as predictable, she'll continue the status quo. I don't take her to be an idelogical person but instead someone self interested and will follow the poles. Her lack of deeply held conviction might not be a bad thing considering what he professes to hold true. Trump is a great unknown and has show serious personality defects when it comes to a roll requiring someone to be patient and even handed. I'd probably say Hillary is less alarming just because I feel like we can more easily predict and prepare for it.
2012:
I pulled Johnson in the booth.Miss about Obama years:
They were good years personally for me, I finished under-grad right before his inauguration. During his time I went to grad school met my future wife started my career got married etc etc. In terms of politically? It's been fun badgering my more hippy friends over Obama's interventionism.
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Good idea Ken, although I imagine most of the reason commentariat will all be saying the same thing. Oh well, here we go:
Who are you voting for?
GayJay, bless his little libertarian-lite heart. Although as a resident of the Glorious Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, I am slightly tempted to vote for Trump for the sole purpose of cancelling out one of the many dead voters who manage to cast a ballot for Team Blue from Philadelphia every two years. I won't succumb to this lurid temptation, though, although it's fun to fantasize about.Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming?
Hillary has turned evil into a banal, quotidian, everyday kind of thing, which is much more terrifying than Trump's spasmodic populist outbursts. Plus, Trump will be checked and Hillary will be given free reign by both the media and the political class.Who did you vote for in 2012?
GayJay. I liked him a lot more back then as he opened his mouth a lot less.What will you miss most about the Obama years?
All the racial healing, of course (joke stolen from Instapundit who stole it from some other guy whose name I forget)Sorry if I just repeated the same shit that 20 other commenters posted before me while I was typing this.
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Who are you voting for?
Probably Jill Stein. I'm considering HRC. IF I'm drunk or feeling particularly anarchistic on Election Day, Trump.
Which major party candidate is the most alarming?
Seriously? WTF... Trump. Of course.
Who did you vote for in 2012?
Obama, because he ended the Iraq War. I was a single issue voter.
What will you miss about the Obama years?
Obama derangement Syndrome. People afflicted with it are hilarious.
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Fuck off.
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Honest question- what does the first 100 days of a stein presidency look like in your mind?
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If you're looking for honesty, you're barking up the wrong tree.
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"Obama, because he ended the Iraq War. I was a single issue voter"
We already knew you're stupid, no need for proof. But thank you anyway.
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Ha, perfect timing on the new Krayewski article.
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Or socialists... I left out National Socialists. To them it is Hitler or Stalin personally, whereas to the entrenched kleptocracy it is whoever reminds one of Hitler or Stalin.
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This election is good evidence that we really screwed things up with our Constitution. And copying us, Switzerland as usual fixed our mistakes and did it right.
They don't even have a single elected President. Just a committee that rotates that job and other cabinet jobs. We should make our electoral college more powerful/permanent - direct election of them with their names on the ballot and they then fight or figure out how to run the executive branch for the next four years. The whole notion of a single presidency is an antiquated relic of a bygone time when we had to have something that looked like an elective monarchy because we were the only democracy at the time.
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Making the electoral college more powerful would also make third parties and independents more powerful. I can easily see an 'Independent' slate of electors beating both a D and an R slate in a lot of states.
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I would prefer the Swiss model for the US. But I'm not sure it really is working better. Switzerland is showing many of the same political problems the US is experiencin, and we have had a substantial head start on them.
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What domestic political problems are they having? Is it more the consequence of being surrounded by the EU (in which case I'd argue that they've done a pretty good job of maintaining their independence as a small landlocked country) or more structural?
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This.
Also, why haven't we increased the size of the house in the last hundred odd years? Our population has nearly doubled in that time and we've become underrepresented by our officials. It may be an effective way to fragment some of the cronyism and wealth being thrown at individual members of Congress and possibly bring in 3rd or 4th parties to boot.
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A friend of mine is Swiss - he was telling me that they are required to have fallout sheltered in their homes or belong to some sort of shelter (apparently if you live in an apt without one you'd need to arrange payment to be part of a big group shelter). Since no one actually has much use for them - they apparently are just large storage units for wine and chocolate. I like the image of this.
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You're all wrong. The best system is an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take turns to act as a sort of executive-officer-for-the-week. But all the decisions *of* that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs. But by a two-thirds majority, in the case of more major matters.
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But I want the basis of my government to be some trollop walking out of the water and handing out a sword.
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Did they ask the "Alarming" question last time, or was that put in there as a specific placeholder for "INSERT TRUMP-AS-GOLDSTEIN RANT HERE". I think 2 people even said, "uh, Hillary sux, but she's sucked the same way for like 25 years so... no one's surprised"
I found it odd so few people bothered to note that on the one thing most libertarians often pretend to give a shit about - foreign conflicts - Hillary presents the clearest danger on. The ones who did make that point were mostly non-Reason people
It isn't an exaggeration to say that what you can expect from Hillary is Obama's 'a finger in everyone's pie' foreign policy - just more-muscular and quick to escalate. Her big complaint about most of the failures of the Obama admin is that he "didn't Go Big Enough". e.g. We're only facing a potential shooting war w/ Russia because we didn't 'take out Assad' fast enough.
The thing i find odd about the nature of the Q's is that they sort of belie the idea that "presidents don't matter as much as people think". I think a few people said something similar to this, but most played along with the idea that they *needed* to be "alarmed" about the coming president, or have things to "miss" about the departing ones. The option to go, "who cares? put a houseplant in the white house - we need libertarians in congress" wasn't really an idea left any room to coexist.
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I found it odd so few people bothered to note that on the one thing most libertarians often pretend to give a shit about - foreign conflicts - Hillary presents the clearest danger on. The ones who did make that point were mostly non-Reason people.
The fact that Hillary is also pro-tax, pro-regulation, pro-Obamacare, pro-SJW, anti-Citizens United, and anti-gun seems to get little attention.
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I wish we could attach probabilities to the fears that people are having about Hillary and Trump, to see how reasonable either is. IMO, most of not all of the fears people have about Trump are low probability events; there'a virtually no chance of a mass ethnic cleansing of the southwest, a nuclear confrontation, or a major war wth one of the world superpowers under trump were he to get elected.
OTOH, there is a good chance that corruption will qualitatively increase under Clinton, that our current foreign policy will escalate, that the Supreme Court's composition will move in an anti-1st and 2nd am direction, and that the current negative trends in government size, scope and accountability will continue and accelerate. I fail to see what high-probability negative events would happen under trump to compare to this.
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I haven't decided yet whether I'm going to view for Johnson, Trump, or just stay home. It depends on how important it is for me to stop Hillary.
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Who are you voting for?
Answer: Johnson, or No one
Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming?
Answer: Clinton. There is absolutely nothing that she's good on from a Libertarian perspective. She would drastically increase the size of government to regulate the economy. And she would likely surpass Obama in her use of executive power. On top of that she's an unrepentant hawk.
Who did you vote for in 2012? Gary Johnson. Except I was happier about it back then.
What will you miss most about the Obama years?
Nothing. But I guess that depends on what a President Clinton or a President Trump does in office.
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Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming?
I always answer questions like this with my own question. Who would be impeached and convicted in a heartbeat. The answer of course is Trump and that is what makes Clinton much more alarming.
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"Elizabeth Nolan Brown
Elizabeth Nolan Brown is an associate editor at reason.Who are you voting for? I will probably not vote—I'm not currently registered anywhere—but if I do, it will be for Johnson/Weld."
Emphasis mine.
Federal crimes FTW
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This election is the most bizarre seemingly drug addled dream ever. With a few exceptions (Shikha, Chapman) I found myself agreeing with the logic and rationale in the responses even when the results differed. I think this really tells us something about how truly awful the major party choices are.
I've just realized that this is the reincarnation of thd game of 'would you rather' that we would play as kids. One classic was: eat a bowl of scabs or take a bite of a turd.
I think at the end of the day, I want to see a trump presidency just for the sheer entertainment of it.
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I would like to see a Trump presidency too, but of Venezuela. I think that after voting for Chavez they deserve to be punished.
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While I don't find Obama as personally offlutting as some here do (like I don't feel like he's some huge a-hole in person) it seems that even the reason contributors in the article are suffering from a bit of amnesia about the last two terms. Very little mention of the 8 years of unprecedented spying and war along with the Obamacare debacle (which more than anything to me - drives home the fact that the constitution is indeed a worthless piece a paper). Are trump and Hillary so bad that when we adjust the scale in the graph all of this disappears? I'd say not.
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Obama is just a smug asshole.
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I want to see fruit sushi's response - or is he fully limited to the college beat?
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Robby Soave
Robby Soave is an associate editor at reason.Who are you voting for? I'm voting for Gary Johnson. The only thing that could change that is bureaucratic incompetence: I'm registered to vote in Michigan but am currently living in Virginia and moving to D.C. before the election. If I can find my ballot, I'll cast it for the Libertarian.
Which major-party candidate do you find most alarming? The "most alarming" designation is a race to the absolute bottom. At one point in my life, I thought President Obama was an "alarming" candidate; now I'd be positively giddy if he could serve a third term. Anyway, Trump is more alarming than Clinton. He's bad on everything, whereas Clinton is only bad on almost everything.
Who did you vote for in 2012? I cast an absentee ballot for Gary Johnson, though I'm not positive they counted it.
What will you miss most about the Obama years? His speeches. The man gives good speeches.
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Those I remember from when Reason was libertarian are voting for freedom and against coercion. I lapsed into apathy during the Clinton years because I had not understood the power of spoiler votes (6 to 36 times as effective for changing the law). I also had not understood the causes of financial panics: mystical prohibition and communist income tax laws (in other words, BOTH Kleptocracy parties). Now I am wide awake for the future. Even terminal nihilist Scott (Dilbert) Adams is coming around to the LP tickee:
12. I hereby change my endorsement from Trump to Gary Johnson, just to get out of the blast zone. Others will be "parking" their vote with Johnson the same way. The "shy Trump supporter" demographic just tripled.
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I'm nit too convinced that Adams is all that sharp.
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I'm not too convinced that Adams is all that sharp.
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Whoa squirrlzzzz way to blow it
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I think Scott Adams massages his groin area with testosterone cream. Sly Stallone does too. I have to give Scott credit for being among the first in the pundit class to recognise that Donald Trump would crush his Republican opponents.
So where can I get this cream?
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What i god's name are you blathering about?
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Steroids.
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Prescription only. The state doesn't trust you with your own testicles.
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If you live in a Blue state your vote is meaningless. If you live in a Red state your vote is meaningless, unless you vote for Gary Johnson and he covers the difference between the two candidates. In 2020 politicians scurrying around trolling for votes will be looking at libertarians in a very different way. Liberty leaning candidates will seem more reasonable to the establishment since they're primarily interested in winning.
The only votes not wasted are votes for a third party and only if that party can cover the difference between the major parties.
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Wow, so I went into that "Don't Vote" article, and you know what my biggest takeaway was? Agile Cyborg used to make REAL posts here. Holy shit! Also finally seeing that Tupla everyone talks about.
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Well this certainly is a list of a bunch of things Donald Trump would grab without asking permission.
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My answers:
Johnson. Despite his faults, there's no contest when the other choices suck so egregiously.
Clinton. Because she'd get a total pass from the press and the congress, and her critics will be dismissed as misogynists, whereas Trump would get to do little of his agenda because he'd be blocked at every turn. Authoritarians are always worse when they are unfettered.
Johnson in 2012.
What I will miss most about Obama is his unapologetic machismo. Of course the first black president would be equal parts Shaft and Samuel L Jackson, with an added dash of Mr. T. What else could we have expected? But seriously, what I will miss most is the expression on proggie faces when I would tell them about that awful Bush with his kill list and how he blew up a kid eating breakfast because of who his father had been...and then slapping my forehead and saying, "Oh wait! I got them confused --- that was Obama who killed the kids, not Bush!"
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Bob Barr had the best comment: "What will you miss most about the Obama years? Joe Biden's gaffes."
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joe biden died?
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who i will vote for:
gary johnson. i might add, it's not a protest vote, and i am not libertarian, nor would i normally vote for a libertarian for president.
who do i find most alarming?
trump. hillary is astoundingly horrible, and i look forward to the election being over so we can come together once again over how depressing it is that this was the best we could do. but it's not even close.
who i voted for in 2012:
romney. i'm not a republican either though.
what will i miss about the obama years?
the hope. i think few people ever become president with such an opportunity or desire to fight the good fight, and few have done more to kill the dwindling hope that remains in our political system. no, i'm also not a democrat.
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Shift key bro.
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never!
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Hurrrr, Trump r gunna nuke teh messicans!!!!
Lol. And these are the people lecturing the yokels about their ostensible lack of seriousness.
Don't despair, Resonoids! There's an off chance Trump will appoint Gary Johnson to defense secretary and the missile coordinates will end up in the antarctic.
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I believe Gary Johnson says it best that a "wasted vote" is a vote for someone you don't believe in. Not to say that those who vote for Trump or Clinton are throwing their votes away. Belief is a strong argument when voting your conscious. My belief in Johnson is as strong as those who support Clinton or Trump but when you tell me that I'm throwing my vote away on Johnson, now you've stepped over a line. Consider what's played out in the last few months then come back to me.
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Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job I've had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this - 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go to tech tab for work detail,,,,,,,
------------------>>> www.highpay90.com
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Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job I've had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this - 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go to tech tab for work detail,,,,,,,
------------------>>> www.highpay90.com
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Does Robby actually expect us to believe he isn't going to vote for Hillary. Really? Really?
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Does Robby actually expect us to believe he isn't going to vote for Hillary. Really? Really?
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Does Robby actually expect us to believe he isn't going to vote for Hillary. Really? Really?
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Does Robby actually expect us to believe he isn't going to vote for Hillary. Really? Really?
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Does Robby actually expect us to believe he isn't going to vote for Hillary. Really? Really?
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Does Robby actually expect us to believe he isn't going to vote for Hillary. Really? Really?
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Does Robby actually expect us to believe he isn't going to vote for Hillary. Really? Really?
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Does Robby actually expect us to believe he isn't going to vote for Hillary. Really? Really?
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Does Robby actually expect us to believe he isn't going to vote for Hillary. Really? Really?
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Does Robby actually expect us to believe he isn't going to vote for Hillary. Really? Really?
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Several of them are lying, or they're being half honest. Some will vote for GayJay in Washington D.C. and at the same time cast an absentee ballot for Hillary in another state they're registered in. A lot of liberals pull shit like that.
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My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do,
go to tech tab for work detail,,,,, www.careerstoday100.com
