Wow a couple from Hell. That filthy thought on FB simply shows what kind of people these are, always trying to cause trouble for the Palestinians, casting a bad light on them, so that the zionists can benefit from it in devious ways we may never know. Israel has this dubious reputation for placing low caliber human beings as their representatives, one reason I guess is because they know they are rabid enough to cause trouble, and act so dishonorably, and will say/do anything to keep the master plan going, attacking anyone who dares to speak out against the crimes of their fellow zionists. There is something about these two people that gives me the creeps.

Richard Boyd Barret must be very unpopular in the zionist world.

I hope he keeps speaking the truth and asking the right questions. I have no hope I’ll ever hear
an American leader speak so boldly.

Yonah, Thank you for reminding me of the bizarre mentality that in its obfuscation and raking the sand clear, leaves huge plain footprints with clear signatures. “Zero sum” between who? The Israeli gov’t shouts to the world that they have “no partner in Peace” while occupying the whole of Palestine and ceding only nominal “garbage pickup” to the so-called PA, who is banging down their door begging for a “free” 28% landlocked Bantustan. Those who look into these things a little have seen the pattern of Israel spurning all peace deals from any quarter in favor of a progressively voracious dispossession of Palestinians and a predatory oppression of their rights. So who is playing “zero-sum”? After 100 years of this game, “the jig is up”; “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” (- A. Lincoln) When the fastest growing Jewish organization in the U.S. is JVP and pro-BDS, this should be obvious, even to Zionists.

I have written to the green party thanking them for their brave stand and outlining why I feel such policies are needed.

As CIJA is attempting to have people write and document their opposition I hope other supportive Canadians do so as well.

No, not delayed until November, just delayed a few hours. I do not support BDS. I do not attack BDS as antisemitic, but I do not support it. The gap that has widened between my position and the position of Herzog for example compared to my support for Rabin, is what I study and analyze and wonder about and I wonder about the future. I do not stop reading Haaretz because a couple historians express their views and I went to hear Gideon Levy speak, maybe 6 years ago, not sure when, I agreed with everything he said, but I was “impressed” by his Israeli-ness, no real attempt to speak to anyone who does not agree with him, very Israeli compared to Beinart for example who is quite american.

I understand that this site is dedicated to BDS and I sit on the sidelines and watch while Bibi continues to lead the country. My cause right now is Gaza. Let Israel reach a modus vivendi with Gaza, despite Hamas, because Hamas is going to be in charge for the foreseeable future and I say, negotiate a modus vivendi with Gaza as represented by Hamas. I fear that it is domestic politics which holds Bibi back rather than principle or pragmatics on the issue of Gaza.

The political horizon vis a vis Jerusalem and the West Bank is far murkier than the clarity I have regarding Gaza.

It is really possible to hold hands with Black Lives Matter and disagree on Zionism. I won’t be holding hands with them anytime soon. Now, if BLM wishes to refuse to hold hands with Zionists, that’s their business. I’m an old fogey and my experience is different from yours and from the young people of color at BLM and that’s just the way the world is. The lack of realism on the part of Bibi and the right wing coalition that he sits atop is rather staggering. And I can dig the impulse that you have in favor of BDS and I accept most of the rhetoric of Shmuel regarding BDS, but i am of a different generation, with a different history than yours.

I cannot wish that the Jews never got into the territory/army business. (I have four branches of family and two were sawed off by the Nazis, one reached America and one reached Palestine. Those who oppose Zionism, in effect wish that three of the branches had been sawed off instead of only two.) It is great to imagine a world in which the Jews had remained a wondering people with portable nationality and it is a bit of a shame that martial arts became the organizing principle of Jewish nationality. But I cannot approve Zionism circa 1935 and reject Zionism circa 2016, not to the extent of BDS, I can’t. Because I approve of Zionism and disapprove of the settlement enterprise I am a spectator in comparison with those who either approve of BDS or approve of the settlements.

The goal of BDS is for some army to take over Lod Airport and remove the Israeli soldiers from Lod Airport and put it under the UN or something. I can’t support that. I don’t support that. And if BLM cannot hold hands with people who agree with me, well, they’ll find other people to hold hands with and people who agree with me, will have to figure out a way to work for peace in America (while opposing the removal of Israeli soldiers from Lod Airport.)

Gamal on fire!

Israel and the racist zionists fear truth. Truth is their sworn enemy.

There are many lies which could be told abput any state. There is no need to visit anywhere if all you need or want to do is spread lies or disinformation.

Nope… Israel wants people kept or kicked out so they can hide the truth.

I can’t blame. In the case of Israel the truth is brutal ugly immoral and criminal. They have to hide it.

“are you sadistic?”

Like most of the pro-Israel posters here, he exhibits sociopathic tendencies, but there is more than a touch of sadism to him, as well.

“but it is nonsense that Blacks are being targeted and it is nonsense that cop killings are in any way as big of a problem as Black on Black murders.”

You should go ahead and tell them that you know better than they do what they should be concerned about. People LOVE it when outsiders tell them how to think.

Yet they claim that Palestiniams aren’t living under an apartheid system and have their own government. Hmmm sure.

There is nothing democratic about Israel.

‘BLM knows how to read the whole Israel situation. They see reality and what these Jewish tribalists are trying to do.’

BLM intersectionality is basically progressives finally learning how to play chess… it’s just a unnarcissistic* way of thinking, it’s being ‘no longer chosen’

No more white feminists tears…

intersectionality it’s where Jill Stein can take Hillary apart…

Intersectional feminism finds a plethora of other biases (class, ethnocentric, heterosexist, etc) converging on and intersecting with them.

‘more profoundly of how one’s location in the social structure enables one to see, or prevents one from seeing.’

First black lives matter in our Jill l Stein pops the A – word

Jill Stein says no military support to the apartheid is really state:
Jerusalem Post headlines August 8, 2016

Canada’s Green party endorses BDS
Times of Israel headlines August 8, 2016

unnarcissistic* – uh oh… Time to start worrying!

That’s what I get for mixing ideas, eh?

Guilty of not loving the State of Israel with all of their hearts and minds. Guilty of crimes against fashion. Guilty of getting a bad haircut.

Or something silly.

“Tell us Mr t, where do you live, that isn’t stolen?”

I live in the land of my forefathers, who were the first humans on this continent.

“*no answer as Mr t heads for the high grass*”

No, I’m not one of the IOF cowards.

Libertarian Party apparently sees the I-P conflict as one between two equally powerful sides, and does not even talk about the huge difference in US taxpayer $ going to one side. Jill Stein is much less naive on the issue. I wish Mr. Dizard would have asked those Libertarians he talked to if aid to Israel should be cut, right along with the rest of US foreign aid. Aren’t the Libertarians against foreign aid? Yes: End all foreign military and economic aid. (Nov 2014)

pabelmont, the first link goes to the platform’s cover page. there is a dropdown up on top that says “platform” and from there go to “invest-divest” : link to policy.m4bl.org

there are 3 references to genocide. the relevant one is

The US justifies and advances the global war on terror via its alliance with Israel and is complicit in the genocide taking place against the Palestinian people. The US requires Israel to use 75 percent of all the military aid it receives to buy US-made arms. Consequently, every year billions of dollars are funneled from US taxpayers to hundreds of arms corporations, who then wage lobbying campaigns pushing for even more foreign military aid. The results of this policy are twofold: it not only diverts much needed funding from domestic education and social programs, but it makes US citizens complicit in the abuses committed by the Israeli government. Israel is an apartheid state with over 50 laws on the books that sanction discrimination against the Palestinian people. Palestinian homes and land are routinely bulldozed to make way for illegal Israeli settlements. Israeli soldiers also regularly arrest and detain Palestinians as young as 4 years old without due process. Everyday, Palestinians are forced to walk through military checkpoints along the US-funded apartheid wall.

the other 2 are in this paragraph:

Somalia has not only experienced extended military intervention as a result of AFRICOM but has been treated as an experimentation site for the U.S. devastating drone policy. The Democratic Republic of Congo as a region has had a long history of U.S. intervention that have coincided with some of the worst genocides in the world. Not only have U.S. backed African intervention armies committed atrocities but U.S. private companies extract the worlds wealth from Congolese soil. And as is true here, women and the most vulnerable in our communities pay the price of U.S. intervention and the accompanying genocides and civil wars. The U.S. must make room for African-led development and peace-making that is led by grassroots decision-making of the most marginalized and directly affected. We insist on African leaders and demand resources be made to begin the process of community-building at home.

“Maybe World Vision charity will reach them?”

Perhaps they would if your Gestapo wasn’t trying to gin up fake charges against World Vision.

do you think that’s funny? are you sadistic?

The president and CEO of World Vision Keith Jenkins says the group is investigating but, on their face, the numbers don’t support the scope of the alleged theft.

“World Vision’s cumulative operating budget in Gaza for the past ten years was approximately $22.5 million, which makes the alleged amount of up to $50 million being diverted hard to reconcile. Mohammad El Halabi was the manager of our Gaza operations only since October 2014; before that time he managed only portions of the Gaza budget. World Vision’s accountability processes cap the amount individuals in management positions at his level to a signing authority of $15,000.”

definitely an oxymoron. note how it doesn’t read “commitment to combatting racism and their Zionism.”

because clearly they are not committed to combatting racism in israel or else they wouldn’t be zionists.

Silamcuz, aka A4Tech, aka (briefly) Princess, aka Catalan, aka CraigSummers (in the Intercept threads, aka…

don’t forget rugal b!!!! btw, remember #6 of our comment policy?

6. No imposture. You can use any pseudonym you like, but if you represent yourself as someone you’re not, you’re outta here. – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

Tchoupitoulas, were you around when he let slip “here in israel”? tried to walk it back —

In fact, Raphael Lemkin, a Polish Jew, coined his term “genocide” in 1944, in reference to the mass murder of ethnic Armenians by the Young Turk government of the Ottoman Empire 1915-1923. R. Lemkin cited the mass annihilation of Armenians as a seminal example of genocide. By the way, to date, the Israel government has not recognized the Armenian Genocide as a historical fact.

BLM does NOT have cred among the masses. You guys are delusional if you think otherwise.

you don’t speak for the masses. or do you think you’re the voice of the silent majority?

it is nonsense that Blacks are being targeted

clueless!

nonsense that cop killings are in any way as big of a problem as Black on Black murders.

this reminds me of zionists deflecting off palestine by saying syria is worse. no one here is arguing black on black murder is not a problem in their community, it doesn’t mean there is not oppression built into our law, justice and incarceration systems (to name a few). there’s a LOT going on in a persons life before they become part of a black on black statistic.

common folk fighting the good fight

Anybody have the QUOTE from the “platform” of BLM? Perhaps “genocide” been “edited out” but the thing this essay links to doesn’t evidently contain “genocide”.

Yes, exactly right.

“…it falsely suggests American Jews – both of color and white – must choose between their commitment to combatting racism in the United States and their Zionism.”

Statements like this read like something out of bizarro world. Talk about cognitive disconnect.

I feel the author

powerful words dude.

talkback

“jewish fake activists”

you truly are am anti semitic [..].

BLM … given it’s unpopularity with the masses outside Manhattan and other tony districts.

hmm, i don’t really agree with that assessment of BLM’s popularity or lack thereof.

Kay , his correct name is , Richard Boyd Barret and yes he is not shy about putting it right in the zionists face.

Here is some info on that cretin with the smirk on her face.She is the wife of the ambassador who left his post last year.

“Israel’s embassy in Dublin has been in the headlines many times over the last few years, not only because of the tense relations between Jerusalem and Dublin, but also because of embarrassing provocations by Israel’s envoys at the mission, who try to think creatively when it comes to public relations (hasbara).

On Monday, ahead of the Christmas holiday, the embassy posted an image of the Virgin Mary to its Facebook page, accompanied by the following caption:

“A thought for Christmas… If Jesus and mother Mary were alive today, they would, as Jews without security, probably end up being lynched in Bethlehem by hostile Palestinians. Just a thought…….”

“The person who leads this provocative line in the embassy in Dublin is not only Ambassador Boaz Modai, but also his wife, Nurit Tinari Modai, who serves as deputy head of mission.

Tinari Modai made it into the headlines when she carried out a provocation during a Holocaust Rememberance Day ceremony in Dublin last year.

A few months ago, Israel’s Channel 10 published an email that Tinari Modai sent to senior Foreign Ministry officials in which she claimed that Israelis living in Ireland who criticize Israeli policy in the West Bank do it partly because of their sexual orientation.

Tinari Modai even suggested that the embassy should act against Israelis in Ireland who criticize Israel, targeting them personally by making sensitive information about them public.”

link to webcache.googleusercontent.com

fw, Lascaris says it’s been very difficult for human rights advocates to speak out on this issue yet you say “we” have little difficulty. could it be that pro palestine activists have little difficulty speaking out but generally speaking many human rights activists find advocating for palestine more challenging?

wrt the immediate practical significance i would think the green resolution backing bds would, as Lascaris points out, place the party in the forefront of human rights in canada thereby having more influence on public opinion and making the issue more challenging for Canada’s news media to ignore.

The ‘invocations’ – incantations, spells – used to beat back radicals who speak harshly of Israel have not lost their dark magical power as much as Marc might suppose. I looked the other day at what is happening to Joy Karega at Oberlin and had the impression that she is paying for her temerity with her career amid proclamations that anti-Semitism at Oberlin is at last being addressed. I wholly don’t share her false flag theories but I do think that it’s a free speech issue and do think that equally weird theories where Israel was not involved would not attract the same penalties or ‘invocations’.

Maybe World Vision charity will reach them?

it really pisses me off they control who enters palestine. palestinians should be able to invite /host whichever internationals they want. not to mention other palestinians. i won’t be getting used to this — ever.

The law is limited to Israeli citizens, and does allow for criminal charges.

i didn’t realize the law facilitated imposing criminal charges. hmm.

Anyone can pray anywhere in their hearts. What we”re not allowed to do is organise meetings, even for prayer, except on property which is ours or is put at our disposal by the owners. No difference between people who are Jewish and other people. The area commonly called Temple Mount is surely one of two things, either simply the private property of a Muslim religious association (as I would believe) or else the property of the Israeli government placed in the hands of the association for religious purposes. Either way, no one has a right to intrude for purposes that the association has not approved and it has no duty at all to approve things outside its normal remit. If people think that the Israeli Givernment does have a right to change a dispensation which it has created – it wasn’t just Dayan personally – and sometimes reaffirmed then he should petition the government accordingly. But the government has always had good reason even on its own terms to maintain the status quo, particularly that it has no wish to open up the question of a new Temple., indeed a strong aversion from the whole idea. What is revealed is an example, not of Muslim discrimination against Jews, but of the tensions within Zionism.

With reference to Dimitri Lascaris’ remark, “…it places us in the forefront of human rights in this country, on an issue with respect to which it has been very difficult for human rights advocates to speak out” –

On a related point of clarification: Many Canadian individuals and NGOs have, for years, been advocating for Palestinian human rights. We have little difficulty in speaking out, but politicians, for obvious politically expedient reasons, aren’t listening. Moreover, Canadian pro-Palestinian supporters can’t match the power, influence, and organizational muscle of the pro-Israeli side. On top of that, one can’t ignore the considerable influence on public opinion of Canada’s pro-Israel, corporate controlled news media.

In light of the above, and given Green party leader Elizabeth May’s determined opposition to the BDS resolution, what is the immediate practical significance of the party’s adoption of the resolution?

Exactly right, Mr. T.

Obama has always been a cruel hoax. It pains me how long it has taken folks to see this. The man cares first and foremost about himself. I find him disgusting.

I once heard this Jewish supremacist Abrams defend the settlement enterprise on NPR. He made the argument that it is anti Semitic to keep Jews from settling the West Bank. Of course, no one at NPR reminded him that non Jews are not allowed to settle in Israel, not even the Palestinian refugees who were expelled at Israel’s creation. What a crazy world we live in!

“Nevertheless, I can see the tug-of-war for those who have been (or still are) Zionists.”

Oh yeah, me too! Sure, Zionism might fail. But it might not!. And if it doesn’t, and I am a known anti-Zionist, I won’t be able to share in the credit of reducing or eliminating the Palestinian people!
Everybody will look at me and say: “He didn’t hold faith with his people until the job was done!” and I will be reviled.

(Of course, if Israel suddenly starts dismantling the wall, pulling out of settlements, rationalizing and obeying the law, making reparations well, I am going to look awfully foolish, aren’t I, and a real kvetcher, too!)

“Well put.”

I never thought Jewish would be the new orange forever.

Till you convince the masses in America that the special relationship has not been good for the US, the Lobby will not fall. BLM will only hurt the Palestinian cause given its unpopularity with the masses outside Manhattan and other tony districts.

Yes, but BLM does NOT have cred among the masses. You guys are delusional if you think otherwise. Journey outside of Manhattan and you will see what I mean. I oppose police brutality too, but it is nonsense that Blacks are being targeted and it is nonsense that cop killings are in any way as big of a problem as Black on Black murders.

“YoniFalic,…”

Am I the only one who notes that “Raphael’s” syntax is eerily like “Silamcuz” as soon as he goes on the attack against “Yoni” and forgets which character he is playing?

“King David’s Descendents Making Case to Reclaim Ownership of Temple Mount”

Stealing someone else’s land by claiming ownership by descent from a fictional character out of religious myth… it’s a creative bit of theft justification, I’ll give them that.

“Temple Mount was relinquished after the 1967 war by Dayan” –

Looks like “Raphael” will own it soon!

“‘Help’ from the BLM movement will only hurt the Palestinian cause.”

Yeah! If those darn Palestinians had only waited a moment, the KKK, the Republican Party, and the Daughters of the Old South were all about to endorse BDS. But now, of course, they won’t.

How can these died-in-the-wool Zionists understand the young Jews (or others) who are deserting Zionism in favor of universal morality?

Support-Judaism-not-Zionism!
Support Bernie/Jill-not-Plutocracy-Hill !!
Very similar political calls.

In each case the moral revolutionary (that is the person who perhaps at long last abandons the political manipulators in favor of morality) has to balance loyalty to principle against loyalty to group.

Well, I’ve always been a Democrat — longing for a return of the party to morality — but I’ve never been a Zionist. Nevertheless, I can see the tug-of-war for those who have been (or still are) Zionists.

We better be nice to “Raphael”! He might win his battle of will

Well put.

“But I don’t particularly have a horse either way. ”

That’s a philosophy that will light a fire under people: “I don’t have any particular principles!!!”

|| Mayhem: … the Jews have the right to nationhood and self-determination in their ancestral home. … ||

Geographic Palestine was not and is not the “ancestral home” of every person in the world who happens to be or who chooses to be Jewish. “The Jews” (why do you Zio-supremacists insist on using this anti-Semitic term?) were not and are not entitled to steal, occupy and colonize Palestine for the purpose of “self-determining” their “nationhood”.

“Jewish State” is a religion-supremacist construct. No group of people has a right to “self-determine” their “nationhood” in the form of a supremacist state of any kind. “The Jews” (why do you Zio-supremacists insist on using this anti-Semitic term?) were not and are not entitled to “self-determine” their “nationhood” in the form of a religion-supremacist state.

“Raphael”, please don’t treat the people here like they are stupid. They aren’t.

“Mordechai Vanunu

In the US; there is Daniel Ellsberg, and the Pentagon Papers.”

Well, well, look who has descended to the ordinary right-wing Zionist what-aboutery.

From your link: “Due to governmental misconduct and illegal evidence gathering, and the defense by Leonard Boudin and Harvard Law School professor Charles Nesson, Judge Byrne dismissed all charges against Ellsberg on May 11, 1973.”

Enjoyed your comment muchly,”Gamal”!
Me, I just tell myself: “The balebatisheh yiden are a closed book to me,” and move on.

@Silamcuz

I think it’s kind of hilarious that you would accuse me of “stooping” and “cowardice” when you couldn’t put a gun to my head to get me to do some of the sleazeball things you do to other people for the fun of it… from the safety of your office… hiding behind your assistant…

Silamcuz, aka A4Tech, aka (briefly) Princess, aka Catalan, aka CraigSummers (in the Intercept threads, aka…

Hmmm. I wonder if Annie [..] Your disrespectful trolling has pissed her off plenty.

“… and since taking on the Jewish establishment and Israel yields little or no positive political points on the American scene,”

Oh, it didn’t used to, anyway. And people used to be charmed by the South.

Dabkr,

Jews are racially heterogeneous and none of them is original to the Levant. Basically,Jews are as indigenous to Palestine as Barak Obama.

There is consensus among Archaeologists that the expulsion of Jews from Palestine never Happened and that they were Christianized and later Islamised and Arabized and they are part of the modern day Palestinian Muslim population. And there is a growing consensus among Geneticists that Ashkenazi Jews are original to northern Anatolia (Khazars) and not the levant.

Palestinians are the only indigenous population to Palestine and they consist of the descendants of those who lived in Palestine for more than 5000 year and the Arabs who came With the Islamic conquests who also are original to the Levant prior to drifting to Arabia (5000 BC).

A recent genetic study of Neolithic and Natufians (10000 BC) DNA from Palestine showed them to be perfect match for modern day Palestinians.

link to forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.ca

link to biorxiv.org

link to journal.frontiersin.org

In Short….Levantines looks like me and not like you.

@DaBakr
“guess they must be completely stupid or bamboozled by their own stupidity while you progressives are completely clued in, intelligent and not so easily fooled”

You nailed it DB – good to see you developing a modicum of intelligence and conscience in your assessment of the JSIL High Court.

vociferous opponents of the settlement enterprise

vociferousness doesn’t impress me if it’s not backed up by action. like the state department issuing condemnations while shoveling money at israel hand over fist. unwillingness to sanction with no concrete alternative to pressure israel — why should i or anyone respect this method of coercion especially after decades of ‘talks’, carrots and no sticks?

Because I feel that the Trump candidacy is the primary issue at this moment, I feel that the exact way of handling this attack on Israel … can be delayed by myself for the present

and after november? you’d be willing to support bds at that time? i didn’t think so.

Rabbi Jonah Dov Pesner, Director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, who responded to the Black Lives Matter platform by saying, “Anti-Israel rhetoric like that found in the Movement for Black Lives policy platform is especially troubling because it falsely suggests American Jews – both of color and white – must choose between their commitment to combatting racism in the United States and their Zionism.”

It doesn’t say you must choose, Mr. Pesner. What it says is that if you profess to be against racism in the US, but favor the racist ideology of Zionism in Palestine, don’t expect people to be “polite” and ignore the clear and utter hypocrisy in your position. Simply put, Mr. Pesner, if you favor Zionism, you favor racism (or an ethno-religious bigotry that is racism’s absolute equivalent). Pure and simple. Zionism = Racism.

“In the normal course of litigation between private parties…”

Exactly. And this case isn’t that.,

“Soon it will calling on “citizens” to out fellow citizens whose mothers aren`t Jewish.”

Between the marriage ‘laws’ (and getting a divorce) and the immigration ‘laws’ I am very sure that is happening already, for various reasons.

“Some of the Jewish supporters of BLM are vociferous opponents of the settlement enterprise and although those who condemn Israel root and branch will not accept them”

Then those Jewish supporters should have no problem with this statement, if they are opponents of the settlement enterprise. Unless you mean that there are Jewish people who claim to be opponents of the settlement enterprise but who are unwilling to do anything at all to oppose Israel on account of it, but simply want credit for their feelings, while the Palestinian people’s lives are destroyed. Those people are craven and cowardly. Why should we give a damn what they think?

“i feel that whatever complaints those individuals have against this manifesto should be respected.”

Why, other than the fact that they’re Jews and you seem to think that should be enough for “respect” to be given them? If someone isn’t willing to damn Israel for what it does to the Palestinians on both sides of the green line, then they should be damned as immoral abettors of evil.

“I feel that the Trump candidacy is the primary issue at this moment”

Yeah, “who gives a crap about all the Palestinians whose lives are being destroyed every day, FFS, we have to worry about a guy who has next to no chance to win the Presidency!!!” Because clearly your overblown fears are more important than the actual destruction of the lives of the Palestinians.

“I would wonder how Peter Beinart would react to this.”

Who gives a damn what that racist reactionary bigot thinks. He’s stated he’d favor Jewish-supremacist Apartheid over democracy if the latter meant that Palestinians might have power in Palestine/Israel, which disqualifies him from mattering in the least.

“We know Mooser lives in Seattle on land stolen from Native Americans”

Actually, out where I live, I’m mostly betwixt and between all kinds of Native American land. Starts about two block from my house.

Hello, “Stan Current”! Welcome.

“But I am opposed to the zero sum game argument.”

So you admit that Christianity and Judaism are both true, and right! And a person can be Jewish and Christian!

No zero-sum-games for “Yonah”! He wants things ‘universal’.

Mordechai Vanunu

In the US; there is Daniel Ellsberg, and the Pentagon Papers.

Daniel Ellsberg is a conscientious objector to the miliary industrial complex.

Daniel Ellsberg
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Daniel Ellsberg (born April 7, 1931) is an activist and former United States military analyst who, while employed by the RAND Corporation, precipitated a national political controversy in 1971 when he released the Pentagon Papers, a top-secret Pentagon study of U.S. government decision-making in relation to the Vietnam War, to The New York Times and other newspapers.

Ellsberg was charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 along with other charges of theft and conspiracy, carrying a total maximum sentence of 115 years.

link to en.wikipedia.org

“I haven’t seen them do much for retired philosophy lecturers, and we’re a minority.”

Well, what do you know! “Identity” just got a whole lot more important to “RoHa”. And he is identifying himself as “a minority”!

Gee, quick switch, wonder why?

Mr Pesner and posse –

You don’t like the wording. That’s your problem. No one asked for your permission to use it. It isn’t your word. It’s used to describe a situation you that continue to choose to ignore. Maybe prayer will help you realize the error in your ways?

You have no problem with the state of affairs in Palestine? That’s a problem. If you don’t want to support MBL or BLM fine. Just get the fuck out of the way. They don’t want or need you.

On a different note, all this drama about the proper use of the word genocide reminds me of something. That young woman from the Sander’s campaign, Simone Zimmerman, who was sought because she was young, relevant and pulled no punches. Funny, as soon as she told it like it was, she was silenced and so ridiculously, the crap about her ‘foul’ language, as if her words were too offensive for the delicate sensitivities of zionists, who have no problem with ‘mowing the lawn’ and ‘putting the Palestinians on a diet’. HYPOCRITES. Bernie was never going to stand up for Palestine, he just needed a convenient way to get out of his false commitment.

“The use of the world “genocide” like the use of the Nazi analogy, has consequences of the zero sum game. How can we talk to them? How can we think about them? They must be utterly defeated.”

Gosh, “Yonah”. Maybe the Zionists could have thought of that when they started planning and acting to do away with the Palestinians.

Unless, of course, you can buy off the appellation of “genocide” with enough dead Jewish souls. You can prove we are owed a genocide.

“Yonah”, why, in 2016, are Jews organized as Jews killing anybody?

Shame on Obama, yet again, for showing his weakness to govern, this time by caving to the Israel lobby in a particularly despicable way. It’s one thing for, say, someone like Adelson or Saban, true Zionist believers, to behave in this matter. It’s quite another, however, for someone like Obama who is not part of the ‘tribe’ to go against his own beliefs for political expediency.

This is deplorable! I’d be celebrating the end of Obama’s rule, if it weren’t for the fact that we are in for much worse regardless of who wins!

” Could it be that Black Lives Matter, on behalf of its own community, decided to slap the face of Jewish innocence by dramatically entering the hugely symbolic and crucially important aspect of the Jewish witness to the world?”

could it be that you are not the center of the universe

“Variations of the Black Power movement have been taking on American and Israeli Jewish establishments in this way for years. For the most part, these attacks have been beaten back through invocations of the Holocaust, Jews as at the forefront of the Civil Rights movement and Israel as a beacon of democracy in the Middle East”

and vociferous denunciations of Black antisemitism, why leave that out

“The fallback position of Jewish defense against charges of dislocation, oppressing and ghettoizing the Palestinians has worn thin”

it was always threadbare

“The slap across the face of Jewish innocence stings.”

“Jewish innocence” more properly racist obliviousness

“When the language of genocide offends us more than ghettoizing another people”

who likes being roused roughly from a profound slumber

“The Movement for Black Lives has placed Jews on notice that we have arrived at the end of ethical Jewish history. What can be done, if anything, at the end, is the almost impossible question before us.”

right go back to sleep,

i see the “prophetic” is excitingly solipsistic,

no wonder so many Jews turn to Buddhism, which doesn’t pretend to innocence or some vacuous “moral” mission.

“What can be done, if anything, at the end, is the almost impossible question before us.”

you know Marc one day Tsong Rinpoche was walking on Pig Alley in Kathmandu being berated by an irate American denouncing him for sitting up on high expensive thrones while we prostrated to him, Rinpoche a little grizzled old man listened quietly to the increasingly incensed American,

Pig Alley is a slaughter house the gutters run with a mixture of blood, shit and filth, Lama’s often go about with skull cups hidden in the folds of their robes, they hold, being a human cranium about a litre,

Rinpoche stooped down and filled his cup to the brim with this revolting black scummy fluid, the American stepped back in disgust as Rinpoche drank the whole lot down in one

and smiling said “but i’m not proud”, you should try it, being free of self regard is real freedom and its very good for Jews, it makes you interesting, you will definitely have more sex and lose weight, you want abs?

Islam. Judaism and Christianity have no mission other than to help beings we owe them nothing, Priests, Alim and Rabbi’s have together raped religion over many centuries you all seem united by your miraculous ability to court irrelevance at best or depravity more consistently, you and all the other “divines’ are more responsible for the growth of pitiless fundamentalisms within the Middle Eastern origin faiths than any other single factor, i am genuinely surprised when any of you have the gall to speak this hopeless confusion, its time you represent or hold your peace.

“Some of the ones arrested and abused are going to be innocent.”

Instead of being guilty of what, exactly?

“What’s your point?”

Okay, okay “Pole vaunting” was a weak attempt at a pun. Sorry.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

“I spoke to many Arabs, I don’t recall them ever saying…”

Wait, let me guess? Having a non-Jewish mother makes you completely objective in regard to Israel?

“You should have quit the military as soon as you were given commands that were unfair,” “Raphael”

You know quite a bit about the military, don’t you “Raphael”? Yup, you just throw down your weapon and say “I quit”.

“Not sitting next to me on a plane (I as a complete stranger)?”

Why, you think you can keep your mouth shut during the flight? Who wants to sit next to a maudlin madman?

BTW, “Raphael”, aren’t you going to say “Thank you “Yoni Falic”, for the sacrifices you made in the IDF”?

The good thing about the accusation of genocide is that all the Jewish fake activists and gatekeepers will distance themselves.

In the normal course of litigation between private parties, disqualification of counsel is “a drastic measure.” In re Rail Freight Fuel Surcharge Antitrust Litig., 965 F. Supp. 2d 104, 110 (D.D.C. 2013) (quoting Konarksi v. Donovan, 763 F. Supp. 2d 128, 135-36 (D.D.C. 2011)). Accord United States v. Bolden, 353 F.3d 870, 875 (10th Cir. 2003) (“Indeed, the disqualification of Government counsel is a drastic measure.” (citation and internal quotations omitted)). Cf. Steinbuch v. Cutler, 463 F. Supp. 2d 4, 7 (D.D.C. 2006) (in the context of a motion to disqualify counsel for misconduct, noting the “extraordinarily high burden” a moving party faces). It is also rare. See Paul v. Judicial Watch, Inc., 571 F. Supp. 2d 17, 20 (D.D.C. 2008) (“Disqualification of counsel is uncommon, as evidenced by the relative paucity of case law directly on point.”).

BRAVO!!! Canada Green Party!!! As a Canadian I am ashamed of Ottawa’s position of support vis-a-vis the Zionists’ demeaning behaviour towards Palestinians. Rather sad to have to realize how far and how deep Zionists’ tentacles have reached.

And the Zionists will stoop so low as to smear their own.

It’s a major crime to witness the racist policy of the so called ‘Jewish democracy” against Nonjews.

“When I was in East Jerusalem before I became a Israeli citizen, as a half Jew. I spoke to many Arabs, I don’t recall them ever saying that all they want is a secular democratic state, on equal terms, with the Jews in West Jerusalem. ”

They probably thought you were an agent of the Israeli Gestapo and said what they thought might keep them from getting tortured and keep their kids from being orphaned at the hands of some murderous Zionist terrorist.

“you should have gone public in Israel as a conscientious objector too wars.”

Look what the criminal Israeli state has done to a genuine hero like Mordechai Vanunu (one of the very few heroes that Israel has generated). When faced with an inhuman enemy like that, how dare you criticize any decisions someone takes to protect themselves?

“look to the israeli supreme court for examples”

Yeah, keep lying to yourself…

“if they had any credibility at all they would rule themselves out of existence and replace themselves with a mixture of hamas , pa, plo and other assorted individuals.”

They need simply reject the evil and racist ideology of Zionism.

“Temple Mount was relinquished after the 1967 war by Dayan”

What a bunch of rubbish. The former Temple Mount site wasn’t that war criminal’s to relinquish. The fact that he didn’t steal it? Great. He’s less of a criminal than the average Israeli. What do you want, a cookie??

DaBakr, is there any other position possible that isn’t ‘far left’ from your Kahanist point of view?

It’s been the Arab policy for decades

I don’t recall even one sentence of the lengthy Arab policy you mentioned; ever discussed by them. All the Arabs I spoke to seemed to be generally be concerned about the economic problems; that the conflict gives to their community.

‘Help’ from the BLM movement will only hurt the Palestinian cause. To date the movement is known by most for disrupting public events and inconveniencing people, most recently in the UK of all places, where they tried blocking the road to Heathrow airport. That tactic gains zero adherents and alienates many people who might otherwise have been sympathetic to their cause. Palestinians receive enough bad press already without tying this albatross around their necks.

Elliott Abrams was one of the leading architects of the Reagan administration’s murderous counterrevolutionary wars in Central America. This guy is a major-league war criminal; if there were any justice he’d be in the dock in the Hague…

We should all be sending messages to the Justice Department and the White House demanding that the Justice Department stop representing Abrams.

We can loose the grip of Zionism in our government by supporting candidates who are running against known Israel-firsters. Here in the 10th Assembly District in California our incumbent Assembly Member is a principal coauthor of AB 2844, an anti-BDS bill that may yet pass, despite significant opposition by a large coalition of people who care about human rights and free speech. His challenger is Veronica “Roni” Jacobi, another Democrat. (In California, the top two winners of the primary compete in the general elections, even if they are of the same party.) Israel-Palestine is not her issue–climate change is–but she supports the right to boycott.

Her incumbent has received large donations from corporations and wealthy conributors, whereas she is running a shoestring campaign on borrowed money (at this point). Please go to her website, RoniJacobi.com, and donate.

If Jacobi could win, it would send a message that being an Israel-firster is a liability.

talknic: In one instance a person commits the crime, in the other a state commits the crime.
————-

Are you claiming that the legal definition of genocide includes a requirement that there be a state actor? Non-state actors cannot commit genocide by definition? Where is that spelled out?

That’s exactly it Kay……they think they can get away with anything whilst hiding behind America. In my past I have watched Americans take a lot. On the battlefield and on the street. Once they decide they have had enough they get pretty determined and in many ways their are the gradual signs that point is not too far off. Whether Trump or Clinton gets in…..neither realise the catalyst for change they are actually becoming. And it won’t be the change either of them were expecting. It will look and sound more like a revolution….thousands of Americans stamping their feet and raising their fists saying enough!

We could do with a few of Richard Boyds in the zio controlled US. A few leaders with guts and sense of doing the honest thing for long suffering people, would do this nation a world of good.
NOT ONE American leader or media person, would DARE speak this way to any Israeli agent here.

From what I’ve read, it does seem like the Russian pogroms ought to qualify as genocide in the legal definition, since sometimes officials participated and the pogromists were treated very lightly by the government. I remember reading that after the 1905 pogroms the Tsar thought they were the result of honest citizen outrage. He didn’t plan the pogroms, but approved of them. Mob violence by Arabs against Jews might also qualify if there is some government sympathy or support for the violence. But I’m not a lawyer. Still, morally speaking to me the Russian treatment of Jews in the Czarist era is on a similar moral level to Israeli treatment of Palestinians and maybe that’s an analogy people should use more often.

I also agree that there is a legal and a ” street” definition of genocide, the latter restricting it to acts of mass murder intended to wipe out much or all of some group. As for whether it does good or harm using the word in the I-P case, I don’t know. It depends on how it comes across to people not yet committed to one side or the other. Personally I stick to words like ” apartheid”, ” war crimes”, and ” ethnic cleansing” because the street definition fits Israel’s behavior.

I hate having to agree with Trump, but just like the 50 GOP security experts that came out against Trump yesterday, this defense of Abrams by Justice, illustrates how the elite have circled their wagons against the American people.

Yes, she looked like she was smirking at times. It is that zio arrogance that always shows. They know they can get away with murder all the time, thanks to Uncle Sam’s protection and support.

I watched many times too, it was almost a relief to hear someone (good for Ireland) ask the questions we are longing to hear. It was one hit after another, all facts, and to which the almost speechless ambassador for evil was unable to address. I would like more of the same too.

Soon it will calling on “citizens” to out fellow citizens whose mothers aren`t Jewish.
Lunatics – asylum – takeover progressing apace

More proof that the US is enabling the occupiers, and playing good cop/bad cop when it comes to Israel’s endless crimes. They pretend to be concerned or even criticize the evil empire, but facts are we aid, arm, and protect it, and it’s interests. I guess American tax payers must chip in for the 51st rogue state.

An interesting article by neocon Abrams not very flattering for Obama.

link to politico.com

@ Sibiriak ” So, if a Palestinian kills or attempts to kill a a single Jewish Israeli with the intentions described in Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, that act can be legitimately and usefully labelled an act of genocide or attempted genocide?”

Same rule applies to all. However, the intentions of ‘a Palestinian’ is not the same as a set of state policies. In one instance a person commits the crime, in the other a state commits the crime.