Reconsidering Primitivism

  • Posted on: 21 July 2016
  • By: Anonymous (not verified)
Cover image, Fifth Estate Issue 365, Summer 2004

Fifth Estate Issue 365, Summer 2004, is now online at
http://www.fifthestate.org/archive/365-summer-2004/

Among the many articles to be found there are...

Reconsidering Primitivism: Technology and the Wild
by Wildroots Collective
http://www.fifthestate.org/archive/365-summer-2004/reconsidering-primiti...

Swamp Fever (excerpts)
by David Watson
http://www.fifthestate.org/archive/365-summer-2004/swamp-fever-excerpt/

Green Anarchism and Oil Depletion: How Close Is The Collapse?
by Richard Heinberg
http://www.fifthestate.org/archive/365-summer-2004/green-anarchism-and-o...

Beyond Backward and Forward: On Civilization, Sustainability, and the Future
by Derrick Jensen
http://www.fifthestate.org/archive/365-summer-2004/beyond-backward-and-f...

category: 

Comments

Really good content this go around.

Pretty far probably. While there is a lot about peak oil that is undeniable, the collapsists don't consider technolateral developments that seem to keep on happening. I'm not saying this as an optimist, it's just something you notice after a while. Rome was really resilient and avoiding collapse more so then any other civilization that came before it in Europe and the ME. When you have a civilization that is operating at a high level of rational instrumentality WITH globally connected inputs then you have an inherent inhibitor to energy collapse(though I don't rule it out). If it happens it happens( I welcome it) but please stop with these failed predictions. You want something that really KOs civilization, wait for the Younger Dryas sequel if it ever happens.

Think it was Peter Lamborn Wilson who said that the biggest danger we face now is not some collapse or other but whether the system adepts to the circumstance - i.e green capitalism. The victory of newtonianism or something I think he called it. Via Campesino also warns of it. There seems to be little discussion of this eventuality. What does it mean if the green shift succeeds? I'm inclined to say that it means trouble indeed. The general western population are well aware of many of the problems we are facing now (environmental,political) and if high tech neo-liberalism finds away to deal more or less successfully with these problems....

...now that the tech giants (Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and others), who are very much aware of peak oil and such due to their massive electricity consumption, are teaming up to spearhead energy diversification. At the same time, you get these periodic intragovernment predictions of near-term collapse coming out of studies done by the Department of Defense and the like.

Every civilization has collapsed eventually, and I think it is therefore a very reasonable inference to say this one will as well. But I don't trust anyone who picks a date because there are far, far too many variables involved - I'm not counting on it in my lifetime, though it'd be fun as hell to see.

Waiting for the Collapse is a very old messianic/apocalyptic pattern. Stop waiting for it, stupid. Just do it, or stfu.

Did Bellamy say anything about waiting for collapse?

Please stop putting words in his mouth.

What part of my very short comment makes you believe that Bellamy said anything about that? I was referring to a tendency I've witnessed among pretend radicals way closer to home, who've been publishing loads of essays about the incoming collapse, and pushing it as far as to do armchair discussions about what would a post-collapse world would or should be.

"What part of my very short comment makes you believe that Bellamy said anything about that?"

This part, dipshit:
"Waiting for the Collapse is a very old messianic/apocalyptic pattern. Stop waiting for it, stupid. Just do it, or stfu."

It came right under Bellamy's post in which he mentions that every civilization has collapsed. You obviously implied by your reply that Bellamy is waiting for collapse. Otherwise, why word it the way you did? Please stop playing games.

Well, you knee-jerk stand by your man, there's still nothing in these three sentences that are aiming at His Royal Dickness Bellamy. So stfu you too and get a grip.

Pragmatism and initiative really does seem to irritate you a lot, but when did I attempted to deprive you of your bookfair panels?

Primitivism would be fine as a personal or group choice within the context of an otherwise anarchist world. It's main problem is all this "collapse" business. It's like Christian fundies waiting for the rapture or techno-utopians waiting for the singularity: it's never gonna happen.

Personally I can't get my head around why primitivists refuse to accept allowing those who like tech to live in functioning cities and have things like computers etc., as long as they were remade on a decentralised and ecological basis.

For them, it all has to go. We shouldn't have the choice. Every human being must go back to being hunter-gatherers and be happy about it.

I guess it would be way more empowering for an AP to accept the thought that the Collapse may not happen (even if it can at every turn these days) and that many people are going to fight to maintain the course of civilization, no matter what. Even among the proles... especially among the proles.

Realizing this postulate leads to the logical necessity of actively supporting the anti-civ forces in all their diversity instead of waiting for New Jerusalem (i.e. the Borg Cube lol) to come down from the skies.

Your laying blame on people for pointing out implications doesn't make the implications go away.

Technique aka 'means' replaces human values with efficiency. Talk about no choice.

Being as humans have no god's eye view there a unforeseen consequences of technology. In our current era of linguistic framing negative causality is also left out of the picture. Concepts are put forth as content devoid of habitat context.

There's also no such thing as a labor saving device. I'm sure myself or someone else can explain if you'd like an expaination.

Go right ahead and you do the mining. As the health imbalances are passed on to you and yours, as well as non-human life around you (look at what gold mining in greece has done for communities being able to sustain themselves on local fish), you can't expect that at some point there won't be raiding or warring with surrounding communities.

Not a primmie.

The fault is in the blamer. Your post shows how uncomfortable or unwilling you are to unpack points primitivists bring up and critically engage the world around you. Yet you want your voice heard... Maybe not a good approach to understanding and being understood, no?

Say what you want about prims, but there is something to be gleaned from dunbar's number.

Utter confusionnist AND confused drivel...

"Technique aka 'means' replaces human values with efficiency. Talk about no choice."

No, what replaces human value with effciency is the productivism (or performance cult) that's been prevalent in the industry for centuries. It is a golden value directly tied to the deeper doctrine of capital accumulation. The "technique" is only a necessary functional developmental component of productivitism. In other words, you need to produce more in order to be competitive and make more megabucks or gain more power? Submit labor processes to the technique, not only as a means but as an ideology.

What's confusing is your focus only on technical concerns. That's all you list.

Converting lived experience into efficiency is abstracting reality. The end results of this efficiency are endlessly defered as mythology (also abstract): future, progress, modernity.

Humans have always used techniques. Hunting skills, construction and use of tools. The ends and means were one and the same. Real. Not abstract.

This is before they constructed an artificial world encased in concrete and forced to live at a speed of no one's chosing. Never before have humans lived in a technological society, where abstraction is the main concern. Mumford pinned down the beginning as clocks. The aspects of life that count the most are mechanical moments. Written language looks pretty mechanical. Mumford also talks about stratification looking like human activity feeding into a centralized intelligence hub...which became State belief and corresponding relations.

Would you enforce only a certain amount of technological efficiency in your anarchist community? Who decides that? Efficient ineffiency. One thinks of places like north korea.

i take your point but, to me, blaming those who blame is circular reasoning which derives from a deeper error. the deeper error is that such a construct assumes the existence of 'us' and 'them' on the basis of the different views and actions of two categories, A and B.

categories of 'being' [as contrasted with categories of thought (dualist and non-dualist)] are dualist abstractions that do not exist in the physical reality of our natural non-dualist experience.

the relational understanding of the world dynamic is in terms of an inhabitant-habitat non-duality. however, western religions and western science have made the dualist belief in 'independent beings' foundational to their approach to understanding the world dynamic. i.e. we all have two ways (A and B, dualist and non-dualist) of understanding the same life experience of inclusion in the world dynamic. the dualist way has been institutionalized in Western society and it is the underpinning of moral judgement based retributive justice (the habit of finding causal authorship and 'blaming' (morally judging) on that basis). the dualist way of viewing the world dynamic, ... or, rather, ... putting the dualist way of viewing the world dynamic in precedence over the non-dualist understanding is what is tending towards 'collapse' = 'inverting' so that dualism which has been riding on top, slides under and non-dualism resurfaces on the top. dualism's position 'on top' has been encouraged not only by science but by Western religious writings such as;;

“God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” – Genesis 1:28

That physical reality is an inhabitant-habitat NON-DUALITY is getting more and more apparent, as in this writer's message;

“In extending his living space in a manner that destroys the space of others, he destroys his own space. Not initially his inside space, his ‘self’, but his outside space, this real outside-of-self which nourishes his ‘inside-of-self’. The protection of this outside space now becomes the condition without which he is unable to pursue the growth of his own powers of being.” — Frédéric Neyrat, ‘Biopolitics of Catastrophe’

In other words, the relational world dynamic consists of an epigenetic inductive influence which actualizes genetic expression. The 'forms' that we make into 'subjects' such as 'inhabitants' are the visual aspect of an inhabitant-habitat non-duality, ... they are not primary and/or 'all she wrote' as in dualism.

This is not a new thing that we are just discovering, as Nietzsche points out, it is an error that made it into what it means to be a Western civilized person as it was being incubated in Greece, 2500 years ago, ... a trip-up [putting logical truths in unnatural precedence over experience-based intuition] that never made it into the incubating of what it means to be an indigenous aboriginal;

“Teach your children what we have taught our children, that the earth is our mother. Whatever befalls the earth, befalls the sons of the earth. If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves. … This we know, the earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. All things are connected. Whatever befalls the earth, befalls the sons of the earth. Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.” —Indigenous Aboriginal belief in inhabitant-habitat non-dualism

everyone is capable of both dualist and non-dualist interpretations of the world dynamic. what is meant by 'collapse' is the collapse of the unnatural reign of dualism in precedence over non-dualism as has been institutionalized in Western society. Nietzsche's prediction is that this is underway at present and the full flip will take about 200 years (his prediction was in 1890). it could come in like a lion or a lamb (with amor fati acceptance or with violent resistance), but 'nihilism' is the middle phase where staunch dualists come to realize that the logical truths of dualism are bullshit in that they are inherently subjective and incomplete, like a house of cards, logical tautologies leaning against other logical tautologies for their support.

"“The propositions of logic are tautologies (6.1), and hence say nothing (6.11). Any attempt to give content to logical propositions is misguided. That they are true shows itself in their structure, and this structure helps us to understand the formal properties of language and the world (6.12). We cannot express anything by means of logical propositions.” — Wittgenstein

beautifully said emile, the logic we are taught pretty much blocks out every other possibility that exists beyond civilization. I can't get over the fact that westerners are perpetually afraid of the non-human world and what would happen if the infrastructure of civilization were threatened. While civ gives us a strong protection against certain kinds of diseases and an overwhelming degree of comforts(IF you have money or live in a social democracy...), the man-made world is so fucking bland I don't understand why anyone would want to preserve it till infinity. There is plenty of death and hardship in the natural world, but it's all temporary...

However, i have my own doubts that civilization will collapse anytime soon, as was expressed before, I think the human race itself will have to die out before this happens which is a somewhat depressing thought...

Ewww! Just because this self-absorbed narcissist blowhard gets high on admiring his own navel, doesn't mean you HAVE to take part in his game.

Fucking low, man. Go get some dignity.

There's no fixed Self. Why are you magicking in one?

nationalism, as Einstein said, is an 'infantile disease, .. the measles of the world', as is civilization. we are born free to live our everyday lives like all of nature, unconditioned-by-civilization. that is the base case. when uncivilized primitives didn't 'bump into' any civilizeds (when the colonizers, who brought civilization were fairly rare), uncivilized (natural) behaviours [restorative justice etc] were the everyday fare.

civilization is a superficial shell or set of 'politically correct constraints' that believers collectively impose on one another. the base case is naturalism or primitivism which is grounded in the physical reality of our actual, natural experience; i.e. our sensory experience of inclusion in a transforming relational space is primary while 'beliefs' belong to the realm of thought and language, which is where the 'measles' can come in. thought and language allows us to construct 'semantic realities' which, if we believe in them, we employ as 'operative realities' that orchestrate and shape our individual and collective behaviours. 2500 years ago, the trend of putting belief in logical propositions in precedence over experience-based intuition 'went viral' in the West and entrenched itself, like a virus in the human collective; first locally in Europe, and then through colonization, around the globe.

so, your view that; "I think the human race itself will have to die before this [collapse of civilization] happens" seems overly pessimistic to me and somewhat abstract (kind of like 'manifest destiny'). my 'gut feel' (intuition) is that we live in an era of rapid [relentless and unstoppable] collapse in the belief in centralized politics and politicians and their 'dualist logical truth based semantic realities' [inherently subjective and incomplete bullshit] which their job is to keep in an unnatural precedence over our actual experience, which 'fits the pistol' of those in the cab of the machinery but not so much for those looking up into the barrel from down in the crunch where 'the tank-tracks of the machinery of civilization meet the road'.

This is emile's indigenous-anarchist protege------Homo Whorfis
Also known as the ‘intellectualizing hobbit’, this mysterious human was discovered in a basement in LA in 2008. They stand at around 4 feet tall and live on junk food and quotes. Interestingly, there are stories of a strange non-verb-noun language spoken by morons in the area. These small, hairy creatures live with their moms in basements, and some researchers even believe that they multiply in the middle-class areas of LA

"The propositions of logic are tautologies (6.1), and hence say nothing (6.11). Any attempt to give content to logical propositions is misguided. That they are true shows itself in their structure, and this structure helps us to understand the formal properties of language and the world (6.12). We cannot express anything by means of logical propositions.” — Wittgenstein

i can't help but think of wittgenstein reading the writings of emile and shaking his head in disbelief over what is contained therein. for instance, think of how little wittgenstein published in his life. he had his reasons for not filling the void with his meanderings, yet emile shows no such restraint. wittgenstein would often talk with actual humans and then make an exclamation at his own stupidity on things. there is no such desire to talk with actual humans or admit stupidity from emile. it is a one-sided flow of righteous text-based flatulence from emile.

i believe what wittgenstein wrote is accurate - propositions of logic are only valid if you believe in the structure they build. likewise, emile plays the same game with his own "emile-logic". a logic that seems, knowingly or not, very hegelian in nature.

if you want to beef up your case against logic and the positivists - read quine. i suggest you incorporate his critique of "verificationism" into your cache of "to-be-quoted-ad-infinitum".

There isn't just one non-dualist. Maybe instead of strawmaning do some research.

Reading philosophy is no requirement, either.

if you hadn't noticed, my citations of wittgenstein etc. are WITHIN A LARGER CONTEXT. logical propositions on their own are inherently subjective and incomplete. do you agree?

the logic of 'DDT kills mosquitoes' can be proven 'true' but it is subjective and incomplete, failing to address the full physical reality [DDT spraying not simply as a local cause-effect action but as an intervention in the transforming relational continuum]. similarly, the logic of 'US military science and technology eliminates rogue leaders like Saddam' can be proven 'true' but it is subjective and incomplete, portraying the action as a local, surgical Saddam-ectomy and failing to acknowledge it as an intervention into the transforming relational continuum].

Western society's habit of putting logic before intuition is problematic, do you agree? [no need to look for answers in Quine]. if we use the logic of 'DDT kills mosquitoes' in real physical applications to remove mosquitoes, or if we use the logic of 'US military science and technology eliminates rogue Saddams' in real physical applications to remove Saddams, we can validate our logical propositional truths without addressing the physical realities of our actual experience.

one doesn't have to study Wittgenstein or Quine to come to this understanding. our pre-lingual experience-based intuition suffices. logical propositions are dualist structures that deliver 'economy of thought' by avoiding the relational complexities in non-dualist physical reality.

as someone has noted, emile is not the only non-dualist; i.e. if you are trying to shut down the spread of the restoration of non-dualism to its natural precedence over dualism, then the strawman you set up that it is emile's flawed-logic invention is not going to work. sure, i cite from the works of a lot of people (mach, schroedinger, wittgenstein etc.) but only in the sense of 'doesn't what they are saying capture very nicely what you, yourself are understanding from your own prelingual experience-based intuition?

when logical propositions tell us that 'Katrina is getting larger and stronger' and back it up with time-lapse photographs and precise spatial-extension and pressure measurements, intuition sees through this scam which presupposes the persisting thing-in-itself identity of 'Katrina', ignoring the form-and-flow non-duality wherein non-local, non-visible, non-material relational influence [epigenetic influence] is continually actualizing the local, visible, material genetic expression (the non-dualist form-in-the-flow, NOT the dualist form thing-in-itself). so, anyone of us can intuit this, and then cite wittgenstein who is a craftsman in formulating lean, mean, appropriate capture phrases; the battle against the bewitchment of our understanding by the medium of language. that is, noun-and-verb language usage is continually constructing semantic realities featuring notional dualist 'things-in-themselves' (forms out of the context of flow) that become the pillars of 'civilized' beliefs.

intuition is larger than logic. all we can squeeze out of studying logic itself is twenty pound theorems from ten pound axioms [the axiom of persisting identity of logical elements]. the Wittgenstein comments that logical propositions are tautologies that are without content and that language is bewitching our minds, come from intuition.

"It is by logic we prove, it is by intuition that we invent. … Logic, therefore, remains barren unless fertilised by intuition.”- Henri Poincaré

" Nietzsche's prediction is that this is underway at present and the full flip will take about 200 years (his prediction was in 1890). it could come in like a lion or a lamb (with amor fati acceptance or with violent resistance),"
Reminds me of the ranting verse of the grand fortune teller Nostradamus, whose relevance in modern times could be compared to the astrology column in the amusement section of the local newspaper.

your comparison to nostradamus is way off the mark

Well, they're still both postulates in the context of predicting a distant future event, which is what Primitivism bases its whole theory upon, and calls for a revolution in lifestyles and the death of the technological science god, just as Nietzsche called upon a revolution in morality and the death of mythological gods, You can split hairs as much as you like, that's what intellectual hobbits are good at. Enjoy!!

As emile says they can simply be estimations based on reading patterns. I forn instance think there's going to be something of a tribulation period between then late teens and mid 20s similar to the late 30s-mid 40s. I'm not counting on or making it drive orientation, I simply read patterns and note past repetition.

as mcluhan pointed out, it is common to be unable to "see the relational transformation for the events" [one cannot see the ground for the figures]. this dualist-blindness seems to crop up in predictions, as well as in social organization. the event of the new factory in the valley can be understood either in non-dualist terms of the transforming of relations in the valley dynamic [figure-in-ground] or in dualist terms of the construction of the new factory [all-figure no ground]. the relational change is more basic than details of whether the factory makes cornflakes or cadillacs [McLuhan --- "the relational medium is the message"].

trends and predictions also come in these two flavours [non-dualist and dualist] and the difference between them is far more than 'splitting hairs'.

nostradamas dealt in dualist predictions as in the Biblical tradition; i.e. the forecasting of plagues, earthquakes, wars, floods, invasions, murders, droughts, and battles. nietzsche deals in trends in non-dualist 'relational transformation' [where events are local features within a transforming relational medium; i.e. where event-and-relational-medium are a non-duality];

" And do you know what “the world” is to me? Shall I show it to you in my mirror? This world: a monster of energy, without beginning, without end; a firm, iron magnitude of force that does not grow bigger or smaller, that does not expend itself but only transforms itself; as a whole, of unalterable size, a household without expenses or losses, but likewise without increase or income …” –Nietzsche, ‘The Will to Power’, 1067

the Western orthodox 'reality' is the dualist 'semantic reality' featuring 'events' based on 'what things do', such as 'DDT is killing mosquitoes' and 'US military science and technology is getting rid of Saddams'.

for 'dualists', 'what things do' is 'all she wrote'. in other words, dualism puts inherently subjective and incomplete logical propositions, like the DDT and Saddam propositions, into an unnatural precedence over the relational transformation of our experience-based intuition [going with the logical propositions which disregard the 'externalities' that constitute the physical reality of our actual relational experience].

when non-dualists speak in terms of relational transforming, dualists' eyes glaze over, because, in the dualist view, 'what things do' fully determines the unfolding world dynamic. this is like the scientist who measures the performance of the baseball hitter. he assumes, 'ceteris paribus', that the ups and downs in the hitter's performance derive from the hitter [ignoring the physical reality of our experience wherein the pitching/fielding is inductively actualizing, orchestrating and shaping the hitter's 'genetic expression'].

When Louis Pasteur acknowledged that Antoine Bechamp had been correct in claiming that 'le microbe n'est rien, le terrain est tout', this was supported by the fact that there are over 200 bacteria and viruses whose proliferation [to the point they become a problem] correlates with pneumonia. 'correlation' does not mean 'causation' since if 'le terrain' (the equivalent of 'the fielding') is nurturant to bacteria/viruses by being low in vitamic C, such fielding inductively actualizes the genetic expression of various bacteria/viruses, just like a warm ocean and atmosphere inductively actualizes hurricanes [figures we disconnect from ground with our noun-and-verb language-and-grammar and use to construct dualist 'what things do' event-based semantic realities].

the confusing of non-dualist prediction based on relational transformation (Nietzsche) and dualist event-based prediction (Nostradamus) derives from the dualist view that 'what things do' based 'events' are 'all she wrote' [separating figures from ground is done by replacing the relational 'ground' with empty Euclidian space, leaving only the figures and what they do as if in a non-participating space (i.e. blindering oneself so that one is unable to see the transforming relational ground for the figures)].

Nietzsche's point is that Western civilization has fostered a trend in which 'logical propositions' have been progressively taking over from experience-based intuition. This is what Bohm refers to as 'incoherence'.

Trump is a businessman and businessmen are the epitome of those who would put 'logical propositions' into an unnatural precedence over the relational transformation of our experience-based intuition. What this means is that the more that powerful groups succeed in fulfilling their logical propositions, the more externalities that are generated, which are not addressed in the business plans and which everyone will experience and that someone else will have to pay for. Businessmen do not have to pay for 'externalities' but the collective they operate in, including those they fire and exploit have to "eat" such externalities. The successful businessman has the worst qualifications for the leader of a community, insofar as he commits to operationalizing logical propositions [which generate externalities not addressed in the propositions, that are the physical reality that we actually experience, which transcends 'logical truths' such as "we succeeded in using DDT to kill mosquitoes" and "we succeeded in using US military science and technology to get rid of Saddams".

Summary: As the political leaders in Western colonizer civilization have continued to push dualist logical propositions, unpredicted externalities have continued to rise [externalities are the physical reality while logical propositions are intellectual semantic realities]. the mounting push-back of externalities makes the fulfillment of logical propositions hollow ["yes, Saddam was removed but the externalities unleashed were far more significant and troublesome than the gains associated with the achievement of the logical proposition (his removal)" this has made political leaders more cautious about claims that they can deliver a promised future [and so it should be since every local system/nation is included in a relational suprasystem whose epigenetic inductive influence is in a natural precedence over their genetic expression].

the businessman, meanwhile, continues to push and achieve his logical objectives, generating all kinds of externalities (loss of local jobs, an exploited have-not class etc.) that he will never have to pay for. a businessman like Trump can get things done and make political leaders look incompetent. but the political leaders also have to manage [pay for] the externalities that they and the business magnates they represent generate as 'side-effects' of fulfilling their logical propositions [the side-effects are the physical reality we experience]. thus, Trump 'appears' far more competent than the political leaders, because, as a businessman, he does not have to manage the externalities. for example, he could have contracted to 'take out Saddam' in which case he would be well compensated for the successful fulfilment of the logical objective, ... but the disastrous externalities would still be an outcome, but one which he did not have to pay for.

if Trump carries his aggressive/unmoderated logical proposition oriented approach into the political leadership, he will generate externalities bigtime, and he will need stronger police and military to fend off the pushback. The logic-based 'semantic reality' he will commit to building, is not the physical reality of our experience. the physical reality is the externalities which will have us, the more we push fulfillment of logical propositions, "going to hell in a handbasket".

This is a relational trend that we can predict will worsen. it is like driving a car in circles in a closed aircraft hangar and speeding up to keep ahead of the exhaust fumes which are becoming more and more suffocating. Trump is effectively an advocate of that strategy. Nietzsche would say that people are eventually going to realize that Western civilization has its "reality ladder" up the wrong wall [up the wall of logical propositions instead up the wall of relational experience as informs our intuition]. That is a situation, like the building of fumes in the aircraft hangar, that could easily reach and exceed a tipping point threshold as in 'self-organized criticality' in avalanche/earthquake phenomena.

Yes well *yawn* we all predict, its nice to anticipate and have the edge, the early bird gets the worm, or in your case the insomniac *yawn* hobbit intuitively climbs out of the basement of relational experiences,,,,,,,,*,zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

" tribulation period " Mien Gott, do I detect some remnant of Christian millenarianist fervor lingering in the heart of a Stirnerite?

The fault is with the blamer, no?

Personally I can't get my head around why primitivists refuse to accept allowing those who like tech to live in functioning cities and have things like computers etc., as long as they were remade on a decentralised and ecological basis.

Because you can't have tech without authority or ecological damage. If you want authoritarian and hierarchical organizational structures working to build the tech you want, fine. But that's not anarchy.

Yes that's the million dollar query

wrong.

what you are saying is very much analogous to jz talking ignorant shit about individualists or nihilists. rhetoric without reasonable substantiation.

the above comment was responding to solarpunk Fri, 07/22/2016 - 02:08

1-800-69 YOUR MOM =))

Primitivists are anthropocentric humanists with their own millenarianist agenda borrowing heavily from Judean and Utopianist fear and superstition.

I don't agree with that.

Egoist

Please -- pretty please -- don't fucking generalize!

Thank you and good day to YOU, sir

Lame. Can't you make up better smears than that?

Lame. Can't you have a better sense of humor, particularly in a thread geared toward primitivism in combination with a response of *one's own* non-agreement?

"Can't you have a better sense of humor, particularly in a thread geared toward primitivism in combination with a response of *one's own* non-agreement?"

Can't you just admit to yourself that your real gender identity is female? Accept it and move on. Tell your mother, and start transitioning already.

I already went to mom, and told her, thank you very much, you nosy nancy. But you know what? I told each of everyone else in the family I was another identity! Undermining the nuclear family! Down with capitalist social relations! Down with you gossiping old spinster!

If you're politics aren't grounded in Nietchze or Stirner you are a moralist/humanist/bad person.
If you see material conditions are leading towards social and ecological collapse you are a Judeo Christian douchebag.

If you say this often enough on @news, Facebook, and your lame ass blog people will believe it and you'll be the cool kid on the block.

A Stirnerian/Nietzschean analysis simply makes for better anarch/anarchy orientation. Collapse leaning conditions are a fixture of civilization. The problem is when you try to call it at and as a singular event point.

1 have to keep informing these leftists that the term Judeo-Christian is a misnomer and that there is no historical resemblance nor was there a process of reform or mutation from Judeism which melded into any type of this term " Judoe-Christian" KEEP the Jews out of it, and realize that its the X-tian ethic out of Rome which has the most douchebags mmmkay!!

Keep trolling. We're all listening, and waiting for your next awesome comment...

Thanxs, 1 appreciate some positive feedback occasionally. (1 hope that wasn't sarcasm )

Add new comment

Filtered HTML

  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <blockquote> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
To prevent automated spam submissions leave this field empty.
CAPTCHA
Human?
f
C
L
A
v
3
k
Enter the code without spaces.