2 Oct 2014

Who Let All These Aussie-Born Jihadists Into The Country?

By Tad Tietze

Denying the threat Australians feel about Islamic terrorism will do precisely nothing to tackle social cohesion, writes Dr Tad Tietze.

Look … many of the people that we're interested in this particular operation are Australian citizens. The vast majority of them are Australian citizens. So, in terms of their ethnicity, I think we need to understand that these are people who are in many cases born and bred Australians. Now, many of them have linkages back to the Middle East, Afghan in particular, however, I don't want to overplay the particular ethnicity because these are Australian citizens.

— Andrew Colvin, (then Acting) AFP Commissioner, 7.30, 18 September

The current, often hysterical, public debate over the terrorist threat in Australia is one in which all sides have danced around the most important empirical fact of all — that the Jihadists are a product of modern Australian society after more than a decade of the so-called War on Terror.

Of course security agencies, the media and politicos have not denied this fact. It’s just that even when it is mentioned, its implications not only go unstated, but Jihadists as automatically painted as an “other” of some kind.

When Sydney’s Daily Telegraph ran a front page on Numan Haider titled “Jihad Joey” it was not to agonise over what kind of country could produce this would-be terrorist, but to situate Haider as having stepped outside Australian norms.

Even in more measured analyses the question of the connection “between the global world of wickedly complicated geopolitics and the local, of suburban anomie and teenage despair” is raised but put into the too-hard basket.

The reality, according to Time magazine, is that Australia is the biggest per capita net exporter of Jihadists to Syria and Iraq of any Western country. You’d think this might raise questions about why Australia has become a successful incubator of what Tony Abbott calls a “death cult”.

Instead the threat is seen as coming from the Middle East, of “radicalization” being “imported”, and how this underpins an important justification for Australia to participate in a new military assault on Iraq, to keep us safe by degrading and destroying the terrorists “over there”.

The illogicality of this should be obvious. Australia is better at producing terrorists than importing them. The government’s policy of cancelling the visas of suspected Jihadists is meant to stem this flow.

However, it also means the government is actually keeping terrorists in the country rather than letting them leave. As even Miranda Devine has noted, this also increases the chance that Jihadist youth will be emboldened to see themselves as martyrs and act out here. The idea that such moves will make the rest of us safer would be a joke if it wasn’t so serious.

Abbott’s approach also perpetuates the notion “moderate” community leaders should police their own ethno-religious group to stop “radicalization”. It is this which led him to upset some of his own supporters by giving up his plan to water down 18C — so that he would have the latitude to take on “Islamic preachers of hate”.

Abbott is saying that Muslims are fully inside the tent as part of “Team Australia”, yet he is also saying they must accept responsibility for what a minuscule minority of “their” part of Australian society does. In doing so he treats one part of Australian society — its Muslim section — as effectively outside that society, except that they are allowed inside only as long as they are happy to be treated as separate and different.

For right-wing pundits like Andrew Bolt, on the other hand, the terror threat is the result of a combination of too much immigration from the Middle East, an irredeemably violent core to Islam, and the failures of multiculturalism. He counterposes vague, idealized notions of a more homogenously European Australia to the reality he criticizes. While his explanations fit with the themes he pursues in multiple daily blog posts, they make little sense when applied to the current situation.

First of all, given that most of the Jihadists reported on in the media were born, bred, educated and socialized in Australia, surely the problem is not people coming from overseas but Australian society’s inability to integrate some of its own citizens.

Secondly, whatever one’s interpretation of Islamic doctrine (in all its varieties), the fact all but a very tiny minority of Muslims are appalled and repelled by Jihadist terrorism means that blaming “Islam” is not a useful way of explaining their behaviour.

And, thirdly, Bolt’s anti-multicultural stance carries an implicit demand that being part of Australian society should require submitting to a very narrow cultural framework.

Yet if anything marks accounts of the “radicalization” of Jihadists like Australia’s “most wanted man”, Mohammad Ali Baryalei, it is their profound alienation from Australian society on a cultural basis that would be welcomed by the Right in any other circumstance.

As Baryalei said while street preaching in Sydney, “There's landmines all around us and what are the landmines? Pornography, alcohol, drugs, prostitution, brothels, girls ... violence [and] crime.”

On every count such explanations and proposed solutions for the terror threat avoid dealing with its thoroughly domestic nature. This is why so much store is put in the claim that we are fighting an “ideology”, because by seeing homegrown terrorist activity as the product of bad ideas brought from overseas and implanted in the heads of Australians can Jihadists more easily be treated as if they were not part of “us”.

If the Right has peddled an evasive narrative, liberals and Leftists often haven’t been much better. Understandably, most progressives want to dissociate local Jihadism from Australian Muslims more generally, and to defend multiculturalism against right-wing and racist criticisms. Yet most such responses end up downplaying or denying the terrorist threat, or uncritically painting multiculturalism as an unalloyed success.

Bernard Keane in Crikey and Ben Eltham in New Matilda, for example, have claimed that because terrorism is relatively very rare in Australia, the current government and media response is the real problem.

While the statistics comparing low rates of death from terrorism to other causes of death are undeniable, they miss how terrorism involves motivated, intentional and political acts, and is not just a matter of bad luck or negligence. If even one person is killed in a terrorist act, shrugging our shoulders and telling people to calm down because the threat is exaggerated is unlikely to ease their anxieties.

Neither is it much use to suggest that Australian Muslims simply declare that terrorism is #NotInMyName to absolve themselves of guilt by association. As Australia’s first female Muslim MP Mehreen Faruqi has pointed out, such a strategy presumes that the majority of Muslims should accept the association in the first place.

Now that we come to the trickiest part of the debate: the role of “multiculturalism”. Some on the Right, like Bolt and Cory Bernardi, think that multiculturalism must be rolled back. It could be that Abbott is sympathetic to this line, especially in the way he has seized on the burqa issue. But the overwhelming view on all sides of politics is that multiculturalism is the only viable option currently available for the state to manage race relations.

The danger now is that the Left falls into a mindless defence of multiculturalism as guaranteeing “social cohesion” in a multi-ethnic, multi-religious society. In fact it has been a policy dividing Australian society into identity groups, each with “leaders” who superintend “community members” they often have little in common with, in exchange for a privileged relationship to government and politics.

In concrete terms, today that means expecting Muslim notables to take responsibility for Jihadist youth, a role they play again and again. Nobody seems to have blinked an eye at how crudely this subcontracting process plays out. Take ABC’s 7.30, which brought on a Lebanese Muslim community leader to respond to the actions of Haider, an Afghan Muslim youth, as if the difference doesn’t matter. Moreover it’s not obvious how such leaders, even if they were more sensitively chosen, could actually control those they are meant to be overseeing.

Finally, the idea that government policy can produce “cohesion” when all kinds of social divisions continue to stunt people’s lives — divisions of class, race, gender and many other lines of demarcation — underlines just how much such ideas play into state control of the citizenry while doing nothing about the social causes of inequality, injustice and conflict.

Which brings us back to the very Australian threat we face.

After 13 years of the War on Terror the threat of Jihadist terrorism in Australia has apparently increased. But our political class tells us the solution is more War on Terror. We have a situation where a weak government with little social base and its domestic agenda in tatters is playing up the “existential” threat of weak terrorist dregs that have even less of a social base in order to bolster its own authority. This then gives encouragement to a tiny coterie of violent Islamophobes and racists to also act out and compete for media attention. Yet all of these actors are equally products of modern Australian society.

The trap for progressives is getting caught up in taking sides rather than recognising the hollow and debased nature of the protagonists as symptoms of a hollow and debased society.

How different, really, is the nihilism of savvy Jihadist social media propaganda to that of other youth subcultures that also idealise violence and destructiveness? The difference is that for a minority of Muslim youth their nihilism and alienation from Australian society can find itself articulated in taking direct action and the possibility of martyrdom, now exaggerated by being put at the centre of the political agenda as our authority-starved government eagerly joins a war against Jihadists overseas.

The ALP has rushed to support Abbott’s national security push with few questions asked. Any political gains for Abbott will thus be over an ineffectual Left that feels paralysed by his turn, rather than with voters in terms of winning them to some profound agenda.

Unfortunately many Leftists will try to blame his success on the voters and their dark Islamophobic passions / love for authoritarian government / susceptibility to confected panics (pick your preferred David Marr meme) rather than admit the Left has failed to develop a social agenda that might address what is happening.

There is therefore a real risk that the Left will take a defensive position and back off from the kind of social critique it is supposed to be expert at, let alone formulating solutions that might address our modern condition. Yet it is in that modern condition that the roots of “extremism”, “radicalisation” and terrorist violence are to be found.

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cwis
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2014 - 10:10

"We have a situation where a weak government with little social base and its domestic agenda in tatters is playing up the “existential” threat of weak terrorist dregs that have even less of a social base in order to bolster its own authority. This then gives encouragement to a tiny coterie of violent Islamophobes and racists to also act out and compete for media attention. Yet all of these actors are equally products of modern Australian society."

 

Then you can go further

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/30/isis-bomb-muslim-world-air-strikes-saudi-arabia?CMP=ema_1364

This user is a New Matilda supporter. DrGideonPolya
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2014 - 10:43

In the current round of Neocon American and Zionist  Imperialist (NAZI) war-mongering  and “terror hysteria”,  Greens MP Adam Bandt, Independents Andrew Wilkie and Cathy McGowan, and Labor member Melissa Parke  were the only four (4) House of Reps MPs to oppose the present  draconian extensions of anti-terror laws that push Australia further towards a Nazi-style police state. Some science-informed key points below that are steadfastly ignored by the Yellow Press of White Australia (see Gideon Polya, “Australian State Terrorism -  Zero Australian Terrorism Deaths, 1 Million Preventable Australian Deaths & 10 Million Muslims Killed By US Alliance Since 9-11”,  Countercurrents, 23 September, 2014: http://www.countercurrents.org/polya230914.htm ) :

1. Zero (0) Australians have been killed by Muslim terrorists in Australia since 1788.

2. The “empirical annual probability  of an Australian being killed by a terrorist in Australia” is about 1 in 109 million, about 5 times lower than the “empirical annual probability  of an Australian being killed by a shark in Australia” .

3. Of the 6 Australians who were killed by terrorists in Australia in the last 36 years, none were killed by Muslims and it has been expertly speculated that  3 were killed by an Australian Intelligence operation gone wrong. However the new laws mean that an Australia journalist who reports hard evidence for this faces 10 years in prison.

4. Rational risk  management that is crucial  for societal  safety successively involves (a) accurate information, (b) scientific analysis and (c) informed systemic  change to minimize risk. The new terror laws criminalize reportage and hence seriously endanger Australians.

5. 80,000 Australians  die preventably each year  but to minimize this carnage takes money for education and health that will now be shifted to war and spying (the long-term accrual cost of the War on Terror to Australia is , so far, $125 billion). .  

6. The “terror hysteria” Lib-Labs have not put any quantitative estimate of the annual  terror threat to Australia (my estimate 1 in 109 million) i.e. they are deliberately lying by omission.

7.We are told daily that 50% of Australians will suffer a mental illness in their lifetime but this imbalance has not translated into any deaths from Muslim terrorism in Australia whereas the traitorous, US lackey,  pro-Zionist, neoliberal Lib-Labs are inescapably linked to 80,000 preventable Australian  deaths each year and 1 million preventable deaths sunce the US Govenrment's false-flag 9-11 atrocity in 2001 (see “Experts: US did 9-11”: https://sites.google.com/site/expertsusdid911/  ) .

.Decent, informed   Australians who want rational risk management  for a safe, free and prosperous Australia will utterly reject Lib-Lab war and “terror hysteria’, vote 1 Green and put the Coalition last. 

This user is a New Matilda supporter. Rychard
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2014 - 11:02

Can we please call out the Orwellian terms "terrorist" and "terrorism" for what they are?  Psychological triggers to tell the listener that what follows is about unmitigated evil. In fact what we are seeing in Australia at the moment is an understandable response to the perversion of truth and decent genuine democratic principles, as committed by the present rabble in power. Is somebody 'coward punching' somebody in a bar called a 'terrorist"? Theirs is a random act of violence, often for no reason at all. Does the violent burglar get called a 'terrorist', even though their victim IS terrorised?   The label 'terrorism' fits the various 'coalitions of the mindless', far more snugly than it doea any disaffectred and perhaps distturbed individual.

I think what has been missed here is the very real visceral anger at the unimaginable destruction "The West" (US, NATO, Israel) and their useful satellites have wrought upon countries in the ME. Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan utterly devastateded, functioning, strong (and often unbalanced) government scattered, as are the people, as the systems of modern living have been deliberately and systematically destroyed.

It is a wonder that MORE are not really "radicalised" (In proper English, angered at the treatment they and their people have been subjected to) as this article puts it, given the deviously divisive language of the government and its slavish lackeys. Abbott shows this  with his ignorant statement  "I feel confronted by a burqha".. Ganesh help us..

Two questions...

1) What does this writer see as the answer? I could not quite work it out. Sounds a bit as if they want it both ways.

2) What about the thousands of young Australian Jews who go and serve the zionist state every year? What drives their actions? Clearly they are not "radicalised' as nobody importatn comments on their involvement with the apparatus of the apartheid state, so why do they do what they do? Perhaps their loyalty to the myth of where they came from is more important and significant than the loyalty the Muslim youth feels to the country of their roots or relatives?

This user is a New Matilda supporter. Rychard
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2014 - 11:04

Excuse numerous typos... My keyboard is as worn as I.

MJoanneS
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2014 - 11:42

I get so tired of the whining about the left as if we are the damn problem.   The rest of the drivel in this piece is just spewed up rubbish.

IAIN HALL
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2014 - 11:50

Dr Tad

The danger now is that the Left falls into a mindless defence of multiculturalism as guaranteeing “social cohesion” in a multi-ethnic, multi-religious society. In fact it has been a policy dividing Australian society into identity groups, each with “leaders” who superintend “community members” they often have little in common with, in exchange for a privileged relationship to government and politics.

Source

This is not a danger that may happen so much as precisely what the left do, frankly much of it is down to the underlying assumption that all cultures are equal in their virtue and that none may be critiqued because to do so would be evidence of that ultimate evil (in leftist terms ) of "racism". 

Of course blind Freddy can see that not all cultures and religions are equal in their virtues. A culture that practices something utterly beyond the pale like human sacrifice will be quickly dismissed and condemned or in the very least prohibited from continuing the unacceptable cultural practice (we after all don't permit murder of any kind) but it becomes harder to confront or critique any other social practices that are more benign. A good example of this is the the current Hoo har about Muslim women wearing face coverings or the Hijab. As Tony Abbott so succinctly puts it to meet a person with their face covered is confronting and our natural reaction is to treat that person with suspicion and Like our PM I'm happy to acknowledge that individuals do have the right to dress as they please in this country but those who dress in a Burqa et al  have to realize that there is no right to wear such a garment and to be accepted and affirmed for doing so. If you want to wear such covering s then you have to likewise wear the social consequences of doing so. To some extent the same applies to the women who wear a Hijab their right to dress as they please (or how their families insist they dress) is not in question but they too have to wear the consequences in terms of social distrust and the distance it creates between them and other Australians. Essentially you can't say that you want to be included in the greater society while wearing what amounts to a signpost of otherness. That only works in lefty La La Land 

That said I am horrified that anyone should be assaulted over their mode of dress and I really hope that the police treat the criminals who commit such crimes with the full weight of the law there is no place for that sort of thuggery, just is there is no sort of place for the thuggery of people like this chap threatening violence to anyone who critiques his Prophet. 

         

cardinal fang
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2014 - 13:01

The Abbott circus has passed more laws restricting our liberty so the terrorist won't win. I don't know how that works. We are racing off to a war with no borders , no end plan,  no exit strategy. the government has a flaky budget that is a shambles. Apart from promising not to deal with minor parties it seems that Clive is calling the shots. The treasurer is looking for more bludgers to dehumanise and make them poorer. A gulag of prisons for asylum seekers, a deal with a country that is one of the poorest on earth to resettle refugees. So given all that what is dominating the headlines? A garment that no one has worn to Parliament House and maybe worn by a thousand or so women in all of Australia.  

Australians let us all rejoice because we're easily fooled.

BlackIncal
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2014 - 14:27

So only 6 people have died as a result of terrorism in Australia in the last 36 years. So the atrocities at Port Arthur and Hoddle street were not acts of terrorism? Is it because they were men brought up in the Judeo-Christian tradition? Is it because they had no clear and articulated ideology? Or is it because only non Christians carry out terror attacks? Should not the entire Judeo-Christian community be responsible for the mentioned atrocities, this would seem only logical as the Muslim community is apparently responsible for the actions of disaffected youth of the Muslim faith.

As to the arguments about the inability of the left to articulate a reasoned response to terror atrocities, that comes as no surprise. The mainstream left in Australia are simply the other side of the same coin the right occupies. Only a movement which puts Justice front and centre can confront the threat of terror attacks and articulate a dialogue with those who feel alienated from society. A salient fact is that it is not just Muslim youth who feels this alienation, but also the unemployed, the very poor, those with physical or mental disabilities and many many more.

With attacks on Muslims by non-Muslims, should we not ask non-Muslim community leaders what they are doing to stop this?

IAIN HALL
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2014 - 16:28

BlackIncal
 

So only 6 people have died as a result of terrorism in Australia in the last 36 years.

Sigh with respect we live in the age of instant and constant global news, Australians don't have to be killed on our own soil for us to be both aware of and touched by their untimely passing. Thus when Aussies died in the 9/11 attacks or in London and Bali its as if it happened in our own lounge rooms, no with mobile devices it happens in our pockets.

 

So the atrocities at Port Arthur and Hoddle street were not acts of terrorism?

No because they were themselves the point of the acts. The deluded perps had no purpose other than self aggrandizement

Is it because they were men brought up in the Judeo-Christian tradition?

The acts were never done or rationalized in religious terms

Is it because they had no clear and articulated ideology?

Yes

Or is it because only non Christians carry out terror attacks?

The simple truth is that Christianity is at its heart a non violent religion 

Should not the entire Judeo-Christian community be responsible for the mentioned atrocities, this would seem only logical as the Muslim community is apparently responsible for the actions of disaffected youth of the Muslim faith.

There is a simple reason for the almost universal cry of "Allah Akbar!" when suicide bombers set off their bombs its because they are committing their atrocity in the name of their god.

As to the arguments about the inability of the left to articulate a reasoned response to terror atrocities, that comes as no surprise. The mainstream left in Australia are simply the other side of the same coin the right occupies.

I've dabbled with leftism when I was younger and its very different form conservative ideology and not in the way that you imagine. Its far too tied up in emotion and the quest for a perfect society rather than having any understanding of why we are better off settling for workable social  imperfection than dreaming about an impossible to achieve perfection.     

Only a movement which puts Justice front and centre can confront the threat of terror attacks and articulate a dialogue with those who feel alienated from society.

If you believe that you are being delusional. Firstly you have the problem of defining just what "justice" is. We have hundreds of years of jurisprudence to draw upon, millions of words written on history and philosophy all of which provides no simple formula to define justice. Secondly there is the matter of intransigence when it comes to those who follow the ideology of Islam. They truly believe that theirs is the position validated by their God and that to compromise is an affront to that deity. You can only negotiate a settlement to grievances if you can come to a compromise that both sides can agree to or if one party capitulated unequivocally to the demands of the other. When it comes to the Jihadists they will not compromise so we either kill them all or we surrender to their demands. There is no other option       

 

A salient fact is that it is not just Muslim youth who feels this alienation, but also the unemployed, the very poor, those with physical or mental disabilities and many many more.

Yada yada yada! Look its about religion and nihilism  not Marxism

With attacks on Muslims by non-Muslims, should we not ask non-Muslim community leaders what they are doing to stop this?

We don't need to do so because these isolated incidents (if they are actually occurring) are universally condemned.

geoffff
Posted Thursday, October 2, 2014 - 21:15

The problem with the left is that there is something in the leftist psychology, carefully nurtured I suggest, that blocks it from seeing the fifteen foot gorilla with the giant sword standing over there in the corner of the shop. The one that just beheaded the elephant. 

The current, often hysterical, public debate over the terrorist threat in Australia is one in which all sides have danced around the most important empirical fact of all — that the Jihadists are a product of modern Australian society after more than a decade of the so-called War on Terror.

Of course security agencies, the media and politicos have not denied this fact. It’s just that even when it is mentioned, its implications not only go unstated, but Jihadists as automatically painted as an “other” of some kind.

Completely wrong. Not just wrong. Profoundly wrong. It should come as no surprise therefore that every inference drawn from this pinhole facing south view of the world is also wrong.

Far from skirting around the important empirical fact that this vile ideology reaches into the second and three generations, often with increasing intensity, this known global phenomenon is getting unprecedented attention in Australia, and not before time.  

You can thank the images of that young Sydney boy struggling under the weight of a human head for that. And it must be said the quiet dignity of an Australian grandfather, and a brave Muslim community leader.

The most important empirical fact of all is that Jihadists are a product of a world wide ideology spread by the global communication revolution and that like all Nazi style ideologies, its infection rate is independent of local social disadvantage or legitimate social grievance.  

The most important empirical fact of all is that the world is full of shit. 

What is with the left that allows it to shrink and expand its world view according to convenience and even at the same time? How do you do that? One instant we are being told to stop the hysteria because this thing is foreign, not Muslim, and our fault anyway, or the Americans, or the Jews as they keep on saying, but not here. Next the country is excoriated for not living up to its global obligations on global issues -- combating climate change, rescuing refugees, boycotting Jews  

The rate of Nazi infection is a function of how effective and active are the Nazi recruiters. If you want to know what is the appeal of Jihadism  it is impossible to avoid looking at what its pushers are selling. Seriously, how does the left manage to do that? How do you form a party line on what drives Islamic violence, both here and abroad, or what is Islamic imperialism without taking any interest in what the Islamists are actually saying drives them?   

Those flag waving killer rapists in Syria had it infinitely better and freer in Sydney and Melbourne than their parents or any other generation did ever. That the left is setting up Australia as somehow responsible for these criminals and their crimes is not just offensively wrong but dangerous. It feeds the contagion. It reaffirms, rewards and encourages it. 

This article has two highlights. A link to an outstanding article by Paul Monk that accurately frames this an an ideological battle; and a global one at that. His imagery of the nature of the conflict is white hot truth. Highly recommended.

As it was in the SMH I would most certainly have missed this must read. Than you Tad Tietze

The other highlight is the piece nails the ratty irrelevance of the left's squawks about numbers in this horrible war of nerves that this life hating fist of ideologies is waging within itself and against the rest of the world.

One horrible death can move a whole people. Recall the people of Melbourne getting out in numbers in memory of a young woman taken and murdered in the streets by a random psychopath.  Tell them that someone is ten times more likely to slip in the bath than encounter a killer psychopath

The left's use of statistics cut to fit the take of the party line is worth a post on its own. Coming up.

The left does not understand people. It's remarkable but true. This is a consequence of their increasing isolation and elitism. The tragedy is that the Islamists and the head cutters of ISIS and Hamas, and Hezbollah, and AQ and Tehran andl for that matter all the rest across Africa and Asia and into Europe and beyond, know people all too well.  

The Islamists and their fascist fronts run rings around their Western leftist allies.   

 

       

This user is a New Matilda supporter. aussiegreg
Posted Friday, October 3, 2014 - 09:03

I'm astonished that a card-carrying member of the Left would not know that by definition terrorism is the conscious and deliberate terrorising of a civilian population to further a political purpose, since terrorism was invented by the Irgun in the 1930s to further their Zionist ideological purposes, and every respectable Leftie has been well-schooled in excusing the mass murder perpetrated by Muslims on the grounds the poor little darlings have been grievously provoked by the evil Israelis.

The political purpose of Islamist terrorists has been the same since Mohammed was alive: to cover the entire earth with the Ammah, the Nation of Islam, and in the process to offer all infidels a simple choice, bend the knee to the mullahs or die.

In that respect it is remarkably similar to the Marxist ideology served by Dr Tad: come the revolution, you either bend the knee to commissars like Dr Tad or you get worked to death in the nearest gulag.

This user is a New Matilda supporter. chris graham
Posted Friday, October 3, 2014 - 09:49

@aussiegreg: Presumably, you're unaware of the history of Christianity. Or the marauding Buddhist monks. Or the slaughters by Sikhs. Or the actions of the west for the better part of half a century. Or the numerous war crimes of Israel. Or the history of the expansion of the Catholic Church.

My point being, you seem, Aussiegreg, to know not of what you speak. Indeed, you smell a bit like an Islamophobe, which appears to be the new black.

This user is a New Matilda supporter. aussiegreg
Posted Friday, October 3, 2014 - 19:06

Salaam eleikum, sat sri akaal, and tashi delek Chrisji

You're right, I am abysmally ignorant about these matters, and what's worse I am prone to display my ignorance in the languages of the cultures under consideration of which I happen to speak a little.

I'm sure that's not a mistake you ever made with the many Aboriginal languages you speak.

Actually, despite living in a Sikh household for a while during my 14 months on the subcontinent, my Punjabi never rose above the abysmal.

I did, however, get to see the heavily-bloodstained (windowless) back room of another Sikh family's house in New Delhi, where a Hindu mob had massacred 20 or so family members hiding in the wake of Indira Gandhi's assassination by her Sikh bodyguards, so if your point is that any community is capable of sectarian violence I would clearly agree.

Most of the little I know of radical Islam comes from two Iranian refugee friends, one of whom insists on calling herself Persian, not Iranian, and denies that she speaks Farsi which she insists on calling Persian too. Regular Islam I know (if at all) from my many Urdu-speaking friends, and from a token Palestinian friend from Ramallah (his family fled to Oz in 1973 when he was a teenager) who insists on calling himself Jordanian! I met his uncle by chance in Varanasi/Banaras/Kashi running an Arab restaurant, just to show how small the world can be.

It has been many decades since I sat down to tea for an hour or two with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, so my Tibetan is a little rusty, but I'm pretty sure that (even in the original Pali) Buddhism has never been a religion spread by armed force, nor has it ever spoken of turning the world into a single Buddhist nation, theocratic or otherwise.

Please point me to any verses in the Guru Granth Sahib I may have missed, but IMHO the Sikh warrior tradition is likewise all about defending the Golden Temple in Amritsar etc, and Sikhism has never had territorial (let alone proselytising) ambitions beyond the borders of the Punjab.

Ditto Judaism and Israel, although I can't help observing that once again New Matilda makes excuses for the enemies of Israel whose warcrimes vastly exceed hers in both scope and venality.

Christian history is rather more vexing, although I love to point out to those who (rightly) condemn Islamofascists as just mediaeval barbarians, that when Christians were the mediaeval barbarians back in mediaeval times, the light of civilisation (and what today would be called the scientific method) was kept alive in Muslim lands, returning to Europe to ignite the Enlightenment.

Certainly Christianity did not start, unlike Islam, as a religion feared for the violence its adherents wreaked on their neighbours, with the open encouragement of Mohammed. While the armies of the Prophet were sent to conquer territory, the Disciples of Christ went in peace to spread the gospel. Many Indians believe Doubting Thomas landed in Kerala in 50 A.D. and converted the base for what is the Syriac Church in southern India today before being martyred in Tamil Nadu – there are many millions more Indian Christians in this indigenous church than in all the churches started by Western missionaries in India over the centuries.

As an atheist I am an equal-opportunity derider of religious belief, but I find it striking that none of the European empires imposed their variants of the Christian religion on the peoples they colonised, let alone offered the Islamic choice of convert or die. Certainly the latter was hugely effective in multiplying the population of Muslims in India a millionfold under Moghul rule, leaving the legacy of the divided subcontinent we have today, with Muslim Pakistan pointing its "Islamic bombs" at an India with more Muslims living within its borders than live in Pakistan and Bangladesh (formerly East Pakistan) combined.

As for my being an Islamophobe, if you are not scared of Jihadists you haven't been paying attention. I realised I had underestimated the dangers of radical Islam when the man who had sung about the peace train converted to Islam and suddenly thought it was fine to gun a man down in the street for writing a book.

Not that any of that excuses the fear industry and its (depressingly successful) assault on our liberties.

Khuda hafiz

ऑज़ी गरेग

 

 

 

 

 

 

IAIN HALL
Posted Saturday, October 4, 2014 - 08:48

Thanks for that Aussie Greg !

geoffff
Posted Saturday, October 4, 2014 - 12:43

I suppose it is incumbent on me to point out that aussiegreg's otherwise fine piece is marred by one little piece of commonly held bullshit.

Irgun did not invent political terrorism in the thirties. Not even bomb terrorism.

Anarchists and Irish republicans were blowing apart pubs. post offices, banks and people from Chicago to London since the start of the century . You don't even want to know what the Bolsheviks were doing in Europe and if much of the Spanish civil war was not politically inspired terrorism aimed at a helpless civilian population then we need to define what we are talking about.  

Besides the worst thing Irgun ever did was think that a two minute bomb warning from a Jew to a bunch of British officers at the bar of their HQ would be taken at all seriously.

They were still laughing when their drinks exploded, from some accounts.

 

This user is a New Matilda supporter. aussiegreg
Posted Sunday, October 5, 2014 - 16:39

@geoffff

Who knows, I may be the original source of this particular calumny since I'm pretty sure I first used it over 40 years ago, purely to tease a certain earnest Zionist of my brief acquaintance. (Rather as I think I may be the first person to use the expression "feminazis", originally for the Rad Fems who ran a community radio station for which I did a couple of programs back in the 1970s – I certainly thought I was being original, I certainly hoped I was being humorous, and I would never have expected to justify either tag as literally true.)

I can, of course, distinguish the examples you give, as I'm sure you know. None of the groups you mention were trying to terrorise a civilian population into taking flight so that a religiously-different population could take their place – 19th-century anarchists wanted that population to continue in place but free of all rulers, the IRA wanted the Protestants to stay where they could be kept nicely under the thumb of the overwhelming Catholic majority in a united Ireland, the Bolsheviks wanted to invert the social order without having anyone leave (except in a pine box), and both the Communist/Republican and the Fascist forces in the Spanish civil war wanted to impose their ideology on the existing population, not move in a new one.

But all those distinctions, if treated as defining ones, would have the unfortunate consequence of narrowing the meaning of terrorism to the actions of groups like the Irgun and ISIS/ISIL/IS (or the Ustasha and its Serbian equivalents in the Balkans back in the last millennium, to give a couple of Christian equivalents), and that's clearly unhelpful.

I note the example of an Irgun terrorist action you give is arguably not an act of true terrorism at all, since not only were the victims military personnel, but the political motivation was not so much to terrorise a civilian population into supporting political changes that would favour the ideology of the terrorists (or into leaving), but rather a direct attempt to force the British to abandon their Palestinian mandate to the tender mercies of the militias, Jewish and Arab.

EarnestLee
Posted Monday, October 6, 2014 - 02:14

There seems to be a simple answer to the vexing issue that "Multiculturism equals Tribalism" and that the Australian Governments authority and prestige is so poor that it subcontracts its message/responsibilities to tribal "chiefs". The answer is beyond the reach of politicians who fear an empowered citizenry more than "terrorists"

That is why they deny the one glue to make a nation of many tribes. That is a Bill of Rights where all are certified equal.

Ian G
Posted Monday, October 6, 2014 - 19:32

1. Zero (0) Australians have been killed by Muslim terrorists in Australia since 1788.

Whoops.

Started back in 1915. 4 dead. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Broken_Hill