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Anonymous Bernard said...

(1) I read elsewhere that Jack Donovan was a priest, for a time, in a revival of one of the pre-Christian ethnic religions of Europe. This past vocation may color his sometimes unfamiliar choice of ideas and English words.

In principle, I support the revival of pre-Christian, ethnic, and folk religions by those “called” to do this work. Matthew Lyons may see danger in Norse ethnic religious revival, as it appeals to white nationalists and right-wing anarchists. But IMHO all ethnic groups have a right to understand, accept, and take pride in positive aspects of their past ethnic heritage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Congress_of_Ethnic_Religions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-v%C3%B6lkisch_movements#Nordic_racial_paganism

As with Matthew Lyons, I also sense there is danger in these ideas. Opinion profoundly at odds with what is generally accepted in the wider culture today is dangerous. Within an ethnoreligious group, there is always the possibility of developing ideas that are anathema, heresy, blasphemy, & apostasy.

E.g., Rabbi Meir Kahane's work was “far right wing,” & terrorist. The danger he "courted" was turned against himself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meir_Kahane

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group


(2) Donovan is homosexual, & not anti-homosexual. He neither advertises nor hides his homosexuality, nor does he encourage the punishment of homosexual acts in others. This is significant progress if/as this is coming from a homosexual on the “far right!”

Islamofascists, and most on the “far right” (until now), are honestly repulsed by homosexuality. Some violently and unfairly persecute homosexual acts, and do so with impunity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_scare

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Persecution_of_Homosexuals

Donovan's particular homosexual experiences color his unfamiliar choice of words and ideas. There is danger here for Donovan in the alliances he makes, but he can do some good with them, too. High risk, high gain.

http://antifascistnews.net/tag/jack-donovan/


(3) Donovan contributes ideas to the masculinist and men's rights movement. These movements may do for some men (and for the wider culture) what feminism and the woman's rights movement may do for some woman.

Males are statistically over-represented as victims and perpetrators of violence, murder, suicide, terrorism, and war. Males are statistically over-represented in prisons. To be “politically correct,” male rates of incarceration should be lowered to “equal” that of females. Only partially joking :-)

Forced conscription into the military (not in service to the small tribe) was usually gender-based violence against males.

http://www.warrenfarrell.org/

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Men's_rights_movement

https://victorzen.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/mhrm-literature/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_men

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_children

http://sdi.sagepub.com/content/37/1/83.full.pdf+html


(4) Donovan is open to evolutionary psychology. He does not deny the use of reason, social science, nor evolution. So there is this new space to wiggle around with Donovan's ideas. Research, like this below, might be better done by those who understand Donovan's archetype of the male warrior:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3260849/

Jack Donovan writes and speaks extensively for himself. Here is his post about "fear":

http://www.counter-currents.com/2015/11/all-they-have-is-fear/


(5) Donovan advocates positions which Lyons may fear are dangerous. Some of the fear and danger can be dissipated by friendly talk among peers, I take liberty to invite the allies of Jack Donovan to read Matthew's lengthy post above and respond to Lyon's ideas. I hope all would benefit.

http://www.jack-donovan.com/axis/2012/06/blogging-is-free-comments-are-a-black-hole/

December 12, 2015 7:49 PM

Anonymous Bernard said...


(6) What is the “Manophere”? A portmanteau of man & blogosphere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manosphere

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Manosphere

New links are added daily to the “Manosphere.” Two links below list many websites; the first is updated hourly!

The "Manosphere" followed the 2nd Wave of Feminism (1960's - 1980's). For every move, there may be an equal & opposite reaction.

An extreme example: the French “Reign of Terror” (1793-4) followed the Age of Enlightenment (1715 – 1789).

http://vivalamanosphere.com/

http://www.manosphere.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-wave_feminism


(7) Matthew wrote:

“Donovan is more favorably disposed toward the so-called manosphere, a loose on-line network of men who promote vicious hostility toward feminism and sexual predation toward women.”

Donovan is favorably disposed towards masculine men. Vive la différence!


(8) Donovan opposes globalism & feminism. So?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_and_feminism#Recent_polls

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifeminism#21st_century

http://en.wikimannia.org/Antifeminism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-globalization_movement


(9) Matthew linked the word “manosphere” to this Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) Report.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2012/misogyny-sites

The SPLC did not put Men's Rights Advocates on its list of “hate” movements. It acknowledged the grievances of Men's Rights Advocates had merit.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2012/05/15/intelligence-report-article-provokes-fury-among-mens-rights-activists

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2014/war-women


(10) The Wikipedia encyclopedic entry for “Men's Rights Movement” has not been settled to date. See the 2nd Wikipedia talk page below for a list of volunteer editors that have been "punished" by administrators for their editing “crimes.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Men's_rights_movement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Men's_rights_movement/Article_probation

Actually, today, this Wikipedia entry is okay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_rights_movement


(11) An excellent encyclopedic entry for “Men's Rights Movement” was put together, in a multi-language international effort, by German-speaking, masculinist editors of the Wikimannia. They apparently collaborate with English-speaking Americans.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/fighting-wikipedia-corruption-avfm-partnership-with-wikimannia/

http://en.wikimannia.org/Men%27s_rights_movement


(12) Getting away from Donovan, but looking for common ground with Matthew:

- Young males need emotional support; they need to love and to be loved. Personal speculation: Young men will make better lovers if they are first allowed to adapt to/or reject feminism, to vent any personal hostility towards woman & feminism. This will take its time and cannot be forced. How this turns out, in each individual case, cannot be predicted.

- We can offer support to feminists and to the SPLC. Lone wolves or small groups targeting woman or blacks for death, vilification, and/or verbal abuse, simply because they are female and/or black, is wrong.

- We can offer support to masculinists and Men's Right Advocates: targeting men for death or vilification, simply because they are male, is wrong.

- To the extent possible, reduce unnecessary bombing of civilians, avoid unnecessary targeted murder, and unnecessary random verbal abuse of Islamic fundamentalists.

- Reduce unnecessary violence.

(13)

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/warren-farrell-mens-rights-movement-feminism-misogyny-trolls

http://takimag.com/article/we_have_nothing_to_fear_but_the_manosphere_itself_nicholas_james_pell/print#axzz33DEV4pjM

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?_r=0

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/unblinking-stare

December 19, 2015 7:47 PM

Blogger Ghost Immaculate said...

Sigh. I wonder if any dude reads anything but Nietzsche. Regurgitate.

November 28, 2016 1:38 AM

Blogger squareyellowpaper Warthog1950 said...

I agree with most of those ideas central to Donovan's premise. Yes, homosexuality is not a choice. Some Gay men buy into a pop Gay culture that usually is dependent on a a geographic, Gay ghetto. The feminine-flamboyant identity is adapted by many younger Gay men who are depend on the community for acceptance and safety. I do not embrace that lifestyle, but I will not condemn others for their choices. Being Gay is not a choice, but adapting the feminine-flamboyant character is.
As a personal choice, although I am Gay, I am find my strength from an internal place, my maleness. I celebrate it. I celebrate and have found that I have far more in common that not. I have always had heterosexual friends who I have met in life. They are not threatened by my sexuality and know that I respect the fact that they are straight. The tribal bond between men (straight and Gay, included) is a right for the males of our species. Our society and the idea of maleness can, and must be restored. Ancient Western cultures should be held as examples of true maleness and the fact that maleness (both straight and male) are under attack. It is time for all of us to discover our male essence. Such discovery is not made by praying to an exterior force, but to become far more in touch with our ability to look no farther than to ourselves for hope, for power, for direction, for knowledge, and for strength. My penis, alone, should be my entry card to the brotherhood of all men.

December 12, 2016 11:15 AM

Anonymous Bernard said...

Welcome Warthog1950
Thanks for sharing how Jack Donovan's ideas have had a positive effect on the acceptance of your sexual orientation.
Matthew alerts us about the danger of fascism in some of Jack Donovan's alt.right ideas. Do you see and fear any of that, too?

December 18, 2016 11:04 AM

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