As reported in today’s Seattle P-I, the Democrats are challenging the bogus voter registration challenge-cum-intimidation scheme the Republicans trod out just days before last Tuesday’s election.
Democratic lawyer David McDonald said Monday state law requires the challenger to supply the actual address at which the challenged voter resides — something Sotelo did not do.
“The law is pretty clear,” he said, adding that the challenges should be dismissed out of hand.
I’ve obtained a PDF of McDonald’s letter to Dean Logan, but the gist of his legal argument is a fairly simple one. RCW 29A.08.830 clearly states that “the person filing the challenge must furnish the address at which the challenged voter actually resides.” If that’s not clear enough, the Voter Registration Challenge Form, as defined by WAC 434-324-115 restates that requirement twice:
If the challenge is based on residence, RCW 29A.08.830 requires the challenger to provide the address at which the challenged voter actually resides.
Yet the Republicans made absolutely no effort to verify the challenged voters’ actual residences. Instead, they just creatively enhanced the Challenge Form, adding on a new check box:
Pretty sneaky, huh? Too lazy and irresponsible to do the work necessary to provide the voter’s actual address, as required by law, the Republicans simply concocted a new category for challenging a voter’s registration, and tacked it onto the end of the form. Go check out WAC 434-324-115… there is no sixth check box! Sotelo & Company made it up!
I checked with King County Records & Elections; the form the KC GOP used was not the standard form provided by the state or the county. Thus there can be absolutely no possible way to chalk this up to human error or an innocent misreading of the law. Knowing that they had not done due diligence, and had not met the requirements of the voter registration challenge provisions, the Republicans intentionally modified the challenge form to suit their needs.
Thus Lori Sotelo’s affidavits were not only perjurious… they bordered on fraud.
Why would the Republicans file nearly 2000 bogus voter registration challenges when they knew they would likely not hold up in court? I can think of only two reasons: a) this was part of a campaign of voter suppression and intimidation the GOP has been pursuing nationwide, and b) it was a desperate, last minute PR stunt… the death-cry of their yearlong campaign to discredit KCRE, and by association, Ron Sims and the Democrats.
If it was merely the latter, it explosively backfired. Due to the GOP’s unwillingness to do the work required by law, hundreds of voters were wrongly challenged, either through dumbfuck errors (like apartment buildings Sotelo claimed not to exist) or through a cynical misrepresentation of state law. Many of the challenged voters live in house boats or in commercial buildings… “nontraditional” addresses WAC 434-208-100 clearly contemplates:
No person registering to vote, who meets all the qualifications of a registered voter in the state of Washington, shall be disqualified because of a nontraditional physical address being used as a residence address. Nontraditional addresses may include shelters, parks or other identifiable locations which the voter deems to be his/her residence. Voters using such an address will be registered and precincted based on the location provided.
Just because an address appears to be nonresidential does not mean it is an invalid registration address. That is why the law requires the challenger to provide evidence of the voter’s actual address.
Ironically, McDonald concludes his letter by citing the precedent set by Judge Bridges in the GOP’s failed contest lawsuit.
As a result of the recent close Gubernatorial election, this State has recently undergone extensive litigation concerning the meaning of its election laws. One of the clearest judicial results in that exercise was the decision by Judge Bridges that voters could not be stripped of their votes (or registrations) based on just such assumptions. […]
Those principles were not enshrined by the Legislature and recognized by Judge Bridges simply to make it difficult to challenge elections or voter registrations. It shouldn’t be easy for a private party to challenge a voter’s registration and our state’s law plainly imposes specific and high standards. A challenge which fails to include essential, statutorily-required elements is patently insufficient to meet those standards.
In relentlessly attacking KCRE, the Republicans hope to add weight to the myth they’ve perpetuated, that Democrats somehow “stole” the 2004 gubernatorial election. But there’s a reason why they cannot find a single auditor to support their allegations that KCRE is rife with fraud, corruption and incompetence… why a Republican Secretary of State and a Republican County Prosecutor have dismissed their charges while Republican federal prosecutors refuse to investigate… and why a cherry-picked, elected judge in a Republican county dismissed their case with prejudice. It has no merit!
The Republicans hope that if they puff out a thick enough smokescreen, voters will eventually see fire. But I think voters are smarter than that, for rather than discrediting KCRE, stupid, cynical stunts like this one end up discrediting the accusers.
What the GOP has proven here is not that there are thousands of illegal registrations, or that KCRE refuses to do its job, but that GOP leaders are more than willing to disenfranchise innocent voters for the sake of a cheap, publicity stunt…. or worse. Every “reform” the Republicans champion is intended to suppress the vote, and whether you believe this is based on a cynical electoral strategy or a sincere philosophical difference, the result is the same. Should the Republicans have their way, thousands of legal, WA voters would be purged from the roles, while tens of thousands more would have their ballots discarded as unreadable by the vote counting machines.
Our state elections laws strike a delicate balance between preserving the integrity of the voter rolls, and protecting the franchise of eligible voters. Given the opportunity, the GOP would clearly tip this balance steeply in the wrong the direction.
UPDATE:
A week after the election, Sotelo today rescinded 12 more challenges.
It’s pretty simple and your post is entirley too long.
If they have done this illegally, the parties responsible should be held to the fullest extent of the law.
Interesting that the right wing wackos want to hold any Dem’s feet to the fire on the smallest of technicalities, and then expect to get a free pass when their side violates the law. Lying thieving cowardly bastards – equals GOP!
Changing an official form to add a new option represents a remarkable piece of sleight-of-hand. Why do the Republicans hate democracy so much? What is it about the rule of law that gets their panties in such a twist? Fortunately, last week’s election results (912, 330, Ron Sims) demonstrate that they are an insignificant fringe in this state. Maybe they’ll just skulk off to their caves, or to Kansas, and leave our fair state alone.
What is the penalty for altering government forms? You say fraud…is that right?
What does this say about the possible penalty?
wow, left winger comes out for vote/voter integrity
Goldy, you missed all the fraud and irregularities a year ago; were you connected to the internet back then.
I agree with the Republicans that King County has some serious voter issues. I don’t agree with the tactic they chose.
They left themselves looking like fools while not fixing the problem. In fact it has left the people commiting vote fraud and open door to do it again.
It just shows that no matter if there is a D or R next to the name, stupidity is universal.
Well, the law actually says that any voter registration challenge requires that the actual address of the challenged voter be provided:
RCW 29A.08.830
Affidavit — Administration, notice of challenge.
(1) Any registered voter may request that the registration of another voter be canceled if he or she believes that the voter does not meet the requirements of Article VI, section 1 of the state Constitution or that voter no longer maintains a legal voting residence at the address shown on his or her registration record. The challenger shall file with the county auditor a signed affidavit subject to the penalties of perjury, to the effect that to his or her personal knowledge and belief another registered voter does not actually reside at the address as given on his or her registration record or is otherwise not a qualified voter and that the voter in question is not protected by the provisions of Article VI, section 4, of the Constitution of the state of Washington. The person filing the challenge must furnish the address at which the challenged voter actually resides.
If interpreted literally, the law could make registration challenges of illegally registered voters impossible.
For example, if you register a non-existent name, such as Mickey Mouse or Felix The Cat, then filing a challenge would be impossible. Non-existent people don’t actually reside anywhere, so you can’t provide an actual residence address.
Similarly, if you get 500 Democrat activists from Massachusetts to registered at the Crossroads UPS Store in Bellevue, it would be very difficult to challenge them. Especially if the Bellevue UPS Store is given as their “residence address” and a UPS Store in Boston is given as their “mailing address”.
We could even get 1000 North Korean soldiers to register at Goldy’s house. They would be obviously non-U.S. citizens and non-residents of this state and obviously couldn’t all live with Goldy in any event. But unless the challenger could discover their actual residence address (a task basically impossible in the “Democratic” People’s Republic of Korea), no challenges could be filed and all these Commie soldiers could vote without impediment (and be defended by Demo lawyer David McDonald to boot).
re: #5 — “all the fraud and irregularities a year ago”
I’m sorry, what did I miss? Did the Secretary of State or a judge find fraud? Were there any indictments or convictions?
Add forgery to the list of potential felony charges against Sotelo.
Don’t confuse the trolls with facts! It’s much easier to allude to fraud by 500 North Koreans than to actually prove any such thing has occurred. Don’t deprive them of the opportunity to interfere with the voting rights of actual citizens in order to prevent the fictitious acts of boogie men.
@5
“Goldy, you missed all the fraud and irregularities a year ago; were you connected to the internet back then.”
What fraud? Republifucks spent $2 million of their own money proving there was NO FRAUD!!! In addition to being liars, they’re stoopid!!! Now we have evidence in hand of actual election fraud committed by Refucklicans. Lying stupid hypocrites!
“Nontraditional addresses may include… identifiable locations which the voter deems to be his/her residence.”
Note the word residence. Now, both parks and shelters can be places where one resides. However, if one actually believes that a 6″ x 6″ x 12″ locked box is their residence, they are likely mentally incompetent since the smallest adult human being on record is just under two feet tall (and much too large for a PMB box). You could go all metaphysica on the subject, but then we could vote wherever we want and the rolls in SF would be overloaded with people who “left their heart in San Francisco.”
Language specifics aside, there is/was no excuse for the manner in which the KCGOP filed those challenges.
Richard @7,
Come on… I never house more than 20 Korean soldiers at my house at any one time. (My basement smells of kim-chee.)
The statute does not make challenges impossible, just difficult. As they should be. (As the GOP stunt proved necessary.)
The fact is, for the nearly 2000 people on their list, the GOP didn’t even attempt to determine their actual address. They didn’t just fail to follow the law, they failed to attempt to follow the law.
re 7: Yes , Richard, that is such a plausible scenerio. Another thing we could do is to get 1 person to register a thousand times at a garbage dump. Then we could buy 1,000 fake moutaches and have that person change disguises 1,ooo times and hand in “provisional ballots” for each “voter”. Then we could get Roger Rabbit/Dean Logan to tally the 1,000 ballots for the Leninist/Trotskyite/Stalinist Democrats.
I don’t want to reveal too much, but that generally is how it’s done– with alot of help from Roger Rabbit/Dean Logan. We can’t vote Felix the Cat because although we can assign him an address, we cannot provide cartoons with corporeal bodies. Don’t get a hardon Richard: I said corporeal, not corporate.
>UPDATE:
>A week after the election, Sotelo today rescinded 12 more >challenges.
Nice. But the damage was done.
They successfully kept valid voters from voting through their bogus tactics. They were hoping that it would be enough to make a difference in the election and they might be able to just get off with a fine later.
Next time, perhaps they will send a challenge notice to every King County voter, reduce turnout by 10 percent there and win the US Senate race.
@7
Typical rightwing troll – making shit up, while denying their crimes.
I am not Roger Rabbit, but I will be at Drinking Liberally tonight. I’m married, so Roger doesn’t have to worry about me cutting into his action. I’ll be the guy with a beer who looks like a liberal.
wow…
We’d better see some prosecution here. This is way beyond the pale.
Wow. Another reason not to vote GOP. Not only are they fascist, heartless, pigs, they’re incompetant to boot.
Wow; a year later and still no illegals tagged by Dean baby.
Double standard.
@20
typical rightie troll. Can’t tell the difference between ‘editing a document to make illegal claims’ and ‘there was fraud in 2004 ’cause I said so!’
I’m not 100% sure, but hasn’t KC removed like 90000 inactive registrations from the rolls anyways?
Actually, the law has to be interpreted in its context. Dean Logan is interpreting the challenge law with the proper context.
Providing the actual residence address is intended only for the situation where the voter has CHANGED RESIDENCES. If they registered at a valid residence to begin with (and are otherwise qualified), you have to prove they are living at a different residence in order to disqualify them on that basis.
If a voter is no longer living (i.e. dead) or never was alive (at least as a human being — i.e. Mickey Mouse, Felix The Cat, Roger Rabbit), you don’t have to prove their actual residence, since that would be ridiculous.
If you have 500 folks at Goldy’s address for their “residence” who list an army unit from the “Democratic” People’s Republic of Korea, you don’t have to prove where they actually live either.
And if you have 100 or more folks listing a given UPS Store as their “residence”, they get disqualified because they never lived there in the first place — NOT because they have “changed” their residential address since registering. And you shouldn’t have to prove where they actually live either.
This makes perfect sense when applied to a mailbox address challenge. In order to register in the first place, a voter has to “prove” where they live by stating their actual residence address under penalty of perjury. If a voter failed to prove an actual residence address when they registered, a challenger should not be required to prove an actual residence address either.
I would finally note that it is easier to trace a person’s actual current residence address, when they provided their actual former residence address to begin with. If a voter makes that task more difficult by providing a blatantly false mailbox “residence” address to begin with, why should the challenger be faced with the extra burden?
Great Scoop – how embarrassing for Logan to send out all those challenge letters based on incomplete voter challenges.
I wonder what Logan would have done it they added a box that said “Dance like a chicken”
Are the right wing PINHEADS (oops, sorry) just plain stupid? Here’s a legitimate case of fraud, and the best they can do is allude to something that never happened as a reason to let this slip?
If you had a boss as incompetent as Vance is, co-workers as fucked up as the ultra-right religious zealots are, and a company clearly as screwed as the Republican party is, you’d quit in an instance unless you were just a total idiot.
I hope Lori is at least bisexual because she’s going to get a chance for some woman-loving inside one of our state’s institutions for reform. Who would be such an idiot to allow his/her name to appear on such a fraudulent document?
Yawn,
Logan’s never checked out the dwarfs living in mail boxes; law is busted. This over vote, missing ballots, extra ballots nonsense encouraged by Reed and Logan effectively cancels ballots of the honest, legit voters.
Are all this 2 inch tall dwarf voters also doing Jury Duty?
Erik @ 15
Do you have the valid residence addresses for these voters kept from voting?
BUBBA TELLS ISRAEL, “IRAN NO THREAT TO YOU”
WHAT? How about that whole Israel is a blot, push into ocean, kill the jew, exterminate them thingy?
righton @ 5
“Goldy, you missed all the fraud and irregularities a year ago; were you connected to the internet back then. “
Nope…Goldy did a great job covering the fradulent GOP election challenge.
What the F is Bill Clinton doing? Ex-president Bill Clinton urged Israelis over the weekend not to overreact to comments by newly elected Iranian President
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad recommending that Israel be “wiped off the map.”
Bill, this dick was put in power because he is a Jew hater and a USA hater. The election was a sham. The reform candidate was winning so the mooolahs jacked this pimp into the drivers seat because he would be their puppet.
Bill Clinton, you are an ass. A dangerous ass.
woah… watch the rightie trolls talk about (you’d never guess…) BILL CLINTON!
Gimme a break. You can’t hide from what your party did.
I HAVE IT ON GOOD AUTHORITY THAT THE IRANIAN PRESIDENT IS A PICKLE SNIFFER
At least, that is the rumor I am spreading.
On a lighter note: Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad, Iran’s fundamentalist president, declared that Israel should be “wiped off the map” and warned Arab countries against developing economic ties with Israel in response to its withdrawal from Gaza.
Hmmmm. And Mahmoud also said his Nuke program was just for “peaceful” purposes. Okaaay……. He went on to say the the rest of us White Infidel Devils will perish in the Hell of our fathers. What ever that means.
Nothing a strongly worded letter from Koffi and Co. at the UN wouldn’t fix right?
umm, joe, why are you talking about this here?
Are you really that threatened by the fact that the head of the KCGOP commited fraud?
Read the trollfuck posts in this thread. These people have no shame, no honor, no morals.
Josef for Honest Elections, your country needs you! C’mon, let’s wipe out these instances of voter intimidation and fraud–complete with evidence even a Republican can’t ignore. I’m sure you’ll be right on that, it’s in your area of “expertise!” Josef? Josef?
(crickets)
Windie; Ron Sims cooked the elections books; gotta fight fire with fire. Morally ok to beat the enemy at his own game (snicker)
Where’s the post on the Seattle $7 million garage for that stupid trolley (or nice trolly, stupid expesnive garage)
Richard Pope.
Richard Pope.
“Actually, the law has to be interpreted in its context. Dean Logan is interpreting the challenge law with the proper context.
Providing the actual residence address is intended only for the situation where the voter has CHANGED RESIDENCES.”
Huh? Can you cite the RCW for that? RCW 29A.08.830(1) does not support your claim. The first part of the paragraph states two of the beliefs that a challenger might have in order to challenge a voter (“Any registered voter may request that the registration of another voter be canceled if he or she believes that the voter does not meet the requirements of Article VI, section 1 of the state Constitution or that voter no longer maintains a legal voting residence at the address shown on his or her registration record.”).
The last part of the paragraph clearly states that “The person filing the challenge must furnish the address at which the challenged voter actually resides.” This statement is NOT conditional on either of the two reasons specified earlier in the paragraph. Hence the requirement must apply to both (or all) reasons under this part of the RCW.
“If they registered at a valid residence to begin with (and are otherwise qualified), you have to prove they are living at a different residence in order to disqualify them on that basis.”
Nope. Counterexample: if you challenge someone for mental incompetence based on Article VI Sec. I of the constitution, RCW 29A.08.830 clearly requires the current residence.
“If a voter is no longer living (i.e. dead) or never was alive (at least as a human being – i.e. Mickey Mouse, Felix The Cat, Roger Rabbit), you don’t have to prove their actual residence, since that would be ridiculous.”
A dead voter cannot be challenged under RCW 29A.08.830. Rather, RCW 29A.08.510 (3) applies–and it does not require an address of the dead person.
“If you have 500 folks at Goldy’s address for their “residence” who list an army unit from the “Democratic” People’s Republic of Korea, you don’t have to prove where they actually live either.”
Do you have case law or some other RCW to support your claim?
“This makes perfect sense when applied to a mailbox address challenge. In order to register in the first place, a voter has to “prove” where they live by stating their actual residence address under penalty of perjury. If a voter failed to prove an actual residence address when they registered, a challenger should not be required to prove an actual residence address either.”
Well…unless you are challenging them under RCW 29A.08.830, which does require a current address.
“If a voter makes that task more difficult by providing a blatantly false mailbox “residence” address to begin with, why should the challenger be faced with the extra burden? “
(1) because it is the law
(2) because it prevents abuses of the type the type the GOP committed.
(3) because it is part of due diligence.
(4) because it makes the administrative process of contacting the voter manageable.
“Actually, the law has to be interpreted in its context. Dean Logan is interpreting the challenge law with the proper context.
Providing the actual residence address is intended only for the situation where the voter has CHANGED RESIDENCES.”
Huh? Can you cite the RCW for that? RCW 29A.08.830(1) does not support your claim. The first part of the paragraph states two of the beliefs that a challenger might have in order to challenge a voter (“Any registered voter may request that the registration of another voter be canceled if he or she believes that the voter does not meet the requirements of Article VI, section 1 of the state Constitution or that voter no longer maintains a legal voting residence at the address shown on his or her registration record.”).
The last part of the paragraph clearly states that “The person filing the challenge must furnish the address at which the challenged voter actually resides.” This statement is NOT conditional on either of the two reasons specified earlier in the paragraph. Hence the requirement must apply to both (or all) reasons under this part of the RCW.
“If they registered at a valid residence to begin with (and are otherwise qualified), you have to prove they are living at a different residence in order to disqualify them on that basis.”
Nope. Counterexample: if you challenge someone for mental incompetence based on Article VI Sec. I of the constitution, RCW 29A.08.830 clearly requires the current residence.
“If a voter is no longer living (i.e. dead) or never was alive (at least as a human being – i.e. Mickey Mouse, Felix The Cat, Roger Rabbit), you don’t have to prove their actual residence, since that would be ridiculous.”
A dead voter cannot be challenged under RCW 29A.08.830. Rather, RCW 29A.08.510 (3) applies–and it does not require an address of the dead person.
“If you have 500 folks at Goldy’s address for their “residence” who list an army unit from the “Democratic” People’s Republic of Korea, you don’t have to prove where they actually live either.”
Do you have case law or some other RCW to support your claim?
“This makes perfect sense when applied to a mailbox address challenge. In order to register in the first place, a voter has to “prove” where they live by stating their actual residence address under penalty of perjury. If a voter failed to prove an actual residence address when they registered, a challenger should not be required to prove an actual residence address either.”
Well…unless you are challenging them under RCW 29A.08.830, which does require a current address.
“If a voter makes that task more difficult by providing a blatantly false mailbox “residence” address to begin with, why should the challenger be faced with the extra burden? “
(1) because it is the law
(2) because it prevents abuses of the type the type the GOP committed.
(3) because it is part of due dilligance
righton:
see the problem is, is the fact that there’s simply NO evidence for that. Stupid righties think because they want there to be fraud (isn’t that wierd? but its true…) there must have been.
Its incomprehensible to them that they’d lose, given all their tricks.
Pathetic, I know… but at least its nice that we’re getting cases like this, where the tricks are backfiring.
Oops, I pasted the wrong version…
(3) because it is part of due diligence.
(4) because it makes the administrative process of contacting the voter manageable.
Me @ 36
Oops, I see what happened. The new version got pasted before the old. Damn!
Sorry.
Windie,
Give me a break, you guys got hit by a pitch and then you hit a home run. Go back to the election, few of the laws on voter id, voter bookkeeping, etc were ever followed. And what, 1 guy got reassigned? Even earring man said it was all screwed up.
Nice catch 22 to box us into; you write bad laws, give us demo politicians and left leaning judges, then expect lack of a conviction to prove you guys are innocent
Forgery?
That sounds serious on top of fraud.
righton @ 40
Nice defense “write bad laws” —
Your honor, that “robbery” thing is just a bad democratic evil law.
Geez.
Soleto needs to be tried and then jailedm for a looooong time as an example for future wingnuts attempting voter disenfranchisement.
“Bordered” on fraud? Goldy, you’re far too kind!
rightoff @ 41 “Even earring man said it was all screwed up.”
Are you referring to the wingnut GOP election challenge that was dismissed with prejudice?
NOW he see fraud…..next will he see little green men, or the hypo in his crit….boring …..blatant shill…next….
@22
“Providing the actual residence address is intended only for the situation where the voter has CHANGED RESIDENCES.”
Sloppy work, Richard. The predecessor statute (former RCW 29.59.010) of the current voter challenge statute (RCW 29A.08.810 et seq.) made explicitly clear what the purpose of furnishing the voter’s actual address is:
“(2) The registered voter filing such challenge must furnish the address at which the challenged voter actually resides in order to assure that proper notice will be received by the challenged voter.”
See Gold Bar Citizens v. Whalen, 99 Wn.2d 724, 665 P.2d 393 (1983).
It is humorous to watch the LEFTIST PINHEADS screeching that you cannot challenge a Voter’s Regisration unless you know precisely where that person, fictitious or real, actually lives CUZ it’s the law.
Clearly, LEFTIST PINHEADS are promoting a scheme which allows out & out organized Voter Registration FRAUD!!!
The problem these voters with ILLEGAL ADDRESSES have is still real. They need to be prosecuted too, don’t you think dj???
What is the penalty for illegally registering dj????
Nothing??
Take a couple steps back here and get real.
Oh and Erik…precisely what DAMAGE was done???
I have yet to hear one PINHEAD actually come forward and say they did not vote because of the Challenge.
So where is the actual DAMAGE????
Be specific please!
Has anybody checked Sucky Politics to see if Stefan has picked up on this? After all his bloviating around fraud, we finally have evidence of real fraud in front of us. One would think the Washington blogosphere’s premier self-appointed guardian of voting integrity would be on top of this!! Has Stefan said anything — ANYTHING AT ALL — about the GOP’s use of a forged challenge form? Yoo-hoo … Stefan … anybody home??
Filmmaker Michael Moore insists that corporations are evil and claims he doesn’t invest in the stock market due to moral principle. But Moore’s IRS forms, show that over the past five years he has owned shares in such corporate giants as Halliburton, Merck, Pfizer, Sunoco, Tenet Healthcare, Ford, General Electric and McDonald’s.
New York Senate hopeful Jeanine Pirro is blasting 2008 presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton for throwing a birthday party tonight for Ku Klux Klansman-turned-Senator Robert Byrd at the home of a civil rights pioneer.
Cynical @ 49:
Where is the damage? Take your pointy little head out of that nice warm brown place you love so much, and try King County GOP headquarters. Then go beat up your mother again.
Hmmm … since Sotelo submitted the challenges on an unauthorized form, I wonder if that voids all the challenges? Maybe King County canvassing board shouldn’t even process them.
What Goldy “forgot” to tell you all is that WAC 434-324-115 states that All county auditors shall maintain a supply of, and furnish to the public on request, forms substantially similar to the sample included below for the purpose of allowing a registered voter to challenge the registration of another voter pursuant to RCW 29A.08.830.
What it does NOT state is that you must use the form provided by the auditor in order to make a challenge. You can make up any form you want that “shall be substantially similar” to the sample form provided in WAC 434-324-115. If you believe that replacing “Please describe the factual basis for the voter registration challenge:” with “The individual challenged is registered at an address that is not a “valid residence address” as required by RCW 29A.08.110(1)…” has violated the mandate that the form be “substantially similar,” by all means file a lawsuit. But it isn’t anywhere near a forgery. By your definition signing your name would also make it a forgery, because your signature is not in WAC 434-324-115; writing on the form would deface it.
@54 since Sotelo submitted the challenges on an unauthorized form
I assume you can show us the law that says you may only submit a voter registration challenge on the form that is marked “SAMPLE” in WAC 434-324-115.
Michael, the forms Sotelo signed were not “substantially similar” to the form provided by statute. It differed markedly in substance. Adding a new category of voter challenge is a substantial change. And that’s not complying with the law.
Michael @55
You probably cried out with laughter at Clintons’ “depends what the definition of is is” comment.
Re-read your comment. It’s even funnier!
You have *got* to be kidding!
Time to admit it…
@57 Replacing the “Please describe the factual basis for the voter registration challenge” block that Goldy conveniently failed to mention with the actual description is no different than putting an actual signature instead of a blank line where a signature should be.
And Goldy also conveniently failed to mention that the form described in the WAC is clearly marked as a “Sample,” like a last will and testament, you can simply write what you want done with your stuff and sign your name at the bottom if you want, there is no law saying you have to follow a specific form (you probably have to have witnesses and such for a will, but still you can free-form it if you want).
Here’s an idea: Send invitations for Jury Duty to all people having their first residence in a mailbox….that will make many change this quickly.
61
“Here’s an idea: Send invitations for Jury Duty to all people having their first residence in a mailbox….that will make many change this quickly.”
What?
Soleto needs to be tried and then jailedm for a looooong time as an example for future wingnuts attempting voter disenfranchisement.
Here is an idea… If you donks don’t want voters to be disenfranchised dont cheat. Geeeeeesh.
Air America radio host Al Franken says conservatives are racist because they lack diversity and oppose affirmative action. But fewer than 1 percent of the people he has hired over the past 15 years have been African-American.
Read the trollfuck posts in this thread. These people have no shame, no honor, no morals.
And you donks do..
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha
DAY 7—-IMPROVED TRAFFIC DUE TO GASTAX INCREASE VIGIL
I am happy to report that since the GasTax proponents got their way defeating I-912 last week that traffic this past weekend actually got worse!!!! I was in Seattle Sunday & Monday and it was gawdawful!!! I saw lots of drivers BY THEMSELVES in their politically correct little cars with their Save the Earth bumperstickers sitting in mortal gridlock on I-5 and the AWV.
I would expect the politically correct CLOWNS to set a much better example than that!!
Some of them had pro-Mass Transit and “I Love Women with Hairy Underarms” bumperstickers too!!
I love seeing the preachers of political correctness hypocritically contributing to the PROBLEM not the SOLUTION!
The GOP, party of corruption, torture, perjury, fraud and LIARS. Long live the GOP (NOT)
Cynical, I asked the same question three weeks ago. If the King County democrats who so overwhelmingly voted to kill I-912 are so concerned with road overcrowding and stopped their single occupancy car driving; the road congestion thru Seattle would be surprisingly reduced.
Ewww, democratic women with hairy armpits? Does that include Mrs. Wabbet?
Now here’s a vision. Imagine all those mind-numbed robotic King County Stepford Wives going to vote to kill I-912 with hairy armpits.
now we just need pudgybutty to chime in with his talking points.l..prriss, writeoff, mr totallyirrelevant…..come on troll brigade, give us your two cents worth…….LMAO@GWB and his idiotic TROLLS
lol, puddybutty arrives….right on cue
Urko Chimp Pa-Troll or is it Ursus Gorilla Pa-Troll? Go back three weeks and you’ll view my post regarding King County democratic drivers. I called them donkocratic drivers in my entry you jackass!
speaking of jackass’, how is your significant other you perverted fool?
Mr. C @ 66 –
Goldy –
I think you owe Mr.C a refreshment of his choice….
His cut ‘n’ paste posts of identical messages to various threads must be contributing enormously to your site’s hit stats.
CHINESE HAVE TO SPY SINCE CLINTON LEFT OFFICE
Bunches of the Godless Chinese Arrested in California for spying.
A Chinese-American engineer and two relatives who allegedly conspired to steal sensitive information about Navy warships and smuggle it to China were indicted Tuesday on federal charges, authorities said.
The grand jury indictment charges Chi Mak, 65, his wife and brother with acting as agents of a foreign government without prior notification to the U.S. Attorney General, according to the U.S. Attorney’s office.
“Re tried giving to DNC baaaaah Since Brill Crinton no wronga President, Re can’t get info we need So, We hadda Spy you know”
Joe @ above “Bunches of the Godless Chinese Arrested in California for spying.
A Chinese-American engineer and two relatives ”
So, two is bunches. What is 7?
BTW Joe… regarding the memo… uh… you are a moron.
You OK with that?
My wife is doing just fine Ursus Pa-Troll. Thanks for asking.
How is your palm and it’s five appendages doing? Or is it a blow-up doll this week? I know you like variety so it the pump on tap next week then what the week after? Being the big simian gorilla Ursus you have to keep in shape right? Did you shave your palms yet?
Hey speaking of memos, has anyone seen some good memos coming from the MSM lately. It has been a slow news week and I love good fiction.
Funny part is that they probably really pissed off some Republicans living on the boats. Rather than playing the blame game it seems high time that Sotelo and idiot Vance get shit canned. If the state party had operatives with any old fashion brains they would have vetted their own candidate and very well might have won the Sims’ position.
For those ASSes who claim I don’t have original thought or I TROLL RIGHTY web sites, shove this up your ASSes! Fresh from the Washington Post this evening: – Woodward Was Told of Plame More Than Two Years Ago
By Jim VandeHei and Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, November 16, 2005; Page A01
Washington Post Assistant Managing Editor Bob Woodward testified under oath Monday in the CIA leak case that a senior administration official told him about CIA operative Valerie Plame and her position at the agency nearly a month before her identity was disclosed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....rss_nation
Mark Corallo, a spokesman for Rove, said that Rove is not the unnamed official who told Woodward about Plame and that he did not discuss Plame with Woodward.
I can hear it now; “Damn Rove gets away again!” Awww shucks lefties, you guys played your hand too early! So one prediction true and when DeLay gets off I’ll be two for two!
Cross Posted on the other new thread!
I wonder what Rush will be crowing about on this news in the Washington Post tomorrow? Too bad I’ll be working hard during his show.
I dunno PB, isn’t the bigger story here not that Rove wasn’t the leaker to Woodward, but rather that there is even more evidence that the administration was making a concerted effort to leak Plame’s name? That shouldn’t be something to be proud of… Of course, it also doesn’t make Woodward look that great either.
81
Rush is off this week. He will be back on Monday. This is typical of the lying left who cant tell the truth if their lives depended on it.
I wonder who the adminstration official is, could it be a Clinton holdover… ummmm.
To show I am a nice guy, here is some information regarding the Sony CD Rootkit Copy Protection Scheme. If you purchased Sony CDs “Houston you have problems”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175649,00.html
Dr. E, that depends on whom was the leaker. I do want to know, eventhough she wasn’t covert. Did you read the CIA was worried that Aldrich Ames has outed her overseas in the 90s?
Also I liked the heavy handedness that Joe Wilson’s lawyers tried to do on Major General Paul Vallely when he claimed that Joe WIlson told him about his wife in 2002.
“”WorldNetDaily and I both were absolutely a little shocked on Saturday evening when we got an e-mail from Joe Wilson’s lawyers in Washington really asking us to 100 percent retract our statements that were made on the radio show,” Vallely told Fox. “I’m not gonna back down on the fact we had a casual conversation. The fact is we were there together, we didn’t agree on a lot of the things about the war, but we can agree to disagree.”
Anyone who doesn’t think that the 57,000 Florida voters that were disenfranchised illegally by the Republicans in 2000 had anything to do with Gore losing Florida vote by 500 something votes is living in a dreamworld. And to ad insult to injury the Supreme Court appointed the dumb bastard president.
We don’t have to abide by Supreme Court decisions anymore because they have proven themselves to be an x-tra legal , partisan Kangaroo court. They can decide anything they want, then they can try to it.
Pinochet is the neo-con poster boy. The prototype for the future.
THis is the neo-con legacy.
87
What about the 100,000 military ballots that were not counted in Florida? You missed that Harry.
Did US democratic leaders go to Germany?
“The new German Government is launching one of the boldest experiments ever undertaken in the history of economics — or rather anti-economics. Germany in the past three years has been the world’s most depressed economy, with the weakest growth in economic activity and consumption. The coalition partners — representing, as they do, the opposite ends of the political spectrum — found it hard to find common ground on most issues, but on one point they could emphatically and enthusiastically agree: the way to stimulate an economy suffering from mass unemployment and stagnant consumption is to increase tax.”
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8210-1871527,00.html
Or Harry did you miss that Gore lost his home state of Tennessee in 2000? They rejected him BIG TIME!
Pudster–
These CLOWNS can actually justify someone ILLEGALLY registering using as their address of residence a NONEXISTENT address. Simply amazing! The address of residence is critical as one should only be able to vote in the County or Precindt where they actually reside. THAT IS THE POINT!
I doubt these ILLEGALLY registered CLOWNS actually live in little teeny-tiny mailboxes or storage units.
The legitimate question is where do they reside???
Otherwise, the Voter Registration Form should say under Address of Residence
ANYWHERE YOU PLEASE IS FINE!! GO AHEAD AND JUST MAKE SOMETHING UP!! IF YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT ESPECIALLY GO AHEAD AND WRITE DOWN ANY ADDRESS YOU WANT!!!!!!!
Logan has been extremely negligent in cleaning up the Voter Registration roles of obvious non-existent residential addresses. Logan denies responsibility and says you must challenge….but you have to find the ILLEGALLY registered voter.
Kind of like WHERE’S WALDO??
Reply to 56
“What it does NOT state is that you must use the form provided by the auditor in order to make a challenge.”
Oh yeah?
“WAC 434-324-115 Challenge of voter’s registration. All county auditors shall maintain a supply of, and furnish to the public on request, forms substantially similar to the sample included below for the purpose of allowing a registered voter to challenge the registration of another voter pursuant to RCW 29A.08.830. A copy of the form shall be sent to the voter, whose voter registration has been challenged and to the challenger pursuant to RCW 29A.08.840. The form shall be substantially similar to the following:”
Read this part again, carefully:
“All county auditors shall … furnish to the public on request, forms …. A copy of THE form …” (emphasis added)
THE form. Not “a” form, or any form, but “the” form as in THE form … “the form” refers to the “forms” referenced in the previous sentence which county auditors are to furnish to the public. Absolutely nothing in either the statute or the WAC rule says, implies, or even hints that the public can make up their own “substantially similar” forms. You are REQUIRED to use a form furnished by the county auditor.
@72
Did they keep jackasses at that GOOP funny farm in Enumclaw? I knew about the horses …
@68
“If the King County democrats who so overwhelmingly voted to kill I-912 are so concerned with road overcrowding and stopped their single occupancy car driving; the road congestion thru Seattle would be surprisingly reduced.”
B U L L S H I T
@74
“Re tried giving to DNC baaaaah Since Brill Crinton no wronga President, Re can’t get info we need So, We hadda Spy you know”
Just what HorsesAss needs — another racist wingfuck troll.
@77
Puttybutt — can you explain to me how those sex toys work? Republicans are the experts on these things …
Putty fer Brains @80
Not sure I get your point, Puttybutt. I don’t see how Woodward’s testimony helps the Bushies. Since you don’t seem to understand, I’ll spell it out for you. An unnamed “senior administration official” was shopping Plame’s identity to the most prominent political reporter in D.C. a month before Novak outed her. That certainly makes it look like the administration wanted Plame’s status as a CIA agent revealed in the media, doesn’t it? And “senior administration official” doesn’t rule out Rove — but it does mean someone in a high position, not a flunky or minor underling. It’s damning, if you ask me.
@82
“it also doesn’t make Woodward look that great either”
It makes Woodward look like a reporter with more ethics than Novak.
Doofus @84
“could it be a Clinton holdover”
Only Doofus is uniquely stupid enough to think any Clinton holdovers were still around when Plame’s name was leaked.
@86
“eventhough she wasn’t covert”
B U L L S H I T
Plame’s outing destroyed a covert operation that took 20 years to build, and compromised dozens of agents.
Puddybutt = apologist for treason
Rabbit @ 48
Thanks for the statutory history and the case law providing some interpretation and context.
The main issues here with the address requirement seems to be due process (i.e. making sure the challenged voter gets reasonable notice) and proof (i.e. showing that the challenged voter has changed residences).
Obviously, this address requirement is not intended for the situation where 500 soldiers from the “Democratic” People’s Republic of Korea register to vote with Goldy’s address as their “residence” and an army unit in Pyongyang as their mailing address. Or if 500 members of the Unification Church register with my address as their “residence” and a Moonie church in Seoul as their mailing address.
Nor would it apply if non-existent people such as Mickey Mouse, Felix The Cat, or Roger Rabbit register to vote.
Nor should it apply if people register to vote using a “residence” address where they clearly do not and cannot live, such as a private mail box.
@87
As a lawyer, I am bound by my attorney’s oath to respect Supreme Court decisions as the supreme law of the land, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. That’s the way it is.
Wabbit @ 92
NOTHING in WAC 434-324-115 says that the CHALLENGER must use the form supplied by the county auditor.
WAC 434-324-115 requires the county auditor to “maintain a supply of, and furnish to the public on request, forms substantially similar to the sample”.
If a challenge is filed, WAC 434-324-115 further requires the county auditor to send a copy of this form “to the voter, whose voter registration has been challenged and to the challenger”.
If the challenger uses the form supplied by the county auditor, then WAC 434-324-115 is satisfied by the county auditor mailing a completed copy of the form to both the challenged voter and the challenger.
On the other hand, if the challenger does not use the form supplied by the county auditor, then WAC 434-324-115 would require the county auditor to mail a copy of the blank form supplied by the county auditor to both the challenged voter and the challenger. (Presumably the RCW and due process would also require that the challenged voter be mailed a copy of whatever non-standard challenge form was completed by the challenger.)
Presumably, Dean Logan screwed up by only mailing out copies of the non-standard challenge forms filed by Lori Sotelo, and failing to also mail out blank copies of the standard challenge forms that his office supplies.
Doofus @ 88
“What about the 100,000 military ballots that were not counted in Florida?”
B U L L S H I T
“Meanwhile, the controversy over military absentee ballots is growing. More than 1500 were thrown out for irregularities. Many of those did not have a postmark. Yesterday Democratic Attorney General Bob Butterworth, in a letter to the state’s 67 county election officials said those ballots should count.”
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb.....11-21.html
“BLITZER: Well, getting every vote counted brings me to the point that a lot of U.S. military personnel … their votes were not counted. The Associated Press says, 2,200 or so overseas absentee ballots were counted, 1,400 were discarded, many from U.S. military personnel, for technical reasons; postmarks were not used. Shouldn’t those military overseas absentee ballots, all of them be counted, even if there were some technical problems?
“LIEBERMAN: Well, I think the benefit of the doubt has to be given to every voter here, who went to the trouble either to go to the polls … or to send in an absentee ballot …. My understanding is that these decisions on the absentee ballots were made by the local election officials. A lot of them, maybe most of them, in Florida, are Republicans …. But again, Al Gore and I want everybody who voted to have the maximum chance to have their vote counted. We would never countenance or approve or tolerate a policy that in any measure discriminated against our military personnel abroad when they try to vote.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA.....le.00.html
“A New York Times investigation into overseas ballots that helped George W. Bush win the presidency found that Florida election officials, facing intense GOP pressure to accept military votes, counted hundreds of overseas absentee ballots that failed to comply with state election laws. … The newspaper’s six-month examination of the 2,490 overseas ballots accepted after Election Day found 680 questionable votes.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....allots.htm
Not only has 1,500 disputed ballots grown to 100,000 in Doofus’ overheated imagination, but he also overlooks the fact the Democratic candidates (Gore and Lieberman) pushed for counting questionable military ballots, and the fact Bush’s winning margin came from votes that were counted, but were not entitled to be counted under Florida law.
Puttybrains @91
“Gore lost his home state of Tennessee in 2000? They rejected him BIG TIME!”
B U L L S H I T
Bush – 1,056,480 (51%)
Gore – 977,789 (48%)
Richard @103
Are the Republicans alleging that 500 soldiers from the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea registered to vote at Goldy’s address? Are they alleging that 500 members of the Unification Church registered at your address? Did they come up with any voter registrations for Mickey Mouse, Felix The Cat, or Roger Rabbit?
@105
“NOTHING in WAC 434-324-115 says that the CHALLENGER must use the form supplied by the county auditor.”
I don’t agree with you. That’s a question of statutory construction that I’d be happy to submit to a Republican judge in a Republican county of your choice.
Wabbit @ 109
Where in the RCW does it say that the challenger must use the form supplied by the county auditor?
RCW 29.08.830(1) (in part) simply says: “The challenger shall file with the county auditor a signed affidavit subject to the penalties of perjury, to the effect that to his or her personal knowledge and belief another registered voter does not actually reside at the address as given on his or her registration record or is otherwise not a qualified voter and that the voter in question is not protected by the provisions of Article VI, section 4, of the Constitution of the state of Washington.”
Well, the GOP challenge list was prepared in a VERY SLOPPY MANNER. Here is why several dozen voters at 320 Cedar Street in Seattle (the Watermarke Apartments, where the Seattle P-I did its story with a photo) were challenged:
“One example: Republicans challenged, then withdrew, the registrations of 46 voters at the Watermarke apartments at 320 Cedar Street in Seattle’s Belltown. There’s a storage complex at 320 Cedar Avenue in Forks, Clallam County.”
!Q?@?#?W?@EQ@!!!!
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....es16m.html
Josef? Josef???
(crickets)
P.S…isn’t it pathetic, I mean absolutely fucking pathetic, how right wing retards try to flood threads with made up shit that has nothing to do with the topic at hand? It’s hilarious. Joe (Stalin?), I’m talking about you, buttmunch.
Roger Rabbit @ 100 Only Doofus is uniquely stupid enough to think any Clinton holdovers were still around when Plame’s name was leaked.
4 words for you: George “Slam Dunk” Tenet
Rupert, apparently your visit to Drinking Liberally was so liberal you lost your ability to comprehend. The WaPO article said it WAS NOT ROVE silly wabbet. And now that Mjr. Gen. Vallely has come forth as said he will testify that Joe Wilson outed his wife in fall 2002, where does that put your argument? In the bullshit pile like many of your other statements like the one on malpractice insurance costs – BULLSHIT! Like the one on inflation rate – BULLSHIT!
In the words of Austin Powers “Yeah Baby”, Rove is NOT the leaker! One prediction true and the other soon to be true!
I read some of the Fox News Sunday transcript of Jay Rockefeller. Did he go to Syria and tell them we’re going to invade Iraq? Isn’t that illegal? Another big mouth donkocrat like Pat “Leaking State Secrets” Leahy?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175433,00.html
Dr. William Bennett’s take!http://www.nationalreview.com/.....141541.asp
http://www.weeklystandard.com/.....7wlqji.asp
Where is the Congressional Donkocrats calling for his head if he broke The Logan Act?
Rupert Wabbet –
Apologist for US Government secrets leakers!
Apologist for Pregnant Chad Counting!
Apologist for Human Fetus killers; over 6 Million and counting! Probably cost Gore and Kerry the election if those dead donk babies were birthed!
DJ maybe I will start my own blog. I’ll have a picture of a Wabbet, I haven’t decided what color yet, with an ever increasing counter of abortions performed!
I’m waiting for Karma Clueless to call me Freep Koresh because I posted more of the Plame truths. Now that Woodward has admitted Rove ain’t the leaker, watch for the clueless bile to appear on a computer screen soon near you! It should be within the two hours. 5:44 AM
@101: The CIA said they were afraid Aldrich Ames outed her in the 1990s so they brought her in. Do you read Wabbet or are you just a lawn dart on Stefan’s fine lawn?
The Rupert Wabbet arguments at times reminds me of a court conversation I read once:
ATTORNEY: Now doctor, isn’t it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he doesn’t know about it until the next morning?
WITNESS: Did you actually pass the bar exam?
Sums up some of the BULLSHIT Rupert likes to spew here on ASSes!
Funny, my NY Times web subscription has no mention of the Woodward story in it’s headlines. It’s a small byline link on the Washington page. Shame NY Times, shame! Thank goodness for my WA Post subscription!
Let’s get down to brass tacks. Let’s compare Argentina’s economy with Venezuela’s. Let’s compare Allende’s Chile with Pinichet’s. The first thing righties need to know about Pinochet’s Chile is that the economy was run from start to finish by actual students of Milton Freidman’s and Leo Strauss. What happened in Chile from the assassination of Allende to the banishment of Pinochet was ALL neo-con stuff. It is the FAILED laboratory of neo-conservatism.
Argentina is the failed model of “free trade.” Let’s avoid cant and rhetoric and stick to the numbers. I’m betting I’ll win—-hands down— because cash talks and bullshit walks.
New information on this today. MORE of the cowardly GOP idiots’ challenges have been withdrawn and the PI is quoting one of the victims of the GOP attack on freedom was quoted as saying “I want that woman in jail.”
We need to start putting pressure on the prosecutor’s office to charge this traitor.
Another great quote in this story is “They aren’t making many friends.” Obviously, the traitors at Vance HQ didn’t see this coming – it backfired big time, i.e., the utter defeat of almost every republican in Washington last week.
We don’t have to abide by Supreme Court decisions anymore because they have proven themselves to be an x-tra legal , partisan Kangaroo court. They can decide anything they want, then they can try to it.
Comment by Harry Poon— 11/15/05 @ 9:54 pm
Harry Poon cute name; Thw Wabbit has a great point “As a lawyer, I am bound by my attorney’s oath to respect Supreme Court decisions as the supreme law of the land, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. That’s the way it is.
Comment by Roger Rabbit— 11/15/05 @ 11:45 pm” and he isn’t the only one who has to live by an oath.
prr @1
AGREED.
and now ButtPuddy’s spiritual leader, S Sharanski @ uSP feelby burps this morning:
I just realized that I’ve made a grevious error. In analyzing the statutes more closely, it is now quite clear to me that registrations using mailbox addresses are in many cases permitted under the law.
Oops, my bad!
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at November 16, 2005 06:28 AM
not like it is the first time you have made a ‘grevious error’! Lets go back and dig out your infamous Spread Eagled Sheets……
So who hacked SP?
Ursus Gorilla Pa-Troll: I haven’t met Stefan Sharkansky. But maybe I will someday. I hope Lawn Dart is there leaving behind little lawn dart fertilization residue. We’ll use the dangerous dog trapping method.
Looks like New Orleans is back to itself again:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/.....KI682.html
re 104: Before slavery was delared unconstitutional many lawyers and lawmakers entirely disregarded Supreme Court decisions regarding slavery. Also, the Nuremburg trials after WWII established the principle that matters of ultimate right vs wrong take precedence over any decisions made by man made assemblies and government apparatus.
Roger, you may be sworn to uphold the decisions of the Supreme Court as the law of the land, but legal precedent, as declared by our own government, does not require you to do so.
There is a higher court of coscience that we can appeal to and there is legal and moral precedent for doing so.
Stefan has some great photos on the site today…
Shots of dwarf voters….living in their 2″ x 2″ mailboxes.
Gee, you lefties ought to ponder rent control, anti discrimination laws, etc, for all Mailboxes etc…
ouch, that one really hurts…
headless lucy-129 ‘There is a higher court of coscience that we can appeal to and there is legal and moral precedent for doing so.’
What a surprise – an open mind towards all items constitutional. Maybe the days of abortion are numbered…..
Richard @ 109
I think we’re going in circles, Richard. WAC 434-324-115 says a challenger “shall” send a copy of “the” form (i.e., the county auditor’s form) to the challenged voter. There’s no leeway there, Richard, either in sending the form, or in using the specified (i.e., county auditor’s) form. The law says what it says, and the law includes both RCW and WAC. Game it all you want on this board, but at the end of the day, it’s how a court interprets it, not how you choose to spin it, that matters.
Richard @111
That’s why you don’t send amateurs to do a professional’s job.
@113
Tenet was reappointed by Bush, beanbrain, which makes him Bush’s appointee. Are you trying to be as stupid as Doofus, or were you born that way?
Putty Butt @116
Hey wingwhack — Pop Quiz: How many times have I posted on HorsesAss that I personally oppose abortion on moral and religious grounds?
Anyone out there want to help Puttybrains out on this? It’s apparently too complicated for his only brain cell to comprehend.
@129
Slippery slope, headless. We’re either gonna have the rule of law, or not. If you opt for rule of law, you work from within the system to change the laws you believe are wrong. If everyone picks and chooses which laws to abide, you get a free-for-all. Which is it gonna be?
@130
Is that a mailbox in Lynnwood that Stefan rented for registering his wheels to dodge the monorail tax?
I see Puddy “Freep” Koresh has gone on another whacked-out bloggorhrea binge pulling more sh*t out of his ass.
How’s that Able Danger bullsh*t goin’ PFK? How’s “the wall”? Why’s Rummy standing in the way of the “truth”? You and ID(IOT)GAF were hanging a lot on that one. Shall we stack your latest spew next to those chestnuts?
Here’s a thoughtful post about religion and politics for folks to chew on seeming as it comes up around here so often.
136
Might be where lots of Seattle folks, especially democrats, registered to avoid the tax (what was that tax for, and when do you send these folks a refund?)
Wednesday, Nov. 16, 2005 12:15 p.m. EST
New Documents Reveal Saddam Hid WMDs, Was Tied to Al Qaida
Recently discovered Iraqi documents now being translated by U.S. intelligence analysts indicate that Saddam Hussein’s government made extensive plans to hide Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction before the U.S. invasion in March 2003 – and had deep ties to al Qaida before the 9/11 attacks. [Errrrr….This looks like Bush was right!!! [hehe]]
re 131: …as are the days of personhood and 14th amendment constitutional rights of bundles of legal and financial papers.
Roger Rabbit @ 132 WAC 434-324-115 says a challenger “shall” send a copy of “the” form (i.e., the county auditor’s form) to the challenged voter.
It says no such thing. It says “A copy of the form shall be sent to the voter, whose voter registration has been challenged and to the challenger pursuant to RCW 29A.08.840.” The challenger doesn’t send anything to the challenged voter. The auditor does that.
Puddy – welcher – bud:
When you gonna pay up? You welcher!!
How’s that ‘Able Danger’ thing working for you guys?
Have you read Scooter’s book yet? I bet you have. Is forcing a 10 year old girl into a cage to be raped by a bear the righties brand of “Christian values?”
Perhaps O’Reilly’s book where two 15 year old girls who addicted to crack and have to give oral sex to a disgusting drug dealer on a “faux leather couch” no less, more in line with conservative family values?
Then there’s Lynne Cheney’s book – “Sister, sister” need I say more?
Geeez, you guys on the right are truly warped.
re 135: Everything done in Nazi Germany was legal. I’m pretty good at navigating slippery slopes, but I’m not good at doing something that I know is wrong because Samuel Alito and Antonin Scalia tell me it is.
The LEFTIST PINHEADS have failed to address how KingCo could possibly have accepted ILLEGAL REGISTRATIONS (where the Residence Address was NOT a residence cuz it’s a mailbox or storage unit address) in the first place!!!
Who approved each of these illegal voter registrations????
What the CLOWNS are saying is anyone, from anywhere, can register to vote…use a non-residence address in clear violation of the law and that KingCo Elections has zero responsibility to review voter registrations.
What would prevent 100,000 good old boy Texans from registering up here and all use the same mailbox as their residence???
If KingCo merely accepts each registration at face value and processes without review…how could they stop this???
Inquiring minds would like to know..
dj….what says you?
What would stop 100,000 folks from using the same mailbox as a residence address??
Hey Wabbet: You did indeed say you are personally against abortion. But unlike you, I don’t support apologists who do SUPPORT abortion. Therefore you do and you are an apologist to those whom supports abortion and it’s policies! So my brain cell is fully functional!
Karma Clueless: Late night at the Liberally Drinking event? Keeping donk hours while working people get up early and work hard? Yes I pulled that Washington POST article out of my ass when I have it received on the web. Damn clueless, not only do you live up to your karma but you prove once again God is perfect and right. You couldn’t buy a clue if:
1.) The money was given to you
2.) Someone whispered the answer into your ear
3.) The answer was in big letters on cue cards.
Regarding Able Danger – Louis Freeh mentioned it as being a viable investigation on TV. Arlen Spector has buried the investigation. Regarding the Wall, we should put that around you. Rummy? I have no control over him.
Mr. Cynical Irrelevant Clown:
It’s ok if the R’s want to call KCREALS on its sloppy work – just don’t disenfranchise legitimate voters in the process.
Far as I can see, nobody tried to stuff the ballot box. It was all just honest mistakes – and of course the whole snipe hunt was rigged – noone’s looked at “honest mistakes” made in Republican parts of KC.
During the 2004 debacle, KCREALS had 43 full-time equivalent employees for Records, Elections and Licensing. Now they have around 60. It’d be nice if KCREALS was all in one building rather than scattered in 4 places – maybe we’ll get that next go around.
I see things only improving but that doesn’t mean both the D’s and the R’s shouldn’t keep up the pressure to make things better.
However, I’m sure we can all depend on you Cynical Irrelevant Clown to spin things as per the bidding of your masters at the BIAW.
@ 143
Well, well it’s PFK. I comment to imbue clue to losers like you who:
1) lost on the election contest
2) lost on I-912, the “message-sending” excersise. Indeed the message got garbled at the polls!
3) lost by continuing to put up losers like Craswell, Carlson, Nethercutt and Irons.
3) losing on their support of Dubya who’s at 30 in the polls and is too dumb to keep his yap shut on Taiwan.
4) losing on their tacit support of traitors who endanger national security by outing CIA agents.
Amongs dozens of other things!
Keep on freepin’ and losing Puddy… You’re not fooling anyone with your rants and namecalling.
@145 outing CIA agents.
Outing CIA agents=bad, outing clandestine CIA facilities=good?
@146 I’m not up on the talking points… help me out here?
CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01644.html
This is from a leak of classified information. It is obvious that the liberals who feigned interest when they think a Republican might have leaked something classified have no interest in the leaker of this case.
Hey clueless jackass: YOu go back to old mooron.org standard talking points and I bring up Bob Woodward and Paul Vallely; TODAY’S NEWS!!!!
When did I do these things?
1) lost on the election contest – Not me!
2) lost on I-912, the “message-sending” excersise. Indeed the message got garbled at the polls! – No, the overpromises and lies from your side will NEVER materialize and force elevated taxes.
3) lost by continuing to put up losers like Craswell, Carlson, Nethercutt and Irons. – Only in King County, land of librals!
3) losing on their support of Dubya who’s at 30 in the polls and is too dumb to keep his yap shut on Taiwan. – I agree the Republicans have not done their messaging right. Dick Morris is right on his commentary.
4) losing on their tacit support of traitors who endanger national security by outing CIA agents. – Traitors? I just love your reach and definitions. I think you, clueless should go after Robert Novak. Please start legal proceedings against him. Use Rupert Wabbet as your barrister! If he never opened his mouth this would have never happened. Looks like now someone else is deep throat and not Rove. Awww, too bad clueless, the architect ( remember The Matrix?) is still in!!
148
Its funny how people don’t mind the revelation of secret torture prisons, but do mind the outing of an operative doing important work for political gain.
yeesh
@148
Liberals don’t believe the government has any right to hide from the public the fact it’s running torture prisons. What the government does is our business.
Hey Pud-diddy…
The Space Flights were all fake.
http://www.geocities.com/apolloreality/
Check it out.
windie-150 ‘…but do mind the outing of an operative doing important work for political gain.’
The fact that Plame was doing something for Kerry’s political gain is irrelevant, although interesting.
headless lucy-141 ‘…but I’m not good at doing something that I know is wrong because Samuel Alito and Antonin Scalia tell me it is.’
Now replace the names with Blackmun and Burger, etc., and you can begin to understand pro-life. Welcome to the real world!
Blackmun and Berger EXPANDED rights not eliminated them asshat.
Roger Rabbit-134 ‘Pop Quiz: How many times have I posted on HorsesAss that I personally oppose abortion on moral and religious grounds?’
Many times. Yet it is still not clear why the wabbit opposes abortion, or how strong the opposition is. Does wabbit think the unborn child is a person with rights equivalent to any other child? Is the wabbit’s opposition relatively mild or similar to an opposition to, say, air polution? Does opposition to David Irons warrant greater advocacy than opposition to abortion?
Besides…it’s “pro-birth” not “pro-life.”
rujax206-158 ‘Blackmun and Berger EXPANDED rights not eliminated them..’
In Roe they dimissed the potential personhood of the unborn with an effective “I dunno”, which REMOVED basic human rights from millions of children since then. Increasing so-called “rights” for one group at the expense of another, more plentiful group is not expanding rights in general.
The topic was actually related to whether a SCOTUS decision of law must be followed if it is not morally right. I agree that there needs to be the rule of law, yet welcome agreement that many laws are morally wrong and should be changed. Perfect example – laws that made slavery “constitutional”.
rujax206-160 ‘Besides…it’s “pro-birth” not “pro-life.” ‘
If the goal is to stop killing people before or after birth the correct term is pro-life. Pro-life is actually against euthanasia and the death penalty as well.
It is too bad the current thread does not fit any of the lefty talking points.
@155
I had no idea the lunar landing was fake. Amazing.
Well YOU brought it up asshole…I’d have a more respect for the so-called “pro-lifers” if they really gave a shit about what happens AFTER the birth.
TT-
I’m sure Pud-Diddy can spin some more tinfoil for ya’.
Right down his alley you know. (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)
Wait wait wait, doesn’t everyone know that you rig elections through gerrymandering and electronic tampering? Sheesh, come on guys.
rujax206-164
‘Well YOU brought it up..’
You jumped in with a completely irrelevant comment to my response to headless.
‘I’d have a more respect for the so-called “pro-lifers” if they really gave a shit about what happens AFTER the birth.’
Good diversion. Who cares whether you have respect for anyone supporting any issue, and is that supposed to change the core arguments? The implication that life after birth has anything to do with the right-or-wrong aspects of abortion is insulting to anyone beyond the third grade.
Liberals don’t believe the government has any right to hide from the public the fact it’s running torture prisons. What the government does is our business.
I guess that would depend on what the meaning of torture is. Of course before that we must define what is “is”
Yeah right you moronic hypocrite.
Liberal Progressives: The Dumpster divers of politics!!!
re 135: Everything done in Nazi Germany was legal. I’m pretty good at navigating slippery slopes, but I’m not good at doing something that I know is wrong because Samuel Alito and Antonin Scalia tell me it is.
Comment by headless lucy— 11/16/05 @ 12:04 pm
Headless Lucy but would do anything for M Moore or move on dot org?
The idea of a challenge is that some go for and some go against. Soleto made her best effort, no harm no foul.
@154 Liberals don’t believe the government has any right to hide from the public the fact it’s running torture prisons. What the government does is our business.
Then how is whatever it was that Plame claims that she was doing undercover not our business?
@159
“Does wabbit think the unborn child is a person with rights equivalent to any other child?”
Yes. Roger Rabbit thinks one of government’s highest duties is to protect society’s most vulnerable citizens, and unborn children certainly fit into this category. A fertilized egg, however, is not a child. Don’t ask me to tell you when a cell mass becomes a “child;” the Supreme Court couldn’t figure it out, and neither can I. Certainly at the point where it is a separate and sentient being, and I feel certain that occurs before the moment of birth.
However, Roger Rabbit is a pragmatist. Alcohol killed the best friend RR ever had, but RR doesn’t support prohibition, because our nation’s experiment with prohibition was a miserable failure. Human nature being as it is, RR doesn’t think prohibition works in the case of abortion, either. You have to raise your own children with the values you believe in, and you have to try to change the culture so people won’t want abortions, or won’t see abortion as a solution to the problem they’re trying to solve. That’s how you get rid of abortion. Laws can’t do it, just as laws couldn’t rid us of the harm inflicted by alcohol.
There is also a component of personal freedom in RR’s thinking on the topic of abortion. Roger Rabbit is not God. Roger Rabbit is a lowly 8 7/8-lb. rabbit. Some people have different religious or moral beliefs than RR, and it is not up to RR to shove his beliefs down the throats of you humans. If you humans can’t straighten out your religious and moral thinking, a lowly 8 7/8-lb. rabbit sure as hell can’t do it for you. If you get an abortion and God sends you to Hell for it, that’s your problem! And don’t say Roger Rabbit didn’t warn you!!!
The beautiful thing about Jesus, though, is that he promised God will forgive us NO MATTER WHAT WE’VE DONE. All we have to do to earn this grace is simply believe that Jesus is our Savior! So, even if you get an abortion, you won’t go to Hell if you believe in Christ and ask for forgiveness of your sins! What a beautiful thing! And to think the wingbat fascist trollfucks took a lovely religion and fucked it up and twisted it into a rationalization for war, torture, and killing people! Makes me want to puke … ugh … (barfing noises) … what’s really nauseating is the idea that God may even forgive these evil Republicans for all their shit in this life, if they believe in Jesus hard enough. Well, I don’t make the rules, and it’s not my place to tell God what to do. I’m just a lowly 8 7/8-lb. rabbit. I’m glad my mother didn’t abort me, because I like eating Stefan’s garden and shitting on his lawn, and I would’ve missed out on that. Next time you’re thinking about getting an abortion, think about all the pretty sunsets and playing in the snow and laughter &c. your kid is gonna miss out on if you go ahead with that abortion. But I’m just a lowly 8 7/8-lb. bunny and I can’t tell you what to do.
Another problem with the wingfuck idea of cramming their religious and moral beliefs down other humans’ throats is that it won’t work. Women will be killed in large numbers by dirty, dangerous, illegal abortions. That’s what you guys had before Roe v. Wade. Law enforcement and taxpayer resources will be tied up trying to enforce something that’s unenforceable. Legislatures will spend all their time arguing over abortion bills and nothing else will get done. You guys are barking up the wrong tree. You should become liberals and work for a society in which no one will be so desperate they feel forced to get an abortion, and every there will be a place and a welcome for every child who is born. No more unwanted children. That’s how you can get rid of abortion.
“Is the wabbit’s opposition relatively mild or similar to an opposition to, say, air polution?”
Roger Rabbit is a pragmatist. Long-term human survival depends on managing the planet’s environment and resources in a sustainable manner. On the other hand, we don’t want short-term pollution control measures to choke off the economy. A balance is necessary, and this balance seems to maximize environmental benefits and minimize adverse economic impacts at the point where government requires industry to use the best pollution control technology and management techniques available at a feasible cost. Businesses won’t do anything on their own because they have no internal incentives to invest in pollution reduction; every cent spent on this endeavor detracts from the bottom line. But not regulatingun pollution allows businesses to shift part of the real cost of production to citizens whose health is damaged by pollution, and to the future economy by damaging the planet’s ability to support a human population. Long-term, our best hope for a sustainable environment and economy is invention and innovation that eliminates or reduces pollution, or provides us with better and/or more cost effective pollution control techniques.
It is not meaningful to discuss an issue like air pollution in such terms as “is your opposition [to air pollution] mild.” The world has many problems that warrant serious attention and effort: War, hunger, disease, population growth, etc. As a practical matter, no single bunny or human can work on all of these problems at once; a division of labor is required. Roger Rabbit does not know anything about public health, biochemistry, physiology, etc., therefore RR is not working on preventing or curing any of the legion of diseases afflicting mankind and bunnyhood. Roger Rabbit’s role in society involves the creation, maintenance, and functioning of laws governing society. Without rules, society can’t exist. Then none of the other things — business, production, curing diseases, feeding our population, etc. — are possible. RR is a specialist in putting together the Tinker Toy parts that comprise a functioning society. Some of you humans are doctors, research scientists, engineers, etc. There’s a small part for each of us to play, and when we pool our talents and efforts toward common goals, millions of us working together can solve big problems and create a civilization capable of supporting hundreds of millions or billions of human beings. Rabbits don’t need this kind of support system. All we need is grass and a place to shit. If there were no humans around, driving cars too fast and running over bunnies, there would be hundreds of billions of bunnies in no time. We bunnies can make more bunnies faster than you can say “boo!” and we don’t need a civilization in order to do it. Without a civilization and government and laws and all that shit, you humans wouldn’t last more than a couple million years. Bunnies forever!!! :D
“Does opposition to David Irons warrant greater advocacy than opposition to abortion?”
Who gives a bunny fuck about David Irons? I didn’t campaign for or against him. I had more important things to do, like fucking cute fluffy female bunnies ten at a time. It takes me only 5 seconds to make 5 more bunnies, and there are 24 hours in each day!!! That’s potentially 86,400 new bunnies a day!!! (Except I gotta sleep, eat, and shit sometime …) I can make new bunnies faster than you can kill them with your speeding cars, so you might as well give it up!!! Bunnies forever!!!
@161
“In Roe they dimissed the potential personhood of the unborn with an effective “I dunno”, which REMOVED basic human rights from millions of children since then.”
Yeah, I’m troubled by that.
@1161
What I don’t understand is why you’re not troubled by American troops arresting innocent Iraqi civilians, beating the shit out of them, raping them, and killing them. Your alleged morality seems a bit too conveniently selective. You’re either in favor of human life and human rights, or you don’t give a shit, and except for abortion, you rightys don’t seem to give a shit.
@1173
This is exactly the comeback I expected from you, being the shallow retard you are.
Even an idiot can figure out that government has to keep some things secret — military plans, identities of spies, etc.
Rightwingers think government has a right to keep the fact it’s torturing innocent people secret, and that anyone who tells the public what their government is doing is an enemy of the state. This proves that rightwingers are morally deficient. Of course, lots of other things rightwingers think, say, and do also prove they’re morally deficient.
The best answer I can think of to your argument is, FUCK YOU!!! We, the people, own this government — not the other way around. We are the boss, and the president and defense secretary and CIA chief are our employees. We tell them what to do, not vice versa. They have NO FUCKING RIGHT to do something like that behind our back. If we authorize them to do it, that’s one thing. But nobody authorized them to do it. It’s against U.S. law, and it’s against numerous international treaties our government has signed. When they do it on the sneak, that’s the same thing as a Home Depot employee stealing tools or banging the cashier in the john on company time when they’re both supposed to be working. I didn’t pay taxes for Clinton’s salary so he could spend his work time getting blown under the desk by the female help, and I’ve stated previously on this blog that if I had been a U.S. Senator voting on his impeachment, I would have fired him from his job for that. Well, nobody authorized Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and those guys to invade a foreign country, round up its citizens, and torture them. They did it on the sneak, and they oughta get canned for it.
@170
“Liberal Progressives: The Dumpster divers of politics!!!”]
Bold talk from someone who supports war, killing, torture, profligate government spending and deficits, low wages, sending jobs to foreign countries, taking food from the poor to give money to the rich, etc. Assholes like you swim in the sewer of politics and think the stench you create is normal.
Roger Rabbit-176 ‘You’re either in favor of human life and human rights..’
Wabbit uses black-or-white logic for terrible treatment of a few dozen likely terrorists who have killed or would like to kill US forces, then for what has become 30 million dead children on US soil the need is less urgent:
‘As a practical matter, no single bunny or human can work on all of these problems at once; a division of labor is required.’
Talk about selective morality.
Karma Clueless: Here is a good Able Danger read for you. http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007559
yearight @ 177 “30 million dead children on US soil the need is less urgent”
Holy Crap! This is big news! Tell me more about these millions of dead children!
Or, perhaps you are just being a typical rightwing dipshit and lying.
Micheal @ 151
what’s striking is how quiet the GOP got when Senator Lott accused one of his own for being the leaker…
Donnageddon-179 ‘Tell me more about these millions of dead children!’
The comment was to the wabbit, who agrees that the unborn children MAY be real persons. To anyone who agrees, the millions of abortions before and since Roe equate to dead children.
If you do not think 30+ million children have been killed in the US over the last 30 years, that is your problem.
yearight, just a word to the wise: you post your drivel to a blog it becomes fair game to all.
And when a person is deranged enough to figure that a conmerationg of cells equals a child, and that a woman has no right to control her own body… well then you are a target of derision and ridicule.
Grow up asshole.
commeration should be read as conglomeration
I apologise for any confusion.
Donnageddon-185 ‘I apologise for any confusion.’
Not a problem. It just goes with the territory on the left.
‘..that a woman has no right to control her own body..’
Every man and women should be able to control their own body. If it impedes on the rights of others, however, the rights must be balanced or erring should be to the higher right.
‘..to figure that a conmerationg of cells equals a child,..’
With your logic you should have no problem if the law moves the line for personhood to between the ages of 5 and 65. Then the culling of children and elderly drains on society can become more efficient. You and Hitler…..