READER COMMENTS ON
"BREAKING: NON-PARTISAN GAO REPORT CONFIRMS CONCERNS ABOUT SECURITY OF ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES!"
(127 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 10/20/2005 @ 7:25 pm PT...
We still haven't heard from those trolls who told us they were enthusiastically buying Diebold stock "on the dip" when it was selling around $45.
If they haven't bailed out by now, I'm afriad it might be too late given this news. Tsk tsk.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
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TLV
said on 10/20/2005 @ 7:25 pm PT...
I have been woking my butt off to spread the word about the "backdoor" and have received only a trickle of responses from our legislators, election board, newpapers, etc.. Let's hope this investigation leads to real changes. Thanks for all you do to get the word out about the corruption and criminality in America today.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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colleenmilitarymom
said on 10/20/2005 @ 7:27 pm PT...
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/20/2005 @ 8:57 pm PT...
Oh very interesting....
This may just force them to close Diebold down and start liquidating all the assets.....
The "report" better not be a whitewash, and better talk about how insecure these machines are and how many times they've been hacked.
Doug
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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MarleenMmom
said on 10/20/2005 @ 9:00 pm PT...
Finally! What a great birthday week this has been!
Now if we could just get someone in Congress to do something about it... NOW before Nov8.
Thanks for all the hard work you do to keep this issue in the hot seat.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
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jIMcIRILE
said on 10/20/2005 @ 9:22 pm PT...
Is it just me, or does it feel like we are making some serious traction here? Is it too much to think we've actually turned the corner and have the bad guys on the run?
Paging President Gore...
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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Jeff
said on 10/20/2005 @ 10:05 pm PT...
This is indeed good times...with [POTENTIAL FOR]
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
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Blue Shark
said on 10/20/2005 @ 10:14 pm PT...
When the Heck is Arnebeck's response to the Limp-Dick DNC Report that is now two months overdue expected?...Anybody?
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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bb
said on 10/21/2005 @ 2:41 am PT...
Of course, September 11, now, thats completely different. We should trust everything they tell us about that.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/21/2005 @ 3:06 am PT...
We trust in NOTHING they say at all ever....A guy named Chertoff was in charge of the first 9-11 whitewash reports and documents.
This is a non-partisan government subsidiary....time will tell.
Doug E.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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Floridiot
said on 10/21/2005 @ 3:48 am PT...
If this "non partisan" group says anything about "voter"
fraud, it will be a waste of time, again to confuse the issue (hope their is no DLCers on the panel either)
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 10/21/2005 @ 5:48 am PT...
Yes, Jim. We've turned the corner. Bush is in the '30s in the polls, individual states are banning Diebold's machines, DeLay has been indicted and booked, White House insiders are turning state's evidence against Libby and Rove (and Bolton?), the media have finally figured out that Scottie-boy McClellan speaks with a forked tongue, and now, when the White House stages one of these phony Q&A sessions, the media focus isn't on the Qs&As, it's on the fact that the whole thing has been staged.
In other words...the shit has hit the fan.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 10/21/2005 @ 7:27 am PT...
TLV #2 Keep up the good work.
I trust you know about Velvet Revolution (link here) and Black Box Voting (link here).
They would appreciate your energies too. Your work is paying off.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 10/21/2005 @ 7:58 am PT...
Just a bit o.t...
Has anyone watched the video of the talk by Lawrence Wilkerson: "A Secretive Cabal Running American Foreign Policy is Undermining American Democracy"?
http://www.thewashington...com/archives/001018.html
It's long but DEFINITELY worth watching.
Wilkerson is Colin Powell's chief-of-staff (present? former?), and he says Powell is not too pleased with his speaking out. He praises Powell but says he felt an obligation to bring this out.
When asked a question about the current state of U.S. dipomacy he said succinctly "It's broken", and added that an Egyptian friend of his explained it with the comment "Well, it's hard to sell shit".
I highly recommend that people watch it.
(Thanks, Human, for posting that earlier)
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 8:39 am PT...
Joan #14
Another critic of the war in Iraq - Robert Fisk - was being interviewed by Amy Goodman.
Unfortunatly I caught just the very end. He was totaly blasting Bushco and the MSM for what is going on. Complained that the media no longer does their job, but rather conforms with and cuddles the ones they should be disecting.
His closing statement was depressing. Amy asked him "What do you see that gives you hope?"
Answer: "Nothing"
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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TLV
said on 10/21/2005 @ 9:28 am PT...
Thanks, Dredd. Even though we had no problems in my county in Ohio because we had paper ballots, the election officials have paid no attention to the possible "backdoor" in the tabulator that we will now have to use to count our votes. At a demonstration of the Diebold machines that we have been forced to purchase, the rep from the election board stated they can't be hacked because they aren't attached to anything! I sent this woman two letters telling her it is the tabulator that can be hacked, not the voting machines. Did she mention this? Of course not. I don't think she has a clue what the word tabulate means! God - the frustration is too much sometimes, but I'm not giving up!
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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Miss Persistent
said on 10/21/2005 @ 9:54 am PT...
OT, while waiting on the news...
Wouldn't it be grand if the Meirs nomination was considered necessary so that W would have his personal attorney in the U.S. Supreme Court in case he...needs her personally?
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 10:42 am PT...
Miss Persistent #17
That may be EXACTLY the reason!
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 10:46 am PT...
Brad,
Once again you make the headlines at Raw Story with your report!
Brad Blog Rocks!!!
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 10:48 am PT...
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
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PetGoat
said on 10/21/2005 @ 10:53 am PT...
As a general rule, if a report comes out on Friday it's something
the administration wants buried. By the time the MSM get around
to writing about it on Monday the attitude is: It's old news so who
cares?
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 11:08 am PT...
PetGoat #21
Ain't that the truth!
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
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hacked909
said on 10/21/2005 @ 11:09 am PT...
One could but wonder how a Democracy might choose elected officials that represent only the greediest of Billionaires and gay hating evangelicals. "It is not who votes that counts - It is, rather, who counts the votes that matters.".
Our country has been stolen by those now confronted by millions of pissed off voters. They should all be in prison and many on death rows. They brought 9-11 down on us along with their wars for profits.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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Lemmethink_not
said on 10/21/2005 @ 11:12 am PT...
TLV, don't give up, our elected usually reply with a dumbass form letter that is totally off point, one I recently got in re: to a complaint , Cramers office sends me a "thank you for your interest and support letter" duh......#12 Robert " In other words...the shit has hit the fan." I hope so
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/21/2005 @ 11:24 am PT...
WOW!!!!! This report is amazing!!!!!!!!
:O
It's a SCATHING critique of our voting system, confirming that 2004 was likely stolen and past elections tampered with, that we can have zero confidence in results without full reforms!!!!
Sensenbrenner, Conyers, Boheler, everyone signed this!!!!!
There is hope yet!!!!! WE'VE FINALLY TURNED THE CORNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doug E.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
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KestrelBrighteyes
said on 10/21/2005 @ 11:28 am PT...
To all the Republican trolls who said it was a conspiracy theory dreamed up by the left -
I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU SO I TOLD YOU SO!!!
Mainstream media has been taking a beating right and left lately, and they're getting tired of it. Somehow I don't think they're gonna let this one fall through the cracks.
(Hey, I'm an optimist, so SUE ME! *L*)
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 12:11 pm PT...
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 10/21/2005 @ 12:34 pm PT...
Now to make sure the media covers this. It would be ironic if this GAO Report gets ignored due to news of indictments or Wilma coverage.
We may need to be pro-active to ensure this gets the coverage it deserves. Maybe 6 or 7 of us can pass on this link.
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/21/2005 @ 12:43 pm PT...
Notice Sensenbrenner's still harping on "evidence of widespread voter fraud in Milwaukee in recent elections."
Is this true? I was under the impression there was very little evidence of 'voter' fraud in the 2004 s*election.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
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MarkH
said on 10/21/2005 @ 12:44 pm PT...
Evening news broadcast: The GAO released a report on electronic voting machines today. Now, in other news...
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
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Genele
said on 10/21/2005 @ 1:18 pm PT...
Now we just need a Federal Investigator like Fitzgerald to investigate Diebold and it's connection to the Busheviks!
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/21/2005 @ 2:14 pm PT...
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/21/2005 @ 2:21 pm PT...
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/21/2005 @ 2:28 pm PT...
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 2:48 pm PT...
Doug #32
You lost me, I'm trying to see how you got from your link in that post to your staement about Gonzales?
By the way they have a factual error in the story about LPG. They state it: "condenses to a liquid 1/600th the mass of its vapor form". That should be "volume" not "mass".
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/21/2005 @ 2:52 pm PT...
Maybe Fitz doesn't want to give the spin-machine time to muddy the playground ???
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
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davek
said on 10/21/2005 @ 3:02 pm PT...
I am fast-forwarding here but maybe this is the beginning of the end of this dark era of electronic cheating, look what it led to with the Bush presidency and Repub majority. Think of the lives lost in Iraq, New Orleans, etc. If you are a parent, spouse or friend of one of those lost or forever altered, I can't imagine how you feel.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
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davek
said on 10/21/2005 @ 3:03 pm PT...
I am fast-forwarding here but maybe this is the beginning of the end of this dark era of electronic cheating, look what it led to with the Bush presidency and Repub majority. Think of the lives lost in Iraq, New Orleans, etc. If you are a parent, spouse or friend of one of those lost or forever altered, I can't imagine how you feel.
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
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MIG
said on 10/21/2005 @ 3:10 pm PT...
COMMENT #23 [link]
...hacked909 said on 10/21/2005 @ 11:09am PT...
Our country has been stolen by those now confronted by millions of pissed off voters. They should all be in prison and many on death rows. They brought 9-11 down on us along with their wars for profits.
IS ANYONE ELSE IN AGREEMENT WITH HACKED 909'S CRAP THAT "they brought 9-11 down on us"???
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
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davek
said on 10/21/2005 @ 3:12 pm PT...
HEY STEVE F: I AM SO GLAD TO SEE (BY YOUR ABSENCE) THAT YOU HAVE CONSIDERED ALL OF THIS EVIDENCE AND NOW CAN SEE THAT THESE GUYS REALLY ARE EVIL, ELECTIONS HAVE BEEN STOLEN, OUR ECONOMY HAS BEEN KICKED IN THE TEETH AND THE REPUBS HAVE NOT BEEN FULLY HONEST WITH YOU AND OTHER PARTY MEMBERS. STILL ROOM FOR A CONSERVATIVE SIDE TO THINGS, JUST HOPE ITS A MORE HONEST ONE IN THE FUTURE...HERE IS TO THE TRUTH!
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/21/2005 @ 3:19 pm PT...
Mig --- yup. MIHOP or LIHOP --- not much diff.
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/21/2005 @ 3:24 pm PT...
Kira, Davek, Bluebear2
Gonzales attempted to squash indictments today.
"The Gonzales story is coming from this source......say what you will about them, but if it is true this is deadly serious....."
David Corn reports that the envelopes will be released names redacted.........you have all got to realize what this means, and spread the word.
Doug E.
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
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KEVIN SCHMIDT
said on 10/21/2005 @ 3:25 pm PT...
In the article it states, "A joint bi-partisan press release touting the findings of the report has just been issued by three Republican and three Democratic Congressmen."
Really? Bi-partisan? That is ridiculous!
If the Republicans are so concerned about fair voting, then why have they shot down every one of the dozens of election reform bills submitted by the Democrats since Bush stole the first election???
Face the facts, the only way we are going to see meaningful election reform on a federal level is for the Democrats to take back the majority in both the Senate and the House.
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
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Foridiot
said on 10/21/2005 @ 4:01 pm PT...
Kira caught it,
Nonsensenbrenner hitting on voter fraud again, what a shill, somebody ought to cut his tongue out,
probably Wally Odells big bud
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 4:11 pm PT...
Doug #42
Thanks for the link.
Tom Flocco Is also claiming exclusive on this story.
There was indeed an incident regarding a report that there was a bomb in a car at the capital. The bomb squad blew up the package.
What gets my eye, in the cloak and dagger report, is this part: "Gonzales swiftly disqualified himself refusing Bush's order to on the spot firing Patrick Fitzgerald."
Sounds more like he saw a major conflict of interest and recused himself.
The fact that he didn't try to fire Fitz seems to be a positive sign.
Coming from Tom Flocco makes me wonder about the validity. He's been claiming to have the list of indicties since August.
Nothing about this development at Raw Story or DU, both of wich should have picked up on it by now if it was legit.
I guess I'll take it with a grain of salt for now.
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
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Floridiot
said on 10/21/2005 @ 4:13 pm PT...
OOPS,
so pissed I couldn't spell my own handle right
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 4:20 pm PT...
You know they are starting to wake up when this story even makes it to ZD-NET - a technology geek site.
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 4:25 pm PT...
By the way - Welcome back Kira, good to see you back around the neighborhood.
Or is that neighborblog?
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 4:40 pm PT...
Well I guess we've strayed some from the general topic here, so I can't help myself - just one more:
Whaaaaah Whaaaaaaaaaaah Mommyyyyyyy
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/21/2005 @ 4:40 pm PT...
Not even RAWSTORY has former and current intelligence sources as a source.
Tom Henegan (who gave the information to Flocco and someone else) reported that Gonzales attempted to obstruct justice. I would trust him given he's an FBI deputy.
Gonzales has removed himself from the assault however if you follow all the lines, and David Corn's testimony. Gonzales may resign and just like the Saturday Night Massacre, Cheney will attempt to obstruct justice further as they turn against him..
Doug E.
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 4:42 pm PT...
Doug,
I will be watching for sure!
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/21/2005 @ 4:44 pm PT...
Thanks Bluebear2 AND HAHAHA! GW looks like he's gonna lose his cookies any second! (Or is that pretzels?)
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 10/21/2005 @ 4:47 pm PT...
TLV has it right. "It's the tabulators, stupid."
Individual voting machines can flip invidivual votes. And they did, almost exclusively in Bush's favor. Tabulators flip BLOCKS of votes, according to what's needed at crunch time. If too few individual votes have been flipped to decide the outcome (in the G.O.P.'s favor), then enough votes are flipped by a hacked tabultor to compensate.
That didn't only happen in Ohio, it happened in Florida. And not only in 2004, but in 2000 also. Which is what we've been saying all along.
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/21/2005 @ 5:09 pm PT...
Robert: And at last the government has admitted it......
The silence is broken. We must ensure their empire falls and the NEOCONS are put into the COURT OF JUSTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doug E.
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 10/21/2005 @ 5:19 pm PT...
Doug E #34
David Corn says a reporter raised the possibility of sealed indictments. "He wasn't making a prediction; he was raising a possibility. "
This seems like pure speculation.
The other website (about the Gonzalez recusing himself from firing Fitzgerald) just doesn't look credible enough, and there's no external confirmation provided.
Seems like a lot of rumours are flying around. I'll wait for the "real thing" rather than spending my time guessing. I wouldn't advise contacting the media based only on someone else's guesswork, with no sources.
Much better would be to contact the media to ask them to do a story on the issues raised by the GAO report.
COMMENT #56 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 10/21/2005 @ 5:25 pm PT...
The Tom Flocco piece looks more credible.
Maybe there is something to it after all.
COMMENT #57 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 10/21/2005 @ 5:29 pm PT...
The big irony is--even if Flocco is right, and all the top administration is indicted and arrested--we still need to sort out the election system problems if we want to have a future. History will repeat itself till enough people wise up.
COMMENT #58 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 10/21/2005 @ 5:54 pm PT...
Catherine a #57
So true.
If they all get brought down as we wish - who takes over?
What's the chain of command if the president and vice-president are both gone along with their party's top spokesman?
Just wondering - any poli-sci folks out there?
COMMENT #59 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/21/2005 @ 5:57 pm PT...
Trust me on this.....Gonzales has been removed.
Cheney attempted to obstruct justice.....
The neocons are pinned, angry, and cornered....
Cheney's top officials have turned against him, and Bush if he kept the conspiracy running....
Ariel Sharon is forcing the United States military to INVADE Syria.......all the while they are peeling away at the facade on Niger.
The conspiracy is coming to a close.... The conspiracy with the Israeli Likuds and Iranians was real and is ending, Chalabi will be dragged before a court and everything is about to get alot hotter.......
ONE WORD: Able Danger....
Doug E.
COMMENT #60 [Permalink]
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Savantster
said on 10/21/2005 @ 6:30 pm PT...
So.. how does a nice little .. oh.. we'll call it the "realist party".. member run for President?
COMMENT #61 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/21/2005 @ 7:33 pm PT...
Doug, this is an interesting take on indicting bush & co.
Indictment Is Easy Way Out For Bush Officials
Should Rove, Libby, Cheney and others be indicted in the CIA leak case it will be akin to slipping out the back door
Steve Watson October 20 2005
[snip] Should Bush Administration Officials be indicted and forced to resign over the Plame case in the coming weeks, the left will undoubtedly declare a major victory for justice and truth. We say that should this happen the truth will consequently be buried and injustice will once again prevail.
To see the likes of Rove and Cheney skulking off back into the undergrowth, undoubtedly with massive paychecks will be no victory for the truth movement at all. These men should be held up to account for multiple illegal corporate wranglings, for high treason for the Coup de Tat on 9/11 and for crimes against humanity due to their involvement in the illegal and unjust war in Iraq.
Allowing them to get away with simple perjury over the Plame leak case will allow them to return back to what they know best, how to influence Government policy and advance the elite agenda whilst NOT in power. And Whilst many will wait around the front so to speak, cheering and celebrating this "victory", Rove et al will simply sneak out of the back door. [snip]
COMMENT #62 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 10/21/2005 @ 10:25 pm PT...
He doesn't understand our system. Indictment means more than resignation, it means jeopardy before the bar of justice for each individual. It can mean fines, and disbarment for lawyer-politicians (as it did for Clinton).
A plea bargain might keep a Rove or a Libby out of jail, but that doesn't mean he'd retain power; the source of Rove's power, and Libby's, is the Bush administration, which will have been weakened drastically. Assuming Democrats take control of Congress in 2006 (it will be harder for the G.O.P. to steal an election with Rove gone), then the administration will be further marginalized.
To assume Rove and Libby could resign and remain as eminence grises for Bush is cynical and misguided.
COMMENT #63 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/21/2005 @ 11:11 pm PT...
Kira: That is incorrect...
Especially if a sitting president....ends up indicted.....
As soon as the explosion begins, not only will they be forced to resign but to defend themselves.
This is not just a "slip out the back door". Able-Danger is the other shoe waiting to drop which will finish off the rest of them.
There's literally nowhere to hide now, they are surrounded, the american people are aware of their treason and nothing is secret anymore......they either kill themselves or submit to the rule of law.
Able-Danger was covered up by them the whole time.....Michael Chertoff & Douglas Feith squashed the Able reports and funneled the blame onto "muslims". Several congressman are aware of it now including Curt Weldon.....
It can't be hidden anymore...Congress was bought by AIPAC, everyone knows.......They will be forced to do their jobs. If not, they will face insurrection and the downfall of government from their last incompetence.
Doug E.
COMMENT #64 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/21/2005 @ 11:45 pm PT...
I hope you guys are right. I've lost so much faith in our legal system --- starting with the awarding of the Presidency to gw bush in 2000 by the Supremes.
When Nixon resigned, did we taxpayers no longer pay him a salary?
COMMENT #65 [Permalink]
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m3
said on 10/21/2005 @ 11:54 pm PT...
OT... Just posting this becuase I know we're all sick of seeing how little gets mentioned of the PNAC.
Dan Froomkin, in the Washington Post, highlighted Cheney's motive for a cabal to influence foreign policy... linking to the Project for the New American Century's statements, etc.
Washington Post Article
COMMENT #66 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 10/22/2005 @ 5:03 am PT...
BevHarris #66
Is there any way citizens could take a class action lawsuit against an elected official?
Is the ballot box the ONLY way to get at elected officials who abuse the public trust?
COMMENT #67 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 10/22/2005 @ 5:18 am PT...
Is that "THE" Bev Harris posting above me? What an honor!
Jeff: The sinsister laugh is spelled, "Moo Hoo Ha Ha Ha Ha"
Where is Steve F??? Won't you join us in insuring fair elections for all? That's what we're after. Whoever gets the most votes, wins...be it Republican or Democrat or 3rd party...
Bev, I go on your site a lot, but have a different userid.
Great work, everybody. Is this on TV??? Probably not. I keep saying, the next big story is Raw Story or Brad Blog exposing exactly who is suppressing important news on TV, and naming names!!! If this isn't extensively covered on TV, that is so f***ing HUGE as proof of the MSM not having America's interest, and being "controlled".
COMMENT #68 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 10/22/2005 @ 5:21 am PT...
My congressman, Chris Shays, e-mailed me to the effect that he wouldn't vote for an election reform bill (though he believes in paper receipts) because IT WAS MOTIVATED BY PARTISAN POLITICS.
Obviously, there's still a lot of work to do here. Bev Harris' approach has been 100% scientific and 0% partisan, as far as I can tell. It wasn't Democrats who forced the Ohio recount, it was Libertarians and Greens (Democrats have avoided the election fraud issue like the plague). Bradblog's header says it isn't about liberal and conservative, it's about right and wrong.
So why does Chris Shays insist that calls for reform are politically motivated? I think it's his way of trying to appear non-partisan and above the fray.
In the process, though, he avoids confronting sinister forces in his own (Republican) party that have stolen two consecutive presidential elections and a number of Congressional ones, too.
Lesson: Calling reform efforts at the federal level "political" is a cloak for crookedness, whether it's election fraud, money laundering, illegal contributions from corporations, golf outings, or political payoffs. A third party is badly needed now, because Democrats can't clean up the mess.
COMMENT #69 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 10/22/2005 @ 5:23 am PT...
#67: The ballot box isn't even a way to get these crooks out! There is not way! This whole post is about taking American's voting rights away from them with these insecure machines, so that we can't even vote out someone who got in via these machines. Think about it...if someone got in via these machines, how do you get them out via these machines? That's the real crime in it, we can't get them out!
COMMENT #70 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 10/22/2005 @ 6:28 am PT...
#66
Bev,
Thank you Thank you Thank you for all your great work! I wish I could put that in lights on Broadway, for you & Brad (and a few others!) who will surely go down in history as TRUE PATRIOTS.
You wrote...
"In a recent trip to D.C., I was told that lack of will to prosecute will be the next roadblock, after we have enough evidence to proceed."
...and I am thinking along the same lines as Catherine...
"Is there any way citizens could take a class action lawsuit against an elected official?"
...only I would make that "several elected officials".
Are there limits to how many plaintiffs a class action lawsuit can have?
And is there a limit on the number of crimes one lawsuit can cover?
Am I dreamin' or would this not be the mother of all class action lawsuits?
I'm thinking maybe 6 or 7 others might be having similar thoughts....?
It occurred to me recently that instead of us wasting our time writing to senators, congresspeople & journalists---complicit, complicit & complicit---we should be writing to LAWYERS.
God knows there are enough of them out there. And this is certainly a case that would--no WILL!--make somebody's career.
COMMENT #71 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 10/22/2005 @ 7:00 am PT...
There is a post here that has links to several useful documents:
1) the GAO report
2) all submissions made by citizens, scientists and groups to the NIST conference on "Threats to Votings Systems" (each submission covers a different topic)
3) a PowerPoint presentation anyone can use to show the many ways voting systems can--and have been--attacked (This is called an "attack tree".)
COMMENT #72 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 10/22/2005 @ 7:03 am PT...
Joan #71
We'd need lawyers with lots of background and experience in civil rights.
There are surely lots of picky rules that would make it difficult, but it would be nice to know what options there might be.
In addition to elected officials, I wonder if there is also a way to get rid of people who are appointed to their office rather than elected.
Any legal eagles here?
COMMENT #73 [Permalink]
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A Concerned Citizen
said on 10/22/2005 @ 7:05 am PT...
DAVEK #37 - it is very hard. As the mother of a son about to return to Iraq, I can tell you first hand the morale is low and the toll taken from his first full year there is high. Obviously, I can't, or won't, talk to my son about Diebold, DSM or the war started on lies right now. He doesn't know I'm on the internet all the time reading news and blogging and wanting to do things to help him somehow.
I do know that he was dumped off back in the hangar last time, after a full year in Ramadi and Fallujah, without anyone sitting him down individually or even as a group, to see if he was handling things okay. That pissed me off. He has luckily, a "minor" case of PTSD right now, shutting a lot of people out of his life. He's heading out before Christmas again, for another year of hell. I did ask him how the morale is among his unit and he said it wasn't good. I know my son is caught in the stop-loss and that SURELY doesn't help morale, when it's against the piece of paper they called an "agreement" signed. He has never expressed anger over that, though, to his credit. I'm the one who is upset. He just wants to get it over with so he can come home to stay.
Sorry, went way off target, but I just wanted to say that all of this news in the past 6 months, or so, has changed things so much in my mind. This illegal election is the MAIN factor behind my son leaving me, his wife, and two small children, to risk his life again. It's not just Bush who was elected wrongly, the entire war mongering administration is using my son as a pawn in their scheme of things. How am I going to go to the hangar in a few weeks, to say good-bye to my prescious son again, knowing what I know now??? Last time I was waving the flag and feeling so damn patriotic. Last time there was somewhat of a cause.
This time I'm wondering if I'll be able to wave the flag, or just stand there crying, until I collapse.
COMMENT #74 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 10/22/2005 @ 9:11 am PT...
Bev Harris #66
Good to have you posting here. Welcome. I mention you and Jim and provide the link to Black Box Voting often. You folk do a wonderful non partisan job.
You said "Our organization is participating with and providing evidence to prosecutors on local levels now for election fraud-related issues, but we sure have a problem finding an entity that can investigate and prosecute secretaries of state."
Exactly. The body politic is not aware of what happened a long time ago. Sovereign Immunity.
Professor Prosser, in his book "The law of Torts", (the older edition I used during law school), said he could not understand how the American people allowed that concept to creep into American law and jurisprudence and infect us with the problems it caused in England
Basically the king was a sovereign and was immune from suit of any sort in the courts. They were, after all, the king's court and the king's bench.
The new American government being formed, "of and by the people", had no business carrying over that notion of government. It is an old form or essence of government that the government is immune from suits ... unless the government gives permission to be sued.
That heresy slipped thru and became a part of American government. Now to sue government officials permission must have been granted by the government. That is the general situation.
It has been getting stronger and stronger and suits against the government are becoming weaker and weaker.
So, I fully understand the steep ground you are trying to climb, and to bring some of these criminals and cheaters to justice ... but since immunity is so strong it will not be easy.
The government in so many ways is immune from the will of the people.
The heretical doctrine of sovereign immunity oozed into the American system and began to corrupt it a long time ago. It won't go without a fight and will take a long, long time to disinfect.
COMMENT #75 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 10/22/2005 @ 9:14 am PT...
#74
Concerned,
How I wish there was something I could offer you besides sympathy, besides words. Your comments break my heart.
I can say only that your words have made me realize, again, that I CANNOT keep saying, as I have been recently, that "I'm burned out on politics" and expect other people to keep on fighting these evil deeds.
I HAVE TO do my part. For your son, for every son, for every soldier, for every PERSON they've put in harm's way.
COMMENT #76 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 10/22/2005 @ 10:19 am PT...
Dredd #75
Do government officials who have immunity have protection from civil suits as well as criminal suits? Is the degree of immunity (if any) different in the case of each state or federal official? (I assume that each state election officer, and every member of a county or municipal election board or voter registrar, probably has a different situation in regard to immunity and what it covers.)
COMMENT #77 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 10/22/2005 @ 12:02 pm PT...
Government officials who act under color of state law can be sued under 42 USC 1983 if they violate federal rights and they are not granted immunity. Absolute immunity applies to judges, legislators, jurors, and others. Qualified immunity applies to policemen and others.
It is quite a complicated hodge podge, and varies from federal circuit to federal circuit. In other words the law is not the same in the 9th circuit as it is in the 5th circuit, etc. etc.
Federal officials can be sued in a Bivins action, and statutorily granted situations.
COMMENT #78 [Permalink]
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BevHarris
said on 10/22/2005 @ 12:25 pm PT...
Congrats, Brad, on your quick coverage of this. We noticed that the GAO was downloading documents from Black Box Voting frequently, for a while, visiting our site daily. We also knew the tide was changing when the NIST "Threats" conference finally put voting machine hacking into the mainstream. I have about 40 documents on specific attacks, written by credible scientists, in the new lead story at (GAO, NIST, voting machine security goes mainstream) at Black Box Voting.
Our organization is participating with and providing evidence to prosecutors on local levels now for election fraud-related issues, but we sure have a problem finding an entity that can investigate and prosecute secretaries of state. The attorney general prosecutes crime at the state level, but the attorney general is also the appointed defense counsel for the secretary of state.
We are sniffing out some productive information that relates to Blackwell, but still shopping for a legal theory that provides citizens with a right to go after him, or a public official who has the authority to sue him or prosecute him. In a recent trip to D.C., I was told that lack of will to prosecute will be the next roadblock, after we have enough evidence to proceed.
Rep. Conyers is correct that the GAO report gives credibility to the issue, but the next question will be enforcing accountability and consquences. Currently it isn't clear how that will be achieved.
COMMENT #79 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/22/2005 @ 12:28 pm PT...
OK Dredd --- using your expertise --- how do we do it? How do we bust these Secs. of State like Blackwell AND my own Dem. SOS Cathy Cox, who single-handedly decided to put Blackbox DREs in every GA precinct? (Cox is now running for governor ... what choice do we have now? A Republican in Democrat Clothing or a Republican. Great choice.)
COMMENT #80 [Permalink]
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Kevin
said on 10/22/2005 @ 2:47 pm PT...
So how many wrong votes were the result of after the counting ballot stuffing and the slashing of tires of GOTV vehicles?
COMMENT #81 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/22/2005 @ 2:56 pm PT...
What do you do with people like kevin #80 who apparently don't know how to read? He obviously doesn't understand that the slashing of the GOTV vehicles tires had ZERO impact on the casting of a single vote. And I truly don't understand his other comment re "counting ballot stuffing."
Ah well --- we can only encourage people to educate themselves.
COMMENT #82 [Permalink]
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A Concerned Citizen
said on 10/22/2005 @ 3:02 pm PT...
Joan, thank you so much. I feel you are doing a lot for us mothers and families, from your kind words of support, and also from helping to spread the real news. I know what you mean about almost giving up, I've been close too. You're right, we can't give up. I want to help every military member and civilian too, not just my son. I don't want to lose my country to crooks. I'm damn mad and I'm fighting back.
You and Brad and anybody with a true concern for our country is helping. And you know what? I think it's beginning to pay off!!!! At least I feel hope for the first time in a long time. Thank you again, Joan.
While some people think it's impossible, I am completely able to entirely support my son and all of our military, while reaching out for answers to what I feel are a lot of lies and deception by their leaders. Our military are the bravest people on this earth, bar none. They deserve better. I feel we ARE being American by asking for answers. Sitting by and letting this unjustice take over this land is, to me, letting down all generations of our families, both past and future. Stand up now America, is what I'm hoping.
COMMENT #83 [Permalink]
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BevHarris
said on 10/22/2005 @ 3:13 pm PT...
to Dredd:
Thanks for the legal insights. What we are getting on Blackwell right now --- well, from a legal standpoint, I don't know exactly what it can be classified as. If you can e-mail me privately (bev@blackboxvoting.org, allow several days to respond as volume is heavy) --- we may be able to kick this around a bit more.
It may not be earthshaking. A type of evidence we're collecting right now is VERY damning for Diebold, but also, perhaps, for Blackwell. I just don't know under what theory of law it can be consequated, for Blackwell. Don't get your hopes up, folks, it's not evidence of specific vote-rigging. It's more along the lines of --- I don't know, derilection of duty, or improper procurement, or failure to comply with his job description or something. Those of you who have been with BBV as constructive participants and researchers for a long time will see what it is, it's in one of the private areas.
COMMENT #84 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/22/2005 @ 3:46 pm PT...
Concerned #82
None of us who regularly post here (and everyone I personally know who is against this corrupt regime and illigetimate, immoral war) think anything but good thoughts about our military personnel. Damn the liars of the reich-wing!!!!!
We completely support them. They are doing their duty and serving this, our country, in their best capacity. They take their orders from the Commander in Chief (in this case, Commander in Cheat or Thief.)
Our Armed Forces, men and women --- and kids --- have been lied to and thrown into ungodly situations without proper armor & equipment. They have been served rotting food by Cheney's pet company Halliburton. And it is for the incomprehensible greed of members of the PNAC Round Table.
Many of us here have either family or friends serving in this war. We FULLY SUPPORT OUR TROOPS. This is so heartbreaking that the media continues to parrot the White House propaganda that we, the War Protestors hate our troops and our country. I say it again --- DAMN the Reich-Wingers! DAMN the Liars.
COMMENT #85 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/22/2005 @ 3:55 pm PT...
Just a quick note --- Concerned --- in reading over what I wrote (in a heated firestorm of thoughts & emotion) I sure hope you don't think I'm ranting AT you!!
I feel a lot of pain, also. But, I can't imagine what you personally are going through --- having to wait for your son to complete his second tour of duty must be excruciating. My prayers are for you as well as all of our military serving overseas. My prayers are also for those who live in countries we have invaded. My prayers are with us all. May the force be with us.
COMMENT #86 [Permalink]
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A Concerned Citizen
said on 10/22/2005 @ 4:26 pm PT...
Kira - no, I knew it wasn't "at" me ) you've always been nothing but sweet to me and everyone. I didn't mean YOU guys, I meant OTHERS lol. I didn't mean to go on and on this thread, I'm sorry, I think I'm just so damn scared at saying good-bye to my son this time, that I'm freaking out somewhat...
This voting thing just seems to be the straw that broke my back, so to say. Because of the lack of an honest election, our future hopes to do anything about the wrong direction this country is going, as ordinary citizens, is squashed. What the hell is the magic poll numbers this country reaches before something is done? How many crimes? That's all I'm wondering lately.
Thanks, Kira, for posting the second post, I hope to support you guys with your family members also )
COMMENT #87 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/22/2005 @ 4:42 pm PT...
Hi Concerned - please don't apologize for "going on and on" - for one thing, I don't think you did! For the other - we really need to say these things AND openly ... like we CAN here since we still have the RIGHT to FREEDOM of SPEECH here. And HOPEFULLY others who lurk but don't post will be inspired by our words. This is OUR MEDIA right now.
Thank you for the kind words I'm always glad to see you posting. It really does feel like a family here. I know you all give me hope and strength.
It seems like things are changing. Nothing goes fast enough for me, but it does seem a bit different. We need to keep the pressure on ... now is the time to push even harder, I think.
My quote for the day:
�Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.� - Margaret Mead
(That would be us!)
COMMENT #88 [Permalink]
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MarkH
said on 10/22/2005 @ 5:09 pm PT...
Sometimes the 'small committed group' can achieve great things on their own. Sometimes they must educate and/or lead the masses. Fortunately we can do 6 or 7 things at once --- including blogs, e-mail and legal actions.
COMMENT #89 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/22/2005 @ 5:24 pm PT...
Bev Harris
This is very important...Just what kind of specific "type" of evidence is there against Blackwell? It doesn't matter how it implicates him. As long as he's shown to have violated the neccesary Ohio provisions, thats all that is needed to uncover the whole thing and get his proven hand in the fraud.......If Blackwell is deposed, I guarantee the Triad employees will flip on eachother and sing like birds. Just give me some idea of what kind of laws might have been violated....
In fact if not here email it to me. If its useable evidence, it can be turned over to the Justice Department and this little slimeball and his friend Thomas Noe will get what they deserve.
Doug E.
COMMENT #90 [Permalink]
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BevHarris
said on 10/22/2005 @ 7:56 pm PT...
BevHarris said on 10/22/2005 @ 7:52pm PT...
Doug E. --
Not all infractions are under the purview of the D.O.J., some are civil not criminal, and as pointed out earlier, some can fall under immunity clauses. I think we'll just consult a paid attorney on this and follow instructions. The last thing we need is another bout of public hysteria and guesswork over something that may turn out to be difficult to consequate.
Willy-nilly handing over of documents, if you don't know the priorities of those to whom you give them, is pretty dumb. If you hand over evidence to people with the wrong loyalties, you end up helping your opponents neutralize the impact of whatever you found.
COMMENT #91 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/22/2005 @ 7:59 pm PT...
I didn't imply that I want anything your attorney has, but I would be most interested in hearing specifics about the violations involved.
Meaning, has Blackwell been proven to have broken election law, state law, possible tampering clauses on how he handled security?
Is there any concrete information on this you're willing to divulge? Much appreciated if you can provide something.
Doug E.
COMMENT #92 [Permalink]
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w00t
said on 10/23/2005 @ 3:10 am PT...
Anyone else find it strange that Sensenbrenner was a part of this?
COMMENT #93 [Permalink]
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BevHarris
said on 10/23/2005 @ 6:12 am PT...
Doug E:
It wouldn't be tampering. Election laws are state laws. (There is also administrative procedure and local regulations which can sometimes apply). We are still seeking one small piece of information which could offer both Blackwell and Diebold an excuse, albeit a poor one. We haven't even figured out how and where to find that piece of information.
And, while the subject of one of our current investigations certainly looks like inappropriate behavior, it may not be criminal. Don't get your hopes up.
I'll know whether it breaks any statutes by Wednesday. Even if it does, remember how they always raise the bar:
- You found something but we had to do it that way to protect "security"
- Okay, our protection of "security" might not have been correct but you can't prove that particular exploit was used in a specific election.
- (and if you prove it was used) "But it didn't affect the outcome of the election"
- (and if it may have affected the election) "This is partisan"
- and finally, "get over it, the election's over."
COMMENT #94 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 10/23/2005 @ 9:59 am PT...
92
W00T, asked:
"Anyone else find it strange that Sensenbrenner was a part of this?"
Yes, that was one of my first thoughts, too, while remembering how he had turned off the mikes while Dems were speaking.
Here's another question:
Am I alone in thinking that any glee/relief/joy we might indulge in at the GAO's issuing of this report is maybe much ado about nothing?
Have y'all read it? Because here's kind of how it reads to me...
Your child is enrolled in a daycare center and you begin hearing rumors that the place may be run by a bunch of pedophiles.
Ok, putting aside for the moment how crazy you would have to be to not immediately get in the car, drive over there & get your kid.... let's say the daycare center, in an effort to reassure nervous parents & repair their reputation, does an investigation & issues a report.
The report first lists the concerns:
Witnesses say children there were starved, beaten & sodomized on a daily basis.
Then the report lists recommendations of actions to be taken:
Set guidelines detailing the center's goals, standards, codes of conduct & security measures;
Form committees to assess the quality of the center's hiring process, employee review program, summer vacation schedule & Christmas card list;
Schedule appointment with county commissioners to determine feasibility of further studies into the history of pedophilia and its impact on daycare centers.
Well, I guess you get my drift. (damn, that Joan's being a sarcastic, snotty bitch again)
There's a list somewhere in there, under the heading "Non-governmental initiatives", of election-reform and related groups & what they do & what they plan to do, & I found it a little disturbing that under the heading "Status" the most oft-repeated phrase was "no specific timetable".
Yes, there was some good stuff in there, too but....
I dunno. Is it me? Maybe it's me.
COMMENT #95 [Permalink]
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davek
said on 10/23/2005 @ 10:01 am PT...
I wish this was a little more sexy so the news media would see fit to cover it. Looked in my Sunday paper and of course nothing! What does it take?
COMMENT #96 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 10/23/2005 @ 11:19 am PT...
Joan #94
I don't think it's just you.
The good thing is that an official government publication is owning up to a fuller range of the problems than has ever happened before.
BUT--as DaveK says, the difficulty will be to get the news media to cover it. It will take sustained, ongoing effort from all of us to spread the word.
For anyone involved in activism at local, state or national level (e.g. meeting with election boards, doing FOIAs or PRRs, communicating with local media) it will be a HUGE help in adding credibility to what we've been saying all along. It will provide a valuable source of "talking points" to be used in public meetings, when questioning our legislators, on talk shows, etc.
But it is a long way from improving our broken election system. This report will NOT change anything--unless we use it as a tool to support our efforts. Like any tool, IT'S ONLY HELPFUL IF WE PICK IT UP AND USE IT.
COMMENT #97 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/23/2005 @ 11:35 am PT...
I am with you, Joan. I am so unalterably convinced that Rove and Diebold plus other partisan-owned voting machine companies were involved in vote manipulation that I cannot accept the phrase (borrowed from Bev's #93) - (and if you prove it was used) "But it didn't affect the outcome of the election" or the other lame "let's fix it for the next one." Kind of like bu$h when confronted about Katrina saying, "let's don't play the blame game. I don't care about what just happened - I only care about the NEXT time." Sorry --- our legal system has never before worked like that.
When I read this GAO report and the ACVR reports and the baker/Carter Commission reports I see the same things - along with the illegitimate claims of massive Democrat voter fraud. I am infuriated that people like Jimmy Carter aren't calling them out on every one of their ploys/lies.
I think Jimmy Carter has no experience with computers and like a large percentage of the population can't begin to understand the inner workings of program code. It's not just him, but most of the people on these commissions who are just as ignorant as the day is long about computers. This is unforgivable. It's like hiring a gardener to give advice on microsurgery.
Yes - I'm sick of the whole thing and I will not cheer in the streets until this crooked cabal is exposed for what they are and the lies they are telling and getting away with. When I close my eyes, I see them as a blackened, gangrenous wound on the USA, festering and throbbing and stinking to high heaven.
COMMENT #98 [Permalink]
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Mugzi
said on 10/23/2005 @ 11:52 am PT...
I am starting to see light at the end of tunnel. For a while, I felt in complete darkness, but thanks to Bev and Brad and others, the truth will come out! I saw a bumper sticker which says it so well:
I love my country
I fear my government
Let us know what we can do to help! Sign petitions, donations, whatever we can do!
COMMENT #99 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/23/2005 @ 12:07 pm PT...
COMMENT #100 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/23/2005 @ 12:14 pm PT...
Bev: I'm not too worried given that they always do that.
Blackwell is facing several civil suits and days in court. In any case I look forward to reading about exactly what you found.....
I'm sure they will try to slip out of it, but if we get Judge Carr and the Jury the evidence there won't be much wiggle room in that case.
Doug E.
COMMENT #101 [Permalink]
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merifour
said on 10/23/2005 @ 12:46 pm PT...
#99 Kira, haven't looked at your links yet, but do remember that the first site I saw questioning 911 as an inside job was in Canada. That questioning began immediately. Methinks the Canooks knew more about the crooks and liars in the bush regime than we did.
COMMENT #102 [Permalink]
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Floridiot
said on 10/23/2005 @ 12:50 pm PT...
OT, but George Will is hacking away again, calling UAW employees welfare recipients
His new article "Every Chevy comes with a social welfare option"( can't find a link yet), its all the unions fault that GM is going broke because they bargained in good faith, a good medical program for the floor employees,and not the fault of the stock skimmers that don't build the cars, nor the design team execs that kept on designing busses, knowing full well that their was an oil crisis coming
F**k u Will, you hack
COMMENT #103 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/23/2005 @ 12:51 pm PT...
Yah --- remember our propaganda machine that was well-oiled and working quite well for the thugs.
COMMENT #104 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/23/2005 @ 1:00 pm PT...
COMMENT #105 [Permalink]
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Floridiot
said on 10/23/2005 @ 1:07 pm PT...
Hi Kira, Thats an older one, this was in todays St Pete Times, is where I saw it
COMMENT #106 [Permalink]
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larry
said on 10/23/2005 @ 1:21 pm PT...
Wilbur,
With regard to your above posts - KISS MY ASS
COMMENT #107 [Permalink]
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Miss Persistent
said on 10/23/2005 @ 1:25 pm PT...
I wonder if one legal avenue that could take the whole matter to court would be an argument over what the legal term "recount" means. The most simple definition of the word is a "one-by-one accounting of...," and this can't possibly be done by reviewing count totals - both Diebold and Blackwell are guilty. Only a one-by-one accounting can confirm a total. The one-by-one accounting was never done - and can't be done.
COMMENT #108 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/23/2005 @ 1:36 pm PT...
COMMENT #109 [Permalink]
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merifour
said on 10/23/2005 @ 2:02 pm PT...
Kira #99, just looked at your links, have not been to those sites. Wonder how the Bush Crime Commission went Friday-Saturday. Also, is Canada going to get away with going after bush...he has no problem disposing dictators in any other countries, I see no difference. But Canada will pay dearly if they mess with god's man. Thanks for the links.
COMMENT #110 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 10/23/2005 @ 2:04 pm PT...
One interesting side effect from this is that, strange as it may seem, the nations of the world could regain some trust of the body politic.
I mean, from their point of view, expressed by the british headline "How could millions of americans be so dumb?" [to "re-elect" bush] ... or something like that.
If the election was stolen by hacked Diebold machines, then they will regain some confidence in the american voters ... in the sense that in reality the election did not go to bush ...
COMMENT #111 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/23/2005 @ 2:47 pm PT...
Which mainstream paper will pick up the story re GAO report on flawed security of electronic voting machines? Has anybody seen one? Aside from ZNet & YubaNet, I haven't seen anything.
COMMENT #112 [Permalink]
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Phyllis Smith
said on 10/23/2005 @ 2:48 pm PT...
I am not shocked that the irregularities occurred. I am surprised anyone admitted them. The real results of the last election were always questionable as far as I, concerned. And I dont think the head of the states Republican Party should have been the D irector of the State Board of Elections as was the case in Florida in 2000, and in Ohio in 2004. That is in itself tempting fate. I have never felt the electronic voting machines were safe from tampering, and I feel paper ballots should be mandatory as it gives proof a vote was cast, and who the vote was for.
COMMENT #113 [Permalink]
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molly
said on 10/23/2005 @ 2:53 pm PT...
Thanks Bev., for all your hard work, as well as Brad. You guys give me hope. So glad to see class action law suit mentioned. Look what the stolen votes have robbed us of...WTC, New Orleans, surplus in the budget. loss of military and Iraqui lives. Remember the Paula Jones lawsuit, which seemed so tacky at the time. But she sued the pres. The powers that be were in her corner...but I'm guessing the same powers have turned on Bush. Why have the pundits never cared a rat's ass that Cheney was doing war games on 9/11...when we all know his job description was to go to the funeral's of heads of state. Never seemed to cross their collective minds. What if the same thing had happened when Al Gore was VP. Incongruous
COMMENT #114 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 10/23/2005 @ 3:05 pm PT...
Miss Persistent:
I think this is along the lines Bev Harris has been pursuing the evidence under...
In the clause, a recount is the hand by hand counting of, or individual counting of something. IE: To account for the loss or to count each one by one individually.
If this is proven in court, it could be enough to convict Blackwell of a misdemeanor charge for mishandling the recount by failing to do this..and not do it illegally, but failing to secure the ballot tabulator. And if he is convicted of that, he can surely be found to have had "involvement" in the fraud...
Doug E.
COMMENT #115 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 10/23/2005 @ 3:26 pm PT...
Kira #111
Truthout has an article here.
Not MSM however (which proves your point).
If someone sent the link to the BBC or Al Jazeera do you think they'd cover it? I suspect that neither one would want to rock the boat.
COMMENT #116 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 10/23/2005 @ 9:11 pm PT...
Thanks Catherine A. Is something happening in the news media lately? The NY Times seems to be owning up to the errors it made in not properly reporting on the WMD issue. (All due to Judas Miller's recent outing.)
COMMENT #117 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 10/24/2005 @ 7:46 am PT...
Bev Harris #83
I would suggest finding activist lawyers who specialize in "Section 1983" (42 USC 1983) litigation. Find a firm that does pro bono work. Remember, this takes specialists who know this area of litigation like the backs of their hands.
It would be best to find a non-partisan firm (as Black Box voting is) ... a republican and democrat on a team and who have the passion to clean up the corruption.
They exist. I would also suggest a call or email to Congressman Conyers office. They should have a list of such firms.
I would love to participate in such litigation as a team member, however, it is better to let a team perform in its current successful composition. They know how to work together.
Also, it is better to get a team local to the litigation, because the law varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. If you find such a team and you need legal research done, and they are comfortable with that, I will volunteer.
Best of luck and lets keep the pressure on.
Thanks again for your wonderful efforts!
COMMENT #118 [Permalink]
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Lemmethink_not
said on 10/25/2005 @ 9:20 am PT...
Dredd, BevHarris, possible oppression of free exercise of right to vote here ? thoughts?
that is if the right to vote includes accuracy, tabulation .........
TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 241
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same;...
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 242
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, ... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnaping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
COMMENT #119 [Permalink]
...
Joe A.
said on 10/27/2005 @ 9:41 am PT...
The following three documents are on the Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell's website.
[url]http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/HAVA/hava.aspx?section=4[/url]
These documents show that the GEMS / MS Access database security issue was known by Kenneth Blackwell as far back as Nov 2003.
The first document is dated Nov 21, 2003
The second document is dated Aug 18, 2004
The third document is dated Jan 26, 2005
[url]http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/hava/compuware112103.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/hava/diebReasses081804.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/hava/diebReassesAdd012605.pdf[/url]
The documents appear to be Ohio Election System reviews conducted by Compuware Corporation for Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell.
In this Nov 2003 document, it mentions:
"GEMS uses the MS Access database to store ballot definition data and election results. There is a risk that an unauthorized person with access to the GEMS server can access the database and change ballot definition files and election results."
For the above SECURITY ISSUE:
Risk Likelihood = High
Impact Rating = High
Risk Level = High
The documents recommended that the Secretary of State take action to correct the problems.
Only beginning in the Jan 26, 2005 document, does it mention using "Digital Guardian" software as a fix for the problem.
COMMENT #120 [Permalink]
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Joe A.
said on 10/27/2005 @ 10:04 am PT...
COMMENT #121 [Permalink]
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John
said on 10/27/2005 @ 11:34 am PT...
Thaks for those links? it was very usefull
Airlines
COMMENT #122 [Permalink]
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Joe A.
said on 10/27/2005 @ 12:26 pm PT...
I tried, but I couldn't get the website direct links to work on BradBlog.
So you'll need to copy/paste my urls to go to Kenneth Blackwell's website and view the PDFs.
If you know how to use links on BradBlog, feel free to add my Blackwell links to your own post.
COMMENT #123 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 11/4/2005 @ 8:27 am PT...
LemmeThink_Not #118
The statutes you cite are criminal statutes.
These type cases can only be brought by a prosecutor, rather than by private individuals.
The civil statute(s) for these type cases, as I mentioned in post #83, is 42 USC 1983 et. seq., and is commonly used by individulas to sue government officials acting under color of state law.
COMMENT #124 [Permalink]
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ivan
said on 11/8/2005 @ 1:33 pm PT...
USA goverment suxx at all.
Post #83 fully lawfull
COMMENT #125 [Permalink]
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john
said on 11/8/2005 @ 1:35 pm PT...
Stupid russian, dredd right!
COMMENT #126 [Permalink]
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john
said on 11/8/2005 @ 1:42 pm PT...
Stupid russian, dredd right!
COMMENT #127 [Permalink]
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Brad Russell
said on 11/29/2005 @ 11:33 am PT...
WOW! I've never been exposed to as many really nutty mental processes at one time in my life. I'll bet you guys all look like the fat guys with the tape on their glasses waiting 35 hrs for the new xbox.