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This is the general discussion forum for Meta (this wiki). Before you post a new comment please note the following: You can comment here in any language. This forum is primarily for discussion of Meta policies and guidelines, and other matters that affect more than one page of the wiki. If your comment only relates to a single page, please post it on the corresponding discussion page (if necessary, you can provide a link and short description here). For notices and discussions related to multilingualism and translation, see Meta:Babylon and its discussion page. For information about how to indicate your language abilities on your user page ("Babel templates"), see User language. To discuss Wikimedia in general, please use the Wikimedia Forum. Consider whether your question or comment would be better addressed at one of the major Wikimedia "content projects" instead of here.

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Help With Editing

How Can I Edit My Pages and talk pages and User edit pages? Infact how can i edit my article —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 105.6.85.136 (talk) 15:45, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

en:Wikipedia:Tutorial/Editing might help? --Gereon K. (talk) 22:55, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Wikidata data access is coming

Hi everyone :)

A while ago you received access to the interwiki links from Wikidata. Everything seems to be going well so I'd like to move on to the second stage. You will get access to the actual data in Wikidata like the date of birth of a person. You'll be able to make use of them in your templates via Lua or a new parser function (#property). We'll be enabling this on December 2nd. This will be the day for Wikinews, Wikispecies, Meta and MediaWiki. I hope this will open up great new possibilities for you and make your work easier. If you have questions please come to d:Wikidata:Sister projects. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 16:47, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

We chatted with fundraising and agreed to postpone this a bit on meta to not interfere with fundraising on the most successful days of the year. We'll move it to the 15th. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 15:27, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

@Lydia Pintscher (WMDE): Well, but you missed a Beta Feature here: Compact language links. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:15, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Bad sites

Hello.What is your opinion about this page? --ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 17:14, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello. My opinion? The English translation is too bad to be understandable for me. --Gereon K. (talk) 22:52, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello too! Professor ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2?! Hmm a template may useful for your page: {{Humor}}. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:05, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

@Liuxinyu970226: Of course no.These sites should be repealed --ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 18:03, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

moemintun

hi wikipedia thank you help me video not seen —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Moemintun (talk) 17:46, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Global group filemovers

Hi, communities. Sorry for my bad English. I propose to create a global group filemovers to filemovers from Wikimedia Commons. Group pronuyu provide such global permissions:

• autoconfirmed
• autopatrol
• autoreview
• editsemiprotected

Many times there are situations when the global renaming the file and its subsequent replaced causes replacement of patrol marks from the article.

Create a local group will reduce unnecessary burden on the local community. Filemovers in Wikimedia Commons - enough to trusted members of the community, and excessive checking their changes is required. --Максим Підліснюк (talk) 19:42, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

 Oppose For mentioned cases use CommonsDelinker bot. Alan ^(talk) 20:06, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Bot used for a large number of changes. If a small number of substitutions, used an automated script. --Максим Підліснюк (talk) 20:14, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

There is a checkbox that forces the change by bot: Try to replace usage immediately using your user account: . It's as easy as removing the selection. Alan ^(talk) 21:00, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

But unless that option is removed at all the group would actually make sense. It's either we force all filemovers to use the bot instead of script or we grant them the rights, IMHO. In general for me such a group looks sound, though details perhaps need some elaboration (did not check whether the list of rights is ok). --Base (talk) 21:07, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Which filemovers uncheck that checkbox? I never uncheck that checkbox, so when I rename a file on Commons, the filename is typically updated using my account on all wikis. The main exceptions would be if there are too many transclusions of a file (the renaming script refuses to update links in this situation), or if the page's protection settings prevent me from editing the page. For example, I am not autoconfirmed on all projects. --Stefan2 (talk) 21:33, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

For this I proposed global rights autopatrol and autoreview --Максим Підліснюк (talk) 17:30, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I think that filemovers need different rights on different projects. For example, here on Meta, users patrol all edits, but users on English Wikipedia only patrol the first revision of pages. A filemover might need autopatrol on Meta but not on English Wikipedia. Also, projects should be allowed to opt out if they prefer to patrol the edits made by filemovers. --Stefan2 (talk) 17:39, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

In Wikimedia there are two systems - patrolling and FlaggedRevs. Offered me right fit for both systems. Of course, the project should be able to refuse. --Максим Підліснюк (talk) 17:50, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Deactivate the translation extension

Hi there,
is there any possibility to deactivate the translation extension for a page? Especially as the page is still under construction, it is quite annoying to update the translation tags constantly. Any ideas? --Cornelius Kibelka (WMDE) (talk) 10:45, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

@Cornelius Kibelka (WMDE): Just go to Special:PageTranslation and look for the page.--Syum90 (talk) 10:52, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

@Syum90:: Thanks! --Cornelius Kibelka (WMDE) (talk) 13:02, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Must one really mind the translation tags? I usually don't when I make changes. The text in the page (be it English) is far more important than the numerous translation tags that clutter the source code. I just alter the text as I please and give a damn about the tags. Someone else, if they care, can put them right after me. I don't think that I violate any policy here by saying this. You simply cannot force ordinary people to learn how to use those pesky tags. --Pxos (talk) 12:32, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

1) Yes. And you probably create additional work for translate admins and translators by doing that. No, it isn't. And that is a bad way to do it. While you could have at least tried to do it ok yourself. No, there's no policy just respect to each other and common sense. Yeah we can't just as we cannot force people to learn English. 2) It took me several days to learn how to use the Translate Extension quite well. There are things I have to improve in my knowledge about the Extension usage but in general I might say I have almost mastered using it. I learn English for 13 years. Unfortunately that en-2 (being a mean of range of about en-3 in understanding and up to en-1 in oral speaking) is all I have so far. Still my English is quite good comparatively to what many many people have. People are not obliged to learn English, people do not know English not because they are stupid or something like this, but because of many various reasons. I see it as a plain respect to provide people who do not know English with means to still be able to participate in wikimedia movement in global scope. Is it that hard to learn how to at least not mess with that couple of tags so that translators could make their work of helping other fellow wikimedians? I do not check your contributions, perhaps your edits are not as bad as you described them, but then could you please not call people to do bad stuff? --Base (talk) 12:22, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I did not say that I was "messing with the tags". I just alter the English text when necessary and try to avoid the translation tags as far as possible. If my changes somehow mess up the several translations, I simply cannot be held responsible for that. If a section has to be moved within the page and it has translation tags, I'd probably either move the tags or leave them be. If that creates additional work for tranlators, then so be it. Metawiki already asks thousands of pages to be translated in an ever-increasing pace. I was not advocating deliberately breaking stuff. Plese understand what I'm saying and what is the original point what I was trying to get across. --Pxos (talk) 17:54, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Cornelius, when I'm actively working on a page, I've been putting a large note at the top that asks translation admins to not mark it for translation. I copied this idea from Tech/News/Next. When I'm done, I fix all the translation tags.

If you're doing a complete re-write, then you can extract the wikitext to remove 100% of translation tags. Try this link, except change the URL to point to your page: https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Help:VisualEditor/User_guide/en&action=edit Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:50, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Whatamidoing (WMF)! --Cornelius Kibelka (WMDE) (talk) 11:10, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Babel template editing

Hi! The problem is that some babel templates, as these, listed here, have the same words in all language fluency level or just show it in English and not in the language of origin (e.g. templates for Ancient Egyptian, some died, not popular or created languages). I wish to fix it. Where can I edit the Babel templates, which show the language fluency? --Ochilov (talk) 08:36, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

I have noticed that too. I believe it is something to be reported on Phabricator best. --Base (talk) 12:51, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

I think that you want to talk to User:Siebrand about that. As far as I can tell, Siebrand knows everything about translations. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:37, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

On translatewiki. Matiia (talk) 20:04, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

@Matiia:, thank you very much! --Ochilov (talk) 05:28, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Meaning of k/c/n

What is the meaning of “k/c/n,” as seen in {{Misc requests}}? I presume this abbreviation means something to Meta regulars, but I can’t find anything useful in a site search. Thanks. —67.14.236.50 00:31, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

See here I'm guessing it means "keep/change/neutral". —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:50, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

That makes sense. Is it explained anywhere? Shouldn’t it be? —67.14.236.50 01:56, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Welcoming

Hi dear fellows, in my opinion is not a good idea to welcome all users, vandals and spammers especially, I think welcoming should not be an automatic process, it would be done manually only to users who demonstrate good intentions, as occurs on other wikis.--Syum90 (talk) 09:44, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Support I fully agree with Syum90's request. Alan ^(talk) 10:07, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

 Oppose Welcoming always contains many useful links. --Ochilov (talk) 13:20, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

@Ochilov: This automated system generates amounts of unuseful pages, I've deleted several of them this morning.--Syum90 (talk) 14:30, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

ISECHIKA or locked user case... Comment Too fast to Add welcome message[1]. I think to set a time interval is the best way for us to solve this problem. For example, welcoming bot waits for up to one day to add welcome message, and if the user was set locked or blocked until it added welcome message, welcoming bot disables an automatic process like this. --Infinite0694 (Talk) 14:05, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Infinite0694, this one sounds reasonable :) --Ochilov (talk) 14:55, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I prefer this process to be done manually, but at least this proposal is quite better than the current one.--Syum90 (talk) 15:00, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Strong support deactivating automatic welcomes - It just generates large ammounts of rubbish and it is not useful IMHO. And also generates privacy/suppression policy violations when the user created is suppressed. You have later to search for user/usertalk pages and go suppressing them manually. You can ask oversighters (such as @Barras) that I regularly encounter and forward for suppression such kind of abusive account name user talk pages; and franckly I'm tired. Most account creation nowadays are not real users, but spambots. I think it's better to manually welcome users. Best regards. —MarcoAurelio 15:35, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

2011 discussion about enabling it here. The discussion started because new users didn't know what Meta-Wiki was about and there was a need to welcome them and inform them about the site. But now that we've Echo which also adds a welcome notification on sign-up (I think it doesn't for autocreated accounts but we could probably get that enabled here). We can link it to Meta page (or create a new shorter, user-friendly welcome page) and consider that enough for a welcome message. --Glaisher (talk) 15:51, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Strong support per MA above. I can confirm that I regularly have to suppress stuff created by that useless welcome bot. It creates simply more work and I don't even want to know how many pages are out there that are not suppressed but should be suppressed. -Barras talk 17:43, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Support as well. We don't need a bot to welcome users who have just created their account as a mean to vandalize, as said above by others; it makes everything just harder. --Stryn (talk) 18:57, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Support per everything that is already explained by the supporters. I think it is best to avoid that amount of work and time. Allan Aguilar (talk) 19:03, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

opinion - can't there be some threshold for welcoming. Like to autowelcome only those users who have made N edits and are still not banned/locked after M days and haven't got welcomed by a human being yet. I would believe it would do much more sense that way. If that is not possible, then I Support disabling autowelcome. --Base (talk) 19:05, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Support as I see the situation --Ochilov (talk) 02:28, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I have issued a block on the extension, given than in less than 24 hours we've got far more consensus to stop the system than we got in 2011 to enable it. It can be unblocked if the consensus changes. —MarcoAurelio 07:03, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Support in accordance with the previously mentioned reasons above. AustinHammond (talk)

Support I fully Support it.--Infinite0694 (Talk) 14:21, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Support --Steinsplitter (talk) 15:08, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Wikidata data access is here

Hey folks :)

I wanted to let you know that we enabled access to the data on Wikidata for you. This means you can now access data like the number of inhabitants of a city or get a link to a picture for a famous person and much more. You can access the data in two ways - via a parser function and via Lua. How to use it:

• Parser function: {{#property:P36|from=Q183}} to get the capital (Property:P36) from the item about Germany (Q183)
• Lua: see mw:Extension:Wikibase Client/Lua

I hope this will help you do great things here. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. Good places to start are d:Wikidata:Meta-Wiki and d:Wikidata:Project chat.

Cheers --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 19:14, 16 December 2015 (UTC)