Plane crashes in to the word trade center.
September 11, 2001 5:58 AM Subscribe
Plane crashes in to the word trade center. Apologies for not linking to anything besides the main CNN page but there are no full stories on this yet. The plane crashed into the building about six minutes ago, from what the TV is saying. We are about sixty blocks north and we can see the smoke over the skyline.
I'm looking at it right now (we can see the WTC from our office) and it looks like a second plane just hit the second tower (we just saw it happen). I can't confirm it but it's absolutely crazy...
posted by TNLNYC at 6:06 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
posted by TNLNYC at 6:06 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
I was just watching the news report, and saw a second plane zoom right on in and hit the East Tower.
posted by iceberg273 at 6:11 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
posted by iceberg273 at 6:11 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
Just saw that too. Amazing. You see the plane impact one side, and then a fireball and debris shoot out of the other.
posted by yupislyr at 6:12 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
posted by yupislyr at 6:12 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
CNN is now reporting a second plane crash - one is a disaster, but two seems like it must be an attack to me.
If it is an attack:
1. Who is responsible?
2. Why did they strike when people were probably still arriving rather than 10 or 11 in the morning?
3. What will the U.S. response be?
4. Is anyone ever going to enter those buildings again?
posted by mikewas at 6:14 AM on September 11, 2001 [8 favorites]
If it is an attack:
1. Who is responsible?
2. Why did they strike when people were probably still arriving rather than 10 or 11 in the morning?
3. What will the U.S. response be?
4. Is anyone ever going to enter those buildings again?
posted by mikewas at 6:14 AM on September 11, 2001 [8 favorites]
This was no accident. No way.
posted by ColdChef at 6:15 AM on September 11, 2001 [6 favorites]
posted by ColdChef at 6:15 AM on September 11, 2001 [6 favorites]
Wait a second, TWO? Two?
Was it on purpose?
posted by jragon at 6:16 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Was it on purpose?
posted by jragon at 6:16 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
i'd have to guess this was a terrorist attack. too bad the missile defense shield wasn't ready to catch those rogue pilots in action.
posted by dogmatic at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by dogmatic at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
There's speculation that one of the planes was hijacked before it impacted the tower. It gets worse every second.
posted by yupislyr at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by yupislyr at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
well, no one is saying anything, but it appears to be highly likely.
posted by karen at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by karen at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2001
My dad saw it. He was on the ferry going over to the Dow Jones offices across the street. He was there when the bombing happened years back. I hope he gets home. shit shit shit shit
posted by adampsyche at 6:18 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
posted by adampsyche at 6:18 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
Definitely not an accident.
posted by canoeguide at 6:18 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by canoeguide at 6:18 AM on September 11, 2001
All news websites seem to be getting nailed but apparently all key buildings in NYC are being evacuated and there's a report that the FBI Is investigating about the possibility of one of the planes being hijacked before it impacted the WTC.
posted by yupislyr at 6:23 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by yupislyr at 6:23 AM on September 11, 2001
Same from here : netstorm....
Some detail here and quicker : http://www.smh.com.au/news/0109/11//world/world99.html
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:24 AM on September 11, 2001
Some detail here and quicker : http://www.smh.com.au/news/0109/11//world/world99.html
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:24 AM on September 11, 2001
Sky News is still accessible and there are some shocking pictures. Blimey!
posted by Mr Ed at 6:25 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by Mr Ed at 6:25 AM on September 11, 2001
There was a mention of a plane hijacking, that maybe one of the planes-the second?- was a hijacked passenger plane.
posted by bison at 6:26 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by bison at 6:26 AM on September 11, 2001
I'm not normally a praying man. But I'm praying right now...
posted by ColdChef at 6:27 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by ColdChef at 6:27 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Somebody with access to a TV please post details!! There's no getting into any of the news sites ----
A plane impacted the top of one of the WTC towers at about 10 minutes to nine this morning. While everybody was still trying to figure out was was going on, a second plane flew in a straight line into the second tower and impacted it at a height a little lower than the first collision. Both building are clearly on fire. The government has apparently received no warning or claims of an attack. The president will address the nation shortly.
posted by iceberg273 at 6:28 AM on September 11, 2001
A plane impacted the top of one of the WTC towers at about 10 minutes to nine this morning. While everybody was still trying to figure out was was going on, a second plane flew in a straight line into the second tower and impacted it at a height a little lower than the first collision. Both building are clearly on fire. The government has apparently received no warning or claims of an attack. The president will address the nation shortly.
posted by iceberg273 at 6:28 AM on September 11, 2001
the phonelines here are going crazy, ours just died. i can here ambulances heading downtown. the TV just said that FBI is already investigating. they're talking about a possible hijacking. bush is also supposedly going to talk soon. Tv just said that US officially declared this to be an act of terrorism.
posted by karen at 6:28 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by karen at 6:28 AM on September 11, 2001
Holy fuck. It was a commercial jetliner according to MSNBC
posted by owillis at 6:31 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 6:31 AM on September 11, 2001
The second plane is an American Airlines 767 that took off from Boston, CNN is reporting.
posted by rcade at 6:32 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by rcade at 6:32 AM on September 11, 2001
NY1 reports that the airports, tunnels and incoming traffic into Manhattan has been shutdown.
posted by riffola at 6:32 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 6:32 AM on September 11, 2001
ABC News apparently has reported that an American Airlines plane was hijacked earlier today - that could be speculation, however.
posted by pjhagop at 6:33 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by pjhagop at 6:33 AM on September 11, 2001
NPR just reported that Bush has vowed to "hunt down those terrorists." That's not a joke.
posted by ColdChef at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
posted by ColdChef at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
sky news is now reporting that two United Airlines passenger planes, one thought to be a 737, were hijacked shortly before the attack.
posted by dogmatic at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by dogmatic at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001
All the phones to downtown and the 917 area code are locked up. I'm trying to find out some more information.
I just moved to midtown last week - and my friend's company just was dissolved and he moved out of tower 2 (on the 50th floor) about a month ago.
I'll try and get in touch with someone downtown.
posted by rich at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I just moved to midtown last week - and my friend's company just was dissolved and he moved out of tower 2 (on the 50th floor) about a month ago.
I'll try and get in touch with someone downtown.
posted by rich at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
My entire workplace witnessed the 2nd plane crash. It looks like the first one hit near the top of the building with the anntenna. The second circled around and hit the other building somewhere near the middle.
posted by Cavatica at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by Cavatica at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001
going crazy here....please please post as much detail as you can. CNBC Asia is giving minimal coverage, and i can't access any of the major news sites...
posted by netsirk at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by netsirk at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001
President is on his way back to Washington, all his events are canceled today.
posted by owillis at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 6:34 AM on September 11, 2001
All trading has been postponed 'indefinately' on Wall Street.
posted by fatbaq at 6:36 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by fatbaq at 6:36 AM on September 11, 2001
looks like the top 20 or so stories of both buildings. the base of the buildings should be ok, asboth buildings are designed for massive disruptions simliar to this. nothing doing, though, for those top floors. impact itself is bad enough, but the explosion and resulting fire will be horrible.
posted by mich9139 at 6:36 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by mich9139 at 6:36 AM on September 11, 2001
I just heard that they were both hijacked commercial planes. Anybody else hear this? That is horrible beyond imagination.
posted by Doug at 6:37 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by Doug at 6:37 AM on September 11, 2001
CNN: American Airlines 767 hijacked from Boston was one of the planes
posted by owillis at 6:37 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 6:37 AM on September 11, 2001
From Korea I got through to robots.cnn.com
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:38 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:38 AM on September 11, 2001
Ok, I got through to downtown but no one is picking up.
I think they may have started evacuating the whole area.
posted by rich at 6:38 AM on September 11, 2001
I think they may have started evacuating the whole area.
posted by rich at 6:38 AM on September 11, 2001
they announced that they know one of the planes was a 767 american airlines leaving from boston.
posted by karen at 6:39 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by karen at 6:39 AM on September 11, 2001
I heard that one of the planes was hijacked from Boston.
posted by jragon at 6:39 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by jragon at 6:39 AM on September 11, 2001
Bridges & tunnels are closed, subway shut down, all three NYC airports shut down.
posted by muckster at 6:41 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by muckster at 6:41 AM on September 11, 2001
I was on the "E" Train, which heads straight into the WTC, only seconds before the crash, when I decided to switch to the "R" Train (which avoids the WTC). I would probably still be stuck on the train now, and for hours afterwards. (And be happy
I'm on 56th Street and Madison (far from the WTC) and the sirens and ambulances heading downtown are constant. At least 20% of my colleagues have friends or relatives who work down there; those who haven't already left are panicked.
posted by MattD at 6:43 AM on September 11, 2001
I'm on 56th Street and Madison (far from the WTC) and the sirens and ambulances heading downtown are constant. At least 20% of my colleagues have friends or relatives who work down there; those who haven't already left are panicked.
posted by MattD at 6:43 AM on September 11, 2001
Palestinian group "Democratic Front for Liberation of Palestine" claims responsibility. Possibly both planes hijacked, there may be a third (I'm watching the BBC). Brian Hanrahan is saying "be cautious about all claims for responsibility. There's other shots coming in now of another building burning in Washington. Not even the reporters know what that's about.
posted by jfinnis at 6:44 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by jfinnis at 6:44 AM on September 11, 2001
Some sort of bombing at the pentagon just occured.
posted by donkeymon at 6:45 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by donkeymon at 6:45 AM on September 11, 2001
The Whitehouse has been evacuated.
posted by iceberg273 at 6:46 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by iceberg273 at 6:46 AM on September 11, 2001
Some sort of bombing at the pentagon just occured.
posted by donkeymon at 6:47 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by donkeymon at 6:47 AM on September 11, 2001
It was a plane at the pentagon too..... shiiiit, I don't want to go to downtown today (in Atlanta, but still......)
posted by kidsplate at 6:50 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by kidsplate at 6:50 AM on September 11, 2001
washington mall fire, supposedly a plane crash into the pentagon...
why am i getting the feeling that we're in a movie that's telling the end of this country...?
posted by mabelcolby at 6:50 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
why am i getting the feeling that we're in a movie that's telling the end of this country...?
posted by mabelcolby at 6:50 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
This is going to be a big turning point in the history and character of this country, I think.
posted by Doug at 6:51 AM on September 11, 2001 [207 favorites]
posted by Doug at 6:51 AM on September 11, 2001 [207 favorites]
Ok, I'm through to downtown.
Rebar is falling all over, there are more ambulances than you can count. About 6 floors in each building have been taken out. All buildings sides facing the towers are closed off.
they just hit the pentagon
posted by rich at 6:51 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
Rebar is falling all over, there are more ambulances than you can count. About 6 floors in each building have been taken out. All buildings sides facing the towers are closed off.
they just hit the pentagon
posted by rich at 6:51 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
Oh, man... I am so sick. This is the day everything changed. I was just there the day before yesterday, the World Trade Center.
There are so many people there....
posted by anildash at 6:52 AM on September 11, 2001 [5 favorites]
There are so many people there....
posted by anildash at 6:52 AM on September 11, 2001 [5 favorites]
wow. 3 coordinated hijackings with suicide crashes. and i wanted to fly down to disney world. definately reconsidering that. wonder what the next target would be? hope everything is ok on the other coast. philly isn't a strategic target, is it?
posted by mich9139 at 6:52 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by mich9139 at 6:52 AM on September 11, 2001
Mocata, way to turn this around into a "Bush is stupid" thread.
Although I can't see it at work, there is apparently a video feed here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1535000/video/_1537496_crash14_loyn_vi.ram
posted by mikewas at 6:53 AM on September 11, 2001
Although I can't see it at work, there is apparently a video feed here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1535000/video/_1537496_crash14_loyn_vi.ram
posted by mikewas at 6:53 AM on September 11, 2001
My dad is across the street. He was talking to my mom after the first one on the cell phone. When the second hit, the phone went dead. shit shit shit shit shit shit
my dads friend is an msnbc reporter. he said that people are jumping out of the fucking building like 80 floors up and landing right in front of him.
posted by adampsyche at 6:55 AM on September 11, 2001
my dads friend is an msnbc reporter. he said that people are jumping out of the fucking building like 80 floors up and landing right in front of him.
posted by adampsyche at 6:55 AM on September 11, 2001
I have started a Yahoo Groups mailing list on the WTC Attack to take some of the load off MetaFilter as we discuss this unfathomable incident. There's now reports of a fire at the Pentagon and another at the Washington Mall. The White House is being evacuated.
posted by rcade at 6:57 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by rcade at 6:57 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
adam, i am so glad your dad is okay. we have so many friends who work in that building. i can't even think straight. and there seems to be another explosion in the world trade centers.
posted by karen at 7:03 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by karen at 7:03 AM on September 11, 2001
I guess... the US has bombed civilians on numerous occasions... this is what it feels like :(
Adam, hope everything is ok... could be there's a cellphone tower on the building?
posted by kidsplate at 7:03 AM on September 11, 2001
Adam, hope everything is ok... could be there's a cellphone tower on the building?
posted by kidsplate at 7:03 AM on September 11, 2001
radio is reporting the second tower has collapsed
posted by NortonDC at 7:04 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by NortonDC at 7:04 AM on September 11, 2001
i'm glad that your dad is ok, adampsyche. hopefully he'll get the f out of the city as soon as they open it up. he's most likely fine, with the cell towers either damaged or severly overloaded. i'd go with a little of both.
posted by mich9139 at 7:04 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by mich9139 at 7:04 AM on September 11, 2001
a rumour that the Iraqis have hijacked 7 passenger planes around the world and are planning more of this. this is the rumour here, I'm in Paris, has anyone else heard anything like this?
posted by hazyjane at 7:07 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by hazyjane at 7:07 AM on September 11, 2001
This is a direct link to the video of the second crash, from a Greek news site. It is still working, but I don't know for how long....
http://video.flash.gr/world/cosmosl/video11.asf
posted by talos at 7:08 AM on September 11, 2001
http://video.flash.gr/world/cosmosl/video11.asf
posted by talos at 7:08 AM on September 11, 2001
The top of one of the trade towers has collapsed into the street.
posted by ColdChef at 7:09 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by ColdChef at 7:09 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Servers at CSPAN are still carrying live feeds. The audio is call-in, but the video is live on-the-scene.
posted by ewagoner at 7:13 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by ewagoner at 7:13 AM on September 11, 2001
Glad your dad's OK, Adam. My thoughts are with you guys on the other side of the pond. Tony Blair's on TV now saying much the same thing.
posted by jfinnis at 7:14 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by jfinnis at 7:14 AM on September 11, 2001
ABC news is reporting: the palestinian liberation front org tha twas originally eported to have claimed responsibility says that they are not responsible for this. It was an anonymous call that tipped off the news folks originally. Their official word is that they are not responsible.
The plane crash (in the pentago, i think) was flight 11 from boston. american airlines.
posted by bison at 7:27 AM on September 11, 2001
I'm in midtown --- looking straight down fifth Ave all you can see is a column of smoke where the collapsed tower is.
My thoughts are with everyone who has friends and family down there. It's such a huge set of buildings that the number of people involved is frightening to think about.
posted by BT at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
My thoughts are with everyone who has friends and family down there. It's such a huge set of buildings that the number of people involved is frightening to think about.
posted by BT at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Only one World Trade Center building is left standing:
posted by yarf at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by yarf at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2001
Dad got the last ferry out of the city. thanks for the well wished. i cant think. this is so fucked up. we dont even know what happened to the goddamn tower. this day will be a turning point.
posted by adampsyche at 7:31 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by adampsyche at 7:31 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
HOLY!
The other trade tower just collapsed. they are both gone now.
posted by bison at 7:31 AM on September 11, 2001
as of now, portions of both of the world trade centers are down.
posted by karen at 7:32 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by karen at 7:32 AM on September 11, 2001
hopefully our overseas embassies are under lock-down. also, i really hope that additional us sky traffic is accounted for. i would hate to see us sky traffic shot down for a lack of communication. if there really were 7 planes hijacked today, this could get even worse. i would imagine that the group responsible for this would concentrate their efforts in the us, but hopefully this is it for now. can't imagine where a follow-up strike would be, or if there even would be one. i'm just glad tha i don't work in a major metro.
posted by mich9139 at 7:34 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by mich9139 at 7:34 AM on September 11, 2001
new news...there was a car bomb outside the state department.
posted by dogmatic at 7:36 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by dogmatic at 7:36 AM on September 11, 2001
The 2nd tower is gone. F*ck, the WORLD TRADE CENTER IS GONE.
ABC news is saying a car bomb has also gone off at the State Department.
posted by Spirit_VW at 7:37 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
ABC news is saying a car bomb has also gone off at the State Department.
posted by Spirit_VW at 7:37 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
c-span is training their live cam on the capitol, waiting for the next hijacked plane to hit it.
posted by mich9139 at 7:38 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by mich9139 at 7:38 AM on September 11, 2001
cnn just announced that part of the pentagon collapsed.
posted by karen at 7:40 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by karen at 7:40 AM on September 11, 2001
Sirens still blaring all across the upper east side. All bridges and tunnels closed, though, so nowhere to go for outer borough folks like me.
People crying, screaming in the hallways. Tons of my colleagues have family in Israel, too, they are certain that this bodes poorly for them.
posted by MattD at 7:43 AM on September 11, 2001
People crying, screaming in the hallways. Tons of my colleagues have family in Israel, too, they are certain that this bodes poorly for them.
posted by MattD at 7:43 AM on September 11, 2001
A large plane has just crashed outside of Pittsburgh. I don't know if it's related...
posted by arco at 7:43 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by arco at 7:43 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
ABC is denying the carbomb at the state dept. they have a producer there who said that there was no evidence of a carbomb there. powell is on his way back to the US from enroute to Lima, Peru
posted by bison at 7:45 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by bison at 7:45 AM on September 11, 2001
The radio just said that planes that were intended to go to US cities today are being diverted to Canada.
My thoughts and prayers to all you who are in or have family and loved ones in NYC.
posted by melissa at 7:45 AM on September 11, 2001
My thoughts and prayers to all you who are in or have family and loved ones in NYC.
posted by melissa at 7:45 AM on September 11, 2001
other hikjacked plane: CNN is saying that is in on the way to Washington, but there is no official word from FAA about it. The military is flying cover over all of DC.
posted by bison at 7:49 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by bison at 7:49 AM on September 11, 2001
One way or the other we are going to find out if George Bush has any ____. I don't pray much, but I think this calls for a pray.
posted by bjgeiger at 7:50 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by bjgeiger at 7:50 AM on September 11, 2001
arco, supposedly the plane was shot down, it was one of the hijacked ones.
posted by karen at 7:50 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by karen at 7:50 AM on September 11, 2001
Sorry about the multiple posts (internet problems). The plane that crashed outside Pgh WAS hijacked, apparently coming out of Cleveland. It crashed in Somerset county, not a highly populated area. It's a 747 (I think). No further information. (THis is from Pgh news channel 11.)
posted by arco at 7:53 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by arco at 7:53 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
wow. c-span just lets anyone talk on the air, don't they? people are condeming foreigners left and right, and calling for immediate retribution. people are also blaming this on bush, calling him a screw-up, and trying to link this to a lack of religious beliefs.
posted by mich9139 at 8:02 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by mich9139 at 8:02 AM on September 11, 2001
everyone, please keep posting news as it arrives!
All major news sites are down - and I've got no radio or TV here!
posted by poncho at 8:02 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
All major news sites are down - and I've got no radio or TV here!
posted by poncho at 8:02 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
The plane crashed about 11 miles south of Jennerstown, PA which isn't a huge town, but isn't small. There's a race track (auto racing) there. It was a 747 (no word on which airline yet, on local Pittsburgh news) and as reported, was Cleveland --> Chicago bound but also hijacked. No word on whether there is any possibility of survivors, but that is the central PA mountain area (ski resorts, etc.) so the terrain is probably working against them. Downtown Pittsburgh has essentially emptied out, the USX Tower (our tallest building) and the government buildings have been evacuated.
Anyone else feeling the need to walk away from the news/computer?
posted by Dreama at 8:08 AM on September 11, 2001
Anyone else feeling the need to walk away from the news/computer?
posted by Dreama at 8:08 AM on September 11, 2001
No. I'm in New York fucking GLUED to my computer. There aren't any TVs here at the office so we're huddling around the radio and I'm getting my news from MeFi in between answering panicked phone calls from friends, family, and business contacts.
posted by Pyth at 8:14 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by Pyth at 8:14 AM on September 11, 2001
Link to last American Airlines status page showing fateful Flight 11 from Boston to LAX
posted by yarf at 8:14 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by yarf at 8:14 AM on September 11, 2001
I'm feeling the need to leave the country, myself.
CNN reported that the plane that downed in PA actually originated out of Chicago.
No words. No words.
posted by hijinx at 8:14 AM on September 11, 2001
CNN reported that the plane that downed in PA actually originated out of Chicago.
No words. No words.
posted by hijinx at 8:14 AM on September 11, 2001
a crash out there might have been caused by the plane being shot down. i really hope that all planes in the sky reply to requests to re-route immediately to avoid a horrendous mistake.
posted by mich9139 at 8:16 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by mich9139 at 8:16 AM on September 11, 2001
amy, if you are reading this, you made a comment on my web site wanting to talk to me and my dad. i got it and sent you an email, but it got bounced back to me. not surprising that mail servers would be out. if you want you can call at 267 304-5940 (i normally would never post this on a web site...)
posted by adampsyche at 8:19 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by adampsyche at 8:19 AM on September 11, 2001
Evacuate lower Manhattan? With the subways shut down? PATH goes through WTC's basement -- or did. Nobody's getting home to New Jersey anytime soon. I can't imagine what the jams at the tunnels are like ... and the fear of people going through them.
Christ. The Chicago-Cleveland flight could have passed through the airspace of the air-traffic controller I know. (He called his gf to tell him they were landing everything, and she called me to wake me up.)
posted by dhartung at 8:21 AM on September 11, 2001
Christ. The Chicago-Cleveland flight could have passed through the airspace of the air-traffic controller I know. (He called his gf to tell him they were landing everything, and she called me to wake me up.)
posted by dhartung at 8:21 AM on September 11, 2001
United Airlines in Denial
Homepage timeline of the Washington Post:
Washington Post Early, Washington Post Middle, Washington Post Late
MSNBC -- Microsoft IIS Can't Handle Load
posted by yarf at 8:25 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Homepage timeline of the Washington Post:
Washington Post Early, Washington Post Middle, Washington Post Late
MSNBC -- Microsoft IIS Can't Handle Load
posted by yarf at 8:25 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
cnn isn't reporting anything new anymore. people have been to stay at home unless they're downtown were they're being evacuated out of workplaces and homes and being asked to move uptown. and yes the subways and tunnels are shut down.
posted by karen at 8:27 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by karen at 8:27 AM on September 11, 2001
I heard from a friend on a bus outside the building when the first plane hit. The driver jumped out, and the passangers hid under the seats to avoid falling debris. As she ran away, she looked back and saw what looked like hundreds of people jumping from the building.
I have another friend who works in the world financial center, and can't get in touch. Anyone know if that building was damaged? Ash is falling near me.
posted by Doug at 8:28 AM on September 11, 2001
I have another friend who works in the world financial center, and can't get in touch. Anyone know if that building was damaged? Ash is falling near me.
posted by Doug at 8:28 AM on September 11, 2001
Here's a question: is there widespread celebrating in the West Bank?
posted by ParisParamus at 8:30 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 8:30 AM on September 11, 2001
I am in Europe and cannot get any lines into the US. All of you with family abroad, let them know you're OK.
posted by costas at 8:34 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by costas at 8:34 AM on September 11, 2001
Except for Channel 2, all of NYC's TV is down (no more tower)
posted by ParisParamus at 8:35 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 8:35 AM on September 11, 2001
Here's a question: is there widespread celebrating in the West Bank?
Paris, that comment is completely inappropriate, especially now. I'm not surprised that you'd use the deaths of thousands of people to further your agenda, but take your politics somewhere else.
posted by anapestic at 8:36 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
Paris, that comment is completely inappropriate, especially now. I'm not surprised that you'd use the deaths of thousands of people to further your agenda, but take your politics somewhere else.
posted by anapestic at 8:36 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
There's going to be widespread something in the West Bank soon.
posted by adampsyche at 8:37 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by adampsyche at 8:37 AM on September 11, 2001
The mayor of Cleveland has announced that an airplane containing 200 passengers has been sequestered at the Cleveland Hopkins Airport. They believe there may be a bomb on the plane. Very early to tell exactly what is going on.
posted by turaho at 8:37 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by turaho at 8:37 AM on September 11, 2001
Much fear here in Ottawa: Parliament Hill is closed, and while there are no official evacuations of Canadian government buildings from what I know the director here has told people to go home if they want. One fellow next to me was going to stay, but his wife called and told him, "I'd rather have you home right now."
I am shaking. There are no words.
posted by tranquileye at 8:44 AM on September 11, 2001
I am shaking. There are no words.
posted by tranquileye at 8:44 AM on September 11, 2001
Someone on a mailing list I'm on says a plane hit Camp David. She didn't mention a source.
posted by prolific at 8:48 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by prolific at 8:48 AM on September 11, 2001
if you're trying to get through to loved ones, try using email. the phone lines are not working well.
posted by karen at 8:49 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by karen at 8:49 AM on September 11, 2001
dhartung: the evacuation of Lower Manhattan is happening now -- by foot. Everyone is to move north of Canal.
It's true: there are no words.
posted by BT at 8:50 AM on September 11, 2001
It's true: there are no words.
posted by BT at 8:50 AM on September 11, 2001
I didn't think ParisParamus' question was inappropriate. Channel 2 did in fact report celebrations.
posted by muckster at 8:53 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by muckster at 8:53 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Here's a question: is there widespread celebrating in the West Bank?
FWIW, I've heard that the BBC is reporting that "thousands" are celebrating in Palestine.
posted by mikewas at 8:56 AM on September 11, 2001
FWIW, I've heard that the BBC is reporting that "thousands" are celebrating in Palestine.
posted by mikewas at 8:56 AM on September 11, 2001
The New York City primary has been postponed. AT & T has shut down all operations in Manhattan. Schools are still open -- this makes sense, if you think about it.
posted by BT at 9:08 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by BT at 9:08 AM on September 11, 2001
I heard that a plane in Cleveland was hijacked, or attempted, and now sits on the tarmac evacuated. Fighter jets are flying over the capitol with orders to shoot.
posted by mecran01 at 9:08 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by mecran01 at 9:08 AM on September 11, 2001
CNN says the border between US and Mexico has been closed, and NATO offices in Brussels are also closed.
posted by jnthnjng at 9:09 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by jnthnjng at 9:09 AM on September 11, 2001
Just heard over live from England, what a nightmare, I'm glad from what I've read that everyone's ok out there. But hear the news is showing on all channels the replay is sickening to watch over again and again. I gather that there's complete chaos and a kind of shut down of transportation systems and bridges in NYC. Additionally there's a confusion hear about another air craft that could have something to do with the terrorist attacks is it a commerical airline or not?.
posted by asfaras at 9:10 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by asfaras at 9:10 AM on September 11, 2001
Naive question: why close the border with Mexico???
KPH
posted by kphaley454 at 9:11 AM on September 11, 2001
KPH
posted by kphaley454 at 9:11 AM on September 11, 2001
Jason of Queso.Com, a NY Area doctor is sending out a request for anyone in the area who is capable of doing so to donate blood. There's going to be thousands and thousands of people who need assistance, and if you can donate, do it.
posted by cCranium at 9:13 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by cCranium at 9:13 AM on September 11, 2001
Paranoia. According to some people I know in Canada, the Canadian border is closed too. No confirmation on that, though.
posted by truex at 9:14 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by truex at 9:14 AM on September 11, 2001
If anyone needs to make a phone call in NYC to tell someone they're ok, you can e-mail me (askparisparamus@aol.com) I seem to have local phone service within NYC
posted by ParisParamus at 9:17 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 9:17 AM on September 11, 2001
FWIW, I've heard that the BBC is reporting that "thousands" are celebrating in Palestine.
Haven't heard this on the BBC or CNN myself. Please people, don't pass on second hand information -- if you haven't heard it yourself, don't pass it on.
posted by lia at 9:18 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
Haven't heard this on the BBC or CNN myself. Please people, don't pass on second hand information -- if you haven't heard it yourself, don't pass it on.
posted by lia at 9:18 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
ABC just estimated that there have been 500 deaths from passengers alone and that 200 firemen are unaccounted for.
posted by ttrendel at 9:20 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by ttrendel at 9:20 AM on September 11, 2001
KPH: in a situation like this I would think you close all airports, borders and any mode of transportation that can be used as a point of entry or escape... or for that matter a weapon.
A modern day Pearl Harbor...
posted by venegas at 9:21 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
A modern day Pearl Harbor...
posted by venegas at 9:21 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I hear jets over Brooklyn = airforce
posted by ParisParamus at 9:21 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 9:21 AM on September 11, 2001
call me a hippy, but this seems like a great day for thousands to walk en masse through every town USA, in peace.
posted by jfc at 9:22 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by jfc at 9:22 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I heard that one of the United planes was from Newark to San Francisco. I took the last United flight out of Newark last night to Chicago. Yikes. This is definitely a sad day in history.
Newt gingrich and other Republicans are being quoted as likeing it to a 21st Century Pearl Harbor.
posted by Stretch at 9:26 AM on September 11, 2001
Newt gingrich and other Republicans are being quoted as likeing it to a 21st Century Pearl Harbor.
posted by Stretch at 9:26 AM on September 11, 2001
The BBC is reporting that all Canadian airports are closed. They didn't say anything about the border.
posted by SuperBreakout at 9:26 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by SuperBreakout at 9:26 AM on September 11, 2001
quote from the BBC site:
But Palestinians in refugee camps in Lebanon fired shots into the air with joy at the news of the attacks, the AFP news agency reported.
However, Arafat is publicly condemning the attacks.
posted by hazyjane at 9:27 AM on September 11, 2001
But Palestinians in refugee camps in Lebanon fired shots into the air with joy at the news of the attacks, the AFP news agency reported.
However, Arafat is publicly condemning the attacks.
posted by hazyjane at 9:27 AM on September 11, 2001
quote from the BBC site:
But Palestinians in refugee camps in Lebanon fired shots into the air with joy at the news of the attacks, the AFP news agency reported.
However, Arafat is publicly condemning the attacks.
posted by hazyjane at 9:31 AM on September 11, 2001
But Palestinians in refugee camps in Lebanon fired shots into the air with joy at the news of the attacks, the AFP news agency reported.
However, Arafat is publicly condemning the attacks.
posted by hazyjane at 9:31 AM on September 11, 2001
I beg to differ re "insensitivity" I saw the whole thing from the F Train (which is overhead) here in Brooklyn. My hands are shaking. My comment was appropriate given past reactions to terrorism and the likely origin of this disgusting act. Get real, people. Be aware of who's a friend of America and who hates us. WAKE UP.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:32 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by ParisParamus at 9:32 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Someone on the radio said that today is the anniversary of one of the Camp David peace accords. True?
posted by straight at 9:38 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by straight at 9:38 AM on September 11, 2001
(UK) my company email just advised that all phone lines into the US are closed as part of anti-terrorist measures.
posted by RichLyon at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by RichLyon at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2001
IT is the anniversary of the Camp David peace accord signed by Sadat and Begin.
posted by Stretch at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by Stretch at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2001
Does anybody know how to determine what's going on throughout the Web at present? I heard something about 80% of something being down? Maybe the statistic referred to new sites . . . I can still find stuff about Star Trek, dip recipes, etc. But a lot seems gone or slow. The CNN web site now also appears to be back up. Anyone an expert?
posted by scissorfish at 9:46 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by scissorfish at 9:46 AM on September 11, 2001
NO - that was September 17, 1978 --
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_173000/173277.stm
posted by mimi at 9:47 AM on September 11, 2001
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_173000/173277.stm
posted by mimi at 9:47 AM on September 11, 2001
``I emphasize that the story released on Abu Dhabi TV by an anonymous person is totally incorrect,'' Tayseer Khaled, a senior official from the DFLP politburo in the Palestinian territories, told Reuters.
``The DFLP is against hijacking planes and against endangering the lives of civilians who are not connected with the struggle of this region,'' he said.
posted by mecran01 at 9:47 AM on September 11, 2001
``The DFLP is against hijacking planes and against endangering the lives of civilians who are not connected with the struggle of this region,'' he said.
posted by mecran01 at 9:47 AM on September 11, 2001
Palestinians in West Bank celebrate attacks on U.S.
posted by idiolect at 9:52 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by idiolect at 9:52 AM on September 11, 2001
Palestinians dancing in the street, celebrating. Regardless of your world view, cheering this is barbaric. I'd like to see us wipe them off the face of the earth.
posted by owillis at 9:57 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 9:57 AM on September 11, 2001
For the record: I heard on the radio this morning (before the whole travesty began) that today is National 911 Day.
posted by darukaru at 9:59 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by darukaru at 9:59 AM on September 11, 2001
Here is some rooftop amateur video of the tower collapse taken by my friend who lives in Chelsea. It's about 1.8MB in size. I live in the East Village myself, and am seeing out my window quite a few dust-covered people evacuating up second avenue still.
If you live in the area, please go to the nearest hospital and donate blood.
posted by matthew at 9:59 AM on September 11, 2001
If you live in the area, please go to the nearest hospital and donate blood.
posted by matthew at 9:59 AM on September 11, 2001
idiolect, thanks for that link. Just one more point. If a bunch of assholes here or in Europe or elsewhere in the West were celebrating something of this nature and magnitude on some street corner. They would be quickly confronted by others; told to stop; and probably beat up (hopefully). They would be ostricized(sp). None of which will happen in the West Bank. And will Yasser Arafat say the celebrating is disgusting? Certainly not. Just remember that. Over and out.
posted by ParisParamus at 10:03 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 10:03 AM on September 11, 2001
anyone could have done this. anyone.
owillis: the attack could have been designed to elicit just such a response as yours. it could be crazy christians who want to bring on armageddon or israeli zealots who want the US to wipe out palestine or american militiamen who think the government has betrayed them or anti-WTO-types or just anyone.
WE DON'T KNOW.
I'll tell you the truth: I'm surprised that this hasn't happened before now.
posted by rebeccablood at 10:03 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
owillis: the attack could have been designed to elicit just such a response as yours. it could be crazy christians who want to bring on armageddon or israeli zealots who want the US to wipe out palestine or american militiamen who think the government has betrayed them or anti-WTO-types or just anyone.
WE DON'T KNOW.
I'll tell you the truth: I'm surprised that this hasn't happened before now.
posted by rebeccablood at 10:03 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Bin Laden Warned of 'Unprecedented' Attack
posted by muckster at 10:04 AM on September 11, 2001 [4 favorites]
posted by muckster at 10:04 AM on September 11, 2001 [4 favorites]
internet traffice report
received from Grant at WorldNewYork.org
posted by hazyjane at 10:04 AM on September 11, 2001
received from Grant at WorldNewYork.org
posted by hazyjane at 10:04 AM on September 11, 2001
The accords were signed on 17 Sept 78, but the conference in which they were signed was held from the 5th to the 17th.
posted by disarray at 10:05 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by disarray at 10:05 AM on September 11, 2001
I'd like to see us wipe them off the face of the earth.
Regardless of your world view, this is barbaric.
I don't defend the Palestinians. It is barbaric to celebrate the deaths of others. But it's probably worse to propose genocide because of the barbaric actions of the few. Also, before you do that, you might want to look back through history and see whether any Americans celebrated events that resulted in the deaths of many civilians.
I certainly hope that the people who are responsible will be severely punished. I'm just not willing to kill people for their feelings, however barbaric, unless they actually did something to cause the harm.
posted by anapestic at 10:05 AM on September 11, 2001 [12 favorites]
Regardless of your world view, this is barbaric.
I don't defend the Palestinians. It is barbaric to celebrate the deaths of others. But it's probably worse to propose genocide because of the barbaric actions of the few. Also, before you do that, you might want to look back through history and see whether any Americans celebrated events that resulted in the deaths of many civilians.
I certainly hope that the people who are responsible will be severely punished. I'm just not willing to kill people for their feelings, however barbaric, unless they actually did something to cause the harm.
posted by anapestic at 10:05 AM on September 11, 2001 [12 favorites]
Some links that might be of interest:
http://partners.nyc.com is not suffering from the overload, unlike the normal URL, though they have replaced the New York Times logo graphic with simple text.
Interesting image from the National Weather Service. That's smoke reflecting the radar, not clouds
MAE East Internet traffic report.
Fire Department of NY live broadcasts.
NYPD Live police radio broadcast.
NYC-area traffic reports and cameras (although no cameras appear to be showing video).
posted by Mo Nickels at 10:05 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
http://partners.nyc.com is not suffering from the overload, unlike the normal URL, though they have replaced the New York Times logo graphic with simple text.
Interesting image from the National Weather Service. That's smoke reflecting the radar, not clouds
MAE East Internet traffic report.
Fire Department of NY live broadcasts.
NYPD Live police radio broadcast.
NYC-area traffic reports and cameras (although no cameras appear to be showing video).
posted by Mo Nickels at 10:05 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Apparently there was a cell phone call from the plane that crashed out of Pittsburgh. Is the military intelligence intelligent enough not to keep anything really important somewhere as high-profile as the pentagon? What are going to be the long-term economic/political consequences? I KNEW that tax surplus would come in handy for something. Who will the scapegoats be? Could this trigger even further nationalism/militarism? Grassroots, institutional? Would it be justified?
posted by scissorfish at 10:07 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
posted by scissorfish at 10:07 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
My greatest fear is that this could be some flip-trip gourp of distrubed people from our country. That thought scares me more than if it is a forgien organization.
posted by bjgeiger at 10:09 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by bjgeiger at 10:09 AM on September 11, 2001
my greatest fear is how our government is going to respond. more erosion of freedom in the name of security. mark my words.
posted by rebeccablood at 10:10 AM on September 11, 2001 [309 favorites]
posted by rebeccablood at 10:10 AM on September 11, 2001 [309 favorites]
What surprises me is that some of the people who did come out from WTC after the plane crashes. The safety officials were more concerned about the smoke, but though the building structure was fine. One of the first things I thought of when I saw the second plane crash, was that building 2 (South tower as people on CNN report it) looked weak. I was honestly expecting to see a 3rd plane headed for the Empire State Building.
This is just a sad sad day.
posted by riffola at 10:12 AM on September 11, 2001
This is just a sad sad day.
posted by riffola at 10:12 AM on September 11, 2001
Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
The Second Coming (part) (William Butler Yeats)
posted by RichLyon at 10:13 AM on September 11, 2001 [5 favorites]
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
The Second Coming (part) (William Butler Yeats)
posted by RichLyon at 10:13 AM on September 11, 2001 [5 favorites]
I agree rebecca. Suspension of some civil rights would be a typical government response in a situation like this
posted by bjgeiger at 10:14 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by bjgeiger at 10:14 AM on September 11, 2001
President Bush just made an address from Barksdale AFB in Louisiana. He looked dazed, confused. He spoke directly from notes, very, very slowly. I didn't get a sense of courage or leadership. Anyone else?
posted by stevis at 10:15 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by stevis at 10:15 AM on September 11, 2001
Can anyone confirm or deny the rumors about Camp David?
posted by fieldswn at 10:16 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by fieldswn at 10:16 AM on September 11, 2001
And will Yasser Arafat say the celebrating is disgusting? Certainly not.
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat condemned the attack, saying he "sent his condolences and those of the Palestinian people to Bush and the American people." (from CNN)
Don't make things worse than they already are. We know nothing about who is responsible for this.
posted by feckless at 10:16 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat condemned the attack, saying he "sent his condolences and those of the Palestinian people to Bush and the American people." (from CNN)
Don't make things worse than they already are. We know nothing about who is responsible for this.
posted by feckless at 10:16 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
MSNBC and CNN just confirmed that the rumors about a plane crashing into Camp David are untrue. No planes have crashed into Camp David.
posted by headspace at 10:17 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by headspace at 10:17 AM on September 11, 2001
Rebecca is right. The sad irony is that if we do give away our freedom for more "security" the terrorists will have won.
posted by daveadams at 10:18 AM on September 11, 2001 [9 favorites]
posted by daveadams at 10:18 AM on September 11, 2001 [9 favorites]
a good compilation of photographs of the event are here. does anyone else have a sick feeling in their stomach that there are people out there that can think of executing a plan like this and followers that are capable of actually executing it?
posted by r-boogie at 10:20 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by r-boogie at 10:20 AM on September 11, 2001
scissorfish, yes, the net is running very slowly, when at all. From here in Australia, there are a lot of people just trying to establish what is going on. Our Prime Minister Mr Howard is in America, in a hotel near the Pentagon that has been sealed. Ex-president Clinton is in Port Douglas in Queensland. There are security concerns surrounding those facts naturally. Clinton in preparing to give a conference soon for our press here. Our thought are certainly with you all.
posted by lucien at 10:21 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by lucien at 10:21 AM on September 11, 2001
Muckster: NATO ist not .COM - NATO is at www.nato.int
posted by vowe at 10:21 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by vowe at 10:21 AM on September 11, 2001
Afghanistan also sent its condolences - Afghanistan who despise America?? Wasn't there an explosion outside the State Department or something? Car bomb??
posted by Mossy at 10:26 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by Mossy at 10:26 AM on September 11, 2001
I'd like to thank rebeccablood and anapestic for bringing some perspective to all this. Today's events have been shocking to say the least but we should try not to let this turn into a generalisation of a whole country and then, in turn, hate for them. We all know what that leads to.
posted by Saima at 10:27 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
posted by Saima at 10:27 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
UK Heads-of-state latest...
Tony Blair is making a statement in half an hour -- although it's difficult to see what he can say.
William Hague has announced the suspension of the Conservative Leadership election.
Duchess of York is safe -- although oddly Prince Edward was flying into New York, and his plane was diverted....
posted by feelinglistless at 10:28 AM on September 11, 2001
Tony Blair is making a statement in half an hour -- although it's difficult to see what he can say.
William Hague has announced the suspension of the Conservative Leadership election.
Duchess of York is safe -- although oddly Prince Edward was flying into New York, and his plane was diverted....
posted by feelinglistless at 10:28 AM on September 11, 2001
mossy: the carbomb was a false report.
I'm sure this isn't a popular point of view, but this might be a good time for each of us to look at the actions of the US and think about what might have elicited such hatred from someone else?
when it's your own countrymen, it seems like a horrible, egregious, unforgivable evil. remember that there are plenty of people and countries around the world who have lost countrymen and loved ones--and who can quite accurately and reasonably blame the US either for directly causing those losses, or for turning a blind eye.
as I said before, I'm just surprised that this hasn't happened before now.
posted by rebeccablood at 10:34 AM on September 11, 2001 [6 favorites]
I'm sure this isn't a popular point of view, but this might be a good time for each of us to look at the actions of the US and think about what might have elicited such hatred from someone else?
when it's your own countrymen, it seems like a horrible, egregious, unforgivable evil. remember that there are plenty of people and countries around the world who have lost countrymen and loved ones--and who can quite accurately and reasonably blame the US either for directly causing those losses, or for turning a blind eye.
as I said before, I'm just surprised that this hasn't happened before now.
posted by rebeccablood at 10:34 AM on September 11, 2001 [6 favorites]
How did the World Trade Center crash in that way?? It was like one of those completely controlled explosions..
Muslims will be the first to be blamed. All 1.2 billion of us..
Are there any reports as to casualties yet??
How did a plane mange to hit the Pentagon??? That place should be fortified like anything?!?!? Also, I heard before they hit that F-16s were tracking a plane.
How about the people who were at the foot of the WTC when the crashed??? There must have been thousands of firemen/policemen :( :( :(
posted by Mossy at 10:35 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
Muslims will be the first to be blamed. All 1.2 billion of us..
Are there any reports as to casualties yet??
How did a plane mange to hit the Pentagon??? That place should be fortified like anything?!?!? Also, I heard before they hit that F-16s were tracking a plane.
How about the people who were at the foot of the WTC when the crashed??? There must have been thousands of firemen/policemen :( :( :(
posted by Mossy at 10:35 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
I personally can't even process yet what's happened. The trade center towers had tens of thousands of people inside of them every day, a city within a city. I'm afraid for one of my relatives who may well have been there (we haven't been able to find out yet) and sickened by the knowledge that over the coming weeks I'll be learning of the deaths of other people I've met or worked with.
But I think to turn from this to a call for revenge against the Palestinian people at large is not only ridiculously premature (remember the immediate belief that Oklahoma City was perpetrated by Islamic militants?) but another evil to compound this incomprehensible crime.
posted by BT at 10:42 AM on September 11, 2001
But I think to turn from this to a call for revenge against the Palestinian people at large is not only ridiculously premature (remember the immediate belief that Oklahoma City was perpetrated by Islamic militants?) but another evil to compound this incomprehensible crime.
posted by BT at 10:42 AM on September 11, 2001
So far as I've been able to determine, the Internet backbone has been holding up pretty well... well, except for those parts of it that run through NYC.
CNN has gracefully degraded it's front page as hard as I've ever seen it: a logo, and text; that's *it*. Loadings seem to be mostly on end sites -- there is really a *LOT* of bandwidth in the backbone.
Fox News reports a State of Emergency in Wahington DC.
I actually thought Bush's address was passable, considering. Barksdale may have been a leak; reportedly, we don't know *where* he was.
NATO is at :http://www.nato.*int*.
NMCC active and SecDef is there, at ThreatCon Delta.
The latest on Camp David that I have is that they think the Pennsy plane *may* have been headed there.
There are 4 flights of -16's and -18's over Downtown DC.
Another local paper with a good collection of wire service sidebars is available.
Several senators are saying "we're at war", others hope not. I do too. But I know we better have... a proportional response.
As long as we believe we can survive this, we can. America, to quote President John Patrick Ryan, is an *idea*.
Keep on believing, people.
posted by baylink at 10:43 AM on September 11, 2001
CNN has gracefully degraded it's front page as hard as I've ever seen it: a logo, and text; that's *it*. Loadings seem to be mostly on end sites -- there is really a *LOT* of bandwidth in the backbone.
Fox News reports a State of Emergency in Wahington DC.
I actually thought Bush's address was passable, considering. Barksdale may have been a leak; reportedly, we don't know *where* he was.
NATO is at :http://www.nato.*int*.
NMCC active and SecDef is there, at ThreatCon Delta.
The latest on Camp David that I have is that they think the Pennsy plane *may* have been headed there.
There are 4 flights of -16's and -18's over Downtown DC.
Another local paper with a good collection of wire service sidebars is available.
Several senators are saying "we're at war", others hope not. I do too. But I know we better have... a proportional response.
As long as we believe we can survive this, we can. America, to quote President John Patrick Ryan, is an *idea*.
Keep on believing, people.
posted by baylink at 10:43 AM on September 11, 2001
It is my hope that everyone will now carefully watch our politicians. Those who invest in the war machine and military of this nation, which many people have in their invest portfolios, now stand to make millions to billions on the fear and anger caused by this event. So, don't think that everyone is unhappy about this.
posted by memorydream at 10:44 AM on September 11, 2001 [12 favorites]
posted by memorydream at 10:44 AM on September 11, 2001 [12 favorites]
Words fail me - so from the BBC News Talking Point discussion - someone quotes Gandhi:
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Ghandi
posted by blackbeltjones at 10:45 AM on September 11, 2001
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Ghandi
posted by blackbeltjones at 10:45 AM on September 11, 2001
Ok, false report.
This was an amazing piece of organisation - thats why it hasn't happened before.
Nobody will ever admit to this.
Its going to take weeks, even months to find out who did it :(
The world is gonna change because of this.
I still don't get why they didn't instead attack someone like G Bush instead, take out the leader? Instead, the mofos chose to hit 10s of thousands of innocent civilians.
posted by Mossy at 10:48 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
This was an amazing piece of organisation - thats why it hasn't happened before.
Nobody will ever admit to this.
Its going to take weeks, even months to find out who did it :(
The world is gonna change because of this.
I still don't get why they didn't instead attack someone like G Bush instead, take out the leader? Instead, the mofos chose to hit 10s of thousands of innocent civilians.
posted by Mossy at 10:48 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Canada has closed its borders and all outgoing flights, but is handling all incoming North American flight traffic - . My local Red Cross is preparing to send an Disaster Response Team as soon as they can travel which includes my boyfriend, and citizens are flooding to the blood bank. Personally, I send my prayers.
posted by hannahkitty at 10:49 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by hannahkitty at 10:49 AM on September 11, 2001
Numb. I'm just completely numb.
posted by mathowie at 10:51 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by mathowie at 10:51 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
rebecca risks hubris, IMO. The greatest fear, surely, is for the next 30,000 lives. A massive terrorist attack on US soil is now demonstrably achievable. The intelligence services are demonstrably impotent. These two observations will no doubt be profoundly encouraging to all organisation with a grudge against the US and access to a briefcase of anthrax spores. Do you honestly imagine it is over?
The world changed today. Barbarism->civilisation->decadence->barbarism is a well established cycle in human affairs. I think we just began a transition, and to a state of affairs where "eroded freedoms" are the least of our worries. "mark my words"...
posted by RichLyon at 10:54 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
The world changed today. Barbarism->civilisation->decadence->barbarism is a well established cycle in human affairs. I think we just began a transition, and to a state of affairs where "eroded freedoms" are the least of our worries. "mark my words"...
posted by RichLyon at 10:54 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
this might be a good time for each of us to look at the actions of the US and think about what might have elicited such hatred from someone else?
This is simply disgusting.
posted by mw at 10:59 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
This is simply disgusting.
posted by mw at 10:59 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
From Annanova: New Yorkers Queue For Food And Cash.
Is making a run on financial institutions the right response at a time like this? I know it's not logical -- but after something like this it's not like logical, rational thought is possible...
posted by likorish at 11:00 AM on September 11, 2001
Is making a run on financial institutions the right response at a time like this? I know it's not logical -- but after something like this it's not like logical, rational thought is possible...
posted by likorish at 11:00 AM on September 11, 2001
As I write this, I am sitting in the green grass across from the United Unions building on New York Avenue in Washington DC. I am only a block from the White House. There are currently two layers of security around the white house from what I can see. There is an outer layer has secret service and other police officers to turn back people and cars, and an inner on complete with road blocks.
Since air traffic has been stopped, it has been quieter than usual. The endless string of planes flying into national airport has disappeared. Occasionally, you can hear a rumbling overhead, probably fighter jets circling the city.
Traffic in DC is at a stand still. Quite a few federal workers have given up on driving home. You can see them mingling with the homeless people and listening to transistor radios in the parks that sprinkle the area from the Watergate Complex to the White House. Some people look scared, but most look pretty calm, like this happens every lunch hour.
There are lots of people standing around, people talking, people smoking cigarettes. This is something you never see in DC, a place where people never seem to get where they're going fast enough. But with the bridges to Virginia blocked and the Metro skipping some stops, we all suddenly have time to stand around and listen.
The secret service seems to be eyeing me nervously, they've moved the security perimeter beyond where I'm sitting, so I think I'll go home and post this.
posted by Alison at 11:00 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
Since air traffic has been stopped, it has been quieter than usual. The endless string of planes flying into national airport has disappeared. Occasionally, you can hear a rumbling overhead, probably fighter jets circling the city.
Traffic in DC is at a stand still. Quite a few federal workers have given up on driving home. You can see them mingling with the homeless people and listening to transistor radios in the parks that sprinkle the area from the Watergate Complex to the White House. Some people look scared, but most look pretty calm, like this happens every lunch hour.
There are lots of people standing around, people talking, people smoking cigarettes. This is something you never see in DC, a place where people never seem to get where they're going fast enough. But with the bridges to Virginia blocked and the Metro skipping some stops, we all suddenly have time to stand around and listen.
The secret service seems to be eyeing me nervously, they've moved the security perimeter beyond where I'm sitting, so I think I'll go home and post this.
posted by Alison at 11:00 AM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
I am afraid of how many more lives may be lost in the US's quest for vengeance.
posted by phichens at 11:03 AM on September 11, 2001 [12 favorites]
posted by phichens at 11:03 AM on September 11, 2001 [12 favorites]
blackbeltjones: interesting. I've donned my headphones to filter out the absurd and ignorant comments from my co-workers. Ghandi's quote has been repeating in my head for most of the morning.
-w
posted by winterdrm at 11:04 AM on September 11, 2001
-w
posted by winterdrm at 11:04 AM on September 11, 2001
MSNBC is accessible from western Canada, and it too is stripped down....
posted by likorish at 11:05 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by likorish at 11:05 AM on September 11, 2001
Also, these types of attacks were always possible: the empire state building in '45 and the bombings throughout the '90s. Heck, the Doonesbury comic strip joked that all terrorists would have to do is ram a plane into something. Panic and fear is a survival tactic for those who have less and an elevation tactic for those who have more, when the next attack will happen is never appropriate to think, that type of blindness puts a bullet in your back while you run. Take care of those who need help now and garner yourself creatively for what will come.
posted by memorydream at 11:05 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by memorydream at 11:05 AM on September 11, 2001
A few thousand out of 4 million Palestinians celebrated. They are confused, fucked-up people much like the people who perpetrated the attack.
But it is a side issue, it's a reaction just as barbaric as the reaction we have in wanted to kill people remotely attached to this attack.
It's important to focus not on the radicals who might feel somehow vindicated by this attack but on the actual attackers.
posted by cell divide at 11:07 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
But it is a side issue, it's a reaction just as barbaric as the reaction we have in wanted to kill people remotely attached to this attack.
It's important to focus not on the radicals who might feel somehow vindicated by this attack but on the actual attackers.
posted by cell divide at 11:07 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the world is now changed..
and London has now had all the flights cancelled too.
Imagine also the economic impact - all the major companies would have been centered there, with their top people :(
State of emergency in NYC, national guard on streets.
posted by Mossy at 11:07 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
and London has now had all the flights cancelled too.
Imagine also the economic impact - all the major companies would have been centered there, with their top people :(
State of emergency in NYC, national guard on streets.
posted by Mossy at 11:07 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Jesus. I have a coworker who thinks that this is Bush's fault (she is a self-proclaimed "die-hard Dem"). Can anyone possibly support this view, that if it was Gore elected or simply not Bush as president, that this wouldn't have happened? That just sounds preposterous to me.
posted by adampsyche at 11:09 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by adampsyche at 11:09 AM on September 11, 2001
Is anybody else struck by how flimsy the "celebrations" in Palestine look? I see a handful of children and a few embarassed adults.
posted by muckster at 11:09 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by muckster at 11:09 AM on September 11, 2001
rebecca risks hubris, IMO
don't you see that this is a turning point?
- we go on as we have and this kind of thing continues
- we implement some form of police state in order to protect ourselves, thus ensuring our material wealth, but completely renouncing the freedoms that supposedly define us a a nation
- we completely rethink the way we operate in the world in order to make ourselves a less hated entity.
it's going to be one or two. and sure I'm concerned for the next 30,000. but if we give up our civil liberties in response to this, they've won. we lose everything that ever mattered about this country.
posted by rebeccablood at 11:13 AM on September 11, 2001 [16 favorites]
don't you see that this is a turning point?
- we go on as we have and this kind of thing continues
- we implement some form of police state in order to protect ourselves, thus ensuring our material wealth, but completely renouncing the freedoms that supposedly define us a a nation
- we completely rethink the way we operate in the world in order to make ourselves a less hated entity.
it's going to be one or two. and sure I'm concerned for the next 30,000. but if we give up our civil liberties in response to this, they've won. we lose everything that ever mattered about this country.
posted by rebeccablood at 11:13 AM on September 11, 2001 [16 favorites]
the world trade centers could hold up to 500,000 people, according to the architect.
link from little green footballs.
posted by bwg at 11:14 AM on September 11, 2001
link from little green footballs.
posted by bwg at 11:14 AM on September 11, 2001
I just wrote in my log, but I'll condense it here: how incredible it is that so few can reach out and affect so many. Here in Seattle, there are no planes in the sky. It's a surreal scene, a quiet clear blue sky with no planes, contrails, helicopters or sound. I've never seen it like this before. I'm numb as well. I hope we don't lash out at random, or at the wrong people.
posted by kokogiak at 11:15 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by kokogiak at 11:15 AM on September 11, 2001
This goes beyond terrorism to a form of asymmetrical warfare. The response to such an attack must be as definite and strong as any one would give in open battle. If countries such as Afghanistan, Yemen and Iraq are willing to harbor known terrorist organizations, they must also be willing to suffer the consequences of those associations. And, if this attack is state sponsored, the US must considered itself at war.
Regardless of blame, America will fundamentally change because of these acts. The very freedoms which define the nation will have to be reconsidered, and, if needed, changed. Such a change to a society goes beyond the material loss by forcing a consideration of a nation's sense of identity.
For this inevitable loss, coupled with what will surely be a horrendous loss of life, we must all grieve. I am not an American nor am I given to slogans, but I do hope that today, and for many days hereafter God blesses America in all that it will have to endure.
posted by sunsolid at 11:16 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Regardless of blame, America will fundamentally change because of these acts. The very freedoms which define the nation will have to be reconsidered, and, if needed, changed. Such a change to a society goes beyond the material loss by forcing a consideration of a nation's sense of identity.
For this inevitable loss, coupled with what will surely be a horrendous loss of life, we must all grieve. I am not an American nor am I given to slogans, but I do hope that today, and for many days hereafter God blesses America in all that it will have to endure.
posted by sunsolid at 11:16 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
The Pentagon has just released a statement:
Fire and rescue have only just been able to approach the area because of the intensity of the heat.
posted by feelinglistless at 11:22 AM on September 11, 2001
Fire and rescue have only just been able to approach the area because of the intensity of the heat.
posted by feelinglistless at 11:22 AM on September 11, 2001
i'm numb, too... i'm holding the loved ones within my immediate reach a lot tighter today.
posted by webchick at 11:25 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by webchick at 11:25 AM on September 11, 2001
apparently the Whitehouse has anti aircraft guns after that light aircraft incident.. Those State Troopers in NYC look ominous - New York commerce is screwed, thats for sure..
I thought it was 50,000 in WTC?
oh, little things, I think major league baseball and the emmy awards have been cancelled too.
posted by Mossy at 11:26 AM on September 11, 2001
I thought it was 50,000 in WTC?
oh, little things, I think major league baseball and the emmy awards have been cancelled too.
posted by Mossy at 11:26 AM on September 11, 2001
My prayers to all those who have had their souls torn apart by this. This is our world's fault and those who would rather fight to the very last few to realize they've got to do something to get along and stop doing this. My hope is just for clear vision enough love to pull it together. Good job New York for donating blood and doing so much to help America's sons and daughters in your city. I'm really proud of you New York. Do your best and keep clear heads and open ears, we all need that. I fully agree rebecca, by the way.
posted by memorydream at 11:29 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by memorydream at 11:29 AM on September 11, 2001
CNN (tv) just reported that a passenger on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania locked him(?)self in a restroom with a cell phone and called an emergency line (911?) saying, "we've been hijacked! we've been hijacked!" The passenger stayed on the phone until the crash.
A friend reported that "according to witnesses it sounds like [the pilot] jammed the throttles forward, locked them, and pushed the plane into a dive. Probably to make it an unrecoverable dive"
posted by phichens at 11:31 AM on September 11, 2001
A friend reported that "according to witnesses it sounds like [the pilot] jammed the throttles forward, locked them, and pushed the plane into a dive. Probably to make it an unrecoverable dive"
posted by phichens at 11:31 AM on September 11, 2001
dead @ 32 hosting mirrors of videos of WTC's collapse, as well as assorted images and a discussion forum to further discuss the attack.
posted by yarf at 11:34 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by yarf at 11:34 AM on September 11, 2001
I agree with rebeccablood that our focus (as Americans) must not only to bring justice to those organizing this attack, but on preserving civil liberties. During peacetime, it's easier to be socially conscious and live morally. I'm most concerned that an event this drastic will cause many to replace ideologies based on reason with ideologies based on fear.
posted by ktheory at 11:35 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
posted by ktheory at 11:35 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
Is anybody else wondering why there was no warning? I'm quite niece when it comes to air traffic control, but either the original pilot were flying or somebody else was. And I'd imagine if the planes were off their flight plans, and the pilots were not responding, somebody must have noticed... right?
Maybe it's time for some biometrics in plane cockpits? Maybe it's time for a call-and-response style security system for pilots and Air Traffic Controllers?
The other thing that's running through my mind is how horrifically like the James Bond movies this is... crash jet liners into the financial center of the world, then drain off all the cash...
posted by daver at 11:35 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Maybe it's time for some biometrics in plane cockpits? Maybe it's time for a call-and-response style security system for pilots and Air Traffic Controllers?
The other thing that's running through my mind is how horrifically like the James Bond movies this is... crash jet liners into the financial center of the world, then drain off all the cash...
posted by daver at 11:35 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
WTC - half a million souls.
even if 90% were evacuated - which the architect said would be a nightmare...
posted by bwg at 11:36 AM on September 11, 2001
even if 90% were evacuated - which the architect said would be a nightmare...
posted by bwg at 11:36 AM on September 11, 2001
Here in the UK, PM Blair has just made a statement to the effect that this is not about the US being at war with terrorism, but about the free democracies of the world being at war with terrorism, which is valid, but somewhat hollow, IMHO.
Regarding Rebecca's (and others') view that it might behoove the US to examine itself and what it has done to create enemies with such determined hatred; I think it's worth reflecting that many people in many countries (including its 'allies') have serious issues with the way the US comports itself on the world stage. It's no use announcing yourself the world's policeman/woman if the people of the world haven't chosen to be policed by you, and it's got to be galling for a country like the US to suggest that it should be the one taking the moral high ground when some of its moral standpoints are, frankly, repugnant to many people.
I'd be the last to suggest that violence should be a response to this, but please don't fall into the view that victimhood equates to sainthood.
posted by jonpollard at 11:37 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Regarding Rebecca's (and others') view that it might behoove the US to examine itself and what it has done to create enemies with such determined hatred; I think it's worth reflecting that many people in many countries (including its 'allies') have serious issues with the way the US comports itself on the world stage. It's no use announcing yourself the world's policeman/woman if the people of the world haven't chosen to be policed by you, and it's got to be galling for a country like the US to suggest that it should be the one taking the moral high ground when some of its moral standpoints are, frankly, repugnant to many people.
I'd be the last to suggest that violence should be a response to this, but please don't fall into the view that victimhood equates to sainthood.
posted by jonpollard at 11:37 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Can anyone possibly support this view, that if it was Gore elected or simply not Bush as president, that this wouldn't have happened? That just sounds preposterous to me.
All bets are off. Politics don't matter right now--it's more important that we be unified and support each other. Did I vote for Bush? No. Will I support my president during this mind-boggling tragedy? You bet your ass.
posted by frykitty at 11:39 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
All bets are off. Politics don't matter right now--it's more important that we be unified and support each other. Did I vote for Bush? No. Will I support my president during this mind-boggling tragedy? You bet your ass.
posted by frykitty at 11:39 AM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
i'm just scared that george w will go on a rampage. did you guys get that quote from his speech: "america will pass this test." test? does america have something to prove? how many more people must die before george feels vindicated?
posted by jedwin at 11:44 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
posted by jedwin at 11:44 AM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
Thanks frykitty. I think you are right. It was just so disarming to hear partisanship when the frickin' US is in the shape it is in today. Shameless opportunism.
posted by adampsyche at 11:45 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by adampsyche at 11:45 AM on September 11, 2001
This has been the worst day in American history. Right now, it feels like one of the worst days of my life.
posted by argybarg at 11:56 AM on September 11, 2001
posted by argybarg at 11:56 AM on September 11, 2001
http://www.shunn.net/okay/
a site that has been set up as a check-in point for people in DC/new york who can't get through the phone lines, so they can let everyone know they're all right.
posted by christian at 12:01 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
a site that has been set up as a check-in point for people in DC/new york who can't get through the phone lines, so they can let everyone know they're all right.
posted by christian at 12:01 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
from Salon (bottom of page):
PLO chairman Yasser Arafat strongly condemned the attacks, which came on the 8th anniversary of the Washington meeting between Clinton, Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin.
not that it necessarily means anything....
posted by epersonae at 12:03 PM on September 11, 2001
PLO chairman Yasser Arafat strongly condemned the attacks, which came on the 8th anniversary of the Washington meeting between Clinton, Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin.
not that it necessarily means anything....
posted by epersonae at 12:03 PM on September 11, 2001
WTC - half a million souls
50,000 worked there, not 500,000. Still extremely tragic, obviously.
I keep thinking about what America will be like in 10 years vs what it would have been like if this hadn't happened.
posted by quirked at 12:17 PM on September 11, 2001 [23 favorites]
50,000 worked there, not 500,000. Still extremely tragic, obviously.
I keep thinking about what America will be like in 10 years vs what it would have been like if this hadn't happened.
posted by quirked at 12:17 PM on September 11, 2001 [23 favorites]
People in the streets are screaming at Arabs near me. Its absurd, and horrible. One woman, "Are you happy with what you've done?" Another man, "It's going down soon, man."
I have a friend who claims the ash I'm breathing is asbestos. Internal memo at ABC News.
posted by Doug at 12:29 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
I have a friend who claims the ash I'm breathing is asbestos. Internal memo at ABC News.
posted by Doug at 12:29 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
The half a million figure came from the interview in the Jerusalem Post with the WTC architect (who now lives in Israel; whether that had anything to do with the choice of targets is an open question). It's not supported by anything else, except a vague statement I found that "up to" that many people might be in the buildings over the course of a day. It's ridiculous when you consider that not even 3 million people work in Manhattan daily.
The FEMA report on the evacuation after the 1993 bombing gives a figure of 50,000 evacuees.
Note that there are many reports that people working on upper floors got out, so it's clear that not everyone was trapped inside. But there were definitely a large number of casualties, and I wouldn't be surprised if the death toll topped 1000. We still don't know what kind of damage might have been done to other buildings or how many rescue workers may have been inside.
Doug, where are you? I worry for the safety of anyone who even looks Arab, whether or not they really are.
posted by dhartung at 12:31 PM on September 11, 2001
The FEMA report on the evacuation after the 1993 bombing gives a figure of 50,000 evacuees.
Note that there are many reports that people working on upper floors got out, so it's clear that not everyone was trapped inside. But there were definitely a large number of casualties, and I wouldn't be surprised if the death toll topped 1000. We still don't know what kind of damage might have been done to other buildings or how many rescue workers may have been inside.
Doug, where are you? I worry for the safety of anyone who even looks Arab, whether or not they really are.
posted by dhartung at 12:31 PM on September 11, 2001
A couple of hours ago I received this email from Nicholas Longo, the CEO of CoffeeCup Software, which make a popular HTML editor. He wrote, in part: "We would like to also say on record that if any country is found responsible for these attacks, we call for that country's complete destruction and annihilation."
posted by tranquileye at 12:33 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by tranquileye at 12:33 PM on September 11, 2001
I saw some interviews with survivors on the news - this dude got off from the 86th floor of building 1 fine, apparently no confusion/panic either. This indicates a large number did manage to get out. I pray they did.
There are gonna be some massive infringements of 'civil liberties' in the US, and lots of angry americans in a bit...
btw, was it just me, or did those Palestinians 'celebrations' seem kinda tiny and orchestrated? Why do we get the same scenes again and again?
The brit foreign office has issued a warning to all brits in muslim countries to take extra precautions and warned about being in in America too.
posted by Mossy at 12:33 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
There are gonna be some massive infringements of 'civil liberties' in the US, and lots of angry americans in a bit...
btw, was it just me, or did those Palestinians 'celebrations' seem kinda tiny and orchestrated? Why do we get the same scenes again and again?
The brit foreign office has issued a warning to all brits in muslim countries to take extra precautions and warned about being in in America too.
posted by Mossy at 12:33 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
My heart died today for these people snuffed out in a senseless act. I am neither concerned nor interested in America right now. Right now I am concerned for humans, the thousands that lost their lives today and the millions who loved them.
Humanity is good. Let's prove it. Love your brothers and sisters.
Peace. Please.
posted by Kafkaesque at 12:34 PM on September 11, 2001
Humanity is good. Let's prove it. Love your brothers and sisters.
Peace. Please.
posted by Kafkaesque at 12:34 PM on September 11, 2001
My roommate woke me up this morning to see the news and I still can't believe it's not a nightmare. My family's all in the Washington, DC, area, and I haven't been able to get them on the phone. I finally got an e-mail from my mom, and everyone's OK, but it was really scary. My sister-in-law's aunt lives two miles from where the plane crashed in Pennsylvania. Last month I flew from Newark to San Francisco, the same route as one of the planes today.
What a horrible day. Hundreds of terrified people in the airplanes, thousands of people in the buildings on the ground who may or may not have known what hit them, who knows how many thousands of people who have to see their loved ones die on television. It's staggering.
I'm also worried that this could just be the beginning, unless the US changes how it behaves around the world.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:35 PM on September 11, 2001
What a horrible day. Hundreds of terrified people in the airplanes, thousands of people in the buildings on the ground who may or may not have known what hit them, who knows how many thousands of people who have to see their loved ones die on television. It's staggering.
I'm also worried that this could just be the beginning, unless the US changes how it behaves around the world.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:35 PM on September 11, 2001
The world changed today. Barbarism->civilisation->decadence->barbarism is a well established cycle in human affairs. I think we just began a transition.
This is one of the most chilling things I've read today. I couldn't agree more, and I could be more horrified. My heart goes out to all the hundreds of people undoubtably still trapped in the WTC rubble.
Does anyone know those of us on the West Coast can help by donating blood? Can my blood get to NYC?
posted by arielmeadow at 12:35 PM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
This is one of the most chilling things I've read today. I couldn't agree more, and I could be more horrified. My heart goes out to all the hundreds of people undoubtably still trapped in the WTC rubble.
Does anyone know those of us on the West Coast can help by donating blood? Can my blood get to NYC?
posted by arielmeadow at 12:35 PM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
people in the u.s. are actually condeming an entire race due to the acts of a few? say it ain't so!
hopefully there aren't any internment camps in our future.
as for the ash you're breathing, i'm sure it's composed of a lot of things. asbestos probably is one of them. you might want to get one of those medical face masks or even a wet rag to hold over your mouth. the ash definately is not good for you.
posted by mich9139 at 12:36 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
hopefully there aren't any internment camps in our future.
as for the ash you're breathing, i'm sure it's composed of a lot of things. asbestos probably is one of them. you might want to get one of those medical face masks or even a wet rag to hold over your mouth. the ash definately is not good for you.
posted by mich9139 at 12:36 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
On DC radio there have been multiple reports that a plane from MPD (DC Police) was hijcked/stolen and then forced down by military fighter planes. Nothing else heard about it, for a good while now. If it's true, that might mean that some of the people connected have been taken alive.
posted by NortonDC at 12:38 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by NortonDC at 12:38 PM on September 11, 2001
About the 50,000 number, according to CNN, there are also 70,000 visitors a day to the WTC.
posted by eyeballkid at 12:39 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by eyeballkid at 12:39 PM on September 11, 2001
This reminds me, unfortunately, of the movie The Siege that came out in 1998. "When the [terrorist] bombings [in New York] escalate out of control, the President institutes martial law, sending in General Devereaux... with tanks and troops to ferret out the terrorists. Echoes of Japanese-Americans in internment camps ring out as Arabs, including the son of the Arab-American FBI agent, are herded into a stadium."
posted by tranquileye at 12:42 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by tranquileye at 12:42 PM on September 11, 2001
breathing the ash: even if there's no asbestos, you probably still need to think about silicosis.
...but you've probably got other things to worry about anyhow...
posted by aramaic at 12:42 PM on September 11, 2001
...but you've probably got other things to worry about anyhow...
posted by aramaic at 12:42 PM on September 11, 2001
The CBC is reporting that a Korean airliner is being held in Whitehorse (Yukon) and is being treated as a "hijacked plane."
posted by tranquileye at 12:44 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by tranquileye at 12:44 PM on September 11, 2001
70,000?? DAmn..
The downed plane was in Pittsburgh, wasn't it? Looks pretty darned broken up, doubt anyone survived, but clues may come from it..
Let us pray the survivors are many and the retaliation isn't rash.
This reminds me more of Fight Club - except without empty buildings - the US economy is about to go VERY strange, Manhattan will be out of action for a considerable time..
posted by Mossy at 12:45 PM on September 11, 2001
The downed plane was in Pittsburgh, wasn't it? Looks pretty darned broken up, doubt anyone survived, but clues may come from it..
Let us pray the survivors are many and the retaliation isn't rash.
This reminds me more of Fight Club - except without empty buildings - the US economy is about to go VERY strange, Manhattan will be out of action for a considerable time..
posted by Mossy at 12:45 PM on September 11, 2001
i am not making light of the immediate situation...
clean up will be a tremendous task. the buildings are too hot to even approach, meaning searches could take a week or more. groundwater will likely be contaminated, meaning fresh reservees will have to be shipped in. disposal will be a huge task, calling for even more traffic to and from the area.
as if the initial attack wasn't bad enough, the physical reminder will exist in new york for quite some time.
i'm wondering if they will even rebuild the buildings. it is definately an eerie change to the new york skyline. that is, when the debris settles, and the skyline is fully visible again.
posted by mich9139 at 12:47 PM on September 11, 2001
clean up will be a tremendous task. the buildings are too hot to even approach, meaning searches could take a week or more. groundwater will likely be contaminated, meaning fresh reservees will have to be shipped in. disposal will be a huge task, calling for even more traffic to and from the area.
as if the initial attack wasn't bad enough, the physical reminder will exist in new york for quite some time.
i'm wondering if they will even rebuild the buildings. it is definately an eerie change to the new york skyline. that is, when the debris settles, and the skyline is fully visible again.
posted by mich9139 at 12:47 PM on September 11, 2001
This isn't a Republican/Democrat thing. This is an American thing. Those planes didn't ask for party affiliation.
posted by owillis at 12:48 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
posted by owillis at 12:48 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
A massive terrorist attack on US soil is now demonstrably achievable. The intelligence services are demonstrably impotent. These two observations will no doubt be profoundly encouraging to all organisation with a grudge against the US and access to a briefcase of anthrax spores. Do you honestly imagine it is over?
This doesn't seem hugely likely. The Oklahoma City bombing demonstrated the same premises and I don't remember an epidemic of similar bombings immediately after that tragedy.
I think Rebecca is right to worry about our civil liberties. At times like this we're willing to surrender them for safety's sake and short-term gain, but we should be vigilant about the price we're paying for greater security. History suggests it's difficult to regain civil liberties once they're lost.
posted by Zettai at 12:48 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
This doesn't seem hugely likely. The Oklahoma City bombing demonstrated the same premises and I don't remember an epidemic of similar bombings immediately after that tragedy.
I think Rebecca is right to worry about our civil liberties. At times like this we're willing to surrender them for safety's sake and short-term gain, but we should be vigilant about the price we're paying for greater security. History suggests it's difficult to regain civil liberties once they're lost.
posted by Zettai at 12:48 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Of the 70,000 possible visitors, i'd bet very few of them were actually in one of the buildings at 9 am. Tourist groups normally don't even begin at that time, and don't start to pick up until 11:00 am or noon.
I'm not sure how many people were in the building at the time, but a press conference with giuliani and pataki named the number of wounded being treated after the WTC strike. As far as I can recall, they mentioned 1600 walking wounded, 600 hospitalized in stable condition, and 150 hospitalized in critical condition. This doesn't seem like a lot for a building that holds so many.
posted by dogmatic at 12:52 PM on September 11, 2001
I'm not sure how many people were in the building at the time, but a press conference with giuliani and pataki named the number of wounded being treated after the WTC strike. As far as I can recall, they mentioned 1600 walking wounded, 600 hospitalized in stable condition, and 150 hospitalized in critical condition. This doesn't seem like a lot for a building that holds so many.
posted by dogmatic at 12:52 PM on September 11, 2001
Maybe it's time for some biometrics in plane cockpits? Maybe it's time for a call-and-response style security system for pilots and Air Traffic Controllers? From reports I heard earlier, pilots have a code word to use if they are taken hostage. These words were not used (to my understanding at this point).
How did the World Trade Center crash in that way?? It was like one of those completely controlled explosions. From what I understand, the building had a lattice structure that was dependent on itself. If it had a column structure, damage to the top would not have caused the entire building to collapse. However, catastrophic damage to any part of the lattice brought the buildings down. Keep in mind that I am not a structural engineer.
posted by LeiaS at 12:52 PM on September 11, 2001
How did the World Trade Center crash in that way?? It was like one of those completely controlled explosions. From what I understand, the building had a lattice structure that was dependent on itself. If it had a column structure, damage to the top would not have caused the entire building to collapse. However, catastrophic damage to any part of the lattice brought the buildings down. Keep in mind that I am not a structural engineer.
posted by LeiaS at 12:52 PM on September 11, 2001
I think this is more than just an American thing. This affects us all.
posted by mkn at 12:53 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by mkn at 12:53 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
You find the godless bastards who did this and you tell 'em we're coming. You tell 'em we're coming and Hell's coming with us. (That's from the blog of an employee of the American Embassy in Israel, by the way. Isn't that reassuring?)
At blogs all over the internet, people are posting suggestively-racist, retaliatory idiocy.
Could everyone think twice before they spout random speculation and aggressive jingoism? We already hear it on CNN and it's amping up the heat here in NYC.
I know I'm paranoid but the National Guard is coming in and Rebecca is right. I expect a curfew here in NYC at the very least.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 12:53 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
At blogs all over the internet, people are posting suggestively-racist, retaliatory idiocy.
Could everyone think twice before they spout random speculation and aggressive jingoism? We already hear it on CNN and it's amping up the heat here in NYC.
I know I'm paranoid but the National Guard is coming in and Rebecca is right. I expect a curfew here in NYC at the very least.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 12:53 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
They will have to rebuild the buildings - for symbolic purposes if nothing else.. Watch the run in commodities now - Gold and Oil are going to skyrocket, and the stockmarkets are going to go dooown.. Some people are going to become very rich very soon.
This definately affects us all - the next week will be very interesting indeed.
I've heard reports of random beatings in the US - ppl are getting pissed...
posted by Mossy at 12:55 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
This definately affects us all - the next week will be very interesting indeed.
I've heard reports of random beatings in the US - ppl are getting pissed...
posted by Mossy at 12:55 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Someone was reporting that several passengers and crew tried to call from the hijacked planes. On the first plane to go into the WTC it is reported that a flight attendant called and indicted that two men had stabbed members of the crew and stormed the flight deck.
posted by tranquileye at 12:55 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by tranquileye at 12:55 PM on September 11, 2001
Got this spam today:
Hello adampsyche@yahoo.com, .... bit sad day in NY and our country
today :-( , but let's try to have a "stiff upper lip" and keep plugging
away.
This is a one-time (!!!) Thank-You-letter (i.e., this is not spam)
from this lynkstation which you got by submitting a link to our site's FFA
Page! Since it was a couple weeks ago,
perhaps you'd like to re-submit your url-link vya your favorite FFA
Blaster again. :-)
To "remove" see bottom of this letter, thank you! ... :-)
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
I feel like giving someone a stiff upper lip...
posted by adampsyche at 12:58 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Hello adampsyche@yahoo.com, .... bit sad day in NY and our country
today :-( , but let's try to have a "stiff upper lip" and keep plugging
away.
This is a one-time (!!!) Thank-You-letter (i.e., this is not spam)
from this lynkstation which you got by submitting a link to our site's FFA
Page! Since it was a couple weeks ago,
perhaps you'd like to re-submit your url-link vya your favorite FFA
Blaster again. :-)
To "remove" see bottom of this letter, thank you! ... :-)
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
I feel like giving someone a stiff upper lip...
posted by adampsyche at 12:58 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
What a terrible day. I go to college in Queens, and my morning class was just ending when someone starts pointing out the window saying "It looks like the empire state building is on fire or something." As I walked through the halls I gathered various information from overheard conversations, it sounded like a plane crash.
I got down to the cafeteria to find some friends huddled around a radio, and they tell me that we're under attack. Minutes later I've got the full story off 1010wins. It was horrible to see students rushing to pay phones, people crying in the hallways. People had actually watched the towers fall from the windows in the stair wells.
All I could do was get in my car, turn on the radio and sit in an hour of traffic and sirens.
Horrible. Terrible.
posted by tomorama at 12:58 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I got down to the cafeteria to find some friends huddled around a radio, and they tell me that we're under attack. Minutes later I've got the full story off 1010wins. It was horrible to see students rushing to pay phones, people crying in the hallways. People had actually watched the towers fall from the windows in the stair wells.
All I could do was get in my car, turn on the radio and sit in an hour of traffic and sirens.
Horrible. Terrible.
posted by tomorama at 12:58 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
We should all be concerned about the upswing in xenophobia and jingoism at this point. No one even knows who did this.
posted by tranquileye at 12:58 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by tranquileye at 12:58 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
hey arielmeadow, the blood supply in this country is always low, especially during the summer. don't worry about how it's going to get there, just go out and donate. i wish i could donate, but they probably won't let me because of my cold... :(
stay strong and be good to each other.
posted by brigita at 12:59 PM on September 11, 2001
stay strong and be good to each other.
posted by brigita at 12:59 PM on September 11, 2001
I think we just began a transition, and to a state of affairs where "eroded freedoms" are the least of our worries.
It is precisely this fallout that terrified me the moment I heard the news, and I will oppose myself vigorously to you and all those who give in to fear and weakness to go down this path...
posted by rushmc at 1:00 PM on September 11, 2001
It is precisely this fallout that terrified me the moment I heard the news, and I will oppose myself vigorously to you and all those who give in to fear and weakness to go down this path...
posted by rushmc at 1:00 PM on September 11, 2001
The buildings are virtually gone. I hear there's something like 25 floors left. Every radio station is agreeing that they'll have to be torn down.
posted by tomorama at 1:01 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by tomorama at 1:01 PM on September 11, 2001
mossy, i also would expect the two buildings to be rebuilt, and perhaps even larger than before, in order to regain the world's tallest building status.
i find it interesting that giuliani has been more public than bush.
posted by mich9139 at 1:01 PM on September 11, 2001
i find it interesting that giuliani has been more public than bush.
posted by mich9139 at 1:01 PM on September 11, 2001
As far as the 70,000 potential visitors are concerned, i'm sure the number in the buildings at that time is MUCH lower. i actually went to the observation deck there a couple weeks ago (also on a tuesday), and i seem to remember the observation deck opening at around 10 or 11 AM.
posted by davidM at 1:02 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by davidM at 1:02 PM on September 11, 2001
Hmm, having thought about it, I reckon the first thing the US is going to do is put bin Laden top of their list, and send cruise missiles at Afghanistan until they get him..
Nothing we can do now except pass on info, saw this on bamf:
Contact numbers if you have relatives you need to check on:
Relatives of American Airlines passengers seeking information about relatives may call 1-800-245-0999.
United Airlines said friends or family members seeking information on flights may call 1-800-932-8555. United also said it would post any information it has on its Web site, United.com
Morgan Stanley, the largest tenant in the World Trade Center, established an emergency contact phone number for employees and their families: 1-888-883-4391.
The American Red Cross will need blood and platelet donors to come in over the next several days to help replenish the nation’s blood supply. Call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE to schedule an appointment.
Hope that helps
posted by Mossy at 1:03 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Nothing we can do now except pass on info, saw this on bamf:
Contact numbers if you have relatives you need to check on:
Relatives of American Airlines passengers seeking information about relatives may call 1-800-245-0999.
United Airlines said friends or family members seeking information on flights may call 1-800-932-8555. United also said it would post any information it has on its Web site, United.com
Morgan Stanley, the largest tenant in the World Trade Center, established an emergency contact phone number for employees and their families: 1-888-883-4391.
The American Red Cross will need blood and platelet donors to come in over the next several days to help replenish the nation’s blood supply. Call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE to schedule an appointment.
Hope that helps
posted by Mossy at 1:03 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
We've all been changed today. [via linkmachinego]
posted by feelinglistless at 1:08 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 1:08 PM on September 11, 2001
This is a very dark day -- a giant step backwards for the world.
posted by drunkkeith at 1:10 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by drunkkeith at 1:10 PM on September 11, 2001
Rebecca: I didn't mean the Palestinians. Or any specific race of people. I meant the people responible for this. I don't care if they're domestic or international. Somebody has to pay.
posted by owillis at 1:11 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 1:11 PM on September 11, 2001
Building 7 at the former WTC is on fire and may collapse.
posted by hijinx at 1:11 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by hijinx at 1:11 PM on September 11, 2001
My friend and his girlfriend are visiting the D.C. area, and were staying in Virginia about 5 miles away from the Pentagon when the plane hit. They said the windows shook on the impact, and now the skies are filled with F-15s.
What people are doing today, and what they are saying we should do to the people who did this, and any generalizations they are making about Muslims.. well, they aren't acceptable, but they may be excusable. Everyone is in a state of shock, and they are looking for something solid and easy to hold on to, like anger or revenge.
What they say today is hot-blooded. I personally will not judge my co-workers for demanding immediate, disproportionate retaliation as they sit there powerless, wondering how many have died, or what is going to happen next. I know that most of them are smarter and more tolerant than that, when it comes right down to it. Today is chaos. What people do today isn't important, it's what they do tomorrow that counts. The real test is going to be what we as a nation decide to do once we've had a chance to think.
posted by Hildago at 1:12 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
What people are doing today, and what they are saying we should do to the people who did this, and any generalizations they are making about Muslims.. well, they aren't acceptable, but they may be excusable. Everyone is in a state of shock, and they are looking for something solid and easy to hold on to, like anger or revenge.
What they say today is hot-blooded. I personally will not judge my co-workers for demanding immediate, disproportionate retaliation as they sit there powerless, wondering how many have died, or what is going to happen next. I know that most of them are smarter and more tolerant than that, when it comes right down to it. Today is chaos. What people do today isn't important, it's what they do tomorrow that counts. The real test is going to be what we as a nation decide to do once we've had a chance to think.
posted by Hildago at 1:12 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
This from the great minds at MSNBC: (**my emphasis**)
At the **Pentagon**, the nerve center of the nation’s military, one wall of the **hexagonal** building was destroyed when a hijacked commercial plane crashed into the adjacent helipad.
I'm glad the #1 news source for much of the wired public practices such stringent editing and fact-checking, and has *such* a strong command of geometry.
posted by poorhaus at 1:17 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
At the **Pentagon**, the nerve center of the nation’s military, one wall of the **hexagonal** building was destroyed when a hijacked commercial plane crashed into the adjacent helipad.
I'm glad the #1 news source for much of the wired public practices such stringent editing and fact-checking, and has *such* a strong command of geometry.
posted by poorhaus at 1:17 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
i saw an interview with the manager of the world trade center towers. he said that at that time of day, 8:45 am, most of the people who work there would have been there. each tower housed approximately 10,000 workers and over the course of a day they expected to host around 5,000 visitors.
posted by centrs at 1:19 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by centrs at 1:19 PM on September 11, 2001
I think they may other things on their minds than this.. Good point Hildago btw..
We must also remember that if prime suspect #1, bin Laden, did this, he didn't do this for the Palestinians. This is to carry own his own personal war against the US, whom he views as the root of all evil.
posted by Mossy at 1:20 PM on September 11, 2001
We must also remember that if prime suspect #1, bin Laden, did this, he didn't do this for the Palestinians. This is to carry own his own personal war against the US, whom he views as the root of all evil.
posted by Mossy at 1:20 PM on September 11, 2001
Where on earth is Bush?
posted by tranquileye at 1:20 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by tranquileye at 1:20 PM on September 11, 2001
Where on earth is Bush?
Strategic Air Command in Nebraska, last I heard.
posted by harmful at 1:22 PM on September 11, 2001
Strategic Air Command in Nebraska, last I heard.
posted by harmful at 1:22 PM on September 11, 2001
From CBC's website:
Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs has issued a phone number for anyone worried about friends or family in the New York area. Spokesperson Marie Lilkoff says Canadians can call 1-800-387-3124 for information.
posted by jedwin at 1:25 PM on September 11, 2001
Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs has issued a phone number for anyone worried about friends or family in the New York area. Spokesperson Marie Lilkoff says Canadians can call 1-800-387-3124 for information.
posted by jedwin at 1:25 PM on September 11, 2001
I was in DC, across the street from the Capitol, when I heard about the Pentagon getting hit. I grabbed my camera and headed down to the White House. I got some good shots of the Washington Monument with the smoke from the Pentagon in the background. Very odd here, like martial law, all the streets blocked, jet fighters overhead.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:25 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:25 PM on September 11, 2001
I have to admire the Village Voice's current front page.
posted by Scotch at 1:25 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Scotch at 1:25 PM on September 11, 2001
NY1 mentioned something about the Verizon building also being on fire and may collapse.
posted by riffola at 1:27 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 1:27 PM on September 11, 2001
Amazing series of pictures coming in through the AP on Yahoo.
posted by kokogiak at 1:30 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by kokogiak at 1:30 PM on September 11, 2001
(Screenshot of the aforementioned Voice front page, for posterity and etc.)
posted by Scotch at 1:34 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by Scotch at 1:34 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I'm in mild shock and I live in AZ, never mind my 2 bros. in NJ & PA. One of them was working in Lincoln or Rockefeller Ctr. when this happened, but he got away apparently. He probably had to use the Tappan Zee bridge to get across the Hudson.
My first thought was, this is either Islamic terrorists or some very well-hidden people who want us to think so, whoever might have something to gain or just want the attendant chaos and potential for martial law-type edicts to be enacted.
The other thing is: whoever did this had people who could fly 767s into buildings--not as easy as it looks I don't think. Very well planned. Interesting how this happened when the economy is tanking major.
My heart goes out to the suffering.
posted by aflakete at 1:39 PM on September 11, 2001
My first thought was, this is either Islamic terrorists or some very well-hidden people who want us to think so, whoever might have something to gain or just want the attendant chaos and potential for martial law-type edicts to be enacted.
The other thing is: whoever did this had people who could fly 767s into buildings--not as easy as it looks I don't think. Very well planned. Interesting how this happened when the economy is tanking major.
My heart goes out to the suffering.
posted by aflakete at 1:39 PM on September 11, 2001
From the Pittsburgh paper. What looks to be a standard interview-the-experts article re terrorism includes some intriguing, and need we say it deplorable, comments of support for the terrorism from a Penn.-based Neo-Nazi organization. The latter has a celebratory statement on its Web site.
posted by raysmj at 1:42 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by raysmj at 1:42 PM on September 11, 2001
Oh my god. I was at work all day, and could only hear about this through the radio. It was just gut wrenching. There was a man on the phone after the first crash, and as he related what was going on, he spotted the second plane. The emotions that poured out of that man, as the second plane slammed into the World Trade Center, was like a tidal wave. But coming home to the pictures was worse. To those in the area, you're in my thoughts.
posted by FunkyHelix at 1:43 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by FunkyHelix at 1:43 PM on September 11, 2001
This is the first I've gotten through to MeFi all day. I saw the events unfold on TV. At around 11:00 EST I was standing about 4 miles from down town starring at the smoke from a high ground. It was very weird. Most of my friends who work at the World Financial Center are fine. One has yet to call back. He works at the D&T; offices next door. Hopefully everyone is ok.
CNN carried some Taleban ambassador condemning the terrorism and claiming that they had nothing to do with it. For anyone who has recently flown out of Logan, New Ark or Dulles knows how tight the security in these airports are. I am amazed at how this whole thing was even planned or carried out.
I have to go through WTC at least thrice a week. There are at least a few hundred immigrant Muslims who work at the various stores, coffee shops and on the sidewalk. It is very likely that there are just as many dead innocent Muslims/Arabs under the WTC rubble as any other demographic group.
[On a personal note, had this happened a few hours later, I might have been stuck (if fortunate, dead, if not) under the WTC.]
posted by tamim at 1:47 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
CNN carried some Taleban ambassador condemning the terrorism and claiming that they had nothing to do with it. For anyone who has recently flown out of Logan, New Ark or Dulles knows how tight the security in these airports are. I am amazed at how this whole thing was even planned or carried out.
I have to go through WTC at least thrice a week. There are at least a few hundred immigrant Muslims who work at the various stores, coffee shops and on the sidewalk. It is very likely that there are just as many dead innocent Muslims/Arabs under the WTC rubble as any other demographic group.
[On a personal note, had this happened a few hours later, I might have been stuck (if fortunate, dead, if not) under the WTC.]
posted by tamim at 1:47 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
the following is an e-mailed eye witness account from a friend who used to work in the WTC. his wife worked in the world financial center next door.
Yes, I was at my desk when the first plane hit 1 wtc. I heard the explosion/collision, then saw the most terrifying sight of my life falling in front of my windows. I ran down 30 flights and joined the chaos in the wtc concourse. I was trying to get out of the wtc when the second plane hit right above the revolving doors I was about to exit through.
I fled through a subway transfer tunnel and came out north of wtc. I went into a thrift shop, tried to make calls (no phone service, cell or other) when I heard comossion and saw people running in terror. One of those people was [my wife]. I ran her down and went with her and her boss to his apt not far from wtc. To make a long story short, we're unbelievably shaken. Were you able to let everybody know what happened? I got some more emails, so I'm assuming the word has gotten out.
I may not be able to access the net again today. I have no access at home and have no job!
Love,
T
posted by brigita at 1:53 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Yes, I was at my desk when the first plane hit 1 wtc. I heard the explosion/collision, then saw the most terrifying sight of my life falling in front of my windows. I ran down 30 flights and joined the chaos in the wtc concourse. I was trying to get out of the wtc when the second plane hit right above the revolving doors I was about to exit through.
I fled through a subway transfer tunnel and came out north of wtc. I went into a thrift shop, tried to make calls (no phone service, cell or other) when I heard comossion and saw people running in terror. One of those people was [my wife]. I ran her down and went with her and her boss to his apt not far from wtc. To make a long story short, we're unbelievably shaken. Were you able to let everybody know what happened? I got some more emails, so I'm assuming the word has gotten out.
I may not be able to access the net again today. I have no access at home and have no job!
Love,
T
posted by brigita at 1:53 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
It was good the way that there seems to have been far less panic than their could have been - can you imagine how the people who were in the building during the bomb as well feel now?
posted by Mossy at 1:57 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Mossy at 1:57 PM on September 11, 2001
I am looking for your personal stories of this horrible day to post on World New York. If you have one, and don't have the means to publish it online yourself, please consider letting me post it for you. If you already have a story posted online, please send me the URL so that I may link to it.
Thanks, in any case.
Grant Barrett
gbarrett@worldnewyork.org
World New York
posted by Mo Nickels at 1:58 PM on September 11, 2001
Thanks, in any case.
Grant Barrett
gbarrett@worldnewyork.org
World New York
posted by Mo Nickels at 1:58 PM on September 11, 2001
For anyone who has recently flown out of Logan, Newark or Dulles knows how tight the security in these airports are. I am amazed at how this whole thing was even planned or carried out.
Disagree, at least wrt Logan, which struck me as shambolic compared to NYC and European terminals.
I got on a train today at 2pm -- 9am EDT. The next three hours listening to the radio was heartbreaking. People around me were trying to call friends in New York, aghast.
Manhattan looks wrong.
posted by holgate at 1:59 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Disagree, at least wrt Logan, which struck me as shambolic compared to NYC and European terminals.
I got on a train today at 2pm -- 9am EDT. The next three hours listening to the radio was heartbreaking. People around me were trying to call friends in New York, aghast.
Manhattan looks wrong.
posted by holgate at 1:59 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
As I go home tonite, I give all my blessings to those involved in this terrible event. I would also like to thank those that posted news. I really appreciate communties such as these that have sprung forward thanks to the internet. To all Metafilterians (?) and others peace be with you.
Actually, I will probably log back on when I get home.
posted by Stretch at 2:00 PM on September 11, 2001
Actually, I will probably log back on when I get home.
posted by Stretch at 2:00 PM on September 11, 2001
I don't quite know what to post here. Holloway and I are watching all this on TV this morning, I just wanted to say that our thoughts are with America right now.
rebeccablood posted
don't you see that this is a turning point?
- we go on as we have and this kind of thing continues
My mother who was born during an air-raid in WWII emailed me this morning to say "England and Europe came through the war. Life goes on and Right prevails."
(She's being brisk because she knows I am sitting here with my head in my hands, weeping at the TV).
I have faith in the American people's ability to learn to deal effectively if these attacks continue, as Europe had to survive through air-raids.
All bets are off. Politics don't matter right now--it's more important that we be unified and support each other. Did I vote for Bush? No. Will I support my president during this mind-boggling tragedy? You bet your ass.
I applaud you, Frykitty.
Anyway, deepest sympathy from NZ
posted by Catch at 2:14 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
rebeccablood posted
don't you see that this is a turning point?
- we go on as we have and this kind of thing continues
My mother who was born during an air-raid in WWII emailed me this morning to say "England and Europe came through the war. Life goes on and Right prevails."
(She's being brisk because she knows I am sitting here with my head in my hands, weeping at the TV).
I have faith in the American people's ability to learn to deal effectively if these attacks continue, as Europe had to survive through air-raids.
All bets are off. Politics don't matter right now--it's more important that we be unified and support each other. Did I vote for Bush? No. Will I support my president during this mind-boggling tragedy? You bet your ass.
I applaud you, Frykitty.
Anyway, deepest sympathy from NZ
posted by Catch at 2:14 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I flew out of Logan on Sunday (on Northwest) and they didn't ask to see my boarding pass as I went through the security zone.
posted by SuperBreakout at 2:17 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by SuperBreakout at 2:17 PM on September 11, 2001
for those of you still away from tv, cnn just said that another building (they think #7) in downtown nyc collapsed.
posted by karen at 2:23 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by karen at 2:23 PM on September 11, 2001
The president is on his way back to Washington, DC, now. I was very uneasy with him being in Nebraska (I live an hour from the SAC).
I think I am going to go to church tonight. It seems right, somehow.
posted by eilatan at 2:24 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I think I am going to go to church tonight. It seems right, somehow.
posted by eilatan at 2:24 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
blackbeltjones:- an eye for an eye makes the world blind - very insightful
Justice is conscious, hate is unconscious. Hate only begets hate. Don't become subjugated by the terrorist's fear frenzy, and lash out. Those responsible will be brought to justice. But we win, not when the axe falls on the executioner's block, but when we keep our senses, and the world's principles of democracy and freedom, in focus. Terrorism likes not the cold calculating eye of justice, prefers instead the chaos of panic.
World peace begins with you.
We go on as we always have, hopefully wiser and kinder and more unified than before.
To those directly involved and all Americans: my thoughts and prayers go out to you, as do the thoughts and prayers of the whole world.
posted by 3l3m3nt at 2:26 PM on September 11, 2001
Justice is conscious, hate is unconscious. Hate only begets hate. Don't become subjugated by the terrorist's fear frenzy, and lash out. Those responsible will be brought to justice. But we win, not when the axe falls on the executioner's block, but when we keep our senses, and the world's principles of democracy and freedom, in focus. Terrorism likes not the cold calculating eye of justice, prefers instead the chaos of panic.
World peace begins with you.
We go on as we always have, hopefully wiser and kinder and more unified than before.
To those directly involved and all Americans: my thoughts and prayers go out to you, as do the thoughts and prayers of the whole world.
posted by 3l3m3nt at 2:26 PM on September 11, 2001
Amen, eilatan. Church is a good place to be tonight.
posted by donnagirl at 2:26 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by donnagirl at 2:26 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I just saw #7 collapse on MSNBC... it is so scary. Is it actually over, or is there more to come?
posted by owillis at 2:27 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 2:27 PM on September 11, 2001
F-16 jets just left Portland International (PDX). I don't have any information beyond that, and while I'll speculate that they are armed, they may have been returning to the base they're stationed at. On the other hand, they took off with the wind (versus against it, as is normal) and went in an odd direction. There's also one F16 still sitting on the tarmac, and the garages that house the ready jets (F15s) are all open.
Just thought I'd pass that along. I do know they were fueled on the runway versus in the hangars, as is the norm.
posted by SpecialK at 2:27 PM on September 11, 2001
Just thought I'd pass that along. I do know they were fueled on the runway versus in the hangars, as is the norm.
posted by SpecialK at 2:27 PM on September 11, 2001
"and any generalizations they are making about Muslims.. well, they aren't acceptable, but they may be excusable"
I'd have to disagree. It's all been very shocking, unbelievable and tragic BUT racism and religious prejudice are never excusable. Being a muslim myself I don't see why what these barbarians have done should reflect upon me one bit. I'm condemning them as much as the next person.
posted by Saima at 2:32 PM on September 11, 2001 [5 favorites]
I'd have to disagree. It's all been very shocking, unbelievable and tragic BUT racism and religious prejudice are never excusable. Being a muslim myself I don't see why what these barbarians have done should reflect upon me one bit. I'm condemning them as much as the next person.
posted by Saima at 2:32 PM on September 11, 2001 [5 favorites]
i've spent the entire morning alternating between a state of mind-numbing shock and soul-twisting sadness.
as i watch the news i see the city i used to call my playground covered in rubble and smoke.
50,000+ dead because someone disagreed with an opinion our country had.
and now i'm at work. trying to deal with this as people call me to tell me their computers are acting funny.
*sigh*
posted by jcterminal at 2:33 PM on September 11, 2001
as i watch the news i see the city i used to call my playground covered in rubble and smoke.
50,000+ dead because someone disagreed with an opinion our country had.
and now i'm at work. trying to deal with this as people call me to tell me their computers are acting funny.
*sigh*
posted by jcterminal at 2:33 PM on September 11, 2001
SpecialK: yeah, when i used to work there, i'd see the same thing every day.
but i'm sure this time, the pilots are little more 'awake'.
posted by jcterminal at 2:35 PM on September 11, 2001
but i'm sure this time, the pilots are little more 'awake'.
posted by jcterminal at 2:35 PM on September 11, 2001
They had the TVs on in all of my classes at school today. Normal events were basically cancelled, and everyone was watching very closely throughout the entire day. i live in Minnesota, but everyone still seemed to be very effected.
I'm amazed that they managed to pull this off. Wasn't there a report earlier about the national mall being hit?
What really scares me, though, is the measures we're going to go to to retailiate if we can identify the people responsible. I fear World War 3 may be upon us, and nuclear war is close at hand. I fear for the world at this point.
posted by Theiform at 2:36 PM on September 11, 2001
I'm amazed that they managed to pull this off. Wasn't there a report earlier about the national mall being hit?
What really scares me, though, is the measures we're going to go to to retailiate if we can identify the people responsible. I fear World War 3 may be upon us, and nuclear war is close at hand. I fear for the world at this point.
posted by Theiform at 2:36 PM on September 11, 2001
hmm.. thats odd.. F-16s don't have a very long range, do they?
I have been praying for those in the World Trade Center - thankfully all my friends in the area are safe, but so many more..
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to destruction generally.. Let us also pray for the future, that this kind of tragedy never happens again.
posted by Mossy at 2:36 PM on September 11, 2001
I have been praying for those in the World Trade Center - thankfully all my friends in the area are safe, but so many more..
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to destruction generally.. Let us also pray for the future, that this kind of tragedy never happens again.
posted by Mossy at 2:36 PM on September 11, 2001
What caught my eye was the 18 minute difference between the first plane crash and the second one. I mean 18 minutes is a long time. Ten minutes after the first crash the people in control (generalizing here, I mean air traffic, intillegence, etc.) should have already been securing the building(s). Anyways, the President received word at 9:05 A.M. EDT as reported by CNN I think.
Think about it, that's EIGHTEEN whole minutes! In that span they could have figured out if another plane was on its way (off track etc.) and shot it down. But by God, 18 minutes is a long time. IMHO, the second crash SHOULD have been prevented, no doubt. Your thoughts?
posted by HoldenCaulfield at 2:46 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Think about it, that's EIGHTEEN whole minutes! In that span they could have figured out if another plane was on its way (off track etc.) and shot it down. But by God, 18 minutes is a long time. IMHO, the second crash SHOULD have been prevented, no doubt. Your thoughts?
posted by HoldenCaulfield at 2:46 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
mathowie - that last image... I don't know if it's irony or tragedy, or just sad coincidence that the image is hosted on akamai, possibly the last moment of the life of one of akamai's founders distributed to the world via his own system.
I feel bad for wanting to know the death toll, it's like some screwed up scorecard that will justify/alleviate some of my emotions.
posted by kokogiak at 2:47 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
I feel bad for wanting to know the death toll, it's like some screwed up scorecard that will justify/alleviate some of my emotions.
posted by kokogiak at 2:47 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
This is so very sad. It's comforting, however, to know that the Internet community can help each other make sense of such things--reading over all of these posts has helped put many of my thoughts into perspective, from hatred, to fear, to anger, to concern and back again.
Anyone in the Austin, TX area who wants to go to a church tonight, even if you haven't been in a while or have never been, might consider First United Methodist Church at 12th and Lavaca at 7pm, where the emphasis will be on prayers for the victims and families and no one will try to evangelize you or anything like that.
posted by vraxoin at 2:48 PM on September 11, 2001
Anyone in the Austin, TX area who wants to go to a church tonight, even if you haven't been in a while or have never been, might consider First United Methodist Church at 12th and Lavaca at 7pm, where the emphasis will be on prayers for the victims and families and no one will try to evangelize you or anything like that.
posted by vraxoin at 2:48 PM on September 11, 2001
BBC News haven't reported the new building collapse yet -- in fact they're being positively local...
posted by feelinglistless at 2:48 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 2:48 PM on September 11, 2001
Holden what about the pentagon crash *one hour* later?
posted by mathowie at 2:49 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by mathowie at 2:49 PM on September 11, 2001
The US shooting down a domestic passenger jet? That would have really been something.
Also, I was amazed at the opposite: 18 minutes is such a short period of time in terms of organizing the attack. It was clearly very, very well organized.
posted by arielmeadow at 2:50 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Also, I was amazed at the opposite: 18 minutes is such a short period of time in terms of organizing the attack. It was clearly very, very well organized.
posted by arielmeadow at 2:50 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I dont think theres military force quick enough to get a fighter in the air over NYC in 18 minutes.
I do wonder if the plane that went down in PA was shot down by our fighter planes.
posted by owillis at 2:50 PM on September 11, 2001
I do wonder if the plane that went down in PA was shot down by our fighter planes.
posted by owillis at 2:50 PM on September 11, 2001
I just wonder how long it will take for things to get back to whatever sense of the world "normal" we'll be able to get back to.
Putting aside the loss of human lives in the tens of thousands, the affect this will have on the economy and life as we know it in the US will never be the same.
I cannot believe I just typed "loss of life in the tens of thousands." I cannot even comprehend a number like that. Not in a single morning, anyway.
I was driving home form work (in Boston) thinking "the world trade center was there this morning... now it isn't."
Everyone with a Blog should really write up their thoughts on this day. This is something you'll be telling your grandchildren about.
Not that I *can* put my thoughts into words.
posted by bondcliff at 2:51 PM on September 11, 2001
Putting aside the loss of human lives in the tens of thousands, the affect this will have on the economy and life as we know it in the US will never be the same.
I cannot believe I just typed "loss of life in the tens of thousands." I cannot even comprehend a number like that. Not in a single morning, anyway.
I was driving home form work (in Boston) thinking "the world trade center was there this morning... now it isn't."
Everyone with a Blog should really write up their thoughts on this day. This is something you'll be telling your grandchildren about.
Not that I *can* put my thoughts into words.
posted by bondcliff at 2:51 PM on September 11, 2001
I absolutely assume that the two hijacked planes that "crashed" were shot down after refusing to comply with whatever orders they were given.
posted by rebeccablood at 2:53 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by rebeccablood at 2:53 PM on September 11, 2001
Holden - some news corp was showing the first airplane's tracked route (a hairpin turn over upstate NY, south toward Manhattan). In other words, they knew as it was happening that it was a rogue flight, so presumably they knew about the other three as well. Maybe they were slow to jump to such a horiffic conclusion and start shooting down domestic flights over US soil. Or maybe they were too slow or hesitant... either way, some people knew what was going on as it happened.
posted by kokogiak at 2:53 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by kokogiak at 2:53 PM on September 11, 2001
also, in response to Saima, the reactions of people may not be excuseable, but they are understandable. There are a lot of very scared people now, and they are attaching themselves to the rage and stereotypes that come from that fear.
Its a shame that although there are 1.2 billion muslims in the world, we are judged by the actions of these terrorists. I get terrible reactions from people sometimes - I think tmrw will indeed be the main point, once people we know to be reasonable and intelligent have had time to think..
Let me also make the point that if this was a fundamentalist attack by someone like bin Laden, this is not jihad, nor vaguely islamic. Once military jihad has been called, the muslim is barred from killing those that are scholars or part of the infrastructrue of the enemy (as according to the hadith (teachings) of Mohammad (pbuh)). That makes this murder.
I'm sure I heard after the first two planes that F-16s were tracking a plane in the Washington area..
posted by Mossy at 2:54 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Its a shame that although there are 1.2 billion muslims in the world, we are judged by the actions of these terrorists. I get terrible reactions from people sometimes - I think tmrw will indeed be the main point, once people we know to be reasonable and intelligent have had time to think..
Let me also make the point that if this was a fundamentalist attack by someone like bin Laden, this is not jihad, nor vaguely islamic. Once military jihad has been called, the muslim is barred from killing those that are scholars or part of the infrastructrue of the enemy (as according to the hadith (teachings) of Mohammad (pbuh)). That makes this murder.
I'm sure I heard after the first two planes that F-16s were tracking a plane in the Washington area..
posted by Mossy at 2:54 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Barbara Olson, former federal prosecutor & staple on political commentary shows, died in the plane crash at the Pentagon. She was able to use her cell phone to call her husband, Solicitor-General Ted Olson, and tell him that her plane had been hijacked.
(((shudder)))
posted by davidmsc at 3:00 PM on September 11, 2001
(((shudder)))
posted by davidmsc at 3:00 PM on September 11, 2001
CNN: has video of anti-aircraft fires, and explosions from incoming missiles in Kabul, Afghanistan
posted by owillis at 3:03 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 3:03 PM on September 11, 2001
holden, it was my impression that they originally thought the first plane was just an accident and it was a total surprise when the second plane came in. i don't think 18 minutes was enough time to process that another plane was "on the loose", to try to find it and then shoot it down which would have been the only way to stop it. it seems like planes should have been grounded by the time the one that hit the pentagon took off though, matt.
rebecca, witnesses on the ground in pennsylvania say that it looks like the plane was put into a deliberate dive. nobody mentioned it being shot down, though that was my first guess.
posted by centrs at 3:03 PM on September 11, 2001
rebecca, witnesses on the ground in pennsylvania say that it looks like the plane was put into a deliberate dive. nobody mentioned it being shot down, though that was my first guess.
posted by centrs at 3:03 PM on September 11, 2001
For today, after everything I've read and seen, I am completely shocked. I could never fathom what it was like to be in that building when this happened, or what it was like to be in those planes knowing that you were witnessing the end. Today will have an effect on our nation like nothing has ever before.
I don't see a war of any sort (as mentioned), only because the ones responsible are radicals...but I do see an immense anger that will swell for the rest of this year, and years to come. I see violence on our part in some form of retaliation. I hope that we do the right thing. I hope we identify these people for who they are and do not cloud our intentions with anger or discriminate those not responsible. Closure will not happen in my lifetime, my heart and tears go out to the victims families, I don't know what I could say...
posted by samsara at 3:04 PM on September 11, 2001
I don't see a war of any sort (as mentioned), only because the ones responsible are radicals...but I do see an immense anger that will swell for the rest of this year, and years to come. I see violence on our part in some form of retaliation. I hope that we do the right thing. I hope we identify these people for who they are and do not cloud our intentions with anger or discriminate those not responsible. Closure will not happen in my lifetime, my heart and tears go out to the victims families, I don't know what I could say...
posted by samsara at 3:04 PM on September 11, 2001
BBC reports attacks and retaliation in Cabal. Missiles exploding.
posted by feelinglistless at 3:04 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 3:04 PM on September 11, 2001
BBC reports missile attack in Kabul - this is not good, I suspect that it would be exactly what Bin Laden wants.
posted by johnny novak at 3:06 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by johnny novak at 3:06 PM on September 11, 2001
One thing that I keep coming back to with regards to the collapsing of the buildings. I just don't get how all 3 buildings went down in a relatively neat pile. I mean they just didn't fall down, they imploded. I wonder if there were bombs placed in the two towers that were triggered.
posted by riffola at 3:08 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 3:08 PM on September 11, 2001
BBC reports possible attack on Afganistan. It's starting.
posted by feelinglistless at 3:11 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 3:11 PM on September 11, 2001
I think the buildings' fall patterns make sense with the points of impact. If the impact was lower, the buildings may have toppled more, but, as it was, the top weakened section just seemed to crumble inward and take everything else with it as it fell.
posted by Mrmuhnrmuh at 3:11 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Mrmuhnrmuh at 3:11 PM on September 11, 2001
Does anyone know yet if the US is behind the explosions in Afghanistan? CNN and MSNBC haven't given coherent reports yet.
posted by Johannahh at 3:12 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Johannahh at 3:12 PM on September 11, 2001
arielmeadow and owillis (1st letters not capitals, as they're not on your posts):
First of all I am not even going to touch the suggestion of killing a few to save 10 x few. That's a very sensitive subject, and has advocates on both sides, with reason. Personally though, I feel that shooting down a plane instead of toppling the WTC is fully justified.
Eighteen minutes is ample time to get a jet in the sky. Military bases in NYS are on standby 24/7 (interpret "standby" as you wish). So getting a jet up there should not have been particularly difficult.
And finally the Pentagon. Now that is a real disgrace. One hour after the fact, and they can't even secure the airspace. That's 60+ minutes gone by. Feel free to chip in.
posted by HoldenCaulfield at 3:12 PM on September 11, 2001
First of all I am not even going to touch the suggestion of killing a few to save 10 x few. That's a very sensitive subject, and has advocates on both sides, with reason. Personally though, I feel that shooting down a plane instead of toppling the WTC is fully justified.
Eighteen minutes is ample time to get a jet in the sky. Military bases in NYS are on standby 24/7 (interpret "standby" as you wish). So getting a jet up there should not have been particularly difficult.
And finally the Pentagon. Now that is a real disgrace. One hour after the fact, and they can't even secure the airspace. That's 60+ minutes gone by. Feel free to chip in.
posted by HoldenCaulfield at 3:12 PM on September 11, 2001
Yesterday's news (BBC) has stated that the leader of the Afghani resistence had survived an assassination attempt. I wouldn't be surprised if that is the cause behind the Kabul attacks right now.
posted by mkn at 3:12 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by mkn at 3:12 PM on September 11, 2001
who wants a bet bin Laden is out of Afghanistan already?
the buildings fell like that because of the lattice structure they had - the supports were on the outside, not via pillars, and so the main structural weakness is straight down. I think.
posted by Mossy at 3:13 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
the buildings fell like that because of the lattice structure they had - the supports were on the outside, not via pillars, and so the main structural weakness is straight down. I think.
posted by Mossy at 3:13 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
There are lots of F15 planes in the air here in Boston. Scary stuff to hear a plane overhead when I just heard the news people say that all flights are grounded...
posted by Johannahh at 3:13 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Johannahh at 3:13 PM on September 11, 2001
Riffola, as I've been explaining all day, the main supports of those buildings were in the corners. Everything else was a lattice. If you watch the videos carefully, you'll see that the corners were still standing, it was the weight of the decapitated top of the building coming down that pulled the inside of the buildings down like a stack of pancakes.
I sure as hell hope we're not bombing/attacking afghanistan. By god, I hope not.
posted by SpecialK at 3:14 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I sure as hell hope we're not bombing/attacking afghanistan. By god, I hope not.
posted by SpecialK at 3:14 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Oh, crap, CBS is reporting that we nailed afghanistan with cruise missiles 10 minutes ago.
posted by SpecialK at 3:15 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by SpecialK at 3:15 PM on September 11, 2001
Plane crashed in Dayton Ohio. Anyone get the feeling that there's a lot we are not being told? They said all commerical airlines were accounted for before.
posted by xammerboy at 3:16 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by xammerboy at 3:16 PM on September 11, 2001
where's your source, xammerboy? please post a source asap, this is scary stuff. i'm watching fox news in boston and have not had any new alerts since the cnn footage of fires in afghanistan.
posted by Johannahh at 3:18 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Johannahh at 3:18 PM on September 11, 2001
I have a feeling theres gonna be a whole world of interesting things happening tmrw...
posted by Mossy at 3:19 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by Mossy at 3:19 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Eighteen minutes is ample time to get a jet in the sky.
But would it be enough time to find a safe way to bring down an airliner around/in NY city? Surely that would cause a hell of a lot of damage wherever it came down? I can see how the decision didn't get made in time.
posted by Catch at 3:21 PM on September 11, 2001
But would it be enough time to find a safe way to bring down an airliner around/in NY city? Surely that would cause a hell of a lot of damage wherever it came down? I can see how the decision didn't get made in time.
posted by Catch at 3:21 PM on September 11, 2001
What were Nostradamous's conditions for WW3?
posted by feelinglistless at 3:23 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 3:23 PM on September 11, 2001
Nostradamus said lotsa things, I'll try and find some..
Today, Sept. 11, in History
1941 - Ground was broken on construction of the Pentagon
Now thats odd..
posted by Mossy at 3:24 PM on September 11, 2001
Today, Sept. 11, in History
1941 - Ground was broken on construction of the Pentagon
Now thats odd..
posted by Mossy at 3:24 PM on September 11, 2001
ABC is now reporting that it wasn't us in afghanistan, it was internal struggles.
posted by SpecialK at 3:25 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by SpecialK at 3:25 PM on September 11, 2001
Listless, that's a good point. Where was BinLaden born?
posted by SpecialK at 3:26 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by SpecialK at 3:26 PM on September 11, 2001
Doesn't NYC have a 24 hour guard? I know Mumbai (Bombay) does. There are 4 fighters circling the city round the clock, 2 going clockwise and 3 going anti-clockwise. I remember one of my friends telling me that NYC had something similar. So I don't think there was any time factor as such about the F16s reaching the airliners.
posted by riffola at 3:26 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 3:26 PM on September 11, 2001
why the towers collapsed, courtesy Slate.
how do you go to war, when there's no country or gov't to go to war with?
oh, and we got mention on Salon, too. apparently, our "reactions are more muted."
posted by epersonae at 3:27 PM on September 11, 2001
how do you go to war, when there's no country or gov't to go to war with?
oh, and we got mention on Salon, too. apparently, our "reactions are more muted."
posted by epersonae at 3:27 PM on September 11, 2001
Internal struggles? thats good.. lets hope it doesn't go and give bush ideas though :) he hasn't had the easiest of years, has he?
Muted? Better than being a bigot..
posted by Mossy at 3:30 PM on September 11, 2001
Muted? Better than being a bigot..
posted by Mossy at 3:30 PM on September 11, 2001
The US must not stoop to the level of the terrorists, it must identify the culprits and then work with it's allies to bring these people to justice.
posted by johnny novak at 3:30 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by johnny novak at 3:30 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
White House press secretary reports that the explosions in Kabul are not part of a US military strike.
Reported by Wolf Blitzer on CNN.
posted by linux at 3:33 PM on September 11, 2001
Reported by Wolf Blitzer on CNN.
posted by linux at 3:33 PM on September 11, 2001
Sky TV have just reported that the explosions in Afganistan are civil unrest
posted by feelinglistless at 3:33 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 3:33 PM on September 11, 2001
US not involved in Kabul explosions according to press accompanying Bush, according to CNN
posted by riffola at 3:33 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 3:33 PM on September 11, 2001
The rumored plane crash in Dayton Ohio was actually only a sonic boom caused by some planes taking off from the Wright-Patterson Air Force base.
posted by turaho at 3:34 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by turaho at 3:34 PM on September 11, 2001
I am trapped at work, and the only way I am getting current info is from Mefi users, so thanks to you all. Has anyone been able to find out at what time The President will speak tonight?
posted by bradth27 at 3:34 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by bradth27 at 3:34 PM on September 11, 2001
Mossy - yeah, I've been glad to see such thoughtfulness in this discussion. I am sad, confused, numb, like many here. Don't have anyone in either DC or NYC to worry about (except maybe a long-long high school friend), but I worry for our whole world. I fear that if we retaliate, then it will prompt more reaction, and that cycles of this will grip the world for many years to come. I fear that this is the end of the happiest era that our country may know for a long, long time, and the beginning of something dark. I hope, against hope, that we can keep our humanity.
posted by epersonae at 3:35 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by epersonae at 3:35 PM on September 11, 2001
> I absolutely assume that the two hijacked planes
> that "crashed" were shot down after refusing to comply
> with whatever orders they were given.
That was late enough so that, if the original pilots were still in control at gunpoint, they may well known what was going on and have flown into the ground deliberately. "Everyone on this flight is as good as dead, we won't let them use the plane to kill more."
The flight recorders may say, when they're found.
posted by jfuller at 3:35 PM on September 11, 2001
> that "crashed" were shot down after refusing to comply
> with whatever orders they were given.
That was late enough so that, if the original pilots were still in control at gunpoint, they may well known what was going on and have flown into the ground deliberately. "Everyone on this flight is as good as dead, we won't let them use the plane to kill more."
The flight recorders may say, when they're found.
posted by jfuller at 3:35 PM on September 11, 2001
Would you rather have a couple of mid-sized buildings destroyed, or the World Trade Center?
posted by HoldenCaulfield at 3:36 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by HoldenCaulfield at 3:36 PM on September 11, 2001
9 PM - Bush Speech, they're showing new footage, not bleeping out the "cuss" words. I appluad CNN for this, it adds to what people were feeling, and not buttering it up.
posted by geoff. at 3:37 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by geoff. at 3:37 PM on September 11, 2001
hey, salon.com mentioned my post, nice one.. Reading their article though, it looks like there will be a rise of tension in certain areas - let us all hope people keep their heads and don't do rash things (ie beat up brown people)
posted by Mossy at 3:37 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by Mossy at 3:37 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
RE: feelinglistless and Nostradamus
Not that I believe this stuff, but it was sent to me this morning:
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" ,
"The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
- Nostradamus 1654
posted by Booboolina at 3:39 PM on September 11, 2001
Not that I believe this stuff, but it was sent to me this morning:
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" ,
"The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
- Nostradamus 1654
posted by Booboolina at 3:39 PM on September 11, 2001
geoff -- I agree. It's a little shocking to hear f*ck on CNN, but I prefer the unedited "raw" footage to slick shiny news footage. I think the producer guy who grabbed a tourist's video camera and got close footage of the 2nd tower falling should get a raise.
posted by Johannahh at 3:40 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Johannahh at 3:40 PM on September 11, 2001
The NYC wireless group has posted some horrifying pictures taken by someone near the scene.
posted by pb at 3:40 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by pb at 3:40 PM on September 11, 2001
The guy from CBS was very very close to the first tower when it collapsed
posted by riffola at 3:44 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 3:44 PM on September 11, 2001
"I hope I live. I hope I live." That amateur video on CNN was horrifying.
posted by gleuschk at 3:45 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
posted by gleuschk at 3:45 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
That Egyptian reaction is sad.. What we see there is people who only see that the US has been injured, not that innocent people have died - once this realisation sinks in, I doubt they will be as happy..
Another interesting thing, can you imagine the ethnic mix in the WTC? There must be people from just about every nation there..
posted by Mossy at 3:46 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Another interesting thing, can you imagine the ethnic mix in the WTC? There must be people from just about every nation there..
posted by Mossy at 3:46 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
RE: feelinglistless and Nostradamus
feelingdeeplyashamedandwishinghecoulddeletepreviouspost
(although -- bugger...)
posted by feelinglistless at 3:47 PM on September 11, 2001
feelingdeeplyashamedandwishinghecoulddeletepreviouspost
(although -- bugger...)
posted by feelinglistless at 3:47 PM on September 11, 2001
US press conference at congress: "The President speaks as one voice for the American people..."
posted by feelinglistless at 3:49 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 3:49 PM on September 11, 2001
US press conference at congress: confirm that Afganistan bombing not the US.
Will not characterise things as 'an act of war' directly -- choosing words carefully.
posted by feelinglistless at 3:53 PM on September 11, 2001
Will not characterise things as 'an act of war' directly -- choosing words carefully.
posted by feelinglistless at 3:53 PM on September 11, 2001
The entire nation will be behind Bush, no matter what he does. Thats kind of scary actually..
Its at times like this I curse my dialup - every time I click preview, 5 new posts pop up :)
posted by Mossy at 3:53 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Its at times like this I curse my dialup - every time I click preview, 5 new posts pop up :)
posted by Mossy at 3:53 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
centrs
Some Egyptian taxi drivers and students celebrate - this is one of the worst pieces of journalism I have ever seen.
posted by johnny novak at 3:54 PM on September 11, 2001
Some Egyptian taxi drivers and students celebrate - this is one of the worst pieces of journalism I have ever seen.
posted by johnny novak at 3:54 PM on September 11, 2001
US press conference at congress: Defcon Delta confirmed. Say they have no information about shooting down any planes (when asked about the Pittsburgh flight)
posted by feelinglistless at 3:57 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 3:57 PM on September 11, 2001
Barbara Olson, former federal prosecutor & staple on political commentary shows, died in the plane crash at the Pentagon. She was able to use her cell phone to call her husband, Solicitor-General Ted Olson, and tell him that her plane had been hijacked.
I heard this. I also heard that she said that the terrorists were using box-cutter/razorblades. It has been suggested that the weapons were probably mostly plastic and assembled after they got on the planes. Apparently there were numerous cell phone calls from the hijacked planes and they have been sorting through the information gathered from these calls.
Apparently the President has finally been allowed to return to Washington.
Have any military or other goverment officials been confirmed dead from the Pentagon attack?
posted by bargle at 3:58 PM on September 11, 2001
I heard this. I also heard that she said that the terrorists were using box-cutter/razorblades. It has been suggested that the weapons were probably mostly plastic and assembled after they got on the planes. Apparently there were numerous cell phone calls from the hijacked planes and they have been sorting through the information gathered from these calls.
Apparently the President has finally been allowed to return to Washington.
Have any military or other goverment officials been confirmed dead from the Pentagon attack?
posted by bargle at 3:58 PM on September 11, 2001
I heard a while back that NO high-level officials have been killed at the Pentagon.
posted by mkn at 4:01 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by mkn at 4:01 PM on September 11, 2001
"That Egyptian reaction is sad"
I would go so far as to say the journalism displayed there is incendiary and totally irresponsible. It is not an overstatement to say that the work of one editor allowing that piece of crap to go out may result in the death of an innocent Egyptian this very night.
Shameful!
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:05 PM on September 11, 2001
I would go so far as to say the journalism displayed there is incendiary and totally irresponsible. It is not an overstatement to say that the work of one editor allowing that piece of crap to go out may result in the death of an innocent Egyptian this very night.
Shameful!
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:05 PM on September 11, 2001
Bush just landed in Washington -- it's at times like President Bartlett doesn't seem like such a bad idea -- what you need is a fictional president
posted by feelinglistless at 4:05 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 4:05 PM on September 11, 2001
I heard the death toll there was 100? Can't remember where from though.. Bush is back at Washington now I believe.
posted by Mossy at 4:05 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Mossy at 4:05 PM on September 11, 2001
I don't know about the military or government officials, but Daniel Lewin died on American flight 11. He was the CFO, co-founder, and board member of Akamai, a prominent Boston internet company.
posted by Johannahh at 4:06 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Johannahh at 4:06 PM on September 11, 2001
hmm, should have worded my comment about that Yahoo Egyptian article better. And thought more. Guess my brain is a bit fried from today..
Incendiary journalism sells - you should have seen the newspapers before and after England vs Germany in the World Cup qualifiers a while back.. Expect more :(
posted by Mossy at 4:09 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Incendiary journalism sells - you should have seen the newspapers before and after England vs Germany in the World Cup qualifiers a while back.. Expect more :(
posted by Mossy at 4:09 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
don't you think that if air force one was really the only airplane in the sky, that it would be a damn easy target to hit??
posted by mabelcolby at 4:13 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by mabelcolby at 4:13 PM on September 11, 2001
I've got to go to bed. I dread to think what I'm going to wake up to...
posted by feelinglistless at 4:13 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 4:13 PM on September 11, 2001
Just spoke to my brother-in-law. He works in the WTC on the first floor, and wasn't there today because he forgot documents at home and had to go back. Six men from his work group are missing. They were higher up in the tower retreiving documents from another office. Jeez. Just running a damn office errand. My gods.
posted by FunkyHelix at 4:16 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by FunkyHelix at 4:16 PM on September 11, 2001
My sister lives in Arlington and was on her way to the mall next to the Pentagon when she saw the Pentagon blow up as it was hit by the plane. She's okay.
I have received several emails and calls from people in New York surprisingly. It's a wonder any calls can get in or out of there.
In Boston, it is eerily quiet. I heard a plane go over my house at around 3 EDT. It was strange as everything was so quiet and all air traffic supposively halted since this morning.
I'm scared to even think what will happen in the next few days (weeks, months, years?) politically as a result of this.
posted by rathikd at 4:19 PM on September 11, 2001
I have received several emails and calls from people in New York surprisingly. It's a wonder any calls can get in or out of there.
In Boston, it is eerily quiet. I heard a plane go over my house at around 3 EDT. It was strange as everything was so quiet and all air traffic supposively halted since this morning.
I'm scared to even think what will happen in the next few days (weeks, months, years?) politically as a result of this.
posted by rathikd at 4:19 PM on September 11, 2001
my boyfriend and i went to a wedding in los angeles where he needed to wear his kilt, including a small dagger that went with it. we had our baggage checked and the woman measured it against her name tag which was about 4 inches and the blade just passed, size-wise. i think a box cutter or razor blades would have definitely made it.
why don't they have locks on cockpit doors? remember when the drunk guy almost took down a virgin airlines plane?
the extremist in me would go as far to suggest that after the pilots have locked themselves in, they can communicate with the cabin but not vice versa. that way no demands can be articulated to them by hi-jackers. the crew could have an alarm to notify the pilots in case of medical emergencies.
posted by centrs at 4:20 PM on September 11, 2001
why don't they have locks on cockpit doors? remember when the drunk guy almost took down a virgin airlines plane?
the extremist in me would go as far to suggest that after the pilots have locked themselves in, they can communicate with the cabin but not vice versa. that way no demands can be articulated to them by hi-jackers. the crew could have an alarm to notify the pilots in case of medical emergencies.
posted by centrs at 4:20 PM on September 11, 2001
centrs, I have a feeling a lot of ideas like those will eventually make it into production. Actually, I am fairly certain the cockput does have a lock component, but it probably isn't engaged by default. Any commercial pilots or plane buffs on MeFi?
posted by cell divide at 4:22 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by cell divide at 4:22 PM on September 11, 2001
don't you think that if air force one was really the only airplane in the sky, that it would be a damn easy target to hit??
no. by whom? The thing'll probably be at 50,000 feet - well out of the range of most hand held SAM's. Also, it won't be the only plane in the sky - there'll be loads and loads of fighter's too.
The coincidedences of who made it out and who didn't just throw our mortaility into even sharper relief. I nkow that this is really spurring me on to make the most of my life - maybe these people will not have died in vain if their sacrifice can get us to change?
My aunt should have been there - in a meeting - but she wasn't - she delayed her flight a day. So she's alive now.
posted by nedrichards at 4:26 PM on September 11, 2001
no. by whom? The thing'll probably be at 50,000 feet - well out of the range of most hand held SAM's. Also, it won't be the only plane in the sky - there'll be loads and loads of fighter's too.
The coincidedences of who made it out and who didn't just throw our mortaility into even sharper relief. I nkow that this is really spurring me on to make the most of my life - maybe these people will not have died in vain if their sacrifice can get us to change?
My aunt should have been there - in a meeting - but she wasn't - she delayed her flight a day. So she's alive now.
posted by nedrichards at 4:26 PM on September 11, 2001
from the BBC (full story):
As the drama began, the cockpit doors on all planes would have been locked - standard practice in the US, although not in the UK and Europe.
But the doors are not reinforced, and even without explosives, experts say it would be relatively easy to gain access - either by force or by forcing a cabin crew member to lead the way.
posted by epersonae at 4:28 PM on September 11, 2001
As the drama began, the cockpit doors on all planes would have been locked - standard practice in the US, although not in the UK and Europe.
But the doors are not reinforced, and even without explosives, experts say it would be relatively easy to gain access - either by force or by forcing a cabin crew member to lead the way.
posted by epersonae at 4:28 PM on September 11, 2001
Didn't the protagonist in The Turner Diaries die by crashing a plane full of explosives into the Pentagon?
posted by swell at 4:32 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by swell at 4:32 PM on September 11, 2001
The events today really do show the fragility of life - that story by FunkyHelix brings it all sharply into focus - possibly dead on an errand :(
ned richards, this was not a sacrifice, it was a tragedy. If we can draw some good from it though, those people who died can be honoured through our change. You have your life, go and make the most of it - there's no time like the present..
posted by Mossy at 4:34 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
ned richards, this was not a sacrifice, it was a tragedy. If we can draw some good from it though, those people who died can be honoured through our change. You have your life, go and make the most of it - there's no time like the present..
posted by Mossy at 4:34 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Should it be considered disappointing or merely typical that Jorn is using this to push his political agenda?
posted by NortonDC at 4:36 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by NortonDC at 4:36 PM on September 11, 2001
Put your goddamned agendas, no matter what they are, aside.
posted by SpecialK at 4:40 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by SpecialK at 4:40 PM on September 11, 2001
Bush address is now at 8:30PM.
Anyone playing at politics right now should look at themselves and realize that they have no goddamn soul left in them--they've truly become nothing but political machines.
posted by darukaru at 4:44 PM on September 11, 2001
Anyone playing at politics right now should look at themselves and realize that they have no goddamn soul left in them--they've truly become nothing but political machines.
posted by darukaru at 4:44 PM on September 11, 2001
An hour beforehand, in a horrible coincidence, I was talking over lunch with a friend about mutual friends training to be airline pilots. The number of facilities for big 7x7 pilots is miniscule: most European carriers use the one in Michigan. Which is why the logistics of this are beyond me. But this is the point of those who commit such atrocities: to force us to ask questions of ourselves that should never need asking.
posted by holgate at 4:46 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by holgate at 4:46 PM on September 11, 2001
This was very ingenious - but how can something like this ever be stopped unless we introduce martial law? How hard are airplanes to fly? This is beyond suicide bombing, that requires a low level of sophistication - there is something more here.. Whats very odd is that there was no indication (was there?) of any of these planes being hijacked, ie no msgs at all from the planes - how could this happen?? What info does the black box give?
I just saw that amatuer video of the plane.
Oh my.
posted by Mossy at 4:57 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
I just saw that amatuer video of the plane.
Oh my.
posted by Mossy at 4:57 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
apparently 200 firefighters dead, 78 police officers in NY (from FARK)
posted by Mossy at 5:03 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Mossy at 5:03 PM on September 11, 2001
there's speculation that the mariott hotel in the neighborhood may soon fall from structural damages.
posted by patricking at 5:03 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by patricking at 5:03 PM on September 11, 2001
mossy: ned richards, this was not a sacrifice, it was a tragedy
of course - you are right. these people would definatly not have chosen for this to happen. Incorrect choice of words. It's too late, sorry.
posted by nedrichards at 5:05 PM on September 11, 2001
of course - you are right. these people would definatly not have chosen for this to happen. Incorrect choice of words. It's too late, sorry.
posted by nedrichards at 5:05 PM on September 11, 2001
It's going to be weeks, months, before they recover the black boxes (they don't transmit) from the wreckage of the WTC. They may even have been destroyed (unlikely, but this is unprecedented). They're searching for the black box of the plane which went down in Somerset County right now, though.
posted by darukaru at 5:07 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by darukaru at 5:07 PM on September 11, 2001
Reports on MSNBC of rioting in Brooklyn.
posted by adampsyche at 5:10 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by adampsyche at 5:10 PM on September 11, 2001
its ok ned, I've been posting some odd stuff today while frantically searching for my friends across the ocean in NY(mashallah they're all ok, just a little shaken and dusty) - what info does a black box give (I'm really curious)
posted by Mossy at 5:11 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Mossy at 5:11 PM on September 11, 2001
AOPA has animated gifs of the flight paths of three of the plaves.
posted by swell at 5:14 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by swell at 5:14 PM on September 11, 2001
There are two boxes, actually. One is a voice recorder which records the transmissions from the cockpit from the pilot(s). The other is an instrument recorder which records the readings and status of some (most/all?) of the instruments in the cockpit.
posted by elfgirl at 5:15 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by elfgirl at 5:15 PM on September 11, 2001
ummmm... that should read "*of* the pilots from the cockpit".
posted by elfgirl at 5:18 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by elfgirl at 5:18 PM on September 11, 2001
apparently (NBC), the first plane's pilot left his mike on, and a controller heard, in English: "Don't do anything foolish" over it before communications were cut.
Judging by what you said elfgirl, would there be that much new information? Maybe if the sounds inside the cockpits were recorded..
posted by Mossy at 5:20 PM on September 11, 2001
Judging by what you said elfgirl, would there be that much new information? Maybe if the sounds inside the cockpits were recorded..
posted by Mossy at 5:20 PM on September 11, 2001
Marriot is history
posted by adampsyche at 5:20 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by adampsyche at 5:20 PM on September 11, 2001
a close friend offers the following piece of advice to unix geeks around the world on this tragic, tragic day:
posted by dagny at 5:20 PM on September 11, 2001
rm -rf /bin/laden
posted by dagny at 5:20 PM on September 11, 2001
Mike Daisey has some good first person accounting of getting out of the city on his web site here.
posted by jessamyn at 5:25 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by jessamyn at 5:25 PM on September 11, 2001
THE SCALE of the attacks and the loss of life - mostly in New York City?s World Trade Center, but also in Pittsburgh and Washington - ensured that ?no option has been taken off the table,? senior U.S. officials said. Asked if that included nuclear weapons, one senior official said: ?I said no option is out of the question. That?s precisely what I mean.?
posted by FunkyHelix at 5:30 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by FunkyHelix at 5:30 PM on September 11, 2001
And who do you blow up.. Ssh, Bush is on tv, and he looks spooked as hell..
posted by Mossy at 5:32 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by Mossy at 5:32 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
"We will make no distinction between those that committed these acts, and those that harbor them."
-Bush
...or something very near to that respect. Depending on how bold he intends this quote, this could be quite bad for the avoiding of international conflict.
posted by Dane at 5:38 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
-Bush
...or something very near to that respect. Depending on how bold he intends this quote, this could be quite bad for the avoiding of international conflict.
posted by Dane at 5:38 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
That was actually a decent speech, best I've seen him make... right balance of comfort and firmness, not bad dubya..
Key sentence:
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbour them"
Afghanistan are facing imminent retaliation. America also beleives that Syria, Sudan and Iran are bankrolling bin Laden. They may also be in trouble.
Hmm, if bin Laden did this, he surely would have anticipated that he would be suspect #1?
posted by Mossy at 5:38 PM on September 11, 2001
Key sentence:
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbour them"
Afghanistan are facing imminent retaliation. America also beleives that Syria, Sudan and Iran are bankrolling bin Laden. They may also be in trouble.
Hmm, if bin Laden did this, he surely would have anticipated that he would be suspect #1?
posted by Mossy at 5:38 PM on September 11, 2001
Mossy - at least in the case of the plane that went down in Pennsylvania, it could give us an indication why it nosed down like it did. Presumably they didn't set out to attack a field in rural Pennsylvania. I suspect that the pilot was not as incapacitated as they intended.....
posted by elfgirl at 5:40 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by elfgirl at 5:40 PM on September 11, 2001
Not a bad speech. Sounds like a war coming to me.
posted by owillis at 5:40 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by owillis at 5:40 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine gives her view of the day in Washington via her journal.
posted by FunkyHelix at 5:40 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by FunkyHelix at 5:40 PM on September 11, 2001
Maybe in attacking rural Pennsylvania, the terrorists are trying to give the U.S. a message. "You are safe nowhere, not even in cornfields!"
posted by Dane at 5:42 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Dane at 5:42 PM on September 11, 2001
NBC: "there were credible threats keeping the President out of Washington earlier today" (from Karl Rove)
posted by owillis at 5:43 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 5:43 PM on September 11, 2001
It will be hard to sleep tonight. After the roller coaster I had with where the hell my dad was, with my in-laws, and everything else, and practically crying on the way home to get my son from day care, this is just too much. I would wish that this would all go away when I wake up. Shit is going to change. My dad already is saying that the markets are going to be fucked. This is definitely a changing point in our history to a degree that we can not even imagine yet.
posted by adampsyche at 5:49 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by adampsyche at 5:49 PM on September 11, 2001
Depending on how bold he intends this quote, this could be quite bad for the avoiding of international conflict.
I find your statement a little ridiculous, no personal offense intended. I think the only option here is war...war in the international theater. From the official statements that CNN reported, at least France, Italy, and Israel are behind us ... and Egypt, Iran, Iraq, and Palestine against us.
Frankly, anyone who hijacks FOUR commercial airliners and crashes them into skyscrapers is kind of asking for World War III.
posted by Johannahh at 5:55 PM on September 11, 2001
I find your statement a little ridiculous, no personal offense intended. I think the only option here is war...war in the international theater. From the official statements that CNN reported, at least France, Italy, and Israel are behind us ... and Egypt, Iran, Iraq, and Palestine against us.
Frankly, anyone who hijacks FOUR commercial airliners and crashes them into skyscrapers is kind of asking for World War III.
posted by Johannahh at 5:55 PM on September 11, 2001
Actually, Johannahh, the only country to make an official statement 'against' the US was Iraq. You can get the information here.
posted by chaz at 5:58 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by chaz at 5:58 PM on September 11, 2001
Ah well ppl, its now 1:52am here in britland, and I've gone and exhausted myself today - worrying about friends and relations in New York.. Thankfully they are all fine, but I doubt I'll treat them in the same way again - you only realise how much you care for something once you think it may be taken away - next time I see them, they're gonna be hugged to death :)
The world has just got the biggest shock from a single event in over 50 years - changes are coming soon, in all our lives, wherever we are..
With events like this illustrating how life is short, I would urge all of you, my fellow brothers and sisters out there, to live your lives to the fullest out of respect for those whose lives were tragically cut short today if nothing else..
I will.
Keep it real, keep it safe, and increase the peace..
Mossy
posted by Mossy at 6:00 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
The world has just got the biggest shock from a single event in over 50 years - changes are coming soon, in all our lives, wherever we are..
With events like this illustrating how life is short, I would urge all of you, my fellow brothers and sisters out there, to live your lives to the fullest out of respect for those whose lives were tragically cut short today if nothing else..
I will.
Keep it real, keep it safe, and increase the peace..
Mossy
posted by Mossy at 6:00 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
An honest-to-God, speaking-for-the-whole-paper, editorial from the Washington Post is remarkably strident: "It is an act of war, and must be treated as such."
posted by NortonDC at 6:01 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by NortonDC at 6:01 PM on September 11, 2001
First time post, long time reader. I just want to say that the people of NYC really came together for this tragedy. I was out and about walking around with my camera and the way people were treating each other was like a brother or sister. It was amazing watching the number of cars pulled over with their radios on news stations that people gathered around or the water stations set up around the city. I feel as though today proved why New York is the greatest city.
posted by spudworks at 6:07 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by spudworks at 6:07 PM on September 11, 2001
DON'T DRINK TAP WATER. My mother who is CEO of a hospital in upstate new york just got a biological warfare warning from the CDC. She told me not to drink bottled water (personally I was heading for the vodka figuring the alcohol would kill any microbes). The radio just mentioned that biological warfare has been suspected although there is no evidence. The only disease they have specifically named is anthrax, but still, better be careful.
Also I'd like to thank everyone for posting news, for awhile Mefi was the only way I couldn find out what was going on.
posted by miss-lapin at 6:11 PM on September 11, 2001
Also I'd like to thank everyone for posting news, for awhile Mefi was the only way I couldn find out what was going on.
posted by miss-lapin at 6:11 PM on September 11, 2001
if the people of NYC can pull together in the face of this tragedy and act with compassion and dignity, then there is no other sign that can be given to the world that illuminates the ideal that we cannot be broken.
sadly, i don't believe the people responsible, or those who are thinking in the same vein, will hear it.
posted by jcterminal at 6:11 PM on September 11, 2001
sadly, i don't believe the people responsible, or those who are thinking in the same vein, will hear it.
posted by jcterminal at 6:11 PM on September 11, 2001
miss-lapin: Please provide a trustworthy, verifiable citation. I'm sure you trust your mother, but I'd rather hear it from CNN.
posted by NortonDC at 6:15 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by NortonDC at 6:15 PM on September 11, 2001
My statement was ridiculous, probably... but I disagree that international war is the only option. Thus far there is no specific country that seems involved in this act of terrorism... or any other acts of past significance. No country has appeared and said "Arg! [country] hates you and your sissy mothers and you must fight us!"
It is difficult to declare war on someone when there is no one on which to justifiably declare war. Yes, these countries house terrorists and that is extremely nconvenient... but it is not a direct sign of aggression from their government... not enough to war.
So this is the problem. We have little pockets of terrorists sitting in little protective countries, and we cannot act on the terrorists without seriously pissing off the country in question. If your spit is with the schoolyard bully, you probably would be best not to anger his alcoholic and hot-blooded father.
posted by Dane at 6:25 PM on September 11, 2001
It is difficult to declare war on someone when there is no one on which to justifiably declare war. Yes, these countries house terrorists and that is extremely nconvenient... but it is not a direct sign of aggression from their government... not enough to war.
So this is the problem. We have little pockets of terrorists sitting in little protective countries, and we cannot act on the terrorists without seriously pissing off the country in question. If your spit is with the schoolyard bully, you probably would be best not to anger his alcoholic and hot-blooded father.
posted by Dane at 6:25 PM on September 11, 2001
Damn. The tone on MSNBC. Calling Iraqis "those bastards"... and such. Not that anger isn't justified and all, but it is just bizarre to hear it on TV.
But, after today, nothing is bizarre anymore.
Good to see that Cuba is offering aid. Thanks, Fidel!
posted by adampsyche at 6:28 PM on September 11, 2001
But, after today, nothing is bizarre anymore.
Good to see that Cuba is offering aid. Thanks, Fidel!
posted by adampsyche at 6:28 PM on September 11, 2001
The recent images of WTC remind of a set from Planet Of The Apes.
The loss is monumental
posted by riffola at 6:30 PM on September 11, 2001
The loss is monumental
posted by riffola at 6:30 PM on September 11, 2001
Yes, these countries house terrorists and that is extremely nconvenient... but it is not a direct sign of aggression from their government... not enough to war.
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbour them"
It doesn't seem like Bush shares the same view as you...
posted by VeGiTo at 6:33 PM on September 11, 2001
"We will make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbour them"
It doesn't seem like Bush shares the same view as you...
posted by VeGiTo at 6:33 PM on September 11, 2001
without seriously pissing off the country in question. If your spit is with the schoolyard bully, you probably would be best not to anger his alcoholic and hot-blooded father.
That is exactly who Bush was speaking to in his speech, telling any that have harbored terrorists that there number has just come up.
posted by NortonDC at 6:33 PM on September 11, 2001
That is exactly who Bush was speaking to in his speech, telling any that have harbored terrorists that there number has just come up.
posted by NortonDC at 6:33 PM on September 11, 2001
im mike from malaysia;
my heartfelt, saddest condolences to all those affected by the tragedy. i was watching cnn throughout the night ... and i feel absolutely appalled by what has happened.
posted by arrowhead at 6:36 PM on September 11, 2001
my heartfelt, saddest condolences to all those affected by the tragedy. i was watching cnn throughout the night ... and i feel absolutely appalled by what has happened.
posted by arrowhead at 6:36 PM on September 11, 2001
This could be bad. I read posts from folks who've found out their loved ones are safe, but I've gotten exactly one response from the many I've tried and failed to phone or email in the Apple today. I suppose I should just keep trying.
posted by mirla at 6:41 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by mirla at 6:41 PM on September 11, 2001
Interesting: at least one of the Malaysian Petronas towers is being evacuated.
posted by NortonDC at 6:41 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by NortonDC at 6:41 PM on September 11, 2001
Call 1-212-560-2730 for NYC Info Hotline instead of 911
posted by riffola at 6:57 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 6:57 PM on September 11, 2001
Amazon has already collected $49,000+ for the Red Cross Disaster Relief fund, they are waiving their usual fees and sending Red Cross all the money.
posted by owillis at 6:59 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 6:59 PM on September 11, 2001
NORTON DC-as I mentioned ABC emergency news coverage on the radio has said that there is suspicion of biological warfare and mentioned anthrax specifically (I don't know if the site has mentioned it yet)-since my mother is a hospital administrator who is accepting injured she was informed by the CDC to be on the look out for certain patterns matching biological warfare-I'm hurt and insulted by your comment-I was simply trying to put out information and made the source clear- you had the right to make your own decision-personally I'm holed up in my apartment in new york and my hands are shaking as I write-I was only trying to help
posted by miss-lapin at 7:01 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by miss-lapin at 7:01 PM on September 11, 2001
I missed that there were two sources. I apologize.
posted by NortonDC at 7:04 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by NortonDC at 7:04 PM on September 11, 2001
Health dept. says there is no chemical agent or asbestos hazards at this point. (Mayor of NY on CBS)
posted by riffola at 7:06 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 7:06 PM on September 11, 2001
In A.D. 2001, war was beginning.
President: What happen?
Operator: Somebody set us down the WTC.
We get signal.
President: What!
Operator: Main screen turn on.
President: It's you!!
Bin Laden: How are you gentlemen!!
All your plane are belong to us.
You are on the way to destruction.
President: What you say!!
Bin Laden: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Ha ha ha ha...
This tiny break I hope you'll all accept comes with heartfelt condolences and concern from Italy.
posted by sja at 7:10 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
That was pretty fucking tasteless.
posted by owillis at 7:14 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
posted by owillis at 7:14 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
It's refreshing to know that in the midst of such evil, people can come together. As some one earlier stated, a situation like this brings out the best in people. The thousands of people who have donated time, effort, suport, and blood deserve much praise. To the rescue workers, fire fighters, and police officers of today, I have nothing but the highest respect for you. To the families affected by today's events, my thoughts and prayers are with you.
posted by richelle at 7:15 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by richelle at 7:15 PM on September 11, 2001
"They will have to rebuild the buildings - for symbolic purposes if nothing else.."
I disagree. A new WTC would be an obvious target for whomever succeeds Bin Laden.
And, the only positive to come from this tragedy -- the twin towers were pretty ugly IMHO -- is that the skyline will be much better without them.
posted by drunkkeith at 7:16 PM on September 11, 2001
I disagree. A new WTC would be an obvious target for whomever succeeds Bin Laden.
And, the only positive to come from this tragedy -- the twin towers were pretty ugly IMHO -- is that the skyline will be much better without them.
posted by drunkkeith at 7:16 PM on September 11, 2001
drunkkeith: WTC was symbolic of the power NYC and on a global scale the US weild, just like the Empire State Building. I think they will rebuild something bigger and better.
posted by riffola at 7:22 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 7:22 PM on September 11, 2001
It's amazing to watch Amazon's Red Cross donation page: you can refresh the page once every five seconds and watch it jump by massive increments.
posted by arielmeadow at 7:24 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by arielmeadow at 7:24 PM on September 11, 2001
No one is rebuilding a WTC. No one would have built it except a government agency. Tall buildings are undesirable. They're phalic, but not practical. And unattractive.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:24 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by ParisParamus at 7:24 PM on September 11, 2001 [1 favorite]
Paris, what about the new black building being built on 2nd ave in midtown? (I think) That's a little taller than Chrysler.
posted by riffola at 7:28 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 7:28 PM on September 11, 2001
Riffola: it's Donald Trump's latest phalic building. It's also a lot smaller than the WTC.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:34 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 7:34 PM on September 11, 2001
CBS news is reporting that there were explosives found under the George Washington bridge.
posted by jgilliam at 7:37 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by jgilliam at 7:37 PM on September 11, 2001
miss-lapin: don't take the comment seriously. On the 'Net, you can write anything. Something so serious deserves verification. Also, is the bio-concern fact-based, or just part of a protocol which is followed in this "type of situation"?
posted by ParisParamus at 7:38 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 7:38 PM on September 11, 2001
(meant "personally"; not "seriously")
posted by ParisParamus at 7:38 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by ParisParamus at 7:38 PM on September 11, 2001
While trolling for World Trade Center information, I stumbled across a wealth of interesting information at New York's World Trade Center, A Living Archive.
From the tragically ironic quote department: "I feel this way about it. World trade means world peace and consequently the World Trade Center buildings in New York ... had a bigger purpose than just to provide room for tenants. The World Trade Center is a living symbol of man's dedication to world peace ... beyond the compelling need to make this a monument to world peace, the World Trade Center should, because of its importance, become a representation of man's belief in humanity, his need for individual dignity, his beliefs in the cooperation of men, and through cooperation, his ability to find greatness." - Minoru Yamasaki, chief architect of the World Trade Center
posted by bvadnais at 7:50 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
From the tragically ironic quote department: "I feel this way about it. World trade means world peace and consequently the World Trade Center buildings in New York ... had a bigger purpose than just to provide room for tenants. The World Trade Center is a living symbol of man's dedication to world peace ... beyond the compelling need to make this a monument to world peace, the World Trade Center should, because of its importance, become a representation of man's belief in humanity, his need for individual dignity, his beliefs in the cooperation of men, and through cooperation, his ability to find greatness." - Minoru Yamasaki, chief architect of the World Trade Center
posted by bvadnais at 7:50 PM on September 11, 2001 [2 favorites]
Can anyone explain to me why all the talking heads are so convinced that this was a "very complicated operation" that likely required the resources of a nation-state?
I just don't buy it.
posted by brantstrand at 8:00 PM on September 11, 2001
I just don't buy it.
posted by brantstrand at 8:00 PM on September 11, 2001
Let's say 5-10 people per plane. All getting on the right plane, all carrying weapons. At least one on each of the 4 flights would have to know how to fly a plane (and used the onboard navigation system). Ever flown with 5-6 people someplace? Be thankful you haven't it's a mess. Now try to get it coordinated over multiple airports. The WTC planes were within 18 minutes, a small time frame. Top it all off, noone noticed till it was too late.
posted by geoff. at 8:07 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by geoff. at 8:07 PM on September 11, 2001
Amazon's Red Cross Fund is now at $86k+. If you refresh, it seems to be going up at a steady $2/sec.
They're taking anything from $1 to $50. Put in your $2 for your second in history; and if you feel plucky, get it back as a deductible next April.
posted by linux at 8:09 PM on September 11, 2001
They're taking anything from $1 to $50. Put in your $2 for your second in history; and if you feel plucky, get it back as a deductible next April.
posted by linux at 8:09 PM on September 11, 2001
Just heard (on CNN) there are cell phone calls that may be coming from survivors in the WTC
posted by tj at 8:24 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by tj at 8:24 PM on September 11, 2001
CNN: 2 or 3 people arrested near GW bridge with van loaded with explosives
posted by owillis at 8:31 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 8:31 PM on September 11, 2001
CNN: NYPD Chief says the 3 men are being held by the FBI but there were no explosives and weren't on GW Bridge.
posted by owillis at 8:34 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 8:34 PM on September 11, 2001
The guy on ABC gave a pretty detailed retelling of a cell phone call from someone trapped in the WTC under rubble with two (living) police officers. Seemed like an awful lot of info to have come from rumour, and I like the idea, so I'm believing it.
posted by jeb at 8:50 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by jeb at 8:50 PM on September 11, 2001
CNN TV is also noting that people trapped within the WTC rubble are making cellphone calls.
Kind of makes you guilty for jamming up the network with frantic "are you okay" calls.
posted by linux at 8:55 PM on September 11, 2001
Kind of makes you guilty for jamming up the network with frantic "are you okay" calls.
posted by linux at 8:55 PM on September 11, 2001
CNN has a video of the first plane crashing into WTC 1. Also a very clear video showing the second plane hit WTC 2.
posted by riffola at 9:23 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by riffola at 9:23 PM on September 11, 2001
Wild eyes, box knives, retractable razor blades, sky terror, toy planes crashing into toy buildings, but they aren't toys, and the explosions are real and surreal, and it's an unholy peek into a nighmare damnation, and the rain is shards of glass and bone, all to dust...
Beyond comprehension. I wanna go home. I wanna go splash in the inflatable pool painted with the starfish and the seahorsies that my father blew up one purple-faced breath at a time, that he set up in our unfenced backyard where all the neighbor kids came to play.
I'm tired, and sick, and I just wanna go home.
posted by Opus Dark at 9:28 PM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
Beyond comprehension. I wanna go home. I wanna go splash in the inflatable pool painted with the starfish and the seahorsies that my father blew up one purple-faced breath at a time, that he set up in our unfenced backyard where all the neighbor kids came to play.
I'm tired, and sick, and I just wanna go home.
posted by Opus Dark at 9:28 PM on September 11, 2001 [3 favorites]
Fox: FBI searching areas in Broward/Daytona Beach in FL.
posted by owillis at 9:31 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by owillis at 9:31 PM on September 11, 2001
Rebecca - thanks for that; that certainly ups the ante, but not impossible for an NGO I think.
Geoff - I don't agree with your analysis:
>Let's say 5-10 people per plane.
Doubt it. I expect 3 could do it.
>All getting on the right plane
C'mon. That's not hard.
>all carrying weapons.
Not necessarily. One could have carried the weapons.
>Ever flown with 5-6 people someplace?
>Be thankful you haven't it's a mess.
My high school spring break group managed.
All I'm saying is, a dedicated band a preponderance of which were intelligent, could put this together on their own. MS Flight Sim 2000, a Boeing Pilot's manual, and some dogged determinism could work 3 times out of 4, I think. Think that's a bit extreme? Maybe it is, but I think it beats the party line via Occam's Razor.
posted by brantstrand at 9:35 PM on September 11, 2001
Geoff - I don't agree with your analysis:
>Let's say 5-10 people per plane.
Doubt it. I expect 3 could do it.
>All getting on the right plane
C'mon. That's not hard.
>all carrying weapons.
Not necessarily. One could have carried the weapons.
>Ever flown with 5-6 people someplace?
>Be thankful you haven't it's a mess.
My high school spring break group managed.
All I'm saying is, a dedicated band a preponderance of which were intelligent, could put this together on their own. MS Flight Sim 2000, a Boeing Pilot's manual, and some dogged determinism could work 3 times out of 4, I think. Think that's a bit extreme? Maybe it is, but I think it beats the party line via Occam's Razor.
posted by brantstrand at 9:35 PM on September 11, 2001
Because of some ongoing problems (long story) with the cable/satellite service at our apartment building, my wife and I have been without any type of television service for the past few months. During this entire tragedy today -- the worst possible time to be without TV -- we have depended entirely on the Internet for our information. I just wanted to thank everyone on MeFi for being a central part of keeping us informed. The links that many of you posted today were invaluable to us. Thanks so much.
posted by JAcrimonaut at 9:43 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by JAcrimonaut at 9:43 PM on September 11, 2001
Fox: black box breakers may have been disabled on the planes
Bin Laden supporters were overheard on cell phones on the planes
posted by owillis at 9:48 PM on September 11, 2001
Bin Laden supporters were overheard on cell phones on the planes
posted by owillis at 9:48 PM on September 11, 2001
they said in three of the four crashes it was probably too hot for the black boxes to survive anyway. overheard by whom? how do they know that?
posted by centrs at 9:58 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by centrs at 9:58 PM on September 11, 2001
Fox is reporting all that.
Here's the story on search warrants in FL
posted by owillis at 10:02 PM on September 11, 2001
Here's the story on search warrants in FL
posted by owillis at 10:02 PM on September 11, 2001
I do think the news media is rushing to conclusions here. I was watching Peter Jennings, they ran a list of recent terrorist acts, which included Lebanon, USS Cole, etc., then flipped to a newer screen, which included WTC. They missed OK City. As you may recall, early on that was widely reported to be the work of Islamic extremists. However, it turned out to be inspired by "The Turner Diaries", and domestic terrorist Timothy McVeigh.
From The ADL site (on the Turner Diaries):
...Hopefully, I'll be able to manage a low-level air burst directly over the center of the Pentagon. Failing that, I'll at least try to fly as close as I can before I'm shot down.
In an epilogue, the narrator explains that Turner's suicide bomb crippled the Pentagon and became a turning point in the Revolution. ...
We still don't know who did it.
posted by swell at 10:07 PM on September 11, 2001
From The ADL site (on the Turner Diaries):
...Hopefully, I'll be able to manage a low-level air burst directly over the center of the Pentagon. Failing that, I'll at least try to fly as close as I can before I'm shot down.
In an epilogue, the narrator explains that Turner's suicide bomb crippled the Pentagon and became a turning point in the Revolution. ...
We still don't know who did it.
posted by swell at 10:07 PM on September 11, 2001
Some thoughts:
I read about an ultrasharp ceramic kitchen knife which would never show up in an x-ray machine (unless metal was added for this purpose.
I just listened to an interview with one of the designers of the WTC towers, who said they have no sprinkler system and were designed such that in the event of a fire, floors would be sealed to contain the fire (with a "safe" area on each floor. He also said that there was no way people above the floor(s) where a plain entered would have been able to get out.
Also, he clarified that not 50,000, but 500,000 people work in the WTC. I know the surrounding area is packed 8:30-9:30 am. This is staggering.
Jerusalem Post Radio
posted by ParisParamus at 10:08 PM on September 11, 2001
I read about an ultrasharp ceramic kitchen knife which would never show up in an x-ray machine (unless metal was added for this purpose.
I just listened to an interview with one of the designers of the WTC towers, who said they have no sprinkler system and were designed such that in the event of a fire, floors would be sealed to contain the fire (with a "safe" area on each floor. He also said that there was no way people above the floor(s) where a plain entered would have been able to get out.
Also, he clarified that not 50,000, but 500,000 people work in the WTC. I know the surrounding area is packed 8:30-9:30 am. This is staggering.
Jerusalem Post Radio
posted by ParisParamus at 10:08 PM on September 11, 2001
thanks for the link, leias.... i don't know if that's even more jaw-breaking than the second crash...
just wondering (not trying to make light of the situation), how do a handful of hijackers armed with just knives (from what i hear), keep 50+ people hostage? maybe i'm thinking of it wrong, as "i'd need to be in the situation to know." i guess i'm still stuck on "if onlys"...
posted by lotsofno at 10:16 PM on September 11, 2001
just wondering (not trying to make light of the situation), how do a handful of hijackers armed with just knives (from what i hear), keep 50+ people hostage? maybe i'm thinking of it wrong, as "i'd need to be in the situation to know." i guess i'm still stuck on "if onlys"...
posted by lotsofno at 10:16 PM on September 11, 2001
how do a handful of hijackers armed with just knives keep 50+ people hostage?
Stand up, grab a passing flight attendant, cut their throat to show you mean business, and announce that you and your buddies have taken control of the plane. I know I wouldn't try to go Passenger 57 on their arses.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 10:27 PM on September 11, 2001
Stand up, grab a passing flight attendant, cut their throat to show you mean business, and announce that you and your buddies have taken control of the plane. I know I wouldn't try to go Passenger 57 on their arses.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 10:27 PM on September 11, 2001
I think they kept control by telling people they had a bomb, as was reported on KTVU Oakland, when they interviewed the family who received a phone call from a passenger. I'm sure they told the passengers if they tried anything, they would detonate the bomb.
posted by Kafkaesque at 10:31 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by Kafkaesque at 10:31 PM on September 11, 2001
Paris, I listened to that interview as well. I think that the architect gave incorrect information. Every other source is saying 50,000. 8 million people live in the NYC area. It seems inconceivable that 1/16 work in one set of buildings.
posted by LeiaS at 10:43 PM on September 11, 2001
posted by LeiaS at 10:43 PM on September 11, 2001
I read about an ultrasharp ceramic kitchen knife...
Hasn't anybody read Snow Crash? Think of Raven's plate-glass knives. *shudder*
posted by harmful at 7:14 AM on September 12, 2001
Hasn't anybody read Snow Crash? Think of Raven's plate-glass knives. *shudder*
posted by harmful at 7:14 AM on September 12, 2001
I'm trying to find a news story to link ... on the radio it was reported this morning that the hijackers used mace on the passengers of flight 11. Trying to find a story to back this up.
posted by Johannahh at 8:52 AM on September 12, 2001
posted by Johannahh at 8:52 AM on September 12, 2001
how do a handful of hijackers armed with just knives keep 50+ people hostage?
Remember, the passengers likely had no idea the hijackers were going to intentionally crash the plane. (Correct me if I'm wrong and the cell phone traffic on the planes indicates otherwise.)
So they probably thought their best course of action was to ride it all out and wait for the inevitable negotiations with authorities. They thought they were hostages who'd probably survive, which is a better fate than dead attempted hero.
posted by crabwalk at 9:35 AM on September 12, 2001
Remember, the passengers likely had no idea the hijackers were going to intentionally crash the plane. (Correct me if I'm wrong and the cell phone traffic on the planes indicates otherwise.)
So they probably thought their best course of action was to ride it all out and wait for the inevitable negotiations with authorities. They thought they were hostages who'd probably survive, which is a better fate than dead attempted hero.
posted by crabwalk at 9:35 AM on September 12, 2001
Keep them in your prayers, we will make it through.
posted by Yardsale at 9:53 AM on September 12, 2001
posted by Yardsale at 9:53 AM on September 12, 2001
My friend Jeff thinks that we Americans -- as a society -- deserved this. He says, "Our imperfections are what we should all be discussing today: We don’t vote. (The irony of there being a primary in New York City yesterday!) When we do, we don’t elect competent leaders. We don’t pay attention to U.S. foreign policy, let alone understand it. We demand nothing from our media other than entertainment, which it provides to the exclusion of all else. We have mediocre schools that do little save train our children to follow the crowd and become more eager consumers. We repress people around the globe because we do not understand them, and worse yet, we increasingly do not understand ourselves and thus commit similar atrocities within our own society." I told him he's nuts and that nobody deserves this no matter what. But it's a thought provoking idea. Did we as Americans bring this on ourselves?
posted by elvissinatra at 12:53 PM on September 12, 2001 [2 favorites]
posted by elvissinatra at 12:53 PM on September 12, 2001 [2 favorites]
I just heard int the news that the FBI has identified the aggressors. The NATO has declared the common case of defence. That is the first time in the history of NATO. Only problem is whom is NATO defending against? This is the beginning of a new age. The age of total chaos.
posted by alex63 at 1:21 PM on September 12, 2001
posted by alex63 at 1:21 PM on September 12, 2001
Please pardon glaring typos, I want to post this info quick since I've sat on it all day. The Port Authority of NY and NJ has established hotlines for family members of employees. The #'s are 1-973-565-5505/5506/5507
They've also requested that employees call the following numbers in an effort to account for all it's nearly 7,000 workers. A spokesman was unsure last night how many of those employees worked at its main office in the WTC. 1-973-565-5501/5502/5503/5504
The Port Authority's commuter info is available at www.panynj.com
NJ Transit is asking commuters to call its hotline at 1-973-491-7400 or visit its site at www.njtransit.com
United Airlines hotline for the family and friends of passengers on the ill-fated Flights 93 & 175: 800-932-8555 It's Web site www.ual.com is also providing updates.
American Airlines hotline for the family & friends of passengers on Flights 11 & 77: 800-245-0999 It's web site is www.amercorp.com
posted by FunkyHelix at 2:04 PM on September 12, 2001
They've also requested that employees call the following numbers in an effort to account for all it's nearly 7,000 workers. A spokesman was unsure last night how many of those employees worked at its main office in the WTC. 1-973-565-5501/5502/5503/5504
The Port Authority's commuter info is available at www.panynj.com
NJ Transit is asking commuters to call its hotline at 1-973-491-7400 or visit its site at www.njtransit.com
United Airlines hotline for the family and friends of passengers on the ill-fated Flights 93 & 175: 800-932-8555 It's Web site www.ual.com is also providing updates.
American Airlines hotline for the family & friends of passengers on Flights 11 & 77: 800-245-0999 It's web site is www.amercorp.com
posted by FunkyHelix at 2:04 PM on September 12, 2001
The Dalai Lama sent a letter to Dubya urging him to be cool: "It may seem presumptuous on my part, but I personally believe we need to think seriously whether a violent action is the right thing to do and in the greater interest of the nation and people in the long run. I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence..."
posted by elvissinatra at 2:13 PM on September 12, 2001 [3 favorites]
posted by elvissinatra at 2:13 PM on September 12, 2001 [3 favorites]
Also, he clarified that not 50,000, but 500,000 people work in the WTC. I know the surrounding area is packed 8:30-9:30 am. This is staggering.
This is also not true. The building can hold that many people, but only 40-50,000 work there. Either you misunderstood or the architect did not make himself clear.
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:33 PM on September 12, 2001
This is also not true. The building can hold that many people, but only 40-50,000 work there. Either you misunderstood or the architect did not make himself clear.
posted by Mo Nickels at 2:33 PM on September 12, 2001
What did I read somewhere about the New York Primaries still going ahead?
posted by feelinglistless at 3:07 PM on September 12, 2001
posted by feelinglistless at 3:07 PM on September 12, 2001
Our ally, England, may have hundreds of casualties as well.
posted by owillis at 3:15 PM on September 12, 2001
posted by owillis at 3:15 PM on September 12, 2001
no, the election was canceled & the police sent to the scene.
posted by palegirl at 6:14 PM on September 12, 2001
posted by palegirl at 6:14 PM on September 12, 2001
A general whose name escapes me said, after Pearl Harbor, "The sleeping giant has been awakened". Well the sleeping giant has been re-awakened. What happens now is anyones guess.
posted by Judiz at 12:56 PM on September 15, 2001
posted by Judiz at 12:56 PM on September 15, 2001
McCain with the fiery statement...hrm...
posted by Yardsale at 1:05 PM on September 15, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by Yardsale at 1:05 PM on September 15, 2001 [1 favorite]
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posted by karen at 6:00 AM on September 11, 2001