En Passant

Comment from Mark
Time September 29, 2012 at 10:26 pm

Just a note, I don’t necessarily support either side, but the other party Unity, whom of which are not Liberal to my knowledge, had a higher number of members voted in, taking out Secretary and all Faculty positions. Plus, to add the number of independents voted in, it’s fairly safe to say Left Action alienated quite a large amount of the student population and as a result ended up with a minority of Guild positions.

I do love your work John, however this article comes across as a bit snide and misinformed.

Comment from Jessica Mcdermit
Time September 29, 2012 at 10:37 pm

What is this shit? Was it written by a 10 year old. Learn to research and write an article moron.

Comment from Ryan
Time September 29, 2012 at 11:10 pm

you’re so full of shit and wild misinterpretations. I don’t even know where to start…

Comment from Cameron
Time September 29, 2012 at 11:28 pm

Left Action actually scored less people on the council than their opposition…

Comment from Lachlan
Time September 29, 2012 at 11:56 pm

Left Action don’t have guild majority, so it’s not really a “win”.

And are you seriously suggesting that the Curtin Capitalist Club go commit suicide now, the “better dead than red” posters were obviously satirical in nature. Suggesting that hate against the left wing is bad and then calling on those members to go kill themselves seems a little hypocritical.

And to suggest that someone changing action to “fagtion” is homophobic is a little bit moronic, that’s like saying insulting other people by calling them a “dickhead” is sexist.

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 8:08 am

I don’t say it is a win. Ah satire covers everything doesn’t it, including violence against or is it because of the reds? Love to stir up the Curtin conservatives. Speaking of which, did anyone read the death threat against me in my article ‘Can black people be racist?’ Just satire I guess eh? And I suppose the ‘Fagtion’ tag is just satire too? That must explain why suicide rates among young gay men are so high. Just satire. And this piece? Just satire too.

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 8:10 am

Don’t.

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 8:11 am

Will do Jessica. Will do. Thanks for the advice.

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 8:14 am

As I understand it this is the first time a clearly radical left group has stood in ten years and won seats. That doesn’t look like alienating people in my view. It looks as if it has given voice to that sizeable group of students who actually want to fight against course cuts and other neoliberal atrocities on campus and who didn’t have a voice before.

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 8:52 am

It is just satire.

Comment from Mark
Time September 30, 2012 at 9:26 am

The thing is this lefty stuff gets some attention in uni while people feel all oppressed and hard done by but as soon as they start earning, people realise that it is just that. Radical, and forget about along with everything else they learnt at uni

Comment from Cameron
Time September 30, 2012 at 11:46 am

You said they won in your first line, you talk so much shit. I see you also like to twist your own words, as well as other’s words.

Please research your articles better too, it is clear to anyone that actually attends Curtin that you get all your information from a single source. A source that lies, exaggerates and draws conclusions based completely on conjecture.

Lastly, there is no anti-homosexual wing in Curtin politics, now you are just projecting opinions onto people to justify demonising them.

Comment from Cameron
Time September 30, 2012 at 11:56 am

You also have no consistency and keep contradicting yourself. You call the opposition to Left Action a neoliberal party and you criticise liberal politics and call them right wing. Liberalism is left wing, so you are clearly lying and demonizing your opposition again.

Comment from Luke
Time September 30, 2012 at 12:37 pm

Do you actually research this shit before posting? Left Action have always had a strong presence on guild, this year they lost seats. If you actually knew anything about Curtin politics you would know this.

Please, just stop. You are too far from this school, and the people you talk to clearly aren’t being truthful.

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 2:41 pm

The material is what Left Action wrote.

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 2:43 pm

So who chalks ‘fagtion’? And defends it? Just one bad apple? Or the same sort of people who think it is funny to post better dead than red over Left Action posters?

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 3:18 pm

Well Cameron, I’ve read the first line and it says ‘…Left Action has helped stop the Liberals winning control of the Curtin University Guild.’ So explain to me where I say they have won. Funny, I actually used that wording to avoid saying they had won. And you are right Cameron. I am demonising people who chalk ‘Fagtion’ on Left Action chalk ups. Such homophobes deserve nothing less. The thing I find concerning is that the right wing at Curtin can’t see such actions and ‘better dead than red posters’ as hurtful and/or threatening.

Comment from Left Action Rep
Time September 30, 2012 at 3:18 pm

This is not the first time a Socialist Alternative-based left group, or Left Action for that matter, has run at Curtin for Guild, and as stated, unfortunately seats were lost.

Sorry John, however it would seem your sources are wrong.

Comment from Lachlan
Time September 30, 2012 at 4:03 pm

You didn’t seem to reply to my accusation that you are telling the Curtin Capitalist Society to go off themselves, stop being a hypocrite.

Taking a 50 year old slogan and in bit poking fun using it on posters for a “capitalist” society that uses a man with a monocle and tophat for their “logo” is obviously making fun, unless the subtlety of that has gone over your head? Which it definitely seems to have done.

But just straight telling them to go kill themselves, no that isn’t satire.

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 4:17 pm

Here’s another report which seems to support what I wrote. http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/52374

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 4:20 pm

I am asking them to put their words in to practice. That is what they professed they meant. But I guess you miss the ‘subtlety’ and ‘satire’ of that. One rule for the rich wannabes and another for the rest of us eh?

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 4:23 pm

Actually what I say is ‘This is the first time the non-Labor Left has seriously contested the elections in well over 10 years!’ That is different to saying they haven’t contested it. As a report in Socialist Alliance’s Green Left Weekly says:

McLeod, who is also a member of Socialist Alternative, told Green Left Weekly that this was the most serious campaign waged by a left of Labor ticket at Curtin University since the Resistance-led Higher Education Action Team contested the elections in 1996.

McLeod said the task ahead is to consolidate the election victory by building a left-wing, active and fighting guild.

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 4:42 pm

Seems I am not alone. Here’s what Socalist Alliance’s Green left Weekly says: http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/52374

Comment from John
Time September 30, 2012 at 4:46 pm

Just as well I didn’t apply for that tax teaching job a few weeks ago at Curtin.

Comment from damien
Time September 30, 2012 at 5:21 pm

@Mark’s comment.Don’t worry,this lefty,radical stuff deepens once people get into the workplace and us lefties become even bigger ratbags than we were at uni.If it wasn’t for the lefty ratbags you wouldn’t have the weekend or a minimum wage to look forward to.Democracy and all it entails didn’t fall from the sky either. Someone had to fight for it.

Comment from BlastTyrant
Time September 30, 2012 at 5:24 pm

Cameron, are you actually so stupid that you don’t know the difference between social liberalism, economic neo-liberalism and the Liberal party?
To suggest that all mention of “liberal” is left wing is a clear indication of having no idea what you’re talking about. Please, go and do some research before getting back onto a computer – they’re not toys for babies to play with.

Comment from Curtin student
Time September 30, 2012 at 6:55 pm

Unity was as good as a Liberal ticket. They were not open about their politics, and had a few useful idiots on side, but their leading members- including the newly elected Gen-Sec and Sci-Eng rep- were members of either the Young Liberals or the Liberal party proper. UWA Liberals, like the head of the UWA Young Liberals, among others, understood that well enough to come onto campus and campaign for them after their own smashing defeat last week.

What Left Action succeeded in doing is preventing the election of a Guild that would have done precisely /nothing/ to prevent the attacks coming next year from the uni admin. The obvious favouring of the Liberals by the Returning Officer, the spread of vicious rumours and death-threats (and I’m not just talking about the posters) about Left Action candidates, outright lies, underhanded maneuvering, condescending ‘take a lolly and vote Unity’ campaigning, and so on was not enough to prevent Left Action from adding President and Women’s Officer to the list of their positions. Far from “alienating” students, they managed to make serious advances despite huge odds. Bravo to the Curtin left.

And by the way, only 4 out of 11 of the Left Action Candidates were Socialist Alternative members. Unlike the Liberals, they were open and honest about their political allegiances, and didn’t attempt to hide them behind faux neutrality.

Comment from Cameron
Time October 1, 2012 at 5:43 pm

BlastTyrant, I certainly know the difference, I was suggesting Passant doesn’t because he is using the words interchangeably.

The Liberal Party in our government is neither socially liberal nor economically liberal and are right wing. Neoliberalism and social liberalism are both left wing ideals. Not as left as socialism, but still left. Yes, some liberal subtypes fit under right wing, but the ones he is talking about don’t. Calling them both neoliberal and socially liberal makes them left wing, but seeing as he sees them as opposition he calls them right.

Comment from John
Time October 1, 2012 at 7:34 pm

Ok Cameron, any references to support your assertion neoliberalism is left wing? Very interested in seeing you justifying this.

Comment from Cameron
Time October 1, 2012 at 9:44 pm

Modern neoliberalism is about equality of means, not equality of outcomes. So equal opportunity to succeed such as public healthcare and education to give people the means to their own success. It is based off economics and takes into account things like that subsided healthcare are of more benefit to society than their cost, and so they are promoted.

What you think of when you think of neoliberalism is corrupted neoliberalism, which ignores social benefits and costs and decisions are made to benefit the individual; essentially capitalism.

True neoliberalism is left, corrupted is right.

Comment from John
Time October 1, 2012 at 10:14 pm

Here is something I wrote.

In its economic context, ‘[n]eoliberalism is a revival of liberalism.’ As Thorsen and Lie say:

Neoliberalism is … customarily thought of as the return and spread of one specific aspect of the liberal tradition, namely economic liberalism. Economic liberalism is, basically, the belief that states ought to abstain from intervening in the economy, and instead leave as much as possible up to individuals participating in free and self-regulating markets.

Elizabeth Martinez and Arnoldo Garcia identify five main elements of economic neoliberalism – the rule of the market, cutting public expenditure for social services, deregulation, privatisation and eliminating the concept of public good or community and replacing it with individual responsibility.

For me the essence of neoliberalism is captured by Eddie Cimorelli when he says:

Neoliberalism is a particular organisation of capitalism. Its most basic feature is the use of the state to protect capital, impose market imperatives on society and curb the power of labour.

How any of this is ‘left wing’ is beyond me.

Comment from Cameron
Time October 1, 2012 at 11:53 pm

I see the problem here… along the way, different people changed the “definition” of neoliberalism, seeing as neo just means new. You are mainly talking about American neoliberalism, which is what I called corrupted neoliberalism. The term is popularly used to mean different variations of the free market ideal. Hence the confusion here.

I agree with you on most of what you say above on what neoliberalism is but I disagree on some of the other points. Regardless, we are pretty much talking about two different things.

I see neoliberalism as extending classical economics into liberal social policy. The main role of government in neoliberalism is to prevent market failure (i.e. preventing monopolies, and ensuring social benefits and costs are realised). For example, public healthcare provides social benefits such as increased productivity, which are indirect benefits. High levels of pollution is due to indirect cost not being recognised, so these costs need to be attached back to firms. Seeing as individuals do not recognise indirect costs and benefits, it falls to the government. Basically a less corrupt version of what we have in Australia.

The reason it is left wing is because it is built around the idea of social equality (the main basis of left-wing ideology) but where it differs from socialism and communism is that it is based around equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. l Truthfully, it is closer to the middle, but it is still technically left wing.

To be honest, neoliberalism is a term that shouldn’t be used anymore.