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Markets Live: Oil crash hits shares hard

Date

Patrick Commins, Jens Meyer

The sharemarket has closed sharply lower, losing about $30 billion in value, or $53 billion over the past two sessions, after energy stocks nosedived again on the back of the continuing slide in the oil price.

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That's all for today - thanks everyone for reading this blog and posting your comments.

We'll be back tomorrow at 9am.

Here's the evening wrap of today's session.

The slide in commodity prices that’s making life so difficult for Joe Hockey continued in November.

The budget bottom line has been hit by reduced revenue collections, and a big part of the reason for that is lower commodity prices affecting mining profits. The downturn continued in November, with the eleventh monthly fall in a row.

After the latest drop, 1.8 per cent in foreign currency terms, the Reserve Bank’s commodity price index is 19 per cent down from a year earlier and 40 per cent below the peak in July 2011.

The biggest contributors to the monthly fall were iron ore and oil, while prices for rural commodities and base metals rose during the month, the RBA said. And the RBA warned that spot market prices for iron ore, coking coal and thermal coal had been weaker than the prices used in the index.

Using these spot prices, the commodity price index would have been down by 2.7 per cent in the month rather than 1.8 per cent down. That signals further falls in the index when the spot market prices are reflected in prices received for exports.

It's been a very mixed day for the region's bourses, with the local market a clear underperformer:

  • Japan (Nikkei): +0.7%
  • Hong Kong: -2.1%
  • Shanghai: +0.1%
  • Taiwan: -0.8%
  • Korea: -0.8%
  • ASX200: -2%
  • Singapore: -0.5%
  • New Zealand: +0.1%

 

‘Concerns about disinflation and deflation are being fuelled by what we’re seeing in energy and commodity markets at this point in time,’’ Richard Gibbs, global head of economics at Macquarie, said in a Bloomberg TV interview. ‘‘Clearly the decision by the Saudis to not even countenance a cut in production has strong geopolitical undertones.’’

Some more scope to today's market slide:

A director's interest notice filed to the ASX shows Medibank Private chief executive George Savvides, the man charged with arresting market share losses and engineering a turnaround, has topped up his personal stake in the company.

Savvides acquired indirectly a further 15,550 shares, taking his stake to 35,700. He paid almost $35,000 on-market, which works out to be roughly $2.205 apiece.

Remember, Medibank was offered to retail investors at $2 a share. Certainly this is not the full extent of Savvides' skin in the game - he has a well publicised incentive package that means he will also be granted performance rights worth $1.2 million in the company, as part of a $3 million pool of performance rights granted to the executive team.

The stock closed at $2.13 today, down 1.8 per cent for the session.

Medibank chief executive George Savvides has topped up his stake in Medibank.

Medibank chief executive George Savvides has topped up his stake in Medibank. Photo: Mal Fairclough

Few sectors were spared in today's massive selloff, but oil and gas stocks were hit hardest. Here's an overview of how the blue chips and a few other stocks performed:

  • BHP: -5.4% to $29.26
  • Rio: -4.1% to $56.66
  • ANZ: -0.8% to $31.66
  • CBA: -1.1% to $79.80
  • NAB: -1.4% to $32.15
  • Westpac: -0.95% to $32.24
  • Fortescue: -10.9% to $2.62
  • Qantas: +4.7% to $2.01
  • Telstra: -1.2% to $5.62
  • Santos: -10% to $9.11
  • Woodside: -4.3% to $34.20
  • Oil Search: -8.5% to $7.29

The sharemarket has closed sharply lower, losing about $30 billion in value after energy stocks nosedived again on the back of the continuing slide in the oil price.

The benchmark S&P/ASX200 index fell 105.3 points, or 2 per cent, to 5207.7, posting its biggest slump since mid-October, while the broader All Ords fell 107.4 points, or 2 per cent, to 5190.7.

Among the sectors, energy plunged 6.4 per cent, materials crashed 4.9 per cent and financials lost 1 per cent.

Over the past two sessions, the energy sector has lost a whopping 13.6 per cent, leading to the overall market losing about $54 billion in value.

Well, amid all the gloom there is one clear winner: Qantas. Its shares are up a solid 12 per cent over the past two sessions, thanks to cheaper jet fuel prices.

Shares rose above $2.00 for the first time in three years today, closing at $2.01.

Finally something to smile about for Alan Joyce.

Finally something to smile about for Alan Joyce.

Two Sydney money managers have demanded about $23 million in fees for two years work investing Papua New Guinea taxpayer funds, some of which dropped in value by about $10 million.

And a company they directed also paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in a referral or introduction fee to a former PNG prime minister's son in connection with getting the deal to invest the funds.

The revelations have emerged from a row over $43 million of PNG government money that was squirreled away in a small country bank branch in Lismore in northern NSW.

The money is now the subject of a court case in NSW involving the money managers and Papua New Guinea's third-party motor vehicle insurer, which owns the money.

It has already sparked controversy in PNG with politicians raising concerns about how the $43 million fund, which belonged to the government-owned entity known as the Motor Vehicle Insurances Limited (MVIL), was  sent out of the country in 2009.

The money was entrusted to private investment management company Woodlawn Capital, which is directed by Timothy James McNamara, 43, and Timothy Patrick Breen, 40.

Read more.

Two Sydney advisers are seeking $23 million in fees for two years' work investing Papua New Guinea taxpayer funds.

Two Sydney advisers are seeking $23 million in fees for two years' work investing Papua New Guinea taxpayer funds.

Energy sector investors should brace for a tough time because there is a big question mark over how long it will take for supply to rebalance and where the crude oil price will eventually settle, Alphinity Asset Management portfolio manager Stephane Andre says.

Worldwide crude oil producers are currently supplying an excess of around 1 million barrels per day, on top of the roughly 91 million to 92 million barrels that are consumed.

“The surplus is not huge by historical standards, but the market reaction has been very strong and has a lot of momentum,” Andre says.

Global oil supply has increased at a time when demand growth has been waning due to weaker global economic growth.

“To some extent investors will need to wait and see what OPEC does next and the oil cartel is not due to meet again for another six  months, unless it calls and extraordinary meeting.”

“But while OPEC is producing around 30.6 million barrels a day, 600,000 barrels above its 30 million barrel per day quote, the real driver of oversupply is the increased supply from the US,” Andre says.

“The shale boom means that oil supply out of the US alone has increased more strongly than global demand growth so US supply will have to be cut for the commodity market to rebalance, but that could take six to 12 months”.

Over the coming year, those energy producers with less debt and more cash are in a better position to navigate through an extended period of lower oil prices.

“We have been reducing our energy positions over the past month but are still exposed to stocks with strong balance sheets like Woodside Petroleum and Oil Search,” Andre says. “Woodside could even become an acquirer of smaller producers with weaker balance sheets in the current market.”

If Woodside is unable to find any acquisition opportunities that are good enough, it could conduct a buy back of its own shares, Andre says.

Expect more swings in the oil market until it rebalances, a funds manager says.

Expect more swings in the oil market until it rebalances, a funds manager says. Photo: Getty Images

Electricity is the great big hidden tax, writes BusinessDay columnist Michael West:

If Denis Napthine had an extra $20 billion to spend he might have fared a little better over the weekend in the Victorian election. That's the size of the war-chest mooted by the NSW Liberal government as they head to the polls early next year, pledging to privatise the state's electricity networks.

Former premier Jeff Kennett did just that with Victoria's poles and wires two decades ago, fetching a handsome price and restoring the state's finances. Since then however, things have changed radically. Electricity prices have doubled in five years yet demand for electricity is actually in decline.

The rationale for selling state networks is twofold. Firstly, it delivers a wad of cash to fund public works. Secondly, privatisation is supposed to bring down prices for consumers by creating efficiencies.

It is clear however that privatisation has not delivered efficiency and decent prices for consumers. The Victorian experience shows customers have been stung just as hard as those in other states while a good chunk of the profits have gone to multinational parent companies in Hong Kong and Singapore.

Victoria moreover has a comparative advantage in pricing because it has tiny transmission distances – compared with other states – and a great big cheap source of generation in the La Trobe Valley.

So the efficiencies argument is spurious. How about the wad of cash rationale?

The NSW Auditor General released his report to Parliament a few days ago. Buried on page 12 of volume five is a very useful bit of information.

It is well known that the distribution and transmission companies — whose spending (a good deal of it "gold-plating") is responsible for more than half of the rise in electricity bills — pay enormous dividends to the state governments, or in Victoria's case corporations. In NSW in 2014, these dividends totalled $872 million.

Read more.

Privatising electricity networks could fetch a handsome price.

Privatising electricity networks could fetch a handsome price.

Some readers have been asking why the local sharemarket has been hit so hard by the plunge in the oil price, underperforming many regional and global markets.

Apparently that’s not unusual, Citi says after having looked at past oil price spikes and how they affect global stockmarkets: the ASX tends to do worse than its peers when the oil price drops.

‘‘As one would expect, (oil producers) Russia, Norway, Canada and Brazil are amongst the markets with the highest correlations: they underperform when oil prices fall, and outperform when oil prices rise,’’ Citi notes, adding that it’s only looked at returns in $US, meaning a big portion of the out- or underperfomance plays out through the currency markets.

‘‘On the flipside, US and Japan seem to outperform the global benchmark when oil prices fall,’’ Citi continues. ‘‘We think this is partly because of the defensive nature of the US and Japanese equities. Japanese stocks are defensive in $US terms, as yen usually strengthens in a risk-off environment.

‘‘Japan also benefits from lower oil prices as it a big energy importer, especially after the earthquake and the shutdown of nuclear power plants.’'

Citi also notes that it’s expecting global economic growth to pick up next year, in line with rising global equity markets.

‘‘This suggests that the recent fall in oil prices is more supply, than demand related,’’ Citi says. ‘‘A demand related drop in the oil price would be more troublesome for global equities.’’

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Here are some numbers on the scope of the carnage among oil and gas stocks: Australia's energy sector has suffered its biggest two-day loss since before the global financial crisis, wiping $12.3 billion from the sector’s market capitalisation, following OPEC’s refusal to cut oil output.

The S&P/ASX200 energy sub-index has slumped 13.4 per cent over the last two sessions, plummeting 1707.93 points to 11073.36 points. The market cap for the sector has plunged from $90.74 billion to $78.4 billion.

Some of Australia’s best-known shares have been pummelled. Santos shares have dropped 20.76 per cent over the last two trading days, pulling its market cap down $2.4 billion. Origin Energy shares have lost 10.8 per cent over the same period, wiping $1.6 billion from its market cap.

Woodside Petroleum shares are down 11.5 per cent since Friday with its market cap losing $3.6 billion. In the same period, Oil Search has fallen 13.4 per cent, Liquified Natural Gas has plunged 32.4 per cent and Karoon has dropped 15.8 per cent.

Since the decision by the Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries last Thursday to keep oil output unchanged, Brent crude oil has slipped nearly 10 per cent to $US68.44 per barrel, putting this calendar year's drop in the benchmark oil price at 35 per cent.

Shares in oil and gas giant Santos have plunged more than 20 per cent in just two sessions.

Shares in oil and gas giant Santos have plunged more than 20 per cent in just two sessions. Photo: Robert Garvey

As you can see from a recent post, Santos has sold off harder than Oil Search and Woodside. Analysts at UBS explain why:

Santos is the most sensitive to the oil price due to a combination of its high debt level and the lowest margin production versus its peers. The decision to refinance some of its debt with a 50% equity credit Euro hybrid in our view highlights that Santos (STO) is concerned about its credit rating in a low oil price environment.

• While Oil Search (OSH) also has relatively high debt: a) it is project debt (for PNG LNG) and not corporate debt, so STO is likely to want to protect its corporate credit rating whereas OSH has no credit rating at the that level; and b) OSH is over the capex “hump”, whereas STO has one more year to go in LNG investment ($2.7bn in 2015).

The UBS team also weigh the implications for the large cap stocks if oil stays lower for longer:

• For Woodside (WPL), the company is considered essentially ex-growth, so it should continue to generate positive free cash flow down to $US35/bbl. It's difficult if not impossible for Browse FLNG to be approved if oil prices stay below $US90/bbl, in our view. On the positive side, the lower oil prices should result in more M&A opportunities appearing on the market; WPL could pick up an attractively priced asset under these circumstances.

• For Oil Search, LNG expansion still looks possible at $80/bbl oil, but OSH's debt level could hamper any plans for a more aggressive growth strategy.

Santos looks likely to be hardest hit if oil prices stay low for more than 18 months, with increasing risk of asset sales (at the wrong time of the cycle) or a dilutive equity raise if its investment grade credit rating comes under pressure. On the flipside, STO should rebound fastest if/when oil prices recover; remember the forward curve shows Brent back at $US87/bbl in 2018.

Finally, where to from here?

• We [the UBS analysts] expect further oil price volatility; it's hard to pick the bottom, but we could be in for a period of sustained low prices. We prefer OSH ahead of STO and WPL.

• Among the small caps we think Drillsearch looks undervalued, and Karoon Gas for those with a risk appetite.

The stockmarket is being pounded by the selloff in oil and gas stocks, with the ASX200 down 1.8 per cent, which translates into a drop of around $28 billion in the market's value, or more than $50 billion over the past two sessions.

All sectors are in the red today but nowhere is the plunge more severe than in the energy sector, which has dropped a massive 6.5 per cent.

Oil isn't the only commodity under pressure: iron ore futures in China have fallen, ending a three-day rally after surveys showing the country's manufacturing activity slowed to multi-month lows, further evidence of weakness in the world's second-biggest economy.

The surveys gave investors another excuse to sell risky assets and the commodities sell-off continued, with oil extending a  months-long rout and copper sliding to its weakest since 2010.

The HSBC/Markit China Purchasing Managers' Index hit a six-month low of 50 in November and a separate government reading put the PMI at just above 50, the lowest in eight months.

Iron ore for May delivery on the Dalian Commodity Exchange  is down 1.2 per cent at 479 yuan  after falling to 470 yuan earlier.

Demand for spot iron ore cargoes in China was lean as winter slows construction activity, trimming steel consumption, traders said.

"The temperature dropped very fast this weekend in Shanghai and it's even colder in the northern part of China. We're getting feedback from mills that sales remain weak," an iron ore trader in Shanghai told Reuters.

Benchmark 62 per cent grade iron ore for delivery to China's Qingdao port was up 1.9 per cent to $US71.32 a tonne on Friday.

Meanwhile, copper has tumbled to its lowest in four-and-a-half years, tracking the drop in oil prices as global crude supply looked set to overwhelm demand.

"The bearish pall continues, there's nothing you can point to that good (economically) at the minute," said analyst Daniel Morgan at UBS in Sydney.

Morgan said that copper prices were likely to find buying support at current levels. "Below $US3 a pound ($US6600 a tonne) we tend to see more opportunistic buying in China," he said.

Three-month copper on the London Metal Exchange fell to $US6230.75 a tonne, its lowest since June 2010, before trading at $US6265 a tonne, down by 1.4 per cent and adding to losses of 3.1 per cent in the prior session.

Looks like the recent relief for the iron ore price could be short-lived.

Looks like the recent relief for the iron ore price could be short-lived. Photo: Reuters

Energy stocks have been pummeled today, continuing Friday's sell-off.

Energy stocks have been pummeled today, continuing Friday's sell-off.

Energy stocks are crashing and burning today - the worst hit, LNG Ltd, has lost a quarter off its market value today alone. Most are backing up some heavy losses from Friday.

The big names aren't immune, either, as this table shows: Woodside has lost around 10 per cent over a couple of days, and Santos more like 20 per cent.

Oil prices are continuing to slide, with US crude falling more than $US2 to a five-year low today, while Brent futures have touched a fresh four-year low, extending a steep sell-off after OPEC decided not to cut production last week, keeping markets well supplied.

Brent hit a low of $US67.90 a barrel, the lowest since May 2010, and is currently down 2.4 per cent at $US68.48 a barrel. US crude was at $US64.70 a barrel, down $US1.45 after earlier slipping to an intraday low of $US64.10, the lowest since July 2009.

Both US crude and Brent have fallen for five straight months, oil's longest losing streak since the 2008 financial crisis.

US crude tumbled to near $US64, dragging Brent down below $US70, after Saudi Arabia's oil minister told fellow OPEC members last week that they must combat the US shale oil boom.

"They (OPEC) can get by at $US60 a barrel, but that price would knock out a fair whack of the competition - much US shale oil for example - as well as put investment in future capacity growth firmly on the back-burner," ANZ analysts said in a note.

"They're playing the long game, banking that others can't."

Oil-producing countries from Iraq to Nigeria are revising their 2015 budgets to reflect lower prices.

Iran refrained from protesting against OPEC's decision to retain its production ceiling to maintain group solidarity, even though the move will not benefit all members, Iranian oil minister said in local media reports.

Slower than expected growth in China's manufacturing sector may add further downward pressure on oil. China's official Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI) slipped to 50.3 in November, a government study showed, lower than analysts' forecast at 50.6.

"It's not too bad a miss, but probably won't help (oil) too much," Ric Spooner, chief analyst at CMC Markets in Sydney said. "It's best not to try to pick bottoms at this stage."

The oil price slide (white line) is weighing heavily on the stocks of local energy producers such as Santos (green) and Woodside (purple).

The oil price slide (white line) is weighing heavily on the stocks of local energy producers such as Santos (green) and Woodside (purple).

Watch out SMSFs: you're a soft target for regulators, warns BusinessDay columnist Michael Pascoe:

It seems the regulators are increasingly torn about tapping the real estate investor brakes – they like talking about a touch of the macroprudentials, but keep backing away from actually doing anything.

The signs are that if they are going to act, they will want to keep the target small and the fallout limited. And that makes a case for a return to speculating that self-managed superannuation funds could have their borrowing powers restricted.

Indeed, a reason for the regulators holding fire could be hope that the Murray Financial System inquiry will load and aim the gun for them.

The SMSFs have plenty of enemies when it comes to their ability to gear into real estate.

The APRA-regulated super funds, retail and industry, hate it and want it stopped outright. The cynical might suggest that's because they are losing members to the SMSF side as their main argument seems to be that it tilts the playing field away from them.

The Murray interim report specifically asked for submissions on restoring the general prohibition on direct leverage of superannuation funds. APRA's reply left no doubt about where it stands on the issue:

"APRA has long had reservations about extending the ability of superannuation funds to borrow and was reluctant to facilitate relaxation of the borrowing rules, which took place in 2007, to accommodate instalment warrants.

Read more.

The SMSFs have plenty of enemies when it comes to their ability to gear into real estate.

The SMSFs have plenty of enemies when it comes to their ability to gear into real estate. Photo: Viki Lascaris

The battle for Australian food and liquor spending remains dominated by Coles and Woolworths but the threat of low-cost players such as Aldi and Costco nibbling away at market share, as they have done in Britain, remains a real threat.

This throws up further challenges for third player Metcash, owner of IGA, as it embarks on a five-year transformation plan. The wholesaler has made improving its fresh food offer to independent grocery retailers a priority in its strategy.

While it is early days for chief executive Ian Morrice’s turnaround plan, the wholesaler’s disappointing earnings guidance highlights the challenges ahead.

Metcash needs to invest heavily to cut grocery prices but it is doing so in an environment of deflation, rising utility costs and discounting in key areas, such as fuel, by its rivals. Australian consumers are also pickier than ever about price. That makes it hard luring away shoppers from the major supermarket chains.

Metcash is a company in transition and Morrice has made no secret of the fact there is still more pain to come after a decade of growth. Former chief Andrew Reitzer is credited for Metcash’s huge growth since 1998 when sales quadrupled. But Morrice is now the one trying to fix the structural and competitive issues which have finally caught up with the company.

Australian consumers would be well-served by ensuring Metcash’s survival and transformation into a third pillar in the supermarket space. Getting there is another issue and despite the differences between the Australian and UK supermarket industry, there is a real threat that price-conscious shoppers will increasingly go to discounters such as German retailer Aldi, which has built a network of more than 300 stores in less than 14 years.

Roy Morgan Research says Aldi, which is now preparing to expand in Western Australia and South Australia, has 10 per cent market share, overtaking Metcash, which has a 9.5 per cent share.

Read more at The AFR ($).

Paul Mallam, the nominee of billionaire Bruce Gordon on the board of Ten Network Holdings has resigned suddenly from the board of the broadcaster, dealing a further twist to the takeover auction for the company – the initial deadline for which ends on Tuesday evening.

In a statement to the ASX on Monday, Mr Mallam thanked the board and management and said that it had been "a great privilege working with them during the past four years, particularly during a challenging period".

"I would like to pay tribute to my fellow directors, who have addressed the issues facing the company in a disciplined and cohesive manner," Mr Mallam said.

"I also have nothing but praise for the focus and commitment of management and staff of Ten. Pleasingly, their efforts have repositioned the network and created a more competitive platform for 2015," Mr Mallam said.

His praise for fellow directors hints at a possible disagreement between Mr Mallam and Mr Gordon, who is Ten's largest shareholder. Mr Gordon could not be reached for comment at the time of writing.

The Australian Financial Review reported on Monday that Discovery Communications and Foxtel are preparing to lodge a joint takeover offer of between 25¢ and 30¢ a share for Ten Network Holdings amid signs that Mr Gordon is supportive of Foxtel taking a stake in the struggling broadcaster.

Read more.

Resigned: Ten director Paul Mallam.

Resigned: Ten director Paul Mallam. Photo: Dominic Postiglione

Qantas shares have broken through the $2-mark for the first time in more than three years as a major slump in oil prices bolsters investor enthusiasm for airline stocks worldwide.

Three months after Qantas declared it was over the worst in the wake of a $2.8 billion net loss, shares in Australia’s largest airline surged as much as 11 per cent – their biggest one-day gain since August last year –  in early morning trading, hitting their highest level since June 2011.

They've since given up some of the gains but are still up a healthy 6.3 per cent at $2.04.

Analysts at Citi have also joined other brokers in upgrading their earnings expectations for Qantas. The broker has raised its recommendation on Qantas from ‘‘neutral’’ to ‘‘buy’’.

Virgin Australia, which is an illiquid stock, also rose 3 per cent to 43 cents in early trading. Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines, Etihad and Richard Branson’s Virgin Group control more than 80 per cent of its register.

The surge in Qantas share price mirrors that of airlines around the world after oil prices dropped below $US65 a barrel for the first time since May 2010.

The spot price for jet fuel prices in Singapore have slumped 28 per cent to $US86.76 a barrel since early August. Oil prices have been sent into a tailspin since the Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries decided on Thursday not to reduce their production quotas.

While the falling oil price has bolstered investors’ enthusiasm for airlines, Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce and his counterpart at Virgin, John Borghetti, have sought to temper expectations in recent weeks of the gains to their airlines’ earnings from the slump in fuel prices.

The airlines’ hedging of fuel prices means they are often locked in at higher levels for the short term.

Read more.

Taking off ... Qantas shares top $2 for the first time in more than three years.

Taking off ... Qantas shares top $2 for the first time in more than three years. Photo: Reuters

Growth in China's factory sector slowed more than expected in November, a government study has showed, underlining the challenges facing the sector as manufacturers fight rising costs and softening demand in a cooling economy.

The official Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI) slipped to 50.3 in November from October's 50.8, but remained above the 50-point level that separates growth from contraction on a monthly basis.

Analysts polled by Reuters had forecast a reading of 50.6, while the consensus forecast according to Bloomberg was 50.5.

The local sharemarket has bounced on the slightly disappointing numbers - perhaps on hopes of further stimulus from Chinese authorities.

The Aussie dollar continues to wallow, now at US84.34 cents, after selling down to a new multi-year low of US84.26 cents following the subdued inflation numbers from TD Securities at 10am AEST.

China's economy grew 7.3 per cent in the third quarter of this year, its slowest pace since the global financial crisis, and risks missing its official annual target for the first time in 15 years, adding to concerns the world's second-largest economy is becoming a drag on global growth.

After months of more modest stimulus measures, China cut interest rates unexpectedly on Nov. 21, stepping up efforts to support the economy as it heads towards its slowest expansion in nearly a quarter of a century, saddled under a mountain of debt.

The SMH's Ross Gittins explains why Joe Hockey's budget has flopped so badly:

Who could have predicted what a hash a Coalition government would make of its first budget? If Joe Hockey wants to lift his game in 2015, as we must hope he will, there are lessons the government - and its bureaucratic advisers - need to learn.

The first and biggest reason the government is having to modify or abandon so many of its measures is the budget's blatant unfairness. In 40 years of budget-watching I've seen plenty of unfair budgets, but never one as bad as this.

Frankly, you need a mighty lot of unfairness before most people notice. But this one had it all. Make young people wait six months for the dole? Sure. Cut the indexation of the age pension? Sure. Charge people $7 to visit the doctor, and more if they get tests, regardless of how poor they are? Sure.

Charge people up to $42.70 per prescription? Sure. Lumber uni students with hugely increased HECS debts that grow in real terms  even when they're earning less than $50,000 a year? Sure.

What distinguished this budget was that even people who weren't greatly affected by its imposts could see how unfair it was to others.

Unfairly sacked Treasury secretary Dr Martin Parkinson is right to remind us we have to accept some hit to our pocket if the government's budget is to get out of structural deficit. But any politician or econocrat who expects to get such public acquiescence to tough measures that aren't seen to be reasonably fair needs to repeat Politics 101.

Read more.

The poorest do most to close the government's budget gap.

The poorest do most to close the government's budget gap.

NBN Co has published its first plan for the rollout of the National Broadband Network under the Coalition government's multi-technology model which is aiming to hit a further 1.9 million homes by the middle of 2016.

The ambitious schedule points to the confidence that NBN Co chief executive Bill Morrow expects to finalise a successful renegotiation of its $11.2 billion with Telstra over the use of its copper network in the near future.

Mr Morrow has previously said that he expects the deal will be finished by Christmas and ready for regulators to approve in 2015.

The plan is to install the NBN in 1.9 million more premises over the next 19 months includes 419 cities, towns and suburbs at an average of 100,000 premises per month. 

Mr Morrow conceded that some people would be disappointed that they are not included in the rollout to June 2016, but that the NBN will be available for everyone by 2020.

"Over the past year, we have carried out successful trials of a range of new technologies, revised our build processes and are renegotiating our partner agreements. As a result of this work, we are able to provide forecasts that reflect the next phase of our network build," Mr Morrow said.

"It is these forecasts that will enable our customers, the telephone and internet service providers, to be able to start planning the delivery of services over the NBN to these communities."

Read more.

NBN Co's plan is to install it in 1.9 million more premises over the next 19 months includes 419 cities, towns and suburbs at an average of 100,000 premises per month.

NBN Co's plan is to install it in 1.9 million more premises over the next 19 months includes 419 cities, towns and suburbs at an average of 100,000 premises per month. Photo: Glenn Hunt

Inflation stayed subdued in November. Source: TD Securities

Inflation stayed subdued in November. Source: TD Securities

A private gauge of Australian price pressures stayed subdued in November as a drop in petrol helped offset a jump in fruit and vegetables, a benign inflationary backdrop that offers scope for interest rates to remain at record lows.

The TD Securities-Melbourne Institute's monthly measure of consumer prices edged up 0.1 per cent in November, following a 0.2 percent rise in October.

The annual pace of inflation slowed to 2.2 per cent from 2.3 per cent, and was still near the floor of the Reserve Bank of Australia's (RBA) long-term target band of 2-3 per cent.

Notably, prices for tradable goods and services edged up by only 0.1 per cent in the month and 2 pe rcent for the year, suggesting declines in the Australian dollar were having only a limited impact on inflation as yet.

That should reassure RBA that it can keep rates unchanged at 2.5 per cent at its monthly policy meeting on Tuesday. Rates have not moved since August last year and are considered certain to stay on hold this month.

Monday's survey showed price rises for fruit and vegetables, newspapers, books and stationery and garments added the most to inflation in November. That was offset by falls for petrol, holiday travel and accommodation and games, toys and hobbies.

The various measures of underlying inflation also remained restrained.

The trimmed mean rose 0.1 per cent in November, following a matching increase in October. The annual pace ticked down to 2.4 per cent from 2.5 per cent.

Inflation excluding fuel, fruit and vegetables increased by 0.2 per cent in the month, and ran at just 2.0 perc ent for the year.

Prices in the non-tradables sector were muted with annual inflation holding at 2.4 per cent, well off a high of 3.4 percent earlier in the year.

Metcash shares are trading at their lowest in over 11 years after crashing 13.8 per cent this morning following its half-yearly results announcement.

The grocery retailer and wholesaler this morning announced interim profits fell short of consensus forecasts, at $101.7 million for the six months to October 31.

The stock last traded at $2.25, implying an estimated P/E for FY15 of 9.7. Woolies is on a comparable P/E of 15 and Wesfarmers 19.

Few stocks have been hit harder by the iron ore price than Atlas Iron.

Atlas Iron shares have dropped 85 per cent this year and the market says the company is now worth only $166 million, down from as much as $3.5 billion in 2008 and $1.1 billion at the start of this year.

UBS analysts reckon Atlas Iron breaks even when iron ore is $US77 a tonne, and the company has moved quickly to cut costs. However with iron ore at $US69.25 a tonne, UBS says Atlas Iron cash flow negative on an all-in basis.

But the analysts have decided to call the bottom, underpinned by its view that the iron ore price may have found its floor.

The analysts upgraded Atlas to “neutral” from “sell” this morning.

“Although we note AGO is still not without risk given it has net debt and is not generating free cash flow at today’s iron ore price,” the broker told clients.

“Given our long-term price outlook of US$75/dmt cfr, we believe AGO needs to dig deeper and find further cuts if it is to survive what we see as the new paradigm for iron ore. A world in which supply is now adequate to meet demand over the medium term, and prices trade more in line with marginal cost, rather than on an incentive price basis.” 

Atlas Iron shares are down 2.8 per cent to 17.5c.

Capital city house price growth continued to slow in November, with only Sydney, Brisbane, Perth and Hobart showing any month-on-month advance, according to the latest report from CoreLogic RP Data.

Nationally, prices slipped 0.3 per cent, although this masked growth of 1 per cent in Sydney, 0.9 per cent in Perth and small advances in Brisbane and Hobart.

For the three months to the end of November, national price growth was 0.8 per cent, while the year-on-year change was 8.5 per cent.

The slowdown, the result of a deluge of new-build dwelling stock, fatigue on the part of investors and first home buyers, and broader concerns about the economy is likely to continue into next year, according to CoreLogic RP Data's senior research analyst Cameron Kusher.

"Our view is that we'll still see growth next year, over the next 12 months, but again it's going to continue to slow," he said. "We can't continue to grow that much above income growth [at round 2 per cent ] for all that long."

He said Sydney and Melbourne would continue to lead the way, although unaffordability, tightening rental yields, and an a pick-up in interest in cheaper cities among investors and owner-occupiers would crimp growth rates considerably.

"We see Sydney growing probably somewhere between 5 and 7 per cent over the next 12 months, and Melbourne at around 2 or 3 per cent," said Kusher.

Source: RPData

Source: RPData

The sharemarket has opened slightly lower, led down by miners, energy stocks and Metcash after a profit warning.

The benchmark S&P/ASX200 is down 2.3 points at 5310.7, while the broader All Ords has slipped 3.1 points to 5295.0

Among the sectors, energy has slumped 1.1 per cent on the back of another slide in the oil price, materials have lost 1 per cent, while financials are up 0.3 per cent.

Metcash has tumbled 8.8 per cent to $2.38, after it flagged full-year earnings that miss analyst estimates as it reports "signs of a sales led recovery" in a challenging trading environment.

BHP and energy heavyweights Woodside, Santos and Oil Search are weighing the most on the benchmark index, while Westpac and Wesfarmers are offering support.

The local sharemarket slumped nearly 4 per cent in November, driven lower by a big plunge in the energy sector.

With the ASX200 now below where its started the year (-0.7 per cent),  is it time for the end-of-year rally we've been seeing over the past years?

Poll: The ASX had a miserable November, but will fortunes change in December sparking an end-of-year rally?

Poll form
  1. Please select an answer.
  2. View results
Yes: buyers will come roaring back, driving the ASX200 above 5500 points.

20%

Kind of: we'll see some volatility but by the end of the month the ASX will be a bit higher than now.

27%

Not really: upward swings will be followed by more selling to drive the ASX below 5300 points.

22%

No: No: the sell-off will if anything accelerate, taking the ASX200 towards and possibly below 5000 points.

31%

Total votes: 1872.

Would you like to vote?

You will need Cookies enabled to use our Voting Feature.

Poll closed 5 Dec, 2014

Disclaimer:

These polls are not scientific and reflect the opinion only of visitors who have chosen to participate.

UGL will update investors “as soon as it can” on any write-downs related to the contractor’s troubled Ichthys power project in Darwin, new chairman Kate Spargo has said.

Investors remain uncertain over the outlook for UGL’s new stand-alone engineering business following the sale of property group DTZ in November and a warning the company could book write-downs on a $550 million power plant contract for the Northern Territory’s Ichthys gas project.

UGL’s share are trading at 10-year lows with many analysts reluctant to recommend the stock until the company provides more information on how large the write-downs are likely to be and whether any other projects are in trouble.

Ms Spargo, who replaced Trevor Rowe as chairman at UGL’s annual general meeting in November, said she planned to be “transparent and open” with shareholders and the company would provide more information on the Ichthys project as soon as it could.

“There is no point in updating the market with information that’s not correct or not as accurate as we can get it,” Ms Spargo told The Australian Financial Review.

Analysts have forecast UGL will make a loss in fiscal 2015 due to write-downs on the Ichthys project, with RBC Capital Markets expecting a net loss of $57 million.

UGL’s new chief executive, Ross Taylor, started last week and is reviewing UGL’s projects and processes.

UGL’s stock price dropped 15 per cent on November 6 after it revealed the Ichthys power plant, a 50-50 joint venture with United States engineering group CH2M Hill, was facing almost $200 million of cost blowouts.

Metcash’s first-half underlying net profit fell 9 per cent to $101.7 million as the grocery, liquor and hardware wholesaler cut grocery prices and spent more on marketing to drive sales growth.

Weaker sales in food, grocery and liquor were offset by higher sales from convenience, hardware and automotive supply, sending group revenue up 1 per cent to $6.6 billion in the six months ended October 31. The result fell short of market consensus forecasts of about $105.7 million.

EBIT from food and grocery, which accounts for 74 per cent of group profit, fell 18.4 per cent to $119.2 million.

Same-store wholesale grocery sales slipped 1.5 per cent, but retail scan sales rose 0.9 per cent and convenience sales gained 8.8 per cent (7.4 per cent on a same-store basis) lifting total food and grocery revenue 0.5 per cent to $4.5 billion.

In liquor, EBIT rose 6.9 per cent to $24.9 million despite a 3.6 per cent fall in sales to $1.48 billion.

Metcash is investing more than $40 million this year into reducing grocery prices by about 3 per cent as part of a five-year transformation plan aimed at securing the long-term future of the wholesaler and independent grocery retailers.

After trials earlier this year, the Price Match program was activated in 425 IGA stores by the end of October.

Metcash is also working with independent grocery store owners to improve ­store formats and increase the space allocated to fresh food.

“Six months into the transformation plan we remain very encouraged by initial indicators – implementation was later than planned (but) the program is now gaining momentum,” said chief executive Ian Morrice.

Analysts say the strategy is a step in the right direction but will come at cost to earnings. For every 1 per cent price investment Metcash expects a 3.3 per cent increase in sales. But Deutsche Bank has estimated that every 1 per cent reduction in price will reduce Metcash’s food and grocery earnings by about $122 million.

Metcash cut its interim dividend from 9.5¢ to 6.5¢, in line with forecasts, to help fund the increased investment.

Metcash is cutting prices as part of a five-year transformation plan, but it comes at a cost to earnings.

Metcash is cutting prices as part of a five-year transformation plan, but it comes at a cost to earnings. Photo: Kitty Hill

There was more bad news for the struggling mining services companies last week when Fortescue on Friday (after market close) announced it would halve its spending on projects in the 2015 financial year - slashing its capex budget from $1.3 billion to $650 million.

Fortescue shareholders may or may not welcome the news, but watch out for the share prices of the miner's contractors, including Leighton, Downer EDI, Macmahon, and Transfield.

Fortescue’s exploration budget has been savaged.

Fortescue’s exploration budget has been savaged. Photo: Reuters

Today is the first day retail investors who applied for Medibank shares through its website can sell their holdings.

Many might be thinking of taking quick profit given the number of naysayers criticising the price and growth prospects, but hese arguments sound familiar to those used against QR National float, analyst Brendon Lau notes on Livewire:

  • Cries that QRNational was priced for perfection and complaints about its mediocre growth were commonly echoed in 2010. The only real earnings growth avenue for QRNational was cost cutting. Sounding familiar yet?
  • The “kinder” comments were QRNational is an infrastructure stock with inflation-like returns. The less tactful told me that it isn’t worthy of an infrastructure play. Its rail tracks give it a “safe feel” but its “rolling stock” says different.
  • But those that bought QRNational would be grinning. Not saying MPL will travel on same track, but decision to sell or hold shouldn’t be based on current criticisms.
  • There needs to be a FRESH reason to dump MPL. The things to look for is whether MPL can find new growth. This might include acquisitions, new channels or new markets.
Sell or hold? Today is the first day retail investors can trader their shares.

Sell or hold? Today is the first day retail investors can trader their shares. Photo: Glenn Hunt

An official of the Saudi oil company at a rig near Howta, Saudi Arabia. Photographer: John Moore/AP Photo

An official of the Saudi oil company at a rig near Howta, Saudi Arabia. Photographer: John Moore/AP Photo

Saudi Arabia and its OPEC allies’ firm stand against cutting crude output to slow the plunge in oil prices has set the energy world on a painful course that will leave the weakest behind, from governments to US wildcatters.

A grand experiment has begun, one in which the cartel of producing nations -sometimes called the central bank of oil - is leaving the market to decide who is strongest and how to cut as much as 2 million barrels a day of surplus supply.

Oil patch executives including billionaire Harold Hamm have vowed to drill on, asserting they can profit well below $US70 a barrel, with output unlikely to fall for at least a year. Marginal producers in less profitable US shale areas, as well as countries from Iran to Russia and operations from Canada to Norway will see the knife sooner, according to analyses by Wells Fargo & Co., IHS Inc. and ITG Investment Research.

“We’re in a very nerve-wracking environment right now and will be for probably the next couple of years,” Jamie Webster, senior director for global crude markets at IHS, said. “This is a different game. This isn’t just about additional barrels, this is about barrels that are going to keep coming and keep coming.”

Investors punished oil producers on Friday, as Hamm’s Continental Resources fell 20 per cent, the most in six years, amid a swift plunge in crude to below $US70 for the first time since 2010. Exxon Mobil declined 4.2 per cent. Talisman Energ, based in Calgary, was down 2.7 per cent after dropping 14 percent the day before.

A production cut by the 12-member OPEC would have been the quickest way to tighten the world’s oil supplies and boost prices. In the US, output is expected either to remain flat or rise by almost 1 million barrels a day next year, according to the Paris-based International Energy Agency and ITG.

Read more at Bloomberg.

Swiss voters overwhelmingly rejected proposals on Sunday to boost gold reserves and impose strict new curbs on immigration, averting a potential nightmare for policymakers struggling with a popular backlash against the country's open borders.

The referendums are part of a recent flurry of initiatives under Switzerland's model of direct democracy that have threatened to undermine the non-EU member's reputation for stability.

They reflect a growing public view that Switzerland is under siege from foreign workers eroding its Alpine culture and from trading partners who have insisted in recent years that the Swiss dismantle their business model based on banking secrecy.

"The result of both today's gold and immigration referenda show that the Swiss public want to pursue a coherent international economic policy and do not want to create new tensions with their EU neighbours," said Reto Foellmi, Professor of International Economics at the University of St. Gallen.

The "Save our Swiss gold" initiative, proposed by the right-wing Swiss People's Party out of concern the central bank has sold too much of its gold in the past, was rejected by 77 per cent of voters, said Swiss broadcaster SRF.

The measure would have compelled the Swiss National Bank (SNB) to boost its gold reserves to 20 per cent of its assets from around 8 per cent currently, and banned it from ever selling the metal, threatening its ability to defend a 1.20 euro cap on the Swiss franc imposed at the height of the euro crisis.

The SNB welcomed the result with the refrain that it would continue to defend the cap, buying unlimited quantities of foreign currency and take further measures immediately, if necessary.

Spot gold was holding just below $US1,167 an ounce on Sunday, down 3 per cent this year.

Read more.

The measure would have compelled the Swiss National Bank (SNB) to boost its gold reserves to 20 per cent of its assets from around 8 per cent currently, and banned it from ever selling the metal,

The measure would have compelled the Swiss National Bank (SNB) to boost its gold reserves to 20 per cent of its assets from around 8 per cent currently, and banned it from ever selling the metal,

The Australian dollar hit a new 4 ½-year low after Swiss voters rejected a vote to require the Swiss National Bank hold at least 20 per cent of its assets in gold.

In early Monday trade, the local currency touched US84.49¢, its lowest point since June 2010. It has since recovered to US84.68¢.

In anticipation of the result of the Swiss referendum gold slumped more than 2 per cent on Friday to $US1167.15 an ounce and has now taken the Australian dollar with it, National Australia Bank senior economist David de Garis said.

On Monday, China’s official manufacturing PMI and HSBC’s China manufacturing PMI are scheduled for release at 12pm and 12.45pm respectively, the results may have a sway over the direction the Australian dollar takes for the afternoon.

It is a macro packed week for the Australian economy, with the Reserve Bank of Australia board meeting on Tuesday, gross domestic product on Wednesday and retail sales on Thursday and on Friday, US time (early Saturday morning in Australia), the US Labor Department releases its November labour force report.

The European Central Bank will also meet later this week with interest in whether president Mario Draghi will announce further stimulus plans, Mr de Garis said.

The Aussie dollar is taking a pummeling as commodity prices fall - this time it was gold.

The Aussie dollar is taking a pummeling as commodity prices fall - this time it was gold. Photo: Glenn Hunt

Local shares are poised to extend their losses on the continuing bleak outlook for oil and other commodities ahead of a slew of central bank meetings this week.

Here's what you need2know:

• SPI futures down 0.8 per cent, or 44 pts, at 5294

AUD at 84.69 US cents, 100.80 Japanese yen, 68.14 Euro cents and 54.25 British pence

• On Wall St, S&P 500 -0.3%, Dow flat, Nasdaq +0.1%

• In Europe, Euro Stoxx 50 +0.2%, FTSE flat, CAC +0.2%, DAX flat

• Spot gold down 2% to $US1167.41 an ounce

Iron ore adds 1.9% to $US71.32 per metric tonne

• Brent oil down 3.4% to $US70.15 per barrel

What’s on today:

• Australia: Company operating profits and inventories for Q3 at 11:30am AEST – both inputs into Q3 GDP;  TD Securities November inflation gauge at 10:30am; RP Data CoreLogic home prices November at 10am; AiGroup manufacturing index

China official manufacturing PMI at midday, and HSBC version at 12:45

US ISM manufacturing PMI

Stocks to watch:

• First day retail investors can sell Medibank shares

Metcash half-yearly profits

• A block trade of 5.1 million shares in BC Iron crossed post-market close on Friday, representing a 2.6% stake, on Bloomberg calcs.

Fortescue cuts capex estimates for FY15 to $650m from $1.3b

Mount Gibson: majority of workers at Koolan Island stood down, shares suspended pending further details

Orica and Technology One trade ex-dividend

• PEP sells 9.5% stake in Spotless at $1.92 each, reports AFR. PEP is the company’s biggest shareholder, with 30.4% stake

• UBS has a “sell” on Monadelphous Group and a 12-month price target of $9.90 a share, down from $12.10 a share previously.

• JPMorgan has a “neutral” recommendation on Cardno Limited and cut the price target to $4.33 a share, from $6.75 a share previously.

Read more.

Good morning and welcome to the Markets Live blog for Monday.

Your editors today are Jens Meyer and Patrick Commins.

This blog is not intended as investment advice.

BusinessDay with wires.

Quotes Search

Sort comments by:
  • We can't compare out markets to the US because they have had HUGE QE injections over the last couple years from the FED. All that free money has to go somewhere.

    Commenter
    Scott
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 5:12PM
    • Correct Scott. Not only that, their tech giants are over valued and they have OTHER tech-specs trading at 100-200 P/E!!! Not even sustainable WITH QE. Just watch the aftermath of the speculator!

      Commenter
      Liberator
      Location
      SEQLD
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 5:26PM
  • A fall of 100 points from 5310 to 5210 is hardly a crash.

    Commenter
    a don
    Location
    sydney
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 5:03PM
    • The exact same thing was said when the market fell through 4000 a few years back!

      Commenter
      Liberator
      Location
      SEQLD
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 5:25PM
  • With the oncoming Global Financial and Economical Devastation should I stop paying my mortgage & credit cards now? It is futile anyhow...keep my cash safe.

    Commenter
    I smell Defaults
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 4:46PM
  • Its bloody Abbott's fault - the bizoids and cronies and tax evaders and rorters have finally worked it out - Nirvana isn't gonna happen.

    Sorry chaps, I heard Hypocrisy Hockey finally realised that the rich are going to be his new gold mine to achieve a surplus. Especially as he knocked 3off $10b in receipts while you guys were gloating

    Hoover it, ya leaners.

    Commenter
    Axis
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 4:30PM
  • The mother of all shorts - yes... it sure is good!

    My little friend went quite... probably seeking a personal loan or maxing the CC to keep the margin reaper at bay - holding long on stocks was a bad move this year!

    Commenter
    Liberator
    Location
    SEQLD
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 4:26PM
  • So glad I switched my super from aggressive to cash option back in mid September when the slide started. Interest rates are paltry but better than losing my shirt. Watch out for an outfit calling themselves Global Tech solutions or some such that send out a glossy brochure then call up trying to sell useless trading software for a $19,400 fee. I had a chap me last Friday. Now, if they really had a computer program that predicted which stocks were about to jump by 10 % they would keep it to themselves.

    Commenter
    Roger of Scoresby
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 4:21PM
  • I like and totally endorse Privatisation...sell everything, privatise all...including Australian Gov't...ALL.

    Commenter
    Buyer
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 4:11PM
    • Well our politicians have been for sale for years. ICAC is revealing them one after the other. We need a Federal ICAC for the full truth to come out though. Labor could follow precedent set by the Libs and establish RCs into various aspects of Lib policy making, eg winding back FOFA, blind support for coal.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:23PM
    • So, how much are you worth? The paper the prospectus is printed on?

      Maybe your organs are worth something in a run-out sell off of everything.

      How much do you want for your body and do you mind being in a fridge till I die?

      Commenter
      Axis
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:34PM
  • Recent falls in the ASX to below where we started the fin year must have the Treasury revenue calculators & estimators pencilling in a cut to expected capital gains tax receipts from shares. Then add to that the losses from all of those newly acquired negatively-geared properties and the failure of wages to grow to give much in the way of bracket creep to tax collections and a new war, and its no wonder the Budget is in trouble and only 6 months of the year gone.

    Commenter
    mitch of ACT
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 4:06PM
  • Just goes to show exactly how fragile Australia is.

    Overseas markets are at or near record highs but the ASX is 25% off its peak - and the divergence of the ASX from the global trend of recovery to now record or near record highs can be traced directly to the election of the Abbot administration.

    This administration has stalled confidence and stalled inclusion and spending - with the result that we are in recession (the lagging data will confirm this).

    It is now truly the time to put your money under your bed - or invest in overseas equities where the fact no one wants our currency is adding to returns in AUD's (if you wish to repatriate, but better you move o/s and spend there for the next 18 months or so).

    Will the last person left in Australia please turn out the lights?

    We can turn them on again when this administration gets the same result as in Victoria.

    Commenter
    Anon
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 4:04PM
    • Blame Abbott - Labor got the stockmarket up 20% after the GFC, Abbott got it down 25% - with no GFC.

      Scary New World - when's the Wrecker going?

      Commenter
      Axis
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:36PM
    • One minute we did really well through the GFC and didn't decline like other countries, next minute you're complaining we're not growing at the rate of other countries. If you're going to only play the one record could you at least flip it over so we can hear the B side. Surely there's another tune.

      Commenter
      TC
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:37PM
  • Only 7 weeks ago the ASX200 dropped 107 points in a day. In the next 20 trading days the ASX200 added 350 points. No-one can predict the future. Today's sell off might be the start of a turn around or the carnage could continue. There are good reasons for both to happen.

    Commenter
    JW
    Location
    Belgrave
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:55PM
    • Tell me the market up reasons please? Keen to hear a story!

      Commenter
      Liberator
      Location
      SEQLD
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 5:28PM
  • $50B wiped off in two sessions. I like it!

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:52PM
    • Print print more money now....

      Rotate rotate, anywhere....even to banks, anywhere.

      Commenter
      Panic at RBA Potatoes
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:53PM
  • A very short answer to all (below) comments and the feeling of despair....

    CHINA!

    Only China can save you all, give your family a real future...
    Give yourselves to the Chinese Gov't total control and there's at least one little glitter of hope out of a very dark tunnel.

    Commenter
    Hope is China
    Location
    New South Wei
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:44PM
  • On days like today you notice key stocks that have stood up to the selling pressure or even advanced for future acquisition when times are right. Although why investment company DJW should be up today, even though most of the companies it invests in are heavily in the red, shows the contradictions in the market. It's next dividend will be 8c f/f in Jan but it's the 16c f/f in July that you really want. Pity it's paid just after tax time. It's also worth noticing the differences and timing of final & interim dividends to buy in time to get the larger dividend. The smaller dividend is often not worth the risk.

    Commenter
    mitch of ACT
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:41PM
    • I've started stocking up on BBQ briquettes.

      Rumour has it coal will be going through the roof!

      Commenter
      Malik the magic sheep
      Location
      Perth
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:53PM
  • @JohnBB: "Not sure what else I can say. We're broke, the sooner we admit it, the more chance there is ogf some kind of recovery."
    Please explain (with numbers) how Australia is broke?
    Total tax revenue of $370bn, or which BHP corporation tax is only $7bn for example.

    Commenter
    Lucky
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:34PM
    • If we're constantly in deficit, it's not enough money is it? Tax revenue that high is needed because most of the country's on some kind of welfare. Consumption (paid for with debt) has fed the government revenue (albeit not enough). Now no more debt can be taken on (everyone's maxed out), we'll go broke.

      You just don't need numbers, it's a croc. Just logic....Forget the BS theories @Lucky. They're a scam (or rather the way politicians use them are) to transfer all of a nations wealth to the rich. Worked perfectly. You'll eventually see I'm right.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:53PM
    • @Lucky, Haven't you been paying attention to all of the factors weighing on the Budget lately. This month's MYFO is going to be a shocker. The gov't could very well have a real-life Budget Emergency on its hands. Some of its own making but a fair component due to the drop in commodity prices.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:11PM
  • Who gives a "Tinkers" about the value of energy stocks, not everyday working Australians. Far better for lower oil prices to assist the economy and keep inflation lower.

    Commenter
    Yalloak
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:31PM
  • "Australia should not be foolish in thinking it will continue to have uninterrupted economic expansion"

    Uhh ... yeah, pretty obvious. The last 30 years was built on a massive expansion of credit. Household debt went from less than 30% to 160% of income.

    The DOW is recovering better than the ASX for five main reason:

    1) The US actually makes stuff and their economy is far broader and deeper than Australia's. They have a much lower reliance on imports which means a lower $US works in their favour.

    2) Wages are lower and companies can lay off people much easier than in Australia. The remaining employees are much more efficient. The US is the most efficient country in the world which isn't surprising since they lead the world in robotics and computerisation.

    3) Their energy costs have been dramatically reduced by the shale gas revolution so that they are now 1/3rd the cost in Asia. They are heading towards energy self sufficiency.

    4) They have very strong legal and democratic processes which allows strong individualism and therefore creativity. China on the other hand will suffer increasing social disharmony because of their failure to implement a social democratic system. No two democracies have ever been at war. China is heading for a nasty lesson over the South China Sea and internal upheaval. The US is well placed for the second US century.

    5) The private debt is much lower which makes them well placed for a consumer led recovery. Consumption feeds into employment which feeds back into consumption. Governments cannot make an economy. Only individual demand and production can.

    Australia had its time in the sun and it wasted the benefits. Now for the dog days.

    Enjoy!

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:27PM
    • Point 3. We in contrast,force our energy prices higher and then wonder why our manufacturing dies.

      Commenter
      Murray
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:34PM
    • Can't wait for the finger pointing. Very soon I think.

      1. G. Kelly retired.
      2. LNP Vic one term
      3. SMH headlines 1st Dec 2014
      4. Recent 180 degree uturn by many media commentators
      5.
      6.
      7.
      TBCont.

      Gillard and Swan will come out soon and deny they meant what we've misinterpreted.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:35PM
    • @Johnbb Well I always understood that "no cuts to schools, no cuts to health, no cuts to the ABC or SBS, no excuses no broken promises, no surprises" meant just what it said. All of these broken promises have eroded consumer confidence and the market will be in the doldrums until that recovers.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:50PM
    • Great post Allan, a little shocked you didn't end it with 'Housing Boom!' though :p

      Commenter
      Bull Dozer
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:25PM
  • It's official. Today is dreadful for a long-term holder of many ASX stocks.

    A LOT of margin calls and panic selling must contribute to the rout. BHP is not worth 10% less than it was less than a week ago, for example.

    R.

    Commenter
    Roadsta
    Location
    Brisneyland
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:26PM
    • Short in the money by 22%. Can go a lot lower.

      Commenter
      Allan
      Location
      Prahran
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:41PM
  • "The economist Jeremy Rifkin, in his book The End of Work, writes that technology will inevitably eliminate the need for workers. He estimates 75 per cent of jobs in industrialised nations are repetitive in nature, and these are the ones most likely to be swallowed up by robots and machines."

    www.theage.com.au/small-business/smallbiz-tech/rage-against-the-machine-20131216-2zgp0.html#ixzz2nbu2Izat

    That is one side of the problem facing the global economy. The other side is that the most valuable companies in the world, energy companies, are based on valuations of resources in the ground that cannot be exploited without destroying the planet.

    The fundamental basis of global economic thinking and policy is 100 years out of date.

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:24PM
  • I love the smell of fear. It makes little fish easy pray for bigger fish shorting to make large profits then going long at the right moment later by buying cheap of people's shares who were scared off into selling. On days like these I appreciate being debt free with no margin loans nor any stop loss to force me into selling. Market makers can see stop losses and have sophisticated software to trigger an avalanche of stop loss selling to the detriment of small fish.

    Commenter
    Michael_1
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:19PM
  • The parody today is when ASX is sea of BLOOD, blood maker CSL is few exceptional green in the board..go figure

    Commenter
    jacee
    Location
    sydney
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:19PM
  • 100% cash...waiting, waiting, waiting. Quite a while yet I think.

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:17PM
    • I'm beating your cash John, MTU is up 45% Sorry. I just like beating the bank, no hard feelings

      Commenter
      Happy
      Location
      Trader
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:29PM
    • @Happy..Excellent...How did you stumble upon that?

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:41PM
  • Maybe we will get the sub 0.85c and sub-5,000 quinella after all. Better late than never...

    Commenter
    green sheep
    Location
    still holding breath
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:16PM
  • anyone got thoughts on OZL ??

    Commenter
    potus
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:15PM
  • No big deal about today's 100 point loss. It is only the second one since May 2013. Economic and market fundamentals are still strong. We will recover from it and will forget about it as if it never happened when ASX200 crosses 6000.

    Commenter
    PJ
    Location
    Unemployed
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:10PM
  • anyone game to buy in this last hour of trading or are we going to see the sell off accelarate ?

    Commenter
    wouldnt touch it
    Location
    with a barge pole
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 3:02PM
  • Selling shares at these levels and these prices will mean harakiri. The current sell off is being driven by nervous nellies and short sellers.

    Stay calm and stay invested. Well you see it is still a bull market you know.

    Commenter
    PJ
    Location
    Unemployed
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:55PM
    • @PJ I agree with your first statement and disagree with your last.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:04PM
    • But you said it was a bear trap.

      Commenter
      Confused
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:16PM
  • Just as Bhp, Rio and Vale are overproducing to put their competition out of business so too are the oil producers. Acting as monopolies these monoliths' behaviour is probably illegal in the USA. If so things could get interesting. Time will tell. Meanwhile cheap oil for China is a plus.

    Commenter
    Wally
    Location
    Flynn
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:52PM
    • The Saudis, in particular, could suddenly find themselves running out of spare parts for all kinds of things, especially in the defence area.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:06PM
    • I reckon they would quickly make friends with russia and china who would take up the slack. they do make the best fighters jets in the world.

      Commenter
      smilingjak
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 5:25PM
  • my spider senses are tingling. I get the feeling we have been sold out so what little we have left can be snapped up for nothing like greece.

    Commenter
    smilingjack
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:52PM
  • Bought BHP, STO

    Commenter
    player1
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:49PM
  • wpl is trading at 6.6 % yield,better than banks!
    Oil price can go up quite easily!

    Commenter
    6.6 % yield
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:45PM
  • Pan crashing down but not sure why? surely not on hine PMI alone? -22% crikey.

    Commenter
    BearShapedBull
    Location
    Part timer
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:39PM
  • Poor ol Metcash gettin hammered on a rough day all round,i quite enjoy shopping at IGA and the local feel to the place,shame all the tight boomers would rather save $3 on some canned imports at Aldi.

    Commenter
    BearShapedBull
    Location
    Part timer
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:35PM
    • Don't forget the bonus pesticides laying dormant in imported food.

      Commenter
      Wally
      Location
      Flynn
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:45PM
    • @BSB all of the grocery retailers are switching to canned imports now. Just avoid the ones from China. The recent falls in the $A could bring them back to using locally-grown and canned. I look forward to summer when I avoid the cans and use the produce of my own veggie patch.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:57PM
  • AMM 21% MTU 41% SKT 9% TME 7% WOW -3% SGH 0% CXZ 0% CSS 10% CZZ 6% AZV -10% ABP 10%

    Was thinking of adding ARI at 21c but after it reached 21.5c in record time I might hold out a while longer. Also AZV and WOW are current dogs, I don't need anymore.

    Commenter
    Happy
    Location
    Trader
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:33PM
  • I shorted the ASX this morning so am already nicely ahead. Question now is when to sell? Wait another day to see if this 'slide' continues or get out now because after two days of heavy declines people will start buy cheap stock tomorrow?

    Commenter
    JW
    Location
    Belgrave
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:27PM
  • ASX has Crash in isolation of the global markets... or does the DOW open limit down?

    Commenter
    Greg
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:22PM
  • Dear JohnBB: please explain to me where the country is going bust?
    Here are the Federal tax revenue trends:
    http://tinyurl.com/lvllyzl

    Commenter
    Lucky
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:09PM
    • @Lucky 2 years out-of-date and does not take into account the recent fall in commodity prices. Prepared in rosier days.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:46PM
    • eric abetz on national tv friday stated that the government was borrowing one billion per month just to cover the interest on its loans. does that sound like we are on top of things? we are still a decade away from having a 4 lane hwy from melbourne to brisbane and will never have fast rail. our entire schooling system has been outsourced to apple and a group who deny science who are tax exempt and believe children need a good rogering to toughen them up. we have nearly nothng left to sell and are on the verge of getting immersed in WW3.

      Commenter
      smilingjack
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:51PM
    • Where to start? That link says nothing. The government is in deficit, they owe hundreds of billions in infrastructure they failed to build in the biggest boom in history. Australians have spent all the boom plus $127k each. The boom's over (all we did really, the funds that allowed the rest of the economy to chug along)

      Not sure what else I can say. We're broke, the sooner we admit it, the more chance there is ogf some kind of recovery.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:16PM
  • ASX loses 4 years of the last 5 years of growth in One and a half days. BUT a company like XRO can go from $3.00 to $42.00 on the ASX without paying one cent in dividends or making one cent in profit. Rort of the highest degree.

    Commenter
    ASX
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:06PM
  • Stop loss' triggered on all energy stocks friday...had em pretty tight pending the opec decision,but out of OSH and STO after trying to accum,- 5% across the board gone....fark, cant pick it at present wondering when the rout will stop? ORG back to my buyin prices from Aug 2013...WPL lookin a little oversold but cant really warrant burning fingers again....all the years gains in current portfolio gone in last 3 trade days, haven't divvy up sells [profit taking] this year but -8% on current holdings lookin shaky time for a sideline view and watch for more stoppys....whats next REITS? blah.

    Commenter
    BearShapedBull
    Location
    Part timer
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 2:02PM
  • Just noticed that since the last high in the AllOrds of 5656.8 on 2/9/14 we have fallen 8.08%. Another 101 points down and it's a correction of 10%. Easily achievable considering all of the headwinds.

    Commenter
    mitch of ACT
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:58PM
    • It did not happen in October and it wont happen in December. Market will fly soon. It is only a matter of time.

      Commenter
      PJ
      Location
      Unemployed
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:58PM
    • How far can it fly with broken wings. Down all the way to XMAS.

      Commenter
      Liberator
      Location
      SEQLD
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:12PM
  • asx "slips". I would hate to see a huge fall.
    what has been the message today? deficit has blown out beyond belief on fanatsy mining revenue forcasts ( gotta love the rba etc who live in fairy land ) and we wont see a surplus within a generation.

    Commenter
    smilingjack
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:51PM
  • Oh happy days indeed! Here in Victoria we just got rid of "King of the (Toll) Road", yeay! Now for that other king, "Old King Cole/Coal" in Canberra. Then can we please have some vision for this country that takes in a view slightly longer than the next 6 months...

    Commenter
    jacey
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:49PM
  • Just wondering how the rest of you are going with your energy stocks.

    Copped a decent flogging here but will ride it out. Just wondering what people on here have done, sold or holding on?

    Commenter
    seriously
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:38PM
    • taking a hiding on WPL and OSH. Bought more WPL and watched it slide more. Going to sit tight. For now....

      Commenter
      Doglover
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:31PM
    • I'm holding onto STO , happy to do so for a long time. Got rid of WOW....never underestimate Aldi...and that Masters problem is just not going to go away.

      Commenter
      potus
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:37PM
    • Sold out right before they took a turn for the worst. Hesitant to buy back in now...

      Commenter
      mannyB
      Location
      Vic
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:52PM
  • @ PJ

    "Dude where's my bull market?"

    cmon , time to concede defeat ? :-)

    Commenter
    dude wheres my bull market
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:28PM
    • @ dude - I have also suffered some big losses on my portfolio but sitting tight is the right thing to do at the moment. Patience pays.

      Commenter
      PJ
      Location
      Unemployed
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:50PM
    • i like your posts PJ , and your entitled to your opinion which we all are so I dont mean to seem like Im attacking you personally , but the sitting tight is what I used to do in the old days before i wised up and realised no price is too low . I think there comes a time , like even know , where even the perennial bulls need to consider " should I be long or even in the market at the moment "? Like the weather , is it summer , autumn , winter or spring and plant accordingly .
      This market is in autumn in my opnion.
      The days of spring goig into summer you want are a long way off imho ,

      cheers

      Commenter
      dude wheres my bull market
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:16PM
  • Nikkei still up 1%, Shanghai up 0.67%. Obviously they see economic stimulus from the lower oil price, unlike this inept ASX. Bet the yanks also go up tonight as well. Go international, dump the ASX.

    Commenter
    cnswmj
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:22PM
  • Who here thinks Saudi Arabia has neither the smarts nor the balls to play chicken with the world? Isn't the real reason to crush the Russian economy? It also works out well for the Saudis to see Iran suffer. And it's a "hidden" QE for the Fed. So many benefits, but as always the US shoot themselves in the foot.

    Commenter
    vladi
    Location
    vostok
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:15PM
    • not me. they have been doing business for several thousand years and are still going strong.

      Commenter
      smilingjack
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:30PM
  • BHP trading below $30!!!

    Today presents a wonderful buying opportunity. BHP cannot get much lower from here. It is a super star stock and is selling a ridiculous price and way below its actual worth due to overture pessimism. I bought 16 BHP share this afternoon @ $29.77 and will hold them forever.

    Commenter
    PJ
    Location
    Unemployed
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:09PM
    • Cheap price and a good buy, assuming it rebounds back. Still wondering why you waste space with these comments... 16 BHP shares? yeah right... Just like Friday's prediction too?

      I ALSO MIGHT ADD, ill be looking at buying them too. I hope the dividend doesn't drop with the share price though!

      Commenter
      mannyB
      Location
      Vic
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:49PM
    • @mannyB - Sorry I cannot buy more than I can afford knowing that I have been unemployed for eight months now.

      Commenter
      PJ
      Location
      Unemployed
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:06PM
    • Just picked up some BHP at $29.40. Very happy, may buy more if it falls further.

      Commenter
      Lucky
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:06PM
    • PJ, is that a typing error or did you really buy 16 shares? Not worth it I would think!

      Commenter
      Buff
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:07PM
    • Exactly. After thirty years in the markets, I can definitely say the ole saying rings true, "it is time in the markets, not timing the markets". I have regularly accumulated BHP for many years, as well as OSH, both of which appear very sad today, however look VERY rosy when compared to average purchase price.
      Buy, and only sell when forced to by a compulsory takeover.

      Commenter
      Pistol Pete
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:26PM
    • @ buff - I only bought 16 shares as I cannot afford more at this stage. Waiting for Westpac dividend which will be paid on 19th December and then I will buy some more shares. If I had more money then I would have bought 16000 shares.

      Commenter
      PJ
      Location
      Unemployed
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:37PM
    • You bought SIXTEEN shares? You certainly must be unemployed. I don't think Warren Buffet is losing any sleep having you on the scene.

      Last I heard, around 20% or BHP's revenues are from oil. I think oil has further to fall, and BHP will fall as well.

      Commenter
      Kovacs
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:40PM
    • Forever is a mighty long time. It's longer than eternity!

      Commenter
      Warren
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:42PM
    • You are a very very wrong!! BHP is going to $10 on the CHINA IMPLOSION AND COMMODITY COLLAPSE during the SECOND GREAT DEPRESSSION

      Commenter
      Assad
      Location
      Legend
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:50PM
    • I like what Allan said about companies wealth being based on what's in the ground that can't be pulled out without destroying the planet.

      We fail to learn anything. Humans are so collectively dumb.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:57PM
    • Great, you've spent all your fortnightly Centrelink payments on BHP...

      Commenter
      Wise Investor
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:19PM
    • your down already then, after closing $29.26. will go much lower I think.

      Commenter
      jec
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:56PM
  • did anybody feel the petrol price down? I don't.

    Commenter
    aaa
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:00PM
    • No.. that is because Petrol sold in Australia is sourced from Unicorn horns which are ground into fine powder by fair Olympian maidens , and power is then mixed with tears of sea Sirens creating Australian Petrol. Both ACCC and Petrol commissioner confirm this.

      Commenter
      DJ77
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:52PM
    • LOL!

      Commenter
      Bull Dozer
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:36PM
  • "Hurt by a sagging property market, unsteady export growth and cooling domestic demand and investment, China's economic growth is expected to slow to a 24-year low of 7.4 per cent this year, though the fourth quarter is shaping up to be possibly weaker than earlier thought."

    Housing boom!

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:00PM
  • Happy Monday.....anyone ?

    Commenter
    happy days
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 1:00PM
  • "One of Tony Abbott's first acts on becoming Prime Minister was to sack the secretary to the Treasury, Dr Martin Parkinson. Parkinson's crime was to believe, as did the government he had been serving, that we need to take effective action against climate change. Abbott also sacked Parkinson's obvious successor at Treasury, Blair Comley, for the same crime. It was a disgraceful, vindictive way to treat loyal and proficient public servants." http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/parko-signs-off-with-summary-of-challenges-and-opportunities-ahead-20141128-11vvqy.html#ixzz3KbeHpg00
    No successors to these key posts in the Treasury portfolio have yet been appointed. Whoever is will have it uppermost in their minds that if they go against gov't ideology they are out the door. This month will see MYEFO published and it is expected to show the worst situation for gov't finances since the onset of the GFC. I am quite confident that without the "frank and fearless advice" it needs this gov't will act in a way that will make a bad situation worse. Cuts, cuts and more cuts on the less well-off in a blind panic rather than cutting where cutting is needed and can be tolerated and will actually be of net benefit to the Budget.

    Commenter
    mitch of ACT
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:51PM
    • Angela Merkel, the German conservative, warned the Libs that this is 2014 and not 1950. Tony has lost 3 elections and won one. If the Libs want to survive they need to listen to what Angela says and get rid of their deadwood.

      Commenter
      Wally
      Location
      Flynn
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:02PM
    • What do you mean with "effective"?

      Effective can only have two meanings: 1) When we reduce our CO2 emission, the world temperature will be reduced in a meaningful way. We all know that even if we cut our CO2 emission to zero we will make no difference to the average temperature of Earth. So it can not be classed as effective under this definition. 2) When we take action we reduce future economic risk to Australia substantially from being left behind in renewable technology. No one so far explained how this could be true. So be my guest and you try. How spending money now on cutting CO2 will make us all better off in the future.

      Commenter
      Michael_1
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:11PM
    • tonty abbott and 99% of his cabinet who fervently believe the world is 5000 years old and was created by a bearded old man that clapped his hands together. they arent stuck in 1950 - they are stuck in the dark ages. oh come all yea faithful....

      Commenter
      smilingjack
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:34PM
  • Just came past to quickly congratulate John, Mitch and Allan for killing the discussion in this forum.

    Look at the posts and replies basically the same 3 people, posting the same stuff everyday and screaming down others everyday at any chance.

    Commenter
    Amused on looker
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:45PM
    • It could be worse you know. We could be sat here making inane comments criticising other peoples' posts and adding nothing to the conversation.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:57PM
    • I virtually ignore the comment section 100%. Pure drivel thanks to the above posters.

      Commenter
      Agreed
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:59PM
    • Not true. We/I also contribute re stocks and market. I'm sorry. I'm just excited Abbott's gone and the market's collapsing as I predicted.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:17PM
    • I do enjoy reading their comments!

      Commenter
      ab
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:41PM
    • Funny about that. I was thinking the same thing.

      Commenter
      Correct
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:53PM
    • If ever a forum needed an 'ignore' function it would be this one.

      Commenter
      Completely
      Location
      Agree
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:02PM
    • Could not agree more. It is fine for them to hold (passionate) views - but please stop boring everyone else by sharing them 20x a day. Editors - Please take note and modify accordingly or you will lose everyone else.

      Commenter
      Rob J
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:07PM
    • Ha ha, Funny seeing people defend themselves.

      But Eds. Is there a way that we can delete the comments section from the side and have it as a separate link? Or just be able to ignore it.

      It ruins a good news feed.

      Commenter
      Enough of this drivel.
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:31PM
    • @Agreed...No you don't. Clearly.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:42PM
    • @ Mitch.

      Too me you comment are inane and a lot of the time incorrect, pointless, repetitive and to be honest just plain boring.

      And why would anyone add anything to the conversation, John, you or Allan will shout them down in an instant with your own brand of tin foil hat logic. Numerous posters have tried but last a few days then don't worry anymore cause they hear the same rubbish day after day and are attacked personally in a lot of cases. .

      Commenter
      Amused
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:43PM
    • Yes I used to read daily but now only look on 'interesting' market days.
      Shame ...could have become an informative forum rather than a soap box for some bored old retirees.
      Eds should give them a months holiday...see what happens eh?

      Commenter
      happy hippy
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:47PM
    • Always hard to see the forest thru 1 eye and with an axe to grind.

      Commenter
      BearShapedBull
      Location
      MugPunters Lounge
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:27PM
    • Oh for God's sake bulls. cheer up! LOL.

      Commenter
      Allan
      Location
      Prahran
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:50PM
  • The Budget was unfair because it hit the less well-off the hardest, significantly reducing pensions and benefits and taking more in threatened co-payments. The LNP is working under the typical Conservative ideology that if you want to cut gov't spending you cut benefits to the less well-off because there are so many of them and it costs so much. No idea of how the economy works. The less well-off spend every $ they get just to live. Those $ get spent several times over in the economic chain, (the multiplier effect), generating taxes from wages, profits & the GST every step of the process. Cut that spending and you cut the taxes generated. The effect on the Budget is immediate savings but reduced tax collections later so the net effect is close to zero over a period of time but a lot of misery and resentment is generated along the way.

    Commenter
    mitch of ACT
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:34PM
    • Stuff it. I give up. Let's just borrow and spend. It will be fun while it lasts.

      R.

      Ps. We all understand the multiplier effect. That is not a reason in itself to blow budget after budget. You cannot do that in perpetuity.

      Commenter
      Roadsta
      Location
      Brisneyland
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:58PM
    • @mitch - what planet are you on? Hockey's deficit levy has put marginal taxes in Australia to some of the highest in the world for the wealthy.

      Hockey correctly decided that the profligate ways of the last couple of years of Howard's and all of Rudd and Gillard's rule could not be sustained. Moreover, these former PMs spent during the boom years and now Hockey has to pay it back during the lean years. To pay back the deficit he raised taxes by 2%-units for earnings over %180,000.

      That is who was hit by the budget, the well-off.

      Commenter
      Dr No
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:20PM
    • @Dr No Is all you are interested in is the wealthy paying higher marginal taxes while the less well-off pay even high marginal rates in terms of cuts to benefits. With an attitude like that you will always live in envy of the former and pray you never join the latter.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:36PM
    • @mitch - the problem in this country - as in so many Western countries - is that benefits are so high that many choose to live off that rather than working. This is unsustainable in the long run. We're certainly not alone in having this problem.

      When you've got a booming economy where the uneducated are earning top salaries and McDonald's workers have to be flown in from the Philippines on temporary business visas and you still got perfectly healthy individuals claiming benefits, well, then the cuts have to start somewhere.

      It's difficult, populist media can run agenda-driven stories every day about this or that person losing their benefits. To do what is right is not always to do what is popular - as batman said in Dark Knight. To cut takes courage, to borrow requires no skills nor courage.

      Commenter
      Dr No
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:58PM
    • @ Dr. No - once again the data point to you being a know-nothing blow-hard.

      http://www.oecd.org/social/expenditure.htm

      I would suggest that by OECD standards we run a fairly tight ship. Then again, you are convinced that the budget really beat up the wealthy more than the poor, so your analytical skills are clearly in question.

      Too much Zero Hedge and Bible study I suspect...

      Commenter
      Oh_Mighty_Zeus
      Location
      Mount Olympus
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:12PM
    • @Oh_Mighty_Zeus - when the budget is cut everybody gets "beat up".

      Regarding your chart - we haven't budged much since 2007. If we compare with a similar country that also has been booming since 2007, namely Canada, we've actually maintained social spending whereas they have cut their spending sharply.

      Commenter
      Dr No
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:31PM
  • While the markets reflect that we are not an advanced industrialized nation our hungry eyes have turned to jolly Joe.
    When young Joe tramped into the Reps to present his budget he was brimming with confidence. Attack the poor, attack students, attack the sick heck just attack attack attack. Help the rich, yes, help the multinationals, yes, yes, yes.
    All's good.
    Arr poor Joe. Times are different to the days of Menzies. Today's punter expects money to be shoveled at them, not taken away and oh, your leader. You can't keep a 1950s leader who has lost 2 elections anymore.
    Finally you should listen to Angela Merkel. Remember Joe that you can't look after the rich if you are not in government.

    Commenter
    Wally
    Location
    Flynn
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:30PM
    • Two things they've got absolutely right in Germany are that 1. they always run prudent balanced budgets and 2. they tax families very lightly, whereas single earners and DINKs get his hard.

      I would like to see both concepts adopted in Australia. Parents who are investing in the future of this country should be rewarded whereas those who can't be bothered and spend their earnings on consumer goods instead should have to compensate by paying more tax.

      Commenter
      Dr No
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:24PM
    • @Dr. No re: Germany budget deficits/ surpluses - Your comment is - as indeed most of your comments are - absolutely brimming with wrongability. The Germanians have barely run a budget surplus since the early 90's.

      http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/government-budget

      Still, never let a fact get in the way of a bias, eh?

      Commenter
      Oh_Mighty_Zeus
      Location
      Mount Olympus
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:02PM
    • @Oh_Mighty_Zeus - They've been in budget surplus for the last two years, whereas we've been in deficit when we shouldn't have.

      Commenter
      Dr No
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:30PM
  • Eds, see what happens when you don't publish replies to all the Nouriel Roubini wannabes?

    They take over and flood the comments section with what should be considered spam! Who wants to read the same thing over and over again. So boring now!

    Commenter
    GS
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:25PM
    • Have to agree, I can't be bothered atm as well, just signed on to get an update. As for the comments, yep same same I am guessing.

      Landed a nice little cod 30 minutes ago, beat the lovely Ms Hunter for a change, she has only managed 2 carp today.

      Good luck punters, looks like we need it atm

      Commenter
      hunter
      Location
      the punter
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:38PM
    • There are only half baked replies. Not worth publishing. Come up with real argument. Impossible.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:42PM
    • Nailed it, banging the same drum, flogging the same deadf horse day afetr day.

      you can even see it from Johns reply above,

      Dismisses everyone else's opinion / thoughts cause John is 100% right 100% of the time and if you dont l;ike it he will shout you down.

      Commenter
      Enough of this drivel.
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:36PM
  • Interesting to remember Woodside shareholders rejecting the $US2.68 billion proposal to buyback 78.3 million shares from Shell. The proposed buy back price of US$2680
    million payable by Woodside was based on a share price of A$36.49 representing a 14 % discount to the volume weighted average price of Woodside shares over
    the five trading days up to and including Monday 16 June 2014. Good luck for Woodside it avoided the higher price, and with low debt and plenty of cash Woodside balance sheet looks strong. Not saying its a buy but shareholder vote saved Woodside hundred's of $Mill.

    Commenter
    Billy
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:19PM
  • Medibank - MPL

    With today being the first day small investors have direct access to their share to sell, and it being such an awful day out there in the market, the price is holding around $2.15, with buyers and seller numbers more or less in balance.

    Whooda thunk.

    R.

    Commenter
    Roadsta
    Location
    Brisneyland
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:18PM
    • Won't be selling mine anytime soon. I want to give them a chance and see where they head

      Commenter
      mannyB
      Location
      Vic
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:38PM
  • Double ARI long, 23c. Gift.

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:10PM
    • dollar stake?

      Commenter
      DR
      Location
      Clovelly
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:24PM
    • wow -9.5% just like that, golden touch or what.

      Commenter
      Cashew Gallery
      Location
      In the Mix
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:05PM
  • "House buying fatigue, faltering economy hitting house prices in two biggest markets."

    Housing boom!

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:09PM
    • Sell and lock in tax free capital gains. Wait for bubble to burst then swoop in and pick up bargains amongst housing bust rubble.

      Commenter
      Ox
      Location
      Kensi Pk
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:44PM
  • "Who could have predicted what a hash a Coalition government would make of its first budget?"....

    Any number of sensible people writing on the right hand side of this blog.

    LNP will not recover from this.

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:07PM
  • The Australian economy has had the rug pulled out from under it but apparently the banks are going to grow at 10-15%pa every year. LOL.

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:06PM
    • No,,,,5% only, plus divs gives you 10-12% .
      That'll do me.

      Commenter
      Peter
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:58PM
  • Told you to go international. Nikkei up 1%! At least their market knows a lower oil price equates to stimulus and growth, unlike the ASX.

    Commenter
    cnswmj
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:06PM
    • sadly our little minnow is easily manipulated

      Commenter
      seriously
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:31PM
  • "OPEC's message to US shale: Drop dead" Aggressive approach from OPEC indicating that this current crisis with the price of oil has a long way to run. http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/28/investing/opec-oil-price-us-shale/index.html Economic war has been declared. Given the nationalities involved and the degree of hostility, what next. Remember where 11 of the 12 9/11 terrorists came from.

    Commenter
    mitch of ACT
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:03PM
  • ASX 200 dropped from 6400 on 9Jul07 to 5700 on 16Aug07. Guess what happen ed next. It jumped from 5700 to reach 6828 on 1Nov07.

    Nothing is permanent. This sell down is temporary. Banks are still strong. Mining will recover and it will a bigger boom. ASX200 is setting up perfectly for a major rally. It will be sharp rally and won't give you chances to buy in. Now is the time to buy and wait and watch as money is made in waiting.

    Stay calm and stay invested. Well you see it is still a bull market you know.

    Commenter
    PJ
    Location
    Unemployed
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:02PM
  • "Pyne's $3b backdown on uni fees"

    Another hole punched in the budget. Verbal gymnastics and ideological idiocy have reduced the government to a laughing stock.

    "Coal is the future" will be engraved on their tombstone.

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 12:00PM
  • http://www.smh.com.au/

    Check out the headlines. LNP is in major damage control. Too late me thinks.

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:56AM
  • afr are reporting that Discovery Communications and Foxtel are preparing to lodge a joint takeover offer of between 25¢ and 30¢ a share for Ten Network Holdings on Tuesday amid signs that Ten,s largest shareholder Bruce Gordon is supportive of Foxtel taking a stake in the struggling broadcaster.

    Commenter
    jc888
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:53AM
  • Oops...Major inconsistency in my message...I said pensioners. I meant people of pension age or those on pension or retired.i.e. above 60 and retired or 67 on the pension.

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:51AM
    • People of reverse mortgage benefit age - yes.

      Commenter
      Snidery Mark
      Location
      NSW
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:44PM
  • At what point do the Execs at BHP have a re-think about the impact of their over-supply, share price under $30, must start hurting their options holdings???

    Commenter
    Greg
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:49AM
  • So when we were in the GFC was the daily movement on shares much worse than this? Of course I know the bank shares were, but other shares?

    Commenter
    RH
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:43AM
    • Lots of companies just disappeared amongst daily seas of red ink.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:33PM
  • UGL has given back $3 per share returning half of the $1B it received from the sale of DTZ to shareholders, so there is at least another $3 per share cash left, yet share price is near $2.

    Even if $165M was writen down on the Ichthys project, UGL would still have $2 per share cash left from the sale of DTZ.

    With the current share price, market is giving a value of zero to UGL engineering business. I think UGL is oversold, so I bought UGL at these levels and will hold for an eventual re-rating of UGL once the new management comes clean and establishes trust.

    Commenter
    Michael_1
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:27AM
    • michael - you are forgetting the $550m in net debt they had.

      Commenter
      willo
      Location
      syd
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:59AM
    • That analysis sounds good but there are still 2.5x the shares for sale in UGL as there are offers to buy. What do they know that you don't. Cost overruns could eat into that cash pile. That's a common problem with engineering companies that underbid to get work against fierce competition, eg FGE. Still one to keep an eye on though.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:14PM
  • Why is FMG giving up all her gains wasn't IO up this morning?

    Commenter
    Jed
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:27AM
    • Can't grow a business when you cut your capex in half.

      Commenter
      DR
      Location
      Clovelly
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:57AM
  • I'll bet that if the Chinese data is postive the ASX will still tank! Totally inept market. Go international to make money!!

    Commenter
    cnswmj
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:25AM
    • The market appears to be quite rational from my perspective. But there is still too much optimism in the ASX.

      Commenter
      Viking
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:05PM
  • "Estimated P/E for FY15 of 9.7. Woolies is on a comparable P/E of 15 and Wesfarmers 19 "

    Surely at least from technical point at 9.7 P/E Metcash is a buy?

    Commenter
    DJ77
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:24AM
    • On my calculations it appears Metcash will make no profits next year. It will be forced to cut prices otherwise it will continue to lose volume to ALDI. A roughly 2% cut in prices will see Metcash break even, and 2% is nothing when you trail in competitiveness in the market. I wonder it they cut dividend again next year, looks likely.

      Commenter
      Viking
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:58AM
    • That depends how much further E of the fraction will slip as the economy worsens. A post-MYEFO mini-Budget will hit retailers hard.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:10PM
  • I think I read somewhere the other day that the ASX is one of the worst msrkets this year along with Nigeria, and they are in the middle of a civil war!

    Commenter
    cnswmj
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:21AM
    • We beat Liberia's stock market though. That's three years in a row now that we beat them!

      Commenter
      Dr No
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:57AM
  • Echoes of the GFC, warning of a repeat. More announcements of voluntary administrators being appointed, CBS today & OGL Friday. Then the increasing number of SPPs and Rights issues. All happened in the lead-up to GFC 1 and all the way through. The huge fall in the share prices of commodity companies indicates that they are the next candidates for capital raisings &/or the scrapheap if unsuccessful. How much in bad debts will they hit the banking sector with. Just hope for private equity &/or the Chinese to come in and take them over, but it will be on the cheap.

    Commenter
    mitch of ACT
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:17AM
  • Will Medibank become part of the ASX200? If so, when will this happen and will it have a positive impact on the index price?

    Commenter
    JW
    Location
    Belgrave
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:09AM
    • should be part of the XFL @ $5.5 billion

      Commenter
      mushy
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:26AM
  • Banks can't defy gravity forever.

    Timberrrrrrrrrr!

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:08AM
    • 30% Overvalued? CBA at $60,,,not likely.

      Commenter
      Peter
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:34AM
    • I assume you are talking about the foreign banks who pay no dividend and make huge fine payments each year to regulators, because - back in reality land - our banks are making record profits.

      The moment I hear Allan is going long the Aussie banks I'm going to consider selling.

      Commenter
      FANATICAL
      Location
      Reality
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:09PM
    • @FANATICAL. On a population that's completely and utterly maxed out. Stop dreaming.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:45PM
  • Can the person who wrote the article on Atlas Iron please correct it so that it makes sense? Thanks

    Commenter
    Allen
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 11:04AM
  • Shares in food & basic retailers MTS & WOW hitting fresh 52 week lows. Casualties of the unfair Budget and wages rising at a slower rate than inflation. Those who consistently call for lower wages now know the consequences on the retail sector of their share portfolios. Serves them right.

    Commenter
    mitch of ACT
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:59AM
    • In my opinion they are casualties based on own stupidity e.g. Masters and poor customer value propositions, as well as waking up to some real competition coming into this market. Costs in Australia are 30% too high, the rapidly falling dollar will fix some of it, unemployment will do the rest.

      Commenter
      Viking
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:25PM
  • Look at the AUD fall! With no interest cut of late, Glen must be rubbing his hands with glee.

    Commenter
    Bull Dozer
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:58AM
    • Last time Iron Ore was at $60 and Oil at $70 and Gold below $1100 AUD/USD was at 68 cents - plenty more left to fall

      Commenter
      Greg
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:12PM
  • remind me again what a 600 point bounce looks like.

    Commenter
    smilingjack
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:51AM
  • Toot Toot! BDR smashes through the 20c barrier, next stop 15c, all aboard!!!

    Commenter
    Insolvency Train
    Location
    Goldfields
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:51AM
    • How is BDR going to become "insolvent" exactly?

      Commenter
      Yeah Right
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 5:24PM
  • S&P/ASX 200 Dec 14 5,281.00 -57.00 5,341.00 5,346.00 5,280.00 18:39:40

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:51AM
  • I have dodged a lot of bullets of late, none more so than DLS!
    Don't worry tho I got it between the eyes with Medusa!

    Commenter
    Ox
    Location
    Kensi Pk
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:50AM
  • "Mr Abbott says he remains "totally committed" to the $7 co payment."

    LOL what a rabble.

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:48AM
    • Tony Abbott’s shadow loomed large over Victorian election. East West link was a local issue for Melbourne and had no influence on rest of Victoria. It may send a message to TA the Pied Piper of Hamlyn that he is PM for common Australians and not just rich, businesses and FOREIGNERS. His one year record is a disaster
      -Balancing budget requires fixing negative gearing, SMSF and FBT rorting, multinationals pay due taxes. Just tinkering on edges by punishing the vulnerable by reducing pensions and medical copayment is injustice. Stop rewarding the cheats before punishing the honest.
      -Stop 457 visas. We do not need them as we have the highest unemployment and we should take care of our young people who are facing a bleak future.
      -Our economy has been turned into “iron ore economy” and “selling farms and RE to Chinese”. It is the most primitive economy in the western world. We deserve better and should have invested in other industries during mining boom.
      -Stop selling businesses and RE to Chinese. They are distorting the RE and TA is selling our future by selling farms and businesses to them No amount of lies spread by RBA, pollies and RE agents cannot change this fact. We cannot have people working on 457visa on farms with high unemployment here. China is a land grabbing nation. They have been bullying neighborhood to grab land, bribing African and South American despots to buy farmland and doing the same here. This will distort thedemography, make food expensive in future and our lifestyle will be controlled by them. It is a wake up call before pollies destroy it any further.
      -Labor is no better as Bill Shorten is another clown talking about bigger Australia.

      Commenter
      xyz
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:33AM
    • What have you got against SMSFs, xyz?
      At least you have control over your own retirement benefits - which is more than I have with my Fed Gov Super (PSS).
      You still haven't responded when I asked last Thursday.
      I know you're there, xyz, please explaion - and don't go changing your moniker to abc or summit else - that's my domain.

      Commenter
      Snidery Mark
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:46AM
    • @Snidery Mark
      You should know how franking credits are being abused by SMSF.
      Nothing wrong with SMSF it's abuse has to be stopped.

      Commenter
      xyz
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:36PM
    • @Snidery Mark
      I missed something.
      I have never changed my moniker nor I have any need to change it. You can have your moniker and if somebody else is using it then its not my problem.

      Commenter
      xyz
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:59PM
    • Thanks for the response, xyz. I don't like rorters of any kind. If they do dat, then they should stop doin dat, eh?
      Yet you cannot go past pollies for rorters. Barry O'F, lied to Commish, took a bottle bribe and still gets to stay in gov't and get a nice "retirement" benefit. Mr C Tompson, porn on the public purse, still stay in gov't still get a nice, etc. Bob Hawke and Petey Costello - selling Aussie farmland to UAEs and Saudis - as a second job - as their first job is rorting the Aust people by taking lots in retirement monies. Would you give Julia a free pension? What about Kevohsev? Mr Peter Slipshod, Clive?
      Riseable if it weren't true.
      More compliance control and less lawyers is what we need. And I need to think share market and not taxman when on this page. Lesson learnt.

      Commenter
      Snidery Shaped Mark
      Location
      Kickatinalong
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:08PM
    • xyz: "-Stop 457 visas." -- You lost me here, high unemployment? Are were talking about Australia here? Besides, kids don’t want to work low paying jobs after they finish uni, they all want 100k career jobs or truck driving jobs that pay double that.

      Commenter
      DR
      Location
      Clovelly
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:04PM
    • @DR
      You are just repeating what pollies are saying to justify 457 visas for Gina Reinhart. This is rubbing salt on wounds of younger generation.Did you watch Mission Australia report on Ch9. The majority of them just want to start working and do not want 100k. If you want people to work on less wages then reduce the cost of living and DO NOT SELL HOUSES TO CHINESE. 457 visas are being used to reduce the wages not to fill skill shortages. What we are witnessing today is result of incompetence of pollies in last 30 years. They could not come up with alternative industry other then just iron ore and selling assets. There is no accountability in ACT. We feel happy bleating that Europe is not doing well. The fact is UK, France and Germany are in top 6 economies and are industrial powerhouses. They decided to face GFC head on but we postponed it by changing to phoney economy of selling our future.There is no other decent economy selling its assets and future like us.We have incompetent, self serving and lazy pollies.

      Commenter
      xyz
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:02PM
    • @Snidery Shaped Mark
      Spot on. Could'nt agree more. Once we can fix these loopholes then we will not require medical copayment, reduction in pension etc. It is because of these self serving pollies we have reached here. Pollies are using SMSF and FBT rorting, negative gearing and there was a report they also have their fingers in real esate pie.
      Australia is strong enough to stand on it's own feet but pollies and bussinesses are letting it down.

      Commenter
      xyz
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:20PM
  • Dear SMH, re the poll on ASX year end.

    Why wasn't there an option for a flat end with no gain / loss? Year end tax selling in USA combined with impacts of lower oil on oil companies / junk bond markets could offset the Santa rally.

    ED: Good point but as a complete 'flat' end is fairly unlikely, we thought the 'slightly higher' and 'slightly lower' options would basically cover all the bases without creating too much confusion...

    Commenter
    nolongerconfused
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:48AM
    • Also no option for slashing wrists, drinking a flagon of H2SO4 and jumping out the window.
      If you think she'll rally to be break-even by EOM, then that's very optimistic. I thought the definition of optimist is if you think the bob-tail nag ran a place at the Camptown Races (doo dah) - but, hey, optimism is good. Right up there with daydreaming in my book.

      Commenter
      Snidery Mark
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:41AM
    • Dear Editors, is a glass 1/2 empty or half full?

      The CEO thinks the glass is 1/2 empty, the Head of Retail thinks the glass is half full but the CFO thinks the glass is too big, downsize.

      Commenter
      nolongerconfused
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:34PM
  • So now we know ... the ASX will slip not only when there is, for example, a risk to oil supplies from the middle east, which then causes oil prices to skyrocket, but also when oil prices fall. What an absolute joke!

    Commenter
    Mervyn
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:48AM
  • SOS Gail Kelly

    Leave WBC immediately and fly to Canberra and take over reins of Treasurer/Finance Minister. Joe should have stayed in family business totally inept, can't understand a word Mathias says, TA abysmal...and I'm a conservative voter normally.
    Gail, once u have tidied up budget fix up govt. This is ur patriotic duty!!

    Commenter
    Ox
    Location
    Kensi Pk
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:46AM
    • Won't, can't happen. Look how the Libs treated the last woman who assumed a position of any power in the Parliament. Julie Bishop is only coping because she is adept at adopting the same hairy-chested approach as the rest of them to appear as "one of the boys". That's not Kelly's style at all. Not a bad idea though. The portfolio is clearly way beyond Joe's ability. He would be more at home running a kebab shop than an economy.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:44AM
    • Kelly would want $12m a year. My 6yo will do it via email for a few bucks a week.

      Here's what he's said over breakfast this morning. Make a budget that's fair, stop selling Australian assets, stop populating, get everyone working, fix the roads, resurrect manufacturing and farms, tax international companies we stupidly allowed but us up, attack high wages. It's so simple, it's childs play. If we fail to do this, we're doomed.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:44AM
    • G Kelly is not any solution
      Debt peddlers are not required now.

      Commenter
      mushy
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:52AM
    • @mitch...Had nothing to do with her gender.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:25PM
    • @JohnBB : Bwahahahaha
      "Make a budget that's fair, stop selling Australian assets, stop populating, get everyone working, fix the roads, resurrect manufacturing and farms, tax international companies we stupidly allowed but us up, attack high wages."
      Your 6 year old said this?
      Either he is just regurgitating the stuff he hears from your mouth every day or you are talking nonsense. My money is on BS

      Commenter
      Doglover
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:32PM
    • GK timed her exit from SGB and is doing the same at WBC (hint, hint.) As GK is smart and would like to keep her reputation in tact, until the global economic recovery looks likely, GK would be highly unlikely.

      Commenter
      nolongerconfused
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:56PM
  • ARI is now at 23c, not yet at my purchaser order of 21c. Anyone else see any value in this company?

    Commenter
    Happy
    Location
    Trader
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:43AM
    • Did you double a short on it at 1.60?

      Commenter
      Allan
      Location
      Prahran
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:50AM
    • Whats your problem? I'm asking if anyone else is looking at buying ARI. Your a touchy character

      Commenter
      Happy
      Location
      Trader
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:22AM
  • No need to worry, we've always got huge house prices tied to the boom.

    Oh hang on, that doesn't make sense.

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:42AM
    • Correction...All properties belong or will soon belong to China.

      Commenter
      China is the new Landlord, the new Master
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:59AM
  • Actually, we do have a problem.

    Our economic future will be thrown like a hot potato between the two major parties, with senates under control of absolute fringe loonies – federally and in most states. The one end of politics will continue to offer borrow and spend as the solution, the other will attempt to fix it, but will be unable to do so under an ever increasing interest bill and will be cut off at the knees anyway by aforementioned lunatics in the senate.

    While I think JohnBB’s musings are quite despondent, and alarmist at times, I too think that our inductive logic (worked until now, will therefore continue to work in future) is flawed. (My view, not a quote from John.)

    Anyway, give it a think as we say here in the country that is consuming its luck by the day.

    R.

    Commenter
    Roadsta
    Location
    Brisvegas
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:41AM
    • as opposd to the christian lawyer loonies running the shop now. $300 million for the chaplain conversion program even afer a high court ruling. no problems. 100"s of millions to the "bretheren" no problems.
      fast train to connect the country - your kidding right. good bye geoff shaw and good riddens.

      Commenter
      smilingjack
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:54AM
    • The hostile senate is a reflection of SOME people understanding what's going on and voting for anyone that will stir the place up.

      There will not be a mass change within majority of voters until Australia's wealth is completely gone. The pace is ridiculous, faster than I predicted. Australia the lucky country is finished.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:54AM
    • @Roadsta..."the other will attempt to fix it, but will be unable to do so under an ever increasing interest bill and will be cut off at the knees anyway by aforementioned lunatics in the senate"......They should be cut off. More of LNP will see richer getting richer and poorer rising in numbers and .......just like the US..Populate at everyone else's expense to feed the rich. We'd be idiots to allow big business influence to continue. And that means LNP have to go, they are incapable of changing, I had no idea they'd be this bad though.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:59AM
    • despondent?...Got nothing to do with courage. It's a practical view of reality.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:03AM
  • 5280...Ouch. Gillard and Swan said this boom's got decades to go, and LNP have their entire economic strategy tied to the boom (that's now gone).

    Go Team Australia.

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:40AM
    • My portfolio has beaten the ASX. Currently around 15% for this FY. Why do you trade this Index?? Seems like a silly way to invest John, you should try value investing.

      Commenter
      Jebadiah
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:50AM
    • @Jebadiah..Value? I don't do anything but that.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:24PM
    • No one believed us when we said 5000 by Xmas... well... we are closer to 5000 than 6000 aren't we now. I wonder how many SMSF are getting NUKED this FY already. SMSF buying up RE was a massive mistake. Camel + straws = broken back.

      Commenter
      Liberator
      Location
      SEQLD
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:33PM
    • @Liberator. Read above post. Not everyone fits into your self serving agenda of everyone else is ruined crap!

      Commenter
      Jebadiah
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:01PM
    • @Lib. I know. They are heavily ASX and housing. The market is turning and so has the electorate. Things are going to change.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:25PM
  • Okay. Here's an idea for the budget my 6yo came up with.... Make one that's fair.

    Right out of the box I know. Is there a party or even a politician comprehending this concept?

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:36AM
    • Wow JohnBB, over simplistic thoughts...what is fair? oh its subjective, therefore not provable, measurable or reasonable to use as a basis..so please come back with another approachwhich is specific, measurable, assignable, realistic and time-bound.

      Commenter
      Wwwish Lion
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:08AM
    • I think your 6 year old is spot on - how come she isn't the PM? We've been borrowing money like a drunken sailor since 2008 and we're passing on the bill for this unsustainable party to our children, to your 6 year old.

      This is the very definition of selfishness. To live above your means by borrowing money and hope that our children and grandchildren kick up the bill. It's selfish, it's stupid, it's even evil in many ways. It constitutes a right our war on our children.

      Commenter
      Dr No
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:12AM
    • @Wwwish Lion...Not so hard Wwwish Lion.

      Raise GST, pensioners exempt. Fixed. Attack high wages, anything over $300k taxed at 80%. Anything over $400k 150% tax. It's that simple.

      Of course from memory you think everyone but the rich should pay. Well I'm here to tell you that's over. The mood of the electorate has well and truly changed. You can't see that?

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:49AM
    • Hahaha even socialists would not agree 150% tax could ever be fair.
      For the record, no i dont think everyone but the rich should pay. I think everyone should pay. I for one am ok with the tax I pay, but people like you should appreciate the contribution we make, and we need real tax reform, not just simple tax the rich robin hood rhetoric. A good start would be internet sales reforms so that items sold to australian consumers or businesses must be treated as australian based income, then addressing related party cross boarder loans.

      Commenter
      Wwwish Lion
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:33PM
    • @wwwish.."but people like you should appreciate the contribution we make"...No they don't. They take an unfair wage and blow it all on housing. How does that help Australia?

      The rich, or rather anyone earning above $200k have to surrender their unfair compensation for "work". I've seen them wwwish, I've been one, I've worked all over the place in all sorts of roles. High wage earners do not earn their money. They need to reigned in, and also taxed more. Of course companies need to be too. Welfare needs to change. A whole host of changes are needed, not the disgraceful budget presented. Go and have a read of Gittens today.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:25PM
  • WOW is getting cheaper everyday, I mean its share price not the products in its supermarkets.

    Market clearly decided to ignore what chairman said and get on with re-rating WOW. I think it is heading towards $25 for its next support level.

    Commenter
    Michael_1
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:36AM
  • ORG under $12. ORGan Donor swore black and blue it could never, ever happen and now he has vanished.

    Housing boom!

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:35AM
  • "We see Sydney growing probably somewhere between 5 and 7 per cent"
    How is this small growth? This is ridiculous, prices in Sydney are insane! Insane in the membrane!!!

    Commenter
    Cypress
    Location
    Hill
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:28AM
    • Long term Sydney residents cashing in their houses,selling to a new wave of o/s investors and migrants,leaving Sydney for a better life in the unspoilt regional areas of NSW and QLD.

      Commenter
      Cuallater.
      Location
      Notsydney.
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:38AM
    • Do not despair, China is coming. China will provide with free housing, free education, great health system. Support China now and they will assist. You don't have to do anything...just do not fight, do not resist and China will assist.

      Commenter
      China NOW!
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:48AM
    • mate at my daughters public school here in the adelaide hills we had a 20 chinese couples do a tour on friday getting ready to bring their kids over and move in. ka ching. its a small world now. Im guessing that is 20 cshed up couples that will be looking to buy in the area real soon.

      Commenter
      smilingjack
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:56AM
    • So? That doesn't address the sky high prices here at the moment, oh, and the BBQ's where people are sitting on $100-200K in equity just for buying a mortgage is painful. Good for you guys though trying to talk them down. Maybe everyone will read this page and they will all try well at the same time hey? Good for you.

      Commenter
      Cypress
      Location
      Hill
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:58AM
    • pack it up pack it in, let me begin.

      he was clearly talking about existing residents leaving and higher density

      Commenter
      brian
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:18AM
    • I am working first hand with a TONNE of NSW boomers who are cashing in and making the the move to Bris / GC. Not a housing boom but a retirement cashing in boom. We have some movement in the Aged Care Developments and High Rise (with a lot of foreign owners!!!) here but nothing much else. FHBs are still NON-EXISTENT!

      Commenter
      Liberator
      Location
      SEQLD
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:36PM
  • Mathew Guy, the Minister for Tall Buildings...

    http://www.theage.com.au/photogallery/national/cartoons-for-monday-december-1-20141130-3liy0.html?selectedImage=3

    Housing boom!

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:27AM
    • Mathew Guy ,- Minister for "VIRTICALIZATION "

      What an obnoxious ,arrogant little upstart .
      Where does the Liberal Party find such an offensive fool .
      He once stated that Victoria was experiencing a Real Estate boom -akin to the Gold Rush .
      During the Gold Rush ,developers built quality Bluestone buildings ,-unlike the high rise architectural crap being built today ,-just to line the pockets of greedy developers .who prey on Naïve real estate "Investors "
      If the Liberal party appoint Mathew Guy to the position of leader ,- the Liberal Party will be out of office for a long, long time !

      Commenter
      HARRY JENKINS
      Location
      armadale
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:10AM
  • "China has 50 million empty apartments, and its boom is going bust."

    And a plunging $A will be good for which sate? Yep, Victoria!

    And they said resources would boom for decades.

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:24AM
    • Yep. But they are all coming here to our apartments. No one really cares about there apartments. he he

      Commenter
      Giggle
      Location
      Pot
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:31AM
    • "No one really cares about there apartments"

      You mean except iron ore and coal companies. How's the balance of trade looking?

      Commenter
      Confused
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:46AM
    • Hah! I recall this boom was supposed to go on for 50 years. First China then India, then the moon! The economic geniuses made predictions for 50 years ahead but couldn't see right in front of their noses, that no one wants to burn coal in the future.

      Housing booooooom!

      Commenter
      henry
      Location
      melb
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:03PM
  • It pains me to say it...the only sure thing in this market is QAN! Up, up and away with TAA!

    Commenter
    Ox
    Location
    Kensi Pk
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:22AM
    • Now I would expect to see a big reduction in air fares to reflect lower fuel costs. However my awful sense of reality tells me that will only happen when the flying kangaroo is replaced by the flying pig. What QAN has to realise is that petrol prices will fall, somewhat, so for local holiday travel it will be a lot cheaper for a family to drive rather than fly and pay inflated air fares and credit card surcharges.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:39AM
  • Make donations to parties illegal. Make performance bonuses illegal, cap maximum wages or Australia and Australians will be worse than Greece very soon.

    What's it going to take for the majority to finally work this out? It's not that hard. There's examples all over the world.

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:21AM
  • This drop in energy prices may well trigger the next GFC which in turn may trigger further expansions of the powerful nations. It is inevitable that Australia will become part of the Greater China. We'll see at least 200 million, highly educated, highly capitalised, hard working and disciplined Chinese workers down under. What a beautiful sight, what wonderful hope to many.....

    Commenter
    China is the future
    Location
    New South Wei
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:17AM
    • But according to our politically correct leadership this could be good for the economy. There will be no changes in our culture because of it. Those 200 million will simply become Australians. In the same way that British colonisers 200 years ago simply become aboriginal. There was no change in culture on this continent as such because of the first fleet.

      Commenter
      Dr No
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:04AM
  • Nice one Swiss!

    Commenter
    Goldman
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:14AM
  • How's the 60 min story on banks? Where's the reporters and media concern with what they're doing to Australia?

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:14AM
    • JohnBB I am with you ! Why so long to brought out into the open ? Face facts its happening here with fracking companies backed by banks. Time to move bank accounts

      Commenter
      Sir Walter
      Location
      Ivory Tower
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:50AM
  • ...."chronic revenue shortfall caused by successive governments which treated the "rivers of gold" in company tax receipts from a temporary mining boom as if it were a permanent new revenue source".....

    I must have missed where the RBA, treasury and big business issued their warnings. Anyone see any? Australia, is dying; killed by self interest.

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:12AM
  • I totally agree loomy. Has totally nothing to do with our market. Just another lame excuse for this market to selloff.

    Commenter
    cnswmj
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:11AM
  • The government, RBA, treasury and have nothing to worry about, this mining boom has decades to run.

    What's that? IO's halved. Oh. How didn't they see this coming? All the sensible people did. Hey, do treasury, RBA and LNP need a consultant? My 6yo's looking for some pocket money.

    Commenter
    JohnBB
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 10:10AM
    • 10yr IO chart. plain as day the trend is down

      http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=iron-ore&months=120

      Commenter
      mushy
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:48AM
  • Why is our Share Market tanking in regards to the falling Oil Price??

    We are NOT a Oil Producer...we have already dropped 80 odd points on Friday...why again today?

    It seems the ASX is the planet's sponge for reacting badly to ANY negative news even if that news does not directly impact us as it would other markets much harder!

    Commenter
    loomy
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:59AM
    • I would almost say that lower oil prices in the main are good for our economy and the people. It should result in lower fuel prices which is tied into everything from freight to plane ticket costs. There will be a lag effect from when we see the benefits of this though.

      Commenter
      SI
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:26AM
    • LNG contracts are linked to global oil prices. Why do you think the AUD is taking a thumping?

      Commenter
      Catch 22
      Location
      "we don't need no manufacturing." famous last words
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:28AM
    • Seriously?

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:33AM
    • Lower oil price is the best stimulus for a country’s economy. So don’t pay too much to ASX’s movement.

      Fundamentals/long term investing/divs are your friends.

      Retailers are well positioned to benefit from the drop in oil price. I’ve bought some shares in SUL, MYR, and JBH and will be holding them until 2016.

      Commenter
      ProudGeek
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:17AM
  • "Remember the “fiscally responsible” Liberal Party? Turns out it has been on something of a borrowing spree, due to double Labor’s debt by the end of 2015"

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/10/27/coalition-on-track-to-double-labor%E2%80%99s-debt-and-deficit/

    Commenter
    Fred
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:49AM
    • This is ridiculous. We wanted hope & change - not Labor Lite.

      If the prime minster cannot set us on a path to a balanced budget we will have to show our wrath at the next election.

      Commenter
      Dr No
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:01AM
    • They're getting thrown out Fred, then we'll get the other clowns. Australia, bankrupt within a decade.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:15AM
    • I thought everyone was protesting when they were going to have a surplus?

      now we're up in arms when there is going to be a deficit?

      I'm confused

      Commenter
      Klutch
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:20AM
    • Had a giggle at the news people last Friday before the VIC election.
      It's Labor or the Coalition - thems your choices. Voting system sucks. Democratic choice? Yeah, one of two - that's yer lot. Woollies or Coles? If you don't vote for Woollies or Coles, then they change your vote to Woollies or Coles. End up with lawyers of one flavour or t'other - and you can't use your flybuys or your discount dockets with either.
      Meantime, I'm waiting for this weeks announcement of another flood levy to help the bananabenders out after this weeks imminenet storms.
      Yoohoo, Mr Newman, insured your infrastructure yet? No wonder Mr Abbot wants to sell it orf, eh?

      Commenter
      Snidery Mark
      Location
      NSW
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:41PM
  • "Commonwealth Bank of Australia boss Ian Narev wants Australian regulators to delay imposing rules on banks to hold billions of dollars in extra capital, as a buffer against financial shocks, until global standards are rolled out in over a year's time."

    The richest country in the world has developed an interesting mantra on international issues from refugees to climate change to financial reform:

    "YOU FIRST"

    ROFLMAO!

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:34AM
    • No CEO is going to roll anything that costs THEM money personally.

      Can anyone see the problem with massive "performance" bonuses yet? No, still can't....

      Leave it another decade, we'll all know then.

      Politicians, big business, CEO's, RBA, treasury, all have the number 1 guiding principle. Self interest. Anyone thinking we're on a good path is a fool. Time will prove that.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:19AM
    • Who are you saying is the richest Country on the Earth?

      Commenter
      pegarmo
      Location
      hunter
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:24AM
    • Gail bailed at the right time and is eyeing off his role no doubt......time will tell

      Commenter
      khronos
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:29AM
    • Allan: Why should Aussie banks which are so minute in the scheme of global banking have to wear costly capital holding measures when the rest of the world that actually matters (ie. America and Europe) get to hold off on doing this for what will probably be a few years? It is the shareholders than will suffer as margins erode, which is every Australian given they are in every super portfolio across the nation. Imposing conservative capital requirements on an already overly conservative banking system (compared to the rest of the world) is hardly making Australia more competitive.
      Housing Boom!

      Commenter
      DR
      Location
      Clovelly
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:02AM
    • Big 4 banks are all in the top 25 globally.
      Comfortable with that?

      Commenter
      mushy
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:55AM
  • "Deloitte economist Chris Richardson says Treasurer Joe Hockey's prediction of a balanced budget in 2017/18 is 'well and truly toast'."

    Joe Hockey is an embarrassment. Large deficits are now predicted for the next decade due to Joe's ideological crusade and sheer incompetence.

    Housing boom!

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:32AM
    • Not all Joe's fault. His Budget was based on much higher prices for commodities than apply now. No-one, not even the experts on here, saw these price falls coming way back in May. The Budget s always doomed to fail miserably though because it was just so basically unfair and was not going to get through the Senate.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 9:55AM
    • It's just not fair,
      Labor promised us so much,never ending booms and increases in welfare,Fibre to every home,more money for disabled,free living for anyone who could get here,more money for health,pensions,hospitals and more.
      How can it not be affordable? Someone will loan us some more money won't they?
      It's all Tony's fault. Why does he have to try and fix anything?

      Commenter
      Jon
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:23AM
    • the badly constructed tax base shows it's faults finally.

      Commenter
      mushy
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:43AM
  • I’ll be buying nab depending on price movement today
    Open trades : Long RIO

    Started posting 11/14
    Record: Read as : # trades / winners / breakeven / loss
    2 / 0 / 1 / 1
    Note: Winners are only counted if reaches 100% of expected ,trailing stops triggered that create a profit will be counted as breakeven .

    1)+.09
    2)-.52
    Bal : $-0.43 (never includes open trades)


    May all the traders have winners today .

    Commenter
    mechanical trader
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:32AM
  • Bring on that sweet sweet oil supply!

    Commenter
    Jed
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:32AM
    • Not one phone call for my sons v6 Commodore which has been for sale for a month. Price is a steal given its great condition. My son says no one wants gas guzzlers anymore Dad. Maybe the worm is starting to turn.....cheap fuel, yeah right, a sliding Aussie dollar will do us no favours at the pump.

      Commenter
      Who wants a big donk
      Location
      ???
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:04AM
    • Wait until we get the new fuel. If you have money to bet, there is a company in the US that is turning gas into petrol....CHEAPLY !! Research and win big.

      Commenter
      Josephus
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:27AM
  • Even if there'd been a yes vote in Switzerland the authorities probably would have just ignored it anyway.

    The Swiss voted to curb immigration from the EU in February, and the government has still not acted on it.

    Commenter
    Fred
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:31AM
  • "ASX to slip on oil"

    Ha he.... I like it!

    First day of Summer...
    Toxic Tony dealt a significant blow...
    Bears partying...

    Happy days!

    Enjoy!

    Commenter
    Allan
    Location
    Prahran
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:30AM
    • Happy days indeed. The world is awash in cheap fossil fuels. Let's see those overpriced and inefficient solar solutions compete with that!

      Commenter
      Picken
      Location
      Choose
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 9:42AM
    • Oil & solar fuel different energy demands. Solar powered cars, trucks,trains and even planes are still a long way off.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 9:52AM
    • Yes Picken, we have an infinite supply of fossil fuels so why should we bother with renewable energy.

      Commenter
      Buff
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:15AM
    • Don't worry the world is moving against CO2 pollution. It's cheap because it's being replaced.

      Commenter
      Allan
      Location
      Prahran
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:17AM
    • If oil and solar fuel are different energy demands,how stupid is it that solar electricity is being forced into the electricity grid,forcing the price up,simply to satisfy green ideals and all being ultimately paid for by the taxpayer.

      Commenter
      Loki
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:28AM
    • Buff, In the 70's we were told oil would run out by the year 2000.
      Funny how there is still plenty of it.

      Commenter
      Murray
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:33AM
    • As proven last week, solar is cheaper than new coal fired plants. By 2020 it will be half the price.

      Commenter
      Allan
      Location
      Prahran
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:41AM
    • No,,,wrong.

      Commenter
      Loki
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:58AM
    • The solar plant runs at 15% of full capacity,vs 90% for coal.
      If we had no coal plants we would be in serious trouble.

      Commenter
      Loki
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:02AM
    • No, not wrong, The Climate Institute you quoted last week said so. The existing coal plants will eventually be phased out. Peak summer spikes can be handled much cheaper by solar as has been easily proven.

      Commenter
      Allan
      Location
      Prahran
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:57AM
    • Murray, there is less oil in existence now than there was in the seventies. You see, it really is a finite resource, get it?

      Commenter
      Buff
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 12:55PM
    • Yes,,wrong. Factor in the cost of trying to supply solar power at night time.
      Factor out the RET /REC subsidies.
      Hydro,nuclear and gas are the way to go,,,,
      not solar,not wind.

      Commenter
      Peter
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:05PM
    • "Peak summer spikes can be handled much cheaper by solar as has been easily proven"

      Solar cannot provide baseload. So we'll have Nuclear and/or fossil fuels for quite some time yet.

      And don't bother trying to use BrightSource’s LPT solar thermal system in California’s Mojave Desert as an example of baseload. It's for peak hours in the day only. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

      Commenter
      Old King Coal
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:32PM
    • For a start coal use will be halved. Peaks in daytime can easily be handled by solar. That's why the coal price has collapsed.

      Households will move to solar/battery for their household plus car.

      Commenter
      Allan
      Location
      Prahran
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:19PM
    • Buff ,yes I know it must be finite,the point I was making is that green idealogues have been exaggerating the demise of fossil fuels for a long time,and they're still at it.

      Commenter
      Murray
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 3:30PM
    • "Households will move to solar/battery for their household plus car."

      You forgot to say when. Oh and you forgot to mention Residential consumption accounts for less than one third of all consumption.

      Commenter
      Old King Coal
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:48PM
  • Can anyone explain why the oil price is having such an effect on the ASX? It's not as if we have oilfields all over the country and are a major exporter. All the digests I'm reading say it is a stimulus as imports are cheaper! So what's wrong with the ASX or is it just another excuse?

    Commenter
    cnswmj
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:29AM
    • It could be the FOMO. Sell stocks to buy fossil fuel stocks and catch the rebound. :-)

      It's could be the fear of a recession / deflation from reduced demand.

      It could be the fear of junk bond defaults with shale oil Co. in USA.

      With different risk / investment profiles, it could be a combination of all fear.

      Lower oil prices provide consumers a bonus to offset the wage deflation, to keep non resource assets inflating a bit longer.

      Commenter
      nolongerconfused
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:31AM
    • Mass exodus of foreign money. It hasn't even started. We'll lose our AAA rating and then the fun will start.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:44AM
    • "All the digests I'm reading say it is a stimulus as imports are cheaper".....

      Huh? No way. The exact opposite.

      Commenter
      JohnBB
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:45AM
    • Continuing sign that the world is heading back to recession / depression. Not that anyone here thought the merry-go-round would last forever or bet their entire SMSF on it!

      Commenter
      Liberator
      Location
      SEQLD
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:12AM
    • when really its just that the middle east no longer has the USA at its ransom and so a "fair" price for a gift left by God and has no cost but for the pumping to the surface. It should provide businesses with positive stimulus especially industrial ones - farming....

      Commenter
      Greg
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:53AM
  • When even a Wallabies captain is chaining himself to their machinery in protest, it might be time to dump your shares in Whitehaven

    Commenter
    Fred
    Location
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:26AM
  • The sell off on ASX 200 on Friday was a bear trap. No sell off at all in the overseas markets last week. Iron ore prices recovering slowly as expected due to seasonal stock piling by China before their new year celebrations. Cheaper petrol prices will have an overall positive impact on Australian economy. It is like a tax cut or rate cut. Sell this morning and you will regret. ASX 200 bounce back expected anytime after 1030 this morning.

    Stay calm and stay invested. You see it is still a bull market you know.

    Commenter
    PJ
    Location
    Unemployed
    Date and time
    December 01, 2014, 9:20AM
    • The bull market ended in 2007.

      Commenter
      Confused
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 9:48AM
    • @PJ even after the ignominious drubbing your predictions got on Friday you are still in there spruiking away. Never say die, but is that your guts spread out around you.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 9:49AM
    • @ confused - growing old is mandatory, growing up and staying confused is optional.

      Commenter
      PJ
      Location
      Unemployed
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 9:53AM
    • @ mitch- a winner never quits and a quitter never wins. I choose wisely and I don't give up and quit.

      Commenter
      PJ
      Location
      Unemployed
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 9:58AM
    • @PJ you do know that there are training programs teaching basic maths and the laws of probability and randomness to help cure problem gamblers so that they don't keep chasing their losses.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:09AM
    • With the Au$ getting lower,taxes increasing due to J Hock, fuel will remain relatively same price for Aussies. End result: ASX at 5250 or less by February 2015.

      Commenter
      Josephus
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:25AM
    • Are you an investor or trader PJ?
      Sounds like you are an investor and if so, how large a draw down do you allow on your investments?

      Do you simply look for history to repeat as others have done by claiming a 10.30am bounce? Doesn't sound like what an investor would do?

      If you're using FIB do you have access to "smart money information" realtime - course of sales info or are you a long term position holder?

      How are your levels holding up?

      Commenter
      khronos
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:28AM
    • @PJ I understand that you are unemployed at the moment. Don't, whatever you do, describe yourself as "Stock-Market pundit" on your CV. Nevertheless good luck in finding a job, soon. Then you won't have anywhere near the opportunity to talk the market down by reverse suggestion as you are doing now.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 10:54AM
    • As manipulation of all markets is rife and beyond doubt, I'll forecast any gain from lower oil will be offset by a lower A$.

      RBA board may be hoping for a lower A$ but the fear will be imported inflation. The pressure will be on RBA and APRA for macro prudential controls for property unless higher unemployment removes that fear.

      Commenter
      nolongerconfused
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:01AM
    • And I suppose today's sell off is another bull trap? And 35% down from the 2007 high is another bull trap?

      Commenter
      Allan
      Location
      Prahran
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 11:55AM
    • Mitch Of the ACT. I can't believe that you are bagging other people about predictions. From memory your record was zero from 10 earlier this year. My dog does better.

      Commenter
      Goldfinger
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:18PM
    • Mitch, you really need to have a look at what you have written to PJ and take your own advice. His reluctance to admit when he is wrong and to keep banging the same drum day after day even when he is wrong mirrors your own attitude. I find it laughable that you even write such comments as I would find it laughable if PJ was writing the reverse. You are both so similar but with different views of the market.

      Commenter
      Independent Observer
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 1:49PM
    • @Goldfinger & Independent. Read my recent predictions and tell me where I am wrong. As an example I write this on 18th Nov. "Yesterday I drew attention that the AllOrds for this year was mirroring this time of year for last year. Last year the AllOrds on 17th November closed at 5396.2. Yesterday 17th November we closed at 5396.6. It has been like this since 14th October. From this point last year the market fell another 330 points to 5069 on 12/12/13 before dragging itself out of the gutter for an Xmas rally but fell back to 5088 on 5th Feb 14. Conditions this year are bleaker than last and even yesterday's ground-breaking free-trade deal with the promise of more to come couldn't drag the market up. So how far will we fall."
      And that was well before the recent fall in the price of oil making things a lot worse.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 2:51PM
    • Sorry Mitchell from the ACT You're one from eleven.

      Commenter
      Goldfinger
      Location
      Sdney
      Date and time
      December 01, 2014, 4:07PM
Comments are now closed