So, my previous post on Trevor Loudon, ACT's vice-president, generated a hell of a lot of comments on this blog. You should at least read the initial post before this one, but reading the comments, Trevor's half-arsed reply and maybe even the feature on Aotearoa Indymedia in order to see where this story is at.
Trevor offers a few answers. I'll go through them here.
One is that the claim of ties and expulsion is a total fabrication on the part of the author/authors, or Mr Zandbergen.
He manages to extrapolate this sentance into two more or less identical possibilities – ie, either the NZ Herald or New Force were lying when they talked about ZAP (and their front group TRIM)'s ties to New Force.
As mentioned numerous times in comments on both blogs, Paul Spoonley (a sociologist at Massey University) published a book called The Politics of Nostalgia on fascism/racism in Aotearoa/New Zealand. This book talks at length about ZAP and it's ties to the fascist extreme right in Christchurch (where ZAP was founded). Combine that with the NZ Herald article, and I think you can clearly see that ZAP and New Force had links of some sort.
Trev then goes on, trying to find more excuses – first, maybe New Force, as a pseudo political party, recieved a letter from TRIM or maybe it was even personal correspondance from a member of ZAP/TRIM. These explanations are simply too stupid to even bother refuting – even fascists know the difference between membership/support and a personal letter or lobbying propaganda.
Next, Trevor attempts to compare ZAP to the Catholic Church (talk about ego!) and states that just as 1 or 2 rogue Catholics can't be taken to represent the Church, neither can 1 or 2 rogue fascists be taken to represent ZAP.
A commenter on this blog, Scott, put it well when he stated
Anyone who reads Spoonely’s account of the far right scene in Chch in the 70s and 80s and the rise of ZAP and its front group TRIM can see that the organisations were completely centralised, based as they were on the authority of the bizarre John Dahlhorf, who was known to his disciples as John Ultimate. Spoonely quotes several primary documents, including a letter from Ultimate to his folowers, which make his absolute authority clear (in the letter he talks of reading group members’ minds in his dreams).
The notion that a significant number of members of a tiny, close-knit, centralised froup like ZAP were involved in New Force/the NWP without the say-so of Ultimate is not credible.
And yet you hide here and continue to make up more badly researched allegations about the man. If name calling is the best you can do, then I guess that is why none of these “facts” will never see the light of day in the MSM. Good luck in your Nazi hunting!
Clint – If you want me to spend a little more time on this, I’d be more than happy to go to the library and scan in any of the dozens of articles (mostly from the Christchurch Press) detailing the complete and utter joke that is the cult ZAP. I’m also happy to start talking about the World Anti Communist League, a very dodgy group that Trevor Loudon was the New Zealand representative for….
I have a feeling Trev might not want that sort of stuff in the public domain…
Oh well Trev will never resign, not that it really matter as Act won’t make it through the next election. God knows how they made it through the last one!!!
When Act does fall and Trev looses his great power, all us reds can come out from under the bed and bring Stalin, Mao and Lenin back to life to enslave the world!!!!! (insert evil laugh)
It’s been so long since I took the time to educate Libertarianz about politics and economics that I totally forgot what a political kindergarten it is. Just where is Asher “hiding” Clint, you mean on the internet? Where anyone in the world can see what he’s written? You mean on Indymedia? A public forum where anyone can post and comment on news? You mean behind a computer screen? Like where you’re hiding making that comment?
I remember you having more clues when you were the Prez of Preb’s Rebs. You been drinking lead paint or something?
Love and hugs
Strypes
truely tiresome trev has a page on wikipedia, that currently is very one-sided in his favour. It needs some objective neutral editors to add all the other stuff about him. Add this stuff in scuprulously neutral point of view language with references of course.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Loudon
No
Nutter? What gives you the right to use such a derogatory term. Do you have no respect for the sufferers of mental illness and their friends, family whanau?
I don’t care what you let your wingnuts do down there but at least have the decency to keep your trash at home.
You ought to see some of the @#$ he posts in the United States, and it is pretty well known who he is no matter what lie he tells, he is enough of a fool to boast of his handiwork in the Shire. And his picture kinda gives him away.
I would think your govenment would do something about this ‘ambasssador’ of yours, Trevor Loudon., at least for the sake of your nations reputation.
There has been speculation online here in the US he posts ti the United States as part of his rehabilitative therapy from the nut barn in Christchurch.
Chris, United States
PS. Don’t beleive me? Log into some of our polical discussion forums and see who posts what from Christchurch. This creature must spend most of his days online talking his trash.
Chris, I’d completely forgotten about TL until I read a post made by you, I suspect, on Lawyers, Guns and Money which led me here.
How do you propose the rest of New Zealand keeps him off the WWW seeing as the first W stands for “world” and all that? I’m sure I’ve posted in America too. In fact I am right now aren’t I seeing as wordpress is registered in California.
I’ve seen some nutjob posts on the NZ Herald from Americans. Imagine that, Americans being able to find an NZ newspaper online and post to it. The cheek! Would you please round them up and keep them off there. Thanks! :-D
Having said all that, TL is indeed a nutter.
Rebecca:
When a political party vice chairman in the United States (Either Republican or Democrat) writes such nonsense and posts as Trevor Loudon does, in your newspapers, you have grounds for complaint.
Let alone spends his time openly trying to interfere with your elections.
He has even claimed he scoped out how to poison Clinton at a diplomatic function, which we reported to our Secret Service, on one board.
He is a bit past some random United States citizen sending a letter you don’t like to the editor of the New Zealand Herald.
If Hillary Clinton or Steele go off their roackers and send a letter to the editor down there about what fascist morons New Zealanders are for electing a criminal band of ex-nazis like Keys and company or some other similar trash, it is a bit different. They are representing the United States.
ACT is part of your coalition government formed during your last election. And Loudon is an officer in that party.
So yes, it is a bit different. Here he would publicly be tossed from his party, and possibly subject to criminal prosecution for using a governmental position for such conduct.
Chris.
Chris – FYI, Trev isn’t an office holder in ACT anymore. Word is even they thought he was too nutty.
Also, its Key, not Keys, and while he’s a prick with terrible politics, calling him an ex-nazi is ridiculous and offensive, especially considering his Jewish heritage.
“Chris – FYI, Trev isn’t an office holder in ACT anymore. Word is even they thought he was too nutty.
Also, its Key, not Keys, and while he’s a prick with terrible politics, calling him an ex-nazi is ridiculous and offensive, especially considering his Jewish heritage.” -Asher
Really, it bothers you does it? Funny when we read that gross distortions and outright falsehoods from your spokesman Trevor, you think we like it, here?
Especially coming from a part of your government?
Eh? How is Trevor “my spokesman”? He’s a fucking nutcase with politics totally opposed to everything I stand for. Have you even read the blog post you’re replying to?
Dunno, but was googling the man to try and find the background on him. If he is a nutter as you say, we certainly get a lot of New Zealanders with similar politics posting on our political forums in the United States.
At any rate the man is feted as a hero among the GOP here and appears on their talk shows and such as a important New Zealand reporter and a National Party functionary. I did not know New Zealand had as many racists and white supremeicists as it does until Trevor and his peers brought it to my and everyone else’s attention, and if he is an example of the ruling party in New Zealand, I would think he is a more representative of the place then is claimed.
Tonight him and several of your other citizens are busy telling us how Obama is responsible for destroying your economy and how his immigration reform which will allow brown heathen wetbacks to overrun the United States and bring their communist rule is also destroying the planet and New Zealand by postponing the cap and trade bill which he alleges is part of the black plot to destroy your island.
Don’t you New Zealanders and your government have anything else to do but spread white supremicist trash worldwide?
At any rate, he is appearing as New Zealand’s spokesman to the United States. His rantings are appearing across the country, and other New Zealanders with similar sentiments are getting the message out.
A National Party functionary? He’s not even a member of the National Party. He was the Vice President of the ACT Party (a junior coalition partner) but got the boot from that position because he was too nutty. Not sure if he’s still a party member.
Interesting.
Is it against the law in New Zealand to impersonate or falsely claim to be one of your Crown employees or a member of the New Zealand Parliamentary staff?
The other night he was claiming to be a member of the Tory government charged with writing a military review as to the future plans for your MOD for your New Zealand government for instance.
Anyway, if he is not a spokesman for or affiliated with your government you probably ought to publicly start making that far more clear.
“The other night he was claiming to be a member of the Tory government charged with writing a military review as to the future plans for your MOD for your New Zealand government for instance.”
Have you got a source for that? Could be amusing.
“you probably ought to publicly start making that far more clear”
Me, a random blogger? Why the fuck should it be my responsibility?
Asher Says: Me, a random blogger? Why the fuck should it be my responsibility?
Actually considering what you blog about, I would be extremely interested in what Trevor is now doing. He is playing to the Tory extreme in the United States. As a world class expert on various non-white communist/islamofasicst/green/anrcochist/socialist/etc. schemes to bring down white Anglo-Saxon Tory civilization.
A casual Google will show you he advises Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, is on every sort of rightwing talk radio and so on in the US, functions as an adviser for our most fascist and Tory organized political elements elements.
You might carefully examine the United States history where other such creatures got the US involved in their homeland’s affairs. All Latin America is a good case study, and even Iraq had such toadies providing WMD intelligence and other things.
He spends a lot of time discussing how various groups are doing this and that in New Zealand, when he isn’t involved in his other affairs with what his ‘research’ shows is going on elsewhere.
So would you want him advising a Palinesque United States administration on how to deal with New Zealand, especially if a government it did not like was voted into power?
And yes I have sources, though you would have to create accounts and log into US political forums.
However there are plenty of open source interviews with him, assuming you want to listen to conservative christian talk radio, or read the various things he says in interviews and postings on our republican websites.
So yes, I see who you might want to get a bit motivated and stay on top of things, before the CIA is funding your local fascists who certainly won’t and don’t like you, while they destabilize your government with the intent of placing themselves in charge.
You don’t think he is selflessly spending his time working on public opinion and attempting to shape politics in the United States because he likes Americans do you?
Dear, whoever,
All this argument over a man you have never met. But only captured a glimpse of his true nature. Yes, some of his views come across vastly different from yours. Yes some of what he does is conducted in a manner just touching the verge of vendetta and vigilante – however you must realize, that comparing him to yourself is extraordinarily narrow minded, and shows the vast level of your tenacious, dogmatic scale of your conservative opinionated self.
I have worked along side (literally) of this utter champion of liberty and justice, and have been truly amazed at his vast knowledge. It was my immense privilege to be a part of the work he is involved in, and increased my thinking ability tenfold. – His level of understanding is one of which, that to posses a firm grasp upon, would make you ecstatic.
Thank you for your time. And I would hope you refrain from the abuse you clearly enjoy hurling.
Liberal Liberty.
Yep, believing (like Trevor) that the centre of the universe is a suburban Christchurch street is definitely an example “vast knowledge” and a high “level of understanding”. Oh wait, it’s completely idiotic – my mistake.
Now, kindly fuck off.
Asher : I’m seriously concerned that Trev has taken over the Internet -you can’t enter his name in a search engine and come up with even one negative,critical or descenting comment – it’s really creepy !
Yes! Finally someone writes about painting on glass.
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