As of today Larvatus Prodeo will once again cease publishing.
Long-time readers will know that the blog started out on March 17, 2005 and then ceased publishing from April 10, 2012 after a seven year run. We were conjured into existence again from March 10, 2013 to monitor the run up to the September election, decided to stay on for a bit to see how it all worked out with the new government and then kept going from there.
As I write the blog statistics say that there have been 7,199 posts and over 385,000 approved comments, that’s 53 comments per post. Commenters have always been a large and welcome part of the LP community.
This year there has clearly been some drift: a narrowing in the number of posters and in the number and variety of commenters. From October 9 Mark succumbed to the exigencies of moving out of his long-term digs at New Farm while carrying an above normal academic teaching load. Since then we’ve had one post from him – on his book sale. Other than that from October 9 to Christmas we had the regulars from the Cat Herding Cabal, one post from Robert Merkel, one from Paul Norton and 44 from me. It wasn’t the way the blog was meant to be.
For some time now I’ve wanted to take a three-month break from blogging to attend to some other matters. We looked at the options and finally on December 29 Mark and I came to the conclusion that we should let it go. Mark is in Sydney at the moment doing a spot of house-sitting without full internet access, so we agreed that I would do the last post.
Back in April 2012 in signing off Mark waxed analytical about the changed nature of blogging in the context of the social media and the MSM generally. My expectations of quality blogging were fairly simple. I used to find, quite regularly at LP, that after reading a post and the comments thread I was sufficiently informed and aware of enough diverse points of view to form a settled view of my own on any given matter. This was a great advantage of blogging over the one-hit, one-way pieces you get, in the main, from the MSM, which often are incomplete, contain inaccuracies and raise more questions than they resolve.
Now on the internet the edges are somewhat blurred between what constitutes a blog and what doesn’t. Mark back then made reference to other sources as follows:
If you’re looking for other places for independent Australian political commentary, you can’t go past John Quiggin and Club Troppo (where my own blogging trajectory began) and Crikey and New Matilda. And of course, there’s the excellent Hoyden About Town.
Three of those are blogs, two are not, but none of them MSM. With the MSM and other platforms carrying both advertising and a comments facility, and with the MSM carrying ‘blogs’, classification can be confusing. Nevertheless the continued existence of Quiggin, Troppo and Hoyden amongst others leads me to believe that there is still a place for traditional blogging.
So as to the future, who knows? It’s conceivable that LP will rise again to report on the political chicanery that I fear will be our lot. To be fair, though, I think perhaps our trajectory reached its zenith early in 2011 or perhaps a little earlier. Indeed on January 12, 2011 on a single day, when Mark was live-blogging the Brisbane flood, we had 28,484 “views”. So while a further resurrection is possible I think it unlikely. LP in full flight was one of a kind and is probably better left that way.
Two other historical facts are relevant to round out the picture. Firstly, we spent some time at Larvatus Prodeo in exile when the main blog was borked. I always suspected we were sabotaged by the forces of evil as it seemed to happen just before elections.
Secondly, I think there is still a hole a few months wide in the 2008 archive. I did a series on sea level rise back then that wasn’t available last time I looked. My bookmarks for the Henson posts from May-June 2008 failed.
There is a third, I believe the famous ‘chics and guns’ post is no longer available, more is the pity.
All these things may exist, if you have the patience to search the National Library archives.
As for myself, I do not intend just yet to go gentle into that good night. I’m hoping to return around April with a blog focussed on climate, but also including sundry other stuff. Should you so desire, I reckon if you Google ‘climate plus brian’ you’ll find me if I’m there.
Meanwhile thanks all around for the contributions and the memories.
There’s plenty to reminisce about. Did we ever break the record of comments on Is Missy Higgins lesbian? Just now I’ve been reminded that most of the comments are doubled up on many old posts, which would distort the whole blog stats.
Time to exit stage left!
Thanks for all your hard work this year and all the other years, Brian! It’s definitely time for you to take a well-deserved rest.
I’ve set the commenting period to expire on all current posts 14 days after publication, so that’s when the final curtain will fully fall.
Yes, thank you for all your work and the very informative posts. I’ll miss you!
Thanks for all your hard work getting LP going again. And all the wonderful posts.
So off into the dark night we go once again.
Thanks folks. I don’t feel burnt out, but I would have been if I’d kept going. Also the balance in my life just wasn’t right.
Thanks tt for all the work you did backstage, as it were, which was considerable, and in the front of the house on moderation, directing traffic etc.
Brian you, Mark & LP will be missed. Happy New year and fair winds.
To all LP’ers, HNY, thanks for your comments and posts generally.
Thank you Brian this was my introduction to a regular blog and a delightful one it was. And thank you to the LP community.
I love twitter madly but it is quite different to a blog. Au revoir. Judith
My very best wishes are extended to all who post here. Thank you especially Brian for your efforts in creating a place where those amongst us seeking a better world can give vent to our passions. I wish you and Mark and the many others who made this blog possible the very best of happenstance.
More generally …
To those who bring misanthropy, ignorance or cant to this place, I wish greater insight. May you reflect more carefully than you apparently have on what you share with the rest of humanity and on the duties you offer them and they you. Consider carefully what you may have that does not prejudice a claim by another that is just. Embrace the possibility that lies in self-discovery and in what others can teach you about the world that currently lies hidden.
I don’t promise that this will bring you peace. Life offers no such guarantees, IMO. Indeed, you may come to regret the time you’ve squandered hurting others. Yet you may console yourself with the thought that you may well be even better placed than am I in assisting others from the dead end you’ve been on and onto a path where your fellow travellers really do know how to play nicely with others.
To those who share my passion for social justice and the intellectual and ethical rigour that predisposes it, my respect and solidarity is offered. Together and in concert with others on the same journey, we will bring nearer a world in which everyone can hope for authentic community, bona fide purpose and a clear insight into one’s own possibility and the path to it immanent in equitable collaboration. You may not have agreed with all I said, but if your objections were moved by such sentiment then I salute you for your courage and integrity. It is not an easy path that you and I have chosen, and we know that death, malice or perhaps malfeasance by the privileged may deny us the end we seek but we can take no other. Your fellowship strengthens my resolve and my hope.
Let us respect this day and each new one that dawns.
Thanks for your work. I didn’t often have anything to contribute, but always valued the perspectives presented here. Go well!
Brian:
Yes, we broke the record with the aid of daggett.
Thanks for all your work Brian and everybody else involved.
Thanks Brian.
See youse.
And so another [ableist comment redacted ~ Mod] blog disappears up it’s own fundiment…
Goodbye, all.
Good luck in your futures.
Have to agree with anotherbryanfromperth. This place used to be at least interesting but the vr th tp clmt crp nd th rlntlss shrll fmst blterngs kld t fr m. [disemvowelled ~ Mod]
Thanks Brian I think what you have done here has been great. The posts are always informative and the comments interesting. I hope to see your climate blog in future.
All the best, Brian. Will miss your excellent communication of the climate science.
Thanks Brian, Mark and the Cat Herding Cabal. It has been fun.
Yes, it has been fun and I shall miss LP especially Brian, your science digests, which made it easy for me to stay abreast.
On a happy note I just found that <a href="http://www.dw.de/dolphins-gain-unprecedented-protection-in-india/a-16834519" India has legally recognized the rights of dolphins as 'non-human persons'.
Best wishes to all.
Oops
Thanks Brian, Mark, Cat Herders, bloggers and posters.
Once again, I’ll miss you all….
Before we go our separate ways, I’d like to mention GregM’s comment #94 on Saturday Salon, 14th Dec. 2013.
I nominate that comment for a special Dean Swift Award for its craftsmanship, subtlety, brevity and wit.
Just as long lost commentor…huggy bunny emerges from the fog – much to your delight Brian – you’ve had to pull the pin. Hope you both return with a new climate clippings, god knows we need it!
Thank you to everyone involved for putting up the prompts and hosting the forum, and to the community for your voices.
Thank you very much to everyone who contributed over the years. And a true pleasure, Brian, to make your acquaintance in real life.
What I think is unique about LP – at least in my limited experience of the web – is the intelligence of the comments. I have not seen any other blog (and I have looked at those recommended) where you get such a sense of people having extended conversations in which they try to make sense of the world ( sorry about repetition, can’t think how else to say that).
Maybe Crooked Timber, which is really high level – but not directly relevant to australia usually, and I still don’t think it has that sense of people really engaging with their world and trying to make sense of it.
John Quiggin is good but it is just too inherently sexist – LP has problems with sexism, but they can be debated, even if someone like me occasionally loses her temper – but there they seem inherent – it seems fruitless to debate them. Also at times non-economists seem on the outer there.
Feminist blogs on the other hand seem to have a bit of a cheer squad problem – if you try to debate or put nuanced views you may get a put down. I don’t agree with Helen Razor about much, but she said something about Australian feminism not dealing well with nuance, and I think there is some truth in that.
Anyway all credit to LP for the standard of conversation, and thank you to posters and moderators for creating the site where this could happen.
Thanks for all the hard work in bringing the big purple blog back to life. I think these ventures all have their shelf life and it’s not a bad thing to shut up shop.
fare thee well, and ghod speed.
I wish I had had more opportunity to contribute during LP’s second coming.
I do miss the place but lack of time and the challenges of ensuring that the plumbers of the information supersewer know what they are doing has prevented me from having the time to reflect and write.
See you all somewhere on the Internets.
thanks all, and most especially Brian. I will look out for your internet presence in the hopefully not too distant future.
Thanks to everyone at LP, especially Brian and Tigtog. I remember opining in my opinionated way somewhere that if Mark didn’t want to keep LP going as a political blog, it would be excellent if Brian rejigged it as a vehicle for his climate writing. So the fact that Brian is going to continue this under a new blog banner is indeed welcome.
Goodbye to all my friends and adversaries at LP over the years, I’m sure I’ll see you in other venues online!
Thanks to Mark, Brian and Tigtog (among others) both for recent and for less recent efforts to maintain a high standard of conversation. Reactionary trolls who can’t spell or punctuate will always sneak in somewhere, as this thread demonstrates, but it’s all part of the fun. Since I discovered LP in 2005 I have been immeasurably enriched by the conversations, the information and the perspectives. Brian, good luck with the new venture!
Thankyou everybody for some much needed intelligent interaction (obviously not you @12 & @14).
Looking forward to Brian’s blog.
Brian: Thanks for introducing me to LP and allowing me to run the occasional guest post. What really made LP stand out for me was the back and forth conversations. Will miss them while waiting for your next enterprise.
Please ensure you do Brian!
Thanks for the encouragement!
Paul N @ 9, I can’t believe daggett was so long ago – Sept 2009!
Mark and Brian:
Thanks a lot for your patience and for all the informative discussions and leads – very hard work for you and very much appreciated by me.
Intrigued by your Silesian heritage; who knows but we may meet face-to-face one day and perhaps discuss it over a glass of Laphroaig.
tigtog and the Cat Herding Cabal;
Good cheer and good fortune to you.
Paul Burns:
Your reading certainly keeps you strong: that’s the spirit!
Fran Barlow:
Go on, be a devil; teach the kids what they need to know in life and to blazes with the curriculum
faustusnotes:
Thanks for your glimpses from Nippon. My favourite places: the statue pointing to the sky and overlooking Epicentre at Nagasaki, Yokkaichi (huh??), Yasakune jinja (huh?? again).
Terangeree:
Best wishes for your family; may you all enjoy a bright and happy future.
Everyone:
Thanks for all your comments – and especially to those who were so wrong about some aspects of me; it gave a few onlookers who know me personally some real laughs.
The Future? I do hope Larvatus Prodeo does spring back to life before too long – Heaven knows, Australia does need a vigorous forum in an age when the mainstream media has become uninformative, uncurious, uninspiring, unreliable, uniform and cowardly.
Cheers! And thanks a lot!
Henry2 have a look at Climate Citizen re ship in Antarctic ice.
I have nothing to add.
GB most Germans left Silesia post WW2. Also my great grandmother on my father’s side was ethnically Polish from Posen, though apparently Lutheran. So I’m one eighth Slav as far as I know, but as much Polish as Silesian.
I don’t like to be identified as a Prussian because of the demonisation of Prussians via the Nazis, where in fact the Prussians were under-represented. Also Prussia was a collection of 10 very different provinces. BTW Marx was a Prussian.
I’ll answer to Guluguba German.
Thanks Brian. Most people know nothing about Prussia and the Prussians – except from strident racist propaganda against Prussians. D H Lawrence, Hollywood and all the other haters have a lot to answer for.
It was impossible to be Prussian without having at least one Polish, Wendish (Sorbian), Hugenot French, Dutch or Jewish ancestor.
Prussia used to be a dirt-poor duchy then kingdom – but it was a place of hope and asylum for those suffering religious persecution – provided they obeyed the King’s laws.
It was the last place in the former German Reich to keep itself free from Nazi domination – and if Prussia had gained its independence again after the Versailles Treaty, the Nazis would never have gained a toehold there.
Posen (Poznan) was slap bang in the old Wielkapolska (Great Poland) so a heck of a lot of migrants to Australia from there were Polish by ethnicity but German by nationality. Heck, it was Polish labour that built the industrial might of the German Empire – just as it was the Scots, Welsh and Irish who did so much to build the British Empire.
And don’t forget that the army of newly re-independent Poland had a Prussian Brigade on its order-of-battle and many soldiers from that formation died fighting the Nazi invaders.
One day, the real story of Prussia will be well-known …. one day ….
Many thanks Brian and the rest of the crew. Sorry to see you go (again).
It’s a real pity LP won’t be around for the 2014 WA Senate election. It could be interesting…
Ah, well. Au revoir.
Also Brian, looking forward to your climate blog.
Graham Bell
Maybe the time for another view of Prussia has arrived. Angela Merkel’s father, a highly admirable man, who took his infant daughter from her birthplace of Hamburg lived and worked as a pastor in the officially atheist German Democratic Republic, was born in Berlin. And he had Polish ancestry. Merkel grew up and still lives in Berlin, leaving only to go to university in Leipzig and work in Bonn during her early parliamentary career.
The first and only Prime Minister of a democratic GDR, Lothar de Maizière, was of Hugenot ancestry as is the current Interior Minister of Germany, Thomas de Maizière. Merkel was an aide of the first and the latter was is her one-time chief of staff.
In fictional terms, Philip Kerr’s detective Bernie Gunther works for crusty Prussian judges who examine war crimes, ignoring the Nazi regime.
I’m sorry to see LP go again, I’ve really enjoyed it both times since discovering it in about 2006 and was hoping it would help keep us all sane through the Abbott Interregnum. Ah, well, you can’t have everything.
Thanks to you all for keeping it running this long.
Brian, I really look forward to your new climate-related blog – I hope you do get it going, as your Climate Clippings have always been a treasure trove.
jungney 18 @ 19, awesome link thanks. I hope it paves the way for apes and whales.
GB, I have Prussian ancestors who settled in the mid north of SA, Lutherans who were escaping persecution. Your post has poked me into taking more interest in my ancestors. All the best to you, jungney and Brian.
To echo Val @24, this site has had a wonderful range of expertise and ideas.
I don’t know anywhere else I’d find such knowledge of literature, history, engineering, psychology, art, and politics.
I’d rank LP up there with ABC Radio National (listening to some program, thinking “who else in Australia would produce this?” in a positive way)
All the best and cheerio!
Fare thee well, LP.
And so this place is fading into the mist, once more?
Well, now the party’s over, let me thank you Brian and Viv and Mark for this latest incarnation of LP. We know all that you did and we are grateful.
Sobs.
(Thunderbolt)
GregM, spare me a minute.
You see, I’ve seen things you could only dream of and in all these years, at an average rate of 1.5 invitations per month, I have offered to bite you and no one else, only you, so you could see them too, and the oh so mortal scaredy arse hide of you, pearl clutcher, yes you, nothing, no response no grateful acceptance nada niente. I offered you outfits in real leather and promised I would bleach your hair myself. But no. You hesitated, concerned yourself with too many legal statutes, and now here we all are, waaay to late in the crepuscular hour and the season of the witch passes. And all those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain. Yes, just like that, don’t argue with me, just like Rutger says, no different and no less melancholic, because I say so.
Well. Just as well it’s the vampire in me that is interested in you and that bids me wait for your invitation and not the witch who would have electrocuted your arse after the first silent refusal, mortal, don’t you forget that.
(Sobs. Whips out the Book of Shadows, looks around for Christopher Pyne to turn into a toad but realises there would be no change whatsoever, puts Book away).
Oh. And a particular goodbye to you, Paul Burns. Look after yourself, keep well, and keep that blog going, I shall fly in and check it out.
(Thunderbolt, explosion x 2 and exeunt with familiars.)
Hi, Casey./GB in particular.
Thanks for your well wishes.
Blog is a bit dead at the moment, haven’t been writing for a while. Not well enough these days.
All the best to you both.
And to everyone else.
SG @ 42:
My ancestors arrived in the 1840s. My grandfather farmed near Kapunda. Came to grief in the millennium drought. The early ones (1838) were definitely escaping religious persecution. Later there were also other reasons – political, social, economic, good reports from the first wave, and Germans were actively sought by the colonial authorities because of their thrift and hard work – religious persecution perhaps not so much, as the new king had relented over the Prussian Union Church. It had been embarrassing. Christopher Clark says:
Thanks for the link, Casey. I’ve always loved that song.
Just wanted to add to my comment @ 24, that I didn’t mean to sound disparaging of feminist blogs in Australia – blogs like The Hoopla, Hoyden about Town and BlueMilk are all very good and interesting. It’s just that you don’t seem to get the extended conversations you do here.
I’ve expressed on my own blog my concerns about the “policing” of Australian feminism, and I won’t go on about it again, except I guess that may discourage the expression of divergent views. I don’t mean divergent views of the ‘feminists are all man haters/shrill/wrong/boring” type, which of course gets short shrift, but just views which maybe challenge a particular position, and so forth. But I don’t think that’s the whole reason. There’s a quality of the discussion on LP that not many blogs seem to have, whether feminist or non- feminist. I just care more about the feminist ones because they’re important, especially given mainstream media is so male dominated, as Wendy Bacon’s research has shown.
Anyway I’m in danger of starting a stoush (not much use now
) and should continue these thoughts on my own blog. But I really admire what LP has done and hope maybe some of the bloggers and moderators here might share their thoughts on how it’s been achieved, before the final countdown
Sorry about that link, I know it’s a bit of an ear worm (even if you don’t click it you can probably guess it) – but it was just, you know, appropriate.
Oh dammit the link didn’t work properly again – I think I’ve only once been able to do that sort of link properly on LP, and it’s too late to learn now!
Anyway, if anyone should want to, you can google the final countdown on you tube! Don’t want to? Ok
Best wishes to all at LP, including (even especially) those I’ve stoushed with.
Thanks Brian. My great grandfather and grandfather farmed at Robertstown pretty much on or just inside Goyders line.
My grandfather lost his farm after the 1930′s drought. They survived most of it by cutting wood from forested areas of the farm to sell.
Dad said they never went hungry though. They grew all their own vegies and fruit which was pickled or otherwise preserved. They raised and killed all their own meat which was cured in the typical German ways.
Oh! I’ll miss it here. LP was a place where people made an effort, even the trolls. Thank you for that, and special thanks to Casey and Fran Barlow. They are both equipped with a rhetorical hatpin to deflate a pompous or poorly drafted argument in such entertaining styles. The moderators deserve a special mention, and of course thanks to all the posters and the tech support. I look forward to reading you LPers out there in another place.
Ah drsusancalvin there’s nothing like a clever woman delivering a takedown in full flight, especially if she’s a witch – or a schoolmarm. But I guess my point is not to be too savage with those who, in the greater scheme of things, are on the same side as you.
But anyway fare thee well a while, as Robbie Burns would say. I’m in love with this song at present, for reasons which have nothing to do with this discussion, but any excuse – so here it is, no tries at clever links – http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QvKYBhITKdI
Re Casey @45
Standard disclaimer: some of my best fiends are witches.
Casey, it seems you’ve oopsed in an unusual direction. Your lachrymose outpourings deserve the pity of all good persons and true, but don’t you see you are just
* Blaming The Non-Victim*
?
… GregM being the most stalwart non-victim in the blog ….
faustusnotes:
Sorry about my spelling mistake @ 35; should have been ‘Yasukuni Jinja’ [sei/yasui+koku/kuni+shin/jin+sha/sha(ja)]; my kanji is better than my romaji. Anyway, it is indeed a tranquil place and I do like it – despite the hatred many non-Japanese have for it. Good luck in whatever you are doing.
The REAL David Irving:
Thanks for your comments – and thanks to my former next-door neighbours in ’66~’67; we could never have got so much of our work done without the expertise of Topo Survey to help us.
Salient Green:
Well, at least you seem to take the concept of stewardship seriously. Thanks for your comments to everyone.
drsusancalvin:
Thanks for your interesting comments …. and no, I won’t put any smiley faces at the end of this paragraph, promise.
Val:
We shall meet again – and possibly clash swords – but please do not ever lose your drive and vigour
Paul Burns:
You may have some physical restrictions but there’s nothing wrong with your mind, mate
Tim Macknay:
Yeah. I’m looking forward to the climate blog too – and after this summer, it might be chock-a-block full of recanting climate change deniers too. See you whenever it does get up and running (no great rush though: let them baste for a while longer; it will increase their zeal).
Jungney:
Glad to see you refuse to be locked into remaining a victim. Good on you. “Whatever doesn’t kill me makes me stronger” or something like that. Cheers.
Thanks for your efforts – the willingness to revive the blog so people had a forum in a time of need was jolly decent… thoughtful analysis of many matters political was appreciated. I’m afraid I gave up commenting during the period when people still got really hot under the collar about Rudd/Gillard… those exchanges became dispiriting, however I continued to read the blog from time to time – overall I can say there were moments when LP was a sanity saver in times of political insanity, and as for launching a climate blog, never was it needed more – look forward to it. And may I also say, save the reef, lock the gates, don’t let the flat earthers have the last word, keep justice and compassion alive, and never give up.
And if anyone gets really desperate for somewhere to express, there are many ways and means, e.g…..
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/brisbane-city/miscellaneous-goods/government-respect-of-independent-judiciary-separation-of-powers/1034227734
Best wishes for the new year to all.
The Cat Herding Cabal wishes to remind a few folks that some stuff still belongs on the Overflow thread rather than cluttering up other threads. Comments which the Cabal views as containing excessive derail potential will be unapproved/redacted/deleted as seems best.
Please just stick to the farewells.
Sorry tigtog, will just conclude by saying Shingle @ 57 that your comments raised a lot of questions for me about how we imagine gender in a sustainable world. Rather than going to Overflow though I think I will continue those thoughts on my own blog, as this one is after all closing down. If interested, feel free to join me there. Bye.
Fair enough tigtog. My comment on PRUSSIA is @ 59 on the Overflow Thread.
I am very sorry to hear this. Ever since I first discovered LP back during the Rudd , I have considered it to be a great site to visit both to be informed and as a way of communicating with people who largely share similar political views to mine. It was great to have a blog that ignored whatever narrative the MSM was pushing and sought to focus on the bigger picture with more nuanced analysis. Even though I didn’t post here as much as I would have liked and sometimes passionately disagreed with some of the posts and the posters here, I was always grateful for this site. When it closed down for the first time, it felt like tremendous loss. It will feel the same way again this time round
Nevertheless, I do not fault the decision of the administration here at LP for the decision they have made. The amount of intellectual contribution and administration that goes into running this site is very impressive and I am under no illusion as to the extent of time, effort, commitment and personal dedication that each of the contributors and administrators of this site have put in throughout the years. I have noticed Mark has been an infrequent poster here and I know that all the other contributors and admin have lives, careers and other personal, professional and political interests to pursue. And I have also noticed how valiantly Brian and the other contributors have worked to keep this site going over the past few months and this has been greatly valued and appreciated on my part.
I can well understand and greatly respect the reasons why the administrators of this site have made the decision they have and I wish them nothing but the best for their future plans and endeavours.
Farewell, LP, thanks for being such a great source of information and intellectual discussion throughout both the past year and in its previous incarnation. And thanks to all the contributors, admin and posters who have made it thus.
Pav’sCat @30:
Absolutely! Fare thee well.
Ambigulous @ 43:
Well said; heartily agree! First, Lervatus Prodeo is going. Then, Merde-och will be rewarded for his meddling with the disembowelment of “Menzies’ Mouthpiece”(a.k.a. ABC RN). However, progressives, lefties, radicals, innovators, questioners and the compassionate will not be silenced. Thanks for all your comments, Ambigulous.
Katz @ 11: Thanks for your wisdom …. hope you do reappear on Brian’s climate blog.
Sad to see it go again. Diversity of views is what the blogosphere is built on. Hopefuly the principals will keep their hands in elsewhere.
John D: Have your blog on my favourites so we shall meet again. Thanks for your helpful comments.
Moz of Yarramulla, Mr Denmore, Helen, Mahaut1329, Tyro Rex, j-p-z [I know you are lurking somewhere
], Sceptic, Liz and of course Ootz:
Thanks too for your comments.
Gentlefolk:
A few years ago, when the internet outran the speed of my old computer and I was “off the air”, I lost track of some of the regulars here – before LP closes right down, can anyone please tell me what happened to Kim and to Derider Derrida?
Goodnight all,
Maybe tomorrow.
Graham Bell.
Thank you for all your comments. I particularly enjoyed the series on Prussia. This highlights the value of LP – it is possible to participate in conversations very rarely available in the physical world.
Paul Burns
I really appreciated your discussion of books. And what books! I would love to have you in my book club. Look after your health.
Mahaut1329,
I’m still reading MacMillan, and I have Lesley Hazelton’s After the Prophet. The Epic Story of the Shia-Sunni Split waiting for me, as well as Hannah Grieg’s The Beau Monde (She’s a new, young historian of the Georgian Era and this, her debut book, got rave reviews. The ones I read anyweay.) Year Zero:1945 is in the mail.
Brian @ 36 & 47 and Mahaut1329 @ 66:
Shall put another comment about things Prussian on the Overflow Thread before it vanishes too.
Confound you Paul Burns, your literary interests spurred me into buying a remaindered copy of Andrew Mango’s The Turks Today – shan’t get time to read it until mid-year though. Cheers.
Mahaut1329 @ 66 again:
My oath! I am surrounded by climate change deniers, corporate welfare recipients, those fearful of innovation, cargo-cultists who are going to become fabulously wealthy(??) as the value of the AUD plummets …. need I say more? LP has been a lush green island of sanity and information for me.
Mark and Kim thanks for the effort to get the blogball rolling.
Fyodor, Liam Weathergirl, Kate, LeftyElitist,Nabakov,Pavlovs Cat, The Devil Drink, Pterosaur,BilB, Gandhi, Ken ( sorry forget the surname- left in a huff a few times), Melaleuca,Casey, Fran Barlow, Tigtog, Mr Denmore,Possum, Paul Burns,Uteman,Paul Norton, Jinmaro,Robert Merkel, Edward Mariyarni- Squires( mostly I remember him form Antony Loewenstein’s blog ),Ambigulous, wilful,Zoot( my winner for the pithy sentence award),
Leniad, Ken Parish, Don Arthur,Roger Jones, Brian, Fine, Geoff Honour, Tim Dunlop, FDB, Jason Soon and finally Graham Bird- thanks.
Many many others also of course – all helped to open the mind ,expand the horizon and challenge the complacency .
Here’s hoping for a resurrection leading up the next election!
Thanks all for the thoughtful and insightful experience that makes up the the big purple. Looking forward to your blog, Brian.
Stay happy and healthy.
Thanks Brian to and to all involved with the latest LP.
The posts have been very good.
And the comments are not only worth reading, but also rewarding. A reflection of the posts’ quality and moderators.
Will be missed
IMHO, here’s a really good literature/books blog, for those of you who don’t know it. (a sort of parting gift, good to follow.)
http://interestingliterature.com/2014/01/06/guest-blog-unreliable-narrators-in-literature/
Paul Burns. I have been submerged in theoretical stuff for days and days. But have started reading ‘Troublesome Young Men’ by Lynne Olson. This book is about the anti-appeasers in 1930s in Britain and how they eventually had Chamberlain replaced by Churchill – a close-run outcome. I had thought that it was possible that Chamberlain may not be such a villain of history as he has been painted. I am generally suspicious of myths of that kind. But reading Olson suggests that he deserves all the acrimony heaped upon him.
Mahaut1329,
Sounds intriguing. Have read some interesting stuff on that topic from the Aust. perspective. IIRC Eric Andrews, on both Europe and China – books written in the 70s and 80s. From the British side, The Wilderness Years volume in Gilbert’s Churchill biography, and most intriguingly, Maurice Cowling’s book on Chamberlain at Munich. (Cowling’s philosophy/practice of history has been one of the great influences on my writing of history.) He’s worth checking out in general. He’s written on the 1832 Reform Act, British Labour in the 1920s, and Chamberlain. Also a book of theory.
Paul Burns
Thank you for the reference. I have ordered Impact of Hitler from Abebooks. It deals with the League and the Continent as well so I look forward to reading it.
Thanks to all…this has blog educated and informed some of us who needed such during difficult times. I wish I’d posted more, but the ramblings of a slightly tipsy engineer would not have added one whit of wit to an already excellent discourse…
Seeyalater,
steve h
From Ngapali Beach in Myanmar – so long and thanks for all the fish!
Thanks to all the amazing women here who bravely tried to tackle the “All male perspective all the time” paradigm.
Mahaut1329,
Remember, though, Cowling is a dyed-in-the-wool conservative and anti-(small-l) liberal. (Though I think the article on him in Wikipedia is a bit harsh. Suspect it might be written by both his Conservative and Liberal enemies.) His book The Limits of Political Science I found an excellent template for the interpretation of high politics/political history.
Oops, its too early in the morning, even in NSW. British Liberals. Capital L.
Paul Burns. Thanks for warning about Cowling. I am generally comfortable working with a range of biases. The first person reports of that period are predominantly from a high Tory perspective, so I have had plenty of practice.
In the same spirit as Fran Balow’s farewell @ 7 I offer this:
1. Be brave; braver than you ever imagined possible ( see Tom Petty ‘I Won’t Back Down’
2. Always oppose peacefully. Read Mandela and Ghandi. Remember, if you oppose with force the opposition will boil your bones.
3. Strategically, always the common front.
Farewell.
[personal stuff -- sorry]
The Girl of Enduring Beauty is now three months and two days pregnant, and today’s ultrasound revealed that the likelihood of the bairn being born with Down’s Syndrome has gone down from 1 in 50 to 1 in 5,000 (or so).
The Girl of Everlasting Beauty doesn’t want to know if the bairn will be a boy bairn or a girl bairn until it is a born bairn, so that particular mystery will remain.
It would be nice to catch up with some of the LP commentators one of these days.
Kind regards to all, and I hope you all have pleasant days and joyous nights.
Roy Wilke (“Terangeree”)
Terangeree: from personal experience, downies are angels in disguise but hardly in disguise at all. They soon make themselves apparent. Good luck. I think that the personal stuff is relevant at this time of sadness – the final disappearance of LP, my first check in every day for years now. FWIW: I’m kicking around of fb as myself – Anthony Nolan.
Goodbye again then. Thanks to the admin and bloggers for the place and for all who sailied about in this vessel of frustration and joy. Thanks too to the commentators who i often read and rarely responded too. I missed LP when it closed down the first time and will no doubt miss it again. Good luck and good times to u all.
Gentlefolk:
[I] Terangaree – and Linda too: Hope everything goes well for each of you.
Jungney: Where the heck is Drastic?
[II].. Cannot say goodbye without a special thanks to Andrew Bartlett whose hard-work (especially his parliamentary committee work), his passion, his genuine concern for those less fortunate than ourselves and for his well-considered comments here.
Cripes, he came very close to getting politicians a good name
I do wish him well – even though we did cross swords on some issues – and I look forward to his return to public affairs in whatever way he chooses. Governor of Queensland perhaps?
[III].. Some impressions of Larvatus Prodeo:
Most unexpected topic: Fiddle-backed chasubles.
Most intrusive: Is Missy Higgins lesbian? (that’s her business).
Most enjoyable: “we do not live by politics alone, I hope” every Sunday
Funniest: Accusations that I am racist and sexist. My family, friends …. and enemies too …. know otherwise
Most informative: Climate Clippings (confound you Brian, you’re forcing me to fill up my harddrive) …. with the wisdom of John Davidson and Ootz as well.
Most surprising: Mark’s lead on the history of hydrology and canal building in Germany a couple of years back; that lead forced me to a serious re-evaluation of my views on military and economic history.
[IV] My thanks to all my fellow commentators – and to the journalist Christian Kerr (alias Hilary Bray) who pointed me towards Larvatus Prodeo years ago.
Best wishes to all of you!
In the Upper Hunter, on a shit road to nowhere, surrounded by scrubbed out cow paddocks, old gold mines and logged out forest. The flies, my god man, the flies! Its also something of a state of mind among fifth generation scion families who are all, without exception, scoundrels of the first order. They run the place in their own interests. Its parish pump stuff, so small and so outrageous as to entertain without engaging outrage. Except when it comes to assaults on local forests and waterways and water tables (CSG) in which case local greenies prevail because of our ability to out organize the local real estate agents and cow cockies.
Cheers. Nice to have met you and I thought allegations of racism against you were insidious slurs by left wing righteousness trolls.
The forthcoming bairn will not be a Downie.
Now we’re getting ready for The Girl of Enduring Beauty’s solo journey to Japan on Saturday to see her sick mum.
I follow with Master 11 (who is 12) and the Peach Girl later in the week, thus managing to avoid the horrors of Australia Day for another year.
And then to come home to vote in the Griffith bye-election.
What fun!
The awkward second goodbye!
I wasn’t really around for the 2nd incarnation of LP, but the first was an important medium for me to nut out the big issues in fine company. So thanks all
I sign off as I came in, with full titular address
Lefty Elitist
Keating Towers
Inner Melbourne
PS Bite my Latte.
The awkward second goodbye!
I wasn’t really around for the 2nd incarnation of LP, but the first was an important medium for me to nut out the big issues in fine company. So thanks all
I sign off as I came in, with full titular address
Lefty Elitist
Keating Towers
Inner Melbourne
PS Bite my Latte.
PPS Mods, please tolerate my failure to remember my email, which caused the first two mis-posts
Congratulations to you both, Terangeree. Enjoy your trip, and don’t forget to vote early and often.
Cheers LP. You’ll be missed. Everyone involved in running it has a lot to be proud of.
Thanks and take care.
Same to all the posters I’ve agreed and disagreed with over the years. Whatever else this place did it also generated a real community vibe in the comments section.
Cheers everyone. I’ll probably catch you round somewhere, but if not take care and have a great life.
Casey, I’m so sorry that it has taken me so long to reply to your entreaty @45 to spare you a minute.
But I have been off having adventures.
The first of my adventures has been in heading off to Cambodia for a holiday. In this day and age, you may think, this shouldn’t be particularly adventurous. And you’d be right. Normally.
But my bank, the National Australia Bank, being a customer focused bank, decided that without their intervention my holiday would lack the frisson of adventure and would therefore be unfulfilling to me.
So they put a block on my credit card so that it was swallowed up in an ATM on the first occasion I had to use it after I left Australia, leaving me with no funds, or access to funds, for my holiday. It took me two weeks to get that sorted. And they did everything they could to make that difficult for me (except for a guy called Joe, who is a champion).
If LP was going to be an ongoing concern I would give you the full story. But that is not to be so let me just share with all LPers: the National Australia Bank is so hopeless that its Chairman, Michael Chaney AO, would need to employ someone to wipe his bum (which he probably does on his remuneration) because he wouldn’t know how to do so himself if the performance of the bank for which he is responsible is anything to go by.
The other reason I could not write is that I’m falling into a relationship. It’s with a guy called Tony. I’ve never met Tony, and I have never written to him, but on Christmas Eve he sent me a letter by email, quite out of the blue. He called me Gregory, which I sensed as indicating a certain tentativeness in his approach. His email included a lovely video which, because of my troubles with the National Australia Bank, I just haven’t had the time to watch.
But there he was, back again on New Year’s Eve, sending me more sweet nothings. And another video in which I am sure, should I have watched it, I would have found him professing his undying love.
Casey what am I to do? I am sure that Tony is sincere. I am sure that he wants to enter into a relationship with me. But what sort of relationship?
Tony being Tony I expect that what he is looking for is a bromance. Blue ties and red budgie smugglers and all that. But what if he wants more than that? What if he harbours a secret desire for a union for life between a man and a man, excluding all others? How should I respond?
Should I succumb to his approaches then suggest to him that we plight our troths through a change in the definition of marriage in the Marriage Act to being a bit broader than a union for life between a man and a woman, excluding all others?
Australia Day is coming up so I’m expecting another love missive from Tony. How should I respond to his entreaties? After three love bombs I am sure he is expecting something from me to tell him whether his attentions are reciprocated.
Casey I don’t want you to be my agony aunt but I need your help.
What should I say to Tony if he sends me another email on the eve of Australia Day?
And what should I do if he doesn’t? Does that mean he has gone cold on me and if so should I feel offended and go into a giant sulk?
Dear ‘Lonely in Cambodia’
Thank you for your letter to my new weekly column and I am most happy to be of assistance to you for a small quart of Blood Group O or even A or B I will also take AB whatever I’m easy.
I have perused the cards and I see that your natal chart rises arises in the major arcana of:
The Tower.
Interpretation:
Death if you proceed with this relationship.
Let me explain: Unlike Paul Norton, your name is not Pegasus nor does it mean horse, no. This el weirdo attraction between you and the Prime Minister of Ourstralia is very serious. As a direct result of this coupling, you could lose all your friends and you would certainly get no respect here, had the blog continued. As it stands we are all feeling a little queasy but never mind, there is yet time to change your course.
True, he could well be the love of your life, that much is clear. This awakening infatuation, which has occurred because you a)ingested an hallucinogenic in Cambodia or b) your bank finally drove you insane, is not necessarily bad because this lifting of inhibitions towards the Liberal party and its increasingly sexy leader could bring you the greatest passion of your very boring life and if you won’t let me bite you, why not? Go for it. For you it will be the dawning of the Age of oh wait look the crystal ball is clouding, hang on:
Perhaps it’s not such a good idea. I see the major arcana of:
Cup of Swords
Interpretation:
Death if you proceed with this relationship.
First, you did not do a very dry January did you? Perhaps it was alcohol wot made you crazy for the PM?
Why?
Interpretation:
The Sword of Cups followed closely by the Laughing Fool card in your spread insists that this match will not be without its crossroads or challengers. Take me, for instance, I still want my fracking blood and I don’t give a frack about Abbott, I will have it.
Where was I?
Right: As the Laughing Fool card foretells, you will accept Tony’s video offers and indeed become the first bloke of Australia (following in Tim’s footsteps). The marriage laws will be overturned and Corgi Bernardi will leave the Liberal party to start a Home Army in Alice Springs. All good news. However, though you will be long remembered for your service to our country in demolishing the Liberal Party and getting same sex marriage laws finally introduced and vanquishing Corgi, there is much suffering in this alliance for you personally. It is you who will pay the most, Jesus, for he is a hard man, a lonely man, he wears lycra a lot and his temper is legend. True, his junk yard dog charms make him irresistible to you – when did you not like a good stoush nevertheless, I urge you:
Do not proceed for it will be death if you proceed.
Death, Gregory, death.
Therefore:
As the Runes fall into blood, the Book of Shadows speaks of a great fall about to occur in June this year, mark my words:
Pick me, what’s a little blood, at least I won’t kill you. Don’t be stupid, I just want to dye your hair blonde, there’s nothing scary about that. Why do you have to go and be a hero?
One last time: invite me.
Yrs eternally I mean eternally
Witch, etc, etc.
More of this, please.
Shoot the hostage.
What did Alice Springs ever do to deserve this fate?
Fyodor, please do not intervene in the affairs of state thank you very much.
Mindy, I myself would have said Qld but the cards/runes/twinkies do not lie what can I tell you?
The Corgi will be looking for a major city with a girly name.
Only Adelaide and Alice Springs fit the bill.
Adelaide is ruled out ‘cos he doesn’t want to bump into Amanda Vanstone or Christopher Pyne. It makes sense, Mindy.
I know a girl called Sydney. There are many more people in Sydney so the effect would be somewhat shared. *shakes fist at Twinkies. I always knew they were evil*
How about Victoria? He can have the whole state (sorry Victoria, someone has to do it) He can bugger off when the tennis is on and I want to go to Melbourne.
Or if he insists on the NT how about the Kimberley, Katherine Gorge or Edith Falls?
Perhaps he thinks “Springs” sounds athletic??
Katherine Gorge, she could finish up starring on The Biggest Fattie. And Edith is just clumsy.
I do like “Corgi” though.
“Kerr’s cur” is just so last century.
“Queen’s lapdog” is just right.
That’s one way of putting it.
GregM @ 93
Oh why why why is LP closing down? Why can’t I wake up to this in the morning?
And to think, back in the gender wars of 2013, I thought you were a pompous legalistic b-st-d – how could I be so wrong? Forget your new infatuation with Tony and same sex marriage, marry me, the coolest grandma on the block.
Or failing that, see you in the virtual reality, I hope.
Oops sorry about making both insulting remarks and random proposals to someone I’ve never met, on the blogosphere, after having some wine.
What I meant to say was GregM I really enjoyed your post @ 93, it was great, hope to read more like that somewhere in the future.
GregM, that is an absolutely terrible story, and to have received letters from Tones AS WELL, that’s just the extra sh** in a giant sh** sandwich. I hope the rest of the year is better.
Apologies if someone has quoted this already, but Mr Denmore writes in his latest post at the Failed Estate:
oops again GregM, now I think I should add my condolences also after reading Helen’s comment – I was treating the story as literature rather than an actual account of your experiences
but you did make a funny story of it, which is always a great thing to do with bad holiday experiences. Hope the rest of the holiday was good.
It is tragic that this is happening right when there is such a dearth of internet spaces devoted to the expression of those marginalised straight white male perspectives. Where is Get Up when we need them?
Was lurking for a spare moment – already said ‘goodbye’ – so here goes …. Linda @ 109:
It is indeed unfortunate that Larvatus Prodeo is closing right when there are fewer and fewer avenues of expression and Australia is facing social and economic and cultural and environmental disruption.
Perhaps some people have decided that the time for talk is over and now it is the time for action ….
Anyone for our own Velvet Revolution or Arab Spring??
mindy – he can have the Bishop and Clerk Islets – most southern part of Tassie.
greg m – enjoy your thing with One Term Tony, just don’t expect it to last. All the rest of you take care and all the best. Especially Helen, who once put up with me being a right dickhead and never held it against me – cheers.
Take care Graham – this is for you.
Thanks Jules @ 112.
Pity we don’t have anyone here to emulate Plastic People Of The Universe and so improve our moribund political scene. Take good care of yourself ….
Aw, Jules, thanks. I’m sure there have been instances of me being a right dickhead, if not to you, then to somebody.
Linda @ 109
Hi Linda I think you are a bit misdirected here – the point was that GregM, after coming across as – can’t say it politely so will just say it – a bit of a stuffed shirt, at least to me as a relative newcomer to this blog, suddenly seemed human, likeable and funny. I still believe that feminism should liberate men, as well as women, from the stifling influence of uptight patriarchy.
Quickly letting you all know who are still following this thread: comments will close on all current threads at 12 noon tomorrow, so if you’ve got any famous last words, now’s the time to share them with us.
Also, if any of you regular commentors tweet, even if infrequently, why not leave your twitter handle here? I’ll compile a twitter-list of our larrikins, wonks, flibbertigibbets, hacks, wits, modern marvels and ne’er-do-wells and set it up as a widget in a page here, for folks to keep an eye on should they wish.
Dunno if these are famous last words but looking at my rather weird series of comments to and about GregM just reminds me once again how easy it is – for me anyway – to dig yourself into a hole in the internet. So following in the spirit of Jules’ and Helen’s generous exchange about being dickheads, I’ve probably been a bit of one for the nth time there, but it was meant as reflections on how perceptions people online don’t necessarily reflect reality and or can change …
So .. Whatever … *wanders off into the sunset looking a bit dazed*
@valakay – thanks tigtog cheers
Thanks for all the thought provoking and informative posts and commentary over the years, people.
The tone of civility at LP has been notable. This will be missed with the web seemingly becoming more and more aggressively strident and troll-ridden.
Meanwhile, over at Cattlecrapsy, our old friend Bomber Bailey has a guest post claiming that the WWE is scripting the current argy-bargy between our government and our nearest neighbour.
While, over at QuadRANT, there is an Australia Day piece based on the author’s ignorance of the fact that many of the democratic institutions we supposedly “inherited” from the British were implemented and in some cases invented in Australia several decades before the Poms took them on board.
Linda@109 thank you for sharing my pain. It means so much to me.
Casey. He has written to me again. He has promised me a wonderful future together, along with some handy hints on budgeting which won’t go astray. No video this time though. Just a copy of some boring speech he delivered somewhere. I won’t bother reading it. I think my ardour has cooled somewhat since I received your sage advice.
But are you quite sure that the cards say it is death if I proceed with this relationship? And not something a bit milder like a really bad cold?
@Paulwifridjohnb
My Twitter account. Hell, I might even start using it now.
GregM @123: Mortal, such a fricken denial queen. Yes the cards say death but worse, we have run out of time. We are now in the flood that does not flow and the crystal ball no longer works. Look me up on twitter @witchdoctoring if you change your mind. I don’t use this twitter thing but if push comes to shove I will. Of course, my twitter account is private, so you have to actually invite me and you know what that means.
(Thunderbolt & tempest. Mist begins to fall. Exeunt one internet witch with familiars and the blog, which was always shaded the sacerdotal colour of sorrow anyway, turns the deepest shade of purple yet.)
I’m using my admin privileges to comment on this closed thread – pasting an email from Graham Bell who didn’t quite get this through before the portcullis slammed down.
Thanks Graham, good luck with it!