The World is already crazy those that don't believe so are in serious denial.

The internet makes it seem that way especially if you spend all day on a news site like NBC or Fox. It's really just same s**t different day (or year).

True enough DougLogan. The world has been crazy for a very long time. The advent of mass Media just allows for more people to hear about it faster. Before mass Media came along, It was old news by the time word got around. Plus People were a lot less concerned about things that didn't involve them directly.

The court needs to issue the victim a gun along with the order of protection. Or least put ankle monitors on these sick phucs; so that it can alert the victim when the abusive spouse is in a so many mile radius from them.

As a matter a fact; PHUC This SH#T. I got a daughter ; and when I die there is a possibility that she could end up with a nice guy who turns into a possesive, abusive, sicko. I strongly feel that us posters should ban together and get a law passed that states it is mandatory for abusers to wear ankle monitoring bracelets, once a credible restraining order is filed. Now if the goverment says that they don't have the money to do that. We just tell them to cut the welfare, foodstamps, section 8, and the illegal S.S.I benefits that they are giving to the millions of illegal immigrants. Iam not racist but our women / daughters need all the protection they can get.

dcworld, Agreed. We need more teeth in our legal system. A real sicko is not going to worry about a restraining order when there is nothing physically preventing " It" from breaking the order. A slap on the wrist and a " Don't do it again" simply isn't enough.

The world is not turning crazy but the US obsession with guns is crazy.

The statistics for intentional homicide in the US and UK show that 4.8 per 100,000 are murdered each year in the US as opposed to 1.2 per 100,000 in the UK. Of these gun-related killings are 3.6 per 100,000 in the US and 0.04 per 100,000 in the UK. This means that the average US citizen is 4 times as likely to be murdered by any means than his counterpart in the UK and 3 times as likely to be shot to death as a UK citizen is to be murdered by any weapon. The chance of being murdered by a firearm is 90 times as great in the US as it is in the UK. As these figures are per 100,000, they balance out the difference in the size of the respective populations.

Why this great disparity? It certainly is not that we are more godly in the UK. Church attendance there is between half and a quarter of that in the US. And violent video games and films are just as popular. We can assume that there are about the same percentage of potential murderers in the US as in the UK. These statistics show that three-quarters of murderers in the US choose a firearm to commit their crime. A gun is simply the most efficient weapon available. Handguns, the most commonly used weapon, are not suitable for hunting animals or birds but are designed specifically as people killers. They give the murderer the added benefit of being able to kill from a distance, increasing the chance of surprise and minimizing the danger of retaliation from the victim. And they are made indiscriminately available in their millions in the US, while in the UK even criminal gangs find them difficult to procure - http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21587270-small-police-agency-helping-keep-gun-crime-low-guns-hire.

So the answer is that those that attempt murder in the US are more likely to succeed due to the ready availability of the most efficient tool for the job.

It's been crazy for a long time, getting worse as time goes by.

Wow, this story just breaks my heart.How terrible that another disturbed individual has taken three lives, including a child's, besides his own, in an apparent domestic situation. Obviously, it is not the first time something like this has happened, and it will certainly not be the last time.

I wish there was more that could be done, besides issuing a protective order, to ensure that a victim is safe. Especially if the abuser has acted out, or threatened the victim through actions. In so many of these cases, where the perpetrator ends up killing the victim, there is a history of stalking, phone calls and/or physical abuse.

In my work with domestic abuse victims over a long period of time, so often the victims refused to press charges after being assaulted and battered, for fear worse things will happen to them, their children will be harmed, or the spouse will take them. Women are systematically isolated from family, friends and neighbors, so they have no one or nowhere to turn to. As I took these women and children into my home and listen to their stories, I came to truly understand the darker side of how an abuser traps his victim, and how difficult it was for them to try to escape.

It's essential that if people suspect that abuse is happening with a loved one, they try to get them help and stay in contact with the victim. Even if it's someone you don't know, you might be the only person available to notice, who can contact authorities to help them. Keep a journal of anything suspicious and notify the police when abuse is occurring, as the victim may be unable to. Abusers rely on others not caring or being too intimidated. You literally could end up being a life saver for an adult and children. And you can remain anonymous. The earlier help and intervention happens, the better chance there is for a positive outcome for all.

There will always be individuals who choose violence to solve their problems, and for some, that means eventually taking the lives of others, as well as their own. While society at large, can't prevent every case, hopefully, with more compassion and awareness of what is happening to our loved ones and those around us, we can prevent more tragedies from happening. It's easy to get caught up in the rush of life's activities and focus on all the things that take up our time. But ultimately, people are more important than things, and we need to let others know that, often.

Handguns, the most commonly used weapon, are not suitable for hunting animals or birds but are designed specifically as people killers. They give the murderer the added benefit of being able to kill from a distance, increasing the chance of surprise and minimizing the danger of retaliation from the victim.

Do you know ANYTHING about guns? I don't even know where to begin to point out either your ignorance or blatant lies.

So the answer is that those that attempt murder in the US are more likely to succeed due to the ready availability of the most efficient tool for the job.

So, your solution is to eliminate the most efficient tool for the job? Fine. Then what happens when something else becomes the most efficient tool? Whatever you eliminate, something else will take its place and that something will be - you guessed it; whatever is the most efficient!

I have a much better idea. Eliminate the MOTIVE for violence. Unfortunately, that can't be done by taking the lazy way out and blaming the weapon. It requires education, proper parental teaching, and diligence to instill good moral values to our society.

Mr Steady:

I used to use a 12 bore shot gun for hunting and a rifle for shooting vermin but the only hand-gun specifically designed for hunting was a little poacher's 410 pistol. I doubt whether they account for many of the millions of hand-gun sales in the US.

Here we go again. Same old BS. Over and over and over again....

Anti this, Pro that... It's getting old. It's only enjoyable for the newbies anymore...

GMCDBro-I don't know, I've had a lot of laughs with the Left's solutions to the problem.

gm Creek Dog, stonepipe

I'm with stonepipe on this one. I prefer to look for the chuckles instead of asking the obvious questions:
"Where are we going? And why are we in this handbasket?"

I especially like the political commentary, even though I rarely post there. Everything that can possibly be said about politics has already been said about hemorrhoids.

Well I don't have any solutions for you - the gun culture is too dominant in the US. There are too many guns and gun mania is too deeply engrained in the US mentality. But I wish you luck in eliminating all the causes of violence through instilling good moral values - you've got even less chance than in eliminating all guns. It would be a good start if you recognised that guns are part of the problem not the solution.

But I wish you luck in eliminating all the causes of violence through instilling good moral values

Why does that not make sense to you? Because it takes too much effort? Or is it that everyone wants to just give in to their lusts because morals go against the "me" attitude?

That's really it, isn't it? It's all about ME. Piss me off and I'll just blow you away. Take that! Serves you right! That'll teach people to let me have my way!

HAHAHAHA Johnny Marre - So instead of instilling moral values so we don't have to eliminate guns, you'd rather eliminate all guns and not instill moral values.

The first option requires education, self-control, practice, patience (traits liberals hate because it brings accountability)
The second option is laziness at it's best and not well thought out (I don't like something so NO ONE can have it)

Ginga,

Spot on! That's the entire problem. They are too lazy and selfish to address the root of the problem. Much easier to rob our rights because it doesn't affect them.

Try trampling on some of the rights that THEY hold dear however, you better hold onto your seat as the screaming begins!!!

GM All

Right there with ya denverbill! They get pretty feisty in the political message boards. I find the played out arguments more amusing than the article sometimes.

All in favour of installing good moral values - indeed it is essential in a well functioning society. I'm just not so naive as to think it'll solve the problems caused by indiscriminately arming the bad, the sad and the mad.

I'm just not so naive as to think it'll solve the problems caused by indiscriminately arming the bad, the sad and the mad.

More empty rhetoric. I know of no one who is in favor of "indiscriminately arming the bad, the sad and the mad."

Besides, in a perfect moral society you would eliminate the bad. Not saying you can achieve a perfect moral society. What I AM saying is we can drastically improve it. Attacking the method of violence will accomplish nothing as much as you want to claim that it will.

Well I'm not bad, sad and/or mad and you're still talking about taking away my guns? So can I keep my gun or do you want to take that away to? Not everyone with a gun is bad, sad and/or mad. I'm just not so naive to think that taking away all guns from everybody stops the bad, the sad and the mad from killing people...it actually makes it easier for them to kill people.

Also, when you say "good moral values" what does "good" mean? Does it mean what you say it means? If we all make up our own definition of good, then "good" really means nothing. Aren't you preaching what you believe are "good" moral values now? Like eliminating all guns? I disagree. The only way I can defend myself against a pack of thugs breaking into my house is with a long range deadly weapon.

The theif breaks in to steal, kill and destroy (armed or unamred). When you break into someones house and threaten their life or safety, you've given up your free rights as a human being and deserve to die (or you should atleast take into consideration before breaking in that you might/could die.)

Mr Steady and Ginga: " I know of no one who is in favor of "indiscriminately arming the bad, the sad and the mad." and "Well I'm not bad, sad and/or mad and you're still talking about taking away my guns?"

No-one may be in favour of indiscriminately arming the bad, the sad and the mad, but that is how it works in practice in the US. No-one really checks whether you are before you are allowed a gun and I'm sure that you would object to someone taking away your guns if a doctor said that you were mentally unstable.

As I say, I don't have solutions for you. In the US there are too many guns to eliminate and so you may be justified in your belief that you need them to protect yourself but it is a circular argument - more people need guns to protect themselves from more people with guns. In the UK the murder rate is lower than the US and even criminals have difficulty getting guns. A pistol was hired by two competing gangs for tit for tat shootings against each other because they are so difficult to obtain: http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21587270-small-police-agency-helping-keep-gun-crime-low-guns-hire.

I know I'm not sad mad or bad because I've never once in my life been in trouble with the law.

Also, you said "No-one really checks whether you are before you are allowed a gun and I'm sure that you would object to someone taking away your guns if a doctor said that you were mentally unstable."
A couple things here...

1.) You can't say 'no-one' because some people do perform backround checks.

2.) So if a doctor agrees that I AM mentally stable, can I keep my gun?

Also, Britian sucks. But you should move there if you like their gun laws instead of using your american freedom to express anti-constitutional ideas. Unfortunatly I'm sure there's plenty of violence even if the gun crimes are low. Taking a gun from a bad guy doesnt make them no longer a bad guy.

1. Only "some" people
2. So you agree that ALL gun owners should be subject to regular mental checks? Well, it's a step in the right direction

I live in the UK and, as a result, I'm 4 times less likely to be murdered than you are.

So why again does it matter to you what we do over here in the US? Furthermore, your opinion on this matter has become irrelevant because your a UK citizen. Congrats. I'll keep constitutional american rights and take my chances at being "4 times more likely to be murdered than you are."
Also, do you also believe that ALL car owners should be subject to regular mental checks? What about ALL alcohol users? I mean, these are all things that could lead to death/homicide if someone unstable is behind the wheel right? Or drunk... Or both...but we wont worry about that right? Idiot.

Johnnie Marre

No-one may be in favour of indiscriminately arming the bad, the sad and the mad, but that is how it works in practice in the US.

Some of the bad, mad and sad may be armed in the US, but I assure you it isn't indiscriminately. If you have proof to the contrary, please present it.

No-one really checks whether you are (?) before you are allowed a gun

All the money I have to spend on background checks suggests otherwise.

and I'm sure that you would object to someone taking away your guns if a doctor said that you were mentally unstable.

You point out the obvious. One of the salient features of mental illness is that most mentally ill people do not realize they are afflicted.

In the US there are too many guns to eliminate and so you may be justified in your belief that you need them to protect yourself

Just as I am justified in believing that if I want to cut down a tree, I deserve a good axe, or if I want to raise vegetables I deserve a tractor instead of a mule. They are all the best tools for the job.

In the UK the murder rate is lower than the US and even criminals have difficulty getting guns. A pistol was hired by two competing gangs for tit for tat shootings against each other because they are so difficult to obtain: http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21587270-small-police-agency-helping-keep-gun-crime-low-guns-hire.

More proof that if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

I live in the UK and, as a result, I'm 4 times less likely to be murdered than you are.

You are also less likely to get a good steak or good dental care. I consider it a fair trade.

Ginga and denver,

Ever notice how the gun haters tell us in one breath how likely we are to be murdered by the huge prevalence of guns and then out of the other side of their mouths tell us that the chances of being murdered by a gun are so small that we don't NEED one to protect ourselves?

Hmmmm???

Morning bill / Stone...

Johnnie Marre

I live in the UK and, as a result, I'm 4 times less likely to be murdered than you are.

#1.28 - Wed Nov13, 2013 10:53 AM EST

Correct you are.

But, why is it that if a guy is breaking into your house and cuts himself while slipping through the window he broke sues you and wins in court?!

Why do you go to jail for life if a guy breaks in to kill you or a loved one and you shoot and kill him to protect yourself?!

You see, it's 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of another....

You're also 4 times less likely to enjoy palm trees and crystal clear warm ocean water over there.

4 times less likely not to get sued from a burglar or go to jail having to kill to protect you very own life...

You can't have it all bro...

Well, Denver Bill 2, maybe we put ourselves into this mess when we long, long ago strayed from the FF principles and intent for creating a nation the entire world could look up to. Pinpointing the when is not important. Identifying and agreeing that we have strayed is far more important. Mis-steps we took along the past 230 some years include: expanding govt; losing control of the banking industry; allowing for professional politicians; passing too many laws (the lastest Bush admin is said to have passed 40k alone); interfering in the affairs of foreign governments; an army far too large for national defense, that in fact has been instead used for offense since I don't know when; failing schools; a large turn away from religious principles; a loss of moral virtue;, etc. We are all to blame, because we accept the status quo and do little or nothing to change it. Just watch how many professional office-holding politicians are re-elected over the next two years. We the People will forget all about the govt shutdown, and re-elect the same clowns, over, and over, and over again. We elected an empty suit, non-qualified Muslim-educated no experience guy to the WH. What did we expect? Miracles? The violence in our country, the poverty and extremely high unemployment, the disappearing middle class, were all foretold in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, written back around 1957 and since has become the second best selling book of all time, after the Bible. There are no surprises in our current situation to those who are fairly well read about current and most importantly, past events. While I don't feel it is too late to take back our country and start following our Constitution, I think it may very well require blood in the streets to do so. Our Congress does nothing: no budget passed since 2009; our Supreme Court ignores the Const. and makes illegal rulings right and left, year in, year out, and the populace, that's us, blindly follows corporate-dictated media and gets swept up in candidate hysteria instead of thinking for ourselves. More people on this page are interested in Duck Hunter shows and idiot alleged celebrities, than the very serious issues that govern all our lives. But hey, it's easier to walk around with our heads down, and drive around with our eyes down, into our all important electronic devices, than to care.

... get a law passed that states it is mandatory for abusers to wear ankle monitoring bracelets, once a credible restraining order is filed.

Credible restraining order? Sounds like a low-salt anchovy or low-fat lard. There is no such thing as a credible restraining order. Any woman who requests a restraining order, gets one. It's that simple. A woman meets a new man and decides to leave her husband of 20 years.... her new divorce lawyer will encourage her to seek a restraining order (because he makes money seeking it from the Judge). The lawyer will tell her, "you need one just in case, just to be safe". And the Judge WILL grant it. No judge wants to deny a restraining order, only to find out later that the woman is either being harassed or worse, violence occurs. You could be a Buddhist Monk with a lifelong record of non-violence, and your ex will still get a restraining order if she asks for it.

So there you are at work just days after your wife left you. You never once acted violently against your wife in the entire 20 years of your marriage. You are humiliated, despondent, confused, depressed, and to make matters worse, you now have a monitoring device on your leg, LIKE A CRIMINAL. Stigma? You bet. You think your co-workers understand all the nuances of how that monitor got there? They don't. To them, you are now considered a violent person who the courts deemed in need of a monitoring device.

Your idea works on the assumption that Restraining Orders are diligently researched before they're granted. They are not. They are there for the asking. Any woman who leaves her husband gets one, with little to no questions asked. Your mandatory monitor idea is draconian and unfair.

I have a daughter too. And an ex-wife. No, she did not seek a restraining order on me, but she sure could have and there wouldn't have been a damn I could do about it. Other than pay a lawyer $360 per hour to fight it and eventually lose.

Could've just saved us the trouble and blew his own brains out first and sorry to hear that Harold.

Ginga: Some might think that applying to own a tool that is designed to kill people at a distance is more worthy of mental checks than applying to buy one designed to get you from A to B.

But since you are comparing guns to cars, you might like to institute a license for guns accompanied by a test to ensure that you can handle them safely and know the "rules of the road" so to speak. And of course compulsory 3rd party insurance in case you misuse them. Or perhaps you'd like to see the driving test replaced by a voluntary scheme of lessons run by the American Automobile Association?

Johnny Marre - So what's your ultimate point? Aren't you backing the agenda trying to take guns away? Don't you perfer nobody own guns period?

Maybe we need drones for domestic violence abusers. It would be much easier to kill them before they kill others

Who makes that model? ;)

I don't believe in arranged marriages; but I do believe in using my gut feeling to tell some shady individual to stay the phuc away from my daughter. Kids don't have that sixth sense like real parents. That's why fathers should stick around more often because our kids are easily fallen prey to some idiot who thinks your daughter belongs to him.

Sadly a protection order is just a piece of paper that in and of itself is valueless. it is only of any worth if there happens to be police near when the person violates it.

Since no one else has touched on this:

"Police believe the man was served with an order of protection in a court appearance Tuesday and the woman had gone to the house to pick up belongings, Crump said."

Why in the world would she go to the man's house to pick up belongings without police protection! Yes, what he did was criminal, but she really should have avoided the house or asked for an escort!

they are more worthless than the paper there printed on...

MIKE,

Agreed. It was the violation of an order of protection, and the lack of response to the report of same, that led to the SCOTUS decision in Gonzalez v. Castle Rock that the police have no duty to protect the public.

I see you still have the same two word vocabulary. There were some people in MI knifed recently, should we ban them too? Could you also point out where in the article it stated "handgun"? It could have been a shotgun too.

It's a lost cause, trying to talk to takenaka. She is retarded, and can only copy/paste.

takentard- The only difference between your beloved Biden's shotgun and the most badass pistol you've ever seen is a hacksaw.

Stupid people will never get it.

ban stupid people from legally owning them..if it was a handgun...he might have been a hunter...want to ban them also??

gm Tramp

takenaka, I see you have lost none of your eloquence. My offer to debate handgun ownership with you still stands.

She drops the troll bait. You guys suck it up like you haven't eaten in months.

And she's the idiot?

Take a step back and see whose playing who.

Stupid people will never get it.

Ain't that the truth.

Mr Steady - We've ceased to be a thinking society. The sheeple like having whatever agenda makes them FEEL good spoon fed to them (i.e. "Hope and Change") while some of us seek truth and logic.

The liberal agenda brings unearned, undeserved "entitlement", laziness, it lacks serious accountability, makes people think less (they just divert right to the heart first for EVERYTHING, instead of diverting to the MIND - the part of the being that actually uses real logic and fact)

I agree with your last statement obviously. Parents are what is failing. Not monitering what their kids watch on TV, eat, what video games they play, the other kids they hang out with. Parents are more concerned with making sure their child is "happy" now (by spoling them) than making sure they set their child up for success in the future. So then when the child becomes an adult, they're left taking care of themselves - something they're not used to doing.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything." - G.K. Chesterton

Great post, Ginga. I agree with all of it.

Cheers :)

Ginga Ninja

40 million Americans have no health insurance. You have convenient labels for all 40 million of them - unearned, undeserved "entitlement", laziness.

There are no good jobs anymore Ginga. We sent them all overseas. We have far more people than we do jobs. In the 2013 world we now live in, it's ludicrous to assume that employers can provide health coverage for the entire Nation like they did in the 70s.

Those are facts. Now, do you just turn your back on 40 million of our fellow citizens? Or do you apply logic and figure out that a solution MUST be found. It's illogical to assume that 40 million uninsured Americans is a problem we can ignore. And that's EXACTLY what conservatives want to do... ignore the problem like they have for the last 30 years.

Really? So because we MUST find a problem, it entitles you to covet other people's money? That's NOT a solution. It's called stealing.

BFD. Just another shooting gun-crazy USA. I'm sure there will be several more by the end of the day.

So you're always prepared to kill someone? Great idea.

Sammy, are you sure you didn't suffer a concussion when you hit your head a couple months ago?

Humm: You mean, just because I have a tire iron with me, I'm prepared to kill someone?

sam adams

So you're always prepared to kill someone? Great idea.

I'm always prepared to defend myself. And I will extend the same offer to you that I have had on the table for takenaka for a couple of years: If you wish to debate gun ownership instead of just huff and puff about how bad it is, I'll be happy to oblige.

Humm: You mean, just because I have a tire iron with me, I'm prepared to kill someone?

No, no weed. Can't you ever get it right? It's the jumper cables! You could strangle someone.

Stupidest post of the day - darwin award!

ike,

What great wisdom do YOU have to contribute to the conversation?

Does sarcasm annoy you that badly or are you just pissed off because weed and I are speaking the truth by implying that guns aren't the only items that can be used as a weapon?

Amen, I couldn't agree more. And remember, stay away from those cans.

because the right to bear arms is just more important than anything else, and apparently more important than anyone's right to keep breathing.

The two are mutually exclusive. How does my right to bear arms infringe on your right to keep breathing? Please enlighten us.

Hysterical rhetoric. Will it ever end?

Remember, Guns don't kill people, crazy gun owners people do. God bless America.

Are you prepared to make the claim that people only use guns to commit murder? If not, your statement is more empty rhetoric and my edit to it is much more accurate, is it not?

Mr. Steady,

Don't tap on the aquarium. It annoys the fish.

GM denver!

LOL!

i could have used my legally owned handguns and killed both of them..which crossed my mind at the time..

Actually just the fact you thought about it as a possibility puts you in the questionable category.

.so not all legal handgun owners are not wackos...

This one was.

MIKE-679507

they are more worthless than the paper there printed on..

MIKE-679507

really tired of all the anti-gun nuts and there postings...

There, their and they're all have different meanings.

i'm so old that back when i learned english they didn't have 3 different...there,their,they're...try to stay on the subject or find an english major site...

Americans don't have a language. We stole English from the king. Then we modified it. We mis-spell and/or mis-pronounce several words.

But that's OK. Most SMART people know what we are saying and what we mean. Even when we leave out the "U", while spelling "color". Or spelling "their" incorrectly.

Americans don't have a language. We stole English from the king. Then we modified it. We mis-spell and/or mis-pronounce several words.

But that's OK. Most SMART people know what we are saying and what we mean. Even when we leave out the "U", while spelling "color". Or spelling "their" incorrectl

The post of a ranting idiot. Go back to your tequila bottle and navajo fry bread. The rest of us have grown up things to do, OUTSIDE of the reservation.

Ike - What kind of hypocrite are you? All youve done is post unless posts about useless posts. What have you said that has been intellectually well thought out? Nothing from what I have seen.

Wow tumbleweed, you are SO COOL! I hope that someday I can be like you.

For all of your insistence on the fact that you don't even hardly think about your guns, you sure talk about them on newsvine pretty much 24/7. That pretty much qualifies you as "Nut" (if you even own one, which I've begun to doubt). LOL

Which category do you fit in ike? LOL.

Woman hater. LOL.

Oh, and how would you know what a MAN thinks?

IKE - do you know the woman? I do. I think you should be careful with uniformed spouting. At the end of the day, these are real people and there are lives that have been devastated. Instead of using this as a venue for rhetoric and hysterics, we should try to remember those who are impacted and see how we can help them.

Prayers for peace for the families impacted by this tragic situation, of which none of us know the real happenings inside their marriage.