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Two families sue over religion in classroom



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By LISA RATHKE The Associated Press - Published: February 10, 2009

MONTPELIER — Two families are suing the Irasburg school district over a teacher who it claims proselytized in the classroom and retaliated against students who complained.

In a federal lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union on their behalf, the families accused Irasburg Village School teacher Wally Rogers of including religious books he bought with school funds in a reading program and creating incentives for students to read them.

They also said he posted the Ten Commandments on the wall, distributed religious materials and directed students to his Web page, which contained information on creationism. By allowing it, the school district violated their constitutional rights, according to the lawsuit, which was filed Friday.

"This has been a long battle for us. And we're just hoping that this brings it a close, that people get educated on what's going on," said Melvin Downs, of Irasburg, one of the plaintiffs.

People don't understand that Christianity cannot be taught in a public school, he said. "We hope to educate the public about what's happening, what's been happening for probably almost 15 years now," he said. "There's been people who have come forward and complained for years."

Principal Paul Simmons and Superintendent Stephen Urgenson didn't immediately return phone calls seeking comment Monday. Pietro Lynn, a Burlington attorney representing the supervisory union, said he could not talk about the details of the case.

"The school acted appropriately in all respects," he said. "We expect that we will prevail in this matter."

Melvin and Anne Downs and Robin and Robert Voitle, who each had daughters in Rogers' seventh grade class, said Rogers added overtly religious books he bought with school funds in a list of books students could read as part of a reading program.

But he offered more points to students for reading those books than the others, according to the families.

Rogers also distributed a statement entitled "Why Jesus is better than Santa Claus," saying Jesus "rides on the wind and walks on the water" and "became our gift and died on the tree," the lawsuit said.

After complaining to the principal, the families said Rogers retaliated by singling out the students, which encouraged other students to belittle them, the lawsuit said.

The principal did not address the problems so the family went to the school board and then the superintendent, the complaint said.

In response, the school district agreed to pay for the children to go to other schools, the lawsuit said. But last year, the families were told the school district would pay for only one year of tuition and billed the Voitles approximately $400 for the difference in costs between the Irasburg and Orleans school, the lawsuit said.

The Voitles' daughter attends Coventry Village School. Their 11-year-old son is home schooled. The Downs' two daughters attend Orleans Elementary and Brownington Central School. Both families said their younger children would have attended the Irasburg school had the teacher and administrators behaved differently.

The lawsuit seeks unspecified monetary damages and reimbursement for attorneys' fees.

"We'd like everyone to realize that this is a public school and it has to follow the same laws that everybody else does," Downs said.








READER COMMENTS


The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

I'm amazed that mere discussion of religion, be it Christianity, Judaism, Islam or any other religion, can be construed to be in violation of the principles of the First Amendment. This Amendment is frequently referred to as the "Establishment Clause' to the Constitution because it SPECIFICALLY prohibits the establishment of a particular religion through legislative act. How the Courts have managed to morph the plain language of the document to so severely limit discussion or inclusion of religion in our daily discourse, education and public life is amazing to me.
-- Posted by None None on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 11:17 pm EST

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M.L., join the others inn the corner at the research table, OK?

M.L. sez: "AND I QUOTE "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by THEIR CREATOR with certain unalienable Rgihts[sic]"

first sentance[sic] of the decleration[sic], go back to school jest."

Your lack of education notwithstanding , M.L., I'm still waiting for one of you to come up with the Christian references you say are in the founding documents of our country. Without that I can't accept your claim that this is a Christian nation.

The bell is going to ring soon, boys and girls. Please find those references and post them here. Good luck!
-- Posted by Jest Askin on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 10:58 pm EST

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Getting back to this lawsuit, against this small town elemetary School. I find it so weird, that these parents, didn't see the ten commandments, up on the wall, when they went to the school, for there parent/teachers conferences, for there children? I have only met one of the individuals, who have filed this lawsuit. They came to this town, then left, then came back. The other Family, is some how related, to each other. I know, that this lawsuit, has hurt, many of the towns people, and they are really asking, why? Why the hatred, from these two families, that they had to file such a lawsuit? This small town in the Northeast Kingdom, has made all of the States Newpapers now. Its now in the Federal District Court hands. The town mite as well, file for Bankrupty, over what they are asking for in the Nine page Complaint. The request for relief: Wherefore the Plaintiffs are entitled to have this Court: United States District Court:

a. declare the Defendants' actions to have violated the United States Constitution;

b. order injunctive relief;

c. award money damages;

d. order he payment of costs and attorney's fees, and

e. order any other relief as the Court deems just.

64. The Plaintiffs assert their right to a trial by jury.

The American Civil Liberties Union Foundation of Vermont.
Attorneys for Robert
and Robin Voitle, and
Melvin and Anne Downs
A. Jeffry Taylor, Of Counsel
Abatiell Associates, P.C.
1 Justice Squire
Rutland, Vt

Dan Barrett
ACLU Foundation of Vermont
137 Elm Street
Montpelier, Vt

Antonio D. Pyle, P.C.
227 Upper Baird Road
Stowe, Vt

Dated this 6th day of February, 2009.
-- Posted by Catherine R on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 7:50 pm EST

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ML - Although I prefer not jousting with snake handlers and river dippers,
"Their Creator" isn't necessarily a specifically Christian reference.........Each denomination of believer has a special someone they're willing to suggest is the reason they've killed someone.
-- Posted by walt amses on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 6:37 pm EST

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Whether the constitution mentions God or not, it doesn't say that america is only a christian based country. It states freedom of religion, meaning, all religions. And if a parent doesn't want their child learning about a religion other then their own, they should have a say in whether they are learning it in school. I like brad and anglina's way of parenting, they have books on all religions, there kids get to choose their own path of belief. =-)

I don't think anyone should 'preach' from a book of god in school of any religion, but teaching them about the societal differences, is something all children should be taught.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 4:58 pm EST

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AND I QUOTE "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by THEIR CREATOR with certain unalienable Rgihts"

first sentance of the decleration, go back to school jest.
-- Posted by M. L. on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 4:40 pm EST

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Well, Mike and Cheryl (oops, mike and cheryl), I hope you haven't given up on the assignment to find the Christian references in our founding documents. If you're going to proclaim that this is a "Christian Nation" or that this country was founded on Christian principles or that we have to read the meaning behind these documents or some other such nonsense then you're going to have to prove it - to me anyway.

Congratulations, mike, on not giving in to the use of symbolic profanity as cheryl did. I know it's frustrating trying to find something that isn't there but think how awful it was for all those US military people turning over every grain of sand in Iraq looking for caches of WMD that weren't there. Now THAT's frustration - and people died for those nonexistent WMD. Think about that as you look for the nonexistent Christian beginnings of the United States of America. It makes your task a walk in the park, doesn't it?
-- Posted by Jest Askin on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 3:44 pm EST

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jest, you ignorance is amusing. im not even going to bother with you. i suggest others do the same. he doesnt debate, just acts like a donkey.
-- Posted by M. L. on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 3:39 pm EST

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I just think enough is enough already! How many lawsuits over one simple word like "GOD" do there need to be before our own legal system says the same thing? Get the @#$! over it people!! We have to listen enough about what you DONT believe, when is there time for your kids to learn anything else?
-- Posted by cheryl tash on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 3:01 pm EST

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Obviously Jest, you failed U.S. history. The pilgims? The persecution of Catholics that led to the founding of the state of Maryland? Ring any bells? And do you honestly believe that the crisis in Israel stems only from what happened in 1948? You are what's wrong with the educational system in this country! Did you even study ANY US history prior to WW2? Stop believing whatever BS your teacher filled you with, read a book and think for yourself! You have blown it Jest, you really need to read the history BEHIND these documents. Learn a little bit about the writers. Please do Cheryl, Heidi and myself a favor, learn history. THEN come back and debate when you have learned all of the FACTS! Otherwise you are just coming off as an arrogant and ignorant fool.
-- Posted by mike kuban on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 12:55 pm EST

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Ah, Heidi, please join cheryl and mike at the table in the corner where they are feverishly trying to find Christian references in our country's founding documents.

Hint: The Ten Commandments predate Christianity ... and they aren't mentioned either.

Good luck!
-- Posted by Jest Askin on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 10:19 am EST

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Where do you think our laws today originated from, but The Ten Commandments.
-- Posted by Heidi Snyder on Thu, Feb 12, 2009, 9:38 am EST

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OK, mike kuban, perhaps you'd like to work collaboratively with "cheryl" and note all the references to Christianity in our founding documents.

BTW, "mike," you might want to read something other than the Bible when you discuss the Israel/Palestinian thing. Some of it just might have to do with lands that were taken from the people who were there before Israel was formed by the U.S. and Europeans in 1948. That might remain as a major issue for those who were forced off their lands and herded into what are little more than refuge camps. That part has little to do with religion as such but I agree that religion is the greatest cause of unrest, miscarriages of justice and murder the world has ever known. That it's magnified in the middle east because three major religions claim it as the founding sites of their religions doesn't mean it doesn't exist elsewhere - like in the good old US of A, India, China and elsewhere. If God wants to do something really useful he should ban all the religious wars, individual killings and persecutions executed in His name. Perhaps His tears prevent Him from seeing the mess we humans have caused by our foolish need to worship something we've fashioned in the image of what a god should look like.
-- Posted by Jest Askin on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 10:38 pm EST

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I think all religions should be taught to some extent in schools. Like it or not, a person needs to understand the basics of religion in order to have an intelligent understanding of what's going on in the world. Israel isn't fighting Hamas over oil or a difference of opinion on which flag is prettier. It's about religion. I don't agree with teaching exclusively about Christianity, unless it's at a private parochial school. I do think that students should be exposed to the basics of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Budhism, and any other prominent religion. No person can carry on an intelligent conversation about the Middle East without knowing the story of Isaac and Ishmael. The separation of church and state was not intended to keep students ignorant of religion. The FACT is that this country, The United States of America, was founded by Christians looking to escape persecution for practicing their form of Christianity. That this country has since become a melting pot for ALL religions is a benefit that our forefathers could not have predicted, but they wisely left room in our constitution for this to occur. My only criticism is that the schools do not do enough to teach all of the worlds major religions. Our schools shield these students from this and then turn them lose on the world to vote on the most powerful position in the world. And by the way, Jest, before jumping on cheryl about her lack of knowledge of our history, it would do YOU some good to read a history book past the first few pages of each chapter, stop taking whatever a teacher tells you as gospel, and form you own opinion. Your suggestion that Chrisianity played no major role in this country's government shows your own ignorance!
-- Posted by mike kuban on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 6:22 pm EST

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Hey, cheryl tash, your embarrassing lack of knowledge about America's origins and why we have the freedom to practice ANY form of religion we wish to (or not) tells me that you should go back to school and this time actually open the books and listen to the teachers. To give you a head start on your resumption of a basic education I have assigned you the following tasks:

1.) Please read the Declaration of Independence and note any references to Christianity or Christian concepts therein.

2.) Report back to us with your findings

3.) Be ready to accept addition assignments related to the search for references to the United States of America as a Christian nation.

4.) Goodbye
-- Posted by Jest Askin on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 4:48 pm EST

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Religion is for Sunday School.
Science, History, Reading and Arithmatic' is for PUBLIC SCHOOL.

This is not an attack on anyone's faith nor it is an attack on any faith in particular yet it is upholding this divide between church and state that our religious founding fathers held so near and dear and smartly put into our constitution and bill of rights.
-- Posted by General Robert Lee on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 4:34 pm EST

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oh and by the way, this country was derived in christianity and in the right to freedom of religion for the american people; if you werent born american and you dont like the way we practice our religion then exercise your right to go back where you were born and raised and practice your religion there!
-- Posted by cheryl tash on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 4:19 pm EST

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OMG!! You want to know what really burns my buns? All these people who come over here or are born here and expect us to practice their religion and listen about their beliefs but they turn a deaf ear and protest against ours!! Go home or accept it cause thats what america is and that's how it's gonna stay baby!! YAH!!!!
-- Posted by cheryl tash on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 4:16 pm EST

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I sang in chorus for 6 years, from 7th grade to my senior year. We were always able to sing christmas songs. It was never an issue. My niece sang for chorus, I went to her assemblies, they sang christmas songs. She graduated in 97. I've been to christmas concerts since then for other kids, they sing christmas songs. Not sure what school you go to that they don't allow christmas songs.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 3:58 pm EST

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Correction...COULDNT sing any christmas songs
-- Posted by Amy Marks on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 3:43 pm EST

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WHy are the kids aloud to learn about jews and muslums...but not christianity? This country is messed up. Just like when I was in school...we could sing any Christmas but we could sings Hebrew songs in Chorus.
-- Posted by Amy Marks on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 3:41 pm EST

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Once again...Captian Obvious...if indeed you are that....you don't know all the details in this case....Mr. Rogers wasn't TEACHING his beliefs in the classroom. The paper and reports will tell you that but it's not how it happened....and remember he is a language arts teacher using many different types of literature.
-- Posted by Laurie Grimm on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 2:56 pm EST

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A calm rational man would keep his own deep religious beliefs out of the classroom.
-- Posted by Captain Obvious on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 2:17 pm EST

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AJ NONE - I can guarentee you that Mr. Rogers is not a "hate filled Bible thumping hypocritical bigot" but a very calm rational man with deep religious beliefs...however I cannot speak for the other side of this case. Always interesting with the ACLU fights against Christians when they tell us that we are to be tolerant of all things but don't give Christianity that same respect.
-- Posted by Laurie Grimm on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 2:05 pm EST

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none, correct. but neithor can be proved. One simply chooses to accept the one that makes the most sense. I think that they should teach evolution, but they should also teach religious tolerance as well. We have gotten to a point that and mentioning of god in public equals a law suit. So to be fair, those who are trying to damper religous freedome are no better than the religion that they oppose.

"The consequence of the epistemology of religion is the politics of tyranny. If you cannot reach the truth by your own mental powers, but must offer an obedient faith to a cognitive authority, then you are not your own intellectual master; in such a case, you cannot guide your behavior by your own judgment "
Ayn Rand
-- Posted by M. L. on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 1:55 pm EST

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Evolution is a scientific concept, not a religious concept. It was developed after years of study and analysis of evidence and information. Creationism is a religious concept that was created in the bible without any explanation; it only requires that one accept what it is written. There is no independent evidence of creationism.
There are completely different foundations for each. Evolution relies on scientific hypothesis and creationism relies solely on belief.
M.L., teaching evolution is not the teaching that there is no god. There is a big difference between teaching evolution and pushing atheist or agnostic beliefs on students.
-- Posted by None None on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 1:44 pm EST

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no, they took a different evolutionary path. they are more specialized for their enviornment. look at all the different kinds of birds. they all are the same species (as we are with primates) but they all have variation that have helped them depending on thier specific needs (grubs, fish, termites, flowers and so on). Humans made it to the point that their bodys had evolved to the best they would, the only part that still can evolve is our brains. In theory, in manny years there will be a division of humans.

If the good looking people continue to mate with other good looking people they have better and better looking children, the opposite holds true with ugly people, they get uglier. So if that trend continues there will be two subspecies of humans, one who is good looking, and one who is not as good looking. the question that is raised is how will human intellect be affected by the above? I dont know the answer to that because there is no corrilation to looks and brains, it is just most people who are better looking tend to rely on their looks more than their brains to get what they want, not that they are incaipable of thinking.
-- Posted by M. L. on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 1:31 pm EST

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That's a good point ML, and is why I think it should be taught in a societal sense. Letting kids know the diversity of other societies and the religions they believe in, but not actually teaching or preaching a religion. Just like I received back in Graded school. I remember learning that people in China believed in Buddha for instance, but we never learned how Buddha was worshipped by them.

As for evolution, I still have a hard time with that concept. If we evolved from apes, then why are there still so many species? Because they haven't evolved yet?
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 12:30 pm EST

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It say, "Freedome OF religion" meaning freedome to choose. I does not say anywhere in the constitution, "freedome FROM religion". I am an agnositc, however, by the schools teaching evolution (and i believe in it) they are choosing one belief over the other. The belief that there is no religion is a Religious view in and of itself. So to teach what the Atheist believe (that there is no god) and not what others believe, is not allowed under the constitution.
-- Posted by M. L. on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 12:18 pm EST

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Thank you Laurie for the Clarification, I meant no disrespect to your beliefs, and yes, there is two sides to this story we haven't heard. Take Care.

Yes Oldman, Kwanzaa isn't a religion, but the moral value of the principals could be used like the commandments for all, if the commandments can be put in a class room for the moral value of it, then I see no reason why the principals of Kwanzaa couldn't be also. The commandments are to learn moral behavior, same with Kwanzaa was my point, and it's good to know you wouldn't have an issue with it. :)
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 12:01 pm EST

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Melissa - and all others - there are some facts here that I have heard about that simply aren't in the news. The 10 commandments on the wall are considered a historical document just like the Constitution and my understanding is that they had been on the wall in that classroom for years. Melissa - I am up for teaching a variety of religions when it is done in a historical manner. I took World History in High School way back in the late 70's and really learned alot. Mr. Rogers did not TEACH his Christian religious views in the classroom as he is being accused of doing and I don't believe he would have singled out the students or asked others to belittle them as was the charge. I am happy that, even though I didn't say it, Melissa, you have figured out that I am a Christian and proud of it. I am also a pretty tolarant person and believe that people do have a right to their own beliefs but what I don't like is when accusations leveled on a long time teacher by young students who don't like him are believed over the facts in the case.
-- Posted by Laurie Grimm on Wed, Feb 11, 2009, 9:17 am EST

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I would have no problem whatsoever with the study of Kwanzaa - something most people know nothing about. It is in no way religious in nature. It is the invention of Ronald Karenga. He was a black activist and a nasty piece of garbage that was convicted of torturing two women with electrical cords and a hot soldering iron. He would likely have gotten a much longer sentence if the crimes happened today. His 60's organizations were linked to murders also. He is intelligent and through supercharged affirmative action of the era received his advanced degrees and got a "professor" of Black Studies at Cal State LB.

Kwanzaa turned into a positive event despite its origins coming from a professional con man. The website you list doesn't disclose it's founder's past or his affiliations of course. But that's what STUDY is. Knowing as many facts as possible.
-- Posted by Olde Man on Tue, Feb 10, 2009, 8:39 pm EST

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Well, Town Meeting is just around the corner, and I am sure, that before the towns people pass the School Budget, there will be alot of discussion on this. The truth, shall set you free. The different media organizations, have been talking about this, and bring out more and more stuff, as to what these two families, are saying. My mom, told me, that when she was going to Elemetary School, her father and mother, had to pay, for there school education, and provide there own transportation, to and from school. Everyone, wants a hand-out now a days, not a hand-up.
-- Posted by Catherine R on Tue, Feb 10, 2009, 5:18 pm EST

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Kwanzaa has some wonderful values like the commandments Oldman, would you have no problem they be posted in the class room also?
http://www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org/NguzoSaba.shtml

The school would be filled with many different religions, when would they have time to study there subjects? If you start allowing one religion to be taught in a school then they all should be taught in a school.

If it's like I posted earlier, if they are just touching base on the societal issues of religions and the many types, then that's teaching kids diversity. This report is saying he is handing out christian books describing the benefits of knowing jesus, that's totally different then just teaching kids there are all kinds of religions in world societies.
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Tue, Feb 10, 2009, 4:36 pm EST

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Laurie Grimm - You are correct ! This is only ONE side of the story. Notice all that Mr. Rogers can't defend himself publicly. Easy to throw stones without all the facts.

Religion should be taught-as the important history it represents. A true STUDY of all faiths would probably be allowed. Study - not promotion.

I don't go to church. I still believe the 10 commandments are good rules to live by.

Laurie Grimm - Thanks for standing up for what you believe. The truth is a powerful thing.

.
-- Posted by Olde Man on Tue, Feb 10, 2009, 4:26 pm EST

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So because you're a christian Laurie, you think it's okay to teach christianity in school? Of course if he was teaching other religions that would be in the paper and a law suit would prevail. And if the school didn't feel they were allowing someone to preach the bible, then why did they offer to pay for the students to go to another school? Tolerance is not teaching kids a religion in school. Would you be so tolerable if your children were learning another faith that Jesus doesn't exist? Or would you prefer that be left to you at home and your church?
-- Posted by Melissa B. on Tue, Feb 10, 2009, 11:12 am EST

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It's too bad that the paper isn't giving Mr. Rogers side of the story but I understand he has been asked to not respond at this point. I know Mr. Rogers and am aware that many of the allegations against him are not true. The facts, when given, are much more clear than the allegations but the plantiffs only want to believe what they think is true. And, yes, how interesting it would be if a teacher were teaching about Islam or the Muslim religion or any other religion besides Christianity for that matter. I don't believe any of this would be in the news if that were the case. And what ever happen to tolerance...which apparently doesn't apply to the Christian religion or it's believers. I am totally on Mr. Rogers side and believe that he and his teaching position will prevail in this situation.
-- Posted by Laurie Grimm on Tue, Feb 10, 2009, 11:04 am EST

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Imagine the hue and cry if this teacher had promoted Islam or any religion other than Christianity! He would have been shut down immediately. Sending the children to another school was NOT an appropriate response on the part of the school district. It's too bad that the families had to resort to a lawsuit to get this addressed appropriately.
-- Posted by None None on Tue, Feb 10, 2009, 10:00 am EST

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