Thanks so much for taking the time post this important issue.
Rosemarie's plight today could so easily be yours or mine tomorrow.
She's a damn fine woman who deserves justice. I hope your fine readers will take a moment or two, as you have, to email these officials and make them aware of their views.
This kind of thing is going on everywhere in this country (a similar incident took place in Denver, recently). We REALLY need to put a stop to it. I'll write a letter first thing tomorrow morning.
Hey shane, the link about the mysterious "AnnA"? Weren't those people arrested for some conspiracy to build a bomb though? For sure, she may have been instrumnetal in entrapping them to do it, but bomb making... once upon a time i might have been mad enough, not now.
There's just too many things that could go wrong, even if it was intended to be used against empty property. Much safer ways to destroy property i think, if i was minded to do such a thing.
Hey edjog, no, not ALL of them were arrested for alleged bomb-making. Some were charged with burning a ski lodge in Co. ... sabatoging cell-phone towers ... other things (not all the info. has been released to the gen. public, yet). And I disagree with you about the bombs, but that's prob. too big of a topic to get into now (I'll save the "internal bickering" over tactics for later, maybe). Sufficeth to say, any RESPONSIBLE act of resistance, in my view, needs to be supported. And I think their actions qualify. Anyway, I only posted the link to show how far our gov. will go (and how much money they're willing to spend; Anna, a 20 yr. old, was paid 75,000 per yr. to be an informant) to spy on the general public. We'd like to think Cointelpro and all that is in the past, but we'd better think again. Big Brother IS watching.
Ah! Was she involved in that incident you're trying to raise awareness about at yours?
I read it was $75K for the 2 years. Not that that makes it any better, but it smacks of something fishy. I mean, it doesn't seem like much for such a dedicated and potentially dangerous task.
Yeah, responsible. Bombs have a nasty habit of throwing debris and who knows who might happen along just at the wrong moment? I can't support the destruction of mobile phone masts either. There's a lot of rubbish talked about the effects of mobile phone transmissions, but no solid evidence to back any of it up.
If people are genuinely concerned about a potential risk, the answer is not to stop them going up, it's to have more and smaller cells, so that the strength of the transmissions is weaker from each. Public access mobile communications is an essential part of our potential power. Big Brother is watching: we need to be able to respond by watching them and flexible effective deployment. DV Cam's can be confiscated, mobile phone cam pix/video can be sent immediately to sympathisers elsewhere.
One tries pocketpunk, in between the whinging, one tries, eh? Did you send the emails? I'll be asking to be CC'd in the loop so we can keep an eye on what developes.
Hey edjog, Just a few things: Yeah, she was involved in the incident I wrote about on my blog. You said: it doesn't seem like much for such a dedicated and potentially dangerous task.
One: sounds to me like all that fear and paranoia propoganda is getting through. If you knew the people involved (more than the mainstream media wants you to know), you'd know that THEY were the only ones taking any risks--not the informant. Two: I think we've got different standards for income. Not too many 20 yr. olds I know can't be bought for that amount. (I am a teacher, though; that's alot of money to me).
You said: There's a lot of rubbish talked about the effects of mobile phone transmissions, but no solid evidence to back any of it up.
One, I think there's plenty of evidence. Once you look at the research compiled by scientists outside the cell phone industry, it's pretty compelling. Two, that's not the issue. The issue is what the towers are doing to migratory birds celltowers I know to most people it isn't worth sacrificing a little inconvenience to save a few million lowly animals, but....
You said: Yeah, responsible. Bombs have a nasty habit of throwing debris and who knows who might happen along just at the wrong moment? True, that's why they have to be used responsibly, but 'responsibly' doesn't mean "according to the rules" (or according to the dogma of non-violence) or "without any risk" (who knows who might walk in front of my car when I drive to work? And what if my traffic-disrupting protest causes a fatal accident?). It means that the rewards outweigh the potential costs, that it's well thought out, that you're informed about the potential consequences (both intended and unintended), that you're acting sans ego, that you've taken all possible precautions to prevent unwanted consequences, etc. etc. etc. etc. I don't have time to go into depth right now (leaving tomorrow for Mexico), but you've read my views on non-violence To Burn or not to Burn Civilian Casualties I think the system is pretty safe if they can rely on dissenters to do nothing but write letters and vote (although that's important, too). The establishment doesn't have nearly the same qualms our side does when it comes to the use of force. I certainly see where you're coming from, though, and this isn't an issue that should be taken lightly, and you're right to raise questions about it. Maybe we can elaborate our views when I get back from Mexico. It's an important discussion.
Take care, friend. I'll talk to ya in a month or so. Hasta luego!
I was thinking more of the risk of a beating or worse should she be discovered.
There's more short-band EM radiation leakage from a microwave oven than a phone signal. But hey, maybe there is a risk. So we should have less powerful transmitters covering much smaller areas. The masts wouldn't have to be so high in that case also. I'd prefer to see a mini-cell covering every other street lamp myself. Plus there is no reason why HDTV should be delivered by EM broadcast at all. It's recipients are fixed, better to use a fixed cable/fibre optic. Mobile communications should have the bandwidth to use and re-use within a computerised switching system the same as we have but with expanded capacity.
But this is not the cheapest solution, nor would it show return on investment until such times as our culture embraces the possibilities of hi-tech, rather than trying to make hi-tech fit our outdated societies. Only government is in a position to mandate such spending now and the elite are precisely the people who have the most to lose from rapid change: ergo, we will not see it, unless a forward thinking company can popularise cheap mobile comms & net access under the radar of the big players.
There's nothing that can be achieved with a small bomb that can't be done much less riskily with the intelligent and diligent use of a large hammer, unless there's someone to stop you. If there's someone there, a bomb is an unacceptible risk. D/A for sure, but we can't defeat The Man with His methods, which would include the dismissal of risk to someone's life in pursuit of an higher ideal. We cannot challenge for power, we must challenge power itself, by demonstrating a viable alternative.
Hasta luego indeed, y Soy celoso! Have a good one!
1/2/06 00:15
Anonymous said...
i realize that shane is off to sunnier and warmer climates, and is not here to contribute to the dialogue, but i could not agree more with your opinions on the use of violence to achieve an end edjog...i have never been a violent sort, being timid and runty in my youth, and possessing a glass jaw, and while i have contemplated the use of violence against those who have wronged me, i was never sufficiently motivated to carry those fantasies out...i much prefer the use of a larger hammer for my goals, a la the "spiking" of old growth trees to deter the whole-scale harvesting of forests that goes on in my country...my feeling is that once such tactics are well-known, it is much easier to fuck-around with heads by putting warning labels on the trees...how many loggers carry around a metal detector to tell for sure whether the tree is full of nails or not??? and none is equipped with devices to remove any nails that might be there...why bother? find another tree to cut down...
in regards to cell phones and towers, i am a luddite in that regard and do not own a cell phone, but i appreciate the need for such types of communication and your idea about smaller transmitters more widely spread has much merit...i also do not agree that towers have such impact on birds as described...at the very least, such towers should be installed out of the way of migratory paths...such precaution would be good for the economy, since it would employ people whose job it is to protect the environment...
there is much controversy here in the US about the use of windmills to generate electricity...in fact, a proposed project to install such devices in the ocean shallows around Cape Cod is encountering much resistance for the reasons of impact to birds (a case of a valid enviromental concern being turned against those who hold that concern dear), but more insidiously, for the reason that it will "destroy the view" and be bad for the economy because the tourists won't come to spend their money anymore...i say, hang the tourists, they have done more damage by loving beautiful places to death than any that might be inflicted on birds...
2/2/06 12:37
some_maineiac said...
goddammit, edjog there is either a bug in your template or I am not following the proper procedure when previewing comments...
Hey maineiac, haven't touched the template for a bit, apart from to add a couple of links: nothing to do with comments. See if it persists eh? I might have accidentally fucked something up, but i've got backups on file anyway.
re: violence It's a toughie. I mean, if i was at a demo and people were getting hurt by over-brutal policing, i might well wade in, it's the kind of thing i've done before. But the thing with bombs or any drastic measures like that is that you are not able to adequately predict the potential harm that could occur and the thing happens so quickly that there's no time to alter the course of action once it's begun. I know all too well what happens when i start justifying risk to people for some purpose: people get hurt.
The other thing of course is that carrying a bomb around is not only potentially directly hazardous, but also leaves you open to be sent to prison for considerably longer than the worst you might expect for even a stolen hammer. Which is bad enough, but when you start taking bigger and bigger risks with your safety and freedom, your level of desperation mounts, your thinking becomes steadily less clear. Like i've said before on here, nobody thinks that they'll become a nutter, but through a series of tiny steps, each one only a tiny bit more out there than the last; barking mad is still where we end up. All for the want of not stopping and looking at first principles again. In this case they would seem simple: bombs are fucking dangerous; get them the fuck away from me!
Glad to see you back BTW.
2/2/06 14:17
some_maineiac said...
o, i've been around, just lurking recently...you are on my daily read
re:bug, if i make a comment as my screen name and then preview comments as i did here and edit, then click "publish" i have to remember to set identity to "other" again...other blogs have "publish comment" on previewed screen and that may be the disconnect...
Yeah, i've noticed this blog has no "publish comment" link at the bottom of the preview. It might be that feature was coded after i set DLA up and needs an extra code snippet. I'll look into it.
3/2/06 00:06
So DLA's, in the comments of my last post Michael the tubthumper drew attention to the plight of Rosemarie Jackowski, an American journalist in her 60's who has not only been convicted of "Disorderly Conduct with Intent to Harass and Annoy" for peacefully demonstrating against the war in Iraq (she joined with others to halt traffic so that drivers would see their placards; her case is under appeal), but is also a litigant against the corrupt State of Vermont after being almost killed in a traffic accident involving a state owned truck, whilst on the way to visit her 89 year old sick mother. The State's Attourney's office have been giving her a rough ride and it has taken about 6 years to get her case heard. Check it.
I'll urge you all to go there, read the article, consider just how disorderly, harassing or annoying this unarmed woman in her 60's (pictured above) can actually be, what relevance to the fact that she was run into by a logging truck her political stance, her divorce 35 years ago or her brutal rape 40 years ago have, and email Dick Sears, Chairman of the State Judiciary Committee and Gaye Symington, Speaker of the State House, to let them know that the eyes of the world are watching. I've also emailed Ms. Jackowski herself to let her know that she is heard: it seemed the proper thing to do; i'll bet she must feel very out on a limb right now. If you are a US citizen, you can also contact Governor of Vermont, Jim Douglas, through his website. In case anyone is stuck for what to write, here is what i said:Dear [Dick Sears/Gaye Symington/Jim Douglas],
the treatment of Ms. Rosemarie Jackowski by the State of Vermont is a calumny against The Constitution of the USA.
Be in no doubt that the whole world knows of this and similar hypocrisy. Do you find it at all surprising then to find US foreign policy the subject of open derision?
Quite apart from the morality of the issues relating to Ms. Jackowski and others like her, I'll ask you to consider this: with a $650 billion Trade Deficit, the US cannot afford much more war. If you want to promote US interests abroad, you will have to address the culture of institutionalised corruption at home, sooner or later.
Why not start now? Be bold. Be a true patriot. We're watching.
[insert your name]UPDATE (while i was typing this): Ms. Jackowski replied to my email thus:"Great letter. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I need all the help I can get. rosemarie"So there we are, she needs our support. Do it. Do it now.
UPDATE (04:05 2006/02/01 GMT): so Rosemarie emailed to say we can keep up with whatagwaan at Mickey Z's where she is a contributor. It's now in the TEXT LINKS also.
17 Comments
Close this windowThanks so much for taking the time post this important issue.
Rosemarie's plight today could so easily be yours or mine tomorrow.
She's a damn fine woman who deserves justice. I hope your fine readers will take a moment or two, as you have, to email these officials and make them aware of their views.
31/1/06 00:43
This kind of thing is going on everywhere in this country (a similar incident took place in Denver, recently). We REALLY need to put a stop to it. I'll write a letter first thing tomorrow morning.
31/1/06 01:31
Good man yerself, shane!
31/1/06 01:44
Another example of the police state we live in here: http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/01/332735.shtml
31/1/06 04:05
try that again:
Narc!
(just sent my letter, btw)
31/1/06 04:07
Hey shane, the link about the mysterious "AnnA"? Weren't those people arrested for some conspiracy to build a bomb though? For sure, she may have been instrumnetal in entrapping them to do it, but bomb making... once upon a time i might have been mad enough, not now.
There's just too many things that could go wrong, even if it was intended to be used against empty property. Much safer ways to destroy property i think, if i was minded to do such a thing.
31/1/06 04:55
Hey edjog, no, not ALL of them were arrested for alleged bomb-making. Some were charged with burning a ski lodge in Co. ... sabatoging cell-phone towers ... other things (not all the info. has been released to the gen. public, yet). And I disagree with you about the bombs, but that's prob. too big of a topic to get into now (I'll save the "internal bickering" over tactics for later, maybe). Sufficeth to say, any RESPONSIBLE act of resistance, in my view, needs to be supported. And I think their actions qualify.
Anyway, I only posted the link to show how far our gov. will go (and how much money they're willing to spend; Anna, a 20 yr. old, was paid 75,000 per yr. to be an informant) to spy on the general public. We'd like to think Cointelpro and all that is in the past, but we'd better think again. Big Brother IS watching.
31/1/06 06:24
Ah! Was she involved in that incident you're trying to raise awareness about at yours?
I read it was $75K for the 2 years. Not that that makes it any better, but it smacks of something fishy. I mean, it doesn't seem like much for such a dedicated and potentially dangerous task.
Yeah, responsible. Bombs have a nasty habit of throwing debris and who knows who might happen along just at the wrong moment? I can't support the destruction of mobile phone masts either. There's a lot of rubbish talked about the effects of mobile phone transmissions, but no solid evidence to back any of it up.
If people are genuinely concerned about a potential risk, the answer is not to stop them going up, it's to have more and smaller cells, so that the strength of the transmissions is weaker from each. Public access mobile communications is an essential part of our potential power. Big Brother is watching: we need to be able to respond by watching them and flexible effective deployment. DV Cam's can be confiscated, mobile phone cam pix/video can be sent immediately to sympathisers elsewhere.
31/1/06 06:57
edjog you are such a diamond...
31/1/06 11:16
One tries pocketpunk, in between the whinging, one tries, eh? Did you send the emails? I'll be asking to be CC'd in the loop so we can keep an eye on what developes.
31/1/06 16:25
Hey edjog,
Just a few things:
Yeah, she was involved in the incident I wrote about on my blog.
You said:
it doesn't seem like much for such a dedicated and potentially dangerous task.
One: sounds to me like all that fear and paranoia propoganda is getting through. If you knew the people involved (more than the mainstream media wants you to know), you'd know that THEY were the only ones taking any risks--not the informant. Two: I think we've got different standards for income. Not too many 20 yr. olds I know can't be bought for that amount. (I am a teacher, though; that's alot of money to me).
You said:
There's a lot of rubbish talked about the effects of mobile phone transmissions, but no solid evidence to back any of it up.
One, I think there's plenty of evidence. Once you look at the research compiled by scientists outside the cell phone industry, it's pretty compelling. Two, that's not the issue. The issue is what the towers are doing to migratory birds celltowers I know to most people it isn't worth sacrificing a little inconvenience to save a few million lowly animals, but....
You said:
Yeah, responsible. Bombs have a nasty habit of throwing debris and who knows who might happen along just at the wrong moment?
True, that's why they have to be used responsibly, but 'responsibly' doesn't mean "according to the rules" (or according to the dogma of non-violence) or "without any risk" (who knows who might walk in front of my car when I drive to work? And what if my traffic-disrupting protest causes a fatal accident?). It means that the rewards outweigh the potential costs, that it's well thought out, that you're informed about the potential consequences (both intended and unintended), that you're acting sans ego, that you've taken all possible precautions to prevent unwanted consequences, etc. etc. etc. etc.
I don't have time to go into depth right now (leaving tomorrow for Mexico), but you've read my views on non-violence To Burn or not to Burn
Civilian Casualties
I think the system is pretty safe if they can rely on dissenters to do nothing but write letters and vote (although that's important, too). The establishment doesn't have nearly the same qualms our side does when it comes to the use of force.
I certainly see where you're coming from, though, and this isn't an issue that should be taken lightly, and you're right to raise questions about it. Maybe we can elaborate our views when I get back from Mexico. It's an important discussion.
Take care, friend. I'll talk to ya in a month or so.
Hasta luego!
31/1/06 17:12
I was thinking more of the risk of a beating or worse should she be discovered.
There's more short-band EM radiation leakage from a microwave oven than a phone signal. But hey, maybe there is a risk. So we should have less powerful transmitters covering much smaller areas. The masts wouldn't have to be so high in that case also. I'd prefer to see a mini-cell covering every other street lamp myself. Plus there is no reason why HDTV should be delivered by EM broadcast at all. It's recipients are fixed, better to use a fixed cable/fibre optic. Mobile communications should have the bandwidth to use and re-use within a computerised switching system the same as we have but with expanded capacity.
But this is not the cheapest solution, nor would it show return on investment until such times as our culture embraces the possibilities of hi-tech, rather than trying to make hi-tech fit our outdated societies. Only government is in a position to mandate such spending now and the elite are precisely the people who have the most to lose from rapid change: ergo, we will not see it, unless a forward thinking company can popularise cheap mobile comms & net access under the radar of the big players.
There's nothing that can be achieved with a small bomb that can't be done much less riskily with the intelligent and diligent use of a large hammer, unless there's someone to stop you. If there's someone there, a bomb is an unacceptible risk. D/A for sure, but we can't defeat The Man with His methods, which would include the dismissal of risk to someone's life in pursuit of an higher ideal. We cannot challenge for power, we must challenge power itself, by demonstrating a viable alternative.
Hasta luego indeed, y Soy celoso! Have a good one!
1/2/06 00:15
i realize that shane is off to sunnier and warmer climates, and is not here to contribute to the dialogue, but i could not agree more with your opinions on the use of violence to achieve an end edjog...i have never been a violent sort, being timid and runty in my youth, and possessing a glass jaw, and while i have contemplated the use of violence against those who have wronged me, i was never sufficiently motivated to carry those fantasies out...i much prefer the use of a larger hammer for my goals, a la the "spiking" of old growth trees to deter the whole-scale harvesting of forests that goes on in my country...my feeling is that once such tactics are well-known, it is much easier to fuck-around with heads by putting warning labels on the trees...how many loggers carry around a metal detector to tell for sure whether the tree is full of nails or not??? and none is equipped with devices to remove any nails that might be there...why bother? find another tree to cut down...
in regards to cell phones and towers, i am a luddite in that regard and do not own a cell phone, but i appreciate the need for such types of communication and your idea about smaller transmitters more widely spread has much merit...i also do not agree that towers have such impact on birds as described...at the very least, such towers should be installed out of the way of migratory paths...such precaution would be good for the economy, since it would employ people whose job it is to protect the environment...
there is much controversy here in the US about the use of windmills to generate electricity...in fact, a proposed project to install such devices in the ocean shallows around Cape Cod is encountering much resistance for the reasons of impact to birds (a case of a valid enviromental concern being turned against those who hold that concern dear), but more insidiously, for the reason that it will "destroy the view" and be bad for the economy because the tourists won't come to spend their money anymore...i say, hang the tourists, they have done more damage by loving beautiful places to death than any that might be inflicted on birds...
2/2/06 12:37
goddammit, edjog there is either a bug in your template or I am not following the proper procedure when previewing comments...
my opinion above...
2/2/06 12:40
Hey maineiac, haven't touched the template for a bit, apart from to add a couple of links: nothing to do with comments. See if it persists eh? I might have accidentally fucked something up, but i've got backups on file anyway.
re: violence
It's a toughie. I mean, if i was at a demo and people were getting hurt by over-brutal policing, i might well wade in, it's the kind of thing i've done before. But the thing with bombs or any drastic measures like that is that you are not able to adequately predict the potential harm that could occur and the thing happens so quickly that there's no time to alter the course of action once it's begun. I know all too well what happens when i start justifying risk to people for some purpose: people get hurt.
The other thing of course is that carrying a bomb around is not only potentially directly hazardous, but also leaves you open to be sent to prison for considerably longer than the worst you might expect for even a stolen hammer. Which is bad enough, but when you start taking bigger and bigger risks with your safety and freedom, your level of desperation mounts, your thinking becomes steadily less clear. Like i've said before on here, nobody thinks that they'll become a nutter, but through a series of tiny steps, each one only a tiny bit more out there than the last; barking mad is still where we end up. All for the want of not stopping and looking at first principles again. In this case they would seem simple: bombs are fucking dangerous; get them the fuck away from me!
Glad to see you back BTW.
2/2/06 14:17
o, i've been around, just lurking recently...you are on my daily read
re:bug, if i make a comment as my screen name and then preview comments as i did here and edit, then click "publish" i have to remember to set identity to "other" again...other blogs have "publish comment" on previewed screen and that may be the disconnect...
2/2/06 15:15
Yeah, i've noticed this blog has no "publish comment" link at the bottom of the preview. It might be that feature was coded after i set DLA up and needs an extra code snippet. I'll look into it.
3/2/06 00:06