Excellent. And what will the bankers be doing?

And I want an independent commission of inquiry in to the fact the politicians lie, cheat, steal from the taxpayer - and never, ever, ever get punished properly!

These riots started because the police operated a shoot-to-kill operation in which they killed Mark Duggan. People in the area were angered at this police killing and protested. That protest developed into the riots and looting. Although loooting became the big issue it was secondary.

If the police had not opened fire and killed Duggan there would have been no riot, and no looting.

Politicians and police disregard the facts and routinely lie about such incidents. This killing was compounded when the police IPCC lied about the incident, as the police lied about the Menendz killing and the killing of Tomlinson. This is so typical of our Sick Society.

Politicians and police should not simply be considering riot control and jailing as many kids as possible, but they should be looking at the police shoot-to-kill strategy. Solve that problem and there next riot will be avoided, not need controlling.

Let me say it again so there is no misunderstanding. This riot was directly caused by the police.

First!(?)

Will this be the same kind of listening excercise as the NHS? If the Gov dont know what's wrong this country, then what possible chance do we have of restoring some semblance of a civilised country?

Ignore the problem. Just beat up the perpetrators and hope it will go away. Standard Tory thinking.

You get the feeling Clegg is like the summer intern who is instructed to go out and buy a pot of "elbow grease" or some other non-existent item just to get him out of the way.

Finally, a reason not to be ashamed of my libdem vote

Damn you @blairsnemisis!

A Downing Street source said: "We are coming to the view that there is a case for community engagement about what happened and why."

A true insight into how dumb this government is. Even the blindingly obvious takes time to slowly sink in.

This is exactly the kind of sensible, level headed policy making that you get as the result of coalition government, rather than the extremist, knee-jerk, soundbite, Murdoch led politics of the old, confrontational two party Lab-Con knockabout model.

Go Clegg! Well done.

Will it work, who knows? They should be punished that is for sure.

Any chance I could get to look a few high ranking bankers in the eye round my way? No, didn't think so.

Now I wanted to say something about the fact that we have lived over these last two or three summers with agony and we have seen our cities going up in flames. And I would be the first to say that I am still committed to militant, powerful, massive, non-violence as the most potent weapon in grappling with the problem from a direct action point of view. I’m absolutely convinced that a riot merely intensifies the fears of the white community while relieving the guilt. And I feel that we must always work with an effective, powerful weapon and method that brings about tangible results. But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

Martin Luther King

Can the bankers look at people in the eye and admit their crime and be made to repay their debts too?

And I quote:

"The deputy PM will tell a press conference in London: "I want offenders to be punished – and to change their ways"

Why will they? What is going to motivate them to do that? The thought of more community work?

Why is there a willingness to abandon the idea of cause and effect?

@nemesis

I suppose the bankers will be going to work and trying to repair some of the damage that they did, while paying quite a lot of tax (even if not as much as we might like).

PeteLoud

Let me say it again so there is no misunderstanding. This riot was directly caused by the police.

I agree (and that's not to excuse anything). I predict another one at the first attempt to evict a vaguely well liked family from a council estate. I'm sure the neighbours will be glad to be rid of some of the evictees, but the first popular family to be literally dragged from their home willl cause violence again. It's obvious.

http://nathanieltapley.com/2011/08/10/an-open-letter-to-david-camerons-parents/

Is this "public engagement exercise" going to be similar to Lansley's listening exercise on the NHS? Will this listening exercise take place in front of some pretend graffiti in a youth cent

...centre in Cameron's consituency?

Can the bankers look at people in the eye and admit their crime and be made to repay their debts too?

Alonsofan, I remember distinctly that they sat in front of a committee in the HoC and said that they were very sorry. Isn't that enough? What do you want ... blood?

Hm.

Actually ....

Nick Clegg says: "They should have to see for themselves the consequences of their actions and they should be put to work cleaning up the damage and destruction they have caused so they don't do it again."

Sorry, Nick, but I can't see your empty, made-for-TV threats cutting any ice with the rioters and looters. Besides, if they were put in prison, where they should be, they are clearly not in a position to clean up the damage.

Nick, as a politician you're a disaster. Leave these matters to the police and to the courts. You should spend your time doing something more suitable: like moving yourself back into the real world.

Great, first you tell them they're scum and bad people and feckless etc. Then you ask them to engage. Now, why do I have the feeling this is not going to work? Great thinking, Cameron!
If you want people to make a new start, don't reinforce the negative self-image!

Yes, but have you signed a pledge for this Nick?

alonsofan
16 August 2011 8:36AM
Can the bankers look at people in the eye and admit their crime and be made to repay their debts too?

Would like to know what crimes bankers committed - they are also paying back any debts (note, not bail-outs) where they were given and paying vast amounts of tax and providing 000s of jobs.

How are you contributing ?

Good work by Miliband and Clegg.

Cameron might as well go back to Tuscany.

He will say that people convicted of crimes last week should have to "look their victims in the eye".

Clegg and Cameron: why don’t you guys go and meet the victims of your policies in the areas where the riots happened; look into their eyes and be ashamed of yourselves. If it is fair play so you must accept this.

Will it work, who knows? They should be punished that is for sure.

Can we apply the same to bankers and upper class who live thieving on ordinary people's work?

Criminal justice system on the hoof.

Don't be surprised if after the results of any enquiry the findings reveal a causal link between unemployment and lack of discipline.

In the meantime Niall Ferguson writes a new history of the workhouse this year, which gets picked up by Philip Blond and shown really to be a blue socialist panacea prior to an introduction as policy at the 2014 Tory party Conference.

(Just watch there will be some on here who will praise this!)

"He will say that people convicted of crimes last week should have to "look their victims in the eye"."

Fine Mr Clegg. Let's start with you then shall we - line up every single young person in the country and look then straight in the eye and say sorry and then give them back their EMA, take away the increased tuition fees and restore their hope in the future whilst removing yourself from the coalition thus bringing about the end of this government and then perhaps - just perhaps - they might forgive you.

You don't need an inquiry Clegg man. Just take a look the map.

http://e1.newcastle.edu.au/coffee/maps/UK_riots_unemployment_2011.cfm

Why does it take the aussies to point this out fool ?

So we're looking to the USA, where gang culture is endemic and the police are armed to the teeth, for inspiration.
No chance we could look to countries where gang culture is almost non existent inequality is much reduced and social cohesion exists - i.e most of Europe.

If ever you doubted that this coalition's aim is to turn us into the 51st state, you need doubt no more. If you can afford it, move to Europe or buy into a gated community with private security. If not, keep reading your Daily Mail - you'll feel better while you're being burgled.

i swear my dogs are more intelligent than the 'leaders'.
unless we, the people see justice in the upper echelons, seeking justice for these guys means nothing.
i want to see the bankers on the stand.
i want to see the david kelly thing re-opened.
i want blair to be charged for lying us into a war that has left a country bankrupt and scarred beyond redemption.
i want them out of libya now.
recognizing palestine would also be cool, but when norway was about to do that - ooops.

until such time as those in power are accountable for their actions, why should we slovenly low lives be responsible for ours.

actually i take that back about the dogs, even the earthworms in the garden have a greater capacity for social cohesion and usefulness than these genteel slobs.

Cameron might as well go back to Tuscany.

No, no, we don't want him to pollute Tuscany. He is your hazardous waste, bettera found a hazardous waste processing plant for him...

I wonder how many posters will reject this idea, not because they don't agree with it, but because they fill their days by hating Clegg?

I'm sure they'll make it blindingly obvious.

We seem to have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity here to kill two birds with one stone. It just takes a little reverse thinking. How about we put these kids to work in the banks and in Parliament, alongside and mentored by the very people they (unconsciously) modelled their grab-it-and-run criminality on. It would give the bankers and politicians something useful to do for a few months (not least with regard to teaching the oiks how to speak properly), and - by showing the looters how to loot above the law - would take them out of the criminal justice system.

jefferd

Would like to know what crimes bankers committed - they are also paying back any debts (note, not bail-outs) where they were given and paying vast amounts of tax and providing 000s of jobs.

How are you contributing ?

They made bad investments, extracted the equity in advance in the form of salaries and derivatives and then needed help (bailout or very cheap emergency loans from Fed Reserve, Bank of England, etc) when the investments went bad. Everyone else in the country pays the price of the reduced tax take from a recession directly caused by their behaviour. Why do you give them so much credit?

Cameron is coming over as those extreme rightwing American Bigots,
who yell and shout their hatred of "moral decline", and rake the money in
by starting lots of "crusades" to fight the decling of family values, single mothers,
the poor corrupting good christain values, and must not forget their
primary "pet crusades", racial hatred and racism, wrapped up in fascism
and neonazism.

Yes, Cameron comes over like these god fearing American rightwingers.

Clegg to unveil 'payback scheme' for rioters

What a good idea, why not extend it to bankers, corrupt media moguls, tax avoiding multinationals and anyone with an offshore account for tax avoidance purposes.

behemot

are you Polly Toynbee?

PeteLoud - the police did not cause the riot the people who rioted caused the riot.

Examiner - "Just beat up the perpetrators and hope it will go away " ?? what should happen to them then ? Why should they not help clean up the mess they created ? Why shouldnt they have to explain their no doubt deep and complex motives to the people whose flats they burnt down and whose businesses they destroyed ? Or the the parents whose sons were killed in Birmingham ?

Why is it typical Tory thinking to want some justice ? Please tell us what you think should happen to the people who caused some of the more violent acts we saw ? What is your solution and what do you say to those people whose homes and livelihood are now gone ?

PeteLoud
16 August 2011 8:32AM
These riots started because the police operated a shoot-to-kill operation in which they killed Mark Duggan. People in the area were angered at this police killing and protested. That protest developed into the riots and looting. Although loooting became the big issue it was secondary........etc
Let me say it again so there is no misunderstanding. This riot was directly caused by the police.

mm interesting point of view but complete tosh.

Nick I will agree to your idea as long as you come and look me in the eyes and tell me you arn't a liar...which you know you can't do.

but nick, the riots were a payback scheme
one of many to come...

Wait - is this instead of the 6-months-for-stealing-water sentences or as well as?

So basically Clegg is going to announce double punishment?

This is ridiculous.

The courts are already 'bending over backwards to bend defendants over forwards' (gotta love Tom Sharpe!). This, it turns out, is not exactly in the spirit of the law, but is certainly in the spirit of the tory-led government.

After they've done their stretch for taking a bottle of water etc Clegg seems to be suggesting they get a second dose.

This has got sod all to do with reconciliatio. It's just hot air from a clueless government.

Can the bankers look at people in the eye and admit their crime and be made to repay their debts too?

Which crimes are those then?

@desmondsusu

"I swear my dogs are more intelligent than 'the leaders' "

although I do believe Cleggie has some experience in the bone-burying dept.....

Why does it take somebody to broker a deal. Surely this should have been done before any knee jerk response from Cameron about how he's going to fix our "sick society." How can he talk about a solution to a problem that has not yet been officially identified?
What happens when the commission comes back and says that corrupt and lying politicians, corrupt and lying senior policemen and a morally corrupt financial system may have all contributed to the unrest. Will anything be done or will it be still entirely be the fault of the poor and unemployed?

We're coming to the view that some sort of engagement exercise would be useful.

Because our current strategy of rabid hysteria has failed to divert the public from recognizing that the government is incompetent, corrupt and has stood bye and done nothing about the looting engaged in by banks and politicians which make the estimated £100 million costs of the riots look like loose change.

Conantheballbaering

What a good idea, why not extend it to bankers, corrupt media moguls, tax avoiding multinationals and anyone with an offshore account for tax avoidance purposes.

speaking of which:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fbi-widens-its-us-inquiry-into-news-corp-beyond-911-hacking-2337841.html

Key quote from the story (published yesterday):

The move comes as MPs in Westminster prepare to consider tomorrow the release of new documents related to hacking, which one former minister described as "dynamite".

Us Guardianistas might get our daily hate today in spades :)