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28 April 2011

Troops stand guard at Camp Delta in Guantanamo Bay. (Reuters)

Gitmo, Wikileaks and a window on tyranny

116 Comments

Antony Loewenstein

Antony Loewenstein

The Wikileaks-released Guantanamo Bay files provide an invaluable insight into the mindset of the US and its allies since September 11.

An infrastructure of torture was implemented, a practice still defended by the US government today, to allegedly protect the homeland from future attack.

The result was hundreds of innocent men kidnapped and incarcerated without trial – a “legal and moral disaster”, according to The New York Times - and President Obama continues shielding torturers in the previous and current administrations. He has pledged to Look Forward and Not Back. The current President has merely extended the Bush administration’s indefinite detention regime for so-called terror suspects.

Salon’s Glenn Greenwald unleashed necessary fury about this reality:

The idea of trusting the government to imprison people for life based on secret, untested evidence never reviewed by a court should repel any decent or minimally rational person, but these newly released files demonstrate how warped is this indefinite detention policy specifically.

Yet this authoritarian impulse to believe untested claims by the US government is exactly what many in the media have been doing for years, repeating without question deliberately leaked intelligence files on the “worst of the worst” prisoners.

One local example is The Australian columnist Chris Kenny, failed Liberal politician and former chief of staff to former Foreign Minister Alexander Downer. During a Twitter conversation on Wednesday with Paul Barrett, a former Secretary of Australian Departments of Defence and Primary Industries & Energy, Kenny wrote, “You're arguing to set free people who have murdered thousands” when Barrett asked why the US refused to conduct fair and open trials for individuals who had never faced justice.

In Kenny’s worldview, the American military has smeared hundreds of Muslims as terrorists and that’s good enough for him. The fact that the Wikileaks file shows the vast majority of Guantanamo Bay detainees had no connection to September 11 or terrorism can be ignored.

This has been the default position of the vast bulk of the corporate press since 9/11. In Australia, especially the Murdoch press has smeared former Guantanamo Bay inmates David Hicks and Mamdouh Habib. This continued with Downer who called both men “terrible, terrible people”, perhaps because he fears what an independent investigation may find in regards to his own government’s alleged complicity in their long incarceration.

Australian journalist Sally Neighbour published an analysis a few days ago that inadvertently undermined her own paper’s years of misleading reporting:

The dossiers on Mamdouh Habib and David Hicks reveal the so-called evidence used to justify their incarceration to be a confused mishmash replete with glaring factual errors and inconsistencies, principally based on self-incrimination that would not be admitted in a proper court of law and tainted by the inclusion of information obtained under torture.

What Neighbour conveniently omitted from her report were the journalists and editors who have dined for years on rehashing US government released propaganda against Hicks and Habib, including The Australian, and smearing them constantly. Clearly media accountability was not on the agenda for a decade of establishment stenography. Today’s Australian editorial begrudgingly acknowledges the torture suffered by Habib and Hicks but issues no apology for spending years accusing them both of terrorism.

Thankfully this week’s Sydney Morning Herald editorially called the treatment of Hicks and Habib by its rightful name, torture.

It took one of the world’s more diligent and un-embedded journalists on Guantanamo Bay inmates, Andy Worthington, to unpack the Wikileaks revelations and highlight the decade of ignoring legal precedent for the Cuban and American black hole down which countless men were tortured and housed.

Reading Worthington’s copious work over the years makes a reader wonder why more mainstream reporters didn’t investigate the prison camp with a very critical eye. Is it because, as a former Bush official said, too many US journalists wanted to be seen as “patriotic” and protect America’s “interests”. Truth came a distant third. Guantanamo Bay was a place where psychological experiments and torture was common-place.

But what of the latest Wikileaks revelations themselves which, for the record, should be seen as merely US official opinion rather than actual factual reporting? We learn that the US allowed a number of repressive country’s intelligence services access to Guantanamo Bay detainees, including officials from China, Russia and Saudi Arabia.

This highly prejudicial process was also committed by Australia during the Howard government when it emerged in 2005 that Chinese officials were allowed to interrogate Chinese asylum seekers in Sydney’s Villawood detention centre.

In the years after 9/11 (and also before), America was kidnapping terror suspects and sending them through extraordinary rendition to authoritarian states where these prisoners would be tortured for information. The latest Guantanamo Bay files confirm that Washington was also asking repressive regimes to assist them in identifying people as well as probably threatening their families back home.

The Wikileaks files detail America’s treatment of Al Jazeera cameraman Sami al-Hajj who languished without charge for six years in Guantanamo Bay. It can now be confirmed that he was only held in the prison camp because the Bush administration hated the Qatar-based news network and wanted to gain more information about its alleged connection to terrorism. It is a chilling warning to media companies the world over.

The response of the Obama administration to the latest document dump was typically Orwellian. The lawyers representing detainees at Guantanamo Bay were told, even after the mainstream press had widely disseminated the Wikileaks documents, that the files remained legally classified. The New York Times perfectly highlighted the issue:

Joseph Margulies, a Northwestern law professor who represents Abu Zubaydah, the detainee accused of being a terrorist facilitator who was waterboarded by the Central Intelligence Agency, said he could not comment on the newly disclosed assessment of his client, which is posted on The Times Web site.“Everyone else can talk about it,” Mr. Margulies said. “I can’t talk about it.”

Although Wikileaks itself was not a major focus of this release (only briefly, anyway), it again proved the power of the whistle-blowing website. Western news organisations were forced to collaborate with an organisation with a relatively small staff and budget. The obvious question remains; why didn’t The New York Times, The Washington Post or The Guardian receive the scoop with their own investigations?

If former US army soldier Bradley Manning was the leaker of this information – President Obama has already said Manning is guilty, undoubtedly affecting any potential trial - he has given the world an invaluable insight into a superpower’s tyranny; he is a patriot in the truest sense of the word.


Antony Loewenstein is an independent journalist and author of My Israel Question and The Blogging Revolution.

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Comments (116)

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  • dalma :

    02 May 2011 11:39:54am

    This article highlights the hypocrisy of our Allies, and their double-jeopardy messages. They preach one thing, and deliver the opposite.
    American's keep referring to their Constitution & Washington, with reverential pride. Their Bill of Rights, when they deny common Justice to their Colored, Hispanic,and mix-races. Gaining employment in the States, is just impossible unless you are white, a veteran, and have a valid birth certificate. Yes, Barack Obama even.
    Their Right to bear Arms, guarantees every house is a fortress, bristling with automatic weapons, RPG's, and machine guns.

    Worst, is their 8th Amendment; " cruel and unusual punishment ". Eg: Guantanamo, San Quentin, Quantico, Hell's island,etc.

    They still practice the horrific Death Penalty, which includes gassing, injection, and electrocution etc and invites the public, people,journalist,goggle-eyed, to witness the death throes of those fortunate enough to escape death row ( some 12-15 years duration )
    Brad Manning is tipped to face the firing squad. Paradoxically, the squad is issued with one bullet each, and told it could be a blank, therefore of the ten man squad, anyone will have a clear conscience ? How queer is that ?
    The much maligned wikileaks is a source of embarrassment to the Pentagon, CIA, FBI and every Law enforcement Institution Stateside. How commendable is that ?

  • sea mendez :

    01 May 2011 9:12:12pm

    Once again Wikileaks smashes the twin columns of left wing conspiricy theorists.

    The latest leaked intelligence shows the US really is pursing violent Islamists in Afghanistan. It shows violent Islamists are doing their level best to get at the US. Oil pipelines are once again entirely absent from the material. The US government is once again shown to be palpably nervous about 9/11 style attacks.

    The second column of the conspiracy theory is that the media is conspiring not to tell us the truth. Once again we find all the the key ideas raised by the leaks have been covered in the mainstream, often years in advance of the leaks.

    For example leaks 'reveal' a terrorist cyanide gas attack plot. This specific idea was actually revealed in Ron Suskind's 'The One Percent Doctrine' which was published five years ago. Ron Suskind has won Pulitzer Prizes. His book reached number three on the New York Times best seller list.

    I can't believe the likes of Pilger and Lowenstein. They continue to hone in minor details of the leaks. They continue to claim the leaks prove what they have been saying all along.

    But the substantial part of the leaks utterly destroy their theories.

      • Hadron Collider :

        02 May 2011 8:50:40am

        Don't demolish their pillars sea. Otherwise we'll have no-one to poke fun at.

  • undecided ®:

    29 Apr 2011 3:26:22pm

    The USA is a very puzzling place. If you believe their rhetoric, it is the democracy beacon of the world.

    But ,the US banking industry has just caused a world GFC through fraudulent mortgage lending and sale of fraudulent financial products. And yet, not one of the big firms is yet charged with fraud.

    A lot of the government officials in high office have come into government straight from the big banks in both Democrat and Republican govts. Might this have some bearing on the fact that the banks are making a killing right now while ordinary people over there are haveing a pretty tough time ?

    And it is also interesting that the military are pretty much openly torturing the guy who leaked the memos to Wikileaks. They must feel pretty safe to do this.

    Guantanamo Bay still operates just as it did under Bush. Has Obama been brainwashed, or did he lie just to get into office ? Very odd!

      • Actually :

        30 Apr 2011 10:32:22am



        Don't know if you've noticed it, but the more severe sovereign dept crisis in in Europe.

        And since 1991, the US economy has grown at about twie the rate of any country in Europe, and ahead of Japan and most of the former 'Tiger economies'.


        And that has not been over a low economic base like that of China or India - but as the largest economy in the world by far.


        The myth of the 'decline' of the US economy has to be the most oft repeated nonsense of our era.


  • Caps Lock is a give away :

    29 Apr 2011 1:47:14pm


    They hysterical levels of anti-Americanism in this thread are quite bizarre.


    I hate to break it to you, but to state categorically that the USA is "one of the most hypocritical countries on Earth" is irrational invective that's so distorted and over-the-top as to be weird in the extreme.


    Like, whatever the USA may or may not have done wrong at Guantanamo Bay, it could not possibly compare with the large scale, daily human rights abuses that occur in China, North Korea, Castro's Cuba and other "Peoples Democratic Republics".


    And lets not even get started on what presently happening in 'Socialist' Syria and Libya.


    Excuse me, but there is credible evidence that the Peoples Republic of North Korea dispenses with its dissident population by shoving large numbers of them into industrial scale gas chambers

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10791-2004Feb3.html


    China, for its part, excutes more prisoners each year than the rest of the world combined. Again, in the name of 'Socialism'.


    That's not to excuse any real abuses in Guantanamo Bay.


    But to put things into perspective, as another blogger has already observed, there are actually fewer people in custody in Guantanamo Bay than there are at Villawood refugee detention centre.


    Also, the fact that some of you are resorting to banging out your hysterics with the time-honoured symptom of TYPING every OTHER word IN CAPS further hints that things are getting a bit un-hinged here.


      • dubious the third :

        29 Apr 2011 5:54:17pm

        Do you understand the meaning of the word "hypocritical"?
        Socialist nations (ideally) have some "collective good" which they admit, sometimes restricts individual freedoms.
        Whereas, the US spruiks "freedom and democracy" and does the same thing.

          • Ministry of Truth :

            30 Apr 2011 10:34:14am



            Yes, comrade. Let me explain.

            Socialist hypocrisy is Good, whereas American hypocrisy is Bad.

            Simple.

            See?


      • pat :

        30 Apr 2011 6:46:39am

        Congratulations. The US is ahead of China, North Korea, Cuba, Syria, and Lybia. Is this the list of countries you would like the US grouped with?

  • Grassynoel :

    29 Apr 2011 12:36:52pm

    "This highly prejudicial process was also committed by Australia during the Howard government when it emerged in 2005 that Chinese officials were allowed to interrogate Chinese asylum seekers in Sydney’s Villawood detention centre."

    Not by Australia! By its government! A country and its government are NOT the same thing!

      • anote :

        03 May 2011 8:14:43am

        Governments can be distinguished from the people to varying degrees depending on the varying situations.

        In democratic countries like Australia such a distinction is very small. The government closely represents the people and what the government gets away with is very much the responsibility of the people.

  • Grassynoel :

    29 Apr 2011 12:33:36pm

    Why the hell do you people keep banging on about what Murdoch and his minions write, say or think in his papers?

    JUST IGNORE THEM. IT'S REALLY NOT THAT HARD.

      • Caps Lock is a give away :

        29 Apr 2011 2:20:07pm


        Rupert likes to wind them up. He feeds into their paranoia.

  • Breach of Peace :

    29 Apr 2011 10:57:39am

    Most free thinking individuals did not need the additional 'Guantanamo Bay files' as we have watched and read over the years in disgust, the profile and mindset of 'our friends' the Americans who are one of the most hypocritical countries on Earth. There is no rule of law with this Fascist country anymore as it has morphed into a police state and is continually creating tyrannies and dictatorships world wide of its dreaming of hegemony. Presidents are mere puppets for the New Corporate World Economic Order so aptly described by astute Australians in the 80's.

    There have been many warnings from George Washington to Thomas Jefferson to General Eisenhower to Presidents Kennedy gone unheeded to this day and a heavy price is soon to be paid for the lack of vigilance required to maintain democracy, freedom and liberty.

    Australia being a 'client state' of the US and the UK merely goes along blindly, indirectly and directly being coerced by the trumpet of 'allies' and their treaties which weaken the sovereignty of this country. It continues with the lies of The Americans and refuses to speak up and defend its own citizens. A sorry state of affairs for this country and the reputation that it once had.

    The mainstream press and media have long been hijacked by the oligarchy
    and in its place we have propaganda, omisson of the relevant facts, lies and exaggerations. Journalism has degenerated into a self-opinionated entertainment of nothingness.

      • Soon :

        29 Apr 2011 2:22:28pm



        "...Thomas Jefferson to General Eisenhower to Presidents Kennedy gone unheeded to this day and a heavy price is soon to be paid..."

        Thomas Jefferson was President from 1801–1809, and JFK has been dead since 1963.

        So, when will "soon" happen?

          • rick :

            01 May 2011 6:00:52pm

            Just because it isn't in your backyard yet doesn't mean it isn't coming. Turn the news on for a preview.

  • Bob Lansdowne :

    29 Apr 2011 5:32:05am

    Leakywiki...A serialized diagnosis of chronic incontinence with the power to send an imaginative Troppo Bloggosphere into an Orbital Fairyland.

  • Zombie James :

    28 Apr 2011 10:28:00pm

    A few points -
    1. "hundreds of innocent men kidnapped and incarcerated without trial": some of them were children, in fact.
    2. "Chris Kenny, failed Liberal politician": they're all failures - ethically and intellectually.
    3. "Downer ... fears what an independent investigation may find in regards to his own government’s alleged complicity in their long incarceration": If I was Dolly I'd be more afraid of an investigation into how lies led to an illegal invasion that resulted in the mass murder of women and children.
    Of course, none of this is an issue because our stupidity, greed, fear and racism overwhelm our rationality. A few hundred innocents tortured? A few hundred thousand innocents killed? We don't care.

      • Kids in concentration camps :

        29 Apr 2011 12:40:10pm



        "...some of them were children, in fact."

        Are you talking about Villawood? Or Gitmo?

        Or Christmas Island?

  • Peter Kay :

    28 Apr 2011 10:25:51pm

    Whilst on the subject of truth, transparency, propoganda and conflicts of interest I think every story we read about righteous American wars in oil-rich countries should include the reminder by-line that "The USA pumps out 8 million barrels of oil per day yet it uses 20 million barrels of oil every single day." To me, that screams all of these so called wars of liberation are really geared up for 'American oil independence' rather than the civil liberation they decry.

  • Steve :

    28 Apr 2011 7:55:30pm

    Great article Antony!
    Whilst the public now has NO CHOICE but to recognise that the great USA, "champion of freedom, and democracy" is built on a FACADE of LIES, where to now for the general public? We have to recognise that even in Australia we do not really have democracy but only the illusion of one. YET the poor masses of the Middle East are screaming to have the same right as us. What a contradiction.
    I think untill the public becomes more fully engaged in the process we will not realise what democracy is meant to be. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Thomas Jefferson".

      • Casper :

        28 Apr 2011 11:06:57pm

        It's only now that you realise we are not, and may never have been, a democracy. Granted, we are increasing the distance between what we are and what a democracy is. Just because what we have is better than many other countries does not define us as a democracy.

  • Rashid :

    28 Apr 2011 7:11:09pm


    "The obvious question remains;why didn't The New York Times, The washington Post or The Guardian receive the scoop with their own investigations?"
    Is the answer not that their journalist were embedded with the invading forces?
    BTW, one is curious to know "who does what to whom in being in bed with the forces"--journalistically speaking of course.

      • Sinekal :

        28 Apr 2011 10:44:30pm

        Embedding journalists does what happens frequently when you go to bed with someone .. someone gets screwed. The whole point of accrediting and then "embedding" journalists is a far higher level of control over what they get to see and say.

        The old professionals such as the late cameraman Neil Davis were a constant worry to the military because they had no idea where they were or what they filmed. By having your soldiers "protecting" the journalists you ensure a controlled information process.

        Sorry Mr Murdoch, "It's too dangerous to let you any closer than this. We will get you in as soon as we can" is doublespeak for "Wait until we have the area all tidied up and the blood, guts and dead civilians cleared away, and you can film us giving out the lollies."

        The worst part is it just extends the contrived "do good" environment that the media swallow. Are they stupid or compliant?

          • Pink Diamond :

            29 Apr 2011 9:01:03am

            Reminds me of something Sinekal - ah, yes: anthropologists!

  • Pink Diamond :

    28 Apr 2011 6:23:03pm

    The end of Law is Tyranny - Tom Paine.
    We know this. We endure it. We must protest louder, longer, and with determination.

  • sammy :

    28 Apr 2011 6:14:35pm

    Antony

    "An infrastructure of torture was implemented, a practice still defended by the US government today, to allegedly protect the homeland from future attack."

    How on earth does someone 'implement an infrastructure'. You build an infrastructure. You construct infrastructure. But you don't 'implement an infrastructure'.

    There's more, but I won't go on.

    This is a poorly written article and it's very difficult to understand exactly what you are trying to communicate, except that you appear to be defending David Hicks who was fighting with the Taliban and others who clearly broke the laws of our civilised society.

    I am so tired of armchair analysts who holiday in the Middle East for a couple of weeks and think they understand its history and culture.



      • Doublespeak :

        01 May 2011 5:43:49pm

        What 'laws' did they supposedly break? And don't attempt to use confessions induced under torture which are inadmissable in any 'civilised' court.

        Love the use of the word 'civilised' through.
        Mmmm let's see what these 'civilised' countries have done:

        1. Invading countries through forgeries & lies that ended up killing 100s of thousands of civilians.

        2. Kidnapped civilians, (some of them minors & the elderly) from their country of origin, tortured them & now have jailed them indefinitely.

        3. Continue to bomb these countries civilians & then write off their deaths as 'incidental collateral damage', thereby demonstrating that they have no regard for the sanctity of human life by the use of such terms, but they claim they have morals & 'rules' and should be trusted.

        4. Overthrow democracies (Iran 1953, Guatemala 1954, Chile 1973, Nicaragua 1987) & install dictators that do what they're told but massacre their own people. But hey that's okay as long as they follow orders...

        5. Operate terrorist training schools (the School of the Americas) whose graduates raped & murdered their way through Central America killing civilians, nuns & priests. And shield & harbour these terrorists when they're wanted by the World Court. Using Washington's logic that means other countries have the right to blindly bomb US cities because they refuse to hand over terrorists

        5. And continue to try to meddle & influence the political process of so many countries in the Middle East through military bases, handing money to terrorist groups and helping Israel colonise Palestine.
        After all, I'm sure they wouldn't be okay if China established military bases in Mexico on the US border & threw money at US political candidates?

        And Australia goes along with this & continues to be the lackey of an Empire & help fight their wars

        So I don't see much 'civilised' behaviour here.

  • Hudson Godfrey :

    28 Apr 2011 6:12:41pm

    I think that the most interesting thing about these emergent truths are that they are pretty much as we could have expected. Celebrated though Wikileaks have been it is hard to see them having any more effect on history than Daniel Ellsberg did in leaking the Pentagon Papers. That may be harsh judgement but the problem for me is that Bush got away with the lie about WMD and with introducing torture to Guantanamo Bay. The point being that if the mistakes are repeated then clearly the consequences we place on leaders being caught simply aren't working.

      • Hadron Collider :

        29 Apr 2011 9:50:20am

        Sorry to be pedantic Hudson, but how did 'you' know that the WMD that Hussein had used before were categorically non existent? I mean, to be a lie, one would have to know the truth. Being unsure is not lying!

        Or are you just pretending that you knew?

          • Jennifer Wilson :

            29 Apr 2011 1:49:46pm

            Hadron, it became pretty obvious that there were no WMDs when the Bush administration refused to wait for the UN weapons inspectors to conclude their investigations before declaring war.

            It was revealed by those inspectors that they'd found no WMDs, after the invasion was under way. Why wouldn't Bush wait until he was no longer "unsure?"

            Also perhaps you aren't familiar with Ambassador Joseph Wilson's trip to Niger looking for evidence that the Iraqis had taken delivery of yellow cake from that country. Wilson revealed that Bush lied to the American people and the world by misinforming them of what Wilson found - which was that no such sale took place and Hussein had no stash of yellow cake or those pesky aluminum containers either.

            Unsure? Unsure my ass. Bush lied.
            Sorry I'm in the US at the moment and am culturally imperialised- make that my a*se.

              • Hadron Collider :

                29 Apr 2011 6:34:03pm

                Jennifer; by 'pretty obvious', do you mean in the same way that suicide bombers conceal their bombs before they detonate them and blow innocent people to smithereens?

                The Chilcot inquiry established that Blix had said that he couldn't be certain and that Blair genuinely believed that there were WMD.

                Our own doleful Richard Butler, had proclaimed his belief that there were WMD. We know he(Saddam Hussein) used them: On his OWN citizens! And he fired rockets into other countries.

                Just as you believed that there were non (WMD), prior to knowing that. I believed that there were. I also believe that he would have murdered again: many.

              • Hudson Godfrey :

                30 Apr 2011 12:23:28am

                Hadron,

                At the risk of provoking any further comments that might under the circumstances get Jennifer thrown into Gitmo, her culturally imperialised intuition is good for this, as is the evidence. What Butler believed and what he was able to find having been two different things doesn't speak to what Saddam, who was by all means a full blown tyrant, would have liked to have done. It speaks instead to the fact that the neo-cons lost patience with an inconvenient set of facts and instead adopted the time honoured tactic of trying to cook the books, fudge the evidence and if necessary adopt the Great Big Lie technique of repeating a falsehood authoritatively until people started to believe it. In effect they got the war they wanted by hook or by crook. Part of it may even have been justifiable in the eyes of some including Christopher Hitchens, but only if you're willing to swallow the means justifying the ends. I'm not, because we were lied to, a war was started in our name, and now we have terrorism directed towards us over matters that frankly weren't worth the candle. Had we acted the same way without a false pretext then I suspect that wouldn't have been the outcome, and had we resolved to remove the tyrant diplomatically then I'm even surer that it wouldn't.

              • Hadron Collider :

                29 Apr 2011 6:36:24pm

                ..And PS Jennifer. How could Bush lie, if he didn't know the answer? No-one could be 100% certain. And one needs to be, with despicable vermin like Hussein

              • Hudson Godfrey :

                30 Apr 2011 12:34:24am

                Hadron,

                You could almost sell that bill of goods on the basis that ignorance is something in Dubya that we were inclined to believe, but as President he had a responsibility to provide reliable answers. When speaking even retrospectively of a Presidency what can't be attributed to the individual personage is nevertheless applicable to their administration. He could doubtless have gotten away with calling Hussein, despicable vermin at almost any point he chose to, but in saying he possessed WMD either the individual or the administration perpetrated a falsehood on which they based a war. The casualty figures alone simply don't permit such a casual relationship with the truth.

          • Hudson Godfrey :

            30 Apr 2011 12:08:00am

            Hadron,

            The specific lie simply wasn't any of the things that you mentioned. As I recall one of the main aspects was repeated attempts by Colin Powell, Rumsfeld and others to point to instances where ongoing WMD programs existed in the lead up to the second Iraq including reliance on forged documents about "yellow-cake" from Niger and inaccurate speculation as to the intended purpose of some aluminium tubes. This is all well known and no longer even controversial, so nobody needs to pretend anymore. It occurred against a background of concerted programs of inspection for any sign of the smoking gun both before and after the invasion that were to no avail whatsoever. Be pedantic if you will but even a pedant has to call shenanigans on an outright lie at some point!?

              • Hadron Collider :

                30 Apr 2011 10:25:28pm

                You probably needed a thousand words to disguise the fact that you, AND Jennifer said that it was lie, when in fact YOU & SHE couldn't possibly know what weapons were or were not concealed...OK so far?

                You can obfuscate all you like, but the clear and unequivocal fact is that YOU, Hudson, did NOT know more than Hans Blix. Or are you saying you did?

                Surely I don't have to quote what he said at The Chilcot enquiry... again? Because I have pasted it in three times this year already!

                The leaders of The Coilition deemed it likely that he had WMD, and it was well hidden . Not Yellow cake. Now if he was a reasonable person one might give him (Hussein) the benefit of the doubt and just take a risk. But he wasn't . He wasa tyrant who had murdered and tortured his own people; atacked other countries--and invaded them. Remember? Because it goes to the heart of the matter..He had form. Incredible form. And of course was subsequently tried and convicted by his own people...Pleeese.




              • Hudson Godfrey :

                01 May 2011 4:59:02pm

                So what it becomes a truth because it is conceivable though never proven that it could have been that case? Sorry but that's ridiculously thin. Far too thin to go to war on. Facts and opinions look 'em up there's a difference.

              • Doublespeak :

                01 May 2011 5:54:48pm

                I see you're defending 'pre-emptive' war because after all A just might use weapons on B so A should be invaded. Priceless.

                The fact is the yellowcake from Niger claim was a forgery penned by the White House & the IAEA knew it was a forgery (not even a good one) & told them so. So did Joseph Wilson who was sent to Niger to investigate the claim & blew the whistle on Cheney & his terrorist pals.
                Blix's team wanted more time to find these alleged weapons which the US denied them because they knew they had to attack before there pretext (WMD) was revealed to be another lie.
                And if you wanted 'form', Wikileaks showed us that most of their 'intelligence'/lies were coming from 'Curveball' an Iraqi citizen who was a
                complusive liar, not to mention good 'ol Cheney, Rummy & Co lol.

                And if you're claiming that Saddam had form, yes he did. He was using chemical weapons on the Kurds & against Iran, supplied by the US who continued to supply him in 1989 6 months after using these weapons against these targets. So the US had no problem with him massacring innocents then. In fact they helped him do it.

                Just a continuation of the US swinging door of 'friend' to 'fiend' once they stop following orders & have outlived their usefullness.

              • Hadron Collider :

                02 May 2011 9:20:03am

                "the US denied them because they knew they had to attack before there pretext (WMD) was revealed to be another lie. "

                Again, like Hudson and Jennifer, you are just spouting supposition.

                We know about curve-ball 'now'. Isn't hindsight a wonderful gift? Unfortunately it cannot be used in Battle. One has to make decisions based on 'known data'.

                To sum it up, I do understand where every-one is coming from on this issue: from one's beliefs that war is wrong and a last resort.However I believe that The moment Hussein played fast & loose with the inspectors; lying cheating; denying access and being in the position of a murdering ruthless, bastard, he was a gone.

                So no yellowcake, other than the 550 tons declared and removed--to Canada I seem to remember.

                I only wrote about the other WMD: the ones' that I referred to in another article here; Mustard gas, cyanide and other dastardly chemical weapons. Sarin, tabun and VX too. You know: his favourites!!

                Now we (or at least I) didn't know whether he possessed them still.

                One things for sure, he's not around to be tried at The Hague!

              • Hudson Godfrey :

                02 May 2011 1:27:02pm

                Hadron,

                Your "supposition" claim seems to infer we weren't able to "suppose" any of a range of possibilities unless and until actual evidence emerged. The talk of the time was of "pre-emptive" action as if to argue that the "supposed" risk justified any means to extinguish it. Those cannot be and were not deemed sufficient reasons for a military invasion. Had Saddam's record and intentions been manifestly at issue then maybe the UN would have sanctioned the action, but they did not. Instead it was taken on a false and it turned out largely falsified pretext. When matters are distorted, falsified and overplayed in such a manner as to manufacture consent for something as serious as a war then I don't think "liar" is too harsh a kind of language!

  • Bighead1883 :

    28 Apr 2011 6:11:20pm

    Bush,Blair and Howard should face Crimes Against Humanity Charges at The Haigh.

      • vanessa :

        29 Apr 2011 11:49:14am

        At the South Australian chocolate shop? ;-) Perhaps you mean the Hague.

          • Ministry of Truth :

            30 Apr 2011 10:36:04am



            A South Australian chocolate shop would be more effective.

      • Hadron Collider :

        29 Apr 2011 1:29:58pm

        So should Saddam Hussein, but he's dead.

          • the Lion :

            01 May 2011 5:12:43pm

            The Hague only Prosecutes War Crimes when the Accuseds country Refuses to Prosecute.

              • Hadron Collider :

                02 May 2011 11:55:45am

                Well of course The Coalition put that in train.

  • bobb :

    28 Apr 2011 5:07:00pm

    The Afghanis made a fortune from the Americans by selling off to them anyone they could lay their hands on (and also to pay off old scores) after 9/11. The media jumped on to the bandwagon in a frenzy of unthinking 'patriotism' and pushed the Party line. Hicks was made an offer he could not refuse and his 'admission' has been used against him by the media ever since. Interesting that Howard only decided to do something about him when he realised that it might cost him some votes. Anyone who has read a book about Afghan history will realise that NATO and the Americans are on a trip to nowhere and once they have left, the Afghan government will disintegrate due to tribal, religious and factional in-fighting characteristic of the Afghan way of life. The Russians must be enjoying the American and NATO discomfiture.

      • the Lion :

        01 May 2011 5:15:06pm

        Bob an Afghani is the the Currency of Afghanistan, a native of Afghanistan is known as an Afghan!

  • melbourneninja :

    28 Apr 2011 5:06:37pm

    Bravo Antony!

    Finally, The Drum allows an informed person write something on WikiLeaks.

    WikiLeaks are heroes and should be given the Nobel Peace Prize. They have uncovered remarkable crimes committed by the so-called superpower. But rather than condemning the perpetrators in the documents (e.g., torturers, renderers, kidnappers, child-killers, war-crimes committers etc), the mainstream media attack WikiLeaks and Assange.

    I'm still waiting for the Apache helicopter pilots in the "Collateral Murder" video to be charged and convicted for war crimes.

  • Bob :

    28 Apr 2011 4:46:20pm

    Those whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad.

  • Small by comparison :

    28 Apr 2011 3:52:48pm


    As of August 26, 2006, the total number of detainees at Camp Delta, Guantanamo Bay Cuba, stood at approximately 445. Most of these have ben released.


    There are far more refugees behind razor wire in Australia than the were people ever detained at Guantanamo Bay - and many, many more children.


    Interestingly, though, many of the detainees at Villawood and Christmas Island come from the same countries as the Guantanamo Bay detainees.


    I understand why anti-American activists make a big deal about Guantanamo Bay.

    I mean, it beats having to deal with worse abuses in Cuba, say.


    But all things considered, Guantanamo Bay is not a very big prison.


      • atomou :

        29 Apr 2011 9:41:51am

        It's enormous on torture!

          • Caps Lock is a give away :

            29 Apr 2011 2:18:59pm



            Not even Mamdouh Habib now pretends he was tortured at Gitmo.

              • sea mendez :

                01 May 2011 7:45:02pm

                But lets not pretend torture hasn't happened. And we should note it has been enormously counterproductive.

  • GraemeF :

    28 Apr 2011 3:39:13pm

    Since Thatcher and Reagan set the scene, right wingers believe that they are capable of no evil. Worse still, they believe that repeating the same lies and propaganda will somehow change reality.

    I hope someone is not stupid enough to even suggest that Obama is a left winger. The US has two right wing parties. The right wing Democrats and the far right wing Republicans. Australia has already drifted down the same path with a centre right Labor party.

      • Mick Stevens :

        28 Apr 2011 8:49:49pm

        I am so sick of this left wing, right wing crap. This battle between outdated ideologies (which don't even really exist nowadays) kills political debate in this country.

          • Ford :

            29 Apr 2011 10:47:12am

            Yeah, Australia's renowned for it's robust political debate within the community.
            There's no political debate in this country because the overwhelming majority of people simply don't care...not about refugees, not about Wikileaks, not about media ownership...war...climate change.
            The dearth of political debate in Australia (and the world) has nothing to do with "outdated ideologies" which seem very much in evidence today just as they have always been.

  • Brian :

    28 Apr 2011 3:30:25pm

    Individual cases can be argued until the cows come home but the central argument herein stands, "The idea of trusting the government to imprison people for life based on secret, untested evidence never reviewed by a court should repel any decent or minimally rational person."

  • Accept them as refugees :

    28 Apr 2011 2:29:54pm


    With respect to Obama's role, it's worth pointing out that no new prisoners have been transferred to Guantánamo since 2007.


    As for the remaining prisoners, I think the only principled thing for Australia to do is to lobby the US government to let us accept them as refugees down here.


    They should be released into the community.


      • Bob :

        28 Apr 2011 6:19:06pm

        "it's worth pointing out that no new prisoners have been transferred to Guantánamo since 2007"

        Rubbish! The Americans continue to practice rendition, torture and incarceration without abate, they are just more secretive about it.

          • Zombie James :

            28 Apr 2011 10:36:14pm

            Outright kidnapping is down, rendition and torture are steady, mass murder by drone is up.

          • Correct :

            29 Apr 2011 12:38:34pm


            No, "Accept them..." is right. There have been no new prioners in Gitmo since 2007.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/25/world/guantanamo-files-lives-in-an-american-limbo.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2

  • Sue :

    28 Apr 2011 2:28:41pm

    I look forward to the time when we find out the implications for the Howard government. Unfortunately we will probably have to wait for a non-Australian journalist to do the investigation.

  • kenj :

    28 Apr 2011 2:27:24pm

    And on the topic of the Bush administration's targeting of Al Jazeera, I recall other instances. In the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan their Kabul office was bombed by an American 'smart bomb' in what was officially described as an accident. Journalist Ron Suskind spoke to US military sources who confirmed, however, that the bombing was deliberate, to "send a message" to the media organization. The order almost certainly came from the White House.

    In a further incident in April 2003, during the Iraq invasion, Al Jazeera's Baghdad office was hit by a US missile, killing one person and wounding another. The network's chief editor said: "Witnesses in the area saw the plane fly over twice before dropping the bombs. Our office is in a residential area and even the Pentagon knows its location."

    Further, two UK officials were charged (in 2006, I think) under the Official Secrets Act for leaking a classified memo to the Daily Mirror where it is alleged that Pres. Bush, in an April 2004 meeting with Tony Blair, had discussed bombing the headquarters of Al Jazeera in Qatar. Blair reportedly talked him out of it. Now Qatar is a US ally and the journalists were civilians. The claim appears to have some substance since the officials were charged and they would have been unlikely to leak a false claim in the face of such serious consequences. So there you have it...Bush planned to murder innocent civilians in a country allied to the US who were just going about their daily business and he was prepared to do so solely on the basis of their political views and their status as media representatives.

      • Pink Diamond :

        29 Apr 2011 11:09:14am

        Thank-you for the timely reminder, kenj.
        Syriana, anyone?

          • sea mendez :

            01 May 2011 8:43:17pm

            Syriana was based on a true story. Except in the true story the target wasn't hit. And he wasn't a reforming prince. He was Saddam Hussein.

            Conspiracy theory anyone.

  • China and Russia at Gitmo :

    28 Apr 2011 2:25:05pm


    For me, this was the most surprising revelation...

    " The leaked documents show how many foreign countries sent intelligence officers to question Guantánamo detainees — among them China, Russia, Tajikistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait, Algeria and Tunisia..."


    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/25/world/guantanamo-files-lives-in-an-american-limbo.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2


  • Kevin :

    28 Apr 2011 2:19:19pm


    "Yet this authoritarian impulse to believe untested claims by the US government is exactly what many in the media have been doing for years, repeating without question deliberately leaked intelligence files on the “worst of the worst” prisoners."
    The Howard government were making the same claims and were equally guilty.

  • Colin :

    28 Apr 2011 2:07:52pm

    A terrific piece Anthony, and truly what every Australian ought to know about the dirty secrets our governments keep from us with regard to Human Rights Abuses, being condoned by past and present Coalition and Labor Parties

      • Pink Diamond :

        29 Apr 2011 9:03:54am

        And not only abroad, Colin.
        Internally displaced persons figure in our governments' objects of repression and inhumanitarianism.

  • Ivan :

    28 Apr 2011 1:59:42pm

    Well written article - finally the truth is (begrudgingly) revealed. Rather than simply acknowledge: "We got it wrong " the mainstream press are still being dragged kicking and screaming to get those words out.

    Words, I add, that most thinking people have known for at least 6 of the past 10 years, still need to be said.

    America prides itself on being "Home of the Brave and Land of the Free" yet I don't see either quality illustrated in their treatment of their own citizens or of foreigners with whom they disagree, or whom disagree with them.

    Exactly the opposite - cowardice, bullying, torture and imprisonment without trial.

    GWB said: "If yer not fer us, yer agin us!" Obama got elected partly through his promise to close Gitmo within 12 months ... but remember, he is a politician, so what did we expect ... "Yes! We can!" (not).

    American paranoia is what is at the root of growing hatred for that country, and I have to admit that the good feelings I had towards America in my youth, are now a long-forgotten memory. My eyes have been opened to exactly the kind of tyranny rules that corrupt and terrible country.

    What was I thinking?

  • What happened to Mohamed Abbas :

    28 Apr 2011 1:59:18pm


    Talking about Mamdouh Habib, whose dogged heroism is truly remarkable, I am very surprised the Australian government and independent media have failed to follow up on Mr. Habib's revelations of 2002 about Egyptian-born Australian citizen Mohamed Abbass.


    As you will recall, Mamdouh Habib saw Mohamed Abbass, who disappeared more than six years ago, in an Egyptian jail where they were both tortured.


    http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/I-saw-lost-man-in-Egypt-jail-Habib/2005/06/08/1118123900480.html


    Mamdouh contacted the Sydney family of Mohamed Abbass after returning home from Guantanamo Bay with the news of having met him in gaol.


    Mr Habib reported visiting Mohamed Abbass in a jail near Cairo 18 months after he (Mr. Abbass) went missing.


    Given that Mohamed Abbass is an Australian citizen, and in light of the recent revolution in Egypt, I am bewildered by the fact that neither Mamdouh Habib nor the Australian government has uttered a single word in public about the circumstances of Mohamed Abbass since the overthrow of the Mubarek regime.


    What could explain this, I wonder?



      • Kids in concentration camps :

        29 Apr 2011 12:41:34pm



        "...What could explain this, I wonder?"

        Perhaps Mamdouh was, er, "mistaken" again?

  • kenj :

    28 Apr 2011 1:57:36pm

    I had to laugh at the reference to Chris Kenny and Alexander Downer criticizing David Hicks and Mamdouh Habib. They should know better, certainly Downer, given the machinations of the Cole inquiry into the AWB. Downer is close friend of former US defence secretary, William Cohen, founder of the Cohen Group. It's no accident, I suppose, that this powerful US PR firm with close ties to defense industries and the Bush leadership, was willing to assist the AWB before the Volker and Cole Inquiries. And then there's Frank Miller. This former Senior Director for Defense Policy and Arms Control at the National Security Council, VP of the Cohen Group, served for thirty one years at senior levels of the US government on things like nuclear deterrence, strategic arms reduction, national space policy, defense trade reform, and transforming the American and NATO militaries. This is a very senior guy. He doesn't get out of bed except to reorganize NATO. Yet we are told that he flew to Australia to handle "the day-to-day work" for the AWB before the Cole inquiry. What gives? What was Frank Miller doing before a pissy wheat corruption investigation in Australia? My take is that Miller and the Cohen Group were acting as damage control agents, not for the AWB, but for Downer and the Howard government.

    The deeper story is about the Sibel Edmonds claims: of covert US foreign policy -- including support for Islamic terrorist groups -- being conducted via intermediaries such as the Turkish government and its US "cultural agency," the American Turkish Council(ATC). Edmonds testified before various US Congressional and Intelligence committees that senior levels of the US administration are fully aware of the theft or illegal transfer of nuclear weapons technology some of which ends up in the hands of al Qaeda. The Cohen Group has board membership on the ATC. Marc Grossmann was, until he resigned in Jan 2005, the US ambassador to Turkey and US Deputy Secretary of State. He then became a VP of the Cohen Group and a special adviser to the ATC on a retainer of $100,000 per month.

    Wheels within wheels. Hicks and Habib are amateurs.

  • JoeBloggs :

    28 Apr 2011 1:53:32pm

    Poke someone with a stick long enough and they will lash out.

    Poke the USA often enough and it too will lash out (rightly or wrongly).

    I find it ironic that those who seek to destroy the USA (and Western Civilisation) and hate its rules and laws seek to hide behind those same rules and laws ("...principally based on self-incrimination that would not be admitted in a proper court of law and tainted by the inclusion of information obtained under torture").

    In other words they are guilty as sin but would get off on a technicality in a civilian court in a western nation.

      • longfulan :

        28 Apr 2011 2:40:30pm

        Western civilisation existed well before the USA did. Western civilisation does not need the USA to exist!

          • JoeBloggs :

            29 Apr 2011 1:01:00pm

            Very true! and they seek to destroy both.

      • Ford :

        28 Apr 2011 3:42:26pm

        Much as it pains me to side with Lowenstein, (hotness aside): surely the "rules and laws" that the USA maintains as the core of its culture do not cover torture, wrongful imprisonment and despotism...in fact they would be the very values the USA pretends to reject (whilst supporting various murderous dictators around the world) and seeks to stamp out in other countries like Libya, Egypt etc (except when they're the ones putting the guns in the hands of the murderers).
        The USA seems unable to understand why every country where they've supported a murdering tyrant has turned against them, perhaps Wikileaks can show them the way. Exposing USA hypocricy is a service more to the benefit of the USA population than anyone else.
        There's never an excuse for terrorism...thus the USA should stop promoting and participating in it.

          • JoeBloggs :

            29 Apr 2011 1:07:11pm

            LOL the USA has never positioned itself as a country that doesn't do all those nasty things.

            During each world war the forces of the USA (like every other nation involved) used torture to extract information from its enemies when required. Ex-judical killing was also normal day to day business.

            Nothing has changed from that point and no doubt was the same before then.

            Torture and ex-judical killing has always been (and will always be) a part of all and any society or civilisation.

            People who think that the USA represents the ultimate country of enlightenment are sorely mistaken and live in a fairy tale land of well laid out propaganda.

      • Nick :

        28 Apr 2011 4:18:25pm

        Joe,

        The comment also includes "replete with glaring factual errors and inconsistencies" which means that these people were far from guilty.

        Please dont presume guilt unless proven innocent.

      • Jerry Cornelius :

        28 Apr 2011 4:24:10pm

        "In other words they are guilty as sin but would get off on a technicality in a civilian court in a western nation."

        Evidence gained by torture is not admissable in the civilized world because information given under torture is not reliable. It has been known since the Inquisition that people under torture confess whatever they believe their torturers want to hear. It applies to torturers looking for terrorists as well as it applied to Inquisitors looking for witches and heretics.

          • Pink Diamond :

            29 Apr 2011 9:31:13am

            Yet Alan Dershowitz endorses the procedure. Curiouser and curiouser.

          • JoeBloggs :

            29 Apr 2011 2:49:31pm

            And yet the human species still finds torture a useful mechanisim for obtaining information.

            For those that practice such methods there must be an element of reliable information obtained otherwise states would not waste valuable resources and time conducting such methods.

            I think what you are trying to say is evidence gained by torture is not admissable in civilian courts in certain countries. Evidence gained by torture is used by all nations to further their agendas.

            Also westerners are no more or less civilised than any other group of humans on this planet, we are no shinning light of 'superiority' in reality.

            Interestingly the last witch burning occured in the early 1900's... guess where it happened... the USA.

      • citizen181 :

        28 Apr 2011 4:27:58pm

        Actually they are neither guilty or innocent until they are judge before a properly constituted court that's the point. As for government it is only requested that they uphold and adhere to the laws they say they are defending in our name.

          • JoeBloggs :

            29 Apr 2011 2:51:59pm

            They are defending our economic wellbeing not some vague notion of superiority of our civilisation and its laws.

            That is the whole point of geo-politics (which our current 'war on terror' is just a part).

            Ignore the propaganda mate.

      • Pink Diamond :

        29 Apr 2011 9:30:05am

        That is the reason why, I suspect, attitudes are hardening about recent damage at Villawood, Joe.

  • Michael :

    28 Apr 2011 1:34:16pm

    Bradley Manning is indeed a patriot of the highest order and it is Obama, Bush, Cheney and co who are the real perpetrators of Treason.

    As 'regular' citizens out governments expect us to remain ignorant of the truth and accept things like Torture, mandatory detention and extraodinary rendition as the price we must pay for freedom and democracy. Unfortunately democracy and freedom can not really exist when those that perpetrate these atrocities and those that condone them remain free.

      • Harquebus :

        29 Apr 2011 2:12:56am

        I agree.

      • Jack of All Tradies :

        29 Apr 2011 7:41:40am

        Bradley Manning sat in a combat zone where his comrades were being killed; gave out secrets that aided the enemy. He deserves, and most likely will will get, a firing squad.

        Being kept nude in solitary is the least of this little dweebs problems.

          • Pink Diamond :

            29 Apr 2011 9:32:58am

            Jack is right I'm afraid.
            Yet, an humane society would not torture him, but correct, by instruction - possibly severe. That is: it would 'grow him up.'

          • atomou :

            29 Apr 2011 9:53:03am

            Actually, Manning was helping Americans understand what the war was really all about. He was doing them a most patriotic deed and doing it with great generosity of spirit and love for justice.

              • Pink Diamond :

                29 Apr 2011 1:22:42pm

                Yes, atomou, but he is very young, and lacked the judgement, it seems, to understand that his status in the military dis-entitles him to certain civil rights. He should, if indeed it was he (unproven so far) have resigned from the military, resumed civilian life - and not put at risk anyone still in service.
                He was young and ignorant. He should not be shot for ignorance.

              • sea mendez :

                01 May 2011 8:51:26pm

                Well these latest leaks seem to indicate the war is about pursuing violent Islamists.

          • kenj :

            29 Apr 2011 3:22:50pm

            Wrong, Jack. He was reporting on, amongst other things, war crimes and officials who were misleading the public. None of what he said had any aspects that "aided the enemy" -- unless, of course, you consider The Guardian, Der Spiegal, the NY Times and the public at large as "the enemy." He's a hero.

          • the Lion :

            01 May 2011 7:30:33pm

            So which enemy would that be, The United States public, or the Australian Public.

            Manning and Assange deserve the Nobel Peace Prize.

            The Apache Pilot deserves a hearing in The Hague for War Crimes. Firing on article 3 persons injured and Hors de Combat. Which the US Supreme Court has ruled that EVERY person on the battlefield at the very least.

  • abno :

    28 Apr 2011 1:31:47pm

    Nietzsche and monsters.

    The Septics have become Soviets.

      • smithe :

        28 Apr 2011 2:52:03pm

        Very apt.

        Once we've started down the "trusting the government to imprison people for life based on secret, untested evidence" path there's very little difference between our justice system and that of Stalin's Russia.

        As for patriotism, I recall a time (quite recently) when anyone voicing an opinion in the blogosphere opposing out entry into George Bush's little Iraq adventure was branded a terrorist or at least a terrorist sympathiser by those in favour of the war.

        The lack of critical examination of the lies and propaganda peddled by our leadership at the time in order to engineer the that war forever stands as an damning indictment of our media.

        For my money, Rupert Murdoch and those like him are more of a threat to our freedoms than Hicks ever was.

      • Tomokatu :

        28 Apr 2011 4:55:03pm

        They always were.
        Anybody who genuinely believed the USA's massive propaganda effort, starting in the 1930s in Hollywood, is one of the "useful idiots" so often railed at by the Far Right's Howler Monkey Brigades.

        A more careful examination of the facts of History would have shown them more of the truth, but that takes actual work and analytical thought.

        It's much easier to repeat the phrases so carefully crafted and put in front of them.

  • Fnord :

    28 Apr 2011 1:26:58pm

    Wikileaks is easy to destroy. All the Americans need to do is leak fake information onto the site.

    Fill the documents with real juicy stuff. The kind of wacko conspiracies that wikileaks fans already believe to be true anyway. People will lap it up.

    Then a couple of months later, the Americans release the real evidence and systematically disprove what Wikileaks has been claiming for months.

    Wikileaks will lose all credibility as a source for information.

    Nobody will ever take it seriously. By the time matters resolve, the site will be nothing more then a refuge for cranks and crackpots.

    Good idea, eh? But then again, I do not claim to be a genius.

    I would bet that the American government has already considered the idea, assuming they are not doing it already.

    Enjoy your weekend (Cue X-Files theme)

      • Founder :

        28 Apr 2011 3:57:37pm

        Wikileaks independently verifies the information it releases.
        That is why it takes so long to release the Cables

          • Zing :

            29 Apr 2011 10:59:50am

            If wikileaks were capable of verifying secret documents, they would not need the leaks in the first place.

              • citizen181 :

                29 Apr 2011 3:11:21pm

                Guess you have never been in the position of having a piece of information that someone doesn't want you to have .... all you have to do is let on that you have something and watch them try and get it back. Wikileaks did this with their latest batch of material and spent some time with US Authorities determining its veracity and redacting material that they where told was likely to be harmful to certain individuals.

      • Budovski :

        28 Apr 2011 4:03:45pm

        Been tried before, don't worry. You can rest assured that your 'genius' has fallen flat on its face before.

      • citizen181 :

        28 Apr 2011 4:25:05pm

        Except that unlike the media and government agencies raised in this article Wikileaks goes to great lengths to vet and confirm the information it is provided.

  • Jack of All Tradies :

    28 Apr 2011 1:14:11pm

    Reading Mumdoo the moron's leaked file, rather than the spin of lefty journos and the scumbags scumbag lawyer, it is clear that he has serious questions to answer about how he funded extensive travel between suadi, australia and Pakistan while apparently broke.

    Also why he called his wife to ask about the 9/11attacks - before they occurred!

    The CIA would have been stupid not to lock up the creep.

    If the he spent time in the hands of nasty people in Egypt, where
    idiots like him and his wife should stay, that's of no concern to me.

      • Gordicans :

        28 Apr 2011 3:13:43pm

        If he is viciously tortured in Egypt in the presence of Australian officials, and interrogated by those officials whilst subject to torture, then it should be of great concern to you.

      • seajae :

        29 Apr 2011 9:50:46am

        strange thing is when interviewed he kept saying he never admitted anything,most people would say they were innocent. This certainly makes it sound like he was there for something other than the views and what exactly didnt he admit. There is a lot more to this than what we are hearing but I doubt the truth will come out about this man. At least hicks was a wanna be soldier and went there so he could shoot at people, even if he is trying to deny it now, he just wanted to be a soldier and play war games. Now it seems it is how much they can make out of their inuendo about everything that really happened.

  • Harquebus :

    28 Apr 2011 1:09:26pm

    Kidnapping and detaining people is so old hat. Barack Obama just kills them. Those predators and reapers are awesome.
    Keep up the good fight Antony.

  • greg :

    28 Apr 2011 1:09:10pm

    Hick’s was just an innocent who got caught up in events. I love the way the Hicks supports completely gloss over Hicks confession (not the one to the Americans, but rather the one in his letters to his dad). If you believe that you would also believe that Rudd was removed because a good government had lost its way.

      • FrankG :

        28 Apr 2011 3:03:36pm

        Confessions? There were no confession in his letters. Did you forget that he has comitted no crime under Australian, international or US law- Howard admitted that himself. If he was so guilty, why didnt they put him through a normal court? The reality is, there was no evidence, because he did nothing wrong. You can think all you want about Hicks personally (I'm sure you have never met the guy, but you see fit to make judgement), but don't put aside the rule of law and human rights for your own personal prejudice like Howard, Ruddock and Downer did. Hicks was tortured, that is never ok.

          • Matt12 :

            29 Apr 2011 12:15:31am

            Are you comparing firing RPG's and setting off bombs in crowds with a bit of water dripped on someones face, get real.

              • CN :

                29 Apr 2011 10:20:18am

                Waterboarding is not "a bit of water dripped on the face", but rather a sustained torrent deliberately channelled into the airways to simulate the sensation of drowning while the victim is heavily restrained, repeated for hours at a time.

                It can damage the lungs, cause permament brain damage, cause heart attacks, and (if uninterrupted) it will kill the victim in excrutiating pain. Reading what a victim of waterboarding goes through during "dry drowning" is particularly horrific and grotesque.

                Like other forms of torture, waterboarding is banned by international treaty, does not work, and is an act of unvarnished barbarism.

                That is reality.

          • the Lion :

            01 May 2011 7:39:31pm

            Hicks was Prosecuted under laws that didnt exist at the time he was alledged to have committed them, there is no Crime in the law of wars for conspiracy, EXCEPT at the level of Presidents Prime Ministers and Generals. According to the indictment which I have read (it was published by the US) He was convicted for guarding a destroyed tank BEFORE the US started their attack on Afghanistan!

      • Act Rationally :

        28 Apr 2011 5:57:06pm

        Just remember what the sydney writers festival said - "he was just there to help".

        Hicks should count himself lucky that as a un-uniformed combatant he was not executed on the battlefield - as spies are legally allowed to be.

          • the Lion :

            01 May 2011 7:46:08pm

            Hicks wasnt captured on the Battlefield, he was Hors de Combat, also are you that ignorant as to what the Rules of War are. I suggest you actually read what Geneva says not what you think it does. Article 4 allows a person to spontaniously take up arms without a Uniform on the Battlefield. However Hicks wasnt picked up by Soldiers of the US he was picked up by UN-UNIFORMED Northern Alliance, they in fact were fighting a civil war with the very Government that GW Bush gave 160 million dollars months before 9/11 to stop Opium Poppy production, The Taliban!