Kate de Brito
Monday, February 28, 2011 at 08:22am
Dear Bossy: My girlfriend and I have been together for over a year now and things appear to be going well. I am 26 and she is 27. One of the few things that bug me is that she still thinks I should pay for everything. I pay for most of her shopping (we don’t live together but she cooks sometimes), all restaurant meals and the accomodation when we went away (she paid for her own airfare). She does not have a car and she never contributes to my costs when i’m driving her around all weekend.
She earns more than I do but she has a greater amount of debt due to purchasing two houses. She uses this as an excuse but I do not think that she is seriously proposing it as an excuse.
One other thing that really irks me it that she keeps saying that she is a girl, and she is using that as an excuse not to pay for things. My view is that while men should pay for restaurant meals and that sort of thing, a man and a woman should share expenses equally in circumstances where their income is similar.
Should I just suck it up, or do you think she should contribute? I love her and just feel that I need some third party advice to get past this.
Sincerely,
Troubled.
Bossy says: You shouldn’t have to pay. Your girlfriend sounds like another one of those Gen (delete letter) princesses who thinks the world owes her a living.
Tell her to cough up some cash or it’s over. Or better still, sit sphinx-like at the table next time the bill arrives, not moving a muscle, until she finally reaches for her purse.
Why should you suck it up? It’s not like it’s your first date. You have been together a year! You both have jobs and decent incomes. There is no reason she shouldn’t pay her share.
The tradition of men paying for women is a hangover from past decades when many women didn’t work. So they didn’t have their own money. Or not much of it. Men were the chief earners and paid for women when they took them out. This often continued after marriage when women stayed home and kept house and men were the main “providers”.
That’s all changed. Many women earn good wages. In most cases there’s no reason for them not to pay their own way.
Your girlfriend may have grown up in a family where her parents modelled this traditional sort of arrangement. Or her parents made her feel she should expect this from a man. Or maybe she’s just milking the sheila card for all it is worth.
As much as I hate to generalise I think some girls do want it both ways. They want the freedom to go out and do what they want and earn their own money but still be treated like princesses. They still want to be swept off their feet financially and romantically by some knight on a white steed.
At some stage you have to tell her you don’t think it’s fair. Ask her why she should have a free ride just because she’s female? Ask her how she can want all the other victories of feminism and yet still hide behind this old chestnut?
Tell her you love her and love the relationship but from now on she’s going to have to start paying for herself.
Alternately you could try a less direct route and just stop paying for stuff. Don’t offer to pay at the checkout. Walk away when it’s time to pay. If they are her groceries she should be paying. If you are booking accommodation just tell her outright ….it’s $150 each. “Do you want to pay direct or put the money in my account?”
.
You can still keep shelling out for restaurant meals if it pleases you. It’s nice for partners to take each other on dates. But surely you’re not going to keep paying every time you schlepp down to the local cafe for breakfast? Next time just put your share down on the table and ask her to fix up the rest of the bill. Or when it comes say: “It’s $20 each.”
Eventually she will pipe up and say something and you need to tell her calmly that you want an equitable relationship and don’t see how it’s equal when all the money is coming from you.
The bottom line is you are helping to finance her two homes. So when she is sitting pretty with two investment properties and you have nothing you will wonder why you didn’t say anything earlier. Give generously to your partner. There is nothing wrong with that. But don’t get boxed into a position where you feel beholden to take care of all the spending just because she’s a woman.
If she has financial commitments you will need to take these into account when planning things in future. It may mean she cant do as many things because she is too busy servicing her loan.
It’s not an easy conversation but it’s a conversation you need to have.
Good luck
119 Comments
I never really get the whole he/she pays argument, your a couple, you should behave as one and split the difference or one pays this time and the other the time after that. Look I don’t think there is a right or wrong here, what works for one may not work for another.
But the end game here is that she treats with disrespect, she feels like you owe her, that is not right and its up to you to set her straight. Tell her point blank that you can’t and will not continue to tolerate that expectation that you should pay each and everytime. I mean seriously you don’t always have the same money week in and week out, everyone has expenses and what makes her different? Just because she owns a home, well I hate to break it to her, so do alot of other people, she isn’t unique in that aspect, set her straight, if she doesn’t like it then tough.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:33am)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:19am)
I agree 100%, Sokrates… the fact that he pays/she pays is such an issue is bizarre, and it screams volumes about the future of this relationship (or lack thereof). How can someone seriously consider her a “partner” while quibbling about whose money it is? It’s shared money, “yours”, plural.
Having said that, I completely understand why the OP is mighty pissed off, because Miss Moneygrabber is living up to her name here. She’s being a greedy cow about it all. She should be OFFERING to pay for things. Make it uncomfortable for her next time you eat at a restaurant, by firmly declaring it’s not your turn to pay this time. or just accidentally leave your wallet at home. Once she’s forced into coughing up some cash, maybe you’ll see some true colours come out.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (10:46am)
I’m with you, Sokrates. My fiance and I share expenses equally, granted we live together but even when we went it was an even split if the purchase benefited both of us. Occasionally I’ll pay for a night out, or he will. We’ve supported each other when one of us is going through a ‘financial rough patch’ but I would never expect him to foot the bill all the time, especially for my personal shopping!
OP - you’re been taken for a ride, make her pay her share!
(and web people, please fix the bold overload, I think you forgot to close a tag!)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (11:52am)
The relationship between user and used is not that of happy couple, Sok.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (12:37pm)
Just eat at that scottish restaurant with the golden arches.
It’s cheap.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (03:49pm)
Not everyone views the money in a relationship as collective. I’m married and I don’t. It’s not wrong to view it as separate, as long as both people in the relationship feel it’s equal and fair.
OP, that is obviously not the case so you need to be prepared to talk to her about it.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (04:07pm)
*does*
Yep you are helping finance her house.
I’m all for being romanced at the very start when I’m asked out or being “won over” (and I would say same thing if it was girl asking guy out), but that ends once you become a couple. After that you start sharing.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:36am)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (12:33pm)
That is a very good observation, Devious.
Perhaps Troubled should say to her 1) it is fair enough that they continue to share their resources 2) he will continue to pay for all the bills when they go out and 3) he would like to live in one of the two houses which she is buying (rent free) - which he is in effect financing.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (01:27pm)
Yes, you great gullible fool, you are paying off her houses. Do you have a share in these houses at the end of the road? No, of course not, so why should you help pay for them. Seriously, get the blinkers off and kick this manipulative user to the curb and let her find another sugar daddy. Sucker.
Bossy, the bold, the bold…
Mon 28 Feb 11 (03:15pm)
They don’t live together yet she has two houses, i wonder if she will let op move into second house for free while he still pay’s for holidays, movies,shopping ect. I’m sure she has the money saved up to cover repayments.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (03:33pm)
Or move in with her for 2 years to classify your relationship as defacto then split up and take half her assets - seemed to work for some women I’m aquainted with nicely.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (03:55pm)
I couldn’t agree more.
I actually had a very similar thing happen to me with an ex b/f. He had two houses/mortgages and all of his money went into them. So I paid all of our rent, bills, food and entertainment etc. I naively kept telling myself that if the situation was reversed he’d do the same for me. And I was wrong.
People can be incredibly selfish. When he sold one of the houses after just over a year, he walked away with 20 grand profit in his pocket. Basically my money as I’d been supporting him completely for the same period. After listening to all the plans he had for himself with the money, I tried to explain to him that at least half of it was mine. He completely baulked.
For some reason it was totally acceptable to him for all of his money to go into the mortgages and not only be saved, but making more money for him.... while all of my hard earned cash was flushed down the toilet.
It’s a pretty hard lesson to learn that someone that you think loves you would behave this way, but… there it is.
Stop paying. Explain it to her. If she doesn’t get it then she’s just a very selfish person who only cares for herself. And if that’s the case then sadly, you’re better off without her.
Good luck.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (04:10pm)
Well, if they’re been living together for more than 6 months then the government considers this a de facto relationship, and he will have a share in houses.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (05:51pm)
Kay, how long ago was this??
If you were living together then you are definitely entitled to half of his place, especially if you can prove you were supporting him!
Quite simply -you have to pay because you’ve put yourself in the situation.
Just tell her you’re not willing to pay for everything anymore. Stand up for yourself - are you man or mouse?
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:38am)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:25am)
lol you pretty much summed it up Queenie.
The reality is OP is you have given away any power that you had in the first place. She’s riding you hard with a big black strap on!
Its ridiculous how naive many people in the dating game are, especially men. Kids, heres the hot tip - only on the rare occasions, even at the beginning of a courtship, should the man pay for everything. You share power, build attraction, and then if you want to spoil your lover then go right ahead.
Any woman that expects that you should pay in resturants etc whilst dating is NOT worth dating. Its about respect for the other person and for yourself.
Also, if a man isnt trying to ‘buy’ his way into the life of a woman, subconsciously she respects him more and wants him more. After all, people want what they cant have. Its simple psychology.
OP, tell her how it is and how it will be. If she objects, regardless of your emotions, get rid of her. Aim for an independent woman who knows how to look after herself, and her lover....
Mon 28 Feb 11 (10:44am)
So true. As they say “you take the bins out once and you’re taking them out for the rest of your life.”
It’s unfortunate that SOME of these women want equality, but only when it suits them.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (11:58am)
Agreed - man up and stop paying for everything.
Are you batting out of your league and you know that if you put your foot down she will move on to another sucker that is willing to foot the bill?
Mon 28 Feb 11 (01:01pm)
Just so you all know, saying ‘man up’ is an attempt to shame a man into action by emasculating the alternatives. You would never use that approach on a woman so try something a bit more tactful.
As it stands, you are pretty much calling the OP a sissy for even getting into this situation.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:22pm)
@bystealth, I would say the same thing if it were a woman. I would just add a “wo” in front of “man”
Quite simply -you have to pay because you’ve put yourself in the situation.
Just tell her you’re not willing to pay for everything anymore. Stand up for yourself - are you man or mouse?
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:38am)
I’ve always shouted drinks because I like them drunk.
I think you should suck it up. Do everything in your power to apease her.
Tell her she looks pretty. Buy her (fake) diamonds. Marry her.
And then BAM!! Divorce the bitch and take half of her property. Get her pregnant with a mongoloid child and watch her world fall apart! You can stand back and bask in the warmth that emanates from you knowing you have more cunning than her.
hope this helps.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:39am)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:11am)
haha I ain’t sayin she’s a golddigger, but she don’t hang around no broke niggas.
Nice way of turning it around.
If she was 5 years older I would have thought he was going out with one of my exes.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:11am)
Sometimes you’re funny, potatoes. And sometimes you’re just a tool. Your diamonds were funny, your mongoloid comment was tool category.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:31am)
Yes OP, you could have a child just like potatoes. (For a troll you’re painfully boring by the way. You know how Robin Williams just shouts everything that comes into his head and spirals off into wild tangents in the hope he’ll make everyone laugh? That’s you, except you’re never funny and he was a massive cokehead.)
OP you need to speak up - she is already comfortable in the arrangement and will never come to the conclusion that you might tire of paying for everything. Make it clear you need to share responsibility for shared holidays etc. and she needs to pay for her own groceries, jeez.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:41am)
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Mon 28 Feb 11 (10:08am)
If you’re in WA you don’t even need to marry her to separate and take half her stuff apparently. But seems the OP likes and even loves the girls - and tensions about finances can be a deal breaker. Act now to level the playing field; her reaction will be a good gauge as to how you’ll fare on important relationship issues further down the line.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (10:42am)
ahahahahaha
Mon 28 Feb 11 (10:43am)
best advice ever
Mon 28 Feb 11 (10:52am)
Potatoes, I realise you are trying to be witty, but you are just being offensive.
Dude she’s gonna suck you dry. RUN!
This is what shits me about equality of the sexes. Women want equality, but they want all the perks of the man being the provider too.
Sincerely,
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:45am)
Tue 01 Mar 11 (09:41am)
Um hello? This chic is obviously not the norm, so that’s pretty big generalisation.
Next time she wants you to pay for something, just start calling her a prostitute.
I mean really, what’s the difference?
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:46am)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:31pm)
I totally agree with you Tim, OP should just put the money he would’ve spent on dates on her bedside table after sex. It’ll probably work out cheaper that way.
Tue 01 Mar 11 (11:18am)
Probably about the same difference as being a waitress in a strip bar.
Why is her generation remotely relevant? (And this girl is borderline Gen X by the way). My friends and I are Gen Y and we don’t even let guys buys us drinks at the bar. Why should they? They worked just as hard for their money as we did. But then I would never be as rude and presumptous as Bossy to assume that that behaviour characterised the tens of thousands of other Australian women in that age bracket.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:50am)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (01:35pm)
Kat, you are a minority.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (03:26pm)
Are you sure you’re Gen Y? You’re using grammar and capitals and correct spelling.
Please allow we Gen Xers to continue to bag out an entire generation based on stereotypes and fear of the new. The Baby Boomers did it to us, just like the Depression era generation did to them. And do you know why - because there’s nothing quite so much fun as getting up the nose of someone young and beautiful with their whole life ahead of them.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (04:04pm)
I’m a Gen Y and I hate men buying me drinks and shit like that. If I go on a date or go to a bar, I have my own money to spend. I worked hard for it, so I’m going to spend it how I want to. I’m not going to turn around and spend someone else’s, they worked hard for it and deserve to spend it on themselves. Quite simple really.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (04:18pm)
Kat do you tell yourself you don’t let guys buy you a drink at the bar, because no guy has ever even offered?
Keep eating fatty boombalada.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (04:51pm)
Some of us went to University and got ourselves some learnin’. And some of us are also grammar nazis who believe that the world would be a better place if those who are unable to distinguish between the correct usage of they’re/there/their were shot.
But thank you Rover, for your reply. I’m sure that in time I’ll learn to disparage those in Gen Z (? Is that what they’re going to be called? Then what Gen AA?) . I’m sure that a mixture of helicopter parenting and excessive time spent being monitored in day care will mean that they’ll be eternal children, unable to think for themselves or take responsibility for their actions. Yep. Feels good.
Taking her out and buying meals is courteous and a nice gesture.
I went out with a guy once who was happy to always pay for breakfast or dinners as he saw this as something he enjoyed doing (or as his role), but then in return was very happy to come over to my house and eat home cooked meals that I prepared.
He was totally happy with this - money, he had, culinary skills he did not. So ‘taking us out’ was his contribution.
HOWEVER in this case, always paying for her weekly shopping bill and all the petrol if you guys are always using your car, is not cool.
The only circumstances under which you should be doing this is if you were in a more serious relationship such as de facto or marriage and you were trying to do something together such as save for a house or baby, or she was at home (not working) pregnant or raising a child on one income.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:51am)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (03:41pm)
Well said.
When I was dating I always offered to pay my share of any meal, accommodation, etc. so your girlfriend and I are very different people right from the start.
When I was dating my now-husband, he insisted on paying for everything. This made me uncomfortable but he does earn quite a lot more than I do, so I learnt to accept it and say “Thank you” each time.
Does your girlfriend thank you when you pick up the tab? Or does she just accept it as her due?
Definitely have a chat with her and lay it all out in the open. Tell her that you don’t mind shelling out for meals, but you’d rather she take more responsibility for other costs, especially her groceries.
Good luck.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:52am)
Depending on how much you like the girl, you might like to spin this in a positive way: Sit her down and say “I really admire you for being so financially responsible at our age. I’m determined to follow your lead and put my money towards an investment. This will mean that we need to rethink some of our spending habits - cutting down on some of our spending and sharing the cost of treats more equally - but I’m sure you will agree it is the right thing to do”. Then next time you go out you can remind her - “given I am also saving for my investments, lets share this equally”.
And for goodness sake don’t offer or agree to put her name on your investments unless she does the same with hers!
Mon 28 Feb 11 (08:57am)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (02:53pm)
This is an excellent idea!! You tell her you’re increasing your share portfolio & you have the same excuse she has (investments). Let things cool for awhile (no expensive dinners or weekends away - avoid going to the shops with her & stop picking her up ‘ driving her around every weekend!!!) put the money you would usually be spending with/on her into your share portfolio & watch it grow. If she still stays you’ve made your point & the relationship may have a future. As it is she’s getting a free ride.
In my last relationship (of 4 years) he paid the majority of nights out, we split down the middle any travel & accommodation costs. Ideally, it would have been preferable for him to pay so I didn’t have to - but I’m not a bitch!!!
You’re driving her around every weekend?? WTF?! You’re paying for your car, the petrol, the maintenance costs, the insurance, the registration.... She’s putting her money into her investments & getting a free ride. She knows what she’s doing - she’s getting a free ride. Don’t bother with the “I feel that when....” chat—they never work. Cool things off, make your own investments, explain you have to cut back your spending & see if she sticks around. You can still go out to movies & restaurants - just go with friends who pay their own way - or pay for them to, whatever, you will have made your point
I think she needs to start pulling her wieght.
Like most problems this can really only be addressed by speaking to her directly. Explain you really can’t afford it, I’m surprised you can. I know I wouldn’t. You could always try the passive agressive approach by not taking her anywhere or take money out of your account so that when you go to pay for something it declines it. So she has to pay.
Wow, she’s just put women’s equality back a long way.
Each person in a couple is equal, in my opinion. So each person pays for their own thing, unless some agreement is made early on with who pays for what (this is more appropriate when a couple is living together).
I couldn’t have my husband pay for everything, I’d feel terrible
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:01am)
I think she needs to start pulling her wieght.
Like most problems this can really only be addressed by speaking to her directly. Explain you really can’t afford it, I’m surprised you can. I know I wouldn’t. You could always try the passive agressive approach by not taking her anywhere or take money out of your account so that when you go to pay for something it declines it. So she has to pay.
Wow, she’s just put women’s equality back a long way.
Each person in a couple is equal, in my opinion. So each person pays for their own thing, unless some agreement is made early on with who pays for what (this is more appropriate when a couple is living together).
I couldn’t have my husband pay for everything, I’d feel terrible
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:01am)
Oh man. Obviously, the main point of feminism - that women are equal - hasn’t got through to either you, OP or your girlfriend. Equality means equal opportunity but also equal responsibility. If you go out for dinner, unless it’s her birthday, split the bill. lf she’s cooking dinner, split the cost of food, and bring a bottle of wine. If you’re driving her everywhere, she gets to fill the tank every second fill-up.
Tell her that’s how it’s going to be from now on. If she doesn’t like it, then tell her, that’s fine, no more car rides, you’ll meet at the venue. She can buy her own ticket/drinks/dinner. You aren’t paying. And make it stick. Sooner or later the princess is going to either grow up, or move on to some other frog.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:09am)
OP,
When I was doing my second degree I was working part time and paying off two houses (okay - one I was renting out). My chick at the time was earning about 70-grand more than I was. Yet she expected me to pay for dinner/movies/whatever.
She would throw tantrums or threaten to withhold sex if I didn’t pay. And she used to come to my house and take my food home.
She looked at the payment method as a power trip. She got off on making me pay. So I started getting off with other chicks.
When I got rid of my tight ass chick I told her she offered me nothing that I couldn’t/wasn’t getting from someone else. I told her she would never be known as a materialistic women, because she was over qualified.
OP,
What you need to do is start charging her for sex. ‘I paid for dinner, you can pay me for penetration.’ Set a list of prices that matches the money you spent of dinner/driving her around. She will bitch and complain, but tell her you need to recoup your costs.
Hitting her in the hip pocket this way will help her understand.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:24am)
I weep for society today!
No doubt most posters will tell you to stop paying for everything. They will encourage you to tell your sweetheart to start paying for half of everything you do/eat/etc.
However, before you do this, I urge you to consider the non-financial contributions your girl makes to your life. For example, you stated that she cooks you meals. Even though you may be paying for the ingredients, she is still expending much time and effort in preparing a tasty, thoughtful meal for you.
Similarly, does she ever tidy your house? Has she ever ironed a shirt for you? Has she ever kneaded your back if you’ve pulled a muscle? Does she make the effort to always look immaculately beautiful for you? Do other fellows’ heads turn when they see her on your arm? Does she faithfully accompany you to places that may not particularly interest her, because she knows you like them?
I encourage you to consider these things, before closing your wallet.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:27am)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (01:24pm)
I really like this comment Ethel.
She might be providing him with a lot of other comforts that OP has dismissed because it does not come with a price tag.
Labour of love.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (04:00pm)
And maybe consider that he makes non financial contributions to her as well. Financial contributions should never be balanced by non financial ones because that leads to the resentment of one person not paying their way
Mon 28 Feb 11 (04:00pm)
And maybe consider that he makes non financial contributions to her as well. Financial contributions should never be balanced by non financial ones because that leads to the resentment of one person not paying their way
Mon 28 Feb 11 (05:44pm)
Whilst we do not definitely know this is the case, before condeming the girlfriend we should take this comment into consideration.
These are definitely the typical kinds of problems couples will face, is it wrong to keep tabs on things like that? I’m not sure - I guess the best thing to do is communicate with each other and define some boundaries around this kind of stuff.
STOP paying for everything. I’m a firm believer in paying (or at least offering to pay) on the first few dates, but you’ve been with your girlfriend for over a year now and it’s time for your girlfriend to pay her share of the expenses that you’re jointly incurring.
IF your girlfriend truly cannot afford to dine-out at restaurants, go away for holidays, etc then you’ll need to decide whether you’re happy to keep paying for such activities or whether you’re willing to down-grade the restaurants to McDonalds and the holidays to camping in the backyard until your girlfriend is in a better position financially.
Good luck.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:28am)
Awesome opening line Bossy!
I think what she is doing is wrong, I could never let a guy do all that for me without being riddled with guilt. My boyfriend and I share everything equally, ill pay sometimes, he’ll pay the next, its not at all calculated as there might be a week where I grab the groceries, lunch while we are out, all sort of things, and there might be a time when he does. Its completely equal.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:28am)
Marry her. If you get divorced, you get a house. If you stay together, you get 2 houses.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:38am)
Mon 28 Feb 11 (03:51pm)
Haha… love it!
Mon 28 Feb 11 (06:04pm)
Doesn’t always work out that way for men, the law still favors the female side, if it was the other way around, no doubt the female will be absolutely entitled to the assets. Equality...yeah right. If she can afford 2 houses she can afford her own expenses, why should the man pay for everything when he earns less.
Um, seriously, grow some balls and tell her to start chipping in. She is using you for your cash. If you consent to her doing this now, she’s going to financially run you into the ground.
Mon 28 Feb 11 (09:41am)