She says I did the wrong thing by using a dating site while I was dating her.

/agree

She probably thought you were playing hard to get or something.

For the record women, we mean what we say, we’re not like you gals who play games or hard to get.

For the rest saying, oh dont use RSVP etc etc. Screw that. If your honest about your intentions, and there ain’t no spark. But your good friends and willing to step up to FWBs. Knock youself out.

Oh now come on Rabbit, not all men mean what they say (just like not all women play games).

I understand exactly why this woman has acted the way she did.

What I find curious is that the majority of posters imply that it is the man’s responsibility to manage the woman’s emotions for her. Eg. ‘he should man up and end things’.

Why is it his resposibility? She is an adult and by telling the OP that it’s ‘his fault’ implies that she is not equally at fault in the miscommunication and cannot manage her own emotions or take the rational action required to look after her own emotional health (eg breaking up).

This is belittling to women and its a double standard. If the guy was her friend and wanted to change the status of their relationship to something more and she didn’t, but he was getting twisted up inside, people would be telling the guy to man up and stop being friends with her.

I know and have dated men who play games.

Having said that, I agree you told her what you thought and she interpreted that in her own little way. She heard what you said but most likely thought well maybe he will just like me the more he hangs out with me, we’ll have this amazing connection and eventually he’ll realise he can’t be without me and we’ll fall in love and get married. She probably only said she agreed he wasn’t for her so she didn’t look like she was putting all her feelings into this, but there’s a good chance she is.

My current partner sort of did the same thing. He said we are together now but I’m leaving in a few months so this can’t be forever. He didn’t leave, we fell in love and 4 years later we are having a baby together. But I am the exception, not the rule and these women need to learn that 9 times out of 10, they are the rule. It sucks but you have take what these men are saying at face value.

@ByStealth - give me f@#$ing a break, if you’re looking that hard for double standards you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, which implies there isn’t anything else more important for you to worry about.
Your asserted double standard and the evidence you use to support it is a load of rot.
The responsibility is always with the person we are advising. After all, what the hell is the point telling him what other peoples obligations to him are, what other people should be doing to manage his expectations for him? He asked for the advice, so people are telling HIM ways he can try to “manage” (I know you love the condescension implicit in this term) the womans expectations. Managing her emotions? That’s your invention, no doubt appealing to you because of how invasive and presumptuous it sounds. If he were asking about a relationship with a man, we would tell him the same things. If a woman asked about a relationship with man, we would advise her about how she can “manage” her side of the relationship with this man.

Go and deal with some real issues, feminists like you make my blood boil with the convoluted and ridiculous logic you use in so many of your accusations against society and men.

Yes, By Stealth, we’d tell the guy to man up if he was the one writing in. But if it was the girl writing in “Oh my friend who I only ever cuddle, we’re just friends, now wants us to get together” the majority would tell her to stop playing with the poor bloke’s feelings.

Probably one of those women who thought she could win him over! haha

OP, Bossy is definately right though, she heard something completely different to what you meant! Just be honest and tell her you want a fuck buddy, if she is cool with that, great, if not, too bad so sad.

If you were just friends with benefits, OP, you DO NOT go on a holiday with her and her friends. That’s an idicator you are in an exclusive relationship. Seriously? Fuck buddies are just that. You only have sex. Not take a scuba diving holiday with her and 20 of her closest girlfriends. Jeeeeeeeez! Mixed signals much? You aren’t in the wrong as such, because you told her what you wanted from this ‘situation’, but this is your fault because actions speak louder than words.

And if you’re looking for a shag, you don’t use RSVP - that is a dating site. Again, actions speaking louder than words. Clarify your intentions and perhaps, next time, when searching for commitment free sex, try your local brothel.

If you were just friends with benefits, OP, you DO NOT go on a holiday with her and her friends.

T, don’t you go away on holidays with your friends?

No difference. Friends go away together with friends.

Friends do things together.

That’s the “friends” in “friends with benefits”.

Wake up.

Thanks T for replying to my post.  However next time try and make it relevant to something I’ve said rather highjacking my post because its somewhere near the top and gives you the chance to post some diatribe above everybody elses. I find it quite poor manners.  I would also appreciate no swearing in the reply posts. Bossy you need to moderate these twats - its called reply for a reason.

Potatoes - apologies, I read Lord Squirrelson’s reply and found my thoughts to be relevant to that. (That the girl didn’t hear something different, but was gauging this ‘situation’ by his actions)I noticed that Lord S’s post is also irrelevant to yours…
I have been posting on here for months and have never highjacked anyone’s post before. Again. Apologies.

T Rebutter. No, I don’t go away on holidays with friends. We go on holidays with our partners. If I didn’t want to give someone the wrong idea and make them beleive we were something more than just casual sex partners, I wouldn’t go away with them on a holiday. You can’t have a friendship plus exclusive, commited, bonding time away with her and her friends plus sex and honestly believe she will see that as non-commital.

I’ve done this too Julie, so dont worry! I must say I am glad that I only did it once and once only. One time too many though!

I agree completely, women say they are cool with certain things but they often aren’t when they find out it meant something different than what they anticipated.

Julie’s done it, I’ve done it and this lady has also done it.

I think the OP did enough to make this clear to her verbally, but we have all heard that “actions speak louder than words” and by going on a holiday with this woman and her friends, plus whatever other actions you have done as well, she may have thought you were coming around to having a relationship with her.

If you’re going to continue to sleep with women you have no intention of having a relationship with, be more careful about the things you DO that given them the wrong idea instead of just relying on your verbal get-of-relationship-free clause.

And I have done it, too. Women often just hope that the guy will fall in love after a while. Men should understand that women frequently trade sex for love or the hope of it.

Yep, once only for me too...now married to a guy who loves me and i realise now how crap the other idiot was.

Thats really confusing and its making my head hurt chihuahua.

You are glad you did it once.  Glad you did it ONLY once.  But once was too much?

So with a woman dangling sex as a carrot to get the man in a relationship and the man dangling the relationship as a carrot to get sex, who is in the wrong?

They are both working towards their own agendas and are equally at fault or in the right.

I don’t buy into this implication that men are wrong, sleazy or dirty for being honest in their pursuit of sex. Their intentions and actions are for their own benefit, but that doesn’t mean they want to hurt girls, care nothing about the girls’ feelings or that there is zero emotional affection towards them.

Some guys are just not as good at handling their partner’s emotions as some girls are. Also some girls are very very bad at keeping their own emotions in check.

lol sorry Paul, I meant that I did it once and I am glad it was only the ONE time and not made the mistake many times more. One time too many though as I should never have let it happen in the first place! I hope that made better sense lol

Now this rings a bell. 

I was doing the same thing with a girl once, I kept saying that we weren’t exclusive and she kept saying I know.  Yet we went on holidays, went out to dinner with her friends and mine, etc.

I guess the difference is I married my girl, and it was me who had to win her over.

Marissa- Actions do speak louder than words. But friends with benefits are exactly that. Friends, that have the benefit of sex. Simply put, he acted like a friend.

Ladies, if a guy is open and honest about this type of thing and you agree to be in it, even though you don’t want to, you are the idiot, not him

Yes!  Well said.

Spot on Shane

Shane - you missed the point. It seems by her agreeing (at least at first) that they were not each other’s ideals, it clearly says, FWBs (friends with benefits). She allowed her head to be messed with.

If they’re both happy to have something not serious why is it an issue? Two people can enjoy each other’s company without committment.

The thing is, this girl is clearly after committment (despite saying she doesn’t want this guy long term). So now there is a decision to be made.

I think the “poor woman” in this case has a responsibility to be honest with herself and this guy.

Right on!

Johnny,

I didn’t miss the point at all.  Sure, at the beginning it was ok to be friends with benefits, but generally speaking (note the word generally, it’s not an invitation to get bagged because a few women are happy with that arrangement), women do not like to be treated as warm wet spots for very long. 

It doesn’t matter what the rules were, there’s obviously been a change of rules in her head, it doesn’t make her a bad person, it means the rules changed in her head as she formed an attachment.

She didn’t ask for her feeling s to change, but they did, she didn’t allow her head to be messed with, it just happened. 

Now it’s time for him to man up and either dump her so it doesn’t get worse for her, or stop treating her like a B Grader.

One of the unfortunate aspects to internet dating is that so many people on those sites keep looking after they have commenced dating.  It’s like they are always looking for the elusive perfect partner.

Guess what kids, that perfect partner doesn’t exist.  We are all flawed, and it’s those flaws that make us individuals.

Shane, I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but why is it his responsibility to end things?

Say you are friends with a girl and she’s made it clear verbally you will never be anything more. After a few too many nights sitting closely on a couch watching romantic comedies with her you realise you have feelings for her and tell her you’re in love with her. She is upset because you changed the rules in your head. Is it now her responsibility to stop seeing you and dumping you as a friend because you changed the way you looked at her?

Just a hypothetical. I think that adults are responsible for their own emotional health.

1. There is no template to life, and no template to love, so have a fuck buddy, or a casual relationship (one in which you are in love with each or not), or even marry someone, but in each one of those scenarios it is always necessary to mutually connect honestly and respectfully.

2. Perfect partner, or ‘Miss right’, will be a different partner at different times. She might be the perfect partner for you at this time, and vice versa, even if in six months it means to move on. For further information, see point 1.

3. I agree, never treat someone as better or worse, but you can always recognise, for you, better or worse compatibility and connection. For further information, see point 1.

4. Having a fuck buddy or casual relationship is not just about physical connections (or wet spots), its also about emotional and intellectual stimulation. I dont know from experience, but i dont think sex dolls come with those functions. For further information, see point 1.

5. When looking for a life partner, try to align your wants to your needs. One of the most empowering things you can ever do in life is really connect with what you need, in both your partner and in general growth, instead of letting pointless expectations and soul-destroying desires dictate your mind and your body. For more information, see point 1

Shane you have it utterly and completely backwards.

If every guy waited around for the “right woman” we’d all be virgins until our wedding night.

That is not how to do it and only sets you up for disappointment and failure because you have no clue how to handle yourself or a relationship.

Yeah, this incident is the cause for the two of them to talk together.

But like you said- the rules changed in HER head so it is HER responsibility to communicate to him or choose to end it.

It’s not his responsibility to monitor her thoughts in case she changes her mind.

Wow shane, Your on almost as much crack as CTT used to be ...

So her unintentional feelings that changed towards a fuckbuddy is the guys fault, he should have seen it comming and cut her loose, you are insane, do you have a vagina by chance ? yet another one that thinks we can read minds.

Even if i could read minds i wouldnt lay down and be expected to rely on my ability to solve the worlds problems, this robotic world is full of cause and effect, action and reaction, contract and compliance.

Having said all that, being that you now know she has an issue with it you should obviously confront her about it and say you thought the relationship was just 2 people having fun together no strings and as it appears she is applying the strings its likely best you go your seperate ways.

It doesn’t matter whose responsibility it is who ends it.  But if one person feels something and the other doesn’t, then it should be ended by whoevers capable.  The girl might be head over heels and doesn’t want to let him go, in that case he should end it so she can heal and find somebody else.

OP - If she does feel this way and you don’t, end it.  Don’t screw up this girls head anymore for the sake of getting your dick wet.

It’s not necessarily his fault, nor is it necessarily his responsibility.  However, if he continues to root her knowing that she’s hanging around hoping for him to change his mind then it becomes a case of him deliberately playing with her emotions.

That isn’t fair (yeah I know, life isn’t always fair blah blah blah).

So he now has a moral responsibility not to be unfair to another human being. 

It’s not about no-one ever getting laid, personally I think chicks should, as a group of people, put out a hell of a lot more, but that doesn’t mean that it’s ok to play with someone’s head.

Look people, fuck buddies are just that, you have them around to sleep with and thats about it. They are the sort you wouldnt date (too old/young, to dumb, too big ego etc) but you find physically attractive. If they are meeting you friends/family thats a bit full on, I mean what do you tell people?

There is NO such thing as friends with benefits as someone already does or will end up wanting more.

So this situation that tanspired is not her fault and it is not his fault. BUT it is both their problem and they have to talk to each other about it. Which I doubt is happening since the OP is asking Bossy looking for justification to annul his sense of guilt.

lol, well said. I wa thinking the same thing when I read

‘Hit it of immediately as both friends and lovers’

OP what EXTRA are you waiting for ??

A tight, hot body to make it the Trifecta ??

I am older than you OP more than likely, and I can tell you now if you find someone hot enough to make you keep going back for intimate relations with them, and you are friends and feel accepted for who you are on a whole, That is what is needed to make a good, solid union .

You are looking to upgrade, hmmm maybe you already have the best grade and are about to throw it away.

The fact all this is bothering you, speaks volumes to me. Men don’t tend to get worked up about people they don’t care for, which leads me to believe your feelings ‘may’ have deepened since you last took stock of them.

Or is it really ONLY guilt talking ??
Only you know ,

Just saying ....

Hmmmm its this sort of attitude, Lawyerbird and tash girl, which is indicative of the majority of ‘unions’ ending in divorce. I’ve had several casual relationships over the years in which i was in love with the girl, but i was honest enough to myself, and my partner, that i didnt see it as for life.

You want to know, to really know, before you think about that big step. I mean its meant to be for life isn’t it? Well thats the goal i suppose. You might be attracted to them, impressed and moved by them, even love them etc, but if something deeper doesnt force you to scream your devotion to them from on top of a big fucking mountain, then you’re only fooling yourself, as well as the partner, if you settle for something that isn’t better or worse, but just not you.

Don’t get me wrong, you might have too higher expectations, or you might end up dying alone, but at least you committed to finding that true reflection, that other half. I recently overcame some silly little insecurities myself to eventually realise I had the most perfect woman in the world (for me) screaming my name from the top of that mountain. Now I’m doing the same, thank fuck, before i lost her....

As usual I agree with you, Doctor. I know you feel you haven’t done anything wrong, but people go on RSVP to find someone special. You’re enjoying rooting her, but that sometimes comes with consequences.

internet dating:  is simply a way to find, contact & potentially meet people with similar likes / dislikes / values etc to you. 

It also saves spending 20mins in a bar talking to a girl, only to see her boyfriend / husband / girlfriend roll up.  Laughs ... almost my first question now is “are you single” or something along those lines.

Once you meet in real life ... you still have to have chemistry / polite / respect and get on well for it to progress further - then who cares how you first got in contact with each other?

Being comfortable meeting and talking to women, even if only to meet a new friend, is the key to success. It keeps you on your toes, and keeps your skills fresh and up to date.

You can’t get that on a computer screen.

Yeah, I agree. That was the turning point in the story for me. That’s when she turned from FWB to partner. Even if you didn’t say anything, that’s how she read it.

Agreed, that’s a real slap in the face!

Op,

You may have stated that you were not settling into a relationship but your actions said otherwise. You do not go on holidays with someone you are seeing on a casual basis.

Wheteher you meant to or not you have clearly given the lady mixed signals and that’s not fair.

You are such a tool shiner

OP, after thinking a bit more about this, I can pinpoint where you went wrong.

You called her the fling, but treated her like the gf (ie, the holiday).  I had a fling do that to me once - he called me the fling, then introduced me to his friends, and his father (!) as ‘the girlfriend’.

You can imagine my confusion… like I said, relationship Aspergers.

A cousin of mine introduces every girl he meets to his parents - then they cluck and talk about how “Ooh, she’s the daughter I never had...”

They average about 6-8 ‘daughters’ a year.  Actually, 2010 was particularly fruitful.

Next time you want her to be just the fling, don’t deliberately introduce her to your mates, your family, or go on dirty weekends away.  Anyone you do accidently run into, introduce her as friend only.  If you want to ramp it up a notch and graduate her to gf, then you can start introducing these things.  Either way, keep the message clear.  VERY clear.  Either she’ll be happy to be your FB, or she’ll get pissed off by your lack of committment and move on.  Do’t look for ways to string her along though.  If you want commitment free sex buy one of those rubber vagina thingys that vibrate, from a sex shop.

I agree with Elphaba. He needs to be congruent between what he is telling her and what he is doing with her. Weekends away with her friends was a bit much I think for something.

I think where he went wrong is that because he had verbalised what he wanted, he thought he could give things a bit more leeway. He could do relationship-y things because ‘she knew’ where they really stood.

Logically, what he did should have worked fine. Emotionally, he’s subcommunicating that their relationship might be moving forward.

Women see it more from the emotional side and men see it more from the logical side. As usual, they were communicating on two different channels.

Thanks, ByStealth.

I would never ever introduce the fling to family or friends.  When it happened to me (me being introduced to his), I never had any time to prepare for it, otherwise I would have said a resounding “No”.

I’m sure the OP means well - but women will search everything he says for something to hang their hat on and justify continuing the farce.

In the case of my cousin, I think he’s just waiting for his folks to hate one of the girls he brings home - and that’ll be the one he marries.

Spell.  It.  Out.  Words to live by, OP.

I agree 99.9%

One thing though, people keep saying for example

“If you want commitment free sex buy one of those rubber vagina thingys that vibrate, from a sex shop.”

Why is it soooo unreasonable to want to have commitment free sex with a human ?

Like seriously, here i thought it was 2010. I’ll have to check the calendar.

BroG, there’s nothing wrong with him wanting committment free sex, so long as he doesn’t blur the lines by going on holidays with her.  We women will interpret that as things moving to another level, guaranteed. 

Whether he likes it or not, it is very hard to have both - which makes me wonder than unless he is absolutely positively clear with her and follows what I set out about, maybe sex with a toy is less messy emotionally.

Likewise, if the bloke has been honest, she can’t hope for more.  If he says no, 99.9% of the time, it will always be a no (see exception further up the page^^).

These things rarely end well - THAT is the truth.

I agree Elphaba, all I could think when I read this, was what kind of idiot woman would agree to stay with a guy that told her your not a long term prospect for me? I think women need to have a little more dignity and respect for themselves, if a man tells you to your face you are there to entertain him, tell him where to stick it. And OP don’t be shocked that she is upset its not too difficult to fall for a man that you spend so much time with. Either commit or let her go.

No.  I used RSVP years ago and used to look up people I was dating to see if their profile was still up…

Internet dating is bad.  It’s better to meet people organically.

But if people never get off their electronic devices and social media, how are they going to meet people organically?

Turquoise—um, it says they went on a trip with “her” friends, not “his”. If she invited him along, and he graciously accepted, that’s her issue.

How would you find your “one” when you’re not putting out the feelers?

Jen - um, if he was seeing her just for the sex, why graciously accept any sort of invitation to spend exclusive, commited time with her and her friends? HE idicated it was a relationship. You don’t spend quality time with a casual shag. It’s his issue. Me thinks he may care about her more than he lets on. If he didn’t, why not just dump her instead of constructing an email to a blog asking for advice and people’s opinion if he’s ‘in the wrong’?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

T,
this is where women sometimes make mistakes with men.
If we say something, we mean it.
If we say we want something casual and then go on a holiday with you, it doesn’t mean we are secretly in love with you - we might just like scuba holidays.
If women used verbal communication more, a lot of these relationship problems would disappear overnight.

Turquoise and T- Friends with benefits are exactly that. People who do stuff together who like to shag.

A relationship can entail whatever two people agree to. Clearly she agreed to something she couldn’t handle. No biggie- now she can end it if she’s not happy.

Exactly, T.

When she invited him on the scuba trip, he should have said something like,

“Look I’d like to come as it sounds like fun and you’re a nice lady, but I just want to make sure you’re asking me as a friend not a boyfriend,”

OR “I’m not sure I should come and meet your friends. You deserve to be with a guy that you can introduce as your boyfriend to your friends and I’m very sorry that I can’t give you that, so perhaps it’s best you ask someone else to go along.”

Actually, you know what your problem is OP?

You have no empathy.

If that’s the case Turquoise, I think a lot of men have no empathy.

@ T He feels bad because he can’t understand why she is acting like this when he was honest with her. Yes, he’s worried he hurt her unnecessarily and wants to know why so he doesn’t do it again.

It does NOT mean he has deep feelings for this girl and people shouldn’t try to read into things like that.

I know because I’ve been in his situation in the past. With good intentions I once told a girl ‘I’m seeing other people’ and surprise surprise it blew up in my face. I went on a fact finding mission to understand why and I felt bad, not because I liked her that much, but because I thought I’d hurt her and I don’t like hurting people.

@ Tim You’re right mate.

I find it funny that there’s an expectation that men should learn how women think and need to understand them, when women really don’t spend any time understanding us.

Empathy and subcommunication is something women are naturally born with. Men usually have to develop those skills artificially and it can take a lot of time and effort. There’s an assumption these are the REAL ways of communicating and that overt, verbal, rational language is pretty much useless in relationships.

Why don’t women take time to understand mens’ real motivations and ways of communicating? Its a two way street ladies; We will try to speak your language if you try to speak ours yeah?

Especially since ‘reiterating’ the fact that she was ‘not the one’ or ‘the ideal’ and the holiday, there was a whole month of seeing each other and spending time together, without another reiteration. Plus a scuba diving holiday and meeting her friends. Turquoise is right - there’s a huge difference between ‘you’re not the one and I don’t see a future for us’ and ‘you’re not the one, we are not exclusive and I will be on the prowl for other woman while we are casually sleeping together’

Women are from Earth.......

Well put Mistress D!

I had something like this once, I was seeing a guy and we agreed that we werent interested in eachother as anymore than F buddies, if someone we wanted to be serious about came along then we were to go for it, but just tell one another first.  We hung out together all the time and I spent a lot of time with the guy on a weekly basis (we shared mutual friends so we hung out a lot), I just wasnt interested in anything more.  It worked well! He met someone a few months later, he let me know and that was that.

We were very clear the whole time though with what was going on, I suppose thats why it worked out ok.

I think it comes down to the definition of relationship. Technically speaking, two people interacting in any capacity is a relationship. Whereas with women, often the word relationship entails ‘exclusive’.

Personally, I like the idea of two people who like to do stuff together, including but not limited to sex, even though they see no long term romantic connection.

Of course it becomes blurred if he’s looking for a serious partner as well, instead of just having fun.

Smidgeling, you’re right. (Bet you thought those words would never be spelled out by this Feminazi fingers, eh?)What constitutes a ‘relationship’ is really only limited by the two people in it.

Unless people are open, the way Chihuahua describes, we’re going to keep having these fall outs.

Nah, Mistress, I’m confident people will agree with some of my logic sometimes.

I think the problem is that men are rarely completely open about how casual it is and women too often say casual is ok when it clearly isn’t.

I think the problem is that men are rarely completely open about how casual it is and women too often say casual is ok when it clearly isn’t.

Spot on.

Although...have been in ‘relationships’ where I would’ve happily kept it casual however the guy decided to play weird games and lines got very blurred. I don’t think it’s gender specific - some people just really like to manipulate others.

Exactly what I was thinking Captain.

Yeah I thought WTF too! Does she mean ‘I know who I’m going to marry’ kinda like how my daughter knew she was going to marry George Clooney when she grew up?

She’s obviously not saving herself for this mystery man that she KNOWS she’s going to marry.

Nutter....