ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE NOT WELCOME IN TOWER HAMLETS
English Defence League fascist thugs bring violence to Tower Hamlets
Up to 20 EDL thugs came to Whitechapel yesterday afternoon and attacked a Pakistani stallholder. They yelled racist insults and threatened to
attack the East London Mosque.
Eye witness Dilwara Ali was getting off a bus to do some shopping in the Whitechapel market when she saw a group of white men shouting insults about “Pakis” and “We are the EDL”. Then she saw them attack the stallholder before being chased back into Whitechapel station. A number of police vans arrived and police drew batons, allowing the EDL thugs to proceed through the station and back on to a tube train.
“This demonstrates the complete folly of the council’s claim that the threat from the EDL has gone away,” said Abjol Miah, the former leader of the Respect Group on Tower Hamlets council. “The council targeted the conference which the EDL were ostensibly going to protest against on Sunday. As a result of the cancellation of that conference under council pressure, the EDL have been emboldened, declaring it a victory for them.
“Far from going away, they have now come to Tower Hamlets to attack members of the Muslim community. The fact is that conference was always a smokescreen. The EDL’s real target was always the East London Mosque and the London Muslim Centre, which is hosting the Annual General Meeting of the Muslim Council of Britain on Sunday, and of course the Muslim community in general.”
Abjol Miah continued: “That is why we are right to have continued with our march on Sunday under the banners of United East End and Unite Against Fascism, despite the council and new MP for Bethnal Green and Bow Rushanara Ali asking us to call it off. We have to have the largest possible peaceful march to tell the EDL they will never be welcome in Tower Hamlets.”
See also Liam Mac Uaid
Well Abjol, it was your mates in IFE and the other extremists you associated with that have made Tower Hamlets a mecca for Islamic extremists that have brought the EDL not only to Tower Hamlets but intio existence in the first place.
I pointed this out on the Bangladeshi Channel S last night and it didn’t seem to go down that well with the presenter and Glynn Robbins but who cares. United East End is yet another mainfestation of the SWP and Islamists in the same fragile partnership that was Respect. I am glad that sensible voices prevailed and the Troxy meeting was cancelled. You of course were disappointed that your opportunity for a punch up was frustrated so you will have to make do with a pathetic wander around the East End. That’s much better than arrests and injuries.
Comment by terry fitz — 16 June, 2010 @ 10:48 am
#1.
“Well Abjol, it was your mates in IFE … that have brought the EDL not only to Tower Hamlets but intio existence in the first place.”
Absolute nonsense - the EDL aren’t a legitimate political organisation, they’re a racist movement intent on stirring up bigotry and making attacks (both critiscm and physical violence) on Muslims acceptable.
You should be ashamed of what you’ve said, you’re blaming the victims of racist violence for causing that violence in the first place.
Comment by Barry — 16 June, 2010 @ 11:25 am
As I understand it the IFE conference is cancelled and so is the EDL demo so exactly what are ‘United East End’ busing in people to actually do other than engage in gesture politics.
Genuine local groups have already made it clear that neither the EDL or the conference would welcome in their area and were prepared to oppose both. They were absolutely correct to do so.
In view of where we are the ‘United East End’/SWP march is pointless and possibly even counter productive.
Comment by Eddie — 16 June, 2010 @ 11:34 am
What will the EDL have to do or say before they are banned??
They are full of hatred and bored hooligans and bnp loosers.
Comment by Mickey p — 16 June, 2010 @ 11:41 am
Just to correct the concern troll @ #3 (11.34): “Local groups” are the very ones that have insisted on the march going ahead.
The only “local group” that wants the march cancelled is the Labour Party machine, with the local MP and local council leadership putting all the blame on the conference and none of it on the EDL.
Yesterday’s events, when EDL members came to Whitechapel expressly to push around local brown people, should make the council reconsider.
As for Terry Fitz, as soon as you start blaming the victims, you’ve lost all right to call yourself an anti-racist. But then, anyone who threatens people with violence as often as you do probably doesn’t have even the slightest clue what racism is or who the victims are.
Comment by tony collins — 16 June, 2010 @ 11:45 am
EDL are thugs and thier actions can never be justified
EDL announced plans to hit tower hamlet months ago…. This is nothing to do with the confrence- which as been used as a scape goat
Comment by Mickey p — 16 June, 2010 @ 11:49 am
Tony Collins,
I have forty year track record in fighting racism and fascism which everyone in the East End and across the anti fascist movement knows. The only so called community groups that are calling for the march are the IFE and the SWP and of course at the recent elections both were humiliated. The leader of this facade is Abjol Miah who lost his seat when the IFE section of Respect were destroyed by the electorate of Tower Hamlets.
I also wiped the floor with leading SWPer Glynn Robbins on Bangladeshi TV last night and the challenge is on the floor to the presenter and former Lib Dem candidate Ajmal Masroor to host a TV debate on the whole question of the IFE and the attempts of the failing SWP front UAF to stir up racial hatred in the East End.
Comment by terry fitz — 16 June, 2010 @ 12:36 pm
Seriously, Terry, you’re out of the picture on this one.
You have to realise that whatever you may have done in the past, your actions over the last few years have done nothing for the anti-racism cause in Tower Hamlets. You see the SWP as your main enemy, and you blame Muslims for the racism directed against them. That, and you mirror the EDL/BNP in claiming that anyone who is against you must either be in the SWP or in UAF (”thick trot cunt” is an insult you share with the EDL).
You therefore have nothing to add in this matter - and the fact that your friends on the council blamed the conference for the EDL as well, shows that you’re also out of touch with what’s going on.
You’re completely wrong about Glyn, by the way. He’s not a member of the SWP, “leading” or otherwise. You might want to consider this: You got that one thing so badly wrong, maybe you’re wrong on other things.
The move for this march and for resisting the EDL has come from all the local unions, as well as community groups, the SWP and Respect. It’s a pretty united approach that only the local Labour machine is against.
You’re on the wrong side of this one. I’ll be charitable and ask you to consider that maybe the way you fight racism needs to change, and that regardless of whether you think the IFE is the Big Bad or not, maybe you need to recognise that in order to defeat racism and fascism, you have to work with people you dislike, instead of blaming them for the problem in the first place.
Comment by tony collins — 16 June, 2010 @ 12:56 pm
Tony- people like Terry fitz are never wrong.
Comment by Evan — 16 June, 2010 @ 1:05 pm
After the British Government have given the green light to Israel that it can get away with attacking British citizens in neutral international waters, Israeli racist neo-Nazi supporters attack Palestine Solidarity on the streets of Britian -
The Fascist EDL Attacks Birmingham Palestine Solidarity Campaign Stall
Tony Greenstein’s Blog
16 June 2010
Maybe the British Government can use this as an excuse to ban Palestine Solidarity from public spaces becasue its a source of disorder -
- much like some are trying to persuade the American Government that Turkish-International Palestine Solidarity is a source of terrorist disorder in neutral international waters and should be proscribed and banned.
PS
The British Establishment has also used the court system to attack Scottish PSC on trumped up charges of ‘aggravated racism’ becaused they dare to challange, in public, British Government foreign policy of supporting the racist war crime state of Israel.
Some in Westminster are busily working to try to protect Israeli official in Britian from prosecution by having the laws of ‘Universal Jurisdiction abolished.
See the two comments on this thread for more info -
Robert Halfon Conservative MP for Harlow - EDM 108 and EDM 127
JustPeaceUK
08/09 June 2010
Comment by joe kane — 16 June, 2010 @ 1:37 pm
#5. Please don’t try that flannel.
There are no local groups calling for the march on Sunday to go ahead. It is only the SWP and their fellow travellers. For example here is what the WAG part of Whitechapel United Against Division (made up of local people and activists) have to say:
The UNITED AGAINST FASCISM (UAF) political machinery will storm ahead this Sunday 20th June marching against… erm… well no one… From the outset the UAF stitched up the Tower Hamlets mobilisation, a great write up from the AWL gives you a taster of exactly how, and they themselves can be accused of stirring up fear and hysteria within the local community. The morally bankrupt Left would sooner jump into bed with dodgy elements like the IFE (Islamic Forum of Europe) denying that the speakers at the Troxy were in anyway divisive, and in fact shouting down anyone who raised this issue as islamaphobic, thus stifling progressive elements within the Muslim communities of east London. Local pressure to get the conference cancelled and highlighting Council corruption forced Tower Hamlets to pull the plug on the event, while the English Defence League (EDL) claimed this as a victory and pulled out of their demonstration, the true victory comes down to all those concerned locals and activists who got the conference cancelled keeping away both the unwelcomed speakers and the EDL. Yet the UAF are still advertising the fact that blood drinking, baby eating fascists are coming and will be stopped with a “peaceful” march under the rhetoric of “The Battle Of Cable Street”. One big pose basically!
And after the 20th this will continue into Wembley on the 26th June with the UAF mobilising – or should that be parachuting students – against the EDL who themselves are protesting against a “Peace” Conference which includes such delightful speakers as Zakir Naik – a deeply reactionary preacher who has fatwa’s placed against him by other Muslims! Once again the UAF will remain silent about the conference speakers, taking no position at all, and more concerned with their national organisation and recruiting for the Party (SWP) with the EDL as a figure of opposition.
All of these three groups – Bigoted Islamist Speakers, Flag Waving EDL, Double thinkers of the UAF – are all as divisive as each other! And will no doubt continue chasing each other around the country with no concern for the communities they whip up a frenzy amongst. For us as a group – made up predominantly of working class East End locals – we will continue with the “dog shit politics” of working within and organising amongst our own communities as the onslaught of the Con-Dem government cuts looms over our heads.
Comment by Eddie — 16 June, 2010 @ 1:57 pm
Here is that link again -
Robert Halfon Conservative MP for Harlow - EDM 108 and EDM 127
JustPeaceUK
08/09 June 2010
all the best
Comment by joe kane — 16 June, 2010 @ 2:00 pm
Tony Collins,
I have no idea who you are but ” Thick Trot Cunt ” certaitly seems to apply to you. I have never heard of you and you definately have no idea of what is or has happened in Tower Hamlets. Glynn Robbins is a member of the SWP and they are most certainly the enemy as far as racial harmony is concerned in the East End.
They are a sad bunch of losers whose every project over the last few years has failed. They are now trying one last time to, in their totally opportunistic way, move in and claim that there is a grassroots movement against the EDL.
I stand on my track record of opposing fascism, particularly in the East End, and because of that I am opposed to the SWP and its front groups winding up young Bangladeshis to riot which is going on as we speak. I am just off Brick Lane and older more sensible Bangladeshis are appalled by what is happening.
Eddie, good post. I don’t know who you are but you are talking sense.
Comment by terry fitz — 16 June, 2010 @ 2:32 pm
#13
“Glynn Robbins is a member of the SWP ”
no he isn’t
Comment by Andy Newman — 16 June, 2010 @ 2:36 pm
Eddie, this group, “Whitechapel United Against Division”, is simply the WAG. It’s a brilliantly ironic name, given that its entire purpose is to divide the anti-racist movement. It represents nothing and contains no one.
Your trolling isn’t working. If you wanted to see “progressive Muslims” you only had to look at the Muslims in the audience of the organising meetings, who sat in stony silence as the Whitechapel Anarchists explained that we should treat both the conference and the EDL as equal and who cheered and applauded speakers who said we must stand up against the EDL and not give in to the lie that this is about extremist Muslims. The Muslims who have been to the meetings aren’t part of UAF or SWP or anything like it. But they know who is on their side and who is giving the EDL a free hand.
Yesterday’s events in Whitechapel show that it’s nothing to do with extremists or conferences. You can try to let the EDL off the hook all you like, but the division won’t be allowed to take root in my community.
Comment by tony collins — 16 June, 2010 @ 2:36 pm
At least you’re clear, Terry. You do not consider the EDL to be the enemy. You consider the SWP and radical Muslims to be the enemy.
You really can’t stand on your record because right now, you’re encouraging the very thing you claim to have worked so hard to stop.
Comment by tony collins — 16 June, 2010 @ 2:38 pm
Tony Collins,
You are obviously a thick Trot because the party tells you what to think. Let’s look at what you said. It seems that you think, and I use the word think carefully here in relation to your brain, that I do not consider the EDL to be the enemy. How do you work that out?
You have accused me of being a person who has used threats of violence against people. I am much more than that, I have used violence, not something that I am particularly proud of, against fascists. I am of a generation that did it while tossers like you talk and talk.
I have a track record and you don’t. Ken Livingstones’s little muppet Lee Jasper has to say sorry to me for calling me a racist and everyone else will as well. I gave Bro Lee a bit of advice that I give to you. Always engage brain before opening mouth. You also say that the East End is your community. Do you live in the East End? Let’s meet up for a chat. 07931 783670.
Comment by terry fitz — 16 June, 2010 @ 3:45 pm
Things turned out a little more complicated than you thought they would didn’t they Fitz you thickheaded twat. Who’d have thought you’d end up cheerleading and welcoming the slaughter by state agents of unarmed civilians attempting to break an illegal blockade who’s intent is similar to that of the Nazi strangulation of the jewish ghetto in Warsaw circa WWII? The use of violence is a mighty serious thing. You should think a bit more about it or risk becoming a sort of resident fifth column for pogromist incursions in the East End.
Comment by Tooty Fruity — 16 June, 2010 @ 5:17 pm
#15 - so disagreeing with the SWP can only be ‘trolling’ can it?
Clearly in your world there is only one truth, one correct set of tactics and no debate allowed. This approach and mindset could explain the dismal failure of your politics to either effectively confront the far right or to connect with the working class you laughably claim to be in the ‘vanguard’ of.
The reality - which you have failed to once accept - is that the entire purpose for any form of activity at the weekend has now vanished. The proposed march will achieve precisely nothing bar bemusing/concerning those who actually live in the area. The very hearts and minds we need to win in fact.
If you think highlighting the failure and complete lack of strategy of certain ‘anti fascist’ organsisations is not relevant on this thread then it speaks volumes for you.
Comment by Eddie — 16 June, 2010 @ 5:38 pm
What speaks volumes is that you consider yourself part of a “we” that is trying to win any hearts and minds. You’re not. And your dishonest style of argument makes it pretty obvious.
Comment by tony collins — 16 June, 2010 @ 5:57 pm
The only approach that will beat the EDL and their likes in the long run is the one tactic the left consistently shy away from, talking directly to the communities and individuals who are likely to be the EDLs target audience.
In the meantime, the opposition marches and the direct confrontation through shouting down the SDL or hemming them in are the only possible approaches to EDL action while a short term approach is employed.
But this battle can only be won in youth clubs, pubs, workplaces, bookies, cafes, not by screaming RACIST! at the mrs duffys of the world, but by telling them that they are wrong and precisely why they are wrong.
Comment by Jim Monaghan — 16 June, 2010 @ 6:36 pm
#21 I would agree with that Jim. As AFA once said “While the initial aim must be to root out the organised racists/fascists the motive force behind the attacks - and throw down a challenge to those that provide them with facilities, the long-term solution must be to create communities of resistance. By creating some space, perhaps in time a real working class alternative to the lying bullshit that now passes for politics in this country can emerge. The entire Left has failed the working class, black and white alike, though many prefer to believe that the working class has failed the Left. We are here today, not only because they (the Left) are bad socialists but more specifically because they are bad antifascists”
Tony’s lamentable excuses for the UAF (and dismissive snearing at any alternative approach) indicates that much of the left remain bad anti fascists.
Comment by Eddie — 16 June, 2010 @ 7:20 pm
Eddie, I dont just mean the UAF, I mean the whole Labour movement and the far left too. Telling each other how wonderfully non-racist we are and showing off our new pamphlet or leaflet about it is not the best long term approach. But I dont mean to knock it, there has to be a short-term reaction too.
The trend at the moment seems to be a debate in the left about whether or not to confront the EDL, BNP etc face on, or whether to have a show of why we are different, a bigger counter march.
I don’t think it is an either/or debate. Both of these things have to happen in response to the EDL, but neither will win over many working class racists and uninformed young people in the long run.
Comment by Jim Monaghan — 16 June, 2010 @ 7:36 pm
#17
I notice,Terence, that your position on the EDL remains unclear. Do you think they are a far-Right, racist organisation or not?
Comment by Omar — 16 June, 2010 @ 7:54 pm
A further report on the EDL’s excursion into Whitechapel yesterday is here:
http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/combustible-mood-in-whitechapel/
Comment by Paul Stott — 16 June, 2010 @ 10:29 pm
I see the lastest ‘morphing’ of the banned islam4Uk has hit the streets. The new Muslims Against the Crusade group heckled and shouted at the returning 1st Battalion the Royal Anglian Regiment, as they paraded down the streets of Barking, Essex. There was only about 25-50 people on this MATC demonstration, but the long term damage they are doing to the moderate majority muslim community is unmeasurable, and just propels easily led young ‘mostly’ white working class men into going on EDL marches, where they come into contact with the hardened football hooligan firms and more menacingly, the hardcore nazi racists.
Comment by Clayton — 16 June, 2010 @ 10:48 pm
Clayton - Agreed. Which is why Anarchists in the East End have spent a lot of time and effort trying to get a clear condemnation of - for example - the actual event that was planned at the Troxy - from the likes of UAF, as well as merely condemning the EDL.
A demonstration against both these extremisms would have been to the credit of the left. Sadly, the UAF/SWP is not capable of making this quantum leap in its thinking, placing it on this issue somewhere to the right of the local Labour council:
http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wordpress.com/2010/06/15/the-grand-old-duke-of-york/
Comment by Paul Stott — 17 June, 2010 @ 7:25 am
#28 Indeed, and Tony Collins and others have had numerous opportunities to explain what the purpose of the march on Sunday actually is and also how bringing middle class outsiders into the East End at this stage for an ‘intervention’ achieves anything.
Their silence speaks volumes.
The arrival of the SWP is of course a disaster for those working to develop pro working class politics in the area and will no doubt set the work back considerably. However the pieces will need to be picked up once the SWP student rent a mob have moved on.
Comment by Eddie — 17 June, 2010 @ 11:15 am
I love these ’super prole’ anarchist/Alliance for Islamaphobia types who never do anything that is’nt ‘working class’ who are mostly if not wholly ex students who then slag off ’students’
Funny thing is when it comes to actually organising against the facsists they always seem to be conspicuous by their absence.and what better way to strenghen the hold of the conservative elements in the Muslim community than by so called anti fascists attacking Muslims. Clever
As for that racist wanker Terry Fitz … don’t get me started though thanks for the number pal an address would be better though
Comment by Billy Bell — 17 June, 2010 @ 11:27 am
Billy, glad you’ve intervened - could you tell us how the march on Sunday represents “actually organising against the facsists” then?
Comment by Eddie — 17 June, 2010 @ 12:21 pm
These Whitechapel Anarchists are the people who drunkenly surrounded a young woman from UAF who was invited to address an RMT meeting and subjected her to a disgusting tirade of sectarian and misogynistic verbal abuse. One of them explained to me in the pub last Autumn that we should be making alliances with the EDL because they’re working class people who are angry about Islamic extremism! Ridiculous, marginal posers. Please bugger off and take Terry Fitz with you.
Comment by WAGwan? — 17 June, 2010 @ 1:12 pm
It is not of course unheard of for anarchists to find common ground with fascists.
Sergio Pannunzio and Filippo Corradini went so far as to join Mussolini’s fascisti and become the main ideologues of Italian fascism, while still considering themselves anarchists.
Comment by Andy Newman — 17 June, 2010 @ 1:18 pm
Are you inferring WAG are sympathetic to fascists, etc, shameful, this blog is going down the drain with much of the left with it..
Comment by History tells us things — 17 June, 2010 @ 1:49 pm
Well, well, well, this is revealing.
Rather than attempt to explain the point of busing middle class outsiders in to the East End to march against a cancelled protest instead we have smears and lies.
Rather than explain why every intervention from SWP/UAF is a disaster for everyone bar those they are protesting against we have evasion and a peversion of the analysis of those actually doing something about build a pro working class alternative rather than posturing about it.
To claim that the WAG are sympathetic to the EDL is beyond contempt as is the claim of ‘drunken mysoginistic abuse’. Those responsible should hang their heads in shame.
And to think, these are the self appointed leaders of the ‘left’ - no wonder it is held in contempt by our class.
Comment by Eddie — 17 June, 2010 @ 2:05 pm
I’m not even going to address the EDL or the rubbish they perpetuate. Quite simply, because they bus their boys in from all over, to tell Tower Hamlets people what to think and believe. Which is bullshit. They’re anti-politics.
As for all this inferring that WAG are as brutish or borish as the EDL, quite simply untrue. The Whitechapel Anarchist Group got an impeccable record on fighting extremism in the many forms it takes round here. The only group in a sea of Trots and well-meaning lefties to stick with the line, that the Troxy conference speakers AS WELL AS THE EDL are wackos. And we don’t want them coming into our area and spewing forth their wackiness. Oh no.
Lastly, Mr Andy Newman, you are just so far from any kind of relevant or incisive point trying to pare anarchists and fascists that you cripple yourself and your politics. What are you trying to say? That cause you found two names from Italy back in the day, that WAG and present day anarchists in London could, somehow, merge with some fascist element, or become sympathetic to that outlook. That is absolutely absurd. And wrong. And with that nasty spiteful bit of ‘helpful history’, you only reconfirm my wish that the British left sinks into some obscure backwater where it stops polluting genuine and exciting politics from occuring naturally. Please go back to bed and leave us, here in Whitechapel, well and truly alone…
Comment by down with all extremists — 17 June, 2010 @ 2:17 pm
Tower Hamlets is an area with a massively diverse, yet mostly harmonious population. It’s also an area the EDL are keen to come and stir up trouble in, plus it’s an area with a recent huge rise in homophobic attacks. As a queer local resident (living just around the corner from the East London Mosque) I can say that the ONLY group actually standing up for all local people was WAG in condemning both outside elements, the EDL coming to stir up trouble and the Troxy speakers coming to preach division. ( check one of them out here http://gaymuslims.org/2007/01/15/bilal-philips-video/) The council themselves have a clear and progressive line “there’s no place for hate in Tower Hamlets” curiously the only people supporting this were WAG.
UAF were completely happy to ignore any homophobic and misogynous speakers at the Troxy (claiming, we’re not really sure what’s happening at the Troxy, but that’s not the point). Race is not the only issue in Tower Hamlets, but it seems all other minority groups, suffering attack can jog on according to the UAF. They are now pressing ahead with a demo whipping up fear of racist attacks in the area. They are acting completely irresponsibly, they talk of the Battle Of Cable St MK2 yet demand that their demo be peaceful. We all know once it does kick off in Whitechapel (due to EDL and UAF stirring) any violence will be condemned by UAF and the Muslim youth (as with the Gaza demos) will be given no support and ostracised by the SWP whilst they get sent down.
The EDL, The UAF and the Troxy Speakers are all coming to the East End to stir up trouble and cause unrest, they are all outsiders and they will all run back home, whilst we’re left to pick up the pieces of our broken community.
Comment by Rudi — 17 June, 2010 @ 2:32 pm
Haha. Talk of history repeating itself! The Left accusing Anarchists of being Fascists! How predictable…
Here is a report of the incident that happened between the UAF speaker and WAG - when the group were doing security for the RMT.
http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wordpress.com/2010/04/17/united-against-fascists/
Typical of all you internet revolutionaries to slag us off. Try and get your facts right before throwing around statements of what individuals have said in pubs. Some of you are sounding like Searchlight puppets making accusations of fascism against people you don’t know based on rumours!!
And people who think that groups like IFE are representative of “progressive muslims” in the east end need to get their head examined! Seeing as a majority of “muslims” round here are bangladeshi and a group like IFE draws it’s lineage from Jamaat-e-Islami whose paramilitary wing Al-Babr mass killed Bengali’s during the Liberation War. It’s obvious none of you actually talk to real people on the street. The UAF mobilisation has been stitched up all along, with no concern for local organising, and has as always jumped into bed with mainstream groups like the IFE. And you people call yourselves socialists? Haha.
The UAF have whipped up a lot of fear around this whole issue and have sidelined any discussion of the UK-IC event even though we live in a borough with rising homophobic attacks and the UK-IC wants to host speakers who spout on about killing homosexuals. The conference was the reason that the EDL wanted a mass demonstration BUT it should be made very clear that the group of EDL chased out of whitechapel on Tuesday are the same group who have been spotted drinking in Bethnal Green, at the Salmon & Ball, for months.
The EDL are a threat to our community and we are dedicated to stopping them. And in the same breath the religious extremists are also a threat to our community. To only speak out against one as opposed to the other is illogical.
Comment by Eric Blair — 17 June, 2010 @ 2:34 pm
#35 Surely you must know by now that the modus operandi of the cobweb left is to smear and distort to cover up their lack of a clue?
It easier to do this than answer a simple question - why are you marching to protest at a non-existent picket of a non-existent conference?
As for Andy Newman’s ‘point’ I was tempted to reply highlighting the political journey of plenty of SWPers/fellow travellers but life is too short and the list is too long. He might also has felt his intervention had some sort of relevance to anything.
Comment by Eddie — 17 June, 2010 @ 2:36 pm
#35
“Lastly, Mr Andy Newman, you are just so far from any kind of relevant or incisive point trying to pare anarchists and fascists that you cripple yourself and your politics. What are you trying to say? That cause you found two names from Italy back in the day, that WAG and present day anarchists in London could, somehow, merge with some fascist element, or become sympathetic to that outlook. That is absolutely absurd. And wrong. “
I am saying that a certain type of ‘ squadristi ‘ mindset, which stresses localism, is broadly “anti-politics”, and a mythical shared community of working class life is a phenomenon that is mirrored on both the right and in some anarchist circles.
The fact that some anarchists in London are prepared to take time off from their PhD dissertations in order to condemn “Islamic extremeism” at precisley the time when media hysteria against such alleged extremism is being used to seek to demonise and marginalise mainstream Muslim activists is an illustration of what little grasp of politics you really have.
Comment by Andy Newman — 17 June, 2010 @ 2:46 pm
It seems to me that Socialists will jump on any bandwagon, in this case Rasism in the East End to further their own ends…and attack anything, left or right, that they think gets in their way. Like a virus. Anarchism on the other hand works by people in the same community comming together to counter ALL types of coersion and harassment, be it racism, sexism, homophobia etc… with the aim of Freedom for everyone…
Sorry I don’t know all the politics going on here but I live here and wish you’d take all your socialist bullshit and let the community express ourselves
Comment by B Mohammed — 17 June, 2010 @ 3:04 pm
Mr Fitz,
You don’t have the slightest clue what the Muslim Community in Tower Hamlets are about and what they have achieved. They have gone so far and united on so many fronts. The early and mid 90’s were about constant gang fights, and prostitution was rife near teh Brick lane area.
The community united and put an end to the turf wars and shunned out all the prostitutes - As a community! What extremism is their in that Mr Fitz! These are the benfits that not only the Muslims enjoy but society as a whole!! But what drive us to do this? Our Faith!!!
These people are not capable of being extremists - if they were extremists I don’t think they would bother with engaging in the political process and other public forums.
Comment by Alam Rahman — 17 June, 2010 @ 3:04 pm
Mussolini was a socialist before becoming a fascist as was Moseley the former Labour MP, anarchists may well have joined in small numbers the fascists in Italy but Andy and the rest of the middle class Brit left social imperialists are in a glass house on this one.
SWP are a disaster when it comes to anti fascism- capable of getting people in any working class community sent down while they safely head back to their studies and their middle class ghettos. Pure scumbags.
Comment by eamonn wright — 17 June, 2010 @ 3:53 pm
Problems for our Anarchist pals is that if you follow the link above about the supposed RMT events you discover what the WAG are all about
No politics but a strange macho bollocks ,’we’re ard us local anarchists’ that i wouldn’t mind after all everyone knows the anarchists are just liberals on glue
However its when we discover the EDL anarchists and the common ground various anarchists make with the EDL that we see that real nature of our anarchist chums. ‘Fair play to the EDL’ says one because they believe the bollocks that the EDL beat up C18
Then we get the ‘we’re against religion too ‘and the EDL being asked don’t you think you;re going about it the wrong way ( opposing Islam)
What dumb pricks these wankers are they believe the EDL ain’t fascists scrap with C18 and are only opposed to Islam because its oppressive ‘maan’
What next ? joint WAG/EDL pickets of the local mosque
Shoot em like partridges I say scum
Comment by Billy Bell — 17 June, 2010 @ 4:19 pm
@Billy Bell(END)
Remember it was “socialists” that have aligned themselves with some of the most oppressive regimes in the world based on some warped notion of anti-imperialism. The left has on the whole supported these reactionary regimes for purely ideological reasons.
Comment by A — 17 June, 2010 @ 4:59 pm
This ‘United East End’ Demo is going to go ahead anyway - surely the demands raised should now be around the issues that actually DO unite - defending “jobs, homes services - not racism”. Precisely the sort of campaign that is needed to cut across the the divison’s that the EDL and right-wing Islamists represent. A united class based march through the borough, against the public sector cuts and for jobs
Are UAF still trying to invite the TH Tory leader to speak!!?? - Jezeus wept. The people who have been happy to keep us at each other’s throat and fighting among ourselves over the resources they are cutting back on.
Comment by dennisr — 17 June, 2010 @ 5:04 pm
Comment from Eric Blair at the thread he linked to
“Therefore I hate the Left – SWP, UAF – they are predominantly middle class students without a fucking clue unwittingly following a rigid authoritarian leadership. And if it is true that the EDL battered C18/Blood&Honour then hats off because that’s more militant antifascism than the UAF have ever done!! ”
I conclude from the above that Eric prefers the EDL to UAF. Unbelievable.
Comment by Matthew Stiles — 17 June, 2010 @ 5:36 pm
You really are “unbelievable” Matthew Stiles - completely taking one small quote out of context and coming to some conclusion that I prefer the EDL to the UAF. What a joke!
I AM AN ANARCHIST - I HATE THEM BOTH!!!! They are both as divisive as each other. If you want to know my views on both the left and right then read through the wag blog as I’ve commented on most of the stuff regarding the EDL / UAF and Religious hate speakers. My views are out in the public so read a little harder and stop trying to smear people. Typical internet warrior.
Comment by Eric Blair — 17 June, 2010 @ 5:44 pm
Piss off Stiles what are you talking about. anyone can fucking see what he meant. UAF dont have a fucking clue. saying it doesnt somehow make him in league with the EDL.
Comment by calum — 17 June, 2010 @ 5:52 pm
And still we wait for the SWP/UAF/fellow travellers/student union etc to explain to us the point of the march.
Until we get an explanation we can only assume that it is to oppose a cancelled protest against a cancelled conference.
And by the way, it is not only anarchists who hold the ‘left’ in contempt. Those serious about building pro working class politics feel the same way. Nothing undermines months of patient hard work than the arrival of the UAF/HnH into an area with their leaflets about the ‘nartzis’ and the general lack of clue or willingness to listen to people who actually live in an area.
The middle class left are part of the problem - not the solution.
Comment by Eddie — 17 June, 2010 @ 5:55 pm
Dear Andy,
When even your own site has articles on the rising homophobic attacks in East London http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=2787
How should we respond when preachers such as the following are invited to the area to speak to hundreds of people?
Aba Usamah – “ If I were to call homosexuals perverted, dirty, filthy dogs who should be murdered, that’s my freedom of speech, isn’t it?”
Bilal Philips - “Aids is god’s devine retribution for gays” “In Islamic law the punishment for homosexuality is death”
serious question.
Should we just ignore it, and defend these speakers? is it Islam’s own duty to protest these speakers? not our place as non-muslims? Surely that’s treating all Muslims as other and not part of society?
How about homosexuals, should they just keep quiet too?
Comment by Rudi — 17 June, 2010 @ 6:07 pm
The thing is, the approach of the UAF/SWP is fundamentally racist. They see Muslims as one homogeneous group, and act as if it’s impossible for any of them to say anything objectionable. A quick Google shows that many of the speakers at the Troxy were misogynistic, homophobic and generally nothing to do with promoting freedom or harmony. The idea that Muslims around Tower Hamlets are going to feel threatened by people critisising those speakers is an insult to the majority of Muslims who do not like to see their religion or their holy book misrepresented by fringe elements, such as the Troxy speakers. The only stance which doesn’t push people torwards the EDL, or stir up unnecessary conflict in the area, is recognising that the EDL and the Troxy speakers are divisise elements attempting to spread hate in our communities, and that we need to resist that as communities.
Comment by Orange Juice — 17 June, 2010 @ 6:12 pm
Trouble for the anarchist/EDL when it comes to justifying their islamophobia is that they fail of course to cite one example of a homophobic attack carried out by a Muslim influenced by these preachers.
The day anarchist/EDL members become the defenders of the gay community is the day I’ll forget the name of their pal who carried out the nail bomb attacks in Soho
Its no wonder there’s so much admiration by the Whitechapel Wankers Group for the EDL they actually belive the EDL are the genuine working class because thats what mmummy and Daddy told them working class people are like.
Smash the WAG/EDL
Comment by Billy Bell — 17 June, 2010 @ 6:14 pm
Ive been in amongst the EDL close enough to know they are predominantly working class. Ive also been very close to most of the British left, including the SWP and they were very middle class although there are always a minority of working class people in their ranks.
Just my experience over a good few years Billy Bell.
Comment by eamonn wright — 17 June, 2010 @ 6:25 pm
I also love the way the anarchist/EDL supporters here always refer to the ‘community’ and that UAF come in from the outside. I’d bet anything that not one of these pricks was born in Whitechapel or has ever been near a working class estate .
They caricature the working class because they were told at prep school and eton that the lower orders are dirty and workshy so the Anarcshit/EDL don’t wash and don’t work and that they think makes them super proles and key members of the ‘community maaan’
We’ll march, you just stay in the pub getting pissed and sniffing glue after all its only an interlude before Daddy gets you a nice job on the board
Comment by Billy Bell — 17 June, 2010 @ 6:25 pm
‘I’ve been in amongst the EDL’ says it all really
Comment by Billy Bell — 17 June, 2010 @ 6:30 pm
What does it say Billy? We bumped into them once in a pub and asked them if they d like to come to a little party we were having later, but they wouldnt bite just as we were getting into the taxis.
Comment by eamonn wright — 17 June, 2010 @ 6:37 pm
#53 Eamonn, you do come across as a bit bitter on here at times, mate. I’m sure that you must have more interesting stuff to contribute.
On the SWP - I used to be a member way back around 1976-81 and then the party did have a quite significant industrial base. The branch that I was in had many factory workers and also many manual and lower grade clerical workers. I was a labourer at the time before going to work on the milk. Even then, of course, there were quite a few students, who often came from middle class backgrounds and there were other middle class people in the membership too. Sometimes there were “class tensions” between individuals but it didn’t really effect the functioning of the organisation at all.
The situation was significantly different when I re-joined the party in the early 1990s for a brief spell after the fascist Beackon got elected on the Isle of Dogs. Then the membership was much more studenty and middle class and the industrial base had withered considerably - there were much fewer manual workers than before and this obviously reflected the changes that had taken place in the British economy during the 1980s.
Today, I don’t really know. Some of the SWP members I met in the course of the Socialist Alliance and the Defend Council Housing campaign seemed to be quite “light-weight” and content to do as they were told. It was actually very difficult to communicate with them because they didn’t really want to engage politically. Their best members are those who have made a long-term commitment to build in their workplaces - I have found that I can still work quite productively with these comrades.
Comment by Stockwell Pete — 17 June, 2010 @ 6:41 pm
Great, now we’ve got the anarchos to add to the sectarian stew. Are there any Fabianists or Situationists out there who’d like to put the boot in to one of the other left groups?
Comment by Omar — 17 June, 2010 @ 7:23 pm
Thanks Dennisr @ 45 for a rare moment of non-sectarian commonsense on this thread. The EDL were looking for an excuse to stir things in Tower Hamlets and the Troxy event was an absolute gift for them but had it not happened I’m sure they would have found some other excuse. When their thugs shout about “pakis” they are not making any distinctions between fundamentalists and secular Muslims.
So whatever we can do to build a broad united response across communities will be beneficial. And, in the long run, we have got more of a chance of building something united across Tower Hamlets if we don’t defer to the sectarians and narrow bigots of the IFE.
UAF is a major part of the demo on Sunday - it is not the whole demo - which is in the name of United East End. If the UAF/SWP have learnt nothing from the Respect debacle of the last few years and still want to ride the tiger of communitarian politics, staying chummy with the fundamentalists, which seems to be the case, then the best response, rather than sniping from the sidelines, might be to ensure that non-UAF/SWP forces are there in strength on the demo propagating more progressive views among whoever is mobilised, many of whom will be beyond the UAF’s own membership base.
Comment by David Rosenberg — 17 June, 2010 @ 7:30 pm
To Billy bell
As a socialists and anarchist I find it disgusting that you have lumped the EDL in with an anarchist antifascist group! This is disgraceful behaviour!
Comment by Alex — 17 June, 2010 @ 8:07 pm
If the UAF had any intention of being a genuine anti-fascist organisation instead of being a front for the SWP, they’d have approached the situation in Whitechapel rather differently. If there was any class analysis in the UAF, then Weyman Bennett wouldn’t have written to the Evening Standard (16/6/10) demanding that ‘The Queen should withdraw Griffin’s invite [to a party at Buckingham Palace] and send a powerful message that all people in this country are equal’.
As it is, the UAF have done their damndest to inflame tensions in the area, saying at public meetings that this is another Cable Street while insisting that their demonstration will be peaceful. I have no doubt that the demonstration will be peaceful: but I suggest that the appeals to the spirit of Cable Street have gone some way towards creating the situation in which at least three people unconnected the the EDL have been attacked in a case of mistaken identity. Come Sunday, anyone wearing an England shirt round Whitechapel will be in danger of attack, in no small measure because the UAF have done so much to create a feeling of threat in the area. The incident reported in the OP - while unpleasant - should be seen as what it was - an intrusion by a dozen pissed-up arses fresh from an afternoon’s drinking in Barking, and not a serious invasion. The reaction to it by local Muslims showed the level of anxiety which has been whipped up by the UAF, with people in the streets to defend the mosque until the middle of the night. The appearance of the twelve should, I feel, be contrasted with the non-appearance of hundreds of their mates, many of whom doubtless share the view expressed by the EDL leadership that a march into Tower Hamlets would be suicide.
As a member of WAG (and typing this from my flat on a ‘working class estate’) I find it strange that the sort of anti-anarchist slurs more usually associated with the Murdoch press are put up, apparently seriously, by people who describe themselves as well on the left. The foul accusations hurled our way seem to me to be a sort of backhanded compliment! Over the fairly brief existence of the group, we’ve done much to demonstrate our opposition to fascism, such as the commemoration we held for Altab Ali, in the park which bears his name.
It’s true we’re not all Whitechapel born and bred, but to raise that as an argument, as Billy Bell does doesn’t hold water. How many London-based trots or Labour Party members even come from London? How many people living in Whitechapel or the wider borough were born there? Does Billy think that the Asian immigrants living in the borough don’t have a right to raise their voices because they’ve come in from the outside? Unlike the UAF, Billy, we’ve been in the area for some time now and have no intention of keeping quiet to suit the likes of you.
Comment by Harry White — 17 June, 2010 @ 9:02 pm
EDL pigs will get what’s coming to them. They pulled out of the Tower Hamlets because they fear the asian youth, that’s the truth. I’m an Insider.
Comment by The Prince — 17 June, 2010 @ 9:05 pm
#61 I’m not a member of the WAG or an anarchist but that post was spot on.
It’s now time for those serious about building pro working class politics to think how to put in place a strategy and approach that works on the ground and orientates properly to working class communities. It has been proven that this is not only correct but can deliver in practice in relatively short space of time under certain conditions.
This must include a core working class philosophy being reconstructed and based on the views and priorities of working class people. It can’t be the priorities of the wevolutionary vanguard or from a text written in 1926.
Finally we need an infrastructure that is capable of delivering that core message nationally and in doing so compete with both with the BNP and an increasingly faltering Labour Party and movement for hearts and minds.
Needless to say the middle class left won’t be interested - or as far as i’m concerned welcome - in the tasks ahead.
Comment by Eddie — 17 June, 2010 @ 10:04 pm
To be honest it wasn’t the UAF that were sending out text messages saying that 2 muslim girls had been raped by EDL on Tuesday night. It wasn’t the UAF who were saying that EDL pulled a hijab off a muslim sister and spat in her face. These rumours were circulated by pumped up youth looking for an enemy.
UAF and that sort of antifascism has been shown to agitate tensions to seem radical and militant. In Birmingham last year they were telling people that the NF and Combat 18 were doing a demonstration instead it was the EDL. The UAF have failed and continue to fail to see the difference between the two. Its that failure of the UAF to recognise what the EDL are which has led to their growth. The UAF having a monopoly over antifascist politics in the UK and have consistently sided with the enemies of the working class - the labour party, the tories - and have allowed these reaction idiots to speak on their platforms.
The statement produced by WAG attacked both the EDL and the Islamists event because anarchists are anti-authoritarian. What the likes of the BNP and EDL are attempted to do is create an authoritarian movement that dominates predominantly white working class people to mobilise people from that background to act as their attack dogs against muslims. Equally the Islamo-centric rhetoric of certain sections of the muslim population fail to see that they themselves, though effective in self-policing their communities, and working on the whole within social justice politics - are creating the politically fertile ground for authoritarian ideas to become dominant.
Islam as a political system has failed people, even those that had once thought it a liberation, anti-imperialist movement. Equally nationalism and patriotism has failed to deliver the same albeit in more dubious circumstances. The bolshevik coup d’etat in 1917 and the establishment of the Soviet empire shat on the graves of the millions who died to be freed from exploitation and gave capitalism 80 years of free reign across the world. The only solution is an anti-authoritarian, anti-clerical, humanist revolution - and I for one are supporting WAG for maintaining to their principles despite the criticism from so-called socialists on this blog.
Lastly, my suggestions to both anarchists and UAF on this blog is chill the fuck out. :-0)
Comment by Alex — 17 June, 2010 @ 10:14 pm
“The only solution is an anti-authoritarian, anti-clerical, humanist revolution ”
And how is that project going exactly?
I am only asking.
Comment by Andy Newman — 17 June, 2010 @ 10:20 pm
Oh well, I stand corrected as on other posts on that site I can see that Eric Blair has been very critical of the EDL. Still, I find it very strange to say that the EDL and UAF are as bad as each other. As for “typical internet warrior”, what are you on about? There is nothing abusive in my post and I use my own name.
Comment by Matthew Stiles — 17 June, 2010 @ 10:25 pm
Ah, here we go again. I was going to make a joke that since the ‘Official Lefties’ here are once again calling anarchists fascists - based on nothing at all except a stunning lack of the concept of opposites - that maybe they’d like to shoot us all like Stalin did in Russia and Spain, or Krushcev did in Hungary. I believe the anarchists there had conveniently transformed into fascists too. But then Billy Bell goes one better and gives me this quote: “Shoot em like partridges I say scum”
So…who do you admire most, Joseph or Nikita?
Comment by Chris — 17 June, 2010 @ 10:45 pm
‘“The only solution is an anti-authoritarian, anti-clerical, humanist revolution ”
And how is that project going exactly?
I am only asking.’
I’d dare say it’s going better than your attempts to be the vanguard of the glorious proletarian rovolution, comrade.
Comment by Chris — 17 June, 2010 @ 10:46 pm
#63 Agreed Eddie.
I do find it bizarre that so many people on the left find it so difficult to unequivocally criticise homophobic and misogynist Islamic speakers in the same way they would if they were from the BNP as, I presume, it may be difficult tactically. And I’m not talking about the Millie Tant nonsense aimed at the Anarchist guy by someone from the UAF but significant belief in sexual segregation and far worse for gay people. Of course, this, as someone else had already mentioned is short-sighted as it does assume Muslims are some sort of homogeneous mass to be patronised just in case ‘they’ might get upset is you criticise a preacher with offensive views. Why should many Muslims not have a problem with what some of these clerics are saying?
The middle-class left will continue to disappoint. What is lacking here is a lack of intellectual honesty which I suspect results is a pole of attraction away from the left and towards the EDL and more cohesive far-right organisations. That said, this does not mean I would want to be associated with the liberal bombers and Zionist cheerleaders of Harrys Place, and it is a problem when anyone who attacks the SWP/UAF orthodoxy has their comments taken out of context and then associated with that sort of nonsense.
Comment by Howard Kirk — 17 June, 2010 @ 10:51 pm
You’ve gotta love the sparkling wits on this thread who defend their ridiculous ultra left posturing by describe anti fascist activists with whom they disagree as “middle class”. I bet they spray their scrumpy across the screen everytime they read another example of it. Great stuff.
Comment by Middle Class Lefty — 17 June, 2010 @ 11:02 pm
“That said, this does not mean I would want to be associated with the liberal bombers and Zionist cheerleaders of Harrys Place”
Really what you are saying is that they are spot on and if you didn’t hate ahem, ‘Zionists’ you would hold the same opinion.
Comment by Darkness at Noon — 17 June, 2010 @ 11:09 pm
Scuse me but all these buttheads trying to draw an equivalence between fascist EDL and Islamists in the East End are deluded. It’s been a while since I heard of any Muslims going on violent rampages, kicking over stalls or marching against other places of worship/gathering. It seems a regular occurence when the EDL have their marches.
Another reason local Muslims are likely to be edgy is that yet again their community is being portrayed as some sort of hotbed of extremism thereby attracting not only far-Right thugs but, quite possibly, trigger happy cops on the hunt for “terrorists.”
Comment by Omar — 17 June, 2010 @ 11:28 pm
#70 Not just anti#fascist activity. Keep up the irrelevance.
#71 No, I don’t think they are generally correct in their almost Melanie Philips-ish approach. But equally, I assume are you saying you do not approve of homophobic and misogynist Muslim preachers, it’s just they should not be challenged?
#72 I suspect they would like to do a lot worse.
Comment by Howard Kirk — 18 June, 2010 @ 12:00 am
#72 Having read your comments on ‘elite Israeli commandos’ it’s clear you are saying they should be challenged but then again what you support in the middle fuels the very same Islamic extremist preachers which fuels the EDL etc.
Comment by Howard Kirk — 18 June, 2010 @ 12:10 am
Sorry that should be the Darkness at Noon comment at #71.
Comment by Howard Kirk — 18 June, 2010 @ 12:12 am
“Really what you are saying is that they are spot on and if you didn’t hate ahem, ‘Zionists’ you would hold the same opinion.”
And what I’d like to say is that many of us of Jewish background are continually pissed off by Zionists hiding their reactionary politics by accusing any and sundry of anti-semitism, as in this pathetic little attempt at clever, ironic implication.
Comment by Nick Fredman — 18 June, 2010 @ 1:02 am
“The middle-class left will continue to disappoint. What is lacking here is a lack of intellectual honesty which I suspect results is a pole of attraction away from the left and towards the EDL and more cohesive far-right organisations.”
Yeah, I’m really sure the EDL thugs took such great offense at homophobia and sexism among certain Muslims that they decided to go on the rampage in Stoke. How’s that theory working out for you Howard?
The pole of attraction for racism is the nasty Islamophobic hysteria drummed up by the government and other reactionary organisations hell bent on justifying their so-called “war on terror.” Rather a hollow declaration considering they allow EDL thugs to terrorize Muslims and other workers.
All this cant about fighting defending women and gays from so-called Muslim intolerance is a liberal left excuse for the carpet bombing of Iraq and the murder hundreds of thousands of Muslims around the world. As a socialist gay man I find it offensive when I hear Islamophobes and racists using my oppression to oppress Muslims.
As for challenging homophobia since when has the EDL or the Zionists given a fuck about LGBT rights? “Never”, is the short answer.
Comment by Ray — 18 June, 2010 @ 3:11 am
#68
“I’d dare say it’s going better than your attempts to be the vanguard of the glorious proletarian rovolution, comrade.”
IDIOT
Do you really think I distinguish between the puerile posturing of the self-aggrandising delusionists and social misfits of the self-importnat anarchists and the equally deluded dreams of the trotskyist left?
Comment by Andy Newman — 18 June, 2010 @ 8:35 am
#77 That’s my point. It has been used as an excuse for attacking carpet-bombing and attacking Muslims because the wider public see there is some truth in it - these views do exist on the margins and the 9/11 and the 2005 London bombings are obvious proof of this. So rather than acknowledging this and pointing out their opportunistic over-reaction and how Western foreign policy fuels these responses which makes sense, and then starting to build forces capable of support for working class communities, you carry on with denial which comes across to many people as hypocritical and dishonest. Some of these may be attracted to the EDL but many more will just see the left as offering them nothing which leads to the continuing irrelevance of the left. You know there are whole swathes of people out there who form opinions, vote, have their jobs and services threatened.
Of course, the Zionists and the EDL will not be interested in sexism or homophobia but the views of some Muslims does provide intellectual cover. And the fact they have people who will speak out against sexism and homophobia - and the EDL has some gay members I understand - gives them intellectual cover as well. Being aware of this does not mean you support Israel, the Iraq War or the BNP. And once again that is the implication.
OK, homophobic and sexist speakers can always be criticised unless they are Muslim. Got it.
Comment by Howard Kirk — 18 June, 2010 @ 9:27 am
Andy - your post 78. What’s all this about ’social misfits’ among the anarchists? Sounds to me like your brand of socialism’s more of the forcing everyone to fit in variety than a sort which encourages people to develop their individual potential. Once again you’re avoiding political argument in favour of ad hominem attacks.
Comment by Harry White — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:05 am
Seems this thread has given the Whitechapel Anarchist Collective ( all 8 of them not counting the dogs on string) their 15 minutes of fame.
Over the next few years as we build resistance to the ConDem cuts,the EDL and the BNP I will look in vain for a single strike or protest organised by the Anarchists.
The sad truth is aside from the odd ‘bash the rich’ fiasco which is little more than an excuse for a piss up and a bit of looting from one of daddys shops the anarchists will reamin what they have always been marginal at best wreckers at worst.
Keep off the glue stick to meths it wears off quicker
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:28 am
Oh my gosh . . . the sectarian stupidity on here, the EDL must be pissing themselves with laughter.
I have always looked on anarchists as potential allies - despite the very sharp arguments that naturally erupt from time to time between two distinct political traditions.
So you are all in detention now - and don’t forget to bring your copies of Victor Serge’s “Memoirs of a Revolutionary” with you.
Comment by Stockwell Pete — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:39 am
and some soap
Comment by Andy Newman — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:41 am
#84 Andy
‘and some soap’
Tut Tut Andy is there really any need for cheap apolitical jibes like this ?
Tyndall yoy may remember called us ‘the great unwashed’.
Hardly original and signifying nothing.
It just shows a shallowness that you hardly deserve.
Comment by Halshall — 18 June, 2010 @ 1:11 pm
I aspire to shallow, shallow is the new deep.
Comment by Andy Newman — 18 June, 2010 @ 1:43 pm
#81 “Over the next few years as we build resistance to the ConDem cuts,the EDL and the BNP.”
And how does the SWP plan to ‘build the resistance’ then? Interventions and antics? The same approach that has resoundingly failed over the last 20 years? If so, don’t bank on building anything.
Comment by Eddie — 18 June, 2010 @ 2:15 pm
I don’t know the fine detail of Tower Hamlets, not being from there, but I have sometimes been surprised by how reactionary some anarchists can be.
In 1989 I was handed a leaflet by anarchists (I was living outside London at the time - the town had a small anarchist group). The leaflet included a diatribe about extensive mainstream media coverage of Lithuania. The USSR was in the process of falling apart, and the media guessed this was the case, so all cameras were turned on it.
Reacting to this, the anarchist leaflet basically stated, “Who the hell cares about Lithuania?” and clearly filed it all under the “bloody foreigners we could care less about” category.
I was surprised by this, as I assumed anarchism to be a left-wing radical current of thought which included internationalism. But in hindsight, this lot of anarchists at least were anticipating moans about “Polish plumbers” from the likes of well-known radicals like Robert Kilroy-Silk. I might have become an anarchist in 1989, were it not for this incident giving me the impression that anarchists were prone to crudely expressed xenophobia.
Are anarchists today toying with Islamophobia? I don’t know - I’m just asking.
Comment by Anarchy now? — 18 June, 2010 @ 2:25 pm
There are of course many decent activists who describe themselves as Anarchists or anarchistic usually or often as a reaction to the bureaucratic centralism of Labourism and Stalinism ,unfortunately they end up throwing the baby out with the bath water ( no offence intended to the WAGs) and rejecting all forms of democratic organisation which by necessity have to have an element of centralism in order for them to work,after all whats the point of making a democratic decision if nobody is bound by it.
These people are clearly different however from the ‘professional ‘anarchists who form what are ineffect Anarchist Parties ie WAG but then deny they are such. These people are the most secterian individuals I have come across in 30+ years of activity.
They are highly individualistic moralistic and macho they make a virtue out of what is ineffect lumpen behaviour . They denounce those with jobs or who spend their time keeping union organisation together,they are contemptuous of trying to involve wider forces in activity they believe unless you live in a squat,smoke rollies,never wash and own a starving dog called trevor you are part of the establishment .
They tend to be largely de classed ex students who dropped out safe in the knowledge that the inheritence will always be there.
They spend their time attacking trots for wasting their time trying to relate to and organise workers and in any case anyone who works has to be a fool .
They build nothing though they can wreck ,they are also prone to drunken physical violence I well remember a pissed up anarchist threatening a pension aged activist in a Stop the War meeting back in 2003.
When you look back at the many events such as Lewisham and Wood Green in 1977, or the Isle of Dogs in 1992 or Welling in 1994 the anarchists were no where to be seen ,instead it was those the anarchists derided who built those anti facsist protests
‘Like a raincoat full of holes’ is how Trotsky descibed Anarchists after they capitulated in Spain this lot today don’t even bare comparison to the heroic anarchist workers so badly betrayed by the FAI/CNT they are a joke
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 3:24 pm
Billy, when it comes to actually contronting the far right - and by that I don’t mean waving lollipops, chanting, behaving in a hysterical manner etc - the SWP and the conservative left generally have been found wanting every time (there are a few exceptions to this but they prove the rule). So throwing around facts about the failings of anarchists is a pot kettle situation based on the facts.
Comment by Eddie — 18 June, 2010 @ 3:59 pm
@Billy Bell
All of those events have had anarchists involved. Anarchists made up one of the major parts of AFA, especially outside London.
Even recently during the Visteon workers occupation, it was anarchists that were involved and on the picket lines every night throughout that struggle. The SWP turned up with their placards when the cameras were on and then fuck off.
Lets also look at the anti-war movement. Anarchists were targeting Fairford and calling for direct action whilst the trots in the SWP were denouncing us as elitists. All you lot did is march, march and march and making empty calls to the UN to intervene and for the government to respect international law. Even with millions prepared to go on the streets you did nothing, fuck all and you called it a victory!
The only problem with us anarchists is that we lack the resources and are often put off coalitions like East End United because of the lack of democracy that exists within them.
The Left are scared of anarchists, more than we know it, because potentially it undermines your monopoly over these struggles. Well you will be seeing more organised and effective anarchists involving themselves on “your” turf as it were so get used to it.
As for WAG being 8 people and dog, well funny that considering they were have meetings of 40+ people last week to discuss responses to the EDL.
Comment by A — 18 June, 2010 @ 4:45 pm
Spare me the bollocks
Firstly this anarchist elitist shite that all UAF do is wave placards wereas of course the real ‘men’ of the anarchist workers battalions engage in hand to hand fighting with the nazis just like at Bolton,Birmingham.Woodgreen ,Lewisham ,Welling etc my arse
Unlike the WAGs serious anti fascists dont spend time making common cause with the EDL in slagging off Muslims and the left,your message board appears like a mutual appreciation society at times. UAF have no need to waste time on attacking WAG or any other rag bag anarchist group you are simply irrelevent and you know it.
As for the clown who talks about the left and more anarchists coming onto our ‘turf’ he clearly had to wait til he got home from school before mummy let her little darling use the computer
Fuck off back to your love in with the EDL leave fighting fascists to those who know how to do it and get a fucking wash you middle class wankers
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 5:04 pm
#90
“Lets also look at the anti-war movement. Anarchists were targeting Fairford and calling for direct action whilst the trots in the SWP were denouncing us as elitists. “
Well I live only a few miles from fairford, and did a lot of campaigning around the base, and I can’t say I experienced any real imput from anarchists. Indeed, in the build up to the Iraq war I was inteviewed by Star and Stripes, the US Army’s newspaper about our campaigning at RAF Fairford.
(I also have no idea why these anarchists keep talking about the SWP, is the poverty of their imagination so great that they think anyone who disagrees with them is a swoppie?.)
Comment by Andy Newman — 18 June, 2010 @ 5:06 pm
‘Like a raincoat full of holes’ is how Trotsky descibed Anarchists after they capitulated in Spain this lot today don’t even bare comparison to the heroic anarchist workers so badly betrayed by the FAI/CNT they are a joke’
Who gives a flying fuck how Trotsky described anything? If he’d have kept up with his hole analysis, maybe he would’ve been able to patch himself up before the brains trickled out the back of his head. Keep wanking yourself off over mass-murderers and idealogues, Billy. You’re certainly a credit to whatever irrelevent sect you’re a member of.
Comment by thedmarl — 18 June, 2010 @ 5:15 pm
“The only problem with us anarchists is that we lack the resources”
Because you have failed to articulate a serious political perspective, let alone attract social forces towards one. You can criticise the SWP or UAF or Respect all you like but, regardless of whatever disagreements you have with them, it can hardly be claimed that they are irrelevant - if they were, you wouldn’t have your knickers in a twist about them. I don’t think anybody should be triumphalist about their position in the chronically small and marginalised British far-left, but trotting out crap about how “the SWP” has been a failure when you’ve clearly managed to do bugger all more than they have is just daft.
“Even recently during the Visteon workers occupation, it was anarchists that were involved and on the picket lines every night throughout that struggle. The SWP turned up with their placards when the cameras were on and then fuck off.”
This is simply an out-and-out lie. The SWP were at Visteon with supplies within hours of the occupation. The SWP had been key to building the support meeting at the Turkish community centre, simultaneously helping to undercut the “British jobs…” discussions that had been developing. The SWP took Visteon workers to the NUT conference soon after the occupation started where the SWP were directly thanked by the speaker for their help—the speaker later addressed the entire conference, received a standing ovation and raised thousands of pounds in strike money. They were closely involved in delivering solidarity at every stage of the dispute. Maybe you popped around with some dogs for the pickets to pet. Nice work.
“The Left are scared of anarchists, more than we know it, because potentially it undermines your monopoly over these struggles. Well you will be seeing more organised and effective anarchists involving themselves on “your” turf as it were so get used to it.”
Big words, but where’s this growing anarchist force? A bunch of spoilers and whingers who complain but get nothing done. Your bitter, petty tripe is a sign of your frustration at not having your own way. If you disagree with the strategy that is being pursued then go out and do your own thing. Break the left’s “monopoly”. If people agree with you, they’ll go along with you. The test of theory is in practice—get cracking! I’m sure you can organise some lovely warehouse parties with gallons of Woodpecker sloshing around, that might be a good start.
Comment by Rick from the Young Ones was a better Anrachist — 18 June, 2010 @ 5:41 pm
I am sure that the City of London quakes when they see what the anarchist threat looks like:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/29/66779080_6d8c5246b7.jpg
Comment by Andy Newman — 18 June, 2010 @ 6:00 pm
The WAG/EDL supporters on here really do confirm why no real worker would give anarchistS the time of day but let me be the first to offer them a bar of soap and if you like a soap on a rope which you can use for your Dog which you can tie up outside the pub whilst you and your EDL pals watch Ingerland lose to Algeria
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 6:04 pm
@Billy Bell and other trot wankers
I’ve said before that your on dangerous ground if you are associating WAG with EDL! Tell me which political party your from? Lets be honest now. And to be honest, I’ve no time to argue with trots on the internet especially ones throwing round laughable stereotypes to justify their arguments.
Plus I’m going to watch the england match, how racist of me! Maybe i should be leafletting the pub denouncing British Imperialism.
Comment by A — 18 June, 2010 @ 6:15 pm
The anarchist A has no country it seems but Ingerland !
Denouncing British Imperialism might be a start thick lad but hey your only an Anarchist who gives fuck about politics lets get pissed
Fuck off and get a wash
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 6:18 pm
People really shouldn’t associate WAG with the EDL. The WAG may have a barmy “analysis” but they’re not the enemy, they’re certainly not racists and people should not accuse them of being so.
Also, the EDL can actually mobilise people and get a handful of working class kids on their demos, which is more than WAG will ever manage.
Comment by Rick from the Young Ones was a better Anrachist — 18 June, 2010 @ 6:21 pm
@Billy Bell
“Fuck off and get a wash”
Your getting boring mate, stop trotting out the same tabloid bullshit.
Comment by A — 18 June, 2010 @ 6:35 pm
You telling me you get washed A ? fuck me the WAG/EDL lot’ll spot you a mile away fortunately you’ll smell before they get you
Good luck with supporting Ingerland and don’t forget to stand when you sing the national anthem
Me I’m off to Glynbourne to meet up with your police agent pal Ian MI5 Bone
Ingerland Ingerland Ingerland
Victory to Algeria
Fuck off and get a wash
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 6:49 pm
“These people are clearly different however from the ‘professional ‘anarchists who form what are ineffect Anarchist Parties ie WAG but then deny they are such. These people are the most secterian individuals I have come across in 30+ years of activity.
They are highly individualistic moralistic and macho they make a virtue out of what is ineffect lumpen behaviour .”
Billy, I had thought I was sectarian, but I know a master when I see one.
Comment by Harry White — 18 June, 2010 @ 7:36 pm
Bangladesho community attacks IFE as fascist! are the UAF going to attack the ELM??
“The entry of the English Defence League (EDL) into Tower Hamlets to protest against a meeting organized under the auspices of the Federation of Student Islamic Societies (FOSIS) is a direct provocation to stir up racial tensions, foment dissent among faiths and attempt to bring disunity amongst the communities of the borough. We condemn the fascist EDL whose sole objective is to act as storm troopers for the British National Party (BNP) and pick up the pieces for them after their miserable rout in the local and national elections in neighbouring Barking and Dagenham Council. Under the guise of being non-political and upholding “English” values they are propagating a virulent form of naked Islamophobia which is rejected by the communities of Tower Hamlets. We will do everything in our power to defend the peace in the borough, protect the lives of Muslims and ensure that the unity amongst all is maintained.
This borough has a rich tradition of successful challenge to fascist forces of the Blackshirts and the National Front. The Battle of Cable Street in the 30,s and the Struggle for Brick Lane following Altab Ali’s murder in the 70’s and the move to oust Derek Beackon in the 90’s is part of our common history. The values of universalism, anti-racism and no compromise with fascism inform our thinking and has become part of our existence. We will build on this rich tradition as we face Oswald Mosley’s grandchildren.
As we confront the fascist thugs of EDL we in the Bengali and the Muslim community are being asked to stand side by side with Islamic Forum in Europe (IFE). This we refuse to do. The IFE does not represent the Muslim community in Tower Hamlets. They do not uphold the glorious tradition of Cable Street, Altab Ali and the anti racist movement. Under the patronage of an exclusivist Islam emanating from Saudi Arabia they are attempting to impose it amongst the Bengalis in this borough. Just as the EDL takes the guise of being ordinary English citizen to hide their true identity of fronting the fascist BNP so do IFE act as the sole representatives of ordinary Muslims but are in fact operating under the direction of their parent organisation Jamaat-e- Islami in Bangladesh. It is Jamaat that was party to the massacre of innocent Bangladeshis in the 1971 war of independence that establish the independent state of Bangladesh. A war Tribunal has been established in Bangladesh to try leaders of Jaamat-e- Islam who are IFE’s real ideological and organisational gurus. In other words IFE represent a virulent form of political Islam that is fascistic in nature like Jaamat Islam and verges on the anti-Semitic and is very exclusivist and undemocratic.
In defending the people of Tower Hamlets and especially the ordinary Muslims we do not have to defend IFE. EDL is attacking the Muslims of this borough and we must protect them. IFE must not be allowed to use this occasion to propagate their very reactionary version of political Islam.
We must also alert the entire community about the opportunist and divisive politics of IFE. Using this latest EDL threat to the local community, it is clear to us that the IFE brigade is trying to terrify the most vulnerable in our community – the Bangladeshi women and children into joining their ranks under the banner of ‘defending the Ummah’. It has come to our knowledge that IFE and its operatives have sent out mass e-mails, text messages and visited members of the community including young children in primary schools ask them to join forces and defend Muslims and East London Mosque from imminent threat of destruction.
All progressive forces must realize that the gut reaction to EDL is to defend everybody including IFE because they might be accused of being Islamophobic. But we boldly proclaim that it is not Islamophobic to have no trucks with the heirs of Fascist Jaamat. It is not Islamophobic to denounce the anti democratic credentials of IFE and their Saudi patrons. It is not Islamophobic to show solidarity with the Muslims of Tower Hamlets and their diverse representative organisations without marching under the leadership of IFE. We cannot be consistent in fighting the fascist EDL if we elect the “fascist” IFE as our Imam. In line with the best in the Islamic and Bengali tradition we reject the siren calls of IFE as we prepare to organise against EDL.
On behalf of:
Harmuz Ali (Bangladesh Welfare Association - BWA), Sajjadur Rahman (Brick Lane Mosque), Shamsuddin Shams (Altab Ali Memorial Foundation), Badrul Islam (Centre for Citizenship and Development (CCD), Akikur Rahman (Bangladesh Youth Association), Rajonuddin Jalal (London Bangladeshi Association), Ansar Ahmed Ullah (Nirmul Committee), Mahmoud Rauf (Brick Lane Business Association), Abdus Subhan Gedu (Banglatown Restaurant Association), Ethnic Minority Enterprise Project (EMEP), Abdul Ali Rauf (Chicksand Citizen’s Forum), Collective of Bangladeshi School Governors, Tower Hamlets Parents Centre, Tower Hamlets Parents Association, APASENTH, BYM, Nurul Islam (Kendrio Shaheed Minar Committee), Sundar Miah (Tarling Tenants & Residents Association), Nooruddin Ahmed (Bangladesh Youth League), Ruhul Amin (Progressive Youth Organisation), Taimus Ali (Bangladesh Youth Front), Shahab Uddin Ahmed Belal (Human Rights Secretary, Awami League), Cathy Forrester, Claire Murphy, Phil Maxwell, Terry Fitzpatrick (Blair Peach Project), Syed Sad Ahmed, Fanu Miah (Golden Moon Youth Project), Julie Begum (Swadhinata Trust), Amina Ali (international Forum for Secular Bangladesh), Sujit Sen (Liberation), Gita Sahgal, Subir Sinha, Alice Sielle (St. Barnabas church Bethnal Green), Imtiar Shamim (Muktangon: Nirman Blog), Rayhan Rashid (War Crimes Strategy Forum), Saikat Acharjee (WCSF), Nowrin Tamanna (University of Reading), Anisur Rahman Anis ( Bangladesh Human Rights Council UK), James Swapan Peris ( Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council- European committee), Whitechapel Anarchist Group, Ansarul Haque, Tower Hamlets Muslim Council & Jim Fitzpatrick MP Poplar and Limehouse.
Contact for further details:
Mr. Nurul Islam – 07984 610199 / 07836 332262
On behalf of UNITY PLATFORM AGAINST RACISM AND FASCISM
C/O Bangladesh Welfare Association, 39 Fournier Street, London E1 6QL
~End~
Comment by glyn — 18 June, 2010 @ 8:09 pm
#103 Good
#104 To be fair not all ‘Trots’ are SWP or take their line on this.
Comment by Howard Kirk — 18 June, 2010 @ 8:28 pm
What this website needs now is a bile-ometer and when it reaches a certain level the thread automatically self-destructs. I think we’re on critical in here. Ha-ha!
Comment by Stockwell Pete — 18 June, 2010 @ 8:28 pm
response to #103, from IFE
Comment by Andy Newman — 18 June, 2010 @ 9:26 pm
I’m slighlty amazed that people can’t distinguish between a group suffering extreme oppression like Muslims are, and a nasty rasist group like the EDL. It appears from the posts here the a Muslim population deserves to be targetted by the EDL because there are people with nasty views who are Muslims. Well, where does that stop, there are a lot of people with stupid views in england, are we going to nuke ourselves, or is losing every four years a collective punishment for the nasty views of a minority of Sun readers?
Comment by Anonymous — 18 June, 2010 @ 9:28 pm
Nuke yourselves- Andy thats the best thing ive heard you say.
Comment by eamonn wright — 18 June, 2010 @ 9:42 pm
The cat seems to be out of the bag Andy.
Comment by Paul Stott — 18 June, 2010 @ 9:50 pm
#109
??
Comment by Andy Newman — 18 June, 2010 @ 9:52 pm
I’ve just spoken to Phil Maxwell and as well as confirming that he hadn’t signed the statement, he also stated that he disagreed with the content and was very angry that his name had been added to the list of signatories.
Comment by Nathan Anderson — 18 June, 2010 @ 10:11 pm
Great to see the Whitechapel Anarchists lining up with New Labour Islamophobe and scab Jim Fitzpatrick maan thats really radical and good grief are those religious types as well surely our super atheist anarchist brethern should be denouncing them as well
I suspect they all had one too many in drownding their sorrows watching ‘their’ Ingerland lads fuck it up against those dirty Algerians
Them anarchists they’d line up with anyone so long as they’ve no principles
GET A WASH
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 10:17 pm
Try and play the ball not the man Billy.
There are almost as many stereotypical cliches in your posts as the EDL come out…..
Comment by Paul Stott — 18 June, 2010 @ 10:31 pm
ry and play the ball not the man Billy.
There are almost as many stereotypical cliches in your posts as the EDL come out with…..
Comment by Paul Stott — 18 June, 2010 @ 10:32 pm
Paul put the can of Special Brew down before you type and let that fucking dog go ….oh and get a fucking wash you middle class wanker
Like your one of your WAG/EDL pals I’ve been ‘amongst’ anarchists and they stink badly and not even the sweet smell of roach end spliffs can mask the stench of their foul reactionary politics though it is true that as at least half of them work for the old bill they do get access to the best stuff though most of its been taken off kids in Brixton.
And it looks like the made up list of names is falling apart ,soon it’ll just be WAG/EDL and good old Jimmy Fitzpatrick
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 10:39 pm
Billy - what the Anarchists have been doing in Whitechapel is putting good solid socialist principles into action. It is perfectly possible for anti-fascists to oppose the EDL and at the same time express contempt for Islamist organisations such as the UK-IC. Socialists cede ground and influence in our communities to such groups at our peril.
Sadly a small number of ’socialists’ have become so tied up in identity politics they have become incapable of saying anything even slightly uncomplimentary to any organisation that claims to be from an oppressed or ethnic group. That these ’socialists’ need Anarchists to remind of what were once core principles must be hard to take. Hence your rather childish series of insults in place of political debate.
Ultimately, it is about being able to walk and chew gum at the same time. We can do that.
Can you?
Comment by Paul Stott — 18 June, 2010 @ 10:51 pm
Your’e tie up with Jimmy Fitzpatrick reveals your ’socialist’principles and socialists don’t need any lessons form an organisation that praises the EDL on its forums.
The WAG/EDL are summed up by old Hegels maxim ‘from nothing through nothing to nothing’
As for you grossly overblown belief in the importance of your piss pot organisation you and I both no no one gives a fuck what you say or claim to do especially in Whitechapel any way I’m bored you anarchists are such easy meat ,got activity tomorrow you should try it some time
Night night and roll me a fat one
Oh and fuck off and get a wash
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:10 pm
@#105 I agree, but on the other hand, this is one of the funniest threads I’ve seen for a long time…
Comment by Graham Day — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:11 pm
“…what the Anarchists have been doing in Whitechapel is putting good solid socialist principles into action.”
Perhaps they have but based on the reactionary attacks against other TH activists in this thread some of your anarchist mates have let your side down badly. Think on that before you defend some of the sectarian bile dressed up as so-called “criticism” in this thread.
Some of the attacks in this thread on so-called “outsiders” involved in TH anti-racist movement are akin to the foul rhetoric of the EDL. The fact that the SWP, Respect and IFE have some of the highest concentration of members in TH makes such accusations ludicrous. It’s like foreigners in Poland complaining about too many Poles.
Comment by Ray — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:15 pm
Hi Bill - I am not a member of WAG (I live in Hackney, not Tower Hamlets) but admire the clarity of their principles. For someone who ‘does not give a fuck’ what WAG says or does, you seem to have got rather excited about them?
Thanks for your advice on how to bring my evening to a close (its nice to see you are good for something) but sadly I don’t smoke - it is not good for either cycling or martial arts.
Comment by Paul Stott — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:26 pm
What the WAG/EDL mean by ‘outsiders’ is people from outside their squat or commune as they dub it ,though actually it was an old georgian house left to one of them ( Timothy I think)by uncle Edward.
We should disrupt their meetings by surrounding them with buckets of warm soapy water and deoderant.
We are fortunate in that most of them sleep throughout the day
What we do see when one of them is sober enough to articulate what passes for their political ideas is deeply reactionary right wing views given a pseudo radical gloss .funny how they ahve all discovered how ‘backward’ Islam is ,just as Muslims face a rising tide of racism of course 60 years ago it would have been Jews who would have found their religious beliefs attacked by these super atheists,funny one of them eamonn has a link to a Irish republican site though weren’t most of them Catholics. But luckily for them they were white so ‘their deeply reactionary religion’ was progressive
The WAG/EDL group will vanish up its own arsehole and the sooner the better
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:33 pm
Well said Paul Stott. I support the demo on Sunday and will be there (and chewing gum!) but in the long run our efforts to challenge the EDL will be seriously undermined if we cannot simultaneously fight for equality within our own communities.
Communities attacked by racists include progressives and reactionaries and many who who have not been politically involved and committed up to now. The EDL has recently announced it has a Jewish division (whose face book page seems to be populated mainly by expatriate very right wing Israelis) and as a Jewish progressive and anti-fascist I certainly do not seek any unity with them against antisemitism. We can fight against antisemitism and against Jewish reactionaries at the same time.
In building coalitions against racists and fascists in Tower Hamlets people across different communities who respect equality need to be brought together in the first instance. Andy may take the IFE statement about themselves at face value, but a lot of people know the kind of views they have espoused and the kind of speakers they have promoted in recent years.
If Sunday’s demo has a broad and diverse base that will be good and useful.I hope the trade unions associated with it bring numbers and are not just there on paper. If it ends up being dominated by the fundamentalists of IFE it will be at the expense of the wider Bengali community and other communities in the area and be a step backwards in the fight for equality and against racism and fascism.
Comment by David Rosenberg — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:33 pm
Since when was rolling a spliff classed as a martial art and as for cycling get the bus you dirty bastard
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:38 pm
And Kung Fu didn’t do David Carridine much good did it
Comment by Billy Bell — 18 June, 2010 @ 11:42 pm
I would prefer it if Billy Bell
stopped going round the houses
told us what he really thinks about
anarchists instead of trying to spare
people’s feelings.
Comment by Evan — 19 June, 2010 @ 12:43 am
Im not an anarchist Billy- im a member of the 32 County Sovereignty Movement- which last time i looked was an Irish Republican Organisation with no lack of cleanliness and working class activists who live in real working class communities.
So Billy, what organisation has the dubious honour of classing you as its member?
Comment by eamonn wright — 19 June, 2010 @ 12:52 am
it seems there is some doubt over this UPARAF statement. You know what though there is much to doubt in politics. it is clearly wrong if names have been added, and it appears both the BYM and WAG were not consulted, but is that worse than Galloway or UAF working with a group that is Islamist and has it’s roots in ‘fascism’. but the crux of the argument made remains.
“We must also alert the entire community about the opportunist and divisive politics of IFE. Using this latest EDL threat to the local community, it is clear to us that the IFE brigade is trying to terrify the most vulnerable in our community – the Bangladeshi women and children into joining their ranks under the banner of ‘defending the Ummah’. It has come to our knowledge that IFE and its operatives have sent out mass e-mails, text messages and visited members of the community including young children in primary schools ask them to join forces and defend Muslims and East London Mosque from imminent threat of destruction.
All progressive forces must realize that the gut reaction to EDL is to defend everybody including IFE because they might be accused of being Islamophobic. But we boldly proclaim that it is not Islamophobic to have no trucks with the heirs of Fascist Jaamat. It is not Islamophobic to denounce the anti democratic credentials of IFE and their Saudi patrons. It is not Islamophobic to show solidarity with the Muslims of Tower Hamlets and their diverse representative organisations without marching under the leadership of IFE. We cannot be consistent in fighting the fascist EDL if we elect the “fascist” IFE as our Imam. In line with the best in the Islamic and Bengali tradition we reject the siren calls of IFE as we prepare to organise against EDL.”
can any socialist disagree with this?
Comment by glyn — 19 June, 2010 @ 8:46 am
“can any socialist disagree with this?”
Obviously the majority of socialists do that’s why we’re supporting the IFE. Calling them fascist is just an attempt to whip up hatred towards one section of Muslims that is divisive and plays into the hands of the racist and nazis. Stop concern trolling - it’s so bloody obvious.
Comment by Ray — 19 June, 2010 @ 9:08 am
Ray - many socialists are going there to support the fight against racism and fascism not to “support the IFE”. When the EDL uses the fact that an Islamic fundamentalist event was going to happen to rationalise its desire to invade the area and spread its more general racist and fascist message - then quite clearly we must oppose the EDL. But that doesn’t mean we suspend all judgement about the politics of Islamic fundamentalism. We know the EDL wasn’t flying in to defend Jews from antisemitism, gays and lesbians from homophobia and women from misogyny - but to abuse and attack the local community. But don’t we also want to challenge antisemitsm, homophobia and misogyny? Or is that suspended until “after the revolution”?
Some people I know who are very good, longstanding socialists and anti-fascists in the locality have unfortunately decided not to be there tomorrow because the organisers have been so deferential to the ultra-reactionaries of the IFE who represent a determined political faction with a power base but are not representative of the broader Bangladeshi community of the area.
I think they are wrong to decide not to join the march but I sympathise very much with their dilemma - and though I am joining the march there is much that I agree with in the UPARAF statement - and much that other principled socialists socialists should too.
The way to combat the EDL and their ilk and to marginalise reactionaries and fundamentalists who capitalise on these situations, is not to be absent but to ensure there is a broad-based united demonstration. Let’s hope that tomorrow fulfils its promise.
Comment by David Rosenberg — 19 June, 2010 @ 10:20 am
#126 Soap and water working class me pal ,cleanliness continuity brigade .
Good to see a internet republicanism is alive and kicking
Up the RA
Comment by Billy Bell — 19 June, 2010 @ 10:22 am
#129 Any ‘good socialist’ who refuses to go on the demo because of the possible presence of alleged ‘reactionaries and fundamentalists’is no such thing.
Should we check everyones views before they march to see if they conform to some pre determined check list.
Presumably you won’t march against racism with anyone who say voted Labour ( party of racism imperialism etc etc) What about those who hold any religous ideas what about those who believe in non racist immigration controls( a contradiction in terms)
the list could go on and on, what about reactionary anarchists with emaciated dogs held captive by pieces of oppressive string .
Sorry in the face of facsism we need unity ,in the course of which we can then engage and challenge all kinds of reactionary ideas ( incidently these are not confined to Muslims though you wouldn’t know it by some of the comments here)
Personally I’d be quite happy if the politically pure brigade kept away they never bring anyone anyway as no one is good enough
I call em Bill Baileys after the song
Comment by Billy Bell — 19 June, 2010 @ 10:38 am
As far as I can see the question is, are you on the side of the EDL’s target victims unconditionally or not?
The EDL don’t in reality make any distinction amongst muslims- all are their enemy.
The problem I have with some of those who hwve posted here is that your position (probably in many cases in spite of what you actually want) will inevitably be seen as putting conditions on which muslime you will stand with against the EDL.
When you are aligned with the likes of Terry Fizpatrick who has made fairly clear on this blog that he has as much if not more hatred for the far left and certain muslims than he does the far right, this impression is only compounded.
I’m not going to get into the specifics of the situation in Tower Hamlets as I don’t live there and can only go by what people I trust tell me.
One thing I do find ironic is that some of the people on the left who make such a big deal about muslim fundamentalists and put consequent conditions on opposing islamaphobia is that I don’t recall them being quite so discerning and purist when Saudi (and CIA)-backed islamists were fighting the Soviet Union and its allies in Afghanistan.
Comment by evan — 19 June, 2010 @ 1:03 pm
Sorry just noticed unfortunate typo- clearly no offence intended feel free to correct Andy.
Comment by evan — 19 June, 2010 @ 1:05 pm
#130 and many others.
Billy, is it possible that you are the toughest man on ‘the left’ like ever? I bet you get through the keyboards as your typing seems very tough indeed. You’ve impressed me deeply x
Comment by Eddie — 19 June, 2010 @ 2:00 pm
#134 clearly but then soft lads like you have always been impressed by workers ,just never been one have you
Incidently here’s a tip anyone who threatens violence is unlikely to carry it out,its the ones who say nowt then strike you want to be afraid of.
I’ll look out for you pissing your pants at the next demo
Comment by Billy Bell — 19 June, 2010 @ 2:12 pm
Ray writes “Obviously the majority of socialists do that’s why we’re supporting the IFE. ”
I do hope this post is a joke or an EDL troll. I can’t see too many of the posters on this blog flourishing in any society run by the IFE (as unlikely, thankfully in the west, as that is), or in the long term prospering in any community dominated by the IFE.
Comment by Paul Stott — 19 June, 2010 @ 2:17 pm
Paul such touching confidence in ‘the west’ for an Anarchist ,why without fundamentalists like IFE they’d be no homophobia,sexism or religous intolerance in our wonderful liberal society
Of course the IFE are not going to dominate the ‘ west’ their ideas don’t even dominate in the ‘east’
What is going on here though is a really foul insidious attempt by various reactionary elements led by WAG/EDL and the likes of the Alliance for Islamphobia to brand ALL muslims as homophobic sexists etc thus excusing why they refuse to work with Muslims.
Could you imagine if we substituted the word Jew for Muslim how this would look.
Oh and your Ingerland team were shit Paul
Anarchists ..we reject every state but our own !
Comment by Billy Bell — 19 June, 2010 @ 2:30 pm
#135 Billy, they say you always hurt the ones you love.
See you soon x
Comment by Eddie — 19 June, 2010 @ 2:30 pm
#138 hey I’ve made a new friend always knew tough love was the best
NOW FUCK OFF AND GET A WASH YOU ANARCHIST WANKER
Comment by Billy Bell — 19 June, 2010 @ 2:32 pm
Billy - off to work shortly, but two last comments for you.
Firstly if you think the IFE are so deserving of your support, and that giving ground to them is a good idea, you could always try and do a paper sale in a country that stripe of Islam actually dominates. How are socialist comrades in Saudi Arabia doing these days, under actually existing shariah?
Secondly it is remarkably how prescient Anarchists have actually been in explaining the dangers of the EDL. For a good 12 months or more they have explained the main dangers as being
1. That the EDL encourages or takes part in racist attacks on Muslims
2. That in responding to the EDL, we see attacks upon random whites by Muslim youths (which we saw in Birmingham, and appear to be getting now in Tower Hamlets, according to recent reports)
3. That the EDL retard debate about Islam in Britain, to one with racists on one side and professional anti-racists and Islamists on the other.
The tragedy of point 3 is that genuinely progressive, important voices such as the One Law For All campaign are drowned out. Still, you can read their new report here:
http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/new-report-sharia-law-in-britain-a-threat-to-one-law-for-all-and-equal-rights/
Comment by Paul Stott — 19 June, 2010 @ 2:46 pm
Every posting from the Anarchists reveal how reactionary they are, the first part of your last post could have been written by that racist prick Tool, funny how Sharia is the new watchword of every racist prick. Of course Sharia is not the law of this land ,no that’s the law of the rich. Was it Sharia law that outlawed the BA or RMT strikes is it Sharia law that see’s Black youth picked up on Sus or see’s children deported to Iraq.
From what I can tell the Anarchist/EDL overlap is that they want to direct their fire at an easy target Muslims,again dovetailing nicely with the Daily Mail etc
Listen my unwashed reactionary bigot the problems facing my class ( which is clearly not yours) is not Sharia law but the bosses law.
Incidently why a debate about Islam ,why not Judeaism or Catholicism or Buddhism oh I know why because we’re engaged in a clash of civilisations and as usual the Anarchist are with the right
So you’re off to work I fucking hate to have a smelly unwashed middle class wanker as my boss especially one that calls himself an Anarchist
Enjoy
Comment by Billy Bell — 19 June, 2010 @ 6:11 pm
“I do hope this post is a joke or an EDL troll.”
I’m a socialist, you know, the type that fights side by side with the oppressed and doesn’t pander to racist Islamophobia. Try it sometime.
“I can’t see too many of the posters on this blog flourishing in any society run by the IFE (as unlikely, thankfully in the west, as that is), or in the long term prospering in any community dominated by the IFE.”
Yes, every time I go to Brick Lane I’m struck by the lack of multi-cultural vibrancy that is so common in the Greater London suburbs I assume Mr Stott inhabits. That IFE lot have completely undermined the myriad or pubs, bars, eateries of all cultural persuasions, art galleries, coffee bars, fashion shops and sundry other multi-cultural enterprises that exist in Brick Lane, haven’t they Paul? The very large Buddhist Center near Bethnal Green must be a further indication of the great threat that the IFE pose to diversity in TH.
Have you ever visited TH, Paul? Try it sometime.
Comment by Ray — 19 June, 2010 @ 6:50 pm
@Billy Bell
In the real world by the second time you screamed “FUCK OFF GET A WASH” you would have already hit the floor.
Thank god for the internet, huh?
Comment by A — 19 June, 2010 @ 7:30 pm
The left/right dichotomy has lost all meaning when criticising the IFE places you on the right!
Have you ever visited planet earth Ray? Try it sometime.
Comment by Paul Stott — 20 June, 2010 @ 9:18 am
Friends (and others) I’m really gobsmacked by your intellect on this thread.
Perhaps we should keep it in a museum (of mental pathology) ?
Comment by Einstein — 20 June, 2010 @ 10:55 am
I see A the unwahed Anarchist reads comics
Fuck off and get a baarth
is that better posh lad ?
Comment by Billy Bell — 20 June, 2010 @ 11:13 am
Oh I see the WAG/EDL group had its name put on the bogus statement without their knowledge thats what happens when your organisation is riddled with coppers
Comment by Billy Bell — 20 June, 2010 @ 11:49 am
Perhaps inevitably given the UAF’s failure to offer a clear condemnation of the EDL and UK-IC (or even Al-Mujihiroun) they stumble into media coverage such as this:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday#p/search/1/9qt_Q06wI8o
Whatever the many faults of Russia Today, such coverage is hardly surprising.
Comment by Paul Stott — 23 June, 2010 @ 2:39 pm
Funny how the racist edl are prepared to demo with muslims who support one law for all. Maybe they are correct. These are not the most extreme views given by Deobandi alumni. The leading voice in Britain is Riyadh ul Haq, a graduate of the Darul Uloom school in Bury. Aged 36, ul Haq is seen as the dominant influence on Deobandi mosques in Britain, which account for 600 of Britain’s 1,400 mosques.
His sermons are often inflammatory. On Jews, he has said: ‘They’re all the same. They’ve monopolised everything: the Holocaust, God, money, interest, usury, the world economy, the media, political institutions . . . they monopolised tyranny and oppression as well. And injustice.’
‘These religious schools are now part of the fabric of Britain’s education system’
And on integrating in Britain he has said: ‘We are in a very dangerous position here. We live among the kuffar [unbelievers] . . . And anyone who thinks that they can work with the kuffar, associate with them, mix with them, stand and sit with them, move among them and not be affected, is in denial and is a liar to himself.’
Read more: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1288053/Inside-Muslim-Eton-Their-day-starts-3-45am-goes-disciplined-20-hours-Their-aim-produce-Muslim-elite-leaders-.html#ixzz0sRxywKg3
Comment by bill — 1 July, 2010 @ 7:00 pm