Kate de Brito
Monday, August 02, 2010 at 08:02am
Dear Bossy: I have a question for you all and wonder what you guys think about if I am doing something wrong. I am a single girl, who is friends with a married couple, as is just as good as friends with each of them, or well so I thought. Just recently I have been talking to the husband a little bit more, and the wife is all upset about it. I don’t see any problems with talking to a friend, and I don’t see that we are flirty, we just talk, we both have a common interest (a sport) and I assure you that it is all innocent.
My question is should I stop talking to the husband because now all of the sudden the wife isn’t happy about it (and she thinks it is ruining her marriage), or should I just keep going and talking to him and hope she gets over it (which is what he thinks), or the third option, is to RUN FOR THE HILLS and stay completely out of it.
Signed
Unsure if I’m home wrecking
Bossy says: It’s pretty simple. Back off. He’s her husband. You are just a friend. And probably not a very close one either.
This woman might be crazy or paranoid or jealous. Or she may have an inkling of what her husband really feels for you. Whatever is going on in their private lives, it’s good to remember they are married. They are trying to build a long term relationship. You and him? You’re just talking about sport.
The thing to consider when you weigh up your life is whether you will feel more comfortable about stepping away from a situation that made another friend so obviously uncomfortable or knowing you stood your ground so you could have some ripping conversations about sailing/indoor cricket/cycling.
Stop singling him out for solo chats, no matter how gripping. That’s a start. Spend more time talking to his wife. She obviously feels you have turned your focus solely onto her man. The fact it is innocent from your perspective isn’t the point.
If she is genuinely a friend, as you say, you will want her to be comfortable around you, not constantly in fear for her marriage.
Heh, Threesome, then run like hell!
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:09am)
Mon 02 Aug 10 (01:05pm)
seems like the best plan… unless you value your friends
For a Monday this is a no brainer, severely scale your down your friendship or cut it altogether. If the women feels threatens, and even if she is paranoid, then back off. You are causing friction in their marriage and 3 really is a crowd.
Just picture it from her side, she sees you talking to husband as much as her, so what would you think? Sometimes not everything is black & white.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:10am)
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:07am)
Yes… Seriously Time to let go and find new friends eh ?, You’ve become so friendly (to both of em) that theres now 3 in the bed and the little wife said “FUCK OFF!”
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:43am)
And sometimes everything IS black and white. For example the scenario described by the marriage-wrecking ball above.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (10:27am)
Yeah she should really scale it back with the man and engage the wife more.
That said the wife’s paranoia does not spell good things for their marriage. Looks like they have work to do.
If the wife doesn’t have grounds for being worried and I was the husband, I wouldn’t be happy if I couldn’t talk to any other woman about innocent subjects unless she looked ugly or was a relative. Then again, I probably wouldn’t be in a relationship with a woman who would be jealous like that in the first place.
Do women think that it’s ok to control who their husband does and doesn’t talk to like this? And please don’t say that it isn’t control and that the man should just do it because he wants to. I understand that in a relationship you should be careful about your partner’s feelings, but I don’t like the idea of every guy having to get permission for things like this.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (11:54am)
The problem here is not her friendship with him; it is the wife’s general insecurities.
I disagree completely with the idea heterosexual men and women can’t be friends.
Whoever’s fault. The man is likely to keep his marriage together and side with the wife and start cutting off the OP.
Doesn’t deal with the with the crazy of the wife!
Mon 02 Aug 10 (12:56pm)
Agree, By Stealth - and it goes both ways as I can’t stand guys who control who their women can talk to.
And it CAN be innocent! Women are talkers and that CAN just be it. Doesn’t mean they want to root everyone’s husband.
If it was me, I’d tell THEM to piss off and grow up and wouldn’t have anything to do with them. Just let them be pathetic together with no close friends. She probably stops him from going to the Pub with his mates in case the bar maid’s cute.
Insecurity and jealousy - what a waste of energy.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (01:57pm)
@ ByStealth - Of course the wife doesn’t have a right to “control who her husband talks to”. That doesn’t mean she has to put up with him spending all his time off with some other woman.
The husband should act in a way that gives her confidence in his integrity - in this case, he should be saying “I understand that you’re feeling crowded by her. There’s no chance of anything happening between her and I, but your happiness is more important to me than my friendship with her, so I will cut back the time I spend with her.”
Mon 02 Aug 10 (02:15pm)
ByStealth - it works both ways, if the husband is paranoid, he also has a right to request explanation and scaling back from his wife.
When your partner starts spending a lot of time with the opposite sex (or the same if you’re a gay couple) then it’s not always a bad thing to pull them up on it. For all we know, the husband may have cheated on his wife in the past or on a previous partner and the wife knows about it (but the OP doesn’t) hence her paranoia is not without reason.
Or, maybe the wife has cheated in the past and is paranoid because she’s remembering how it started for her…
In relationships it is vital to take the other person’s feelings into account and try not to do things that will cause them anxiety. IF the anxiety is all encompassing and ridiculous, then the sufferer should seek counselling. From what’s been said here though, this doesn’t seem to be the case.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (04:11pm)
As Bossy said, it might be more how the husband feels about/is reacting to the ‘friend’ that is the problem. If he is obviously attracted to the friend, the wife may feel threatened.
I trust my hubby implicitly, and don’t care how other women behave toward him, whether it is an innocent chat or an invitation to bed. I know he is not going to cheat, so it doesn’t matter what comes from the other person. It’s all about trust!
Regardless of this however, do you want to be seen as a marriage wrecker? If not, then back off and let them sort it out by themselves. If the problem is him, it will soon become apparent.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (04:23pm)
@Stealth - it’s more whether the wife is being pushed out of the conversations altogether, if they used to engage her and now don’t or they go out to bars together to chat and leave her out, it looks a little suspect especially if she was friends with the wife first, then it looks like she was only using the wife to get to the husband
Mon 02 Aug 10 (06:04pm)
My wife is so controlling of who i talk to I now appear rude when a woman talks to me because i’m scared of the fallout!
She says she doesnt trust other women… feels like I’m not trusted and as a result I;ve lost some female friends along the way - her friends at that!
As a result i have a bitterness to her over this.
I feel the poor fella… jelous wives can be poisionous.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:39pm)
The wife is clearly guilty of domestic abuse.
Go into any cop shop and check out the domestic abuse posters - limiting who a person can and cannot see is domestic abuse.
Or does that not apply if a woman is calling the shots?
Tue 03 Aug 10 (09:59am)
Good responses guys. I’m glad to see paranoia without grounds isn’t the common approach when women are in relationships with men. I appreciate that this happens the other way too with men controlling their partners.
My concern is guys in serious relationships being cut off from their friends and then having no one to help them pick up the pieces if things fall over. I hate the idea of dependancy as I saw a mate of mine get shattered by this.
Silly girl, if the wife is saying to you that thier marriage is being hurt then her marriage is being hurt.
Get off the self righteous horse you’re riding about “being friends”. I suspect you’re taking a lot more of this man’s time than you’re letting on.
Wake up to the fact that you are seen as a threat, and can adversely affect the happiness of a married couple just by “being a friend”. Sex isn’t the only way to compromaise a marriage.
The bottom line? Leave them alone.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:12am)
Mon 02 Aug 10 (01:26pm)
Could not have said it better myself mate. Well done.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:02pm)
I reckon its the husband’s responsibility to put the OP in her place, then the wife in her place.
It should go like this:
Husband to OP: Look, f-off. You might know a little bit about sport, but the only reason why I tolerate your substandard opinion is because you have cracking tits. It is shitting my wife, and rightly so, so auf weidersehen, toots. There are plenty of single blokes who will give you an ego boost. Don’t be one of those desperate tarts who pursues what is unattainable.
Husband to wife: I told OP to f-off because I understand that it worried you. See? You have nothing to be concerned about. I’m a good husband like that. Now, fetch me a scotch and fix me a steak, footys on.
Tue 03 Aug 10 (12:56pm)
hired goon, I like you.
Although I’d add that when the wife came back with the scotch and the steak, she’d be fully deserving of that back massage with scented oils that she’d get after dinner. Gotta keep the balance! That’s why my friends *and* my wife’s friends are envious of how much we both get out of our relationship.
Tue 03 Aug 10 (08:22pm)
Ok then. So as soon as everyone is grown up and married and paired off, we are only allowed to have friends of the same sex?
Are we not allowed to stay friends with our guy friends because they get girlfriends… or do we have to lay low until we find boyfriends, so we are seen as less of a threat. Fcking joke.
I agree if the wife ‘thinks’ the OP is ruining the marriage, then she should back off.... but the OP is allowed to have her gripe about it because this wife sounds like a silly, insecure, jealous and paranoid little girl. They mustnt have much trust in the marriage if a few conversations make her anxious. bitch. grow up.
Easiest question we’ll get all week - stay out of it. We had someone like you around here once before and she got the same advice.
If all you’re talking about is sport, essentially, can’t you find someone else to talk sport with? Put the shoe on the other foot and think how you’d feel if your partner kept gravitating towards another woman on a regular basis. I think it would eventually get under the skin of most people - but perhaps not the supremely confident, and there aren’t all that many of those. Don’t we all have even the smallest seed of insecurity in us somewhere? Don’t keep fertilising her insecurity seed.
It never ceases to amaze me how women think men are really just their friends. I have only one GENUINE male friend, and he’s gay.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:14am)
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:40am)
One genuine male friend? Any non-genuine ones? I was going to ask whether you lived in Saudi Arabia but then I thought, nah, you can’t usually be friends with a headless gay person…
Mon 02 Aug 10 (10:56am)
We men are quite simple. Intimacy/friendship + any semblance of physical attractiveness = sexual attraction. Not that it isn’t necessarily ‘innocent’ right now; he’s probably kidding himself that you’re just a mate too. Sooner or later though, he’s thinking ‘why aren’t I married to OP?’ and picturing you naked.
Plus, if your common interest is sport it is quite possible that you are more physically active that the wife and she therefore has every reason to feel worried about hubby.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (11:09am)
Ha!
When I say genuine male friend, I mean in the sense that he’s “mine” and not “ours”. As a couple we are friends with other couples and single guys, but I wouldn’t seek them out to spend time alone with them or to just call for a chat.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (11:31am)
Chunks - most women have several non-genuine male friends. These are the guys who hang around her because they’re attracted to her but who are good enough at pretending they’re ‘real’ friends that she lets them continue.
The only time a man can genuinely be friends and not want anything more with a woman is when he’s not physically attracted to her (usually because he’s gay, or he’s already boning a hotter chick, or she’s that fugly). Chips just happens to be one of those rare women who’s honest enough to admit it.
For example, my wife has a ‘genuine’ male friend who is an absolute top bloke and I don’t feel threatened at all by him - even though he’s currently single because his boyfriend broke up with him. :/
Mon 02 Aug 10 (12:45pm)
Wow, i completely Agree,
Dont you just hate the girl thats a friend of “both of us” that comes around ALL the time , hangs on your husband (just as friends) flirts with hubby (just as friends) goes out to clubs together (just as friends) dirty dancing in the clubs, just mucking around (just as friends) spends the night after staying up all night chatting intimitely (just as friends) ... yeah…
I dont think you or him are fooling anyone, your actions as YOU put them to us OP sprout that theres more than friendship there, and the fact youve been told to leave them alone and thats not only not a simple task but you are seeking advice wether you should ignore it and continue seems like your desperate to find any excuse to spend ALL the time you can with this person. I mean Fucking serious, who are you kidding ? If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then its probably a chicken ? wtf..
You know what rings alarm bells for me? That the husband has placed talking to you ahead of his wife’s feelings - She says she’s uncomfortable with what’s happening, and his response is ‘keep going, she’ll get over it’. That says to me that the wife is right to be worried. You might think its innocent but he might be harbouring a crush. It happens. Being married, even happily so, doesn’t stop the eye from wandering or make people suddenly impervious to the flattering attentions of a single lady or fellow.
So I’d back off, at least for a bit.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:26am)
Mon 02 Aug 10 (11:17am)
This. I’ve seen this situation play out plenty of times (including for me, more than once, until I figured it out).
Usually the jealous partner blames the outside attention, but their problem is really with the way the other partner is acting. Let’s call them Adam and Eve. At some point in the past, Eve’s felt (rightly or wrongly) that Unsure might be chasing Adam, and told him so, at which point he’s said “blah blah just friends don’t be silly” and kept hanging around with Unsure. This sends a clear message to Eve that she’s not as important to Adam as Unsure is, so obviously Eve feels even more insecure.
So yes, Unsure should back off, but that’s not this couple’s underlying problem. If Adam doesn’t get his priorities straight, and start respecting his wife’s feelings, he’ll eventually destroy all trust Eve has in him and she’ll leave him.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (03:09pm)
Yeah - I totally agree. Just because you don’t have feelings doesn’t mean that he doesn’t.
I am sure the wife is right to be concerned.
Socialise with BOTH of them - at the same time.
You can still talk sport (and whatever other common interests you have - unless they are of the sexual kind), but the wife will be there to see that everything is innocent and that you and the husband aren’t shagging.
For all you know the husband could have a history of having affairs which the wife knows about and fears is happening again. You mention that you consider yourself to be “good friends” with both of them, so socialise with BOTH of them.
Good luck.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:30am)
If the wife says you are causing a problem then you are causing a problem. Her husband is a complete numpty for perpetuating the drama by telling you to just ignore his chosen life partner. It won’t be long before the rumours start about you, him, a bottle Captain Morgan, a pitching wedge, some ice and the team mascot outfit.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:31am)
Back off out of it!!! regardless of weather you think you are doin something wrong, she feels you are and if you are any sort of friend to either of them you would respect her feelings and GTFO!!!
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:35am)
BWA HA HA HA HA, it’s never all “innocent”. As soon as someone says, “it’s all innocent” it admits naughty naughty thoughts and acts are at play.
Shakespeare used to use the “it’s all innocent” line in all his great tradegys, it’s true, I read it on the interweb.
My best advice for you is to buy a compound bow and go up to the archery range and fire some arrows at targets, this way you will be out of town most of the time, and if there happens to be a robin hood there, he will fancy a woman drawing a bow. What guy wouldn’t?
Cheerio.
Dr. Opkick.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:38am)
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:45am)
That’s the best advice ever, Doc!
Archery is a great sport for any gender or age, but we could use a few more hot, single ladies.
However, I’d recommend she start with a recurve. Look up the Australian Bowhunters Association. Don’t let the ‘hunter’ part put you off; we don’t all hunt.
RE OP, I’d back it off a little. The missus sounds unreasonable, manipulative and controlling, looking for some drama and you’re ‘it’. So just keep your head down until she finds something or someone else to blame for her failing marriage. Stay in touch with your friend until the inevitable divorce, then you can talk sport pillow-talk all you like with a clear conscience.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (02:13pm)
Definately need to back off, keep out of it & only spend time with the two of them, if its effecting the marriage then its affecting the marriage & it could be for not other reason than simple female jealousy & perception of the frienship being more than it is, thats women (Well not just women, men can be jealous dicks too).
These guys are right tho, you should totally give archery a try, heaps of fun, the people are cool, varied & interesting. I gave it a go & got addicted, I don’t need a girl, already got one but it is a sport that could use more single ladies for those Robin hoods of the single disposition....
I agree with the good Mistress Bossy,
Lessen one-on-one time with the husband and spend more time with the wife doing girly stuff (be it pillow fights or doing each other’s hair; what actually happens is kind of an unknown for us fella’s). Above all else you need to be aware of how your rendevous is being construed so take that into account first, maybe also ask yourself if the husband is lying to the wife about where it is, just putting it out there…
Good luck
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:48am)
Come on luv, what is it you don’t get?
Jealousy, although a very ugly emotion is completely normal.
And in your situation, I get where the wife is coming from. Im not excusing it, but unless you are a fundamentalist Mormon, for most women a normal response is being a little pissed when your husband covets an exclusive frienship with another.
My old flatmate (male) and I were best mates. In all seriousness. When I met my husband, they became good mates as well to the extent that my old flatmate was my husbands groomsman at our wedding but unfortunately we are no longer friends actually because his wife can’t handle our friendship. Im happily married FFS! But no, she cannot accept it.
As much as it pisses me off that we all can’t just get along, I kind of understand her insecurity though I don’t condone it.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:49am)
Only a woman could say something so patently ridiculous.*
Finding a woman who likes sport is like winning the lottery. You can take her down the pub with your mates, talk about all the important things during the week (team changes, injuries etc) AND you can have sex with them.
It’s every man’s dream come true.
*OK you may have a point if the sport in question is something gay like cycling or gymnastics or AFL.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (08:52am)
Dear Unsure ...
your pure intentions are not reason to continue to make the wife uncomfortable. It is the wife’s emotional space.
To use an analogy, a visitor may be completely innocent of wanting to steal my spoons. But if I ask them to leave my home because I am uncomfortable, they are obliged to do so because it is my space.
Your friendship may be as pure as the driven snow, but it is the wife’s decision that you pay her husband less intention, not yours.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:00am)
Yep, I agree with the above. Step back. Hang with the wife more. No matter how innocent you think it is, love makes us all a bit crazy.
Find someone else to talk about sport with.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:02am)
So you have already discussed this with him behind her back? I see, and he thinks you should just keep talking to him regardless. I can just imagine how innocent that particular conversation must have been. Also I would be willing to bet good money that it wasn’t him that brought up the matter… You, my dear, are a troublemaker.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:13am)
Mon 02 Aug 10 (03:21pm)
Spot on aunty22!
The fact that he is telling you what should be very personal and private thoughts shared from a wife to a husband says it all!
Back off, you very well know that what you are doing is wrong.
Wed 04 Aug 10 (06:20am)
Agreed. It all might seem like fun and innocent but I think you’re enjoying the chase right now. I think there’s some tension there that will one day boil over and one of you is going to want to play “just the tip, just for a second, just to see how it feels” and it’s going to end awfully. He’s betrayed his wife enough as it is by telling you their confidential convo. Sure, connecting with people can be very hard, good friends are not that easy to find… but I’m sure you could find a nice single boy to talk about sports with. Take care of yourself, stop this all before anyone gets hurt - shoot through now.
She has a good point OP. The fact he is discussing this with you behind his wife’s back is not helpful.
Kate de Brito
Mon 02 Aug 10 (10:47am)
You’re never gonna win this one.
He will come out smelling roses, you will be the cheap tart making eyes at her husband.
Just walk before the general vilification begins, there are plenty more people out there to discuss gumboot tossing with.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:13am)
Mon 02 Aug 10 (11:44am)
Yeah bro. You from Taihape too are you cuz?? Sweet As!!!
Tue 03 Aug 10 (06:46pm)
...Christchurch
What an interesting question! Young lady, I would need more details about your friendship with this couple, before advising you of what to do.
For example, are you meeting this man for clandestine lunches - just the two of you? Do you make a bee-line for him at parties and occupy his attention for hours? If so, your behaviour is inappropriate, and you must respect his wife’s feelings and cease being friends with this man.
However, if you are showing no particular interest in this man, and are chatting to him and his wife in equal measures, in a public space, then I fear his wife is being unreasonable and silly. In the long run, by restricting her husband’s genuine friendships, she will only make him unhappy.
That said, there are ways you can allay her fears (irrational or not). For the time being, it would be best to only socialise with the wife, or socialise with them both as a couple. You could also invent a love interest! Pretend that you are keen on being courted by another man, and perhaps the wife will realise that you have no romantic interest in her husband.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:15am)
I think the wife is politely saying fuck off, he is mine!!! simple!
why is talking to a married man so important that you need to write to Bossy anyway??
I reckon you are probably better looking than his wife (cause you play sport) and his missus hates sport, plus he wants to shag you...oh and he probably wants his wife to be a bit insecure, hence why he told you to ignore her and keep going…
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:17am)
Mon 02 Aug 10 (11:27am)
Depends how good a friend you are with the wife.
If she’s one of YOUR good friends, then you wouldn’t be being a good friend by constantly flirting (yes, you are) with her husband.
However, in situations such as people meeting at work, where one party is married (i.e. the spouse is never seen), then it really is the married person’s responsibility to stop any flirting, innuendo or even an affair.
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:17am)
Are you kidding me? How old are you? - no matter how sad it seems - single women/men and attached men/women can’t be friends unless the friendship was already established before they got together with their partner - it’s that simple - of course a partner is going to feel worried when they don’t feel included - get to know the wife too and spend time with them together - or like you said - run for the hills - who needs the drama?
Mon 02 Aug 10 (09:36am)