The boobs look fake!

In my experience, not ALL the female officers I know would object to seeing her giggle around, but further details are not suitable for here…

Yes, the politically correct do prevent pilots applying nose art these days because as they are dropping Napalm and Cluster Bombs, drawings of women on their planes is considered offensive to our sense of humanity… in any event, that’s an Air Force issue and we are talking about the military, not public servants.

“over sexed”, why not just keep with you theme about stupid, evil soldiers and just call them all rapists? Its no more offensive than the other tags Andrea has used about the ADF.

Last I checked, and I stand to be corrected, in Afgahnistan at least and I assume it is the same in Iraq looking at the force type and mission, less than 5% of our soldiers there are females, so Krystal is probably an appropriate crowd pleaser.

The ADF is a gender neutral organisation and I know from first hand observation that, that policy is enforced at all levels. Pay and benefits are gender neutral, there is no distinction on gender there. Promotion is generally merit based, not always as in any organisation, but what I can say is physical standards are lower for female soldiers to meet in order to maintain their readiness status and hence to be considered for promotion.

Mac, yes there are more men than women in our Army, but the gap is a lot smaller than one may first think. Its simple maths here from a military thinking point of view, we only have 21 million people, so we cant realistically afford to reject over half of them straight out if we are to provide any kind of real military defence. Women can and do serve in all corps except for three mandated by the Law makers, Armour, Infantry and Artillery. In my Corps, Signals, women are in the (slim) majority.

You know Andrea, the Army runs weekend intro courses for employers to give them a taste of military life and training for those who employ reservists. As an educated, respected blogger on the news network, instead of guessing as you say, why dont you do a weekend course up at Pucka and then you can make an authoritive and informed position? Its only 48 hours and you dont have to go over the obstacle course if you dont want to. The only danger is you may learn something.

Rather stick pins in your eyes? Who cares, you already have them closed when it comes to the military.

Jealous and biased, whats your problem with our troops oppossing muslim extremmists anyway? If we left Iraq and Afgahnistan as you want, may I ask:

What would happen to the people, particularly the women there?

Do you reckon Terrorists would just stop?

How many more people have to die in terrorist attacks before it becomes legitimate in your eyes to do use force to stop them?

Whats your alternative?

"But which came first? The terror or the war?” - Andrea

... I must be at some level underestimating your sense of humour or way overestimating your knowledge of the world…

Er, how about 9/11, the African Embassy Bombings, the USS Cole attack, the Bojinka plot to down airliners over the pacific, the first WTC bombing, the Millenium Plot to detonate a huge bomb in Times Central Square on the 200 NYE, the shooting of 312 children in Beslan, the Moscow Theatre seige, weekly suicide bombings on Israeli civilians, the Rome and Vienna airport bombings, the Berlin Discotecque bombing, the downing of Pan AM 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland with a suitcase bomb, the Munich Olympic Massacre, the assassination of Anwar Sadat, the highjacking of the cruise liner Achillie Lauro where muslim terrorists stabbed and threw an old man in a wheelchair, Leon Klinghoffer, into the ocean, and about 5000 other acts of Islamic Terrorism leading to death and misery in the 25 years BEFORE we overthrew the Taliban?
Closer to home, the Sari Club Bali Bombing was BEFORE Iraq, along with attempted and actual bombings against western hotels in Jakarta, KL and Singapore…

I mean is that a serious question? Which came first, terrorism or our war in the middle east? What freakin planet have you been on?

“You can’t tell me these so called extremists aren’t an ugly reaction to bad Bush foreign policy.” - Andrea
So, you are saying all those school children in Beslan deserved what they got hey because if you dont like Bush then you have the justification to target innocent civilians? If I dont like Rudd, does this mean I can go out and shoot a whole bunch of Argentinians or something to satisfy my displeasure?

Cutting the throats of pilots and flight attendants, barracading yourself into the cockpit and flying your plane into a building full of people and in so murdering over 2000 people… you call that “so-called” extremmism? Gee Andrea, how many more thousands do you have to murder in a suicide attack before you call it unqualified extremmism?

And you still seem to have ducked ANY viable alternative ideas.

I dunno, maybe… at least it would get your boyfriend to put down his playstation and pay some attention to you.

The boyfriend’s FAKE Sherro! If the boyfriend was real Princess wouldn’t have such an overwhelming need to put down the superior physical features of others now would she.

That’s right you wouldn’t! I have argued with feminist who are very successful in the mating game and with feminist who couldn’t get laid if they were lying naked in a prison courtyard.

Almost invariably the issues raised by the successful ones are to do with society and the issues raised by the unsuccessful ones are to do with sexuality. They’re wrong on all counts.

P.S the “objectification of women” is a nonsense term devised as a blanket statement to use against male sexuality for the purpose of gaining political advantage and soliciting funding. There is no such thing as “the objectification of women”.

It would be just as easy to place blanket derogatory terms on female mate selection techniques. A woman’s “testing” and her demands of certain “treatment” as well as the need to be “seduced” can all be deemed the subjugation of men under the same premise of not being free to express individuality not having the right to emotions such as shyness or anxiety and being told that your own sexuality is so below that of the other genders that you must pay or compensate a female you wish to share it with, and further it is of so little value that she may even accept this compensation and still reject you sexually, she may even start with the intent of soliciting this compensation with no intention of ever reciprocating and any question of the morality of this is deemed a social outrage and you are branded an evil oppressive male. But that too would be creating a false doctrine for political gain. Fact is neither gender considers morality or ethics in mate selection; mate selection is based solely on the primary needs of the one doing the selecting. Men choose women who are the most sexual because what they want most from women is sex. And woman choose men with the highest social status because women what to climb the social hierarchy, women have a second need from men which is provision, after they have climbed the social structure they often find them selves in need of assets and thus change priority to “a good provider”. There are some men out their who get confused because they think this a primary not a secondary consideration, there is also some upset among men because when asked about this women lie to make themselves look good and so men set about becoming good providers at great cost to themselves and their life only to find that the women reject them but tell them the may get some leftovers for all their hard work when women have finished climbing the social ladder and want to take their money. Our mate selecting techniques are not wrong, they are devoid of things like morality and some other concepts it would be nice to add, but they are not wrong, so this “objectification” crap is just another political stunt by those who really aren’t in a position to throw stones.

If they need escapism why did they join the army in the first place? Last time I checked it wasn’t compulsorary and they knew what they were getting into.

Too true missy but everyone needs a break. A doctor who saves lives and loses patients can’t be at it all day. Newspaper journos can’t writeand analyse all day without a break. The army is one of the most stressful and dangerous jobs around. No matter how prepared you think you are nothing could possibly prepare you for war. WThe soldiers do need time off for their psychological well being. If you object to the entertainment fine but common sense tells me they do need relief in one form of another. The issue of what they signed up in Iraq for is fine to raise but this is not about whether or not they should or shouldn’t be in Iraq. If Australian soldiers were fighting in Tasmania defending against a New Zealand invasion and the entertainment offered was a lecture from the head of the treasury would there still be complaints?

I think Rudd knows a few good places they can go to…

On the other hand, that rocket scientist and community leader, Ben Cousins, seems to have some of you licking the screen with shots of him with his top off… guess UP bloggers are just as discerning.

15 all…

Licking Ben Cousins? I sure as hell wasn’t one one them! I just think the fact that they would have someone as bland and tacky as Krystal as their number one idea of entertainment simply proves that they are all rednecks and bogans as many of us have always thought.

So admiring someone else’s boobs (and I think thats the problem) oppresses you more than circumcision oppressed say Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Wow! You martyr. Again with Hirsi Ali: She is under 24 hr guard just for speaking her mind. Same with Rushdie. Whats your problem again? Someone has nice boobs and she is flaunting them. So what and get over it.
On one hand you down play the tyranny of Islam as its practiced and then excuse it by saying “not all Muslims are like that anyway”. On the other hand we have a woman who doesn’t live behind a veil and you want her and all other women to cover up. And you think that the West (all of it) is becoming like the middle ages. Something you simultaneously warn against and hope for!
You need coke bottle glasses to correct your perceptions. BTW how are Ben Cousins’ abs going Ms double standards?
BTW (x2) hubba hubba.

We’re all making the same point Andrea. Whats your beef? Theres nothing to be upset about here except your dbl stds. Men like looking at attractive women. The reverse is true. No one else is upset about that why should you be?
Some people are blessed with brains, others with sporting or artistic talent. Great beauty is also a gift. Why should beautiful people be forced to hide their gift? You’d be mortified if a scholar was intimidated into hiding his/her gift; whats the difference here?
BTW hubba hubba

Since you call our male troops evil, ignorant apes and attack a young woman calling her a bimbo, in fact, you seemed to unleash at everyone, what kind of reaction were you expecting from bloggers?

If you feel under attack, maybe dont start it next time? Or if you do, dont whine when you get a reaction.

Let me tell you from experience that after spending any time in the bush in th ecompany of blokes.

Anyone with the curves in the right places looks attractive for the first few days back in civilisation.

Krystal dressing like that and dancing for our troops is something they’d appreciate and applaud.

Krystal dressing like that and stepping out in the company of the people our troops are oppossing would see her publicly beaten to death for immodesty.

As to who has the more anti woman value system, feel free to form your own opinion.

Contradictorally Adam, Andrea effectively wants to “veil” women like Krystal. Then she complains about a return to the dark ages. See what happens when jealousy overtakes reason as your advisor?

Agreed but that’s why I said the comparison with islam was inconsistent. Andrea wasn’t arguing that women in the middle east weren’t in the dark ages she was arguing that exact point but then tried to tie it in with Australian women’s rights.The point is inconsistent. Laws exist here to prevent that and women here have choices were Islamic women don’t. But if Andrea disagrees with those choices or what men find attractive , bad luck as no law is ever going to change that.

When you say things like the days when girls flashing their assets to boogie woogie bugle boys are over. Plainly they’re not and never will be. You just wish they were. I’ll repeat again that when you want to stop a person exploiting their gifts you are placing a veil over them: Whether you try to stop someone’s scholarly ambitions (which did once happen to women) or showing their assets.
BTW did I mention hubba hubba.
(Its been quiet without us hasn’t it Andrea)

Beauty may be a gift yes Mike, but brains? No thats something you have to work on. I may have been a model when I was younger, but I certainly didn’t rely on it as a career. I went to uni, travelled and worked my arse off. That why women like Kyrstal piss me off, women like her are the reason that people assume that because I’m built like a model I can’t offer anything other than my looks. You as men simply cannot understand it. Krystal may deep down have a brain under all that make up but she chooses not to use it. I know so many girls like that you know what they grow up to be?- Gold diggers. Yes, the very women all of you claim to hate so much. Any woman who relies soley on her looks needs to bag a rich husband to pay for the up keep. In the words of Dolly it costs a lot to look so cheap.

Women like Krystal take what liberation we have in the west and squalor it. She is famous for having fake tits. She is a complete idiot (I’ve met her unfortunately). She could have been Australia’s first female prime minister instead her claim to fame is going to be making horny soldiers soil themselves at the site of her. God her parents must be proud. Yes Krystal should cover up- just because Western women have the choice to dress like prostitutes doesn’t mean we should.

Stopped soiling yourself over Ben Cousins yet?

It is not an attack on muslims specifically but some of their ideas. I’ve worked with muslims before and found them to be good people too so it is stupid to say that by questioning some muslim beliefs I advocate bashing or spitting on anyone. The point is that if I said I think gays should be put to death or the hands of theives are fair game then I would rightly be scrutinised from pillar to post. Why then can some Religions come up with these stupid claims and escape scrutiny. Your final argument of culture is true but I believe individuals rights must trump these. For example it is considered tradition to have arranged marriage in some cultures no matter what the bride or groom thinks. While some go on about how it is great to keep cultural traditions alive they are not the ones paying the price for this it is those that are coerced into it that do. If you want to follow religion, wear a veil, have an arranged marriage etc go for it but it must be a choice not a custom enshrined in any law.
PS I realise this isn’t common in Australia. I am referring more to countries that don’t seperate church and state.

Im not anti Muslim, I couldnt care less if you pray with your bum in the air 5 times a day or not, good on em I say. Im more anti kidnapping people like journalist David Pearl, forcing him onto his knees and then videoing some guy hacking his head off to giggly chants of “Allah Akbar”. Why am I wrong for opposing that Missy?

Im sure there were millions of fine Germans and Austrians too during 1939-45, by your logic of it being only a few bad eggs, Churchill and Roosevelt should have just shrugged and let the Gas Chambers keep running because it was only a minority who were bad Nazis.

Andreas wimped it, so I’ll ask you,

Do you believe Terrorists would just stop if we left the middle east?

How many terrorist attacks and deaths are OK to ignore?

When you want us to leave Iraq, exactly which group of Iraqis are you supporting with that call?

What kind of Iraq and Afgahnistan would you like to see in 5 years from now and what role do you see for women in those countries?

Whats your alternative plan to end terrorism?

I think that we have to put terroism in perspective. More people die daily of Malaria than terrorists attacks. Don’t get me wrong a life is a life but I hate the way the west has come bounding in to counter act terrorism when it will ignore issues which we could easily eradicate. America enters a war they cannot “win” instead of weighing in on drug companies to distribute cheaper drugs in third world countries. The only way to stop terroism is dialogue between the two parties- thats is the only thing that has ever worked not a foriegn invasion. The war in El Salvador was officially “won” by the US backed army but now the country has more problems than it ever did. The same with Nicaragua. I know so many Iraquis who were living happy lives before the war and have now lost everything. Look at how Northern Irealnd was a few years ago compared to now- Dialogue and compromise is the only way to end terrorism not more deaths. I mean honestly Sherro- if an American troop killed your son wouldn’t you want payback? It is a vicious cycle that will not stop.
As for the position women will hold in the middle east it will depend on how the countries affected can repair themselves. Most Islamic countries that are reasonably wealthy ( as in the general population, not a handfull of people) have allowed western values to start seeping through. The important thing to remember is that is a country that is poor and destroyed no one can succeed.

Good arguement Missy, lets apply it further:

I think that we have to put (domestic viloence against women) in perspective. More people die daily of (Diabeties) than (domestic violence against women). Don’t get me wrong a life is a life but I hate the way the west has come bounding in to counter act (domestic violence against women) when it will ignore issues which we could easily eradicate. Australia enters a war they cannot “win” instead of weighing in on drug companies to distribute cheaper drugs in third world countries.”

OK, cool. Give us your positioning perspective, how many people have to die from Malaria before its OK to ignore terrorists firebombing a bunch of 8 year children in a Beslan School? How far do we need to reduce Diabeties in this country before stopping people building and detonating truck bombs at Bali niteclubs attracts our attention and action?

2.7 million malarial deaths per year. Malaris is a TREATABLE disease.

1,220,580 dead since the beginning of the Iraqi war. An unprovoked war. Imagine if the west had put that much money and effort into saving that many lives from Malaria which is the biggest killer in the world today.

What I’m saying is Terrorism is horrible but it is not the biggest killer in the world- a treatable disease is. The west is trying to combat terrorism at the expense of all the other people who need our help. America has admitted they don’t have enough troops to send to Sudan because they are all in Iraq.

Sherro you and I both put a huge value on the freedom and human life. I do not for one second think a death from terrorism is worth more or less than a death from Malaria, AIDS or anything else for that matter. What I am saying is that killing more people won’t help anything. The military is treating Iraqi life ( and the lives of their own soldiers)as some sort of expendable currency. It is disgusting. I saw a report where a school had been completely annhialated by American bullets and 30 Iraqi children were killed. No one in their right mind can say that is helping anyone. I wish that people like you and I could have an answer to end terrorism- but if it was so simple to solve we wouldn’t need to have this discussion. I don’t want to see more pointless suffering in this world- thats what I was getting to with the Malaria point- enough people die each day for no reason the west has got to stop adding to that death toll.

I understand your point Missy, but events dont occur in a vacumne and facts dont live in isolation. Malaria is a big killer, so is no access to clean drinking water and quite a few other preventable diseases. But Malaria isnt a big killer in the US and we cant expect them to see over 2000 people murdered on their soil in 9/11, with a promise of many more to follow and announce instead an increase in quinine production as a response. The first duty of a Government is to ensure the saftey, freedom and protection of its own citizens who elected them. If 2000 people were killed here in a terrorist attack wouldnt we hold an expectation that our leadership, Labor, Liberal or whatever, takes measures to ensure the perpertrators are brought to justice and that changes are put in place to prevent further terrorist attacks?

You cant win with the lefties being the US, if they send troops into another country they are wrong and its their fault, if they dont send troops into places like Sudan, then they are wrong and its their fault.

The US is the largest contributor of world aid as it is, I note on point that the largest number of people killed by Malaria are Islamic, one could just as well ask what the megarich oil nations of the Middle East are doing donating to fund Palestinian unrest, giving US$10,000 to the families of ever suicide bomber as Saddam did and supplying money, training and arms to Al-Qaeda, other terrorist groups and insurgents as Iran, Afgahnistan, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Sudan and Algeria did/does? Why arent the people funding terrorism under the spotlight so much as those fighting it for what they could be doing instead to end world diseases?

I’m sure the US, Britain and Australia would love to get out of the Middle East, if the terrorists would just stop killing people, then we could, but if we leave now, do you honestly believe terrorists will just give up?

Ah but how do you choose what is right and wrong. I agree that been leared at and have sexist comments called out at you is dehumanising but isn’t that more related to the person you are trying it with. But there is a difference between been leared at and someone appreciating your body. Say a stripper performs at a bucks night and afterwards a guy compliments her on her body and mentions something like what a great dancershe is and how much he appreciated the performance and the next bloke calls her a slag. Has she dehumanised herself or has the second bloke? I now she has set herself up to be perved on so to speak but that doesn’t mean she disrespected herself it is others who do that.

Adam, I wasn’t adressing you, I ‘ve just read what you replied. This blog has had an undercurrent for a few threads of a debate about Islam from other bloggers. I have stayed quiet but it drives me nuts when people who don’t understand the religion comdemn everyone as being extremists.The fact is that although it is great that the world has finally opened it’s eyes to the atrocities carried out in the name of religion, the middle east is not the only place women are treated like dirt. People like you and I who can clearly see the difference between the average person of Islamic faith and the monsters who commit crimes against humanity are actually pretty rare.

"Sherro, but you are not a Muslim woman living in oppression so I don’t think you can speak for them.”

You’ve never served a day for this country in the military, none of which has stopped you here and in pervious posts sweeping in with a big brother attitude telling the military how to live their lives, has it?

You havent made distinctions about our soldiers, you call them all oafish apes, oversexed, evil and stupid, as you are not a soldier I dont think you can speak for them.

You’re quite happy to abuse our troops and anyone who supports them, but when it comes to the people they are fighting against, terrorists with homophobic, mysoginistic, totalitarian and murderous intent, you duck and weave on critiquing them. If a person decides to join the Army, they are stupid and ignorant in your book, but if a person decides to kidnap and execute a person in the name of Allah, you go all quiet like a contrite little girl.

I was taken out of context! I was taken out of context!

(Smirk) - Yeah just like that other Muslim-Feminist the Meat Mufti eh?

But thanks for correcting me Andrea, for some really stupid reason when I read your post here about Krystal and your follow on comments I erroneously concluded you were being critical of our soldiers and people like Krystal who support them.

How dumb am I to interperate,
“some silicone chested bimbette” and
“Stick to what you are good at Krystal, ahhhh.... ummm....oh I’m sure your management will think of something”
as criticism.

I see now, you are a great supporter of our (evil, oversexed, naive) troops and supporters like Krystal. My bad, what was I thinking?

Its getting harder and harder for me to put words in your mouth with both your feet in there already.